Author Topic: Touhou Project 17 「東方鬼形獣 ~ Wily Beast and Weakest Creature.」  (Read 72293 times)

Drake

  • *
Spoiler:
It looks like the extra boss is Kutaka. I knew she could do it. /o/
Spoiler:
she's the midboss

boss is a pegasus and her name has two horse kanji in it

A Colorful Calculating Creative and Cuddly Crafty Callipygous Clever Commander
- original art by Aiけん | ウサホリ -


Spoiler:
also she?s apparently Miko?s mount

Lebon14

  • 椛ちゃん、助けてぇぇぇぇぇ!
Spoiler:
also she?s apparently Miko?s mount

Spoiler:
I think it's *implied* though.

nintendonut888

  • So those that live now, pledge on your fists and souls
  • Leave a sign of your life, no matter how small...
One big gameplay thing I've picked up on from the videos I'm seeing:
Spoiler:
ZUN reverted the power loss from dying to 0.50 power, instead of the full 1.00 power you lost in the demo. That's a relief.

Also the music in this game is so good. The final boss theme in particular is a real stunner.
nintendonut888: Hey Baity. I beat the high score for Sanae B hard on the score.dat you sent me. X3
Baity: For a moment, I thought you broke 1.1billion. Upon looking at my score.dat, I can assume that you destroyed the score that is my failed (first!) 1cc attempt on my first day of playing. Congratulations.

[19:42] <Sapz> I think that's the only time I've ever seen a suicide bullet shoot its own suicide bullet

Helepolis

  • Charisma!
  • *
  • O-ojousama!?
Love you people for immediately using the spoiler tags for marking the spoilers. Awesome!

As you might have noticed dear citizens of Shrinemaiden, Toho 17 is officially released today. As you also have noticed people are using spoiler tags. Please use them to avoid unfun situations. We will keep this no-spoiler mode up for several days. Thank you in advance.

Cheers.

nintendonut888

  • So those that live now, pledge on your fists and souls
  • Leave a sign of your life, no matter how small...
One last thing to note before bed, since this is something some might not realize since it's buried in the omake file:
Spoiler:
You can view any endings you've unlocked by going to the achievements page and hitting shoot while highlighting the achievement that says you cleared with such and such shot type. It seems ZUN intends for this to be a standard feature from now on, too. That'll be a great relief for those who want to study endings/not have to clear every time they want to see them.
nintendonut888: Hey Baity. I beat the high score for Sanae B hard on the score.dat you sent me. X3
Baity: For a moment, I thought you broke 1.1billion. Upon looking at my score.dat, I can assume that you destroyed the score that is my failed (first!) 1cc attempt on my first day of playing. Congratulations.

[19:42] <Sapz> I think that's the only time I've ever seen a suicide bullet shoot its own suicide bullet

CyberAngel

  • Retired
Could only listen to other people's streams so far, but hoo boy. Haven't heard something this ear-grating in a long time. The themes range from generic trash to absolute cacophony. And when some actual melodies try to surface they're just drowned out by the monotone grind of the rest of that dissonant intrument set.
Spoiler:
And then there are out-of-place remixes.
I'd compare all this to a fangame OST but that would be an insult to what fangame music can do.

And before someone responds with "haters just hate new stuff because it's new" AGAIN - I had no such beef with music of any main releases that I've witnessed. I do see all the effort that went into it but ZUN's direction led it straight into uncanny valley this time. If he was experimenting with composition or something then that experiment utterly failed. Also, this is purely about music, I can't really judge anything else yet. Actually, the patterns look pretty fun and creative, definitely a step up from the more generic stuff in 16. But music... just no. You can only like it if you have never heard anything better, and if you're a Touhou fan then you definitely have.

7TC7

  • In best company
You can only like it if you have never heard anything better, and if you're a Touhou fan then you definitely have.

That's the only thing I'm gonna disagree with, because the rest is just opinion.

