Author Topic: Black Stories ~ Touhou Edition - Case 20: Down to the bottom of Misty Lake! (Read 72291 times)

axman36 · « **Reply #960 on:** February 28, 2010, 07:18:20 AM »

And she didn't see the ball of darkness until she came near it.

Was Shou trying to use the light coming from the Pagoda?

Pesco · « **Reply #961 on:** February 28, 2010, 07:19:30 AM »

Yes it was daylight but Rumia could have expanded her ball to cover Shou. Shou would think an eclipse happened.

Dead Princess Sakana · « **Reply #962 on:** February 28, 2010, 07:26:59 AM »

Quote

And she didn't see the ball of darkness until she came near it.

There is so much truth in those words, but probably in another way than you think. Try to work your way from this quote.

Quote

Was Shou trying to use the light coming from the Pagoda?

YES. It appears in the solution. Don't try to read too much into it though.

Quote

Yes it was daylight but Rumia could have expanded her ball to cover Shou. Shou would think an eclipse happened.

Whether she expanded the ball or not is IRRELEVANT to the case.

Prody · « **Reply #963 on:** February 28, 2010, 04:16:53 PM »

:/ Once more:

Shou was flying over the lake, holding her Pagoda, and wandered into Rumia's black orb unknowingly. Shou realised it was dark and used the light from the pagoda to light the darkness. The light agitated Rumia and caused her to bite Shou on her arm that was holding the Pagoda, causing her to drop it. She then dove into the lake below to get the Pagoda back.

Thaws · « **Reply #964 on:** March 01, 2010, 02:31:00 AM »

Quote from: Prody on February 28, 2010, 04:16:53 PM

Shou was flying over the lake, holding her Pagoda, and wandered into Rumia's black orb unknowingly. Shou realised it was dark and used the light from the pagoda to light the darkness. The light agitated Rumia and caused her to bite Shou on her arm that was holding the Pagoda, causing her to drop it. She then dove into the lake below to get the Pagoda back.

NO. Here's another hint: Try thinking why the underlined statement is unlikely to happen.
Remember Sakana's hint: "Take Shou's perspective. How did the whole situation appear to her? What did she see?"

axman36 · « **Reply #965 on:** March 01, 2010, 02:45:58 AM »

Was Shou going toward Rumia intentionally?

Thaws · « **Reply #966 on:** March 01, 2010, 03:16:58 AM »

Quote from: axman36 on March 01, 2010, 02:45:58 AM

Was Shou going toward Rumia intentionally?

WRONG ASSUMPTION. Shou never went towards Rumia. Rumia was the one that went towards Shou, but that is not the only reason why Shou would not wander into Rumia's black orb. Perhaps I should not have underlined "unknowingly", that was not the point.

Prody · « **Reply #967 on:** March 01, 2010, 03:40:15 AM »

Shou was flying over the lake, holding her Pagoda. Nearby, Rumia was heading towards Shou with intention to attack her. Shou did not notice the ball of darkness until it was really close. When Shou noticed her, she used the light from the pagoda to light the darkness. The light agitated Rumia and caused her to bite Shou on her arm that was holding the Pagoda, causing her to drop it. She then dove into the lake below to get the Pagoda back.

axman36 · « **Reply #968 on:** March 01, 2010, 03:41:21 AM »

If the above theory is not correct, did Rumia bite Shou?

EDIT: Typos, thou art annoying.

Thaws · « **Reply #969 on:** March 01, 2010, 03:48:48 AM »

Quote from: Prody on March 01, 2010, 03:40:15 AM

Shou was flying over the lake, holding her Pagoda. Nearby, Rumia was heading towards Shou with intention to attack her. Shou did not notice the ball of darkness until it was really close. When Shou noticed her, she used the light from the pagoda to light the darkness. The light agitated Rumia and caused her to bite Shou on her arm that was holding the Pagoda, causing her to drop it. She then dove into the lake below to get the Pagoda back.

NO. Underlined statements are wrong.

Quote

did Rumia bite Shou?

NO. It wouldn't be possible for Rumia to locate Shou that precisely that she can bite her. In fact, Rumia can't see in her ball of darkness so she only attempted to bump into Shou then attack, most probably by biting. However, whether she succeeded or not is irrelevant to the case.

Prody · « **Reply #970 on:** March 01, 2010, 06:40:00 AM »

Shou was flying over the lake, holding her Pagoda. Nearby, Rumia was heading towards Shou with intention to attack her. Shou did not notice the ball of darkness. Rumia did not know the exact position of the target and attacked the source of light: The Pagoda. This attack caused Shou to drop her Pagoda. She then dove into the lake below to get the Pagoda back.

