Himelander Mafia Thread (Over! Scum Win!)

[El Cideon]

Uuuuuhhh.

You're saying this in a game where the reason you most want to be in the lynching line is if you're scum.

Seriously, Cid?

Yes, seriously. I know exactly how this sounds, which is why I hesitated to bring it up, but I believe the results of such a duel would be sufficiently enlightening to make that a worthwhile risk. Again, this hinges somewhat on today's challenge flipping TownKilga/ScumTom (as TownTom would throw my theories off pretty badly) but I'm pretty confident that'll be the case. Asking to be pitted against whoever's deemed scummier of today's winners (which in my opinion is Ciato, again assuming that Tom flips scum). I haven't seen much suspicion directed towards me, and a couple people put forth supportive reads (Kilga included). If there is some trust out there, I'm asking that you act on it and indulge me in a minor experiment. If it fails, you have the obvious recourse of challenging and lynching me the next day, which I couldn't rightly fight since I knew it was a risk in suggesting this in the first place (though I would argue like hell to make sure someone I thought was town did the job, in that case).

I mention this now mostly just in case day three gets rolling while I'm at work tomorrow or something and I come home to find the day's challenge is already agreed upon, at which time my making the request would be disruptive. Things are fairly slow right now while we wait on Tom (if he's going to say anything at all) so it seemed like a reasonable time to suggest it.

...And six more responses. Jesus you people talk a lot. So much for that "things are fairly slow" line. Going to read last 6-7 responses, come back with more responses if necessary.

[Bardiche]

I got plenty of maidhood in my last game over there.

Anyway, to confirm the message was sent by me, I sent it in the form of a letter, ending with a PS akin to "I don't like dying as a sacrificial scapegoat to someone's whims" with a plea to let me live. Didn't save the exact message, 'nfortunately, but I expressed something regarding an idea of yours and requested tea. I even used honorifics.

This is why I felt it was fairly pointless to elaborate on my power but hell if there's no NK or whatever anyway, how do, have my complete and undiluted response as to "what happened after the duel": I got another use of this power and can send someone a completely anonymous message.

[Bardiche]

PS: If someone's going to act as I feared and analyse the implications of my power I am going to bang my head into a wall.

[El Cideon]

Veeeeerrrry interested to hear Cid's reason now.  It's all but certain to me (and most other people, at a glance) at this point that today's flips will be Tom scum Kilga town, can you talk about why you aren't sure or why this matters to whatever you have to disclose?

Oh, I'm pretty sure that's exactly the flip we'll see. I made my opinion on Tom known a while ago. It matters because I want to catch scum tomorrow and I highly suspect that Ciato will turn out to be such as long as Tom is.

[Chaore]

Simply put. Everyone else seemed to at that point to say 'OH MAN THAT ALEX IS PRETTY TOWN'.

I really do not like Alex. I understand the gaming is somewhat important, but when you do that and do no actual scum hunting (Even in his SUGGESTION POST no less...), Something is VERY VERY wrong. As much as Ciato vs. Alex makes sense, I had the bad feeling Alex would come on top of it if he IS scum.

I wasn't convinced of it for obvious reasons, I'd probably get my ass straight out lynched and give Scum a kill. I was however, heavily considering it to avoid the possibility of a scum head.

Essentially, the same reason we're considering townie offing Alex or Ciato. Just far more me-centric and with equal chance for me to get lynched. Probably more given 'How dare you break our schedule DIE'.

Ninja: Probably because there is an off chance he may have something usefull to say, Alex.

Haven't we said this?

Double Ninja: I'd be hypocritical for the above reasons if I didn't say it makes a bit of sense.

[UncertainJakutten]

So then...a reread. Yes, I think I'm in the proper state of mind for that now.

Rou is town. Yes, I'm concluding this from the first page. There's nothing else to draw from that page.

I don't understand Kiro's post. I can read the words, but they don't gel to me with what Serp said. I could be misreading/misunderstanding.