The music in this game is definitely going in a different direction from the usual (at least in some cases, not even all) and personally, I can see why someone would dislike it. However, I really like everything that happens music wise in the second half of the game. The beginning of Stage 4 especially gave me a similar power surge/feeling of fear to my first time hearing Clownpiece theme kick on.
Spoiler:
And in regards to the musical influences taken, I loved them all the way through.

Further, I really enjoy the background artwork this time around, not to mention the characters designs. Quite a handful of weird species that I look forward to getting to know more about.
< picture leads to my YouTube channel

Kirin no Sora

  • Wanderer of Gensokyo
  • I have returned from the nothingness once more...
Spoiler:
Figure that I say something since I heard that the stage 4 boss, Kitcho Yachie, might be a kirin. Can anyone confirm this?
There is no greater joy than knowing that the Touhou invasion is unstoppable, and the legacy of Gensokyo will never fade away...

7TC7

  • In best company
Spoiler:
Figure that I say something since I heard that the stage 4 boss, Kitcho Yachie, might be a kirin. Can anyone confirm this?

Spoiler:
She is a Jidiao, which is a Dragon Turtle.
< picture leads to my YouTube channel

Kirin no Sora

  • Wanderer of Gensokyo
  • I have returned from the nothingness once more...
Spoiler:
She is a Jidiao, which is a Dragon Turtle.

Spoiler:
Oh, I see. Then a Kirin has still yet to appear, then. (Rin Satsuki is safe for now...)
There is no greater joy than knowing that the Touhou invasion is unstoppable, and the legacy of Gensokyo will never fade away...

7TC7

  • In best company
Random observation, but ZUN sure made a confusing decision when he made the cover art this time, by
Spoiler:
putting three characters on it for no reason, without any way of picking them apart. It's Yachie, Keiki and Saki, right? Or is Mayumi also in there somewhere?
< picture leads to my YouTube channel

CyberAngel

  • Retired
That's the only thing I'm gonna disagree with, because the rest is just opinion.

Fair enough.

Had a chance to look at the game a bit more (geez, there are already Lunatic clears out there, you people) and I do have to say I still can't shake off the feeling that most of boss patterns remind me of stuff we've already seen before. But I wouldn't say that's a bad thing since they vary things quite a bit in interesting ways.
Spoiler:
And I find the twist with the final patterns pretty great. It's like a complete opposite of HSiFS.

Other than that, really looking forward to story translation. Also, the Extra boss is
Spoiler:
a Big Black Cock. Live with it.

R. P. Genocraft

  • Craftsman of absolute unpredictability
  • Boundary of productive and lazy
Other than that, really looking forward to story translation. Also, the Extra boss is
Spoiler:
a Big Black Cock. Live with it.
Even better than that, she's
Spoiler:
a big black horse cock
.

Suspicious person

  • Just a humble wanderer
  • How suspicious~
With how the extra boss turned out to be, I believe I am legally entitled to a fanart depicting
Spoiler:
Napoleon crossing the Alps, featuring Miko riding Saki
, thank you very much

Haven't got a proper chance to have a go or at the game, but I like what I've seen on various videos so far  :)

Also, the Extra boss is
Spoiler:
a Big Black Cock. Live with it.
Actually is
Spoiler:
a pegasus. Still rideable tho  :V

music sucks ass, yo
To be fair, an orderly or a melodic track would not necessarily manage to capture the chaotic atmosphere of Hell. ZUN always made sure the track captured the feel of the locations you're at, shows how HIS interpretation about what the atmosphere of such or such place would be, and express it in his track, and WBaWC is no exception. The eerie, creepy and lonely tracks you hear in the early game (along with stage 5), while stage 4 and extra (the ones I assume you're criticizing) got how ZUN conceives a proper Hell vibe.
« Last Edit: August 12, 2019, 03:04:36 PM by Suspicious person »

Has anyone already extracted music from the game?
Easy: PoDD, FW, LoLK
Normal: SoEW, UFO, HSiFS
Hard: LLS, MS, EoSD, PoFW, MoF, SA, TD, DDC
Lunatic: PCB, IN
Extra: EoSD, PCB, IN, MoF, TD, DDC, HSiFS; Phantasm

it's a legit Touhou right here. with TH16 i felt that ZUN was holding back on the boss themes, and in no way do i get that impression in this game anymore.