Thaws · « **Reply #971 on:** March 01, 2010, 07:25:09 AM »

Quote from: Prody on March 01, 2010, 06:40:00 AM

Shou was flying over the lake, holding her Pagoda. Nearby, Rumia was heading towards Shou with intention to attack her. Shou did not notice the ball of darkness. Rumia did not know the exact position of the target and attacked the source of light: The Pagoda. This attack caused Shou to drop her Pagoda. She then dove into the lake below to get the Pagoda back.

NO. It's been answered before that the reason Shou dropped her pagoda was due to an attempt to defend herself.

axman36 · « **Reply #972 on:** March 01, 2010, 07:33:30 AM »

What we have to figure out if we wish to solve this is what said attempt of defense is and why Shou did not notice Rumia until she was close.

Did any of the attacks strike Shou?

Did she attempt to dodge the attacks?

Thaws · « **Reply #973 on:** March 01, 2010, 07:44:07 AM »

Quote from: axman36 on March 01, 2010, 07:33:30 AM

What we have to figure out if we wish to solve this is what said attempt of defense is?

YES

Quote from: axman36 on March 01, 2010, 07:33:30 AM

and why Shou did not notice Rumia until she was close.

NO. She simply did not notice, that's all.

Quote from: axman36 on March 01, 2010, 07:33:30 AM

Did any of the attacks strike Shou?

NO

Quote from: axman36 on March 01, 2010, 07:33:30 AM

Did she attempt to dodge the attacks?

NO, she opted to defend against it, and that's what caused her to drop the pagoda as said before. This is what's left to be discovered.

In case 4, Sakana also mentioned that we should take the girl's perspective. In that case, we knew she have not eaten iguana meat before but she thought she did. As a result, we couldn't figure the case out for a long time.
Now this is similar, we knew something, but Shou did not.

axman36 · « **Reply #974 on:** March 01, 2010, 07:52:50 AM »

Well, this is going to sound quite odd, but...

Does the fact that we know that Shou does not involve something about her pagoda?

Does the fact involve Rumia?

Dead Princess Sakana · « **Reply #975 on:** March 01, 2010, 08:22:52 AM »

Quote

Does the fact that we know that Shou does not involve something about her pagoda?

NO

Quote

Does the fact involve Rumia?

Very YES

Prody · « **Reply #976 on:** March 01, 2010, 08:30:43 AM »

Did the method of defense involve her Pagoda?

Did the method of defense involve words?

Did the method of defense involve disabling Rumia?

Shou did not know Rumia was in the black orb at all and was startled at that fact.

Dead Princess Sakana · « **Reply #977 on:** March 01, 2010, 08:33:54 AM »

Ah, we're getting closer to the truth.

Quote

Did the method of defense involve her Pagoda?

NO. Only in that she dropped it involuntarily, as has been discovered already.

Quote

Did the method of defense involve words?

NO

Quote

Did the method of defense involve disabling Rumia?

NO

Quote

Shou did not know Rumia was in the black orb at all and was startled at that fact.

YES for the first part

Pesco · « **Reply #978 on:** March 01, 2010, 11:04:17 AM »

Speculative shot:

Does Shou even know who or what Rumia is?

Thaws · « **Reply #979 on:** March 01, 2010, 11:07:40 AM »

Quote from: Inaba Tewi on March 01, 2010, 11:04:17 AM

Does Shou even know who or what Rumia is?

NO, this leads to a very important inference.

Prody · « **Reply #980 on:** March 01, 2010, 11:44:56 AM »

Did Rumia ever showed her face at all?

If so, was this after Shou's act of defense?

Or was it before?

Did the act of defense involve shielding herself?

Dead Princess Sakana · « **Reply #981 on:** March 01, 2010, 11:48:06 AM »

Quote

Did Rumia ever showed her face at all?

IRRELEVANT

Quote

If so, was this after Shou's act of defense?

See above, if she did, it would only have been afterwards

Quote

Or was it before?

See above

Quote

Did the act of defense involve shielding herself?

YES

Prody · « **Reply #982 on:** March 01, 2010, 11:58:37 AM »

Shou was flying over the lake, holding her Pagoda. Nearby, Rumia was heading towards Shou with intention to attack her. Shou did not notice the ball of darkness. With the fact that Shou did not know Rumia was in the ball of darkness at all, she was caught off guard when Rumia attacked her. She managed to defend herself in time by shielding herself with her arm holding the Pagoda. Rumia bumped into the arm, causing Shou to drop the Pagoda. She then dove into the lake below to get the Pagoda back.

...I feel pretty clueless ?_?

Dead Princess Sakana · « **Reply #983 on:** March 01, 2010, 12:03:14 PM »

I'll wait for Thaws to decide if this counts as solved or if he wants something more, but this is pretty much the answer, YES

Thaws · « **Reply #984 on:** March 01, 2010, 12:19:19 PM »

Quote from: Prody on March 01, 2010, 11:58:37 AM

Shou was flying over the lake, holding her Pagoda. Nearby, Rumia was heading towards Shou with intention to attack her. Shou did not notice the ball of darkness. With the fact that Shou did not know Rumia was in the ball of darkness at all, she was caught off guard when Rumia attacked her. She managed to defend herself in time by shielding herself with her arm holding the Pagoda. Rumia bumped into the arm, causing Shou to drop the Pagoda. She then dove into the lake below to get the Pagoda back.

