Author Topic: Urist Fortress Mafia - Night 3 (Read 64454 times)

Raikaria · « **Reply #780 on:** January 18, 2014, 08:47:18 PM »

Votecount of the Fluffy Wambler

Shadoweh (1): Dorian
CF7 (1): DNA

Not Voting (6): Conq; CF7; Serela; Shadoweh; SB; Cheez8

With 8 alive; it takes 5 to lynch.

Deadline is here:
http://www.timeanddate.com/countdown/generic?iso=20140121T0002&p0=136&msg=End+of+Day+3&csz=1

CF7 · « **Reply #781 on:** January 18, 2014, 09:21:40 PM »

Hm... We are probably at 5/2/1.
And we still have some time. I'm leaning on voting Shadoweh, but there're some people other people, whom i may vote for. Now sllep.

Dorian White · « **Reply #782 on:** January 18, 2014, 09:44:12 PM »

Quote from: Conqueror on January 18, 2014, 08:31:56 PM

Dorian: Gut via play and Zakeri interactions, plus the fact that she got tracked to me the night I got shot. Her being mafia wouldn't be super surprising, although it would mean I read her wrong initially.
...

Can you give me an example for it?
Also on the Zakeri interactions, any idea why he thought Shadoweh would be a good target to claim as involved as she was in the role stuff?

Conqueror · « **Reply #783 on:** January 18, 2014, 10:24:55 PM »

Quote from: Doriano "The Rat" Grigio on January 18, 2014, 09:44:12 PM

Can you give me an example for it?

Well, if you put it like that, I don't have anything concrete, sorry. :V I just reread Shadoweh's ISO and don't know why I began thinking that in the first place, other than that I thought certain posts felt genuine (thinking darkninja was bs'ing about his claim, actual attempt to make competing wagons to dormio at the end of d1) and that leans more towards sk than scum.

As for why Zak claimed to trap Shadoweh, I have no idea since it just created a bunch of contradictions Cheez's claim etc, although that might have been the purpose. Alternatively, Shadoweh was the only good target he could think of.

DNAbc · « **Reply #784 on:** January 19, 2014, 12:01:48 AM »

Okay, I am already confused about the gamestate.

Let's get the obvious thing sorted out first, SB, we cannot confirm if Shadoweh is lying atm until he flips, but as long as Shadoweh's claim is true there's a scum busdriver on their team, they get profit just by redirecting you to anyone who's not themselves. Your night results are not something I would put faith into a lynch as opposed to a vig shot which would at the very least turn up a modconfirmed flip info even if redirected

Then its to Dorian.
Honestly, the way you posts reminds me of those crazy CNN conspiracy interviewers who chew out middle east countries diplomats and sound cool by just repeating everything else in the AMERICAN MIND while gleefully ignoring any counterarguments the opposition brought up.

It is me myself who brought up that I am fully aware of how unhelpful roleshens is not helping town, hence is the reason I stopped after I realized it. I hardly think that you would miss it because my whole post there was concluded literally with ''I did stupid crap, which Serela snapped me out of it''. But since you would just prefer to go OMGUS on one single moot point instead of arguing back why a scum doctor would neither claim D1 nor claim protection on a player with a shitton of night action interactions just so for the sake of pulling attention to himself well I guess you keep doing what you want to do.

*PS: Doriano by the guy who's tunneling on me and showing minimal concern to the rest of the gamestate I am referring to you.

I don't think the zak extra kill would be used on me because I claimed I can protect myself every night as opposed to every non-consecutive night. From the wording, his ability apparently only works when someone targets someone else and used their ability already, I would hardly conclude that its a strongman kill that can smash through doc protection. Maybe conq can explain it better to us, because I can only gather so much upon rereading of Zak's flip, how did you even draw a conclusion that some doctor who claimed to self protect is a feasible target for that specific abilityl is beyond me.

