Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87

[Starxsword]

I?m already going to say this, if Kokoro is playable, then maybe ? ? ? will be another enemy for her or maybe they know each other, since this is also a sequel for Hopeless Masquerade. I think Hanako will be a subordinate of the real final boss... i mean the translated dialogue implies the encounter with Reimu happens after stage 2 meaning it's stage 3 which means... it can't be the final boss.

Well, if they called it a sequel, then, maybe. For Immaterial and Missing Power to Scarlet Weather Rhapsody, there are no relations between the final boss of IaMP and SWR. But I would think Hanako would not be the final boss either.

[Doki-Doki]

Thinking about it now, I'm a bit skeptical about how the rest of the HM cast would return, whilst it would be easy to bring them back since their sprites and moves are done and whatnot, wouldn't it be hard to relate them to urban legends with their last words and their occult phenomeon? I mean, I could see it happening with Koishi and Mamizou definitely, but the other characters it doesn't seem like it'd fit that well. Unless tasofro either thinks up appropriate urban legends to tie around each character or just instead gives them the same Last Words as in the previous game.

[Aya Reiko]

Thinking about it now, I'm a bit skeptical about how the rest of the HM cast would return, whilst it would be easy to bring them back since their sprites and moves are done and whatnot, wouldn't it be hard to relate them to urban legends with their last words and their occult phenomeon? I mean, I could see it happening with Koishi and Mamizou definitely, but the other characters it doesn't seem like it'd fit that well. Unless tasofro either thinks up appropriate urban legends to tie around each character or just instead gives them the same Last Words as in the previous game.

I think they'll return, but it'll be a situation similar to how Soku was to SWR;  You need the original game to have the full roster, otherwise the game will only have a pathetically small roster.  And the old characters won't have a storyline for themselves, nor will they be featured much.

[Doki-Doki]

I think they'll return, but it'll be a situation similar to how Soku was to SWR;  You need the original game to have the full roster, otherwise the game will only have a pathetically small roster.  And the old characters won't have a storyline for themselves, nor will they be featured much.

I somewhat doubt that, personally I think the character names might be placeholders for different characters. It's been stated that ULiL will be a sequel, not an expansion so it'd seem a bit odd for the game to have only 5 storyline characters, as compared to Hopeless Masquerade where every character had a story path. Although the idea of a link between the two like in Soku and SWR sounds like it'll definitely be possible.

[Aya Reiko]

Another thing to dread about this game;  Anyone else notice the backgrounds?

They're flat.  Completely and totally flat.  No animation or perspective tricks.  It's just a single, unchanging flat image.  I hope they're either placeholders or there's a very good reason for it in game, but my dread for this game goes up even higher.

[Doki-Doki]

Another thing to dread about this game;  Anyone else notice the backgrounds?

They're flat.  Completely and totally flat.  No animation or perspective tricks.  It's just a single, unchanging flat image.  I hope they're either placeholders or there's a very good reason for it in game, but my dread for this game goes up even higher.

It's a demo, I doubt there won't be any life in the background, it did add some uniqueness to some stages, UNL, IaMP and SWR didn't really have any background features either though so I wouldn't be too upset about it. I'm more excited for the characters and the music than what's going on in the background though so meh.

[Doki-Doki]

Also, another thing I thought of. If the mysterious silhouette doesn't turn out to be a returning character, I predict that it'll be a character based off of the urban legend of the Aka Manto , because of how the Aka Manto is one of the few (If not only) figures in a Japanese urban legend to wear a/be related to a cape, like the silhouette.

[Phasm]

Also, another thing I thought of. If the mysterious silhouette doesn't turn out to be a returning character, I predict that it'll be a character based off of the urban legend of the Aka Manto , because of how the Aka Manto is one of the few (If not only) figures in a Japanese urban legend to wear a/be related to a cape, like the silhouette.

Good point there! But i might be Hanako, since it was found on the game's rooster files the name Hanako so. But i think the final boss will either be inspired by the Aka Manto or Kuchisake-onna which are all 3 very popular Urban Legends of Japan.

[Gpop]

I think they'll return, but it'll be a situation similar to how Soku was to SWR;  You need the original game to have the full roster, otherwise the game will only have a pathetically small roster.  And the old characters won't have a storyline for themselves, nor will they be featured much.

Only works if ULiL was an expansion to HM, which it's not. This is treated more like how the entire roster from IaMP (minus Meiling because of special reasons) was brought to SWR anyways, as SWR was basically a sequel to IaMP in this sense. The HM characters will fit somehow, in a similar fashion as how IaMP characters managed to fit.

[FearNagae]

Thinking about it now, I'm a bit skeptical about how the rest of the HM cast would return, whilst it would be easy to bring them back since their sprites and moves are done and whatnot, wouldn't it be hard to relate them to urban legends with their last words and their occult phenomeon? I mean, I could see it happening with Koishi and Mamizou definitely, but the other characters it doesn't seem like it'd fit that well. Unless tasofro either thinks up appropriate urban legends to tie around each character or just instead gives them the same Last Words as in the previous game.

