Author Topic: Urist Fortress Mafia - Night 3  (Read 64967 times)

DNAbc

  • mafia is suffering
  • but I don't exactly hate that
Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 2
« Reply #690 on: January 16, 2014, 05:57:52 AM »
With how Serela is acting now basically I now have a reason to somewhat trust shadoweh more with his bodyguard claim.

because holy shit serela making common sense.
By any degree, cf7/cheez/ dorian or serela being scumteam is confirmed
and Zak fessing up for responsibility in the kill also just points to him being sk because scum most certainly won't do that.

FAKE EDIT: By any degree cf7/cheez/ dorian or serela or shadoweh being scumteam is confirmed
>Link to my Steam Account: Add me! http://steamcommunity.com/id/9898981-02
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Serela

  • Moon Tiara Magic
  • VIA PIZZA SLINGING
Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 2
« Reply #691 on: January 16, 2014, 06:01:10 AM »
aww jeez I stayed up until 1am again, going to bed after this post

Quote
unlike you who would like to dwell endlessly on paradoxes and assume everyone isn't lying
Only time I did that was when advocating massclaim.

Conq:Gaming the setup when you can is something you can't just not do, but the thing is, you -can't- reliably try to game the setup with information that's this convoluted :V

Darkie how about you bring it up again tomorrow? There'll probably be like three more flips, maybe one will even be not-town, and another set of night actions to compare with. Trying to make any sense of things will be much, much easier and more reliable compared to how it is right now.

Although, if people other then me think consolidating onto Cheez with you is a good idea, then :shrug: I've voiced my discontent, so my resistance is about over!

cut by why are all these serious scumteam sets even... nevermind. Going. To. Bed. It's mind-boggling that I'm actually being assumed scum by Darkie just because I'm saying the massively convoluted mess that was n1 isn't good to try to rolegame off.  :getdown:
<mauvecow> see this is how evil works in reality, it just wears you down with bureaucracy until you don't care anymore

Serela

  • Moon Tiara Magic
  • VIA PIZZA SLINGING
Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 2
« Reply #692 on: January 16, 2014, 06:02:18 AM »
oops I tried to use the :getdown: emoticon after disabling emoticons so the :V wouldn't turn into one
<mauvecow> see this is how evil works in reality, it just wears you down with bureaucracy until you don't care anymore

Cheez8

  • Derp Imminent
Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 2
« Reply #693 on: January 16, 2014, 06:03:40 AM »
Darkie, I don't even know what to say about you anymore. Words fail me. I'm just going to ask why you keep insisting -anybody- is confirmed scum. You've done that to at least four different players during this game (probably more) and you're currently doing that to somebody with a double vote.

Why.

Also you bring up balance issues to peg me as scum but allow me to remind you that
1) all three factions in this game have kills that could all happen each and every night
2) you are far from being the towniest player in this game and nobody, least of all me, is obligated to trust you

I can see the possible necessity of an extra protective role that isn't just a one-shot deal. That's the main reason I've ever kept from voting you today, in fact. But your logic is absolutely horrid and you continue to push whoever you fancy with such a smug, disrespectful attitude, evidently without allowing yourself to consider any alternatives to what you accept as "confirmed", even if those alternatives are much more rational than the supposed truth you present.

I find it hard to believe that the only full protective role in this game would be hampered by being a Jailer, especially in a game where the town has so many useful roles.

But you and your behavior are seriously trying my conviction.

I'll read all these cuts later.
Someday, I'll have a clue what I'm doing.

O4rfish

  • something seems fishy
  • paranoia 4 lyfe
    • Ask an Oarfish!
Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 2
« Reply #694 on: January 16, 2014, 06:04:09 AM »
er, if that was too vague; without getting into the Cheez8 part (basically, we can't even assume cheez8 even hit Shadoweh at all last night, or that Zakeri's trap hit Shadoweh either) just on Zakeri, you're assuming he's third party based on what he claimed.

But, if Zak is third party, there's no reason to believe the role he claimed is actually his killing method. (the one shot part at the very least would have to be a lie; but the entire thing very well could be.)

