Phantasmagoria of Flower View Discussion thread

[mew77]

You know Phantasmagoria can be considered one of the hardest touhou games ever.

I know what you're thnking. Sure it's not just because the patterns are all inherently random. It's not just the godly dodging scripts. And it can't jsut be the game crashing every time you press pause. No...

The random patterns aren't a problem as my reflexes are okay, and the game crahsing every time I press pause is tolerable, but I'd like it to stop.

No it's the AI. ZUN's AI, even on easy mode shifts between two states.

The Drunken God State

Dodges literally everything I throw at them no matter how difficult it would be for a human player to do the same. Can stay on this mode for 5+ minutes while at the same time pressuring you.

The Simply Drunk State

Gets hit by literally everything and moves erratically for short periods of time. Usually enough to get knocked down to 2 and a half or one half lives. Then immediately switches to Drunken God state for the remainder of the battle.

Shikeiki, you've got to stop doing that!!
Surprisingly, my play style in POFV also sometimes fits this pattern.

<Nobu> Redundancy in title redundant (by Nobu)

[Esoterica]

I 1cc'd PoFV lunatic twice before getting all normal 1ccs, so I can't really relate. :V

[nintendonut888]

Protip: Use Aya. I don't care if she's considered cheap, watching the AI smash into her bullets within seconds and getting a lunatic 1cc my first try was the most fun I've ever had with this game.

[Seian Verian]

I 1cc'd PoFV lunatic twice before getting all normal 1ccs, so I can't really relate. :V

I consider PoFV to be up there with SA and UFO in terms of difficulty :V

[Esoterica]

Protip: Use Aya. I don't care if she's considered cheap, watching the AI smash into her bullets within seconds and getting a lunatic 1cc my first try was the most fun I've ever had with this game.

Do it against lunatic match play Shikieiki.

Also, cool people use Mystia.

[?q]

Protip: Use Aya. I don't care if she's considered cheap, watching the AI smash into her bullets within seconds and getting a lunatic 1cc my first try was the most fun I've ever had with this game.

Silly donut, PoFV isn't for people who expect to win~

[ebarrett]

Protip: Use Aya. I don't care if she's considered cheap, watching the AI smash into her bullets within seconds and getting a lunatic 1cc my first try was the most fun I've ever had with this game.

DONUT


mew77: ignore everything on the other side of the screen and treat the game as a survival marathon. Also, Aya and Medicine break the game and are considered blatant cheating by anyone who's not in denial - see the video in my signature, and the replays linked in the video description, for a demonstration.

Of course, you *can* go ahead and 1cc it with Aya or Medicine and brag about it, but then we'll have two people to laugh at.  :V

Also, cool people use Mystia.

+1

[?q]

Also, cool people use Mystia.

Whatever I said about Mystia being bottom tier before, I take it back.  Mystia is more awesome than I expected.

[Esoterica]

Whatever I said about Mystia being bottom tier before, I take it back.  Mystia is more awesome than I expected.

When it comes to the AI, the only thing not terrible about her is the lovely fact that her bullets from bombs don't move immediately, meaning if they get sent back they're going to move at a snail's pace on your screen.

Against humans though, she's amazing <3

[ebarrett]

Against humans though, she's amazing <3

She's amazing for story mode, too. Just finished yet another lunatic 1cc which failed to save (probably the 12th or so that I lose to the save bug, 7th or 8th with Mystia - only four successful runs ever saved instead of crashing to desktop, one with Reimu, one with Cirno and, interestingly enough, the Aya/Medicine no-focus no-vertical ones).

Died three times to Shikieiki, until she finally went down in *gasp* 2:24! (I never expect Shiki to last less than three minutes, and three minutes and a half isn't unreasonable for Mystia)

Score was horrible, though, and didn't get even close to making it into my Mystia top 5.  :V

[Kasei Honoo]

That reminds me although I may be asking for a death wish since I'm no where near most of the people on the forum skill wise. Any one wanna play? I haven't been able to play this game with a human for AGES

[mew77]

DONUT


mew77: ignore everything on the other side of the screen and treat the game as a survival marathon.


