Author Topic: FTL: Faster Then Light: Advanced Mafia (Sector 4, Scrapping Cycle) (Read 77897 times)

Dorian White · « **Reply #660 on:** July 22, 2015, 05:17:44 PM »

@Conqueror: I never said that it was lost, I just said that it didn't turned out as intended an of course did I got a QT with someone else, isn't that right Dan?

@DNA: I actually love your vote, cause it means that someone is finally giving me some attention.^^
But I still think your case is kinda flawed:
First, tell me do you really mean that I made a questionable vote switch at a inconvenient time for me to post, risking my comfy under the radar position and all that in a attempt to protect a buddy that I knew that he wouldn't get lynched anyway? <_< So what was my motive to go through all that trouble?
By the way, who do you think can offer a clearer interpretation of an role related event? The player who were guessing what happened or the few who knew that Shalako was a governor? >_>
Also I think that you forgot a person to clear and a maybe more interesting fact. At our first encounter, where you suspected me for ignoring roles which is part of my meta I guess, so the point where I broke with it was as I considered Shedowehs claim but that was an mistake that I can still fix.

##Vote: Shadoweh

Quote from: Shadoweh on July 21, 2015, 04:30:30 PM

Yes? Serela, I think it's really interesting that you don't remember what a Governor is. It's been a scum role in Motk games before. Being unlynchable once doesn't mean much. It is almost like you already know the answer to the 'silly questions' the rest of town are positing.

This almost sounds like you ? lets say suspect Serela of being scum.

Quote from: Shadoweh on July 22, 2015, 06:48:05 AM

...
Conq: I think my feelings on Pattorguy depend on Serela's alignment. If Serela is town I don't like the way he's setting him up. ...

But in your next post you need to assume town Serela to further suspect the guy that you suspected all game! Where does this town assumption on Serela come from? And wasn't Murrin not suspect enough to you before? To the point that you even complained about me not voting him anymore.
Honestly, If I wouldn't know it better, then I would say that you try to line up lynches here.

PS: Awww, Dan now you spoiled the surprise.^^;

DNAbc · « **Reply #661 on:** July 22, 2015, 05:23:14 PM »

Town MVP replaced murrin as 1 shot vig, justice is served to the face to imbalanced setup. 3:1 ratio with a scum governor, seriously bloody what.

Dan replaced dormio

What kind of bloody balance would put a beloved and governor on the scumteam. The basis of mafia is communication, I will even happily deal with a game where players focus on private communications with loads of qts but invalidating the lynch is just bloody stupid. Even nnr wouldn't do that. I would personally quit the fuck out of the game if that's the case.

##Unvote
##vote:Dorian

Will sleep on my vote and address people when my mind is clearer. Also find it weird how Dan didn't really directly answer confront my query.

SB's redirection makes sense yes, there's also a roleblocker on the loose. Well that's true. Hm, but wait.

What if Dan and Dorian are both scums?
Oh god

What the hell is your role Dan.

Cut by 2

DNAbc · « **Reply #662 on:** July 22, 2015, 05:25:06 PM »

I am not really awake enough to digest the new wall, so let me do it later, night

Serela · « **Reply #663 on:** July 22, 2015, 05:36:19 PM »

Whilst I can totally get Dorian's vote and would normally be behind it, I think Shadoweh is most likely truthing about her role, because scum are so far probably strong as F, we -must- have a protective role hanging out. If anyone thinks they have a role that could compete for that function, they'll counterclaim at some point or another, so :shrug:

...Dorian, Dan, and SkyBard. The latter can't really be reread at this point, but he tried and almost succeeded in flashwagoning Dan's slot end-of-d1, so there's that. The other two, time for rereads z.z

Serela · « **Reply #664 on:** July 22, 2015, 05:46:39 PM »

Bard did give Shalako the A for Efffort end-of-d1, but he also included me and DNA in that list and I also gave Shalako a pass for effort at the time so that's pretty null. Okay, the actual slots to get reread now. Dan first because it's less to read.

Heh, Dan slammed Bard hard start of D2, so it seems the feeling was mutual. ...the other person he talks to is Shalako, with a "this is sort of suspicious but it could be okay if they improved some", etc. Hmm end-day main switch inclination also Shalako, but with a hard scum read on Bard.

It's important to remember at this point that scum had a governor. They could COMPLETELY afford to bus the hell out of eachother. And if Dan/SkyBard are both scum it protrays them doing exactly that; bussing the hell out of eachother. Still, that'd be getting ahead of myself; more important to look first at individual scumminess or suspicious Shalako interactions. And, of course, Dan's got a questionable attempt to try to make Dorian softcleared today?

