Touhou NoR Question

[Tyraxx]

Hi everybody,

just wanted to ask a description question to "the Nightmare of Rebellion".
Where are the differences between:
" ...属性の威力 " & " ...属性力 "
" 確率 " & " 成功率 "
" 命中 " & " 必中 "

I hope someone can help me.

[Oh]

" ...属性の威力 " & " ...属性力 "
Ability's effect (or power in direct translation) & Strength of Ability
" 確率 " & " 成功率 "
Probability & Success Rate
" 命中 " & " 必中 "
Hit & Must Hit

Translation from Chinese. I don't play the game.

[Sungho]

I'm rather certain that '属性の威力' changes damage, and 属性力 changes elemental strength (increase in damage multiplier when you hit a weakness).

命中 is just accuracy, and 必中 is when the attack ignores enemy's evasion and lands all hits.
(Instead of being a hit or miss thing, you land less hits to enemies with high evasion)

[Tyraxx]

" ...属性の威力 " & " ...属性力 "
Ability's effect (or power in direct translation) & Strength of Ability
" 確率 " & " 成功率 "
Probability & Success Rate
" 命中 " & " 必中 "
Hit & Must Hit

Translation from Chinese. I don't play the game.

Well, yeah, I know what their meaning is, but as you can see, they are pretty similar.
Still, thank you for your answer.

@Sungho

I'm rather certain that '属性の威力' changes damage, and 属性力 changes elemental strength (increase in damage multiplier when you hit a weakness).

Well, OK, I'm not quite sure.
I was thinking the first changes attribute damage, and the second my abilty stat.

命中 is just accuracy, and 必中 is when the attack ignores enemy's evasion and lands all hits.

Hmm, Okay this makes sense.

Just wondering where's the difference between "probablity" and "success rate".
Well, I already asked Ichigo Bose via mail, but no respond yet.

Also, what does "魔法が暴走するようになる" do.
I don't quite get it.

Thanks

[Sungho]

From what I can see, the term 成功率 is used for status effects.

魔法が暴走するようになる means that magic attacks can also deal critical hits.

[Tyraxx]

From what I can see, the term 成功率 is used for status effects.

Now that you mention it, it really is.
So, it's basically the same meaning.

魔法が暴走するようになる means that magic attacks can also deal critical hits.

Hmm, OK, I just don't get it what "暴走" has to do with critical, since they usually use "必殺", or is that only for phyiscal attacks...?

Well, I just hope I get an answer from StrawberryBose themself, this way I at least have an official answer.
No offense, all your answers make sense and are porbably correct, just saying...

[Sungho]

About 属性力, I don't have any evidence myself,
but for 暴走, the description of the second skill from the sub-dopple 悪路神の火 mentions that 暴走 is something like 必殺.

[Tyraxx]

Hmm, well thank you.
Maybe I'll find out in future.

I'm copying all Doppels in an excel table and list at which lvl they learn what.
And I was going to share it on touhou wiki when it's complete, along w/ it's translations.

(Although I started a bit late with noting their skills down, so some previous lvls of some Doppels are missing...)

[Cjd2524]

Haven't played NoR, but in GoS:

属性の威力 = Elemental Power (not to be confused with Elemental Strength = 属性強度)

Used for Patchouli's Hot Spot Vulcan, Artic Chill, Cluster Move and Heaven Crack.

属性力 =  Elemental Strength (?), in GoS this one is only used for Marisa's Elemental Strength Enhacement Tree.

In NoR = 雷属性の属性力+10 (is this ELE Elemental Strength + 10 ?)

Weapon's also had hidden modifiers but I don't remember if they fell in these categories, emulating hotter Fire, colder Ice, etc.