Too many of the actions from last night very obviously didn't work as we've been told, so we just can't trust that any of them did as said. We don't know the setup.

Cut by Darkie. Skimmed. Don't care. Night actions are too much of a mess, almost anyone could be lying and there's multiple ways the scumteam could have acted to screw things up, and there very well may be an unconventional role screwing it all up.

Gaming. Setups. Is. Risky.

Gaming the setup when you only have one night of actions and they don't make the slightest bit of sense sends the risk into "why the fuck are you even trying" territory.

If anything that's been assumed is wrong, which is highly likely, you pretty much just took a blind shot in the dark with the lynch.

Let's, you know, lynch people the standard way. CF7 and Zakeri have done some scummy shit, let's lynch them. Game the setup later when there's more flips for confirmed roles and more sets of night action data to look at.

Sorry, on phone so quoting whole post.
This is a good point about trusting a third party that I didn't realize earlier. I haven't gone back and examined SB's case on CF7, but I am assuming it is still valid, seeing as it doesn't rely on role interactions.

Still not understanding why there are so many people claiming things that don't straight-up align with what o4rfish claims. Shadoweh, Cheez8, and Zak all claim things that would require some extra stuff to line up. I might even suspect o4rfish, except I 100% know he's telling the truth and is town dwarf furthermore. Cut by 7
[9:49:09] <Purvis> Generally not, but your mother may be an exception.

Conqueror

  • Here I am, dirty and faceless
  • waiting to heed your instruction
Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 2
« Reply #695 on: January 16, 2014, 06:05:22 AM »
Darkninja I have no idea what you're saying since your "confirmed scum" scumteams keep changing every few posts or so.

Here's my take on the role shenanigans. Shadoweh is probably Not A Bodyguard (I have her down as probable SK) since now after the role explosion she's shaking her head and going I DUNNO WHAT HAPPENED. Well shit, none of us do, but at least people are trying to figure stuff out. Plus bodyguard makes as much sense in this setup as in the 3 SK setup.
Zak is probably scum and lying about the specifics of his action. Trapper is the only nonstandard role in this game so far. Yes, I know Raikaria read the previous Dwarf Fortress game here, but it's a hell of a coincidence that after I mentioned Trapper in passing earlier as one of the roles possible for making an extra kill, Zak claims such a role.
Cheez...well, jailer plus doc is pretty funky and there's the contradiction between his and Oarfish and I trust Oarfish more. If I were to lynch solely off role shenanigans I'd start here but I would have to actually reread first to see if it makes any sense at all.  :derp: It's possible that one of the protective claims (jailer/doc/joat) is a scum role, since protection would be incredibly useful for scum in this setup.
That's about as much roleslop as I can manage before the words on my screen start blurring.


On tue un homme, on est un assassin. On tue des millions d'hommes, on est un conqu?rant. On les tue tous, on est un dieu.
Every saint has a past and every sinner a future.

Conqueror

  • Here I am, dirty and faceless
  • waiting to heed your instruction
Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 2
« Reply #696 on: January 16, 2014, 06:08:20 AM »
Zak pushing Cheez solely on rolestuff isn't making me feel better about that lynch fwiw.


On tue un homme, on est un assassin. On tue des millions d'hommes, on est un conqu?rant. On les tue tous, on est un dieu.
Every saint has a past and every sinner a future.

Conqueror

  • Here I am, dirty and faceless
  • waiting to heed your instruction
Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 2
« Reply #697 on: January 16, 2014, 06:10:08 AM »
Also, this is, uh, basically the first time I've dealt with the Jailer role. Now that I can ask, I should be trying to protect active contributors who don't have power roles, right? Or should I be using it to roleblock people I don't trust every so often, even if I risk accidentally saving them?

Wondering: Cheez, what were you aiming for with your Shadoweh jail/why Shadoweh?


On tue un homme, on est un assassin. On tue des millions d'hommes, on est un conqu?rant. On les tue tous, on est un dieu.
Every saint has a past and every sinner a future.

