Medaka Box Mafia - Night 4

[Dr Rawr]

i still cant put this together... how does dan being more active and having scum reads over town reads make you want to vote him? its like hes doing the opposite of what you didnt want but youre suggesting that you would want to keep your vote on him anyways?

was hoping you would take the hint lolz

[Sky_Paladin]

Oh right.  Now I get you. 

Yeah, I want to believe that 'active Dan = scum Dan'.  And I may yet switch back there, but I'm not getting a scum feeling from Dan. 

It was an RVS meta vote so I thought "hmm, I can't really make a good case or defend this if challenged" so I felt I should actually scumhunt. 

Instead what happened was I got a prod and Dan is being active, so...we're both off of our normal game.  If I want to make the argument that unusual Dan = scummy, what's to stop others from doing the same to me?  Better stay out of that bad place. 

[Dormio Ergo Sum]

Votecount
CF7 (5): NekoNekoRex, Shadoweh, BT, Zakeri, Kingault
Zakeri (2): ActionDan, Conqueror
Dr Rawr (1): CF7
Shadoweh (1): Serela
NekoNekoRex (1): SB
Serela (1): Bardiche
BT (1): DrRawr
Kingault (1): Sky Paladin
Sky Paladin (1): Sacchi Hikaru
ActionDan (0):
SB (0):
Sacchi Hikaru (0):
Conqueror (0):
Bardiche (0):

Not voting: Nobody
With 14 alive, it takes 8 to lynch.

You have ~36.5 hours remaining.

[Conqueror]

It's a pretty convoluted use of meta to be sure, but I'd find it scummier of him if he were using it as an actual push (which he isn't yet).

But sure, go for it. Lynch me and waste a day.

One vote does not a lynch make. No need to react to a vote in that way.

[NekoNekoRex]

so, where to start here? I guess with my vote.

I feel like CF7 could redeem himself if he just output a little more energy into his posts. They feel really apathetic to me and the way he votes Rawr and tries to give reasoning for it just feels like he's stumbling around. I'd like to see his opinion now that there's a lot more content to go on, especially with regards to Dr.Rawr. I def don't think he's scummy to the point of being irredeemable at this point.

At the same time he's getting wagoned, I don't feel good about his defense either. SB gave him what I feel like is a bit too easy of a pass, using the excuse he's inexperienced and a newbie.

I think CF7 is a townie who posted carelessly and got wagoned for it, tbh

I think the careless posting is exactly why I feel he's scummy, since he generally seems uncaring he has a wagon on him, which I feel is something scum would be more apt to do. His criticism of the wagon is that CF7 is voting based on rawr's playstyle, which doesn't really hold true if you look at the reasoning. As Bard also mentions, he apparently thinks that anti-RVS measures are scummy. Which is wrong. Would switch if he had more recent content.

Zak's post seem pretty alright to me. His CF7 vote isn't too weak and he pushes it a bit while not being hyperagressive, which feels like town intent. His rolespec is at acceptable levels as he's basically arguing more game mechanics then actual "what's the role?" games. Not quite sure why exactly his posts deserve votes. Maybe I'm discounting them too much?

Serela mostly boils down to "Where is the scumhunting?". His posts feel stuck back in RVS and he has no notable content so far. Would lynch.

Kingault screams typical noob. Which he should, since this is his second game. He really does need to look past CF7 though.

I need to soak up this content wave that apparently hit as soon as I woke up, so I'll have opinions on more recent people as soon as I can form them.

Not quite sure if I should move my vote yet, honestly.

[Conqueror]

Zak's post seem pretty alright to me. His CF7 vote isn't too weak and he pushes it a bit while not being hyperagressive, which feels like town intent. His rolespec is at acceptable levels as he's basically arguing more game mechanics then actual "what's the role?" games. Not quite sure why exactly his posts deserve votes. Maybe I'm discounting them too much?

Here's why I'm voting Zak: try to summarize Zak's vote on CF7, and realize you can't beyond that the way CF7 is handling the the pressure on him feels scummy, which would be an alright sentiment if Zak responds to me and tells me what a "townie" way to handle that pressure would be.
Also, pushing a vote while not being hyperaggressive is basically Zak as all alignments.

[Conqueror]

I also wanted to make a post pointing out how much I disagreed with NNR's take on the CF7 issue (his energy and "uncaring about wagon" I feel are more playstyle issues) but I it because it became theory disagreement.

