Author Topic: Two main Touhou games announced for Steam release!  (Read 37393 times)

Quwanti

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Re: Two main Touhou games announced for Steam release!
« Reply #120 on: November 21, 2017, 11:50:35 AM »
So over 10.000 people appear to have bought the game already, which is great! I think this is definitely a success. Really hoping for the new fighter and Danmaku Amanojaku releasing on steam in the future.

Re: Two main Touhou games announced for Steam release!
« Reply #121 on: November 21, 2017, 12:29:43 PM »
Do we have any idea what kind of expectations ZUN had for this release and/or how well Playsim sold compared to 10k?

We might see this as a success but for all we know ZUN expected double :V (even though I doubt that, ZUN seems like a down-to-earth kind of guy to me)

Drake

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Re: Two main Touhou games announced for Steam release!
« Reply #122 on: November 21, 2017, 12:34:51 PM »
10000 copies is routinely how much ZUN seems to press for main releases at events (3000 for demos). Hitting that is unambiguously a success.

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Re: Two main Touhou games announced for Steam release!
« Reply #123 on: November 21, 2017, 05:16:43 PM »
Quote
10000 copies is routinely how much ZUN seems to press for main releases at events (3000 for demos). Hitting that is unambiguously a success.

Well then, that's a good sign.  I'm not expecting anything else coming to Steam until spring next year at least however.
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Re: Two main Touhou games announced for Steam release!
« Reply #124 on: November 22, 2017, 02:58:39 AM »
Well, you figure Steamspy has it at ~16k copies sold. 16,000 x 14.99 = $239,840. After Steam's 30% cut is taken out, that's still ~$168k. I would think that is a very nice amount of money for ZUN.
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Drake

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Re: Two main Touhou games announced for Steam release!
« Reply #125 on: November 22, 2017, 03:26:35 AM »
It's best to take a conservative estimate on the lower side of the confidence interval, especially since 10k sales isn't enough of a sample size to produce a precise result, as even stated by the developers.

Also a friendly statistics reminder that a using a 98% confidence interval does not imply that there is a 98% probability of the true total sales number being within that interval, even if it seems very reasonable to make that conclusion.
« Last Edit: November 22, 2017, 04:00:18 AM by Drake »

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Re: Two main Touhou games announced for Steam release!
« Reply #126 on: November 23, 2017, 03:39:19 PM »
Well, you figure Steamspy has it at ~16k copies sold. 16,000 x 14.99 = $239,840.
This calculation has no sense, because the game is actually has a different price in the different countries. For an example, in Russia it costs only 360 rubles (~6$).

myon

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Re: Two main Touhou games announced for Steam release!
« Reply #127 on: November 23, 2017, 04:10:50 PM »
This calculation has no sense, because the game is actually has a different price in the different countries. For an example, in Russia it costs only 360 rubles (~6$).

In addition, also consider that Valve takes a certain percentage from each sale. The devs and publishers do not receive the full payment.

Re: Two main Touhou games announced for Steam release!
« Reply #128 on: November 23, 2017, 04:50:07 PM »
Would still make him at least a 100k though. Don't know if that's profit or not though, since I don't really know his production cost.

Re: Two main Touhou games announced for Steam release!
« Reply #129 on: November 23, 2017, 05:11:39 PM »
http://steamcommunity.com/games/745880/announcements/detail/1459592783024629623

Uploading and/or Streaming any endings after Stage 6 and the Music Room music is now prohibited.

Incredibly stupid and outright weird decision? ZUN seems fine with people selling touhou fangames, 3d figures, prints etc. yet streaming the Extra Stage ending is off the charts?

I seriously doubt they'll go through with this but this isnt a direction I wanted Touhou to go in with the Steam Release.

Re: Two main Touhou games announced for Steam release!
« Reply #130 on: November 23, 2017, 05:27:36 PM »
Isn't that part of ZUN's terms of use? It seems like they just want it to be enforced.