Bard's first post adds nothing to the game.

this from Rou is actually the first thought I had during this reread catching the gamebreaking parts. I couldn't immediately come up with any incredible disadvantages, and it would allow us to keep a count of how many scum wins have been attained. It's not foolproof though.

Lots of BardxPesco yaoi fluff on page 2. I still don't like the "sit down and drink tea" tone.

If...

AH fuck it, we all know it's when.

When Tom flips scum, this post makes me lean even more strongly for Bard scum.

The subtle "I'm town yay!" here bothers me.

Before you go gently into that good night, Kilga, can you tell me if that's meta for him?

Oh, Kilga gives it already here:

I can see where Pesco's coming from on calling out Bard's first post, it reminds me of his Day 1 play when he was scum with Ciato in that Laggy game a while ago. There's no real "mindhax" to be applied, logic dictates the post is quite reportery. I do give slight pause because I know Bard tends to play like this regardless of alignment but not a whole lot.

That doesn't do a whole lot of good.

Rou's still town on page 3.

Hi Ciato! Way to not take a stance and make a useless first post. I'm noticing a trend here.

Oh, wait, you attack Town Rou. Good job.

Ok...This post from Serp is relatively pro-town. Yet it bugs me...a lot.

AH! This is why:

At the moment, I'm favoring Rou to kill Pesco if Bardiche flips town, if only for the dramatic value.

It feels like lining up lynches. We know Pesco is town. However...for Serp to be scum he'd have to know Bard is town.

At this time, I am ruling out Serpentarius being scum with Bardiche. If one is scum, the other isn't.

This post from Kefit has a lot of numbers but little scumhunting. Further, for someone who's complaining about town not reading the game rules properly, he sure didn't read the game rules. But yeah, what bugs me most is the blatant IIoA. This might be mitigated if he ever posts actual content.

Pesco pointing this out two posts later makes me giggle.

El Cid and Alex feel fine for their first posts

Pesco looks completely suicidal. Bardiche, however, seems to be putting up a facade of 'tactics are key'. They're the complete opposite, good for trying to think up 'Which is scummier, tactics or jumping into things?'.

False Dichotomy. I already don't like you with one paragraph.
The rest of the post does not alleviate this. It's jumping around the line of Pesco and Bardiche, going one way then another, finally settling on "well, I'd...like Bard's lynch...maybe"

And then no vote.

this is a reason Cid is liklier to be town.

Thank you, Bard, for three paragraphs of confusion where you could say "There is no case against me. What am I to defend against?"

Can I get a meta read there, Kilga?

The rest of this post makes me conflicted. It feels like he's nitpicking into the arguments I made against CHAOS but...it feels off. I think that's probably because Bard's posts thus far have biased me against him as being town. But how that factors into a CHAOS/Bard scumpair bothers me, because I'm not sure if this is bussing or just attacking a weak townie :S.

This is why we shouldn't actually clear Cid despite me saying he was town a minute ago. We get it. You are "Meta Sucks Guy Rawr >=[". Can we have some scumhunting please?

We all know how the fight between me and Bard went. His posts are still as bad as I found them before.

Despite me saying that, this stands out. Specifically:

Now then, to fall into "reporter" sty-- no, nevermind. I think you're all suitably able to look at Pesco's course of action, and I believe I highlighted earlier someone who admitted that "rushing into duels everytime will just get them lynched".

This post from CHAOS has me going "wat?" Most notable is the lack of commitment, though.

Oh hey, another useless Kefit Post

Why is Bard town? What do you think of the other players? Are you even playing this game or are you just playing with numbers?

CHAOS' next two three posts are so contentless I don't even feel motivated to link them. They...they're on page 5. Look at your brain cells dying as they starve, trying to absorb information that doesn't exist.

Rou is still town. I don't like what he's SAYING, but he's basically playing town Rou to a T

K4Us first post seems alright.