They'd want to reuse their sprite if possible, like IaMP to SWR. It's not like Remi/etc had any real point in SWR story.

Another thing to dread about this game;  Anyone else notice the backgrounds?

They're flat.  Completely and totally flat.  No animation or perspective tricks.  It's just a single, unchanging flat image.  I hope they're either placeholders or there's a very good reason for it in game, but my dread for this game goes up even higher.

Are you sure your option is right :3 ? I have 3D animated background, though without characters dancing (as in HM spectators)

[Doki-Doki]

They'd want to reuse their sprite if possible, like IaMP to SWR. It's not like Remi/etc had any real point in SWR story.

Are you sure your option is right :3 ? I have 3D animated background, though without characters dancing (as in HM spectators)

Story-wise I could see them being fitted in in some way, it wouldn't exactly be hard. The only problem I see with them returning is that they'd have to relate to some kind of occult phenomenon, which would be somewhat hard for characters who wouldn't relate to urban legends in any way.

Good point there! But i might be Hanako, since it was found on the game's rooster files the name Hanako so. But i think the final boss will either be inspired by the Aka Manto or Kuchisake-onna which are all 3 very popular Urban Legends of Japan.

On that subject, I thought of how a few urban legends might relate to some characters in the series who'd fit in with the game. Like if Sekibanki was part of the roster, her urban legend link would be of the Teke-Teke, well, a variation of it. And a character like Nue's urban legend link would be of the nure-onna because of the snake coiled around her arm. For characters like Mokou I'd imagine the urban legend link to be that of the Thunderbird one, not specifically native to japan though.

Please use the edit button if your post is the last one. There is no reason for double posting  :ohdear: -Hele

[Suspicious person]

Story-wise I could see them being fitted in in some way, it wouldn't exactly be hard. The only problem I see with them returning is that they'd have to relate to some kind of occult phenomenon, which would be somewhat hard for characters who wouldn't relate to urban legends in any way.

Fair point,but if they are going to have their mechanism revised, get "occults" spells and get a brand new illustrtion for their LW, then it would be a waste not to give them a decent role in the story. Also, the characters themselves should not directly remind of some famous urban legend but exploit it (ie: Marisa and the seven wonders from school, which does not relate in any way to Marisa's magic powers). It would be great if HM's cast will be available for the vs mode but play no serious role in the story, and it would be even more great if the final roster features more characters than the ones who got data mined.

[cuc]

It was pointed out to me, in the 2009 Nae Radio stream - the one where they talked about Soku, ZUN said both Hong Meiling and the Giant Catfish were originally planned for SWR, but they didn't have the time to implement.

That explains why the central elements of the Meiling storyline - catfish, earthquake, and a focus on SDM - would fit better with SWR.

[Tiamat]

It was pointed out to me, in the 2009 Nae Radio stream - the one where they talked about Soku, ZUN said both Hong Meiling and the Giant Catfish were originally planned for SWR, but they didn't have the time to implement.

That explains why the central elements of the Meiling storyline - catfish, earthquake, and a focus on SDM - would fit better with SWR.

Oh yea, I forgot about that.  Taking that in to account, once could say they at least PLANNED for EVERY character from IaMP, even Meiling, to be in SWR.

It does seem to increase the likelihood that they're going to at least try to have every character from HM return for ULiU, but of course, like Meiling, they might run out of time/resources or whatever, too.

[Suspicious person]

Oh yea, I forgot about that.  Taking that in to account, once could say they at least PLANNED for EVERY character from IaMP, even Meiling, to be in SWR.

It does seem to increase the likelihood that they're going to at least try to have every character from HM return for ULiU, but of course, like Meiling, they might run out of time/resources or whatever, too.

They will also need to think of a way to accomodate HM character into ULiL, especially the ones who heavily relied on their gimmicks (since there is none in ULiL) like Futo and Byakuren. I also want to see how the dash button is gonna work for Koishi and Byakuren.

[Phasm]

Story-wise I could see them being fitted in in some way, it wouldn't exactly be hard. The only problem I see with them returning is that they'd have to relate to some kind of occult phenomenon, which would be somewhat hard for characters who wouldn't relate to urban legends in any way.
On that subject, I thought of how a few urban legends might relate to some characters in the series who'd fit in with the game. Like if Sekibanki was part of the roster, her urban legend link would be of the Teke-Teke, well, a variation of it. And a character like Nue's urban legend link would be of the nure-onna because of the snake coiled around her arm. For characters like Mokou I'd imagine the urban legend link to be that of the Thunderbird one, not specifically native to japan though.

Please use the edit button if your post is the last one. There is no reason for double posting  :ohdear: -Hele

Well maybe the religionists want to put a stop to Urban Legends? I don't see Byakuren and Miko and Ichirin and Futo utilizing Urban Legends... now Koishi and Nitori as well as Mamizou and Kokoro... i

[Starxsword]

The only problem I see with them returning is that they'd have to relate to some kind of occult phenomenon, which would be somewhat hard for characters who wouldn't relate to urban legends in any way.