Oh hey.

I should be rereading SHALAKO. Yeah. Let's do that next, not Dorian.

DNAbc · « **Reply #665 on:** July 22, 2015, 05:50:55 PM »

Right, but I skimmed Dorians wall anyway because I have no self control and I have some queries.

But answers come first, although it was a pretty loaded question with lots of slippery slopes. You are basically asking me to answer under all the advantaheous assumptions to you, how the hell do you expect anyone to do that.

So lets put all those assumptions aside and focus on facts.

Dorian, I feel that with your caliber of play youd know better than to lurk when the playerbase is actively dogging lurkers. So your motivation is simply to avoid appearing bad. That itself is null. But you cut it off at that without really offering to contribute more. Since you got a whole day to contribute, and I reckon that any townies would be moderately rustled after the fiasco. My inference that you just aren't as invested as you should, which itself is a scumtell. And, indeed, had town MVP not shot shalako, scums would be going into d3 with a 6v3 ratio, which is a scum win after two more mislynches. Id therefore consider your behavior pretty telling.

Although I am absolutely not going to fall trap to your implication that I am operating under confirmation bias, which you can refer to my post before. I will still justify the part about rolespec because its important; scum had a clear motivation to not make scum governor out to be an appealing option. Because at that point it is as you've said, town is unlikely to lynch shalako again, and scum wouldn't have known he would be shot. Therefore the motive for scum here is to set up a win after 2 mislynches, and even if that failed and the playerbase ended up lynching shalako, that would still give scum alot of leverage in killing another important PR. I will entertain the notion some scums could bring up the idea about governor but not pursuing it. （Such as shaodweh, but his uncountered doctor claim with a unique clause sets him firmly in town territory）, but I won't accept you trying to pass off the night panic as wifom.

Cut by 2

DNAbc · « **Reply #666 on:** July 22, 2015, 05:52:31 PM »

advantaheous assumptions

*advantageous assumptions

Serela · « **Reply #667 on:** July 22, 2015, 05:52:51 PM »

Reread SkyPal's post.

Quote

Mass claim: hold off until a cop or tracker type actually flips. We already have an outed doc, so the threat of a watcher type covering Shadowdh is the only way she will survive.

Oh hey dat nightkill victim :V I'm pretty much fine with massclaim as stated earlier, esp. since I just realized the only person who could possibly claim that I don't really want to would be Conq. A lot of people either died or already claimed, actually. Albeit my claim wasn't really a claim, I guess!

Maybe we could do popcorn claiming so we can leave Conq for last and then if he thinks it's best not to I wouldn't really care but that's his business

DNAbc · « **Reply #668 on:** July 22, 2015, 06:01:35 PM »

Also I totally forgot to ask my supposed question, but Dorian, why would you ignore Shadowehs super convincing claim and instead chasing after his play instead?

Also, for drawing a Cornclusion based on two Cherry quotes that Shadoweh is lining up Lynchees is also terribly far fetched, do you have any other materials to support your Cornclusion?

DNAbc · « **Reply #669 on:** July 22, 2015, 06:01:57 PM »

The last paragraph is a veg joke btw

DNAbc · « **Reply #670 on:** July 22, 2015, 06:02:42 PM »

Really gonna sleep now, night

DNAbc · « **Reply #671 on:** July 22, 2015, 06:08:22 PM »

Also I am basically as good as innocent child from now on, thanks to the governor flipping and my beloved being confirmable. We have patrorikku, Shadoweh and me as conftown, meaning wed only have to lynch out of a pool of 5, with 2 scums amongst them, its pretty decent ratio if you ask me.

But pls don't forget scum still win after two lynches because bad balance is bad. We practically only get 1 mislynch which is today as 6v2 today> 4v2 tomorrow. On the second mislynch it would be 2v2 and Shadoweh will probably be endgamed regardless of bp. Yikes.

Serela · « **Reply #672 on:** July 22, 2015, 06:13:11 PM »

Not much d1 interaction with Shalako to find because Dan was gonemio and Bard only had a few posts. There's a single back-and-forth with Dorian, though. ...ahahha, Shalako asks who Dorian thinks would make a good alt wagon and Dorian says Bard. It doesn't matter who was scum out of Bard/Dorian/Dan, they're all trying to kill eachother :V:V

Quoting Shalako's d2 overall reads post for everyone's easy viewing pleasure, do with it what you will (cut out people who don't matter see full post if you want, he had mixed up who was who so the me/shadoweh section I think was inaccurate?)