Shadoweh · « **Reply #785 on:** January 19, 2014, 12:03:35 AM »

I dunno, I mean, what's my motivation here? You haven't even given me an idea of why being the SK would keep me alive here.
Like, if you think I'm the SK then you think I tried to kill you, so I don't get why you'd want me to be alive to keep doing that?
(btw you missed the joke which is that I actually can't, so etc)

Serela · « **Reply #786 on:** January 19, 2014, 12:40:21 AM »

you say "so the cop result is unreliable because busdriver" but didn't Raikaria say when answering the question that people who get a report back like a cop will know who they actually targetted?

Conqueror · « **Reply #787 on:** January 19, 2014, 01:11:09 AM »

Quote from: Darkninjaabc on January 19, 2014, 12:01:48 AM

Maybe conq can explain it better to us, because I can only gather so much upon rereading of Zak's flip, how did you even draw a conclusion that some doctor who claimed to self protect is a feasible target for that specific abilityl is beyond me.

Because Sky_Paladin claimed vig, and given that you said you believed his claim, any reasonable doc would have protected the vig. And yes, Raikaria said earlier that investigative roles will know when they are redirected.

Quote from: Shadoweh on January 19, 2014, 12:03:35 AM

I dunno, I mean, what's my motivation here? You haven't even given me an idea of why being the SK would keep me alive here.
Like, if you think I'm the SK then you think I tried to kill you, so I don't get why you'd want me to be alive to keep doing that?
(btw you missed the joke which is that I actually can't, so etc)

Are you asking me what your motivation to try in this game is? :derp: :derp: :derp: :derp: Look, the least you could do is say who you think is scum.
Also I'd rather lynch mafia over SK today because assuming 5/2/1 lynching mafia brings us to 3/1/1 worst case scenario tomorrow with chance of crosskills while lynching SK gives us 4/2 tomorrow which is harder to win.

Conqueror · « **Reply #788 on:** January 19, 2014, 01:13:41 AM »

Quote

##Ambush: Lurk outside a target?s room for the night. If they leave their room, you?ll ambush them and kill them. Unfortunately, you?ll get found out if you ?volunteer? for patrol duty twice in such a short time, so this is a one-shot. Even the Urists are smart enough to notice something is up if you volunteer for patrol too often!

This ability kills the target if the target leaves their room at night. And like I said, the number of docs who would self-protect in that situation with other claimed prs out there is close to nil.

Serela · « **Reply #789 on:** January 19, 2014, 01:14:55 AM »

Post where Raikaria answers questions: http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,16152.msg1062025.html#msg1062025

(yes, they know who their target is even when redirected)

"I want to lynch Mafia over SK" doesn't seem like a sentiment worth caring about because how do we know if a liar is actually an SK-liar or Maf-liar anyway? Darkie didn't want to lynch Zak over CF7 because he thought Zak was probably an SK and not mafia, and Zak flipped scum. Let's just happily lynch anyone who seems to be an anti-town alignment >_>;

Conqueror · « **Reply #790 on:** January 19, 2014, 01:16:27 AM »

(Zak being SK was impossible because if he was SK then he'd be accounting for both his extra kill and his SK kill) :V

I do get your point though.

DNAbc · « **Reply #791 on:** January 19, 2014, 01:35:55 AM »

Quote from: Conqueror on January 19, 2014, 01:13:41 AM

Because Sky_Paladin claimed vig, and given that you said you believed his claim, any reasonable doc would have protected the vig. And yes, Raikaria said earlier that investigative roles will know when they are redirected.
This ability kills the target if the target leaves their room at night. And like I said, the number of docs who would self-protect in that situation with other claimed prs out there is close to nil.

I don't really grasp what do you refer to ''that situation'', but far as I recall D1 concluded with me, dormio and sp claiming. I do not really know how does your mentality works. But I have stated at that point that my internet is down and my communication is limited severely. I also did claim that I am going to self protect.