How do you mean This, Chaos? Further, were you planning to vote soon? You can only be non committal for so long.

Oh, hi again Ciato. There are 3 pages of content between your posts. Have anything to contribute besides questioning CHAOS, who apparently can't string his thoughts together?

this from Kiro bugs me for the same reason Ciato's post bugs me. There's a lot more content between posts than you are choosing to comment on.

Jam's first post is the third useless one I've seen so far. The first two were also from people I'm leaning scum on. This does not bode well for her.

So, CHAOS explains what I asked earlier, pointing how he was basically engaging in IIoA and had no real thoughts on who's scum.

Why do you do this to us?

Alice's first post at least is relatively rife with original content.

Hi Kiro...whatever happened to analysis? Are you still in set up breaking mode when we have about 6 pages of content? Well of course you are. Set up mode is safe. You don't have to commit to any embarrassing D1 positions.

Not sure how to read this from K4U. I guess what stands out to me is how vague she is about what makes Bard look town with the "good outweighing the bad". It's easy to make vague claims. Backing them up is what makes it harder to defend a scumbuddy.

this makes Cid look bad. Kiro did point out something very useful. Scum want to discredit people from finding a townie "confirmed".

What is Cid doing here?

The soft push here to make Bard look town when Pesco flips town bothers me immensely.

Once again, Why is Bard town, Jam?

This Ciato post leaves me conflicted. It votes against who I'd pair her with, but on the other hand, it's absolutely hypocritical. She hasn't read a player the whole game, including that post. Well, that's not quite true. She SORTA tries to read Pesco :S

Alex's PESCO MUST DIE attitude bugs me, but actually makes me feels he's more likely town. I don't think it HELPS the town to be like that, but I don't think he's manipulating it as scum.

Again, 7 pages of content, Serp. Why is there only one paragraph on other players that's not a rehash of what's already been said? Oh, and why isn't it any players other than Bard and Pesco? And not even a committed read at that?

This...feels like Kiro doing something he said would be scummy involving discreditation. I also don't feel he actually believes what he's proposing about Pesco's strategy being viable for both town and scum.

CHAOS chimes in again with nothing useful.

I am happy to see Alex had at least 3 out of 4 reads matching mine. Why is Kefit pro town in his two posts of no analysis?

And yeah, Tom is still obvscum.

Rou tells us only a little bit new, but it's good new.

Hi Bard. Do you remember how to post content or does this concept escape you?

Kiro's and Serp's posts don't contribute much not already said, but at least they've...

Wait, Serp hadn't posted for a long time either. Serp looks about as bad as Bard. Given Kiro's previous "content", I'm also not really in favor of the "so this is what Rou said in WoT form" post, even if it was a cut.

CHAOS STILL REMAINS NON COMMITTED!

I'm REALLY leaning CHAOS scum at this point.

Also, since it seems most people are more like "lol Alex Ciato vote" without any more analysis of the past day...it's not as much of a scumtell I guess :S.

this is unhelpful from Serp. But, I might as well admit at this point I feel townie INTENT, but no real follow through. I don't think Serp is scum.

Ciato's "Alex is scum" justification bothers me. I guess it's the fact that it's only one point with two paragraphs behind it.

More CHAOS non commitedness.

To reanswer Kilga's question...let me be clear at this point

Kiro, Bard, CHAOS, Ciato, and Tom are the scum team. I know I'm calling this prematurely but they are by far the scummiest players right now. There's a lot of anti town intent I'm feeling. I'm probably LEAST sure on Bard though. The other four are near certainty.

Jam, of course, makes a post that makes me want her in the list I just posted. But I dunno :S

I already commented on Alice's wall of repetition

Bard, you obviously aren't reading

I have no clue what UncertainKitten is trying to accomplish here.

Alice affirmed where she/he/it stands at this moment, attacking over a wall of text that we'd "have to read again" is... well, scratch that, this place has weirder habits.