I don't actually have a town read on CF7, for the record; he's more null than to me. But I think that some people are exaggerating their scum reads on him.

[Conqueror]

*but I cut it.

[Conqueror]

*he's more null than anything to me.

I don't know where all these missing words are going.

[BT]

Hi, just posting to apologize on behalf of myself for not being able to post for most of this (real life) day. This is a big deal because the next post will only happen in, like, 16 hours, but I'm hoping this won't happen again.

[SB]

I never said that CF7 was inexperienced/a newbie. I said that he was a townie getting wagoned for bad reasons - there's a difference. Scum are more likely to react to large wagons imo instead of getting apathetic due to a ed1 strong wagon on them.

There's a lot more I should probably respond to but I'm tired so maybe not.

[NekoNekoRex]

I never said that CF7 was inexperienced/a newbie. I said that he was a townie getting wagoned for bad reasons - there's a difference. Scum are more likely to react to large wagons imo instead of getting apathetic due to a ed1 strong wagon on them.

There's a lot more I should probably respond to but I'm tired so maybe not.

I kinda want to argue that you implied it with reasoning he didn't know rawr's playstyle, but I already made the point on that and I don't want to make a "who meant what' argument.

[NekoNekoRex]

Reading Conq as town right now. I don't really have a definitive reason other then that I usually complain about how easy Conq is to read, and he reads town, so that's how I feel about him.

Rawr reads town too,  by virtue of him Playing The Fucking Game like Dan is.

Skypal:

It's a pretty convoluted use of meta to be sure, but I'd find it scummier of him if he were using it as an actual push (which he isn't yet).

Sums his Dan opinion up nicely. I want to see more opinions on other players from him. The Kingault vote is pretty easy and he could use more or better scumreads.

I've been avoiding giving an opinion on Sacchi again since he made a bighuge post too. Not sure how to read him, but I'm leaning town out of gut. Paranoia is a good townie thing to have, and he has plenty of it. I like how well he picked back up from Early RVS.

I don't really have an opinion on anyone else, mostly because I can't read them. I guess my main scumreads right now are CF7, Serela, and SB.

[NekoNekoRex]

I mostly want to see more opinions by the players who haven't posted in awhile, like Shadoweh, CF7, BT, and Zak. Definitely want more opinions from recent people with few opinions too, like Kingault and Skypal. The more scumpicks people have the better along the game moves. I won't just be satisfied anymore with one vote and one scumread. The lock is ticking, folks, and deadline is going to be at 7 AM on Tuesday (EST).

[Shadoweh]

Yeah, I want to believe that 'active Dan = scum Dan'.  And I may yet switch back there, but I'm not getting a scum feeling from Dan. 
Instead what happened was I got a prod and Dan is being active, so...we're both off of our normal game.  If I want to make the argument that unusual Dan = scummy, what's to stop others from doing the same to me?  Better stay out of that bad place.

I'm pretty sure Scum-Dan is even more inactive then Town-Dan actually.

I don't really think my vote was bad at the time I did it, "I think Shadoweh having a townclear on me already seems kinda weird, plus I have meta for strongly buddying up to people who like me apparently" seems like a decent enough reason to vote

if it's because I said "mostly joking" well yeah it's a barely-not-rvs vote and I wanted it to be clear that I'm not actually putting a lot of stock into Shadoweh being scum just for having a townclear on me >:V

Game has been progressing more but I apparently have to go get dragged places because "it would be good for you to leave the house" and sit around bored somewhere so I'll have to pay attention later `-` Vote might be a little outdated but I think it still stands enough, especially considering other people think my stuff so far is pretty bleh so that's arguably evidence Shadoweh's townclear is weird and probably unwarranted

The first part is about what I figured. The second part is you asking to be punched. Since when have I ever cared what other people say about you in making my read on you, that goes against every way I have ever treated you in play. You are being a lazy little butt and apparently need reminding that I will blast you off at the speed of light if you think you can just sit on me all day and leave. I rolled the dice and you're getting remarkably sane and paying attention Shadoweh this game. (That goes to Conq too.)

Active Shadoweh isn't going to be able to post for a few more hours to look in depth at CF7, but Kingault's vote kind of makes me sick to my stomach being here. <_<

[WHMZakeri]

What would be a townie way for him to handle the pressure?

