Himelander Mafia Thread (Over! Scum Win!)

[Jam-Kiske]

If Cid is a cop, I agree that it'd be best to get him the ability to use the ability. If it wasn't for the special prize today, I would probably be for letting him take a head today. However... as has been said [and is really just obvious] he could be lying. If this is the case, well we don't want him having a special prize.

I feel like we should just not have Cid in the challenge this time around and he could go next time [unless we get screwed by the Hime Star again].

As for who should fight today? I don't even know anymore. I want to say Chaore and someone townie. Scum or town, having someone suicidal is just kind of irritating, and it's difficult to tell if he's just suicidal town or scum trying to get us to think "oh he must be town if he just wants to die!"
However, the goal of scum is to try and get in a fight and WIN. So... I'm just confused by him. Ugh... >>

[UncertainJakutten]

Well, there is the WIFOM that actually appeared to be sorta working from Chaore. You know, the fact people started figuring he was just dumb town, so pushing it further might be him trying to see if he can survive a confrontation. Though he'd probably prefer to be against someone scummy rather than someone accepted as town, he can't exactly say that, ne?

[Chaore]

"oh he must be town if he just wants to die!"

Its a bit more 'Make the hell use of your own death'.

Though at this point, I'm wondering if I really do just want out of here.

[Kitten4u]

I support someone townish vs. Chaore today.  I wouldn't mind someone townish vs. UK, but I'm not sure how much of my read on her is colored by my dislike of her playstle.  Seriously, yesterday was really embarassing. >_>;;  So, I prefer someone vs. Chaore over someone vs. UK at this point. 

I'm also not really getting where people are getting these town reads on Kefit.  Can someone (or everyone, that'd be awesome too) explain it to me?

[Chaore]

I'm also not really getting where people are getting these town reads on Kefit.  Can someone (or everyone, that'd be awesome too) explain it to me?

Doubling this.

Alex seems to have had this feeling for a while. Confirm if its gut for me, would you, Alex?

[El Cideon]

I support someone townish vs. Chaore today.

K4U: Can I ask if you have a preference for the former player? Yes, this is a loaded question--I want as many people as possible to chime in on whether I should challenge Chaore. Presently stands at a couple nays opposite support from UK (well, and me, but I won't count myself unless the outcome is otherwise a tie).

At page 19 on reread (jesus christ so many words not doing this again) not yet seeing this glaring oversight, Chaore.

[Chaore]

At page 19 on reread (jesus christ so many words not doing this again) not yet seeing this glaring oversight, Chaore.

I'll wait till your final report before that decision is made.

[Ranmilia]

Kefit has posted using logic and reason from the beginning.  He hasn't bought into "mind hax", walls of text, "kill anyone who wins vs a townie" or other patently false or anti-town beliefs.  He has formed and stated opinions clearly and keenly, and been willing to abandon previous opinions once they are shown to be false.  All of his posts are memorable, coherent and contentful.  That's about as protown as someone can get in my book, and doubly so in this environment and this game.  He is unique in possessing these qualities compared to the rest of the game, except perhaps myself since I strive for those ideals in my play as well. 

[Kitten4u]

K4U: Can I ask if you have a preference for the former player? Yes, this is a loaded question--I want as many people as possible to chime in on whether I should challenge Chaore. Presently stands at a couple nays opposite support from UK (well, and me, but I won't count myself unless the outcome is otherwise a tie).

Yeah, you probably do make the most sense.  I have a strong enough town read on you that I doubt your lying about your ability and we obviously want you to be able to have a choice.

Second choice would be Rou because he looks extremely townie to me too.

Ninja by Alex.  I have to wonder why scum can't be logical, oppose attempts to break the set up etc., so I suppose I'll just have to disagree.  I'll reread him later to make sure I'm not missing something on his content, but I don't remember being real impressed.

[El Cideon]

I'll wait till your final report before that decision is made.

I don't see anything that significantly impacts my other recent statements. I see you casting vote #5 on for UK's survival, if that's what you mean, but this isn't a major alteration of your voting pattern. Bard suicide, of course, is the most noteworthy event in the past couple pages, but this isn't directly relevant to anything I've said in this last batch of posting (while Bard imploding likely was significantly driven by UK never letting up on him, I don't believe this result was really her intent). If there's still something you think I overlooked, let me know.

