Fuck, I never should have joined a game where playing the setup is not only encouraged, but
necessary. Argh. Damn me and my mafia addiction. Anyway! Just finished reading these past couple pages (for which the content/WoT claims are vastly exaggerated; most of it's just a Bard/UK spat which actually is fairly pointless and seems to revolve around extremely minor playstyle issues more than anything else), and after deciding to
translate Smooth Criminal into (Standard) Hymmnos, time to finally post.
Moreover, you suggested that scum would avoid this, which isn't necessarily true, but the argument for that leads into WIFOM.
It does not take a degree in Astrophysics to realise that Scum principally do not want to off themselves in a game wherein having large numbers of Scum alive is
even more important and useful than normal.I fully agree with Kefit's setup analysis in #91. That being said, I don't think that this inheritly makes Pesco Scummy: both because doing such a rash movie is something
stupid for a Scum to do D1 - this is the worst possible time for a Scum to attract any form of negative attention to himself, and also because it's Pesco and Pesco never makes any fucking sense at all.
@Bard: If Knox ever saw how Pesco operated he'd probably lynch him in real life for gross violation of all of his principles.
@Roukan: except why would you assume that Scum!Pesco_{thisgame} is even LESS contributory than the typical Town!Pesco, which by Pesco-meta is far LESS contributory than the typical Scum!Pesco.
As a result, I consider anyone that thinks that challenging people without discussing it and getting everyone's approval is more likely to be scum. So Pesco loses points right off the bat.
Then he also says some things that makes me think he doesn't actually expect Bard to flip scum (that one post that says that even if he flips town it's all good comes to mind). I'm not liking some people voting for Pesco either (Chaos, EvilTom and UK stick out).
Bard himself wasn't real impressive at first, but I feel like he's gotten better. I didn't like his overly defensive nature, but he's gotten better about that since he started attacking UK. So yeah.
Translation: Pesco's bad and there are things pointing to him being Scum and simultaneously I don't like the people voting for him oh Bard is kind of crappy as well and he's kind of overdefensive but he's improved about that so let's vote Bard.
Now, who in these 3 paragraphs do you
not find scummy? This is surprisingly bad reasoning from you, but I'm willing to attribute this to the flu. For now. Want to see improvements soon.
...actually, this looks really terrible, like, hasty wagon jump terrible. You are definetly someone to keep a careful eye on D2.
He seems pretty damn calm with the idea that he is getting lynched so far. Don't like it.
Think for a bit. It is good for Scum in some situations to lose Townies due to Town vs. Town matches,
but it is never good for Scum to lose one of their own due to either a Town vs. Scum *or* a Scum vs. Scum match. So one of 3 things are true: Pesco's Scum together with Bard and he's trying to trade his life off to "confirm" Bardiche, Pesco's Scum and Bardiche is just some random mark that he's hoping to off today as Scum's first kill, or he's Town. The first option can basically be discounted at this point as being implausible thanks to Roukan's suggestion in #33: A Scum-Pesco would be dead by the end of D2 even if Bard wound up being the D1 lynch. If both Pesco and Bard are Scum, this is strictly terrible for the Scumteam. Now, even if Pesco is Scum and Bard is Town, he'd want
Bard to be the one lynched D1...
not himself. Bard's posts so far aren't great, and he's said enough to unnerve me over them, and apparently several other people. So why attract horrid amounts of attention onto yourself and get yourself lynched at a time when you dying is strictly bad for Scum as opposed to a time when it comes with the tradeoff of a single Townie kill? It just doesn't make any damn sense at all. Overall, his playstyle strongly supports Town-Pesco, despite it being absolutely hateful.
I'm leaning towards also voting Bard though because Pesco deciding to just challenge right away and use the fact that his gut is usually right as reasoning seems to go with the idea that scum should try to challenge without drawing attention to themselves.
This sentence contradicts itsself. Please restate/fix your reasoning or re-think your case, thanks.
@El Cid: either there exists a sane mod-confirmed cop in this setup combined with enough confidence that he did not hit a GF or frame-bait, in which case this game breaks, or there isn't,
in which case there is precisely no way to *confirm* someone as Town. Yes, I do not think that word means what you think it means here - without some form of rolemagic saying LOL YASE THIS GUY IZ TOTLLI LEGIT!!1!11!1!1111111!!!!!!!1!11!!!1!!!1111oneone!11!111!!!111!!!111!!!11!!!!!!! you are always, at some level, left guessing as to your ""confirmed"" Town's alignment. And there are several people in this game who are capable of playing excellent Scum games and appearing perfectly Townie. Which is why this idea, while gamebreaking if it were possible, really is not possible. Even a Sane Cop isn't terrible - we have no reasoning as to why the person he hit couldn't have been a GF, or someone who got Lawyer'd at the right time in-game.
@Pesco: I presume there is a lack of discussion because SirAlex posted his idea just a little over 12 hours ago, and it's during a time when a sizeable chunk of the playerbase (which lives in North America) would be asleep. Also, there's the issue of
today's match already having been decided, thanks to you, which makes the specific thing Alex mentioned in post#144
completely irrelevant for this day phase. That being said, I do support actual discussion today, which has been somewhat lacking, beyond a fairly pointless Bard/UK spat that took up most of pages#4 and #5. Sigh.
Currently not sure what to think. I'm fairly confident that Pesco's Town by the above analysis, but at the same time I'm not finding Bard overly Scummy. Will need to think about it for a bit before voting, especially with wagon numbers being what they are at the moment.