Cheez8

  • Derp Imminent
Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 2
« Reply #698 on: January 16, 2014, 06:15:52 AM »
Wondering: Cheez, what were you aiming for with your Shadoweh jail/why Shadoweh?
Most of it was that I didn't want to roleblock Paladin, and while I didn't really trust you or Darkie and considered roleblocking either of you, I figured I didn't want to accidentally save either of you, either.

That basically narrowed the list down to a bunch of nulls and I looked at it and thought "Well, Shadoweh's a good mafia player. If there's anybody either part of my role would be useful on it's probably her."

If this is a terrible way to play Jailer (and it probably is,) please let me know what the proper way is.
Someday, I'll have a clue what I'm doing.

Conqueror

  • Here I am, dirty and faceless
  • waiting to heed your instruction
Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 2
« Reply #699 on: January 16, 2014, 06:27:52 AM »
There's no proper way, really. Roleblock scum or try to save an important townie, it all depends on context.

Who are you thinking for scum right now, just wondering?


On tue un homme, on est un assassin. On tue des millions d'hommes, on est un conqu?rant. On les tue tous, on est un dieu.
Every saint has a past and every sinner a future.

Cheez8

  • Derp Imminent
Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 2
« Reply #700 on: January 16, 2014, 06:47:16 AM »
Well, at least Zak, but otherwise... Any of Darkie, Shadoweh, or Dorian, I guess, with you being the SK if Shadoweh is scum instead. I'm starting to view Darkie as more and more of a counterclaim especially with the roleblock that he's hogging to explain why his protection didn't go through. Even ignoring anything else, I don't buy Shadoweh's bodyguard claim. While vanilla townies aren't out of the question, Dorian's way of ignoring so many players doesn't really instill confidence, and a VT claim would definitely be an easy way for scum to take advantage of the situation.

You could possibly be scum too but right now I still don't think you're too suspicious for some reason that I really ought to pay more attention to. Oarfish I've been considering on and off but even though the tracker claim sparked a lot of the confusion, their posts don't really seem to have ill intent in them.

Serela is town, SB is probably still town, CF7 is averaging out to null/waffle status for me.

Sorry about posting my reads about every single player, by the way, but it felt good just to be able to ignore role conflict debates for a while, step back, and figure out for myself where I actually stand on things. I kinda got carried away.
Someday, I'll have a clue what I'm doing.

Raikaria

  • Do Tank Girls Dream...
  • *
  • Of Floating Eyeballs?
Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 2
« Reply #701 on: January 16, 2014, 09:01:22 AM »
Votecount of the Cut Garnet

Darkninjaabc (3): Shadoweh;  CF7; CF7
CF7 (3): SB; Darkninjaabc; Serela
Zakeri (3): Conq; Cheez8; Dorian
Cheez8 (1): Zakeri

Not Voting (1): O4rfish

With 11 votes in play it takes 6 to lynch.

Deadline is here:
http://www.timeanddate.com/countdown/generic?iso=20140117T0953&p0=136&msg=End+of+Day+2

24 hours 51 mins remain.


http://www.malevole.com/mv/misc/tribute/
I don't even remember who put the above in my sig. [Wasn't me] Nor do I understand why I keep it here anymore.
Those two facts sum me up pretty well.

O4rfish

  • something seems fishy
  • paranoia 4 lyfe
    • Ask an Oarfish!
Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 2
« Reply #702 on: January 16, 2014, 09:09:32 AM »
Hey Raikaria, if we had only nine players alive, and assuming someone was legit double voter, would the extra vote change the req from five votes to six votes?
[9:49:09] <Purvis> Generally not, but your mother may be an exception.