Anyway, personally I think it's a great idea to let me take out Alex and Ciato next Day(s

That was to ROU, not Alice. As for attacking over a wall of text, it's obfuscating. Sometimes they are a necessary evil though. This post is one of those cases. Alice's is pure repetition.

But, he's not in my scum list because there are, basically, bigger fish to fry.

Hmm...subtle discredit by Jam...

What did this post accomplish, Bard?

So stating my opinion on the current fight today is an Anti-Town action now? Really? The only complaint that is valid there is the Excess Amount of Words, which I will admit is an annoying habit that I need to cut down on, but it is no more intrinsically Anti-Town than your prospensity to start worthless arguments with other people that go on for several pages (see: UK/Bardiche D1. Similar complaint about having to read that over upon every reread applies here. And no, it's not useful for determining alignment, I read the entire thing over in detail and it is 95% back-and-forth juggling of the same couple points over and over). So yeah.

WHAT opinion? You just posted a wall of things that had ALREADY BEEN SAID. That wasn't your opinion, it was everyone else's. But it's moot now, you aren't on the list so PoE says you aren't scum at the moment.

Regarding Roukan: going over his past posts, he seems to miss the one main Scum-Roukan tell I've had for him: namely, regurgitating cases. Beyond that, he hasn't done anything overtly Scummy so far, which gives me a reasonable amount of confidence that he's Town. Still not sure if he's The Right Man For Tomorrow's Job(TM), though.

I disagree. Roukanken is the candidate I propose for steamrolling scum. He's been obvtown since Page 1. You can even have him challenge me at some point so I can get the fuck out of this clusterfuck and also show you I'm not throwing out a scum WIFOM.

This from Serp is the first blatantly anti town post I've seen. And it feels filled with bad intent. ANYONE we propose will have the risk of giving scum a head. So, why would we pick SCUMMIER players? Picking the towniest is LOGICAL. You even point this out! What are you trying to propose?

I'm glazing over page 10. I'm done.

tl;dr
Rou is town
Kiro, Bard, CHAOS, Ciato, and Tom are the scum team.
If Bard is not scum, Jam possibly is. Then again, so could Alice or Serp be. Honestly, I'm at a loss for filling in that hole.
Yes, I am reasonably sure we have 5 scum to prevent town from just killing itself off and STILL winning.
I propose Rou vs. Ciato tomorrow. I then propose Rou steamroll everyone to end game. Preferably starting with those 5 names.
I apologize for the wall, but that is how I do rereads, and in this case the WoT actually contibutes content, to head off hypocrisy accusations.

Warning - while you were typing 20 new replies have been posted. You may wish to review your post.

DEAR FUCKING GOD WHAT THE HELL IS WRONG WITH YOU PEOPLE!?

[El Cideon]

Speaking personally? Utter lack of a social life. Now, however, I have to go to sleep. Stuck around for a while, haven't seen any more responses to me, so I figure things have died down for the night. Personally don't think we'll hear from Tom again, but others seem to be waiting on a response from him so I'm not going to contribute to voting the day to a close at the moment. If day three gets underway well before I can get online again, then I'm noting again for the record that my preferred challenge is myself vs. Ciato. I'm aware this isn't strictly what Kilga had in mind at last report but I think it's worth consideration.

[Kilgamayan]

I've been distracted for the past couple of hours, but that should be ending soon, and I'll be able to catch up and give proper thoughts to the things I've been keeping loose tabs on, like Bard's secrecy but not anymore, Cid's suggestion, Alice's question and oh god UK why did you post something like that I mean seriously I'm very likely to not bother reading all that.

[UncertainJakutten]

I've been distracted for the past couple of hours, but that should be ending soon, and I'll be able to catch up and give proper thoughts to the things I've been keeping loose tabs on, like Bard's secrecy but not anymore, Cid's suggestion, Alice's question and oh god UK why did you post something like that I mean seriously I'm very likely to not bother reading all that.

