Author Topic: Yen Press licenses Touhou Suzunaan ~ Forbidden Scrollery  (Read 37515 times)

Re: Yen Press licenses Touhou Suzunaan ~ Forbidden Scrollery
« Reply #180 on: November 10, 2017, 10:43:15 PM »
If that is the case, then I guess so. My concern in that case comes with consistency. Like if her title specifically uses shaman, should any mention of shrine maiden/miko be translated as shaman, or as shrine maiden? Is that one mention of shaman meant to be the official translation of just one-time quirk?

That's an interesting question. Some of them are clearly just translations of their normal titles, like Magician and Maid, while others like Disguiser are more whimsical. It's not entirely clear, but I do think Shaman must show up as the translation of 巫女 in some common Japanese-English dictionaries because it shows up pretty regularly if you look for it.

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Re: Yen Press licenses Touhou Suzunaan ~ Forbidden Scrollery
« Reply #181 on: November 10, 2017, 10:55:52 PM »
Meanwhile, Clastre in his Tumblr has been started to directly insulting the ones, who don't agree with him. So, if you don't like "Hiedano", but like "Flandre" and "Maribel", you're "an asshole" now.
That's exactly how I felt reading Clarste in the last two days. I felt the same way which prompted me to write the comment below:
I feel like I'm being shamed by people for not purchasing this tome over the translation mistakes / translation choices used by Yen Press.

Re: Yen Press licenses Touhou Suzunaan ~ Forbidden Scrollery
« Reply #182 on: November 10, 2017, 11:03:23 PM »
Well, the original point was just "why are people suddenly so pedantic about Hiedano when Flandre and Maribel have always been super-wrong and no one cares?" Followed by a huge amount of discussion of why exactly they're wrong because I think I overestimated how common-knowledge that was. I've repeatedly said that you can prefer whatever name you want, but if you're trying to argue based on what's more "accurate" then I do think it's pretty hypocritical to accept Maribel as a translation of マエリベリー. If you like Maribel better then just say that. Don't use your feelings as an excuse to ignore facts.

I've tried to be as polite as I can, but people are literally yelling at me about this.
« Last Edit: November 10, 2017, 11:26:06 PM by Clarste »

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Re: Yen Press licenses Touhou Suzunaan ~ Forbidden Scrollery
« Reply #183 on: November 10, 2017, 11:48:08 PM »
Off-site drama being dragged into this thread ends now, thanks.

While we're in the practice of ending things, martyr complexes can be 86ed as well.
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Re: Yen Press licenses Touhou Suzunaan ~ Forbidden Scrollery
« Reply #184 on: November 11, 2017, 12:26:55 AM »
Sorry.

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Re: Yen Press licenses Touhou Suzunaan ~ Forbidden Scrollery
« Reply #185 on: November 11, 2017, 08:54:27 AM »
I already preordered Volume 1 some time ago and am just looking forward to finally hold it in my hands and read it with my eyes. There might be mistakes in it, but as mentioned above, there are also mistakes in the fan-translations of ... everything touhou related? Going by how much discussion about translation comes up everytime a new game is released, that seems to be the case. They probably also discussed some things they weren't sure about and made a decision in the end. It might have been the wrong one, but they'll find out eventually. I am entirely positive about this for now - at least until I read it and am proven wrong, but in that case I just won't get V2 and/or give feedback if thats possible (it has been mentioned a few times above, but I don't know how I'd go about contacting them)?

Personally I am happy they are going at this without looking up the fan-translated stuff first. That would be playing Easy Mode. Let them put some work into it and find their own Touhou. Who knows, maybe they'll stumble about a better translation for something than what the fans did down the line.
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Re: Yen Press licenses Touhou Suzunaan ~ Forbidden Scrollery
« Reply #187 on: November 11, 2017, 09:18:52 AM »
Now I know animenewsnetwork doesn't have the best reputation for reviews, but they do bring up the sort of concerns you'd expect from a reader going in without Touhou knowledge. It's interesting to hear opinions like this, in my opinion.

But also irrelevant because I do have Touhou knowledge.

Re: Yen Press licenses Touhou Suzunaan ~ Forbidden Scrollery
« Reply #188 on: November 11, 2017, 10:13:52 AM »
Indeed, if you were to imagine someone not acquainted with touhou reading these, they'd certainly find a lot of things odd.  One of them even mentioned the excessive amount of Cameos, which, for us fans, are quite welcoming, but for those who don't know who those people are, they might think Girl X or Y are actually relevant to that chapter's plot.

Suffice it to say, I wonder if we'll have more 'pro' reviews of FS, because I'd love to hear the professional review of someone who actually is into Touhou and knows its' characters. 

