Author Topic: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Blooms of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers  (Read 265651 times)

MANoBadAssGar Jr.

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Fixed teams would be horrible and I don't think they will go that way.
Even if the system allowed you to just play one character all the time with no penalty, that would be a terrible waste of potential.

That said, there are a lot of possibilities to consider when designing a tag team system. Would the characters have separate life bars or a shared one - and if separate, will the loss of one team member equal KO or not? How vital will switching out be to resource management? If not very vital, then will simple ULiL-style 1v1 battles be a viable option for Versus Mode? If vital, then what kind of variety will it bring to the gameplay? Switchout moves? Tag cancels? Assists? Combo breakers? Some character-dependent passive benefits on switch like in Ougon Musou Kyoku? There is a lot to consider.

Too bad a hypothetical 2 player vs 2 player mode is unlikely, if for the sheer hassle that would bring to configuring the keybinding on PC. That would be an incredibly sweet PvP option...

When they said "not only in mind, but also in body" im guessing it's separate life bar, thus the "perfect possession" instead of simply possession, or can be said swap places/existence. who knows at this point yet, let's just indulge in wild guess game anyway.

Probably fixed partner/pair for the story mode, otherwise there will be too much dialogue variation.
But if 1v1 or solo is viable it would defeat the purpose of the new pair mechanic. rendering it your average fighters imo

Who started saying it's 2v2 anyway?

Has there been any confirmation this is a tag battle/two character system?  Or is that just speculation based on the limited info given?
Speculation.
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Gpop

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The only time there will be "fixed" teams will be in story mode. Outside of that, if tag teams exist, it should be open-ended.

However, we all speculate that we can control two characters, but what if instead it was assist-based? Basically we take charge of one character, and the second character will be the "assist" only that helps out through a special move and that's it?

It's just another possibility but seems like something Tasofro would think of.

I think the tag system will be instantaneous, unlike most other fighters we've seen since they said it's like a teleport. So I imagine the swapping to happen right away in the middle of attacks, like Double from Skullgirls.


Marron

  • Ordinary crow
I've followed this topic because I like those speculations about a new game. :)

I won't give my opinion about a new fighting game. What I would like to talk about is Hecatia. We're speculating about the fact that it's probably a tag team fighting game. If that were to be the case-and I'm not happy about what I'm going to say-, I don't think Hecatia will be playable. Like some people here, I would love to see a Junko/Hecatia team, since the two of them are my favorite characters from LoLK. But I think it's hardly possible if we take into account that Hecatia has three bodies. I don't see how she would fit the game with three separate bodies. If she "teleports" "switch" or "disapears", wouldn't it be more logic for her to swich with another body of her than switching place with Junko ?

I would like someone to explain to me how it would be possible. I don't know how it would work to include Junko/Hecatia in this game as a team because of that three bodies thing. Then again, the solution would be . . . Zun logic ?

A little joke here, if you want medicine to be playable, tag her with Yamame: Spread-the-poison-to-gensokyo-team ohohoh  :3
« Last Edit: December 13, 2016, 01:36:03 PM by MaskedLeon »

Firestorm29

  • Lily White Mage
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I'm starting to expect a "Imperishable Night: The Fighters" sort of approach. I'm expecting some characters to appear like Yuyuko, Yuuka, Cirno and some of the Prismrivers to pop-up. Maybe Yukari... It feels like this possession theme would fit something where the 2nd character modifies the danmaku and perhaps changes how attacks work.

And I'm feeling on going all on red for Kosuzu showing up.

I've followed this topic because I like those speculations about a new game. :)

I won't give my opinion about a new fighting game. What I would like to talk about is Hecatia. We're speculating about the fact that it's probably a tag team fighting game. If that were to be the case-and I'm not happy about what I'm going to say-, I don't think Hecatia will be playable. Like some people here, I would love to see a Junko/Hecatia team, since the two of them are my favorite characters from LoLK. But I think it's hardly possible if we take into account that Hecatia has three bodies. I don't see how she would fit the game with three separate bodies. If she "teleports" "switch" or "disapears", wouldn't it be more logic for her to swich with another body of her than switching place with Junko ?

I would like someone to explain to me how it would be possible. I don't know how it would work to include Junko/Hecatia in this game as a team because of that three bodies thing. Then again, the solution would be . . . Zun logic ?

A little joke here, if you want medicine to be playable, tag her with Yamame: Spread-the-poison-to-gensokyo-team ohohoh  :3
I imagine Hecatia to be a stance character, where changing her hair color will give her new playstyles and moves.