Moreover, I didn't even know beforehand that the vig shot is going to be the slowest kill, for I kind of expect skypal to just shoot someone and prove his claim. Elsewise I am kind of okay to just let him fall because I only trusted his claim enough to the degree that I am not willing to stir up shit on a tiny phone just to get you all back to lynch him (as it requires too much effort on my part for a D1), allow me to remind you that skypal was a counterwagon until he claimed, and arguments questioning his scumminess are not lacking. At that point conq does look like an appealing target to scum anyway so logically I covered the guy who wasn't acting all that suspicious all D1 and has more reason to be trusted as town.

Or are you referring to what counts as logical in a scum's mind? I am sorry, but it is really beyond my capability to explain paranoia. I did deliberately leave a message to state that I am going to self protect first thing, but whether they decided to buy it or not is up in the air. This is exactly the reason why its a gambit. Apparently they just did it, and I am not really the one whom you should be asking for a justification out of.

Oh, and referring to the investigative roleshens I was merely listing an example off my head why a flip is better than a cop result by any degree. Sure, a bus driver might not even be there, but my point goes to show that in the ''rare'' scenario scum are provided either active or passive investigation immunity in an unlimited cop, tracker and joat setup who can indirectly screw with the result still stands, conceding sb will know if he got redirected by a bus driver doesn't dismantle my argument at all.

DNAbc · « **Reply #792 on:** January 19, 2014, 01:42:39 AM »

tldr why ask me things I will not be able to answer anyway just to make me look bad, don't you have better and more helpful things to do such as actually acknowledging my logic and concede that there is little to pushing for my lynch aside from *~GUT~*?

Conqueror · « **Reply #793 on:** January 19, 2014, 02:34:22 AM »

I'm not asking you anything, I'm making a point and thinking out loud in the thread. You can't answer it just like I can't answer the accusation BUT BP WOULD BE USEFUL FOR SCUM.

And yes, I'm talking about the logical scum move. If you are town doc, scum would assume you are going to protect the vig instead of yourself and so you'd be a good target for Zak's power.

##Vote: Shadoweh
At least darkninja is trying.

Cheez8 · « **Reply #794 on:** January 19, 2014, 02:36:12 AM »

Sorry about not posting for so long. It's 8:30 PM and I've still only gotten myself half-awake.

Kind of sad to say that I'm not exactly in a state of mind to actually gather anything from any discussions so far. I'm going to hope to get a better night's sleep tonight and actually realize things come tomorrow. At the moment, I'm not even sure what questions Darkie's complaining about being asked.

Cut by Conq. Well, that clears that up.

Cheez8 · « **Reply #795 on:** January 19, 2014, 02:40:03 AM »

Oh yeah, I did notice I was interested in CF7 because of things that point both directions with him, but that doesn't really mean much until I figure out what it means. I think it's just that they have the most things that point towards different alignments or something and it's the sort of thing I'd be really happy to try to figure out and hopefully it won't end in me waffling or something.

I don't know what I meant to convey by this.

Conqueror · « **Reply #796 on:** January 19, 2014, 02:40:36 AM »

Quote from: Darkninjaabc on January 19, 2014, 01:42:39 AM

tldr why ask me things I will not be able to answer anyway just to make me look bad, don't you have better and more helpful things to do such as actually acknowledging my logic and concede that there is little to pushing for my lynch aside from *~GUT~*?

Okay, if you want it spelled out. The reasons for people wanting your lynch are thus.
1) Bad logic; changing of opinions at such frequent intervals and with such conviction that it's hard to tell what you actually believe at what time.
2) Overemphasis on role shenanigans and filling the thread with role cruft when there are so many role possibilities that speculation is useful only half the time and you contradict yourself so many times in your own speculation that it's frustrating to read.
3) Who do you even think is scum? Yeah, you're voting for CF7 because "he hammered his scumbuddy." Why? And who else is scum? You can't just say that 5 people are scum and leave it at that because at this point there are at most 3 scum of various factions left. A lot of your posts are backed up with rhetoric. There are cases sometimes, but they're so varied and contradictory that they're hard to follow.
4) If you like role shenanigans, a doc claim in tandem with a jailkeeper, joat with a doc, bp, and bodyguard (although i assume the last claim is false) is pretty darn funky, although inconclusive