Shadoweh

  • I will ahn~ vote count for you
  • *
  • The STRONGEST Day Effect
Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 2
« Reply #703 on: January 16, 2014, 09:52:08 AM »
Why do people think I'm actually good at mafia anyways?
Also the last game of mafia I played that is sticking with me involved two fake guilties, I'm all game the setup'd out right now. I'm probably not going to bodyguard anyone anymore since apparently there are more non-mafia killers then there are mafia. >_> Since apparently I'm not TRYING ARD NUFF TO GAME THE SETUP: Zakeri has to be telling the truth because there's no other claimed source of the fourth kill. Cheez's action is possible if Cheez himself was roleblocked and both Dan and Oarf visited me, since they're both investigative they probably both had near-same priority and Dan took precedence because people have to act before Oarfish can see where they're going? Or something like that. My face is still cold from non-blanket exposure.

##Unvote I just woke up from face on keyboard so words are hard but i guess the most likely thing is he ended up targetting himself so, lol?
##Vote: CF7 This is literally the only case that doesn't have the words 'role' involved in them, also if Dark really is town it means he used the confusion to double-vote the doc when there was a good chance of him getting lynched.


Kitten4u: "I'll say it plainly: THERE IS NO WAY SHADOWEH IS SCUM!" - A Balanced Game of Mafia

Raikaria

  • Do Tank Girls Dream...
  • *
  • Of Floating Eyeballs?
Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 2
« Reply #704 on: January 16, 2014, 09:53:58 AM »
Hey Raikaria, if we had only nine players alive, and assuming someone was legit double voter, would the extra vote change the req from five votes to six votes?

Yes; since the number of mobile votes in play changes the threshold.


http://www.malevole.com/mv/misc/tribute/
I don't even remember who put the above in my sig. [Wasn't me] Nor do I understand why I keep it here anymore.
Those two facts sum me up pretty well.

Dorian White

  • The most handsome non-vampire diplomat you ever encountered ~
  • With a Gandalf like evolution.
Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 2
« Reply #705 on: January 16, 2014, 11:18:57 AM »
...
I wasn't keeping it a secret, the idea of claiming didn't occur until after I left for bed last night. Also my claim didn't really add anything until massclaim happened, everybody had already figured out there were four possible NKs on night one. Besides, "I shot somebody but I don't know who" doesn't really feel like a good way of confirming my status as functionally vanilla town.
Good, given that you thought your role wouldn't add much to the discussion. I can't agree with it but I can understand that to some degree.
What I still don't understand, and that's the point you missed, is your reaction to O4rfishs tracking result. You knew that you turned Shadoweh into a trap, now O4rfishs comes up saying ?I tracked Shadoweh? and all you have been wondering about is who Shadoweh targeted and the implication of a possible busdriver, which implicates that you never considered the option that O4rfishs could have triggered your trap. The jailkeeper had not claimed anything by that time and I don't think that you considered Dan either, cause if I were as concerned about the "I shot somebody but I don't know who" dilemma as you said you were then I would make sure to accompany my claim with the best guess I could offer but that assumption didn't came from you in the first place.
So, what made you sure that  O4rfishs couldn't have triggered the trap?


@Mod: In which order would the abilities of jailkeeper, tracker and cop occur?
Bella gerant alii, tu felix Gensokyo nube. Nam quae Mars aliis, dat tibi diva Venus.

Raikaria

  • Do Tank Girls Dream...
  • *
  • Of Floating Eyeballs?
Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 2
« Reply #706 on: January 16, 2014, 11:24:31 AM »

@Mod: In which order would the abilities of jailkeeper, tracker and cop occur?


No specific order is required since the roles do not interact; with the exception of Jailer being first since someone who is jailed cannot perform their action.


http://www.malevole.com/mv/misc/tribute/
I don't even remember who put the above in my sig. [Wasn't me] Nor do I understand why I keep it here anymore.
Those two facts sum me up pretty well.

Dorian White

  • The most handsome non-vampire diplomat you ever encountered ~
  • With a Gandalf like evolution.
Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 2
« Reply #707 on: January 16, 2014, 01:26:28 PM »
My Shadoweh read isn't going too well but maybe she could help me out there for a change. So, Schadoweh, could you explain what exactly lead you to the decision to protect Ninja?
Bella gerant alii, tu felix Gensokyo nube. Nam quae Mars aliis, dat tibi diva Venus.

