Urist Fortress Mafia - Night 3

[WHMZakeri]

Trapper means the first person to visit who I targeted gets hit. I forgot to mention that.
Like I said, I don't know who I actually hit, so I couldn't actually help piece together what happened last night.

[DNAbc]

I'm the one-shot trapper. I'm pretty much guaranteed to be the fourth NK from last night.
I decided to give it to Shadoweh because I figure town roles are the least likely to target her.
I'm not told when, if, or who sets off my Trap, so I don't actually know who I killed, but I asked yesterday while we were discussing things, and Raikaria confirmed that because of how my ability works, it has highest priority in move order.

More comedy gold massclaim

But before I get onto that let me clarify, I am saying Doriano's rubbish case is okay for the standards of rubbish, I am NOT SAYING THAT I ACCEPT HIS LOGIC, BECAUSE IF I DON'T SAY THIS NOW YOU LAZY PEOPLE WHO GO IGNORE MY ENTIRE WALL WILL JUMP ON ME FOR SAYING THAT. BECAUSE DORIANO'S LOGIC INVOLVE CALLING US TO IGNORE EVERY SINGLE ROLESHEN AND MY DEFENSES, AT THE VERY FIRST SENTENCE.

AND I have already told you even if I am lying as the doctor, which I am not, its irrelevant because time will tell. So the exchange between doriano and me are only good to prove that he's scum who's diverting attention from things which matter.

Let's get back to Zak.

Basically, if zak's claim is true, night actions go like this.

Zak traps Shadoweh, Shadoweh is now a bomb
Cheez jails Shadoweh (bomb), persumably failed, bomb failed to trigger at all
Oarfish tracks Shadoweh (the bomb), sees him visiting conq normally like a boss.
I protected conq, failed
conq's bpv triggered?

So what's wrong in this? I am feeling especially mashocistic today and will therefore sort out all the assumed scenarios for you if everyone's claims are true.

Firstly, Zak's trap goes in highest priority, meaning it overrides even roleblock and jailing.

Hence, if his claim is true, Cheez must be dead already, but Cheez is alive. So Zak has to be lying
-----
Secondly,  if Cheez is a jailer, he roleblocked and protected shadoweh persumably because Cheez claimed he did so
Shadoweh still took action, which is tracked by oarfish, and oarfish has no contradictory role shenegans involved, so he can be trusted.
So Cheez's action must've failed due to a roleblock or busdrive, I shall disprove why cheez is lying also after I illustrate conq's situation
----
Conq is supposedly targetted by 3 people, Doctor(me), Bodyguard(Shadoweh), Killer (SK)
Since conq's bpv triggered in lieu of me and shadow's supposed protection, it means that we are both disabled, a strongman in this scenario is impossible because strongman means certain death. This isn't Rho Aius, you don't block strongman kills with one or two more layers of shields.

So basically, what scum did has to be something like this.
Roleblock or busdrive (the Doctor DNA)/ Roleblock or busdrive (the Bodyguard Shadoweh)/Roleblock or busdrive(the Tracker Cheez)

......
It doesn't really make sense now, does it. And by that I mean its fucking impossible because come on now.

As a result, just merely observing from roleshens alone, we can most definitely conclude zak is lying, and that shadoweh and cheez8 are also likely to be both lying at once or one of them is bluffing
Before Doriano asks, Where is CF7 in your cases Darkninja? You are dropping him! I would like to remind him again CF7 is already confirmed scum with reasons refer to pages 19-21, now leave me alone ty.

Oh right where are we at, why shadoweh and cheez8 are both lying.

Basically, Cheez8 gave alot of incriminating logic and material which adds me to my distrust, which is the nail in the coffin on top of the already overwhelming edvidence of nightactions. For details please again kindly refer to pages 19-21.
(Dude I am literally bored at pointing at those two)

Shadoweh is lying by means of exclusion in terms of exclusion by night actions, details please refer to .....I don't really recall. But just read through D2 again, its definitely worth the read and your time.
-------
And Doriano is a VT in this setup? lolnope

[DNAbc]

3am in here, good night.

[CF7]

Okay. Now that i wasted my one shot ability just to get my point across i guess i feel a little bit better. I won't say anything about any claims, because my is just ridiculous and scummy, so i can judge other claims and i'll leave it to somebody else. And since this debacle is hopefully over, i guess i'll reread all this mess again. Zak claim is kind of suspicious tho. And his sort of lurking behaviour earlier is not in his favor.(Now Darkie is going to say, that it's BS and i'm just jumping at random people).

Cut by wall. This is so dwarven. We're building walls.

[SB]

It's possible that Dan triggered the trap. He was scumreading Shadoweh yesterday iirc?