That's why I have a tl;dr. You can follow my logic in the post, or just assume I have reasoning for my five picks .

[Kilgamayan]

Post incoming, please don't hammer and silence me forever.

[Kefit]

Ok so I guess Pesco was just a raving lunatic. I generally start most games I play like this with a numberz analysis based upon the rule set and the roles in play. It's worked well in the past, but it's certainly not completely reliable, as this game has shown. It doesn't help that I tried to apply numberz to a group of players that I don't know - a fact that's making it incredibly difficult to analyze anything that's happening today. SPEAKING OF TODAY'S EVENTS:

uh

what in the fucking world i don't even know (pretend i didnt use that apostrophe it makes my typing seem uncharacteristically unlazy for the tone i am trying to set with this line but im too lazy to delete it0

My general read right now is that Tom, like Pesco is a raving lunatic townie. This sort of gambit seems way too risky for scum to pull completely out of the blue - it's pretty easy to read the atmosphere in this thread and realize that the player base is going to shit upon any sudden challengers like this. Even if Tom is a raving lunatic scum I can't imagine that he wouldn't have non-raving lunatic scum with him to stop him from doing this.

However, something seems off about Kilga. He called me out for not posting me enough. Seems understandable, right? Except it's like he suddenly forgot about the whole being incredibly busy thing I told him about when he asked me to play this game. He also seems to have forgotten about the way I played in the days of yore - I don't post much, but I usually post quite a bit when I do (for those uninitiated, Kilga and I participated together in a long series of mafia style games many years ago back in the heyday of StEpMaNiA [on a cd]). Also, something seems off about him. I can't really explain what. It's just a feeling I get based on knowing Kilga for years.

However, this is just a hunch. An unfair hunch at that - I only know a few of the people playing this game, and I just happen to know Kilga far better than I know any of the others. It's much easier to form hunches about people you know than it is to get a read on the faceless mass of people referred to by names that don't match their forum usernames.

...of course at this point Kilga's on the train to hell anyway, so what's even the point of saying all this? I'm certainly not placing Kilga and Tom one step closer to the hammer with a vote, since buying more time for people to actually discuss things is A Good Thing.

Honestly, this hunch about Kilga is the only read I have at this point. I have no idea what's going on this game. I've got nothing. In the event that I suddenly have something I'll be sure to post it. But I wouldn't count on this until after we get another alignment flip, which should be valuable information indeed - that is, if we don't have another incident reminiscent of Jim's brief encounter with beautiful foreign exchange student Nadia.

[Ranmilia]

The scum can't nightkill people in this game so there's really no reason to hold back details and say "I have a reason for this but I can't tell you what it is yet."  It's just jerking discussion around, which is not good for town in this setup at all.  Bard and Cid pulling this is at best annoying and indicative of them not thinking things through, unless Cid has some sort of earth shattering role that would be ruinous to reveal but not ruinous to reveal that he has something?  Egh.  Cmon guys.

Not really much else to say.

[Kilgamayan]

Okay.

Bard's role thingamajigger seems to have been cleared up. Didn't hold the temporary secrecy against the guy anyway, not spilling the role beans on the first provocation is correct play to the point of being a null tell similar to voting Not Me over Me. This actually ties in neatly to a little rant I have prepared.

For the love of God, people, stop being setup cocky. Anyone who thinks Rat is naive enough to not cover all of scum's bases needs to be smacked in the face with a crowbar. We have no idea what may come in the future or how scum have been compensated for the lack of a night phase. There are a zillion things that could be out there waiting for us to get complacent before they trip us up. What if scum have some Anonyvigkills, for example? That'd be a pretty effective way to silence townies with power roles or stop a steamroller.