Conqueror · « **Reply #797 on:** January 19, 2014, 02:43:05 AM »

5) Also shows proof of having not read the thread. For example:

Quote

*PS: Doriano by the guy who's tunneling on me and showing minimal concern to the rest of the gamestate I am referring to you.

saying this when dorian is voting shadoweh
and numerous other examples

Seriously, it's tiring.

Serela · « **Reply #798 on:** January 19, 2014, 02:48:39 AM »

Yeah, Darkie is trying, but the effort is just -so ridiculously misguided- as pointed out by Conq that half of my desire to lynch him is so I don't have to keep reading all of it for the sake of trying to tell whether he's town or scum.

BigBangMeteor · « **Reply #799 on:** January 19, 2014, 02:51:31 AM »

Quote from: Conqueror on January 19, 2014, 01:13:41 AM

This ability kills the target if the target leaves their room at night. And like I said, the number of docs who would self-protect in that situation with other claimed prs out there is close to nil.

"leaves their room" is just flavour; Raikaria can c/d this later but I'm pretty sure that this would still kill someone who didn't target another person.

DNAbc · « **Reply #800 on:** January 19, 2014, 02:52:25 AM »

thats why i am using the term tunnelibg as opposed to wagoning.....

anyway i get your point about my posts being messy and frustrating hence unappealing to read, will get back to this later when i am home

Serela · « **Reply #801 on:** January 19, 2014, 02:59:21 AM »

It's not just that, you'll use bad logic (such as when you were accusing Conq of being SK because of the night action things he had suggested, and saying that "that's wrong and you must be SK since you're saying it", when what Conq was saying was actually an accurate representation of SK vs. Mafia things) with such powerful conviction and rock-hard certainty it's just, what

I mean, it's okay to be wrong! And we can point things out to you afterwords and get everything sorted out! But you do it so seriously and powerfully with the strangest things ;_;

Serela · « **Reply #802 on:** January 19, 2014, 03:04:07 AM »

part of the reason that example is so ;_; is because even if it -was- wrong, HOW WOULD THAT MAKE HIM MORE LIKELY TO BE AN SK ANYWAY

It's like when people get lynched for suggesting we no lynch d1, that's not scummy, scum aren't going to seriously try to get people to go along with that, it's bad logic but -why would scum actually try to do that- (over town) because it's not like it would EVER happen on purpose

BigBangMeteor · « **Reply #803 on:** January 19, 2014, 03:27:12 AM »

Quote from: BigBangMeteor on January 19, 2014, 02:51:31 AM

"leaves their room" is just flavour; Raikaria can c/d this later but I'm pretty sure that this would still kill someone who didn't target another person.

This might be wrong actually; wait for Raikaria.

Dorian White · « **Reply #804 on:** January 19, 2014, 05:58:01 AM »

Quote from: Darkninjaabc on January 19, 2014, 12:01:48 AM

...
Then its to Dorian.
Honestly, the way you posts reminds me of those crazy CNN conspiracy interviewers who chew out middle east countries diplomats and sound cool by just repeating everything else in the AMERICAN MIND while gleefully ignoring any counterarguments the opposition brought up.

Is that so? I mean that's kinda funny, cause that's exactly the impression I get from you.
However, since talking to you dosen't gets us anywhere apparently, then how about ... singing?

It's not easy having yourself a good game!
Greasing up those docs and trackers~
Watching out they don't vote better~
Vote and vig you both in the same game!
Seems like some game I've forgotten~
Town cred gone and now it's rotten~

I'm not a roleblocker tonight!
Don't want to get a scum role~
I'm just a loner baby!
And now you've taken my toll!