Re: Two main Touhou games announced for Steam release!
« Reply #131 on: November 23, 2017, 05:31:36 PM »
It's a thing from like forever, really. It's kinda like a badge of pride/full experience thing.

nintendonut888

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Re: Two main Touhou games announced for Steam release!
« Reply #132 on: November 23, 2017, 05:32:01 PM »
http://steamcommunity.com/games/745880/announcements/detail/1459592783024629623

Uploading and/or Streaming any endings after Stage 6 and the Music Room music is now prohibited.

Incredibly stupid and outright weird decision? ZUN seems fine with people selling touhou fangames, 3d figures, prints etc. yet streaming the Extra Stage ending is off the charts?

I seriously doubt they'll go through with this but this isnt a direction I wanted Touhou to go in with the Steam Release.

ZUN has always had a rule against showing endings, especially in video form. If you go on Nicovideo and look up streams, you will find that the vast majority of streamers shut off the footage during the endings. IIRC he wishes for the endings to be a reward for a successful 1cc, which is why he's placed a general prohibition on them. I'm pretty sure this only refers to the endings that play after the final boss is defeated, so everything in extra is fine.
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Re: Two main Touhou games announced for Steam release!
« Reply #133 on: November 23, 2017, 05:37:29 PM »
ZUN has always had a rule against showing endings, especially in video form. If you go on Nicovideo and look up streams, you will find that the vast majority of streamers shut off the footage during the endings. IIRC he wishes for the endings to be a reward for a successful 1cc, which is why he's placed a general prohibition on them. I'm pretty sure this only refers to the endings that play after the final boss is defeated, so everything in extra is fine.

This is news to me.

In all honesty Im mostly confuzzled about prohibiting the uploads of Music? Touhou isnt known for it's Story or characters (atleast in the West) but for it's music. Cutting that off Youtube is essentially shooting yourself directly into the foot, as it cuts off the Number one "How I found out about 2hu".

myon

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Re: Two main Touhou games announced for Steam release!
« Reply #134 on: November 23, 2017, 05:39:04 PM »
It's moreso posting the music and video footage on Steam that can net you trouble from the community management for HSiFS. I don't think they're gonna launch an attack on the songs uploaded onto Youtube.

Re: Two main Touhou games announced for Steam release!
« Reply #135 on: November 23, 2017, 05:39:56 PM »
It's only the showing of the Music Room that's forbidden though. The music itself is fine, and you could find all of the stage and boss music of Touhou pretty easily anyway.

myon

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Re: Two main Touhou games announced for Steam release!
« Reply #136 on: November 23, 2017, 05:41:11 PM »
It's only the showing of the Music Room that's forbidden though. The music itself is fine, and you could find all of the stage and boss music of Touhou pretty easily anyway.

Right, probably due to avoiding spoilers in general. Since there's already a spoiler warning in the music room and all.

Re: Two main Touhou games announced for Steam release!
« Reply #137 on: November 23, 2017, 05:42:12 PM »
Well, the rule exist since forever, but judging from initial comment, it's look like new audience isn't used to this kind of thing.

Re: Two main Touhou games announced for Steam release!
« Reply #138 on: November 23, 2017, 05:47:03 PM »
Well, the rule exist since forever, but judging from initial comment, it's look like new audience isn't used to this kind of thing.

People are used to big boy companies shutting down Youtube videos and streams, people associate this with exactly that.

Also Steam screenshots quite literally have a spoiler function...

Re: Two main Touhou games announced for Steam release!
« Reply #139 on: November 23, 2017, 06:27:26 PM »
People are used to big boy companies shutting down Youtube videos and streams, people associate this with exactly that.

Also Steam screenshots quite literally have a spoiler function...

I like the idea of ZUN being a big boy company, lol. This is just a personal request from him, I imagine.

Drake

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Re: Two main Touhou games announced for Steam release!
« Reply #140 on: November 23, 2017, 10:49:17 PM »
This is just a personal request from him, I imagine.
This is how he's always operated. I think it'll be extremely funny if this is actually enforced at all.

Part of the perceived level of sternness is due to the language of "prohibit" and whatnot, which while meaning the same in Japanese, the flavour it imparts is essentially "I am not allowing you to do this" rather than "you're going to jail". This is the same kind of text you'd find on any other doujin work forbidding unauthorized reproduction and so on.