This means several things, most notably that people should stop unnecessarily fishing for roles and, more importantly, stop suggesting Roukan steamroll everyone. I don't trust the guy with the Key to the City and neither should anyone else. Of particular hilarity is Alice's observation that the ScumRoukan tell of case regurgitation is missing given how radically different the case mechanism is for this setup. ScumRoukan doesn't need to regurgitate cases in this sort of setup, since there have only been two relevant targets each day so far. There's also the very real possibility that ScumRoukan's game has improved as it's been forever and a day since we saw it last. There's also the very real possibility that someone with a calmer head than his is feeding him what to post because God knows we have plenty of capable types in this game. There's also the very real possibility that a later day will alter the lynching mechanism even more radically, nullifying the effectiveness of the steamroll strategy. There's also the very real possibility that Roukan will simply drop dead due to scum interference. And on and on and on. I would put money down on Rat having something up his sleeve to prevent a steamroll tactic, if not about seven different things up his sleeve and two more in his right sock, and this is independent of the idea of ScumRoukan playing you for chumps.

Moving on. I do not hold Cid's suggestion against him and, in fact, likely would have nominated him if town decided they wanted to match up one of today's survivors with the towniest-looking townie that ever towned for whatever reason. Serp brings up a good point about, however, about constricting the number of living people with wins under their belts in the interest of constricting valid targets come LYLO. Given all this, I would like to make a slight modification to my scenarios:

1 vs. 1 vs. 1, vote one person to die: Still want Alex/Ciato/(Bard/Chaore) for this.
1 vs. 1 vs. 1, vote one person to live: Change this to Alex/Ciato/$TOWNIE_TYPE_INDIVIDUAL (I'd recommend Cid or possibly Serp for this) and vote $TOWNIE_TYPE_INDIVIDUAL to win that battle. Ideally the Day 4 battle would involve both $TOWNIE_TYPE_INDIVIDUAL and Bard in some fashion.

1 vs. 1 should still be Alex vs. Ciato to keep the number of living victors down and individuals that are not Alex and Ciato need to grow a pair instead of worrying about "what if we make the wrong decision????".

I have no problem with leaving the door open for Tom to post again, as scummy as his day's conduct has been. We lose nothing if we let ScumTom survive for a few more hours, while we lose a bunch if we cut TownTomThatCouldn'tGetMOTKAccess off before he has a chance to show up again. (I raise an eyebrow at Alex for bringing this up in a very backhanded fashion that seems designed to plant seeds of doubt in the minds of others while trying not to look like he's endorsing swift action himself.) However, if the day is still going after I wake up tomorrow, then I will cast a vote for the Alex/Ciato team when I leave for work (roughly 11:15 AM Eastern) and that will serve as my signal that people can go ahead and finish the job. Assuming my vote isn't the hammer anyway.

I will try to slog through FAV's UK's Great Wall of Meiling there, if only out of curiosity for the Kiro conclusion in her tl;dr section. No guarantees I maintain the motivation to go through the whole thing, though.

One of Cid or Bard (or both) needs to get an avatar.

Ninja'd by Kefit: I tend to poke whoever I can when I noticed they haven't posted for a while in Mafia, regardless of their life circumstances. For all that this is worth coming from me.

---

Gender pronoun clarification for everyone, since there are many new faces and I've noticed several people unsure about themselves: UK, K4U, Jam and Ciato are all female. Everyone else is male.

[UncertainJakutten]

I don't accept Rou scum. He just feels Rou town and I can't explain precisely WHY. It's maddening.

I WILL, however, accept Carth doesn't make broken games, and do think that needs to be consider with steamrollery.

In other news, Kefit's last post sucks. "Hurf Durf let's accuse someone on the block, justify last two terrible posts, and then contribute absolutely nothing germane to the situation OR any information on other players besides Kilga"

[Kefit]

I have contributed everything that I have to contribute. If you'd like me to post meaningless rants where I make up reasons to call out people I don't know anything about - a process that is actually quite easy - then just let me know and I'll get right on it.