a very memorable, very 'Touhou' sort of moment is
Spoiler:
discovering a city in the depths of hell, then when the music picks up, seeing the whole vista in front of you
. And
Spoiler:
how the final boss fight happens when flying around the city with its recognizable landmarks
. That sort of audiovisual choreography is the key to what makes Touhou games appealing and unique, imo.
check http://vsoft.life/ for runs & creations
latest stream: Hollow Song of Birds Hard 1cc (OrangeReimu) @ https://youtu.be/eDFd4FHEjXg

The Steam version releases in exactly one month. Will play it then.

Gotta resist the urge to uncover spoiler tags.

You can only like it if you have never heard anything better, and if you're a Touhou fan then you definitely have.
Hey, look, it's CyberAngel being toxic again! I'm currently listening the music and I like it. And I'm also a long running Touhou fan. So go back to 4chan Mr "I hate everything new because I'm very edgy!"
« Last Edit: August 12, 2019, 08:07:29 PM by MrNoobomnenie »

Helepolis

  • Charisma!
  • *
  • O-ojousama!?
Yo, let us refrain from getting personal with these type of aggressive posts. If you disagree with someone else's opinion that is fine. If you have counter arguments provide them.

someone else's opinion
When someone says "If you like it, you're an idiot" it's not an opinion - it's an insult.

7TC7

  • In best company
When someone says "If you like it, you're an idiot" it's not an opinion - it's an insult.

But he never did that, though? He over generalized, and that has been pointed out. It's not unthinkable to dislike the music in this or any other touhou game. People have differing tastes.

---

On another topic, the art of
Spoiler:
Saki
confuses me on multiple levels and even looking at her sprites during battle doesn't give me a clear answer.
Spoiler:
First of all, does she only have one arm? Is there anything in her profile or dialogue hinting towards that? And second, does she have a long ponytail hairstyle that goes down her back and swishes out the (on the artwork) left side? I know the hair on the right side must be her actual tail, but the way the hair is angled around her neck and behind her back, it seems to go all the way down to that part on the left?
< picture leads to my YouTube channel

It's not unthinkable to dislike the music in this or any other touhou game. People have differing tastes.
I'm not against other people's tastes, I'm against the insulting ways to provide them. There's a BIG differense between "I personaly don't like the music in the new game and think, that previous ZUN's tracks were much better" and "The music in the new game fucking sucks! The ones, who like it, have shitty musical taste!" The first one is an opinion and the second one is either an insult or a direct trolling.
« Last Edit: August 12, 2019, 08:49:48 PM by MrNoobomnenie »

My first impression of the new music was not very positive, but listening to it in the music room without having my attention constantly distracted by bullet swarms, I find myself liking it a lot. Beast Metropolis is really outstanding. The final boss's theme is the only one I felt was a let-down -- it doesn't have anything like the epic quality we got from Shinmyoumaru or Okina, for example.

Does anyone have a translation for the hints for achievements 37 through 40?
« Last Edit: August 12, 2019, 11:25:56 PM by Mikuru »

You and I experienced exact opposite perceptions of the OST. Touhou 16's OST was exceedingly disappointing for me personally, with the only tolerable song being the menu theme, so I expected similar results with 17, which, to a degree, happened, with a few songs appealing to me. The one that was most unique and appealed to my sensibilities being the final boss theme, due to the dramatic opening and the extremely catchy melody that appears in the second half. It fully rivals Junko's theme in terms of fulfillment I've had with it.

Interesting, Sukuna and Okina's both are my two least favorite Windows Era boss themes due to lack of intensity.