Not getting uppity at the first serious accusation against you? Granted, now that I say it out loud this could just be a personality issue, but between not being able to explain his vote on Dr. Rawr and having not yet found a reason to slam someone else there's no reason to move my vote (Except as of responding to this he's at L-2 which feels like a dumb reason to unvote).

King's floundering in response to Conq's pressure reads sort of townish to me, simply because for as confused he is, he's at least trying to be sincere. When he talks bout saying CF7 is acting like a noob, he's trying to communicate an idea, unlike CF7's vote on Rawr for being "Weird because I don't know."

I don't like Sky's vote on King because it seems opportunist in the way that it's picking on a lesser experienced player for something that he could accuse pretty much anyone of. First impulse was the slam Sky for distracting the argument against him by claiming he isn't voting Dan, but post 151 makes it look like a genuine mistake on his part so now I don't know what to think about that.

Since Conq brought it up, I'll say that I feel like I'm more aggressive as Town than scum, simply because as town I actually have the drive to figure out people's alignments. Actually pushing people as scum is one of the things I need to learn how to do one of these days.

NNR's post reminded me that I haven't seen Serela lately, I'll go look back again.

Cut: 7am EST? I'm not going to be able to make it then because I'll be too busy trying to buy/having bought Atelier Escha&Logy and sleeping

I rolled the dice and you're getting remarkably sane and paying attention Shadoweh this game. (That goes to Conq too.)

I what? Did "to" autocorrect to your own name or something?

[WHMZakeri]

yeah looking the thread over again, I'm going to
##Unvote,
##Vote: Serela
until he develops scumreads that aren't based solely on the fact that someone was nice to him once.

Top scum picks are in order of mention CF7, Sky, and Serela for now. I don't feel like CF7 is going to answer to any more questions just from keeping a pressure vote on him, but I'm still willing to switch back if he doesn't find new scumreads to talk about.

[Sky_Paladin]

In response to NNR; here's what is on my notepad for alerts. 

BT's ascetic claim right up front.  Seems a little unnecessary. 
Bardiche:  "No reason to self vote."  No reason to vote for it either.  Some players like to self-vote, I've seen Dan do it twice and he was town both times.  Bard jumps on this kind of thing all the time though. 
SB says he misread his role pm.  Which unnecessarily says he is a power role.  Scummy. 
Serela suppression of other people without ideas of her own.  Scummy. 
Rawr claiming a role that interacts strangely with BT flavor?
CF7; I feel like his address of NNR's weak vote is scumtwitch and his complaint against Conq is more of a 'its not fair' than anything else.
Kingault; this looks like a scum vote park.

Just did a micro-ISO of Serela, seems like she doesn't really have much to say so far this game.  Normally we get super waffles. 

I guess I want to know what's behind Rawr/BT flavor/role business.  Well of course I want to know, saa, but it seems like we had quite a few players hint they have some kind of role without any pressure at all.  I think it's a really bad strategy because you are basically inviting being hit, and towny players wouldn't do it.  And for SB to misread his role pm enough to self vote seems pretty unlikely. 

I did consider voting for Conq just to test out his hated claim. 

I don't consider Kingault super bad; he is just my strongest pick at the moment.  I think his CF7 vote was bad. 

[Mr. Sacchi]

Sky, you are aware that this is a Role Madness game, right?

Everyone is a Power Role. :derp:

[Dr Rawr]

never claimed such a thing, i just know the flavor of the game so im pretty confident on who bt character is and probably conqs

[NekoNekoRex]

apparently activity in this game only operates on increments of three hours at a time.

[CF7]

I was sleeping and am reading thread now.

[Shadoweh]

Wow, I can't keep my eyes open for more then five minutes.

I what? Did "to" autocorrect to your own name or something?

Is it really that hard to believe I'm not slacking this game? <_< We even agree on some things even if I'm not sure on you yet.

How should i say. It just feels weird. Call it guts. For example SB claimed ascetic. Rawr says that claim is weird based on Rawr's own role. There might be 2 ascetics, sure, but on other hand Rawr never said that he's ascetic. Then there were posts about figuring out roles of some people. It's D1 no info and it's rolemadness so any role can has any alignment and all that. Maybe he's just extremely knowlegable of Medaka Box, i don't know. And all this. I dunno. As i said, weird.

See SB? This isn't playstyle. I looked back before asserting this is the only thing CF7's said, and I've decided this is still unacceptable. This explanation for how Rawr is weird is seriously lacking the step that makes Weird = Scummy. Rawr is rolespecing, and this is scummy because...? It's the kind of case I would expect ScumSerela to make actually. I'm not done reading but I just saw CF7 post so I'm going to put this down for him to respond to while continuing.