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Re: Two main Touhou games announced for Steam release!
« Reply #141 on: November 24, 2017, 07:10:53 AM »
It isn't just official Touhou games that's affected by the "do not spoil the ending" rule.
Fangames also have the streamers (usually) cut off their streaming immediately before the ending. Heck, even games that are directly inspired by Touhou (Seihou, Nansei, Barrage Musical, and even Len'En) have their respective fandoms respect the rule with utmost seriousness.
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Re: Two main Touhou games announced for Steam release!
« Reply #142 on: November 24, 2017, 07:40:08 AM »
Western gamers are quick to forget games like Persona 5 where Atlus pretty much banned anything past a certain in-game time... Which pretty much amount to the same thing with Touhou but only the endings and music room.

Do I agree with it? No, and I never did. But if people want to respect it, that's okay. Also, people need to realize that you can see all endings by reading the translation patches......... Which is helpful for people like me that aren't into the games.

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Re: Two main Touhou games announced for Steam release!
« Reply #143 on: November 25, 2017, 12:47:32 PM »
Friendly reminder that information regarding spoiler-related content is readily available on the internet - for example, do a quick search on Touhou endings on YouTube. It is pointless to even try and enforce such rules.

The posting and viewing of spoilers, as long as it is marked, is fine imo. This should be up to the viewers' discretion - it is all on you if you decide to step into spoiler-related territory. If you are clicking a video titled "Touhou 16 Endings", the title alone should be telling of what is in it before you even click it. It should not be to the extent of being prohibited to show spoilers even if specific viewers wishes to spoil themselves. This was something that made zero sense to me when I got into Touhou.

Most people who I know don't really care about endings etc. in the first place. At least, that's the case when I saw Twitch/YouTube streams. It probably is exactly what you described for Niconico streams though.

I'd understand a first-day no-spoiler policy rule, but after that, there's no point.
« Last Edit: November 25, 2017, 12:49:25 PM by Satori Komeijist »
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Drake

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Re: Two main Touhou games announced for Steam release!
« Reply #144 on: November 25, 2017, 02:43:59 PM »
1) Discussing endings is fine, it's the contents that are requested to not be posted. Why post the contents of the endings when you can already discuss it, especially under spoiler tags? In the same vein, because similar arguments are used, why would anyone need to stream the music room? The one requiring the most effort to avoid is streaming endings, and even that's trivial with at least OBS.

2) This will in all likelihood not be enforced (if so, minimally), and it shouldn't have to be. We as a community should be able to police ourselves with a decent level of respect.

3) Saying that you can already find the ending contents isn't a reason to further enable the spread of it. Trying to get rid of all instances everywhere has never been the point (and similarly for music room uploads). This argument without any further depth applies equally well to e.g. piracy, where because you can easily find it already there's no use in trying to stop it anywhere, which is obviously silly. In fact, I think having the endings being available to find elsewhere already is a good reason for trying to prevent its spread, as the fact that you can find it if you want should be enough for anyone interested, and nothing further is ever necessary.
« Last Edit: November 25, 2017, 04:58:14 PM by Drake »

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Sedrife

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Re: Two main Touhou games announced for Steam release!
« Reply #145 on: December 06, 2017, 08:21:16 AM »
There's an important update regarding ZUN's stance towards launching Touhou derivative work on Steam.

The update happened on Touhou Station Nico Nico Live that happened on December 2nd.

Link: http://live.nicovideo.jp/gate/lv308906910

ZUN has personally explained his new stance of Touhou derivative games launching in steam and elsewhere with four simple slides. 

This is to affirm and clarify the interview content when ZUN launched Hidden Star in Four Seasons on Steam (http://jp.ign.com/tohotenkusho/19395/news/steamzunproject)
Q: Then, if there are Touhou dervative circles willing, Steam release is possible?
ZUN: I'll let them decide on that. From my side, there are no problems.