ZoomyTsugumi

  • zoom zoom
Does anyone have a translation for the hints for achievements 37 through 40?
Secret tokens for the rest of the midbosses are obtained by:
Spoiler:
Stage 4: Grazing 10 bullets right before killing the midboss (4 on Easy)
Stage 5: Having at least 4 animal tokens flying around when you kill the midboss
Stage 6:  Killing the midboss just after breaking a hyper (either via getting hit or manually cancelling is fine)
Extra stage: Capture the 3rd midboss spell without going above the midboss.

Timing for the ones that involve doing something just before killing the midboss seems to be very strict just fyi, I'd estimate it's less than half a second, so it's very trial and error.

Also the OST is totally banging in this game so I'm happy with it.

WBaWC is fun. Nice dense patterns, even on Normal.
I'm on the side that actually likes the music, it's fun to hear ZUN experiment with different instruments.
Playing Touhou since 18 March 2012. Playing video games since 19XX.
Normal 1CC: EoSD, PCB, IN, PoFV, MoF, SA, UFO, TD, DDC, HSiFS, CtC.
Extra 1CC: EoSD, PCB+Phantasm, IN, PoFV (K&S), MoF, SA, TD, HSiFS, CtC+Phantasm.
Hard 1CC: EoSD, PCB, IN, MoF, TD, CtC.
Lunatic 1CC: EoSD

Suspicious person

  • Just a humble wanderer
  • How suspicious~
Spoiler:
So, from my shallow understanding of the plot, we're essentially working to crush the peasant uprising and halt that filthy industrial revolution, all for the benefit of organised crime gangs, who pocketed and manipulated us into it. Cool. 10/10, would work against the interest of humanity again

Spoiler:
Also the zootopia fairies over there at stage 5 seems to have animal ears and horns. Neato little detail for our fairy friends
« Last Edit: August 13, 2019, 03:31:08 PM by Suspicious person »

Spoiler:
we're essentially working to crush the peasant uprising and halt that filthy industrial revolution, all for the benefit of organised crime gangs, who pocketed and manipulated us into it. Cool. 10/10, would work against the interest of humanity again
Spoiler:
It's even worse. They were not peasants, but slaves and livestock. Human spirits have summoned a god, who protected them from ruthless animal spirits and have built basically a utopian society (ZUN can call at "dystopia", but the world, where humans don't need to do anything and don't need to fear anything, called "utopia" no matter what). And then comes our protaganists, who completely destroyed all of this in favor of yakuza gangs. Another proof, that there's no justice in Touhou world. #KeikiDidNothingWrong

Spoiler:
Oh, and Clarste is defending this actions. Like there already were not enought evidence, that he is not a good person.
« Last Edit: August 13, 2019, 04:57:00 PM by MrNoobomnenie »

nintendonut888

  • So those that live now, pledge on your fists and souls
  • Leave a sign of your life, no matter how small...
Spoiler:
I'm still waiting on everything to be translated, but from my understanding, the conflict is more grey than that. While Keiki did wrest control from the animal spirits, she's not really much of a savior. In practice, she and her army of statues just took over power for themselves, and the human spirits have no real agency under her rule, little different from how things were before. The animal spirit accompanying the heroines is even enraged that Keiki destroyed the garden of nature and beauty they crafted as a safe zone for the human spirits, instead turning it into a massive tomb for her to live alone in. The descriptions even say that if left unchecked, Keiki will likely end up completely destroying the animal realm and leave it uninhabitable to anyone.

So in essence, while it's true all the heroines are doing is restoring the status quo and protecting Gensokyo, it's not like they're helping the villains. The animal spirits want to protect their home and way of life, and Keiki, while likely seeing herself as a good person, is likely just securing her own base of power at the expense of those who prayed to her for salvation. In the end, the only obvious truth is that the human spirits of the animal realm are the ones losing in the end.
nintendonut888: Hey Baity. I beat the high score for Sanae B hard on the score.dat you sent me. X3
Baity: For a moment, I thought you broke 1.1billion. Upon looking at my score.dat, I can assume that you destroyed the score that is my failed (first!) 1cc attempt on my first day of playing. Congratulations.

[19:42] <Sapz> I think that's the only time I've ever seen a suicide bullet shoot its own suicide bullet