Shadoweh

  • I will ahn~ vote count for you
  • *
  • The STRONGEST Day Effect
Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 2
« Reply #708 on: January 16, 2014, 01:33:02 PM »
Doctor > Bodyguard
I was pretty sure he was lying about self protecting so etc


Kitten4u: "I'll say it plainly: THERE IS NO WAY SHADOWEH IS SCUM!" - A Balanced Game of Mafia

DNAbc

  • mafia is suffering
  • but I don't exactly hate that
Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 2
« Reply #709 on: January 16, 2014, 02:46:21 PM »
Since roleshens may truly be too far fetched a concept to be put into words, not to mention being untrustworthy (or as untrustworthy as it gets by people dismissing the notion entirely). I am just going to focus on the clear cut, definite things.

And I am sorry for swapping around my scumteam. To explain it simply, roleshens are confusing. Yet however, I do have a definite list of non-town aligned individuals, isolated due to them obviously lying in their roleclaims.

These people are Zak, CF7, Cheez8, Shadoweh and Dorian.

I am going to admit my scumread on Dorian is concluded but from his tunneling behavior on me when I have stated throughout the day multiple times already that it doesn't matter for now, on top of ignoring all my arguments to force a biased case on me while ignoring much of the gamestate. I do not have any role interactions to couple with this read because he claimed VT, which is, as Cheez8 had said, a easy way to escape roleshens. He is my weakest scumread currently.

The Shadoweh scumread is mainly due to how he's still coasting from the aftereffect of his claim, with a complete lack of presentation of anything concerning the big picture. Moreover, his role also ties in with the role conflict that it would require scum sucessfully blocking Cheez8 and bus driving you, blindly. However, since Shadoweh has so little material to be definitive at this point and his role does sound relatively better than a jailerXdoctor combo, so he can verify his claim tonight. He's a scumread but not a priority lynch for me.

Cheez8, the borderline madness roleshens. I believe this is the scum equivalent of counterclaiming me. And from what I do notice about you guys considering this as plausible is due to that my roleshens are bad? I am sorry for that. But still my role speculation sucking doesn't nullify the weight of everything Cheez8 did which are against a town's mind.

Remember the conflict between me and everyone before masslcaiming occured? Basically, a big argument discussed at that point was that the ''doctor'' is still un-counterclaimed asap. And that   if the ''doctor'' is  actually lying, he had better night actions claim instead of saying ''he protected conqueror''. The former argument can be easily disproved if Cheez8 claimed right then,  Cheez have shown over the course of D1 and even till now that he thinks that I am scum, questions my D1 hammer and generally distrusts me entirely.

If Cheez himself is the jailer, that should be an intergral part in any issues regarding protective roles and his protected target specifically. Like Cheez8 should have lashed out at me right off the bat at the start of D2 with a counterclaim. Yes, refer to page 12. Although Cheez DID question the validity of my nightaction choice, he never did take the many times when ''non-cc'd doctor'' is brought up to claim himself. Which is pretty ridiculous considering how completely and utterly he distrusts me which is his obvious stance while Cheez8 should've have himself being jailer as a main part of his concerns.

So basically, I would conclude that he's lying, and is my third strongest scumread. But much like my role, since his claim can actually be verified, we can leave that later. The same logic obviously applies to other claimed town PRs such as the JoaT and tracker. I think we also should start discussing night actions distribution instead of theorizing of who the rest of the scums are right now because, as Serela have said, we probably are gonna have much more information tomorrow.

Even better, with how things are going now its unlikely that I would get killed overnight. Neither would Cheez even if the setup actually is that screwed up and he's also town Jailer.

Let's decide on the lynch today first anyway, CF7 and Zak. Both are lying, one is possibly SK, what do?

Personally, I am inclined to lynch them both today and tomorrow either way, provided that they don't die overnight. and personally I would like CF7 dying first. For my gut with roles thinks that as
CF7 already has a day active, and scum needs at least one roleblock and busdrive to survive in this setup, CF7 could very well be the modified killer.