[Shadoweh]

Did anyone NOT target me last night? <_<
i am not awake enough for this

[Dorian White]

? So you are going to ignore your scumbuddies futzed up claim and backtrack on things? That's so absolutely helpful and not wasting more time diverting attention from the currently super condemning edvidence that is impossible claims. Moreover, my claim logic is easy. Its just outright unreasonable and insane for CF7 to be town doublevoter, that's it.

Oh, you overrated my ability to write such a wall in time that you think it could be an reaction to any thing that happened lately.^^; Also, have you heard about a concept called context? If I make a case on you based on your content then the role claims of other player are of course irrelevant, which doesn't mean that I ignore them. I mean what role implication are there that could affect my read on you anyway? You claimed Doc which is still unproven, Period. You misrepresentation attempt is noticed
Also do you seriously suggest that CF7 is a scum doublevoter with additional chicagovoter as safe claim? Good, we talk about a setup made by Raikaria here, but seriously?

However, this have to do as response for now. You already pointed out that I'm still lacking the bigger picture and I'm sure you will understand that I have better things to do than to engage myself in ?another  time wasting quote war?.
Don't worry, I'll get back to you in good time.^^

[SB]

Anyway I'm the Town Jack of All Trades. I have a Doc/Vig/Cop. I used my Doc night 1 protecting DNA because doc claim, even if his end of phase conduct was really weird I figured the mafia would at least go for the doctor. :/

The vig shot was what made me skeptical of Conq being hit (ANOTHER KILL), and I'm pretty sure I crumbed the fact I had a shot several times .

[Conqueror]

christ, what the fuck is this setup.

if zak is telling the truth about his trap then dan getting killed somehow by the trap is the only scenario that makes sense. admittedly from there I can't really make sense of what happened. dan cheez and oarfish targeted shadoweh and shadoweh was somehow redirected from darkninja to me, but only dan died? that implies the redirect was on the darkninja end (suggesting bus driver) but bussing me and darkninja doesn't make sense and there's still the issue of cheez jailing shadoweh. i have no idea how shadoweh was both roleblocked and tracked at the same time, meaning more redirect shenanigans or lying somewhere, but zak claiming to trap shadoweh means that anyone attempting to manipulate shadoweh on her end would have probably died but instead only dan died?

in conclusion, fuck roles. now we just need serela to claim to complete the madness.

shadoweh is probably sk tbh; bodyguard in this setup is kinda lol with sb's claim just now.

have not read the massive wall wars before this post and i get the feeling i dont want to.

dorian, what do you think about not!darkninja? also did this result in anything?

Next in line to my interest are Zakeri and Shadoweh, mostly because I doesn?t remember anything they did.

[Conqueror]

I'm pretty sure I crumbed the fact I had a shot several times .

Could you point your crumbs out just for completion's sake?

[Conqueror]

except shadoweh can't be sk because cheez claimed to have jailed shadoweh???

SB, why not use the cop n1?

[SB]

I thought the doctor was gonna get killed, so it seemed like an obvious decision to protect him.

There's been no CC and there are AT LEAST 4 killing roles. Something has to stop them.

(i feel like this setup would make more sense if conq is scum, 4+nightkills is sort of ridiculous)

[SB]

I'm pretty sure there's a 1v1 between Cheez and O4rfish though so I dunno if we should ignore roles entirely?

[Conqueror]

darkninja, i read your latest posts against all warning and what I see is
1) zak is lying
2) cheez is lying
3) shadoweh is lying
4) cf7 is confirmed scum
5) dorian is scum diverting attention from things that matter

I am pretty darn confident that there are not 5 scum in this setup. Also, everyone that disagrees with you isn't necessarily scum. Do you genuinely believe everyone you're calling scum now is scum because I can't tell.

[Cheez8]

...aaagh

Nothing makes sense anymore. Normally I end up believing all claimed actions with a grain of salt but this is just impossible to make sense of. I need help.

except shadoweh can't be sk because cheez claimed to have jailed shadoweh???

According to Oarfish she ended up visiting you anyway though, and at this point things have reached a point where somebody absolutely has to be lying and my money is on either Oarfish or Shadoweh to start with. If you ended up hurt, either Shadoweh didn't visit you or Shadoweh isn't a bodyguard.

My money's on Oarfish lying and Shadoweh didn't visit you after all, because according to Darkie, somebody already roleblocked him and I do NOT want to have to factor in the possibility of a bus driver to this mess

I'm pretty sure there's a 1v1 between Cheez and O4rfish though so I dunno if we should ignore roles entirely?