+1

I try...

Is there a way to stop the game from crashing every time I pause?

[Dead Princess Sakana]

Is there a way to stop the game from crashing every time I pause?

That shouldn't happen in the first place, so it's likely your PC's fault. I don't think there's any way to fix that.
Maybe you should try to reinstall the game?

[?q]

When it comes to the AI, the only thing not terrible about her is the lovely fact that her bullets from bombs don't move immediately, meaning if they get sent back they're going to move at a snail's pace on your screen.

The AI seemed to like getting hit for no obvious reason when I used her on Hard Mode, lasting less time against her than some of my more favorite characters (Sikieiki)...
Plus the slow speed of the reflected bullets puts her on top of the bottom tier at least.

[Sen]

PoFV story mode doesn't really change much from difficulty to difficulty. The AI just lasts a bit longer on higher difficulties.

Then you get to Shikeiki and you learn why it's called Lunatic. :V

[Esoterica]

PoFV story mode doesn't really change much from difficulty to difficulty. The AI just lasts a bit longer on higher difficulties.

Then you get to Shikeiki and you learn why it's called Lunatic. :V

Pretty much this. v;

Though if Komachi gets her spellpoints up, I'd consider her to be much scarier.  Fortunately, that doesn't usually happen in story mode. :V

[AlexX Unlimited]

I use Reisen entirely because I can even though I know she's a pain to use sometimes.

Use her against friends and use her in story mode. She does acceptably against my Marisa-using pal and I can make it to Komachi before I game over on story mode.

[Seian Verian]

I'm curious, is Shikieiki considered a cheap character like Aya or Medicine? I know the AI can't handle her laser, but when Aya and Medicine keep being mentioned, Shikieiki isn't...

[ebarrett]

I'm curious, is Shikieiki considered a cheap character like Aya or Medicine? I know the AI can't handle her laser, but when Aya and Medicine keep being mentioned, Shikieiki isn't...

The laser thing is broken, but is also a leap of faith; you can perfectly go for multiple rounds and never get the stars aligned. Then again, you will eventually luck into an easy win given enough attempts, something that most other characters will never give you.

I'd still put her between "top tier" and "broken tier", though, because even without the laser AI bug she'd be awesome: she already has decent speed, and a devastating lvl1 charge. I am aiming for a no-focus, no-vertical lunatic 1cc with her, after all.  :V

[Seian Verian]

I'd still put her between "top tier" and "broken tier", though, because even without the laser AI bug she'd be awesome: she already has decent speed, and a devastating lvl1 charge. I am aiming for a no-focus, no-vertical lunatic 1cc with her, after all.  :V

Decent speed? Considering how much you like Mystia, I'm guessing that means pretty high... Which I don't consider a good thing <.< And I don't use level 1 charges much, so that doesn't much matter to me. Besides, I like Yuka's spread/shotgun better for dealing with Lily White/boss attacks <_< >_>

[Esoterica]

I'm curious, is Shikieiki considered a cheap character like Aya or Medicine? I know the AI can't handle her laser, but when Aya and Medicine keep being mentioned, Shikieiki isn't...

Competitive players rank her below Reimu.

But Reimu's top, so :V

[ebarrett]

Decent speed? Considering how much you like Mystia, I'm guessing that means pretty high... Which I don't consider a good thing

Well, her unfocused speed is very high, which is good for my NFNV attempts and more than enough for a quick move when you see a OH SHIT MACRODODGE NOW wave coming in your general direction. Her focused speed is on par with Reimu's, I think, but then again it has been so long that I last pressed "shift" with Shikieiki that I can't tell without checking the wiki.  :V

Competitive players rank her below Reimu.

But Reimu's top, so :V

Reimu has that nice lightning-fast gauge, and if you're less reckless than I am, the slower speed is probably better for micrododging. Also, Reimu's lvl2/3s and boss attack are all a lot more dangerous to another player than Shiki's hotdog spam, so yeah, for netplay, I think you can't argue against Reimu. I hear Youmu is the other favourite among top players but I never really learned how to use her.