 
>Link to my Steam Account: Add me! http://steamcommunity.com/id/9898981-02
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Serela

  • Moon Tiara Magic
  • VIA PIZZA SLINGING
Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 2
« Reply #710 on: January 16, 2014, 04:14:01 PM »
I didn't even read the post, but a list of FIVE definitely not-town people obviously went wrong somewhere because we probably only have FOUR definitely not town people >_>;

Besides, one or two people lying about their roleclaims already introduces many realistically possible explanations for what happened last night.

Darkie, I wouldn't consider another protective role to exactly be counterclaiming you, because think about it. Mafia NK, infinite Town Vig, Trapper, Serial Killer, and numerous mafia roles that can probably get around the protective roles in various manners? I'unno, it sounds realistically legit. Although the explanation that "mafia could really use a jailer in this setup" is also there etc.

Normally they couldn't coexist but this setup has an extremely unorthodox amount of killing power for something of this size, and apparently a large amount of mafia town-stopping powers.

Cheez could totally be scum but he's certainly not confirmed not-town. ...what did he do that's against a town mind? I'm assuming you don't mean his target at night. I don't remember seeing a case against him. Sorry if you actually said it somewhere, because this day has been a mess due to infinite roleshens and rereading any of it would be a massive pain, plus I have work again soon *COUGH* I swear I barely work the rest of the week

oh it's in your very next paragraph >_>; Okay, that's actually a pretty decent point. There is the "but if he's the jailer he doesn't want to out himself" but finding scum is even more important, etc. Maybe we'll actually seriously consider a Cheez lynch tomorrow depending on how night actions go.
Quote from: Conq
Zak pushing Cheez solely on rolestuff isn't making me feel better about that lynch fwiw.
This makes me further consider a Zakeri lynch, however. The super unreliable night actions are his only reason for pushing Cheez over others and at the start of D2 his case was "well nnr only posted once so far so let's lynch him".

I mean, if you're really going to vote someone purely over how their night action clearly didn't happen, Shadoweh has been tracked as going to Conq, claimed bodyguard, but clearly didn't take the shot Conq was hit by. That's probably the most reliable possible-slip there is because the scum would have to be a high-speed role that bypassed the Bodyguard. HOWEVER THEY VERY WELL COULD BE, so, whatever. Meanwhile there's multiple reasons for why Cheez's role didn't interact properly with the other supposed things that happened.

anyway cf7 is still bad but iirc he's not the most shining example of mafia play normally either so I think his scummy play isn't so incredibly damning that it's a bad idea to
##Unvote ##Vote Zakeri
Because I started thinking "huh, maybe we actually should lynch Zakeri after all."

Back to Darkie. I have no idea where the fuck you're getting "CF7 is lying" WHEN HALF OF THE ROLE HE CLAIMED IS ALREADY UNDENIABLY PROVEN and the rest is an activates-on-death thing.

<mauvecow> see this is how evil works in reality, it just wears you down with bureaucracy until you don't care anymore

Serela

  • Moon Tiara Magic
  • VIA PIZZA SLINGING
Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 2
« Reply #711 on: January 16, 2014, 04:14:31 PM »
Quote
I didn't even read the post
*YET

I read it after typing that sentence ;_;
<mauvecow> see this is how evil works in reality, it just wears you down with bureaucracy until you don't care anymore

Serela

  • Moon Tiara Magic
  • VIA PIZZA SLINGING
Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 2
« Reply #712 on: January 16, 2014, 04:17:44 PM »
Quote
Meanwhile there's multiple reasons for why Cheez's role didn't interact properly with the other supposed things that happened.
Quote
Meanwhile there's multiple plausible reasons for why Cheez's role could have not interacted properly with the other supposed things that happened.
fix'd
<mauvecow> see this is how evil works in reality, it just wears you down with bureaucracy until you don't care anymore

DNAbc

  • mafia is suffering
  • but I don't exactly hate that
Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 2
« Reply #713 on: January 16, 2014, 04:18:42 PM »
Serela, CF7 can be claiming half his role. AKA the part that has active doublevote. We can never confirm if he actually can chicago until he dies.
Moreover, refer to page 19 where I pointed out why CF7 is again impossible to be town.