I don't think the characters need to be related to urban legends, they just need to learn how to use it for their own means. There shouldn't be any issues doing that for any of the characters.

They will also need to think of a way to accomodate HM character into ULiL, especially the ones who heavily relied on their gimmicks (since there is none in ULiL) like Futo and Byakuren. I also want to see how the dash button is gonna work for Koishi and Byakuren.

Isn't Kokoro the only character who's special that would need redoing? Since she can change faiths. The other characters don't do this. I can't imagine their gimmick needing too much of a change.
The other character from previous games with that equivalent is Tenshi, but weather system remained in Hisoutensoku, so no precedence on what happens if the stage gimmick does not match up with the character's special.

[game2011]

Isn't Kokoro the only character who's special that would need redoing? Since she can change faiths.

Futo has a plate meter that her power is dependent on, Byakuren can only use spell cards a certain number of times before having to "charge" them, Mamizou will have to wait for her "leaf meter" to recover if some of her attacks get interrupted, etc.

[Doki-Doki]

Also I wonder if the reason ZUN switched artists for ULiL was because there's already fan-made Alphes-style portraits of pretty much every character?

[Romantique Tp]

Eh? What a weird assumption.

[Colticide]

Also I wonder if the reason ZUN switched artists for ULiL was because there's already fan-made Alphes-style portraits of pretty much every character?

Very doubtful, those picture were being made since IaMP, most likely the reason is to give it a fresh face really.

[Doki-Doki]

Fair enough, either way it's going to be great to see Moe Harukawa do the artwork for the game, hopefully his portrait of Futo won't make her look 7 years old like in HM.

[Suspicious person]

Fair enough, either way it's going to be great to see Moe Harukawa do the artwork for the game, hopefully his portrait of Futo won't make her look 7 years old like in HM.

I'd also love to see manga-ish scenes for parts of the story mode. Especially for the ending. (btw, Moe Harukawa is a "She")

[Quwanti]

I'd also love to see manga-ish scenes for parts of the story mode. Especially for the ending. (btw, Moe Harukawa is a "She")

Those zoom-shots when the character got introduced were a nice touch.

[Doki-Doki]

I'd also love to see manga-ish scenes for parts of the story mode. Especially for the ending. (btw, Moe Harukawa is a "She")

Manga-ish scenes for the story mode would be great, especially for the reveals of the main antagonist/antagonists or important characters.

[Fumi]

Story-wise I could see them being fitted in in some way, it wouldn't exactly be hard. The only problem I see with them returning is that they'd have to relate to some kind of occult phenomenon, which would be somewhat hard for characters who wouldn't relate to urban legends in any way.

Kasen does not use Urban Legends, she uses her normal powers, probably not every character will use them and those who use well, japan is very rich in myths, it could be anything. For example Reimu's Legend is that she uses boundaries to summon stuff.

Also I wonder if the reason ZUN switched artists for ULiL was because there's already fan-made Alphes-style portraits of pretty much every character?

I don't think that's the case but it's interesting to ask why ZUN changed the artwork? Maybe we will see some relation to the manga? Kasen's identity? Mamizou's intentions? Even the manga-ish close ups reference directly the manga. Moe's artwork and Kasen in? It's surprising to see elements of the two current mangas into a game.

[Clarste]

Kasen does not use Urban Legends, she uses her normal powers, probably not every character will use them and those who use well, japan is very rich in myths, it could be anything. For example Reimu's Legend is that she uses boundaries to summon stuff.

Uh... Kasen uses the monkey's paw. All three characters only use the legends in their Last Word. Their normal movesets are all their normal powers. Perhaps there's been some confusion. For the same reason, it'd be incredibly easy to make up an urban legend for any arbitrary character.

[Doki-Doki]

Uh... Kasen uses the monkey's paw. All three characters only use the legends in their Last Word. Their normal movesets are all their normal powers. Perhaps there's been some confusion. For the same reason, it'd be incredibly easy to make up an urban legend for any arbitrary character.

I think an urban legend would have to relate to a character in some way to fit, it wouldn't make sense to give a character a random urban legend, and even then the urban legends in the demo aren't "Made up". Marisa's Last Word links to the Hanako-san in the toilet urban legend, Kasen's links to the Monkey's Paw and Reimu's links to the "Woman in the gap" urban legend. Whilst I can't argue much for Marisa's last word, Kasen's last word would fit her due to her link with animals, and Reimu's last word ~might~ fit her due to her partnership with Yukari in the previous games. Not saying it's fact, just my view on it.

[Clarste]

I would link the monkey's paw to Kasen via her missing arm, but yeah, I have roughly the same feelings. They'll be connected when they can, but if not they'll just throw in something like Marisa's. They have to be in character, but that's a broad limitation rather than a narrow one.

I see it as pretty close to Mamizou turning people into animals in HM. It's not random, but it's more of a free association game than anything strict.

Edit: Kasen's title for the game says she grants wishes, which forms the rumor link, but I don't think that had anything to do with her before this game.

[TheTeff007]

Doesn?t it says The Hermit that Listents to Wishes?