As much as it would be cool to see her playable, ZUN seems to have something against overly powerful characters being playable.  He said the Watatsuki Sisters are too powerful to be playable, and since Hecatia is more or less confirmed to be the most powerful character to appear in the series so far...  Yeah...

PK

  • Border of Whatever
I imagine Hecatia to be a stance character, where changing her hair color will give her new playstyles and moves.

As much as it would be cool to see her playable, ZUN seems to have something against overly powerful characters being playable.  He said the Watatsuki Sisters are too powerful to be playable, and since Hecatia is more or less confirmed to be the most powerful character to appear in the series so far...  Yeah...
He actually said Yorihime was too strong to be a boss, because you should be able to defeat her. If anything, making her or Hecatia playable would be the best way to use them. And given the rumor of someone so powerful to be considered unbeatable in 1vs1 duels, this is probably the best chance for them to appear anywhere.

Suwako Moriya

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ZUN kan't into Western philosophy.

Quoting this because it's a beautiful pun that deserved far more recognition than the none it got.
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Well, this game happened.

Serela

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ZUN saying the Watatsuki characters can't be in a game makes perfect sense if you've read the mangas; they're nigh undefeatable. They're not just strong, they're Mary Sue tier almost-invincible and do things like casually cut master spark in half and mock you. You can't really compare anyone else to them- if Hecatia was reasonably defeatable in an extra stage (And that was without the Ultramarine Medicine, as well) than she could reasonably enough appear. I still don't think she -will-, though.

After all, the "person too strong to defeat 1v1" is most likely going to be a new character. I would be shocked if the final boss wasn't new.

I could see the HP bars going either way (seperate or together) because AFAIK it was implied Reimu was fairly beat up in ULiL after Mokou had "possessed" her. Slightly confusing.
« Last Edit: December 13, 2016, 02:40:54 PM by Serela »
<mauvecow> see this is how evil works in reality, it just wears you down with bureaucracy until you don't care anymore

ZUN literally said "Hecatia is stronger than anyone in Gensokyo or the Lunar Capital". The only reason we can beat her in extra is because she and Junko had already given up- she was just playing around.
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Flandre5carlet

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and since Hecatia is more or less confirmed to be the most powerful character to appear in the series so far...  Yeah...
Is that so? I'll admit I've only just grazed over LoLK so far, so I'm not entirely knowledgeable about it.

I do think there's no way the final boss won't be a new character though, much like others have said. Also in turn, even if it's just speculation, I think it'd be a huge waste if they didn't use the opportunity for tag team gameplay.

Edit:
ZUN literally said "Hecatia is stronger than anyone in Gensokyo or the Lunar Capital". The only reason we can beat her in extra is because she and Junko had already given up- she was just playing around.
When'd he say that?

PK

  • Border of Whatever
Is that so? I'll admit I've only just grazed over LoLK so far, so I'm not entirely knowledgeable about it.

I do think there's no way the final boss won't be a new character though, much like others have said. Also in turn, even if it's just speculation, I think it'd be a huge waste if they didn't use the opportunity for tag team gameplay.

Edit: When'd he say that?
LoLK interview (Hecatia's section).

Flandre5carlet

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LoLK interview (Hecatia's section).
Huh, interesting. In context, it kind of sounds like he's saying she's this powerful in contrast to other characters who play by the rules. ie. Playing by the rules vs not playing by the rules = obviously a power mismatch.

Sorry I'm derailing this.

All this talk about the "dangers" to humans makes me think... Mima!?!? Nah. Couldn't be.

I kinda miss the Hisoutensoku systems, with decks and customization. It gave the game a lot of personality and flavor to the average player.

ZUN saying the Watatsuki characters can't be in a game makes perfect sense if you've read the mangas; they're nigh undefeatable. They're not just strong, they're Mary Sue tier almost-invincible and do things like casually cut master spark in half and mock you. You can't really compare anyone else to them- if Hecatia was reasonably defeatable in an extra stage (And that was without the Ultramarine Medicine, as well) than she could reasonably enough appear. I still don't think she -will-, though.

After all, the "person too strong to defeat 1v1" is most likely going to be a new character. I would be shocked if the final boss wasn't new.

I could see the HP bars going either way (seperate or together) because AFAIK it was implied Reimu was fairly beat up in ULiL after Mokou had "possessed" her. Slightly confusing.
Hecatia was beatable because she wasn't fighting seriously on purpose.  Since Yorihime has a no-nonsense attitude, I can see not fighting seriously and thus losing being out of character for her.

Jeremie

  • MoonScraper
Toyohime could totally be a "beatable" boss character in a fighting game. She could be just like Hazama in earlier Blazblue games. "Winning" against her doesn't even mean she's beaten but that she's just taking it easy. I think she has enough of a playful personality to do such a thing. Yorihime though would be indeed much harder to justify since she probably wouldn't ever hold back.
It is pitch black. You are likely to be eaten by Rumia.