Little over two hours before I plan to check out for the night. Anyone around who hasn't weighed in on this yet?

[Chaore]

I don't see anything that significantly impacts my other recent statements. I see you casting vote #5 on for UK's survival, if that's what you mean, but this isn't a major alteration of your voting pattern. Bard suicide, of course, is the most noteworthy event in the past couple pages, but this isn't directly relevant to anything I've said in this last batch of posting (while Bard imploding likely was significantly driven by UK never letting up on him, I don't believe this result was really her intent). If there's still something you think I overlooked, let me know.

Little over two hours before I plan to check out for the night. Anyone around who hasn't weighed in on this yet?

I uh. Wait. What the hell?

You have NOTHING TO SAY ON THE ENTIRE DAY? -Nothing-?!

Good lord. If you're our cop, we are proper screwed...

[El Cideon]

I think the day was a clusterfuck, if that helps any, and no single party was solely responsible for what happened. There was a certain amount of goading the group away from an apparent consensus of me vs. you for the day's challenge which did not entirely originate from the day's ultimate contestants. And none of this significantly changes my opinion of you, so I saw little point in breaking it down in a series of posts that were mostly directed at gathering a group perspective on that delayed Cid vs. Chaore challenge.

[Edible]

You have some small amount of hours left.

[Chaore]

Around 4 and a half, since Edible is too lazy to math. :V

[UncertainJakutten]

Kefit has posted using logic and reason from the beginning.  He hasn't bought into "mind hax", walls of text, "kill anyone who wins vs a townie" or other patently false or anti-town beliefs.  He has formed and stated opinions clearly and keenly, and been willing to abandon previous opinions once they are shown to be false.  All of his posts are memorable, coherent and contentful.  That's about as protown as someone can get in my book, and doubly so in this environment and this game.  He is unique in possessing these qualities compared to the rest of the game, except perhaps myself since I strive for those ideals in my play as well.

Logic is one thing. Lack of memorable analysis is another. And that's certainly been rampant in Kefit's posts. Sorry, I think your criteria are wrong. As K4U said, Scum CAN be logical without promoting town goals.

[Chaore]

Hey, UK. Hows your gut feeling at the moment? Alright?

[UncertainJakutten]

And what's that supposed to mean, Chaore? I think the only strictly gut read I have is Rou. I've pretty well demonstrated why I think you are scummy. Course, I was wrong on Bard...

[Chaore]

And what's that supposed to mean, Chaore? I think the only strictly gut read I have is Rou. I've pretty well demonstrated why I think you are scummy. Course, I was wrong on Bard...

Exactly as it sounds. You're pretty sure Rou is town, aye?

[UncertainJakutten]

Aye, I'm pretty sure about that. It's maddeningly hard to explain.

[Chaore]

Aye, I'm pretty sure about that. It's maddeningly hard to explain.

Don't bother. I'll just take my bets.

##Challenge: Roukanken

Here's hopin' you're right.

Clarification: Not trusting Alex or Cid right now. I think I'll go with Rou.

[UncertainJakutten]

.
.
.

Seriously?

SERIOUSLY?

Eh, fuck it, at least you picked Rou

##Vote: Roukanken

[El Cideon]

Well, this is pretty easy. Unilateral challenger out of nowhere vs. someone that I've not had any problems with. Will give Rou a formal vote once one of the mods puts up the official CHALLENGE announcement.

Ninja:...Or I may as well just do it now since UK's already started. Sorry if we're jumping the gun here, mods.

##Vote: Roukanken

[Edible]

You're not.

CHALLENGE ACCEPTED!  Chaore vs. Roukanken, GO!

Roukanken (2): UncertainKitten, El Cideon

10 alive, 6 to win.

[Jam-Kiske]

Need anything even be said beyond somewhat of a [facepalm]?

No. >>

##Vote: Roukanken

[?lice Bl?ckb?rn]

Oh my god, what just happened. For reference I've basically been finishing up a major term project which is due in 2 days and thus have hardly had any time to do anything. I should be better now.

Oh my god Chaore what the fuck are you doing oh my god what.

Well this certainly puts a wrench into analysis: first off, Chaore, why do you "not trust Alex" today? There is virtually no reason to suspect he is Scum unless the D2/D3 clusterfuck is even worse than we all have been expecting. That being said, everything so far seems to point to Tom panicking more than anything else.