Probably, and I think there's a 1v1 between Shadoweh and Oarfish too.

[Conqueror]

I'm pretty sure there's a 1v1 between Cheez and O4rfish though so I dunno if we should ignore roles entirely?

See here's the thing; I don't see Oarfish!scum coming out with a fake track like that, nor do I see Cheez!scum faking a jail on someone who was publically tracked (unless he forgot?). Even if there's a scum between them, I feel like there are other role shenanigans involved in this. I'd have to reread both players' play to be sure though.

Also, Oarfish, when you got your track result, were you told that Shadoweh visited me, or that your track target did? I'm assuming the former, right?

[SB]

Maybe Shadoweh is Strongwilled Mafia or SK? Strongman wouldn't fit since Conq would just sort of be dead right now but she would still get around Cheez's Jailkeeper.

[Conqueror]

Yeah, I was just about to post that. Strongwilled SK makes sense since I still don't think she's mafia and I think it makes more sense for mafia to have shot sky_paladin instead of me.

[SB]

I guess we could use my role to prove Cheez's? I shoot at him and he hooks me and we see if he turns up dead or not.

Maybe we should just go back to scumhunting over rolegaming.

[Cheez8]

...Huh. I didn't know "strongwilled" was anything that actually existed. So, basically, would that mean Shadoweh's kill would be ensured to go through no matter what, but she's still susceptible to other roles?

If so that would be great if that whole mess actually works out. One less thing to boggle my mind.

[Conqueror]

I guess we could use my role to prove Cheez's? I shoot at him and he hooks me and we see if he turns up dead or not.

Given the likelihood of antitown interference I'd rather you just use the cop because, well, cop.

Maybe we should just go back to scumhunting over rolegaming.

Yeah. I think Dorian is a good vote; I'm not convinced his tunnel on darkninja is genuine.

[SB]

strongwilled roles cannot fail (go through hooks/safeguards, sometimes redirects too) but a strongwilled kill can still be protected from etc

[SB]

Nothing Dorian's posted has stuck out to me so far, although that's not really a good thing I suppose. NNR's one post stuck out like a sore thumb though (and the claim is urk too I guess.)

[Cheez8]

strongwilled roles cannot fail (go through hooks/safeguards, sometimes redirects too) but a strongwilled kill can still be protected from etc

I see.

Also, I'm fine with you testing my claim. Please let me know whether you're using your cop or your kill on me, though! I'll need to know how to cooperate.

[Dorian White]

...
dorian, what do you think about not!darkninja? also did this result in anything?

Unfortunately not much, that Ninja case took me longer than I expected, so I didn't came around to read Shadoweh yet.
And the Zakeri read wasn't actual that productive but there is one thing that makes me wonder, that he was too quiet in the NK discussion when you think about his claim. I mean that he lurks is nothing new but he never struck me as the kind of guy who would hold back vital information if he's town and to know the origin of the third NK is a vital information. His one-shot role had already fulfilled it's purpose so why still keeping it a secret?
Also, why wasn't there even the slightest reaction to O4rfishs tracking result? Doesn't his action lead to the assumption that tracking Shadowh would be fatal?

[Dorian White]

...
Yeah. I think Dorian is a good vote; I'm not convinced his tunnel on darkninja is genuine.

Oh, is there a specific reason why you think so or is it just gut?

[Conqueror]

Gut, mostly. It felt like you went through all his posts with the idea of painting him as scum instead of evaluating them with a neutral mindset and coming to the conclusion naturally.

[Conqueror]

And the Zakeri read wasn't actual that productive but there is one thing that makes me wonder, that he was too quiet in the NK discussion when you think about his claim. I mean that he lurks is nothing new but he never struck me as the kind of guy who would hold back vital information if he's town and to know the origin of the third NK is a vital information. His one-shot role had already fulfilled it's purpose so why still keeping it a secret?
Also, why wasn't there even the slightest reaction to O4rfishs tracking result? Doesn't his action lead to the assumption that tracking Shadowh would be fatal?

Although this is actually a good and valid point.

[Conqueror]

##Unvote
##Vote: Zakeri
I think I want to do this actually, based on what Dorian brought up. Jailkeeper is bound to go before cop in action resolution, so I don't see what possible action resolution would have Dan dying last night and not a hypothetical redirector/bus driver.

His play is very sideliney too.

[Conqueror]

EBWOP: Plus I just realized he got through all this role discussion without having any real scum opinions except vote nnr. And he thinks darkninja is town.

##Vote: NekoNekoRex reasoning has made no changes since last time I voted except for intensifying.

would also want clarification on what this meant because i have no idea how your original reasoning could have intensified given nnr posted literally nothing.