Himelander Mafia Thread (Over! Scum Win!)

[FinnKaenbyou]

EBWOP: If I had to choose, I'd say the scum in this position are Ciato and Tom. More confident in Tom being scum based on him forcing this whole scenario.

[El Cideon]

Trying real hard not to kneejerk antivote Tom. Didn't we go through this yesterday? What the hell is wrong with letting everyone have a chance to talk first.

Need to wash out brain and reread stuff. Kilga I've been pretty okay with, Tom I just remember scattered short posts that didn't make a heckuva lot of sense or really try to. Ciato's mostly been a background presence, Alex I've teetered between supporting and being wary of just for the risk of scumbloc sabotaging public attempts at organization.

[Bardiche]

Yeah sorry about my radio silence yesterday I was at a party but what have you done now.

Strongly considering voting away Tom because... "lol vote against WoT" is a crappy reason yesterday and initiating the challenge before anything is ...

Probable that if Tom is scum, one of those on the other team is scum as well. I agree with that. The problem is, is Tom scum or just an incredibly misguided Town who thinks teamwork with the majority is pass??

... yeahno. Let me re-read and see if I'd rather preserve Kilgamayan or one on the other team.

[Kiro]

Initial reaction pretty much pits Tom as Scum. He was accused by Alex and rather than enter discussion when we had a new dynamic added, he sets up a weirdass matchup. He accuses both Alex and Ciato of being Scum, but he also hasn't presented evidence of such. The only thing is how he dislikes Alex's dislike of Pesco (Town), but there was never a mention of Ciato from his mouth.

So if Tom is Town, he thinks he can bag 2 Scum at once and chose a partner who he thinks he can win with and I guess it was Kilga. The speed of the challenge probably assumes he's worried about being unilaterally put into a challenge with Ciato whom he thought was Scum. But he had to have known he could discuss both of them being Scum and get Town to commit 2 different people to challenge Alex and Ciato rather than haphazardly force himself into it. As for how bad it would make him look along with possibly being suspicious himself, letting Scum possibly earn 2 Townie heads in this duel is beyond reckless without talking it over with everybody else.

If Tom is Scum, that means one of Alex or Ciato must be Town so he can bag a head. The weird question to ask now is: are both Alex and Ciato Townies? The only reason this would occur is if both Tom and Kilga are Scum hoping for a chance to get 2 heads.

Personally, I think it's entirely moronic for Tom as Scum to make this kind of a challenge which he has a high chance of losing and dragging in a scumbuddy to boot. That indicates Kilga is likely Townie. Furthermore, if Tom knew he had a high chance of losing, he'd try to take someone down with him in this team match. Meaning one of Alex or Ciato is likely Scum to bag Kilga's head. Given the speed of this challenge and the otherwise worst case scenario of a scumpair of Tom and Ciato being pitted against a different group that could possibly beat them as Alex was suggesting, this makes it look like Ciato is Scum.

In any case, Tom is definitely more scummy than either Ciato or Alex at this point and in the remote chance Kilga is indeed Scum as well:

##Vote Team Alex & Ciato

P.S. I will be away for a little bit as I take a bus from Thailand to Malaysia so I do not know when I will get settled in to check the forum again. Hopefully within 24 hours again.

Cut by Rou: You said everything I just did in like 3 sentences. I'm terrible at this concise business.

[Serp]

Not a whole lot to say that hasn't already been said.  Unilateral challenge, with today's weird conditions no less, is a stronger tactic for scum than for town.  Combine this with Tom's already erratic posts so far and there's no way I'm willing to give him a chance to claim a head.

##Vote: Team Alex & Ciato

I'd advise Kiro not to try to read too far into Tom's tactics here, since Tom's move makes about as much sense as a basket full of red herrings as it does as any other townie or scum strategy, but we can try to dissect his psychology after what will very hopefully be his scumflip.

[Bardiche]

##VOTE: Alex & Ciato

Ciato's basically been non-existant and hasn't contributed much, but I'm definitely not comfortable with Tom, whether Kilga be on the team or no.

Tom, why did you pick Kilga to be on your team? You know from the previous day's proceedings that we're pretty opposed to people who quick-challenge, so why did you condemn Kilga to die with you in the likely event we wouldn't vote for your survival?

[Chaore]

Wait what the hell already? God damnit Tom.

Don't copy Pesco EXACTLY, at least! Get back here and defend yourself!

