Imperishable Night Team Discussion

[ghost333]

My main team is the Scarlet team.
I 1cc the game on normal first time with nether team.
then with all others.
I 1cc the game on hard first time with Scarlet team.(very tough for the first weeks)
then with all others.
I 1cc the game on lunatic for first time with the border team.
with others it was impossible......
at least until 6 months pass and my play level skyrocked....

[Zengeku]

Just went for a test. Anyone but Borderteam are useless. Including the scarlets.

[Azinth]

Just went for a test. Anyone but Borderteam are useless. Including the scarlets.

It's usually a good idea to test something for more than two to five minutes before posting.  Just a heads up.

[Zengeku]

It's usually a good idea to test something for more than two to five minutes before posting.  Just a heads up.

Yeah i know. its not official or anything either. Its just my idea about it. The point is that i hate to learn stages (feels like work when i should be playing a game. That's just me) and the border team almost eliminates that.

I guess i could rephrase my post: Went for some testing and i found the other teams to be less useful than Border Team because you need to practice the stages and memorize a lot in order to take advantage of their benefits.

Better?

[Helix ⑨]

Just did a normal run with Sakuya/Remilia (note that I like never did this before) and I must say I am impressed. Sakuya is decent in the stage, her spread and damage are okay. The item fall speed reducement is really nice during times you can't reach the PoC and you'd otherwise lose items. And damn, am I right to say remilia has the highest damage output of all characters? I've never had spells end this quick as with her. But what really impressed me was the time point collecting, usually I have problems reaching the time limit in stage 4 and 5, but I did 4 with 12k out of 9999 required and in stage 5 I already had 9050 out of 9999 by the time I reached reisen!

[Zengeku]

Just did a normal run with Sakuya/Remilia (note that I like never did this before) and I must say I am impressed. Sakuya is decent in the stage, her spread and damage are okay. The item fall speed reducement is really nice during times you can't reach the PoC and you'd otherwise lose items. And damn, am I right to say remilia has the highest damage output of all characters? I've never had spells end this quick as with her. But what really impressed me was the time point collecting, usually I have problems reaching the time limit in stage 4 and 5, but I did 4 with 12k out of 9999 required and in stage 5 I already had 9050 out of 9999 by the time I reached reisen!

I suppose you don't need too much practice when you are just going for a Normal clear. I'll try that out now i guess.

[Milkyway64]

IN is probably my most played touhou game. I think all shot types are useful, but Border Team is hands down the one I would go with if, say, a super secret and unknown Phantasm stage was discovered. All around, it's just the best for reasons already mentioned. However, I find the scarlet team to be great for last spell unlocking and powering through spells, with the additional bonus of giving you your bomb back if Reimu's noncards clip you unexpectedly. Ghost team (or Youmu solo  :V) I find is simply the most fun, and not at all bad for trivializing stages and very decent at handling bosses. Poor Marisa and Alice though are mainly useful for spell practice on certain spells that just last too long otherwise (and don't want to feel like you are cheating with Youmu.) I just don't see any perks to these two other than sweet glow-stick rave effects with Alice solo's unfocused beam.

[AlexX Unlimited]

I guess i could rephrase my post: Went for some testing and i found the other teams to be less useful than Border Team because you need to practice the stages and memorize a lot in order to take advantage of their benefits.

Sakuya and Yuyuko require memorizing stages? Since when? o.0

Boss battles don't take all that much memorization either, unless you want to power through them with Magic team. Bosses either don't move much or always return to the center of the screen so, you can just leave Remilias bats there and focus on dodging while Yuyuko can do pretty much anything and be garunteed to always hit the boss due to her spread. Memorization only really comes into play when you wish to shotgun with her.

On the subject of Magic Team...

You know...that's a really cruddy outlook for ever using them.  I have to abuse a glitch in the game just to make them usable?

Is it even a glitch? Magic team is all about powering through everything and the Malice cannon reflects that... Was the trick in the IN demo?

[LHCling]

Sakuya and Yuyuko require memorizing stages? Since when? o.0

Sakuya, yes. Yuyuko, no. Take this from a person who has played IN Lunatic with the Scarlet Team and Yuyuko solo.

On the subject of Magic Team...Is it even a glitch? Magic team is all about powering through everything and the Malice cannon reflects that... Was the trick in the IN demo?