Quote

-Bardiche ft. Skypal Hasn't posted a lot, Don't think Clearing People for effort is a good sign but I may just be influenced by Dan/Conq.
-Dorian Medium, doesn't really stick out anywhere.
-Dormio Replaced by ActionDan I didn't understand why people attacked Dormio's post where he said paranoid reads beyond it being kinda fence sitting but I saw it as clarifying his thought process and Action Dan I agree with not trusting people just because they put effort into the game.

And then Shalako votes me for something someone else entirely had done, which he keeps pursuing and talking about for a few more posts before realizing I wasn't the one who did it. I think this is a pretty good tell that I wasn't his scumbuddy. He started taking a lot of flak about/after this and started getting flashwagoned. There's some shadoweh interactions that I think support Shads being town, not that I doubt that anyway. Same for Conq. He starts trying to get the Bard wagon started back up, too, after things are going south. Starting to think Bard is probably town that the scum really wanted to get lynched? In any case, that further supports Dan/Shalako being on the same team, at the very least; Bard interactions could go either way since there's the gov.

Dan's play himself is okay until you consider his targets in relation to gamestate now that we know Shalako was scum, there was a gov, etc. I think he looks pretty likely to be his scumbuddy, now, and also the PoE is powerful.
##Target ActionDan
Dorian still requires some consideration but I'm out of mafia juice for the moment and I think Dan is the most likely scumbuddy regardless of whether Dorian ends up being likely or unlikely.

Dorian White · « **Reply #673 on:** July 22, 2015, 07:49:14 PM »

@DNA: First I would suggest that you go to sleep and rephrase your first bunch of questions, cause it's kind of a mess. But I can answer your last two questions.
First, I always put play/behavior over roles, cause I base my decisions on what my suspect does no matter what the mod may or may not gave them. Fun fact: I cleared you based on the fact that you needlessly blurt out your claim day1! I'm honestly still not sure what your role actually does but I think your town so I don't care anyway.^^;
And second, I you call a major contradiction in her reads a cherry then I quoted a sweet cherry ~ <3
Honestly, what do I need more then the fact that she suspected Murrin all game but as soon as the guy gets replaced does she require Serela, a player she also suspected for some time, to be town to think he's scum. That's too much of a jump that I could follow.^^;;

Patorikku · « **Reply #674 on:** July 22, 2015, 08:29:54 PM »

Quote from: Dorian White on July 22, 2015, 07:49:14 PM

@DNA: First I would suggest that you go to sleep and rephrase your first bunch of questions, cause it's kind of a mess. But I can answer your last two questions.
First, I always put play/behavior over roles, cause I base my decisions on what my suspect does no matter what the mod may or may not gave them. Fun fact: I cleared you based on the fact that you needlessly blurt out your claim day1! I'm honestly still not sure what your role actually does but I think your town so I don't care anyway.^^;
And second, I you call a major contradiction in her reads a cherry then I quoted a sweet cherry ~ <3
Honestly, what do I need more then the fact that she suspected Murrin all game but as soon as the guy gets replaced does she require Serela, a player she also suspected for some time, to be town to think he's scum. That's too much of a jump that I could follow.^^;;

I kind of understand why you would pick up such a playstyle, but with a completely uncontested BP bodyguard claim with several players willing to justify such a PR given scum Governor exists in this setup, you're telling me you'd still suspect Shadoweh of being scum because her fos wavered? For that matter, Shadoweh's change in perspective on my slot came into play late into the phase, where I'd already made plenty of posts that differentiated my playstyle from Murrin's, (whether for better or worse, I cannot tell) and Conqueror - a major townread by just about everyone - had also stated he feels better about my play over Murrin's. Shadoweh had raised a valid point in me picking up on the three easiest scumreads in the game at that point, so I understand why you feel Shadoweh reading me more as town is a bit suspect.

Actually, that raises a good point there. You feel Shadoweh's switch is scummy, but what about me? I've been jumping onto the easy wagons and going with the flow, so if role claims aren't a major priority of yours, am I not also scummy? Vig claim aside, wouldn't I raise a few flags? Why leave one supposed clear alone, but vote the other? From a logical standpoint, I get some of that reasoning, but then again, voting an uncontested claim townie isn't that logical.

