Labyrinth of Touhou 2 -12F

[Kuilfrayt]

Not quite related but having a limited number of Tomes of Reincarnation is also a bother, since I suddenly remembered that status ups from the Magic Library affect a stat's growth rate.

I really wish there was a way to get some more, so we could try other group composition, and it would've been nice as well if they kept the boss rushes and the extra zone bosses to have other challenges after you're done with the game.

[Kirin no Sora]

I really wish there was a way to get some more, so we could try other group composition, and it would've been nice as well if they kept the boss rushes and the extra zone bosses to have other challenges after you're done with the game.

Wait, you mean they took those out?

There's a limited number of the item "Tome of Reincarnation"?
That's harsh, and ultimately quite silly. Couldn't they create a reusable item with the same function, like with the Stone of Awakening?
It would make things much easier in the long run...

Also, how in blazes is anyone going to get Maribel and Renko without those places?

[jaxter0987]

However, due to affinity changes Cirno now has the worst weighted total affinity.

Ouch, Hina took a huge hit to her SPI affinity...

I stand corrected.

Spoiler:

Flandre

took an even bigger hit to her SPI affinity and now has the absolute worst weighted total affinity at a measly 8.
Mainly directed at Wymar, but I'm going to have to raise the constant back up to 13 to account for this. Seems she has the same reduction to the constant even with the new affinities.

Wait, you mean they took those out?

Also, how in blazes is anyone going to get Maribel and Renko without those places?

Kuilfrayt meant that the boss rushes and the extra zone bosses don't respawn after being killed, not that they were taken out of the game completely.

[Validon98]

@jaxter: ...Since when did Magic Library levels affect the stat growth? It affects the multiplier, but not the actual growth value itself. Only gems, skills, certain equips, and subclasses do that.

[jaxter0987]

@jaxter: ...Since when did Magic Library levels affect the stat growth? It affects the multiplier, but not the actual growth value itself. Only gems, skills, certain equips, and subclasses do that.

Well derp, I incorrectly remembered the stat formulas T.T

In any case I finished going through and updating everything awhile ago. I'll need to do a once over, just to make sure I didn't make any silly arithmetic mistakes and to change the weighted totals to account for the new formula. I also need to go to the character talk page and update everyone's base stats, affinities and resistances. Then maybe figure out how to include this into the subclass page:

Subclass Growth Rate Boosts
                         

	HP	ATK	MAG	DEF	MND	SPD	MP	TP
Guardian	0.8	-	-	0.4	0.4	-	-	4
Monk	-	-	-	-	-	0.6	-	6
Warrior	0.6	0.4	0.4	-	-	-	-	4
Sorcerer	-	-	0.4	-	0.4	-	2	2
Healer	-	-	-	-	0.4	-	2	-
Enhancer	-	-	-	-	0.4	-	2	-
Hexer	-	-	-	-	-	0.4	3	3
Toxicologist	0.4	-	-	-	-	-	2	4
Magician	-	-	-	-	0.4	0.2	6	-
Pharmacologist	0.8	-	-	-	0.4	-	2	4
Strategist	-	-	-	0.4	0.4	-	2	4
Gambler	-	0.4	0.4	-	-	-	-	-
Diva	0.4	-	-	-	-	1.0	-	4
Transcendant	0.3	0.3	0.3	0.3	0.3	0.3	-	-

[Kirin no Sora]

I stand corrected.

Spoiler:

Flandre

took an even bigger hit to her SPI affinity and now has the absolute worst weighted total affinity at a measly 8.

Spoiler:

I think that's to make it easier to activate Vampiric Wrath, although I still think that it's dumb to give that sort of skill to a glass cannon, though. If it wasn't for the fact that she already had six skills already, I would recommend that this skill be given to Remi instead of Flandre(I'd be tempted to swap out Adversity for it, despite the fact that you can inflict Heavy on yourself reliably with Curse of Vlad Tepes(note that Meiling can cure Poison and Paralysis with Healer, but not Heavy) to activate it without it affecting your fighting too much, as Remi is designed to take hits in the first place).

Kuilfrayt meant that the boss rushes and the extra zone bosses don't respawn after being killed, not that they were taken out of the game completely.

Oh, I see. That's a shame.

...to be honest, I wish that they would make said boss rushes respawnable, and add a new boss somewhere else that increases in level every time you beat it and it respawns, like **WINNER** from the first game, but with less "lol, you die because I feel like you die" sort of cheapness.