TenPlates

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Toyohime could totally be a "beatable" boss character in a fighting game. She could be just like Hazama in earlier Blazblue games. "Winning" against her doesn't even mean she's beaten but that she's just taking it easy. I think she has enough of a playful personality to do such a thing. Yorihime though would be indeed much harder to justify since she probably wouldn't ever hold back.

Kinda like how you can beat
Spoiler:
Tenshi when she is a boss in SWR Story Mode, but only because she wasn't fighting seriously?
"Having a normal life in Gensokyo."

Jeremie

  • MoonScraper
Kinda like how you can beat
Spoiler:
Tenshi when she is a boss in SWR Story Mode, but only because she wasn't fighting seriously?

Pretty similar yes although in that example I gave, it goes further. The boss keeps smiling when he's hit, "defeated" and a time out victory yields a sarcastic clap from the character. 
Spoiler:
Afterwards, all the following cutscenes usually shows that he's perfectly fine anyway. He's pretty much just trolling/messing with the characters
. While Toyohime wouldn't be as much of a jerk, I think it's not too much of a stretch to have her as a boss in a similar fashion. Now that I think of it, an alternative with Yorihime would be that depleting her health to 0 would just have her stay in a normal stance, not laying on the ground or exhausted at all. What happens next is that your character would be exhausted while she's just fine. Basically, in a story that could use a specific character, there's all sorts of ways or alternatives ZUN could use to bring a character he'd want to use regardless of "power levels" or those rather irrelevant things when it comes to the fighting game genre.  :3

« Last Edit: December 14, 2016, 07:14:53 AM by Jeremie »
It is pitch black. You are likely to be eaten by Rumia.

I don't think this incident would involve the Moon anymore though, since even the story said their's role is finished. If it even does involve to the extend that Yorihime is here, that would actually mean the new boss is someone strong enough to make even her get roped in. And that's would mean she's pretty fkin high in the strength totem (Like on Yukari-level), and I don't think Zun want that for such a local event.

Flandre5carlet

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Now that I think about it, that's true. I think it'd be a bit odd to have more lunarians brought in after everything said during Reisen's route in ULiL.
I mean, Reisen could just be wrong, but considering Touhou storytelling is usually done through dialogue as far as the games are concerned (well, that and the endings), it'd be weird to have the entire last route of a game - that is basically meant as a setup for the next game - say the same "No, it isn't A" repeatedly just for the next game to completely disregard that and go "Actually it was A lol".
« Last Edit: December 14, 2016, 07:45:37 AM by Flandre5carlet »

Well, if there is anything to this. I guess the goal of the new boss would be to revive herself, and make herself know, based on the fact that the Occult Ball turn anything unreal into a reality, and possesion is used to be a famous method for an indivitual to be know of.

Also I does found something interest after a quick research on this, hope this may get relevant: https://hyakumonogatari.com/2013/07/02/tsukimono-the-possessing-thing/

ToyoRai

  • Head But No Tail
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The only Lunarian I would see getting involved is Sagume, but only because she is partly the origin of the whole urban legend thing, so she would get dragged into this unwittingly.

After some thinking, here's what I know about the new boss:
1. She's either a spirit, or involved with spirit (since both Reimu and Miko, the two who are known to be able to listen to spirit, have a clue about her).
2. She's invisible to the naked eyes, or otherwise have such a low presence to leave no physical tract (Since (presumingly) no other ULiL, not even Hijiri or Reisen, know about such indivitual other that through the Occult Ball).
3. She's smart enough to used the Occult Ball, since the kanji 憑 (tsuki; possession) is pun with the kanji for the moon, thus the connection.
4. Possession is her main theme and expertive (this is kinda obvious).

Unfortunately, that still leave many suspect. But perhap this would help in our speculation.

I know!  Have Hecatia be playable, while Yorihime is an unplayable boss that only the former can fight.  This way, the latter losing makes sense!

Flandre5carlet

  • Sister of the Devil
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I'd rather play Yorihime-

I'd only accept Yorihime if she suffers a painful and humiliating death.

So in other words, I don't want Yorihime to be involved.
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Flandre5carlet

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Such hate filled words.

PK

  • Border of Whatever
And here i thought the Watatsuki hate ship finally sunk.

I'd only accept Yorihime if she suffers a painful and humiliating death.

So in other words, I don't want Yorihime to be involved.
The ending to the aforementioned boss fight shows Yorihime's severed head on top of Hecatia's head.  Happy?