##Target Dorian

I still have my eyes on Serela, beeteedubs. Maybe you and I will never see eye-to-eye on the roleshens that occurred N2, but that steering away from roleshens N2 could've really hurt town today, though that's more off of personal insight knowing I could vig and being anxious about having Shalako actually turn town and just looking like an idiot...

Sky_Paladin · « **Reply #675 on:** July 22, 2015, 08:33:33 PM »

Re lack of posrs:I can post when I am on train only. Forum was down in my last window.
Main thoughts: ok with mass claim, happy to go first/early.
Suspicious of Shalako's late day 1 activity. Seems like Shalako baited the lunch in purpose. Why? Was another scum player in danger? Who? Iirc Shadoweh and Serela were tied as lead wagons with 6 hours out but I will have to reread on the train.
Also scum *knew* if this was planned. Can find? Look for bus votes on Shalako since it was free town cred when he eventually flipped.
Town sorting DNA, Patchy due to these slots interactions with Shalako and the vig. Shadoweh not covering Obv town Raitaki seems odd. Perhaps she did and there was a strongman shot but no claim? I don't know best lead doc meta so

Dan still saying the same thing but less frequently
I forgot Conq was in the game. Need to review Dorian re/ DNA case. See you in a few hours.

Serela · « **Reply #676 on:** July 22, 2015, 08:41:58 PM »

SkyPal:Shadoweh is a BP bodyguard, she didn't guard him. But that's up to her to say. I'd tell you more to help you efficiently use your limited time (like how shalako wagon went d2; I can tell you Dan had Shalako as his #2 suspect all day but otherwise the wagon mostly blew up after he misvoted me for something Raitaki did) but I have to leave for work this second D; If your posting is limited I'd just say claim now, there's not been resistance to the idea of massclaim AFAIK and multiple people interested in having Dan claim.

Dorian I know you claimed but was it a fullclaim?

ActionDan · « **Reply #677 on:** July 22, 2015, 08:48:56 PM »

We aren't massclaiming just because you and DNA want to

There is no appreciable benefits atm.

@DNA, the qt between me and dorian is mirrored by the thread. I gave my reads and we discussed Shalako a bit, notably disagreeing about her alignment

ActionDan · « **Reply #678 on:** July 22, 2015, 08:50:30 PM »

And I had a town read on him for D1, and the qt did not dissuade me from that read

ActionDan · « **Reply #679 on:** July 22, 2015, 09:10:40 PM »

Quote from: Selery on July 22, 2015, 06:13:11 PM

He starts trying to get the Bard wagon started back up, too, after things are going south. Starting to think Bard is probably town that the scum really wanted to get lynched? In any case, that further supports Dan/Shalako being on the same team, at the very least; Bard interactions could go either way since there's the gov.

Dan's play himself is okay until you consider his targets in relation to gamestate now that we know Shalako was scum, there was a gov, etc. I think he looks pretty likely to be his scumbuddy, now, and also the PoE is powerful.
##Target ActionDan

Hard to say which vote is more painful, this or patorikkus dorian vote.

I don't get the 2nd half at all. It's scummy to target prime scum candidate bard and scum shalako? Am I too towny to be town, is that it? Because the existence of a governor does not mean scum become limited to busing one another.

Why is bard town and not a bus vote then, when things go south. Could scum shalako not afford to distance there knowing he was about to take the hit?

NekoNekoRex · « **Reply #680 on:** July 22, 2015, 09:28:15 PM »

Battlemap Update 1
Skypal (1): ActionDan
Dorian (2): Darkninja, Pattrikku
ActionDan (1): Serela
Out of Combat: Conq, Shadoweh
Defensive Maneuvers: Skypal, Dorian

It takes 5 ships targeting another one to destroy it.
There are 57 Hours left in the Combat Cycle

Conqueror · « **Reply #681 on:** July 22, 2015, 09:56:27 PM »

Quick posting window for now

Synergy between one-shot vig and one-shot governor is actually pretty clever in hindsight although I still don't think it's balanced given the penchant for one-shot vigs to blow their load N1. But anyway this dispels any most doubts about Patorikku's alignment, I think.

@Sky_Paladin: How on earth was Raitaki obvtown? I had him as one of my top suspects heading into the day and I think he was a null read for many people so I'm curious why you think Shadoweh would have protected him? Also, I don't buy that scum necessarily had to bus Shalako fwiw. They could afford to because of governor but they could also waste town's time with a no lynch or lynch elsewhere and save the governor use for later. So it's convenient that you're searching on hte wagon when you were off of it!
Looking back Shalako and Bard's interactions were pretty sparse (clearing him off effort = town) and Sky hasn't really wowed me with his content so far, even though I know he's busy. Most other people have given me flashes of town at one point or another though so I might find him the best vote just by PoE.