CF7 knew he's the doublevoter, but when dormio claimed doublevoter, he happily ignored everything, much like how Cheez8 did to me D2. And let everyone panic over the mindfuck.

>Link to my Steam Account: Add me! http://steamcommunity.com/id/9898981-02
--------------------------------------

Cheez8

  • Derp Imminent
Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 2
« Reply #714 on: January 16, 2014, 04:23:57 PM »
This first part isn't very important but
The former argument can be easily disproved if Cheez8 claimed right then,  Cheez have shown over the course of D1 and even till now that he thinks that I am scum, questions my D1 hammer and generally distrusts me entirely.
Never actually mentioned anything about you actually hammering D1- I didn't find that suspicious with everything that was going on. If you insist that I questioned your hammer, please find some proof!

As for the important part (specifically, why I didn't claim,) this post of mine sums up what was going through my head pretty thoroughly:
Well, yeah, I can't imagine that there's not a doctor. At the same time though, since there are at least four killing roles, would it be unreasonable to assume that there's a second doctor, or at least a second protective role of some fashion? Regardless of whether Darkie's telling the truth, if somebody other than Darkie is a doctor, I don't think it would be too far-fetched for that person to look at all of the killing roles at the start of Day 2 and hold off on a counterclaim.
The surrounding discussion with SB near the bottom of Page 17 gives more context, but regardless, this is why. Perhaps it's not the best logic to use, but it was what was going through my head as I read through the start of Day 2.
Someday, I'll have a clue what I'm doing.

DNAbc

  • mafia is suffering
  • but I don't exactly hate that
Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 2
« Reply #715 on: January 16, 2014, 04:25:55 PM »
Even if CF7 has proved he can doublevote, hedid it after balantly stating he has every intention to lynch me off the face of the earth without any reasons sans threatening me to shut up about him when me being lynched then was very much possible. If that's not anti-town, what is it.

Moreover him proving he has an active just make him look even worse. Why would he, as a town doublevoter, ignore D1 dormio (who also claimed hated town doublevoter with infinite tries) when CF7 is supposed only to have one shot with his doublevote throughout the game? Even if CF7 wanted to conceal his role, he could've just questioned dormio on more details about the claim, or hell, vote him or push for him as his role is unfairly imba as compared to CF7's own. If a hated modifier can earn you an extra vote throughout the game,  it is essentially a permanent doublevoter provided you survive night 1.

And since the subject of kills has been brought up I might as well say it, 4 maximum nks are only going to happen night 1. Because everyone are blind at that point and are most willing to crack a shot at whoever they think are the scummiest. Four people dying in N1 would also inevitably lead to town massclaiming. Much like what's happening now. The doctor and jailer (if there actually is one) will then be revealed, and the setup can be toyed around completely in town's favour.

So do you understand? A jailer won't coexist with a doctor.
>Link to my Steam Account: Add me! http://steamcommunity.com/id/9898981-02
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Serela

  • Moon Tiara Magic
  • VIA PIZZA SLINGING
Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 2
« Reply #716 on: January 16, 2014, 04:34:17 PM »
CF7 knew he's the doublevoter, but when dormio claimed doublevoter, he happily ignored everything, much like how Cheez8 did to me D2. And let everyone panic over the mindfuck.
Oh right I forgot that part. Dormio why did you claim doublevoter when you're actually hated >_>;

Whatever we can lynch CF7 and Zak in whichever order :T They both look pretty bad.

Anyway, this doesn't change the fact that you're still overzealous about roleshenanigans. "CF7 is obviously lying about his role" is retarded because you have no way of knowing if he's actually chicago or not, and his role is even half-proven already. Only the mafia should need to be embellishing things to make stuff look better, stick to the truth and stop painting things red, we lynch people in the face for doing that kind of crap.