MAlice Cannon = "glitch". Sure, it seems pretty normal when you consider it's the strongest forward damaging source in the entire game by only a small amount. However, it's a "glitch" because it's not supposed to be a part of the game. You can use it to do ridiculous amounts (read 3x and more) of damage to bosses with familiars active. Hence you can do things like take out "Possessed by Phoenix", which are meant to be Survival Spell Cards. Various other Spell Cards have been known to end within seconds as well using this "glitch".

[theshirn]

On the subject of Magic Team...Is it even a glitch? Magic team is all about powering through everything and the Malice cannon reflects that... Was the trick in the IN demo?

When switching to youkai all human bullets are supposed to disappear and vice versa.  So yes, it's a glitch.  Malice Cannon is cheating, honestly; the fact that it's the only way IN is possible with them on higher difficulties simply reflects poor design as far as I'm concerned.

[AlexX Unlimited]

Hence you can do things like take out "Possessed by Phoenix", which are meant to be Survival Spell Cards.

Huh, I had absolutely no idea it could do that... I always assumed her familiars were just as invulnerable as she was during that attack, but a quick youtube search confirms it.

[Helepolis]

That is indeed quite funny. I noticed the familiars took damage when I was playing Extra myself the first time, but I had no idea Malice would destroy them. Blame ZUN for keeping familiar shot hitboxes in both modes ( focus and unfocus ).

[Zengeku]

Through a little more thorough testing i have found Netherworld Team to be quite awkward. Spread-shot when focused and forward-fire when non-focused?

That's just retarded. If i could just use Yuyuko for non-focused movement. That would be quite effective and Youmu and Myon could be awesome as focus characters.

Also, Youmu solo definitely needs micromemorization. The time it takes for Myon to adjust its position is outrageous and that's really all the benefit there is in her except for at bossfights.

[AlexX Unlimited]

Through a little more thorough testing i have found Netherworld Team to be quite awkward. Spread-shot when focused and forward-fire when non-focused?

That's just retarded. If i could just use Yuyuko for non-focused movement. That would be quite effective and Youmu and Myon could be awesome as focus characters.

Read the topic. If I can find ways to take advantage of this (me being one of the WORST players on this board) so can you.

Also, Youmu solo definitely needs micromemorization. The time it takes for Myon to adjust its position is outrageous and that's really all the benefit there is in her except for at bossfights.

What are you talking about? Myon isn't hard to adjust the position of unless you're at the extreme bottom/side of the screen and trying to reposition her from there (such as moving downward when already at the bottom of the screen to make her fire forward). Otherwise she immediately snaps into the opposite direction of where you're moving. Just focus to hold her position once she's there.

Furthermore, you don't need micromemorization, just spawn point memorization. Youmu can take out two enemy spawn points at once and enemies usually don't come out from more than two spawn points at once, so if you know whats coming its not hard at all to prepare.

[Helepolis]

That's just retarded. If i could just use Yuyuko for non-focused movement. That would be quite effective and Youmu and Myon could be awesome as focus characters.

That is the whole idea you know, make the game challanging by making Youmu non-focus char. It is the same like making Alice suddenly a nonfocus and Marisa focus.

It is not retarted it is just fair and challanging.

[theshirn]

I usually loathe the reverse focus-unfocus types, like MarisaA from SA, but honestly Youmu and Yuyuko are each overpowered enough that they make up for it.  Solo, things become more challenging, but that's due more to IN's gimmicks than anything else.

[Bananamatic]

Just went for a test. Anyone but Borderteam are useless. Including the scarlets.

This.
The other teams are way too gimmicky for practical use.

[theshirn]

This.
The other teams are way too gimmicky for practical use.

On my very very off days, I've come within 2 cards of 1ccing it on Hard with the Netherworld Team.  And by off, I mean multiple deaths on Reisen.

I call friggin' shenanigans on all of you.  :V

[Bananamatic]

On my very very off days, I've come within 2 cards of 1ccing it on Hard with the Netherworld Team.  And by off, I mean multiple deaths on Reisen.

I call friggin' shenanigans on all of you.  :V

The only cool stuff Netherworld team did for me was capturing Hourai Doll much faster than I've expected.
The rest of the teams is just rage and fail.

[theshirn]

The only cool stuff Netherworld team did for me was capturing Hourai Doll much faster than I've expected.
The rest of the teams is just rage and fail.

.........I'll be right back.

[Kanako Yasaka]

When I 1cc'd hard I did it with Yukari solo. I don't really know why.