I can kinda see the disconnect Dorian is pointing out with his Shadoweh vote but at the same time I feel like it's a relatively minor thing to pick on at this stage of the game (especially since I think it's clear Shadoweh is conflicted on Serela and Pattorikku's alignment so I don't see the accusation that Shadoweh is lining up lynches), plus with so many other venues to attack Shadoweh (interactions with and hard defense of Shalako, etc.) it feels strange to pick on this one thing. Makes me feel like Dorian isn't really taking flips into account. Dorian interactions with Shalako are also pretty sparse (clearing him off white knighting = town and not revisiting)

Serela and others I'm saving for a reread when I get back.

Dan, I understand that you supposedly have a Dorian townread but forgive me for having some hesitation given that it's really easy to buddy someone in a QT. If I were scum in Dorian's position I would have exactly the same reaction you say Dorian had because how are you going to fakeclaim out of being redirected and neighborizing someone you would not have neighborized otherwise? Also, a neighborizer could also have other powers attached to it. Also, Dan, who else do you think is scum besides SkyBard?

I'm in favour of massclaim because with tracker dead I doubt there are many more strong town prs and I think we can break the game open at this point if we get all the information out there. In fact I'll start since let's just shut down one avenue that people keep coming back to and we're never going to finish massclaim otherwise. I'm a one-shot cop and Shadoweh's a ~~true patriot~~ rebel. Bolding this so people actually read it. Copped her N1 because she felt pretty disconnected from the game and I don't think our reads are usually as different as they were at the end of D1, plus I didn't expect her to be a nk target if she was town. I crumbed this in the most obvious way at the start of D2 and even though I feel like some people caught one to it the fact that Shadoweh actually became a wagon and had to claim is stupid. I suppose there's a minute possibility she is a godfather, which I considered briefly, but I highly doubt it since that would just be a dick move on NNR's part.

Sky can start the popcorn.

Also, ##Target: Sky

ActionDan · « **Reply #682 on:** July 22, 2015, 09:58:49 PM »

I caught your crumb btw

Conqueror · « **Reply #683 on:** July 22, 2015, 10:05:40 PM »

Yeah, you were one of the people I figured saw it

Sky_Paladin · « **Reply #684 on:** July 22, 2015, 10:18:32 PM »

I am an odd night jailer. N1 I jailed Raitaki (re obv town) because of being a voice of reason and generally driving content.

I also have a note about having 0 shots of another ability, which suggests we have an ability charger in the game, also.

Sky_Paladin · « **Reply #685 on:** July 22, 2015, 10:19:36 PM »

I'll also note that the 0 shot ability is why I am dubious of Shadowehs claim of "bulletproof doc that doesn't so anything".

Patorikku · « **Reply #686 on:** July 22, 2015, 10:22:45 PM »

Okay, after some re-analysis, I recognize my vote on Dorian looks a bit stupid. After all, a lot of what I said depends on nobody contesting Shadoweh's claim, which you were clearly doing. Also, the fact that there was no direct evidence that could back up her claim, as opposed to my case, where I claimed ~~before~~ at the start of the cycle in response to finding it worked. However you seemed, at the time, to be the only major opponent against Shadoweh's claim, so while I know my argument is a bit lackluster, I still want a bit more elaboration. Prior to the start of the phase, why did you think Shadoweh's change of heart seemed like lining up lynches?

##Unvote

I'd still like to hear you claim toward that last bit of your ability. After all, you mentioned it might come up today.

Cut by 2

Sky_Paladin · « **Reply #687 on:** July 22, 2015, 10:25:11 PM »

I think Dans handwave townclear on Dorian is extremely forced. All he has established is that yes, he was redirected by SB. This is not alignment indicative and with a flipped tracker/claimed cop/claimed doc I doubt Dorians last ability is auto town.
This seems to be an uncharacteristically poor announcement coming from Dan.
##target Dan while I review day 2.

Sky_Paladin · « **Reply #688 on:** July 22, 2015, 10:26:38 PM »

Patchy: I don't think your vote is stupid and, as basically confirmed town, you can do pretty much anything you like IMO.

Sky_Paladin · « **Reply #689 on:** July 22, 2015, 10:29:38 PM »

Ah I am so dumb.
@Shadoweh does your role and ability list include "bomb" in the non traditional sense? You might be my missing part.