Cut by, I still have no idea why doctor and jailer can't coexist in a setup with this much killing and apparent town-stopping power. You're overplaying the amount of use the town gets from massclaims, especially since the scum knowing who the jailer/doc are makes it even easier for them to nullify their roles when they have the powers to do so. Anyway, yeah I already said it'd make sense for the jailer to be mafia but it could realistically be town still. I'd rather lynch CF7/Zak first, and I think that goes for most of the players here (only Zak/Shad/CF7 aren't voting that way), so drop it until you have more evidence to use for super roleshenanigans ranttime, you have plenty of good targets to go after already.

Oh jeez, it's too late. I have to start getting ready for work so I can not be late.

YES I'M GETTING A LITTLE EMPHATIC ;_;
<mauvecow> see this is how evil works in reality, it just wears you down with bureaucracy until you don't care anymore

DNAbc

  • mafia is suffering
  • but I don't exactly hate that
Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 2
« Reply #717 on: January 16, 2014, 04:35:47 PM »
So for the nail in the coffin. Cheez, you told us the reason you thought it was okay to not claim because you genuinely believed Jailer can tie in with Doctor.

As I have told you, it is a balantly impossible mindset which must not have occured. Because for it to happen you have to be entirely unaware of role balance, role interaction and such. Worse still, even those who do not fully grasp the precise logic  balance properly should have a sense of ''hey something is wrong with two unlimited protection roles i should claim to clarify things for us''.

But no, you demonstrated you have a keen awareness on how roleshen works (imo). And you not even asking nor claiming is unacceptable because you essentially confronted me without any material crumbing to a mindset of a conflicting protective role. Everything which relates to you being Jailer can only be seen in posts after your claim, I (personally) am incapable of seeing your posts through day 1 & 2 before your claim yield the perspective of you being conflicted in any way, shape or form, enlighten me if you can actually tell me why is that.

Oh, and who are you planning to target anyway?
>Link to my Steam Account: Add me! http://steamcommunity.com/id/9898981-02
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DNAbc

  • mafia is suffering
  • but I don't exactly hate that
Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 2
« Reply #718 on: January 16, 2014, 04:36:34 PM »
Oh right I forgot that part. Dormio why did you claim doublevoter when you're actually hated >_>;

Whatever we can lynch CF7 and Zak in whichever order :T They both look pretty bad.

Anyway, this doesn't change the fact that you're still overzealous about roleshenanigans. "CF7 is obviously lying about his role" is retarded because you have no way of knowing if he's actually chicago or not, and his role is even half-proven already. Only the mafia should need to be embellishing things to make stuff look better, stick to the truth and stop painting things red, we lynch people in the face for doing that kind of crap.

Cut by, I still have no idea why doctor and jailer can't coexist in a setup with this much killing and apparent town-stopping power. You're overplaying the amount of use the town gets from massclaims, especially since the scum knowing who the jailer/doc are makes it even easier for them to nullify their roles when they have the powers to do so. Anyway, yeah I already said it'd make sense for the jailer to be mafia but it could realistically be town still. I'd rather lynch CF7/Zak first, and I think that goes for most of the players here (only Zak/Shad/CF7 aren't voting that way), so drop it until you have more evidence to use for super roleshenanigans ranttime, you have plenty of good targets to go after already.

Oh jeez, it's too late. I have to start getting ready for work so I can not be late.

YES I'M GETTING A LITTLE EMPHATIC ;_;

read my post right above yours ty
>Link to my Steam Account: Add me! http://steamcommunity.com/id/9898981-02
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DNAbc

  • mafia is suffering
  • but I don't exactly hate that
Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 2
« Reply #719 on: January 16, 2014, 04:38:58 PM »
In the case you still don't grasp my point with CF7, I am saying him proving he has an active does nothing to prove that it is wrongly used and his D1 mentality are both impossible for a town doublevoter.

Because I am inclined to believe zak is SK and we can use his kill, I'd prefer to lynch him tomorrow.
>Link to my Steam Account: Add me! http://steamcommunity.com/id/9898981-02
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