[Arcengal]

PoFV Lunatic is great fun. I got to Sikieiki first try, but got schooled. There was a round against Komachi where we each got four spells off in a row, but her's was last. There was no. way. in. hell. that I could dodge the amount of bullets that happened. It was awesome.

[shadowbringer]

I didn't notice much difference in difficulty, compared to Normal Mode. I did notice, though, that your special attack level is raised to 10, meaning that I have to spam the lvl 2 attack fewer times before lvl. 16.

PoFV is fun to play for score, even when it "forces" me to restart the game if I don't score well enough at important stages.

[Esoterica]

Reimu has that nice lightning-fast gauge, and if you're less reckless than I am, the slower speed is probably better for micrododging. Also, Reimu's lvl2/3s and boss attack are all a lot more dangerous to another player than Shiki's hotdog spam, so yeah, for netplay, I think you can't argue against Reimu. I hear Youmu is the other favourite among top players but I never really learned how to use her.

And smaller hitbox and retardedly powerful charge attack, can't forget those.

Youmu's up there, but I don't think she's necessarily a favorite.  Out of all the PoFV tournaments I've watched videos of, I can only think of one where a Youmu even placed.  The top four is almost always Reimu, Marisa, and Shikieiki in some random order.

E: Nevermind, I take that back.  Two of them had placing Youmus.

[Darklightz]

Alright, so I started playing Touhou games a while back and got addicted. I still can't figure out half of what's going on in PoFV though. My opponent always charges level level 4 first no matter how fast I rush to fill my spell meter first and then it gets crazy with the opponent being able to summon her level 4 2 and sometimes 3 times in a row before I can recharge my own meter. Is there something I missed? And yes, I'm a noob

Also, I agree with OP, this game is insanely hard. I put 2 computers against each other and just watched them both dodge everything for 5 minutes without getting hit. How is a human supposed to beat that?

[Esoterica]

Alright, so I started playing Touhou games a while back and got addicted. I still can't figure out half of what's going on in PoFV though. My opponent always charges level level 4 first no matter how fast I rush to fill my spell meter first and then it gets crazy with the opponent being able to summon her level 4 2 and sometimes 3 times in a row before I can recharge my own meter. Is there something I missed? And yes, I'm a noob

Also, I agree with OP, this game is insanely hard. I put 2 computers against each other and just watched them both dodge everything for 5 minutes without getting hit. How is a human supposed to beat that?

You get free lv4s at 100k, 300k, and 500k spellpoints (which you get for repeatedly destroying things with little or no breaks inbetween).

Also, humans can get to be just as insane. :V

[ebarrett]

My opponent always charges level level 4 first no matter how fast I rush to fill my spell meter first and then it gets crazy with the opponent being able to summon her level 4 2 and sometimes 3 times in a row before I can recharge my own meter.

Protip: never, ever use your gauge to release a lvl4. Defend yourself with lvl2s and you'll get the automatic summons Esoterica mentioned.

Also remember that if you have at least 2 gauge, you can bomb to spend everything and release an attack+shockwave of the appropriate level instantaneously. It's a risky move though since you'll be defenseless for a rather long time afterwards, so only use it if you're about to die, doing it at full health means you'll probably get hit more times in the long run.

Oh and PoFV's AI is horribly broken. Try not to worry much. Story mode works a bit differently - it gets easier as you lose lives. I think only first-round lunatic Shikieiki plays with full AI capabilities (or first-round lunatic Reimu for Shiki's story mode).

[Darklightz]

Gah I'm nowhere near the skill level of those Marisas.

Speaking of wich, how do you make a summon of yourself without using a level 4 charge? I see everyone do it and I have no idea how...I have read the Touhou wikia page on PoFV a dozen times and still can't figure it out.

Well I'm glad there's a reason why I can clear everyone in story mode yet still die horribly against Shikieiki.

[Polaris]

Level 4 attacks are made automatically when you reach 100,000 points, 300,000 points, and 500,000 points for the current stage.