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Re: Yen Press licenses Touhou Suzunaan ~ Forbidden Scrollery
« Reply #189 on: November 11, 2017, 10:33:31 AM »
I also can't help to wonder about this primarily because, in my opinion, Vol. 1 of Forbidden Scrollery is very weak. I feel like it does some good stuff well like establishing Kosuzu's personality a little but... even though people says she's the main character, I couldn't find myself able to agree. I felt like she came off as a reckless fool and, well, I think that's the idea but eventually it made her come off as obnoxious and the fact she kept on going didn't help even though there were some folks able to fix the problems. The fact there were little repercussions at first didn't help the matter. She also doesn't do much nor does she appear a whole lot. Early on I feel like Reimu and Marisa are more of the main characters which would be understandable if Kosuzu was the audience surrogate but... I don't think that particularly applies to her early on.

IMO Wild and Horned Hermit had a rocky start too but I feel it established Kasen as a main character more clearly as she was more present and involved in the things that were happening. I think Forbidden Scrollery started to shine once Vol. 3 showed up. I found the stories to be more interesting, the characterization to be much better and the use of Kosuzu to be way better. I didn't like the character personally at first but I felt she became far more likeable in general and I think it helps that she was involved in the chapters way more. In my opinion, The Skeptical Book Renter is one of the best Touhou canon stories ever because it strongly establish Kosuzu's identity... while also getting Akyuu to be more involved as she would become an important character too and there, she also strongly brings one of the the biggest themes of Forbidden Scrollery. It's also a surprisingly heartwarming chapter which makes it "fun" too even though it doesn't drop all the tension found in many of the chapters.

Still, if new readers grabs Vol. 1, I hope they'll enjoy it because I think it would allow them to enjoy how the book gradually gets better and better... which reminds me that it's kind of a shame that the conclusion is, or at least feels rushed but then again, personally, I liked the conclusion in term of what happened with Kosuzu.
« Last Edit: November 11, 2017, 10:44:38 AM by Jeremie »
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Re: Yen Press licenses Touhou Suzunaan ~ Forbidden Scrollery
« Reply #190 on: November 11, 2017, 10:04:06 PM »
I'm not familiar with this site...are those ratings out of 10?  If so...wow, that's not a great sign.
Even if that's not the case and it were out of 5 or something, that's pretty weak probably compared to other manga out there.  I don't know if the goal with Forbidden Scrollery was reach, but if it was, those reviews are not going to help people getting into Touhou for the first time.
I personally haven't read the manga but really want to, and I remember from some fan translations that Forbidden Scrollery seemed interesting, so I wonder what's the contributing factor here.
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Re: Yen Press licenses Touhou Suzunaan ~ Forbidden Scrollery
« Reply #191 on: November 11, 2017, 10:19:18 PM »
The ratings there are out of 5.

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Re: Yen Press licenses Touhou Suzunaan ~ Forbidden Scrollery
« Reply #192 on: November 13, 2017, 07:55:13 AM »
For the most part Forbidden Scrollery kind of works around Motoori instead of with her - especially in the later half, which while stronger definitely shoves Motoori really hard out of the spotlight.

Honestly speaking Forbidden Scrollery is really weak as a series even past volume 1, as is mostly just cameos/cute art/hype moments/world building. That's not to say I dislike it - in fact, I regard it highly, with context, but as its own independent entity it's extremely weak, even once it gets rolling. I wouldn't be surprised if later volumes review just as poorly. But as its own plot - it's basically a series of pointless build ups towards payoffs that never, and cannot (due to how the series is set up), happen.

Wild and Horned Hermit gets a little bit more leniency in this regard in my eyes since it does explore Kasen's character and give us a few surprise moments here and there, even if the pacing is still extremely awful. There's at least an attempt at a story (Kasen herself, namely) being told there, and Kasen's almost always at least involved. Forbidden Scrollery, on the other hand, seems even more obsessed with cameos and exploring world building than with trying to explore Motoori's story or even trying to involve her as time goes on, to the point where the conclusion to her personal story is very right field and anti-climactic. Again, I must stress this doesn't make it bad as a work with context, but without that context and on its own merits Forbidden Scrollery is very, very weak, even in later volumes.

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Re: Yen Press licenses Touhou Suzunaan ~ Forbidden Scrollery
« Reply #193 on: November 13, 2017, 08:07:52 AM »
For the most part Forbidden Scrollery kind of works around Motoori instead of with her - especially in the later half, which while stronger definitely shoves Motoori really hard out of the spotlight.

Honestly speaking Forbidden Scrollery is really weak as a series even past volume 1, as is mostly just cameos/cute art/hype moments/world building. That's not to say I dislike it - in fact, I regard it highly, with context, but as its own independent entity it's extremely weak, even once it gets rolling. I wouldn't be surprised if later volumes review just as poorly. But as its own plot - it's basically a series of pointless build ups towards payoffs that never, and cannot (due to how the series is set up), happen.