I've since moved on to Remilia and Yuyuko solo.

(by the way does anyone have the vsync patch for IN?)

[Lybydose]

.........I'll be right back.

It doesn't really work in spell practice very well because you can't hit Mokou's wings in practice mode (on Hourai Doll only), but you can in the actual stage.

[Azinth]

The Netherworld Team works just fine.  It's just about learning how to control Youmu's option, and focus-tapping to keep it aligned forward.  The latter is especially useful for things like Asteroid Belt where the boss stays in one place.  You sacrifice some movement accuracy, but not that much; I can capture the aforementioned AB fairly consistently that way.  Plus, it's not like Yuyuko's damage is all that horrible (one of her butterfly streams does more damage than Ran by herself fyi).

You guys should try being real men and play outside your comfort zone once in a while.  It's a healthy thing to do.

[Esoterica]

The Netherworld Team works just fine.  It's just about learning how to control Youmu's option, and focus-tapping to keep it aligned forward.

The aggravating thing is, that doesn't work if you're playing Youmu solo.

[theshirn]

...so I meant to go and 1cc it on Hard, just to make the point.  Unfortunately, I'm playing possibly worse today than ever before, and it has nothing to do with the team.  Proof?  I ran into THREE FAIRIES on Stage 5.  I also screwed up every one of Marisa's attacks except Shoot the Moon, and didn't get the 800 point extend, much less the 1100 one, and I still almost beat Reisen.

[Lybydose]

I tried 1cc Lunatic with Nether Team to try and prove the point.....

Game Over on Hourai Jewel.  It would have worked if I hadn't died TWICE during Stage 6.  As in the stage portion.  The really easy stage portion.

[AlexX Unlimited]

This.
The other teams are way too gimmicky for practical use.

Do you people have that big an aversion to trying anything new?

Just because they're different does *NOT* mean they're useless.

[Sen]

This.
The other teams are way too gimmicky for practical use.

The only team I'd say actually has a "gimmick" is the Ghost Team in Myon and reverse focus/unfocus.

Border Team is the standard homing, Magic Team is just the straightforward type (it's not like you're forced to use MAlice Cannon or anything, and even if you do, you can't really use it and move well at the same time), and Scarlet Team is the same as MoF MarisaC, and look how well that turned out :V


A "gimmicky" shottype is like MoF MarisaA/ReimuC, or SA ReimuC/MarisaB.

[Bananamatic]

Do you people have that big an aversion to trying anything new?

Just because they're different does *NOT* mean they're useless.

I prefer having a slight spread unfocused and a strong forward shot while focused.
I DON'T want to turn the goddamn familiar around so I can do more damage.
I DON'T want to position the familiars under the boss so I don't shoot the air.

I want a STRAIGHT SHOT which does HUGE DAMAGE with no stupid distractions that make me clipdeath.

MarisaC makes me rage. Actually, anything except for ReimuB does.
Anything except for ReimuA in SA is useless.

NEEDLES REIMU IS THE BEST AND IF ZUN DOESN'T PUT HER INTO TH13 I WILL CUT OFF HIS BEER SUPPLY AND STEAL HIS HAT

[AlexX Unlimited]

I prefer having a slight spread unfocused and a strong forward shot while focused.

Yukari doesn't have a strong forward shot while focused, she's more like a slightly stronger Reimu.

I DON'T want to turn the goddamn familiar around so I can do more damage.

Talking Youmu solo or Youmu as part of Neitherworld team?

If solo, focus to lock Myon's position. If part of the team just tap the focus button to reset Myon.

I DON'T want to position the familiars under the boss so I don't shoot the air.

How the heck is this difficult in the least?

I want a STRAIGHT SHOT which does HUGE DAMAGE with no stupid distractions that make me clipdeath.

Border team is homing shots with medium damage. =V

MarisaC makes me rage. Actually, anything except for ReimuB does.

Oh, I see. You just suck at learning new things and prefer to just give up rather than actually give them a chance. That explains everything. =p

Anything except for ReimuA in SA is useless.

Nonsense, Reimu A in SA is just needlessly overpowered. The others are actually quite reasonable.

NEEDLES REIMU IS THE BEST AND IF ZUN DOESN'T PUT HER INTO TH13 I WILL CUT OFF HIS BEER SUPPLY AND STEAL HIS HAT

If he has a Suwako hat and access to Yukari's alcohol storage he can probably deal. =V