[UncertainJakutten]

The idea is you are supposed to get an idea of them by reading them. Even if you don't know a person, you can at least try to figure out if their posts are scum motivated or town motivated. Scum and town play intrinsically different, and meta isn't the entire world of mafia (though it helps)

I'll admit I actually like the tone of your last post.

[Kilgamayan]

UK wall skimmed, lots of links to posts I honestly can't be arsed to click on. Suggestion that Kiro has been all-setup-no-content is intriguing enough that I'll investigate it tomorrow morning.

[Kilgamayan]

Also, in the unlikely event of a 2 vs. 1 matchup tomorrow, I nominate Alex/Ciato vs. Cid (or Serp) with Cid/Serp winning, followed by getting Cid/Serp vs. Bard in some capacity on Day 4. First in line to be thrown into the mix as an extra scummy in any scenario (i.e. all of Alex/Ciato/Bard have been used) is Chaore.

[EvilTom]

Sorry guys, haven't had a chance to post between work/sleep/work. Reading through, but it looks like I'm too late to make any sort of difference, having been to L-1 and back. Anyway if you give me a bit of time to catch up then I'll try & respond & explain myself.

[EvilTom]

Right well first of all nyahhh @ Alex for assuming I'd upped and gone. Thanks to those that didn't just hammer, or suggest it in an indirect way.

Second of all, apologies for drastic action. It looked like Alex was about to pair me with Ciato, and I panic-posted.
So, 'Why did I pick Kilga, the least-scummiest person around?' to try and give myself a chance to battle Alex. This obviously backfired horribly.

Why Alex and Ciato? I mentioned this briefly - Alex doing the 'lining up lynches' thing, then rushing into them. Granted I panicked, but whatever. Lining me up against Ciato looked like scumAlex lining me up against scumCiato, intending to have me lose, picking up a head and cred all round for the scumteam. It seemed as if he'd been setting this up for a while.

Anyway I guess it didn't work for Pesco, and it looks like I'm doomed too. I still think Alex is definitely scum, so keep that in mind if it comes down to Alex v Ciato tomorrow. Unfortunately I have no convenient cop claim or whatnot to reveal, so hammer me whenever. Sorry

[Ranmilia]

I apologize for not being direct, then.  Seeing people say "But wow I want to hear from Tom!" irritates me because it implies that they think Tom may have something to say that is worth listening to, which is only true if he is not scum, which means they are not convinced he is scum based on his play to this point, which makes my mind boggle.  Simply expressing some frustration.  I will try to keep a closer lid on it. 

Also since it seems like these ideas are not dead:
- "Have one townie player steamroll victories" does not give town any advantage.  Even if the designated steamroller is in fact town, scum could manipulate discussion so that a bunch of townies are herded to the chopping block, and then claim a cleanup win when scum outnumber town (plus the couple of heads scum are likely to pick up from other methods like today's double challenge.) 

- "Kill all who win against town/victors in general" is a terrible strategy to follow blindly since it makes town vs town duels (which are very likely early in the game) propel scum towards victory even more than they already do.  Not only is the winner of a town vs town condemned to death under this policy, they must be killed by someone else, and the odds of that someone being scum increase.  Chaining victors as a rule is thus a very bad idea, people should be evaluated on their empirical scumminess and "won a duel vs a townie" should not be thought of as an inherent mark of suspicion. 

THAT SAID it is, I think, still generally best to keep having the overall scummiest people duel, and killing victors in that case is not something we should shy away from doing either!


Ninja'd by Tom.  Man, I almost wish he'd made up some crazy fakeclaim now.  It is bunk, here is a quick comical reference why for those who haven't been reading the thread. 

So... anything else?  What are we doing for hammer?

[El Cideon]

Rush posting before work. Not really buying Tom's defense; if he was town and worried about Alex setting something up then he should've talked it out with the whole group since that's what would've happened anyway if he hadn't acted unilaterally.