Cid hasn't exactly been great so far. Iffy and wishy-washy on virtually everything, and I don't know why everyone thinks he's so Pro-Town. I don't get any sort of a Scummy read off of him, but I don't get one that's Townie either. Basically completely neutral at the moment. None of his contributions have really helped in trying to ascertain his alignment so far.

That being said, while I don't think Cid is a good choice for today's challenge simply because of the shiny bauble as Alex has stated in his posts, what you did was kind of...what.

I'd classify Chaore's move in his latest post as some kind of weird Scum gambit except I've been iffy on you and leaning very strongly pro-Town on Roukan and if you seriously thought you could win this challenge after what happened on D1 and D2 then you're either the dumbest Scum to have ever lived, or, sadly, yet another Townie.

That being said, choice is obvious here, ##Vote: Roukanken

[UncertainJakutten]

As an aside, assuming Chaore flips scum, I think I'll have to revise my read of Roukanken.

I get a very...bragging feeling from Chaore's last post.

[UncertainJakutten]

EBWOP: I don't mean automatic revision, just a second look at his posts with a close eye for problems.

[Chaore]

Wait what? Get out of this alive? Are you kidding me?

If you assume that was ever my intent, you've gotta be kidding me. I've made it clear I'm preparing my death bed, if as stupidly as seems trademark to me.

I'll say it out right. I'm getting odd vibes from Alex right now. That is the only reason I'm wary. I don't have any hard core belief on him, but he suddenly took an odd jump with his new suggestion. Enough lynches, three without good reason and little revelations, to put us at a supposed 'Lylo' if there are, in fact, 3 Scum. His Kefit analysis is as shoddy as they come. Did our 'confirmed townie' suddenly start relaxing? You think he'd put a bit more effort with so much on the line, and with two supposed scum in front of him. Oh. And keep in mind Ciato suggested 'Chaos Vs. Alex'. Something I'd lose.

Kefit himself seems somewhat worrying. UK and K4U have pointed out hes really done shit all but take the challenge of the obvscum on in Kiro's stead, and launch a case against Serp. We know how that turned out. I'm all for him getting looked at. By proxy, if he turns up scum, I do wonder why the hell Alex is so joined at the hip to him. I'm not sure how, but he somehow managed to pick -3 scum- in the D2 mess if Kefit does come up scum. At that point. It seems more likely he KNEW who he was picking and for why. Tom just modified it by removing a scum to get a head for them.

So. Yeah. Consider Kefit. Long shot, but in a game where people do elect champions- What better way to get kills than to bus the hell out of yourselves beyond belief? It makes more sense why Tom and Ciato were playing badly- They were meant to, so there would be a 'reason' why they got picked out of everyone. For one, after last game, seeing Tom just do that is... Remarkably odd.

On Cid, having nothing to say on yesterday is pretty terrible. While not my shining hour, you think he'd have comments on other people who were scraping by. I honestly do not like his attitude. The fact he sounds like he has no planning going for his planned investigates makes me more worried. An Incompetent cop is as good as none.

UK isn't cleared if I come up Town. It just means I wasn't a scum buddy, and she was afraid of Cid getting a cop power out. Likely not scum if Cid is and vice versa.

Rou is fine unless I come up Scum, so it comes to that.

So yeah. Good luck with this. Hell knows it ain't my problem after this. :V

Just thoughts before I die. Feel free to ignore me. For all I know, it could just be Jam, Alice, UK/Cid.

Also. Whatever the hell Rou gets better be bitching.

[Kiro]

This game never ceases to amaze me.

In regards to Chaos: what? You're willing to die to Cid because it could reveal Scum, but not to Alex because it won't, and then you challenge Rou because he's more trusting than the both of them? The logic is twisted all over the place. Frankly, it looks a little like a case where you picked a target you have a better chance of winning against (however small that is). Otherwise, still makes no damn sense.

As for Rou: now that I have to think about him in the challenge spotlight, objectively there's nothing there to suggest he leans one way or the other. Meta wise, still leans Town. I don't think the wagon will change towards Chaos anyways and Rou should be ok.

##Vote Roukanken for survival. This is the L-1 vote.

I'll be back in 8 hours or so.

Cut by Chaos: So you are painting it as a Townie death... still can't believe why though. A Town v Town duels mentality is crappy this late in the game.

[Chaore]

Again, You are a complete moron if you think I intend to live here. :V