[CF7]

Well my Dr Rawr post was made at the time, when i didn't have many reads. I picked it as the one that made sense at the time. He's likely town.
As for people voting for me. Don't really like Kingault jump on the most popular and the only wagon with the reasoning he gave.
Can't say much about anyone else.
Also i'm quite busy at work at the moment.

[SB]

SB: That post is 'weirdy' is not a reason you can hold someone to. It also has nothing to do with player style, really. You're self-supplying what weird means because CF7 didn't explain himself. I don't think Rawr has made a scummy post, so something that superficial and imo wrong isn't going to fly with me.

I made the assumption weird = playstyle based because he didn't actually cite anything and I didn't think rawr was scummy, although I can see why I could be wrong in hindsight.

Conqueror, I agree on your points on CF7 not being scum, but who do you actually think is scum? Your vote just looks like you're trying to get information out of Zak rather than you suspect him.

Not really fond of Sky's vote post, it just looks like an easy option to drop a newbie at this point. What makes Kingault more likely to be scum!newbie than town!newbie?

My Serela opinions are a shameless sheep of what Bardiche has posted, to be honest.

I'm too lazy/busy to finish this post right now so rip.

[Shadoweh]

Well my Dr Rawr post was made at the time, when i didn't have many reads. I picked it as the one that made sense at the time. He's likely town.
As for people voting for me. Don't really like Kingault jump on the most popular and the only wagon with the reasoning he gave.
Can't say much about anyone else.
Also i'm quite busy at work at the moment.

O_o you do realize you're still voting for Rawr, right. I don't get where anyone's town reads on CF7 are coming from. Compared to his righteous anger in the previous game under the same situation, his response here has been downright anemic. I could fall asleep from the apathy.

I would say something in Serela's defense, but still voting me + lurking hard = no remorse. I still think this is within the possibilities of Town Serela. Sacchi's effort post reminded me of Yukari, so unless people start exploding during the day I'm not about touching him for awhile. Kingault's posts are making me go the opposite way. The fake paranoia looks jokey and well, fake, and the comment about wasting a day seems really defensive. I'm not confident on my read on him as a person though, this could just be his quirks. If so I look forward to scumreading you alot every day. <_< At the very least I'm sure enough on Rawr, SB and Dan (though he's lurking again) to feel like this game can go places.

[CF7]

O_o you do realize you're still voting for Rawr, right. I don't get where anyone's town reads on CF7 are coming from. Compared to his righteous anger in the previous game under the same situation, his response here has been downright anemic. I could fall asleep from the apathy.

I do. And well... I can vote for Kingault. But it just doesn't seem right. Even tho his overall posting and jump on my wagon is bad, he's a relatively new player and i well... It just doesn't feel right. Still his reaction to Sky_P vote on him is not too good imo. I mean this part.

But sure, go for it. Lynch me and waste a day.

So, it's either this or blank unvote. Not sure which is worse.
Actually since i have some time since i did most of the work i can read the thread more thoroughly.
##Unvote for now.

[Sky_Paladin]

Hey, Sacchi. I'm just curious. You wrote that Kingault's vote was really bad, but then voted me anyway. Can you please clarify why you didn't vote Kingault?

Re: SB - I don't really know how to distinguish between newb scum and newb town. I just pick scummy and not scummy. For example, I think CF7 is experienced yet lots of people are calling him new. He has more time here than me, so I don't get it.

Phone post so short and no links.

[Dormio Ergo Sum]

Votecount
CF7 (4): NekoNekoRex, Shadoweh, BT, Kingault
Zakeri (2): ActionDan, Conqueror
Serela (2): Bardiche, Zakeri
Shadoweh (1): Serela
NekoNekoRex (1): SB
BT (1): DrRawr
Kingault (1): Sky Paladin
Sky Paladin (1): Sacchi Hikaru
Dr Rawr (0):
ActionDan (0):
SB (0):
Sacchi Hikaru (0):
Conqueror (0):
Bardiche (0):

Not voting: CF7
With 14 alive, it takes 8 to lynch.

You have ~23.25 hours remaining.

[SB]

People who are saying CF7 is a newbie are wrong, but he's still not scummy.

Gonna try and pick up where I left off earlier now I guess.