Also agree that having one player take all victories, no matter what our confidence in them, is not feasible and today should amply illustrate why: if another unorthodox challenge situation arose, scum could conceivably pull another crazy stunt like this to get that person killed anyway.

And, gone. Back in ~9 hours.

[FinnKaenbyou]

I favor putting Alex and Ciato against each other in the next fight.  Using the towniest player to kill one of them gives us the risk that the one killed is town and the one chosen to perform the kill is scum.  That risk may be actually be greater by choosing scummy players to kill each other...

I'm sorry, what? The towniest player is most likely to be scum? This is just plain ridiculous.

In other news, stop depending on me. The reason I didn't call for a one-man-steamroll from the start of the game was because
- it's exploitable by scum
- even if Town is picked, scum might have a role that interferes with it (and if Carth's thought this setup over they probably will)

If Town trusts me enough to execute a suspected scum, fine. But it seems like you don't, so leave it to someone you do trust. I'm not seeing how this is so hard.

[Kilgamayan]

Yeah, I've seen enough. Let me give Kiro one last lookover and then I'll slam my vote down.

[Kilgamayan]

Nah, Kiro looks okay to me, outside of not having posted in 24 hours. He's done a whole bunch of setup talk, sure, but he's also handed down a decent amount of opinions.

I still don't know what call to make on Alex vs. Ciato. Alex's recent posts have been giving me Day 3 Joker* vibes while Ciato has been absent for a while. Neither of these has improved my opinion of them.

If I had to guess at a scum team...Tom, Alex, Bard, Chaore and someone else that's actually in my good graces, because that's usually how these sorts of things play out for me. K4U wouldn't be a bad choice here I guess.

*Reference to recent game where Alex was scum and looked really good until Day 3 rolled up and he started saying all sorts of bizarre things that made me want to vig kill him (so I did).

##Vote: Team Cialex

Concluding with the most important thing ever discussed at any point in this topic. Catch you all on the other side.

[Edible]

Day 2 Battle Update - Alex/Ciato VS Tom/Kilga - L-1 edition!
Alex/Ciato Team (7): Roukanken, Kiro, Serpentarius, Kitten4u, Jam-Kiske, MissCiato, Kilgamayan
Tom/Kilga Team (0):

With 15 alive, it takes 8 votes to win a duel.  Remember that you are voting for the team you want to win.

[Chaore]

Calling for the hammer then? Calling for the hammer.

##Vote AlexCiato

God damn that leaves a horrible taste in my mouth.

[Edible]

BLUDGEON

YOUR WORDS MUST NOT COME FORTH

[Edible]

Kilgamayan, playing Senou Aoi, Ordinary Schoolgirl, was whisked away to the Golden Land, where she might actually matter to the plot in some fashion.

DREAD THOMAS, playing Kuga Natsuki, Scum Hot Biker Chick, hitchhiked with the wrong people and wound up in some very unfortunate doujinshi.

It is now Dawn.  Day 3 will start when the HiME Star (read: Carthrat) makes an appearance.  Feel free to talk, just don't discuss the game (it's too early for you to make coherent statements).

[Kiro]

Shit, can't post what I was going to post before the hammer and I need to sleep.

I'll be away for a bit again as I try to meet up with A-F. I'm also trying to avoid my 20 ringit ($6 hotel room) as much as possible. It is the most ghetto hotel room I've ever seen. It has the 4 things I need the most in a room: bed, light, fan, and lock, but everything except the fan is of dubious quality. The wallpaper and floor are literally falling apart and there is a sink by the head of the bed that I do not dare touch as the drain has been covered up by crumpled newspaper. The bathroom on the floor is shared, but I haven't gone in it because it was a fucking single bathroom and someone was in it taking a shower so I had to go piss in a ditch outside.

I'm sure this is only the worst part of Malaysia. Everything else should appear more rosy once I leave in the morning.