YES for the some parts. NO for the underlined.
My main concern here is that Shou did not exactly shield herself from Rumia bumping into her, and that the significant role of Rumia's darkness ability has not been discovered. I'll declare this case solved if either one of this is discovered. Is this alright?

Prody · « **Reply #985 on:** March 01, 2010, 01:16:17 PM »

From the facts I've gathered, what I conclude is that Shou somehow made an act of defense which does not involve physically shielding herself or dodging. Is that right?

For the darkness, did it overpower the light from the pagoda or did the pagoda's light overpower the darkness?

Thaws · « **Reply #986 on:** March 01, 2010, 01:34:03 PM »

It seems I've got you thinking in the wrong direction.

Quote from: Prody on March 01, 2010, 01:16:17 PM

From the facts I've gathered, what I conclude is that Shou somehow made an act of defense which does not involve physically shielding herself or dodging. Is that right?

NO, she wanted to shield herself from something physical, but if it wasn't Rumia herself, what can it be?

Quote from: Prody on March 01, 2010, 01:16:17 PM

For the darkness, did it overpower the light from the pagoda or did the pagoda's light overpower the darkness?

UNKNOWN, althought it's stated that she tried to use the pagoda, she never did because she had already dropped it by then, most likely while entering the darkness or not long before entering the darkness.

MysTeariousYukari · « **Reply #987 on:** March 01, 2010, 01:48:07 PM »

I'm sorry if this was already asked but, was their anyone else involved in this Case besides Shou and Rumia, a 3rd person/youkai/whatever?

if Yes, did this 3rd person do something that Shou would try to block?

Prody · « **Reply #988 on:** March 01, 2010, 02:00:49 PM »

Quote from: MystearicaUtsuho on March 01, 2010, 01:48:07 PM

I'm sorry if this was already asked but, was their anyone else involved in this Case besides Shou and Rumia, a 3rd person/youkai/whatever?

if Yes, did this 3rd person do something that Shou would try to block?

No more than 2 people were involved.

Quote from: Thaws on March 01, 2010, 01:34:03 PM

NO, she wanted to shield herself from something physical, but if it wasn't Rumia herself, what can it be?

Unless it was a projectile of some sort, I can't think of any other thing that could be physical. Therefore, she could have only done the act of defense against Rumia, right?

Was this method of defense simple blocking? (I know I am repeating myself but I am pretty lost on this side of the case.)

Quote

UNKNOWN, althought it's stated that she tried to use the pagoda, she never did because she had already dropped it by then, most likely while entering the darkness or not long before entering the darkness.

Shou was flying over the lake, holding her Pagoda. Nearby, Rumia, who was in a ball of darkness was heading towards Shou with intention to attack her. Shou noticed it was getting pretty dark so she tried to use her Pagoda to light the area. Rumia attacked her just as soon as she was about to. This attack startled Shou, causing her to defend herself and in the process drop the Pagoda. She then dove into the lake below to get the Pagoda back.

Thaws · « **Reply #989 on:** March 01, 2010, 02:09:56 PM »

Quote from: MystearicaUtsuho on March 01, 2010, 01:48:07 PM

I'm sorry if this was already asked but, was their anyone else involved in this Case besides Shou and Rumia, a 3rd person/youkai/whatever?

NO

Quote

Unless it was a projectile of some sort, I can't think of any other thing that could be physical. Therefore, she could have only done the act of defense against Rumia, right?

NO, Shou did not shield herself against Rumia herself.

Quote

Was this method of defense simple blocking? (I know I am repeating myself but I am pretty lost on this side of the case.)

YES, she dropped the pagoda while she tried to block something. As I said, once that "something" to be blocked is discovered, this case is solved.

Quote

Shou was flying over the lake, holding her Pagoda. Nearby, Rumia, who was in a ball of darkness was heading towards Shou with intention to attack her. Shou noticed it was getting pretty dark so she tried to use her Pagoda to light the area. Rumia attacked her just as soon as she was about to. This attack startled Shou, causing her to defend herself and in the process drop the Pagoda. She then dove into the lake below to get the Pagoda back.

NO. Assume the pagoda's light would not penetrate Rumia's darkness. The pagoda's light has nothing to do with the case. Also, assume it was really bright in the afternoon.

You're really close to the truth. What did the situation looked like to Shou? Why would Rumia's ability have a significant role in all of this? Shou wanted to block something physical, but what really was the thing that she's shielding from?