I can't decide~
Whether you should live or die~
Oh, there's prolly a Dead QT~
Please don't ##unvote and cry~
No wonder why
My role feels dead inside!
Unhelpful and wasting time~
Skip the days and let's rewind~
We're going for a ride!

It's a bitch convincing myself to like you!
If I stop now call me scum for true~
If lies were cats you'd be K4U~
Pleasing everyone isn't like you!
Dancing claims that don't have merit~
Slug ten drinks and leave it to Conq~

I've got to hand it to you!
You've played by all the same rules~
It takes to lurk to fool me!
And now you've made me angry~

Oh I could ##vig you in the lake
Or feed you ##poison birthday cake
I can deny I just won't miss all this WIFOM!
Oh I could ##bury you alive
But you might crawl out and stop time
And ##kill me when I'm sleeping!

Shadoweh · « **Reply #805 on:** January 19, 2014, 07:02:12 AM »

I already did a town rendition of that song when we were in a hydra. THIEVERY AND PLAGARISM

CF7 · « **Reply #806 on:** January 19, 2014, 07:54:26 AM »

Hummm... Okay first a bit logics. It's a little bit of self-defence for Darkie.
When i activated my double vote i used precisely this phrase.
"By the Divine Right of Amok; Highest Dwarven God; and the God of Blood; hear my words today!"
I assume that all non-towns are not dwarves, i.e. goblins or something. Also i assume it would be incredibly weird if Amok could answer a prayer of non dwarf.

Now a bit more logic.
Here he's ranting about roles, how we all have crazy roles, but Doriano is a VT. IMPOSSIBURU!!
But yet he never questioned Serela's claim as a VT. And that's second VT in the setup. Shouldn't that be even more impossible?

Not sure how i feel about all this. Maybe we should lynch DNA, because it was stated multiple times, that he believed Sky_P claim, and didn't protect him that night. Because protecting anyone else over Vig is better. Not really town!doc mentality.

Serela · « **Reply #807 on:** January 19, 2014, 03:27:00 PM »

Mafia having a doc could definitely make sense in this setup and as said DNA's done plenty of weirdo weird stuff that can definitely be seen as beneficial for the scum agenda as people have already stated, with his meta being able to tooootally let him get away with it. (And DNA in his past scumgame said at the end of the game that, yes, his duty was to be weird, so he abused his meta to breeze through)

Actually yeah.

##Vote Darkninja123abc (or whatever the heck it was, you know)

Dorian White · « **Reply #808 on:** January 19, 2014, 03:58:04 PM »

Quote from: Shadoweh on January 19, 2014, 07:02:12 AM

I already did a town rendition of that song when we were in a hydra. THIEVERY AND PLAGARISM

Yes you did, which I used as a reference. Am I scum now for ~~stealing~~ borrowing your song or is there anything else you like to add?

@ CF7: Flavor doesn't hold that much implication, I doubt that Raikaria, or any other mod, would give someone a anti-town command when he has to use it in the thread.
And no, Ninja put Serela in his ?priority list? right between me and Cheez. He wasn't as vocal about Serela as he was about me but the claim earned both of us the same suspicion.

Also: That Ninja didn't protected Sky is a point against him that I can't actually agree with. If I'm not mistaken then his position on Sky that night can be summed up as: ?I trusted Skys claim enough to vote Dormio over him but not enough to give him first protection priority.? It may contradict the emphasis that he puts on roles later bu still having doubts about the claim of someone you suspected makes way more sense to me than Shadowehs instant 180? turns.

Serela · « **Reply #809 on:** January 19, 2014, 04:17:34 PM »

I wouldn't have doc'd paladin either because vig is a typical claim for trying to live just -one more day- before you're outted. If you're doomed, you're doomed, and getting one more mislynch in first is cool.

It's practically a blessing the scum killed him instead of just disabling his role and letting us worry about whether -we- have to kill him or not.