確率 = Probability (Status Basic % chance of Infliction)

成功率 = Success Rate (Status Final % chance of Infliction)

This was the GoS formula, proper value usage will grant the player status immunity:

  User's IND / 2 - Target's RES * Skill's RES Value / 100 ≦ 0 Then:

    Skill's Basic Probability + ( User's IND / 2 - Target's RES * Skill's RES Value / 100 )


  User's IND / 2 - Target's RES * Skill's RES Value / 100 ≧ 0 Then:

    Skill's Basic Probability + ( User's IND / 2 - Target's RES * Skill's RES Value / 100 ) / 2


命中 = Hit / Accuracy (besides stat, in GoS each Skill had a value assigned, 100 was default user's ACC on skill)

必中 = Ignores all Evasion/Dodge for physical hits (landing hits are guaranteed)

Used in GoS used for Aya's Tengu's Fall Wind, Satori's Acala Sword, and all of Sakuya's Timestopping skills even if not mentioned.

魔力暴走 = Magic Frenzy (in GoS), enables Magic to perform Critical hits, used for Patchouli's and Lithos' Growth tree.

Now that you mention it, it really is.
So, it's basically the same meaning.
Hmm, OK, I just don't get it what "暴走" has to do with critical, since they usually use "必殺", or is that only for phyiscal attacks...?

Because 魔力暴走 is a reference to DQ9, the game is so full of references to other games, if you played GoS you saw the pipes on Stage 15, that's one of the most obvious.

Hissatsu is used for Critical and Kyouda for Slayer, but the game has a lot of terms, some which didn't seem to appear in the entire game.

I am glad multiple Last Words were introduced in NoR, this was really limiting in GoS, but I see there is no way to save and load formation loadouts.

[Tyraxx]

Yes, I know that the game use references.
And yes, I saw the mario pipes in GoS.

Just wondering why they used that term which was not use in any other description.

And thanks for your effeort writing down the stuffs from GoS,
but NoR is much more like DoD.
DoD uses a completely different system as GoS.
(Well, not completely, but a lot are modified ore improved/changed).

And if you played DoD before, you can see that not many elements from GoS are still there,
those which still are there, are also features which were in DoD.

Also, I'm not trying to stick too much to the GoS translation, since some translation are simply self-created words.
Like "Slayer"...

[Cjd2524]

I didn't play DQ9 so I can't give further insight into the reference.

From what I saw DoD and NoR are supposed to have system more akin to FF8's junction system, with sub-doppels being introduced in NoR (and ETH being removed?), if properly implemented this means greater customization, there is a risk of characters becoming blank slates, Last Words played a big role in GoS to determine character usefulness.

There was this one in GoS as well, Kyouka, not to be confused with Kyoudo (強度):

属性の強化: Element Enhance [used in Armors, Accessories, etc., also affects weapons, whereas Land Power doesn't]

追加ダメージ: Added (Element) Damage

Unlike spells, added element damage isn't modified by Land Power but could be enhanced by Element Enhance, ex: Cirno's Weapons.

Also, I'm not trying to stick too much to the GoS translation, since some translation are simply self-created words.
Like "Slayer"...

Well, there was an enemy skill called Smite (強打) already, caused Big Confusion, same kanji so is not like whoever translated Slayer was unaware.

[Serela]

Earth was removed back in Phantasmal Summoners.

[Cjd2524]

Thanks for the clarification. Would anyone know if the content from DoD that was added in patch v1.11 (Valentine's Event) and later removed in v1.12, was reintroduced in the expansion and/or including the following expansion patches (Mine Village, Maw Chauveau anyone ?).

Same for Maroku v2.05 (Tanabata Event) later removed in v2.07, not sure if there were shikigamis associated to this one.

[Serela]

There was no event-exclusive shikigami or even really items, since the ones related to the event were purely for the event, which I think had IRL prizes.

[Cjd2524]

Thanks again, all I needed to know. I was worried it was something like the exclusive retailers' codes in GoS, I believed GoS would get around this late ingame by offering better endgame weapons, at least in the expansion, most of them did but the knives were very lacklustre in comparison, no HP/MP set  for Knives at all (would have helped Satori a lot).