He accuses both Alex and Ciato of being Scum, but he also hasn't presented evidence of such. The only thing is how he dislikes Alex's dislike of Pesco (Town), but there was never a mention of Ciato from his mouth.

I'll make note here, He also outright mentions he is suspicious of people with strategies. Alex (If on Pesco's behest) brought forth a pretty big strategy people are taking up. Given that reasoning, Alex would seem like a giant fucking red light.

Given Pesco's flip, I'm not sure this really matter though. He didn't do it because he wanted to suggest a way for him to control votes, but because someone asked him his opinion on the system. I'm not sure his strategy entirely favors Scum, either.

I think I've got a reread of Ciato and Kilga in store, then. Tom has almost nothing, And Alex matches in 'Let me just toss something about how the game should go then contribute...nothing?' Hes done more gaming the system than scum hunting, last I checked and maybe I should reread both of them. I'm not sure where I got that impression, but I don't like how I got to that.

[Edible]

Day 2 Battle Update - Alex/Ciato VS Tom/Kilga
Alex/Ciato Team (4): Roukanken, Kiro, Serpentarius, Bardiche
Tom/Kilga Team (0):

With 15 alive, it takes 8 votes to win a duel.  Remember that you are voting for the team you want to win.

[Kitten4u]

Stomach flu sucks.  Slept 16 hours yesterday and I kind of want to go back to sleep now.  Brain is fried.  Doing my best here.  If something doesn't make sense you know what to do.

Gah, are you serious?  My opinion on quick duels still hasn't changed even if Pesco did flip town.  I still do not see how challenging before everyone could put their two cents in helps the town at all.  Tom has also been completely useless, so I think he's probably scum.  I don't have a problem with Kilga, so I'm assuming that scum!Tom just picked him to drag down with him if he died.

I don't really have any issues with Ciato.  He hasn't really said anything to make me think he's town or scum.  A couple of Alex's statements have been worrysome (most notably his first post today, if either Tom or Ciato flip town he's definitely going to be worth looking at), but he doesn't look too terrible.

##Vote Alex/Ciato Team

[Jam-Kiske]

Hey guys let's discuss and strategize before challenging!

LOLNO. Really? WHAT THE HELL GUYS.

This is incredibly irrating. Also gonna call Tom scummy for simply challenging rather than allowing everyone to discuss as Alex suggested we do. It's quite possible there's one scum on each team if they're desperate for a win, but if that's the case Tom is for sure more scummy.

Plus, why put Alex on a team with the other person he wanted you with in terms of suggesting challenging you? To get a scumbuddy to win either way? Ugh. >>

##Vote Alex and Ciato

[Kilgamayan]

Yeah I've lost zero motivation to do any sort of reread at this point.

I'm vanilla, gasp shock awe Aoi has no powers.

Highly suggest Alex vs. Ciato tomorrow for obvious reasons. Might be worth looking into both of them even after one dies, tiny corner of my brain is suggesting a Tom/Alex/Ciato team that knew Tom and I would lose based on Tom's approach to the day.

[Kilgamayan]

Er.

I have zero motivation.

I've lost so much I have ceased caring about proper English!

[Serp]

I've lost so much I have ceased caring about proper English!

You can't help but just give up?

Anyway, joking aside, any impressions upon a re-read you can give would be helpful to us in the rather likely event that you flip town, as then we'd all have a confirmed townie's impressions to work with.

(If Tom flips town and you flip scum, I am going to laugh so hard.)

[Kilgamayan]

Maybe later. I have more important things to do right now, like dump Katsucon pictures onto Poosh.

[MissCiato]

I don't really understand what is going on here, didn't we discuss that we shouldn't be doing what Tom just did?

I've basically believed that Alex is scum since Day 1 where he accused people who dared to defend someone he didn't like. It's arrogant, imperious, and I've felt like Alex has been trying to control the entire game. But UNFORTUNATELY because of a certain MEDIOCRITY, HE IS ON THE BALLOT WITH ME. What the fuck is wrong with you?

I don't really understand why Tom did what he did, but I strongly suspect that it was for scummy reasons. Tom/Alex team seems pretty plausible to me with minimal thought on Tom's part. I thought that Tom and Alex were scumbuddies since last day when Alex was trying to set up a fight between Tom and myself (and then preceed to railroad me.). I maybe am just being paranoid here maybe, but I think Alex was trying to set-up exactly what was going to occur in Day 2. Unfortunately what Tom did makes no sense in any context since that paints a big target on his head.