Wild and Horned Hermit gets a little bit more leniency in this regard in my eyes since it does explore Kasen's character and give us a few surprise moments here and there, even if the pacing is still extremely awful. There's at least an attempt at a story (Kasen herself, namely) being told there, and Kasen's almost always at least involved. Forbidden Scrollery, on the other hand, seems even more obsessed with cameos and exploring world building than with trying to explore Motoori's story or even trying to involve her as time goes on, to the point where the conclusion to her personal story is very right field and anti-climactic. Again, I must stress this doesn't make it bad as a work with context, but without that context and on its own merits Forbidden Scrollery is very, very weak, even in later volumes.

Just curious about this, but why are you referring to Kosuzu by her surname?
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Re: Yen Press licenses Touhou Suzunaan ~ Forbidden Scrollery
« Reply #194 on: November 13, 2017, 08:23:18 AM »
I think people just are all used to stories with one main goal and plot, with occasional characterizations in filler episodes, etc.

Touhou are the opposite of that trend. It builds the world and characters around several unrelated plots with no real coherent, big bad/organization menacing the main character/world and I think that's what make it so unappealing to unfamiliar readers. Of course, unless the sypnosis of the story tells them that it's going to be just a slice of life.

I guess those reviewer misunderstands FS to be about horror or Aesop-esque.

Re: Yen Press licenses Touhou Suzunaan ~ Forbidden Scrollery
« Reply #195 on: November 13, 2017, 08:45:41 AM »
ZUN's bad at writing stories. Just saying. I've read fan fics better written than FS/WaHH.

Of course even then those reviews are clearly poorly written. Literally any touhou fan will recognize who Sakuya is and why she's there. Same for Letty. The reviewers are just looking for a excuse to shit on the manga.

Also they dissed Moe's art. Screw that, her art is great.
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Re: Yen Press licenses Touhou Suzunaan ~ Forbidden Scrollery
« Reply #196 on: November 13, 2017, 09:03:43 AM »
ZUN's bad at writing stories. Just saying. I've read fan fics better written than FS/WaHH.

Tomatoes are not as sweet as oranges. That doesn't make them bad vegetables. It just means you're expecting the wrong thing from them. Just saying.

Of course even then those reviews are clearly poorly written. Literally any touhou fan will recognize who Sakuya is and why she's there. Same for Letty. The reviewers are just looking for a excuse to shit on the manga.

Touhou fans - yes. But they looked at it as complete newcomers that they are - which will be true for most of their readers as well. And frankly, Touhou mangas aren't that great as an entry point into the series, as people have said here already.

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Re: Yen Press licenses Touhou Suzunaan ~ Forbidden Scrollery
« Reply #197 on: November 13, 2017, 11:54:34 AM »
I guess one if biggest problems with the mangas when it comes to being read alone is when they specific reference the other games. For example in FS, chapters 10 and 11 requires to know what happened in HM to not be really lost on what characters are talking about, or who Kokoro really is. One of latest examples overall would be WaHH, where 40 and 41 set up so to speak the plot for HSiFS, and then 42 skips after the events of the game has concluded.

Re: Yen Press licenses Touhou Suzunaan ~ Forbidden Scrollery
« Reply #198 on: November 14, 2017, 05:17:01 AM »
For the most part Forbidden Scrollery kind of works around Motoori instead of with her - especially in the later half, which while stronger definitely shoves Motoori really hard out of the spotlight.

Honestly speaking Forbidden Scrollery is really weak as a series even past volume 1, as is mostly just cameos/cute art/hype moments/world building. That's not to say I dislike it - in fact, I regard it highly, with context, but as its own independent entity it's extremely weak, even once it gets rolling. I wouldn't be surprised if later volumes review just as poorly. But as its own plot - it's basically a series of pointless build ups towards payoffs that never, and cannot (due to how the series is set up), happen.

Wild and Horned Hermit gets a little bit more leniency in this regard in my eyes since it does explore Kasen's character and give us a few surprise moments here and there, even if the pacing is still extremely awful. There's at least an attempt at a story (Kasen herself, namely) being told there, and Kasen's almost always at least involved. Forbidden Scrollery, on the other hand, seems even more obsessed with cameos and exploring world building than with trying to explore Motoori's story or even trying to involve her as time goes on, to the point where the conclusion to her personal story is very right field and anti-climactic. Again, I must stress this doesn't make it bad as a work with context, but without that context and on its own merits Forbidden Scrollery is very, very weak, even in later volumes.

Tbh I agree with this. For what it is, I very much love and appreciate Forbidden Scrollery, and all the mangas for that matter. But aside from maybe the fairy ones, they clearly aren't meant to be read by themselves. They're supplemental to the games. ZUN uses them as a means of showcasing characters that otherwise wouldn't get much focus. He kind of has to do it this way. But if you're reading the mangas by themselves then they're kind of all over the place.