Furthermore, Touhou Quest had characters that could be obtained via code only (if not mistaken), a very important one, given the skill she has I would find hard to miss her.

And last, NoR offers Doppels via code, the Three Fairies, Hong Meiling, and Kasen Ibaraki are the ones I am aware as of now.

[Tyraxx]

Reffering to the Codes:
AFAIK, you were able to get Kokoro in Quest via Code.
I don't know who you can get via codes in NoR, but now that you mentioned these, I remember sawing them on ichigo Bose's site.

I wasn't always interested in the Codes, since it kinda is a bit cheating, and usually they weren't even original Touhou characters.
But now that they are in NoR, I also want them.

The problem always is, where to get the Code...

[Serela]

Oh, codes. Well, DoD had the codes you'd get from wherever you'd bought the game, giving you special shikigami; they were almost all meh-to-useless, but one or two were alright. The nice thing about codes though is you're very likely to be able to find them on the internet if you look. There was also a few other code shikigami and one you got for having the soundtrack, but they were also meh~low-use.

[Tyraxx]

Oh yeah, I'm aware of that, I did use the codes from the internet to get some shikigamis.
But I was actually referring to TouhouQuest and NoR (the topic which this thread actually is about).

TouhouQuest should has only a Code for Kokoro, well it's afterall just a "filler-game".
But I'm not really interested in the previous games (right now).

All I'm concentrating now is on NoR.

(Though I never finished DoD, didn't like the fact that you had so many heroines and you are not able to know which one excels in which stat (except using the inet, of course).)

[Serela]

At this point the thread was basically talking about strawberry-bose games in general :V

Anyway

and you are not able to know which one excels in which stat (except using the inet, of course).)

Of course you can, all you have to do is look at their lv1 stats. They're perfectly proportional... except for the two you unlock in expansion with their boosted low-level stats, I guess <<

[Tyraxx]

And how am I supposed to do that when my party is around 20 and than I get a new character?
I mean, it's not like I note down all the stats of all characters.
And also, a high stat doesn't mean that it will also be that high when the character reaches it's max lvl.

So basically, I need to check their stats on lv1 and lv99 in order to get a good view.
(Of course I can look it up in the internet, but that cannot be in IchigoBose's mind, when they created this.)

Anyways, I'm not playing DoD,... so the discussion actually is not in my interest anymore.
(Except when it's related to NoR)

[Cjd2524]

AFAIK, you were able to get Kokoro in Quest via Code.
I don't know who you can get via codes in NoR, but now that you mentioned these, I remember sawing them on ichigo Bose's site.

That character is a given, is on SB's site, I was refering to Mokou and Xu Fu's Dimension in Quest. As a sidenote Touhou Battle Raiders was supposed to come with a code as well, but I believe that was for use with that game unless I am mistaken, in any case it was only for a Super Aja which is something obtainable ingame.

I would be more interested to know when/where you obtain such gifts after inputting the code, in GoS the items were given right away, in DoD, or at least in the expansion you first input the code and later have to retrieve them ingame, and with Quest is the same. The wiki doesn't seem to hint to any info as to when the recruitment quest becomes available, all I could see is she may have Lv13~14 when recruited (to give an idea how much you need to play).

Same with NoR, I don't know if the Doppels already start in your inventory (doubt), or you later have to retrieve them, the most precise instructions I found were something along the lines of "Play the game".

I wasn't always interested in the Codes, since it kinda is a bit cheating

This is the issue I had with them in GoS, to properly judge yourself you have to finish the game without having any, the items not counting towards game completion seemed to hint they weren't considered part of the game, I have seen many players asking if they should input the codes worried it would break the game's difficulty, making it too easy and the like.