Most of what I wrote down to post on Day 2 involved Alex's "I will be angry with you regardless of how Pesco flips BECAUSE YOU DEFENDED SOMEONE I DON'T LIKE!". Basically I perceived Alex as being a bully toward Pesco, and I still do. Preying on the less logical players is just very easy.

I'm sorry, I am just really really pissed off about being team battle matched up with someone that I believe is scum and there's nothing I can do about it. I think challenges should be voted on instead of haphazardly thrown out there. I mean, as a rule of the game, not depending on people like Pesco and Tom to not do it. >_>

CHAOS has been the biggest floater in the game thus far. His contribution so far has been making observations and not saying anything definite. I am unsure what I want to go down tomorrow but I wouldn't mind seeing CHAOS vs. Alex.  I would have to read the entire topic again, though, for a full impression of everyone (lots of new people!)

I think Kilga reads pretty townie and I am pretty annoyed to be pitted against him.

##VOTE: Ciato and Alex

[Chaore]

Well, now we're at L-1.

Can we hold off on a useless hammer in favor of the off-chance Tom does have a role and something to contribute? I'd be rather irked if we hammer off the Cop before he can make a claim/give his results.

There is really no reason to silence him before he can say something, except for scummy reasons.

CHAOS vs. Alex

I'd prefer not to toss scum a kill, but I'm considering this myself.

[El Cideon]

Right. I've tried to make sense of Tom as town and it just isn't happening. He has to have known from yesterday what kind of reaction a unilateral challenge would get and I can't grapple with the idea of town Tom throwing himself in front of a truck like this. The situation is much easier to read if Tom is scum: the fact that there was little serious opposition to Alex's plan late yesterday combined with Alex's proposed challenge for today may have prompted Tom to take the initiative to at least make sure he wound up in a team of his own choosing. He can drag Kilga with him (who's seemed pretty town to me and who no one has voiced suspicion of) and make sure his proposed partner winds up on the other team (to collect a kill if said partner is also scum). It's basically making the best of an inconvenient situation.

Tom's comments yesterday were also mostly a mix of trolling and flippant nonchalance, so I really don't have a problem voting against him in this matchup. Not voting right now because it's hammertime and I don't think everyone's had a chance to weigh in yet, but fully prepared to do so barring some marvelous revelation.

Also disagree with several of Ciato's statements, particularly regarding Alex bullying Pesco. There's a difference between bad play illogical and willfully disruptive illogical; Pesco's playstyle was that of a lunatic, but he did knowingly get himself into that situation. I don't see anything unwarranted or excessively harsh about Alex's conduct in response. I'd also take Ciato's concerns about Alex more seriously if she'd voiced them before, and a quick scan of her posts shows no previous mention of him. The post reads to me like an attempt to paint a bright distinction between herself and Alex in preparation for tomorrow--which will most likely revolve around one or the other since they've almost won today's challenge. If someone in the Alex/Ciato matchup is scum, which seems very likely if Tom flips scum, then I think it's more likely to be Ciato.

[Kilgamayan]

Whee L-1. Better get this out now.

If Tom flips scum and Day 3 is a standard 1v1 challenge matchup, make sure the challenge is Alex vs. Ciato. Anyone that prematurely ejaculates a challenge that is not Alex/Ciato should be lynched with extreme prejudice for there is no reason to cut this challenge off unless one is scum trying to avoid giving town the chance to make a decision.

[Kilgamayan]

Also writing some more shit, so don't hammer yet.

Hell, no one should be hammering until Tom and Alex both post again.

[Bardiche]

##UNVOTE: Alex & Ciato

Just in case.

[Ranmilia]

what
what
what
what
what
what
what
what
what

Okay it's actually pretty obvious what, Tom/Ciato are scum and took this opportunity to snag a head.  Virtually certain.  Really two heads since it's true that I'll have to go down sometime now.  I certainly agree me vs Ciato tomorrow.

... no.  Maybe THREE heads total since it's possible only Tom is scum, from a mechanical advantage perspective?  From a gut perspective, though, I'm pretty sure on Ciato too, though some icky reasons come into play.  (In short: gotta fess up, even I am prone to bits of player meta sometimes.  Ciato is just the last person imaginable that would waffle and defend posts like this instead of going into a frothing rage.)

Anyway... I can't think of too much else to say.  Sympathies to Kilga, I know you have zero motivation, but you do know this environment well, any final thoughts on the rest of the players before you go out?

ALSO

BARDICHE

Did anything happen to you gameplaywise as a result of winning the duel yesterday?