Slide 1: https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DQWOcGhXkAA-ttd.jpg
"In regards to Selling Touhou Derivative Games Online"
Date - 2017, December 2nd


Slide 2: https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DQWOf8xXkAAU4T0.jpg
"If Touhou Derivative Games are sold through Steam"
  • Case 1: You sell the game on your own by registering the software on Steam
Advantage: You can manage everything yourself
Disadvantage: You need to manage everything yourself (ex. how to deal with taxes, submitting forms to Valve, etc. etc.)
  • Case 2: You sell the game through publishers recognized by Team Shanghai Alice
Advantage 1: Publishers can handle all the petty jobs
Advantage 2: ZUN gets a share of your money (managed by the publishers)
Disadvantage: Due to demands of the publishers, some of your requests may not be met

Slide 3: https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DQWPNnvXUAAAvxw.jpg
"If Touhou Derivative Games are sold online other than Steam"
  • Have your circle register your games individually.
  • Do not sell your games in bundle, whether commercially or indie.
  • Any troubles that may arise is your own to solve.

Slide 4: https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DQWPZ0xX4AMhXBY.jpg
"What about selling derivatives other than games online?"
  • Please wait warmly.

This probably requires update on other threads like https://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php?topic=17915.0 and https://en.touhouwiki.net/wiki/Touhou_Wiki:Copyrights
« Last Edit: December 06, 2017, 08:31:50 AM by Sedrife »

Drake

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Re: Two main Touhou games announced for Steam release!
« Reply #146 on: December 06, 2017, 10:37:06 AM »
Also see: https://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,21175.0.html

I agree those places will need updating at some point, but I think both need some revamping in general. The thread on Touhou derivative and doujin creation basically needs a whole rewrite because as-is it's not very clear; meanwhile it's come to my attention that putting the fanbase's main connection to the derivative guideline translation in the wiki's copyright section of all things makes no sense and needs to be more visible, at minimum being its own page, but probably more could be done. Both of these changes require a significant amount of effort though.

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N-Forza

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Re: Two main Touhou games announced for Steam release!
« Reply #147 on: December 06, 2017, 12:31:12 PM »
Please wait warmly.
Do I even have to say it?

WishMakers

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Re: Two main Touhou games announced for Steam release!
« Reply #148 on: December 06, 2017, 06:19:08 PM »
lol @ N-Forza

This is pretty promising stuff however.  I'm not sure how many Western fan-games, if any at all, will take advantage of this route (I always figured I would consider it if it became a possibility) but it certainly brings along some interesting possibilities, like ido games and the like (are they sold?  I was never really sure.  This example may not apply)

I'm glad the guidelines had some revisions, however, even if they are small.  I'm in agreement that the whole thread pertaining the derivative guidelines on MotK should be made at least a bit clearer if possible, last time I read them I didn't know them fully, and have made my fair share of mistakes regarding them.
Return of Eastern Wonderland! Made by a PC-98 fan FOR fans!
1ccs: SoEW (N), LLS (N), MS (N), EoSD (N, H), PCB (N), IN (N, H), PoFV (N, 5 char), MoF (N), SA (N), UFO (N), TD (N), DDC (N), LoLK (N), HSiFS (E, N, L), WBaWC (N)
Extra: EoSD, PCB, IN, PoFV, MoF, HSiFS, WBaWC
Scoring: HSiFS Easy (PB: 1.1b), Barrage Musical Hard (PB: 28.?b)

Re: Two main Touhou games announced for Steam release!
« Reply #149 on: December 07, 2017, 07:12:22 PM »
Slide 2: https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DQWOf8xXkAAU4T0.jpg
"If Touhou Derivative Games are sold through Steam"
  • Case 1: You sell the game on your own by registering the software on Steam
Advantage: You can manage everything yourself
Disadvantage: You need to manage everything yourself (ex. how to deal with taxes, submitting forms to Valve, etc. etc.)

So how's this work?

If I had a Touhou fangame, would I just need to submit it to Valve, and then it'd free for anyone to buy as if it was any other game and ZUN wouldn't do anything about it? (or at least as long as I don't do something really stupid like claiming the intellectual property is mine and stuff)