[Serela]

This is the issue I had with them in GoS, to properly judge yourself you have to finish the game without having any, the items not counting towards game completion seemed to hint they weren't considered part of the game, I have seen many players asking if they should input the codes worried it would break the game's difficulty, making it too easy and the like.

The codes make the game easier for like... the first stage after you get them, then the equipment you're picking up is basically the same power. In the expansion when you get upgraded versions, the effects make them decent options in comparison to your other gear, but still nothing all that special. Putting the MP drain dagger on people who can't regain significant MP otherwise is really the only noteworthy thing, and only Satori/Sakuya can make much use of it iirc (Satori being able to use a staff to drain MP just fine instead, to boot); otherwise you should have much better gear to be using already, and it'd drop Sakuya's damage drastically when she had it on, nor does she really need it outside of the endurance dungeon.

Worrying it makes the game easier/using them is unfair is understandable, but in reality it really doesn't matter.

[Cjd2524]

Worrying it makes the game easier/using them is unfair is understandable, but in reality it really doesn't matter.

I agree, mainly because if at any point you feel like they could be worth you can retrieve them, if only those items alone could be dropped it would be a lot easier for anyone to test them themselves and decide. In the other hand I could see beginners being more worried about missing "copies", at the time when gear is really scarce, each piece of equipment is unique in GoS which most of the time can lead to limited loadouts when using a full party.

Anyone knows how NoR's progression is divided ?, I mean in scenarios, stages, quests, hubs, etc., I am not asking for a spoiler heavy answer, just curiosity about the game's structure.

EDIT: nevermind Hub world.

[Tyraxx]

The wiki doesn't seem to hint to any info ...

You can never really rely on the wiki, whether it's the English TouhouWiki or the Japanese atwiki, but it is the site with the most information after all.

That's why I also took the liberty to create the NoR page on Touhou Wiki, and that's why I'm doing my list which states all Doppels along with their skills and which level they learn it, but I need to complete my list more.

BTW, is the max level for Doppels and AttributeStat also 99?

[Validon98]

Max Doppel level is 10, attributes I don't know.

[Tyraxx]

Another question to NoR:
I just had this phenomena, that when Saya wanted to perform a standard attack, she instead performed a "Norito"-like skill.
It looks like she wanted to use a new technique, just like usual with the light-bulb above her head.
But than the skill lookes like a last word skill, with character portait and so...

The skill looked pretty much like "Hajimaru no Norito", and it was also called "[Something] Norito", it probably had the same effect.

I also had this with Mamizou once, she than used a special Tanuki attack.

Did anyone had this phenomena too, and when or why does it happen?

[Validon98]

That's them sparking new Last Words. In the case of Saya, that's an improvement to Dawn of Norito that adds a POW regenerating effect as well. For Mamizou, it's simply an attack. These new Last Words can be used instead of their original ones (or in the case of Saya's, it replaces the old version for boss battles).

[Tyraxx]

WHAAAT???
I can even learn new Last Words, that's awesome.

Well, unfortunately I lost in the boss battle when Mamizou learned the attack, that's why I couldn't figure it out.
(Maybe shouldn't have reset with F12 when I lost that battle, but when I only knew at that time, grrr....)

Anyway, are there any special requirements needed for a character to learn a new Last Word?
And can each character only learn one new last word (Saya two)?

[Cjd2524]

Did anyone had this phenomena too, and when or why does it happen?

Is this what you're searching (Spoilers):

Code: [Select]

http://www59.atwiki.jp/touhou_genmu/pages/26.htmlAs I mentioned in this game characters have multiple Last Words, not sure if it is a new addition or was introduced in a previous game.

[Tyraxx]

OK, I just took  a quick glance on the atwiki page, because I'm not ready for spoiler yet.
But thanks anyway.

(I was going to look for the atwiki page later anyway...)

BTW: I just stumble across a small bug, but somehow suddenly some of my Doppels "passive skills" which are supposed to show "HP" are shown as "hp". Hmm,...