And you can't really expect a manga reviewer to get into the games. They have to review the book for the book, not for its place in the series. So I can understand why it might get a bad review.
« Last Edit: November 14, 2017, 05:48:48 AM by TresserT »
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Re: Yen Press licenses Touhou Suzunaan ~ Forbidden Scrollery
« Reply #199 on: November 14, 2017, 05:40:51 AM »
Well, at least Yen Press left "Youkai Books" and "Enenra" as is in their translations, at least in the panels shown in Anime News Network's review page.
Though I was kind of irked that their translation gives Marisa the exact same accent as everyone else (save Mamizou?).

Speaking of translation, how did Yen Press deal with the organ/organic farming pun that turned up in the first chapter?
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Re: Yen Press licenses Touhou Suzunaan ~ Forbidden Scrollery
« Reply #200 on: November 17, 2017, 04:51:47 PM »
Picked up my copy last night. Haven't really had time to look at it yet, but I can confirm that it is a book!
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Re: Yen Press licenses Touhou Suzunaan ~ Forbidden Scrollery
« Reply #201 on: November 21, 2017, 01:05:46 AM »

Pre-ordered on Amazon and the release date has been delayed twice. I wonder what that's all about...

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Re: Yen Press licenses Touhou Suzunaan ~ Forbidden Scrollery
« Reply #202 on: November 21, 2017, 04:38:40 AM »
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Re: Yen Press licenses Touhou Suzunaan ~ Forbidden Scrollery
« Reply #203 on: November 22, 2017, 12:04:22 AM »


Welp, so much for Hiedano.
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Re: Yen Press licenses Touhou Suzunaan ~ Forbidden Scrollery
« Reply #204 on: November 22, 2017, 01:10:34 AM »
It's Hieda in that instance and still Hiedano everywhere they use her name, which is exactly the kind of totally ass-backwards that I was warning about earlier. They have editor notes that say she is a reference to "Are Hiedano", which you literally will not get any results for when googling despite being a known figure. Amazing.


Also, to try and cut the flow before it spreads, while the book's translation credits ZephyrRz, more well known as Kafka-Fuura in these parts, they themselves assert that they did not translate the book. As they had previously done work with YP, their opinion seems to be that someone is using their name somehow after hands switched on an old project.

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Re: Yen Press licenses Touhou Suzunaan ~ Forbidden Scrollery
« Reply #205 on: November 22, 2017, 06:51:09 PM »
It's Hieda in that instance and still Hiedano everywhere they use her name, which is exactly the kind of totally ass-backwards that I was warning about earlier. They have editor notes that say she is a reference to "Are Hiedano", which you literally will not get any results for when googling despite being a known figure. Amazing.

Actually,  hilariously enough, when I google "Are Hiedano", I do get results...except it's because Google is actually smart enough to recognize I actually meant "Hieda No Are" and gives me wikipedia page with the correct name spelling in it.

Quote
Also, to try and cut the flow before it spreads, while the book's translation credits ZephyrRz, more well known as Kafka-Fuura in these parts, they themselves assert that they did not translate the book. As they had previously done work with YP, their opinion seems to be that someone is using their name somehow after hands switched on an old project.
Seems like it was a mistake from YP's side and are gonna fix it in later issues.
« Last Edit: November 24, 2017, 09:03:34 PM by Gpop »

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Re: Yen Press licenses Touhou Suzunaan ~ Forbidden Scrollery
« Reply #206 on: November 22, 2017, 08:46:06 PM »
That's a relief.

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Re: Yen Press licenses Touhou Suzunaan ~ Forbidden Scrollery
« Reply #207 on: November 23, 2017, 02:23:47 PM »
Up in the cold north of Europe, waiting for Amazon to deliver me vol. 1, Looking forward to finally having a physical copy in my possession.

Not too bothered by the Hiedano thing myself but it is clearly a really, really lazy mistake to make. Can't say I've seen 'no' been combined into one name anywhere else, so it's really weird. Hopefully with feedback that's not gonna happen for later prints/volume 2.

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Re: Yen Press licenses Touhou Suzunaan ~ Forbidden Scrollery
« Reply #208 on: November 23, 2017, 04:23:15 PM »
They've claimed that it's an intentional decision, and the fact that they use "Are Hiedano" in the notes reinforces that claim. They haven't responded to any requests for clarification as to why.

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Re: Yen Press licenses Touhou Suzunaan ~ Forbidden Scrollery
« Reply #209 on: November 23, 2017, 04:35:59 PM »
Well that's pretty cruddy, I can't imagine anything that justifies that change. It's gonna annoy me now as a result, hurgfh