Agreed no one should hammer in fact I think someone or sometwo should unvote so Tom can't come in and selfhammer.

ninja: thanks bard!

[Kilgamayan]

Sympathies to Kilga, I know you have zero motivation, but you do know this environment well, any final thoughts on the rest of the players before you go out?

Taking care of this right now, actually~

[Kilgamayan]

Thoughts on players that are not Tom. I actually kinda like having the freedom to do a game-wide summary thanks to Tom sticking the Sword of Damocles above my head.

---

Bard: Possible scum, in retrospect. Day 1 was reporteration plus walls of chaff and his questioning of Tom today is silly and pointless - Tom most certainly wanted someone on his team people would think twice about before they voted against him, and in the likely event Tom's scum he also gets the additional bonus of taking someone down with him that scum can't get mislynched otherwise (if I may toot my own horn). Looks like faux grilling akin to what Rat did to Chaore in RKS.

K4U: Don't recall seeing anything bad from her. Slight town lean.

Alice: Needs to post more. Bet you all didn't see that one coming.

Chaore: Couldn't remember a single thing he said without rereading the entire topic. Inclined to lean scum on this alone. Rereading him reminded me why I couldn't remember anything he said, because most of his posts have been little non-contributory one-liners. and his longer posts are :words: more than :content:.

Kiro/Serp: Leaning town on them, I remember nodding my head along to most of what they've posted.

Roukan: Playing largely like TownRoukan, but it's been so long since I've seen ScumRoukan that something is itching at me to stay alert metawise. Neutral read. Some similar feelings here as what I wrote about Chaore, except I actually remembered a few things Roukan had posted.

Kefit: The number-crunching was nice and all but he's had exactly one meaningful post all game. This needs to change.

UK: Completely forgot about her, to be honest. That's probably not a good sign. Total lack of content today is worrying.

Jam: Her posts read very much like they read in RKS Mafia. Probably town. Useless aside: This is the second MotK game in a row where we've had four girls and I don't think we'd ever had more than three at once in any game before that.

Cid: Feeling pretty good here in general. Basically Kiro and Serp without an avatar. Probably town.

---

I'm honestly not sure where I stand on Alex vs. Ciato. I feel Ciato's posts have read and felt slightly more like a townie's (as much as playing the setup has become more important than normal, it's still easy for scum to use to feign content), but I think a Tom/Ciato team is more likely to go ahead with this Day 2 plan than a Tom/Alex team.

Here are my Day 3 suggestions, covering a variety of challenge scenarios I believe possible. All of these assume Tom flips scum.

1 vs. 1 - Alex vs. Ciato, no question. I maintain that anyone that issues a Day 3 challenge that is not Alex vs. Ciato needs to be ground into the pavement as fast as possible.

1 vs. 1 vs. 1 - Alex vs. Ciato vs. one of Bard/Chaore...leaning slightly toward Bard but the difference is minimal.

2 vs. 2 - Some combination of the above four with Ciato and Alex on opposite teams.

[UncertainJakutten]

UK: Completely forgot about her, to be honest. That's probably not a good sign. Total lack of content today is worrying.

Part of it is fatigue. I'm lost this game. I don't know what to look for. Yes, I think Tom should hang for obvious reasons that have had the shit beat out of them. Sorry you have to go with him though.

At any rate, I need some bearings basically. I could recheck what I need to produce that I never was able to follow through on. Or, I could ask everyone to make a request of information of me that I'll provide, which would both answer questions and allow me to integrate back in the game, if that makes sense.

I've also been working on getting Umineko mafia started on MS, but that was a couple hours ago.

[Bardiche]

Did anything happen to you gameplaywise as a result of winning the duel yesterday?

What do you mean? I didn't die.

[Kilgamayan]

I think he's talking about boosted powers.

[Bardiche]

Don't appreciate rolefishery~

[Kilgamayan]

He's not asking what you got, he's asking if you got anything at all. That's less rolefishing and more confirming a theorized game mechanic initially suggested by the mod.

[Bardiche]

I didn't get anything I particularly feel the need to share for; it's useless either way.

[Ranmilia]

Yeah, what Kilga said.  You obviously don't need to say WHAT you got - although in a game with no nightkills I'm not actually sure why you wouldn't - but whether you got anything at all is nice to know for planning future challenges. 

Ninja'd.  Hrm.  Well I don't like the reticence there at all, but I guess I'm about to win one myself so I'll find out.