[Shin Rokuren]

Anyone got/know the track of the extra bosses fights?

[Kirin no Sora]

Hey guys, I got a question of sorts.

Remember when I stated this in a post?

Of course, this is coming from the same guy that would state things like "Why the hell does Cirno even have White Album, anyway?" and

Spoiler:

"Eirin's Hourai Elixir doesn't improve from leveling up why?"

, then go on to say something like "If only the game makers would have White Album give Cirno a offensive buff as well, so the spell can actually be useful..." or

Spoiler:

"Couldn't they give Hourai Elixir the power to revive people that improves in effectiveness from leveling up?"

, so...

Well, the truth is that I have several dozens of opinions and thought like this, but I'm worried that putting up such opinions(which would pretty much be a set of long winded rants with a LOT of nit picking in various places) would not be taken very well, due to the fact that I fear that it would be considered spam or something, which is why I haven't say much of anything in that direction.

So, my question is whether or not said thoughts can be posted here. That's all.

[Serela]

White Album is (vaguely?) relevant in Team (9) setups. ...I guess. Actually, now that I look at her stats, at least after the latest rebalance, she's not irredeemably glassy. Huh. A defense build on her to make her not fall over while debuffing boss SPD actually wouldn't be a completely terrible idea, and with team (9) bonuses she could actually maybe be a passable tank.

Hourai Elixir being able to revive would be kind of ridiculous. Eirin would be OP if she could -revive- people. Anyway, it's not the only skill in the game that's pointless to level up, and I don't think it's necessarily a bad thing- although they probably should have made skills like that max at lv1, but whatever.

Anyway, as long as it's on-topic and you don't start clogging up the thread (e.g. posting about it over and over and over or anything else that's blatantly not-cool), I don't see why you wouldn't be able to talk about it.

I haven't played ThLaby2 in forever and I never beat it >>; I took a break at 13f and oops never went back

[Kirin no Sora]

...so, as long as it doesn't offend people, that it's about LoT2 and isn't stretched out across several posts, it's okay?

Well, that's good to hear. (Also, isn't

Spoiler:

Eirin and the Hourai Elixir

supposed to be put between spoilers? Figured that I should mention that...)

Anyway, I actually had a thought from that, and I figure that I should ask it as an opinion. Would having a mid-battle revival spell at all be considered a game breaker?

[jaxter0987]

Anyway, I actually had a thought from that, and I figure that I should ask it as an opinion. Would having a mid-battle revival spell at all be considered a game breaker?

Beyond broken unless there's sufficient drawbacks for the spell. Kind of like how Rinnosuke's World Shaking Military Rule in LoT1 takes away all his TP after use, making him dead weight on the frontline.

...so, as long as it doesn't offend people, that it's about LoT2 and isn't stretched out across several posts, it's okay?

Well, that's good to hear. (Also, isn't

Spoiler:

Eirin and the Hourai Elixir

supposed to be put between spoilers? Figured that I should mention that...)

Edit: I see no reason why we can't discuss grievances we have with the game, though to that end, I don't have many. I guess just keep the discussion ... civil (I know that's not the word I'm looking for but I can't think of a more appropriate one).

I just don't like how some skills seemingly have no benefit from leveling up. Aya's Advent Post spell has no benefits past the first level up.

Spoiler:

Eirin and the Hourai Elixir

is another example. Magic Filling from the Magician class is another example and is the most frustrating to me, since I use Magician so much.
The Healer's Prayer of Good Health spell also irritates me because of how it doesn't explain which addition ailments it can heal and at what levels. Though this can be solved through vigorous testing, which I'm not willing to do quite yet since I hardly ever use it anyway.

[Sahgren]

Well, that's good to hear. (Also, isn't

Spoiler:

Eirin and the Hourai Elixir

supposed to be put between spoilers? Figured that I should mention that...)

Anyway, I actually had a thought from that, and I figure that I should ask it as an opinion. Would having a mid-battle revival spell at all be considered a game breaker?

I think I'll have to agree with Jaxter and Serela on this one. The game seems to be largely balanced around the 12 character party limit. Losses are the process of running out of characters over time until you have no way to keep going. Having a character that artificially ups that character limit by resurrecting people would have to be balanced around an enormous drawback or the bosses all being capable of insta-gibbing your entire front line.

[Kirin no Sora]

Beyond broken unless there's sufficient drawbacks for the spell. Kind of like how Rinnosuke's World Shaking Military Rule in LoT1 takes away all his TP after use, making him dead weight on the frontline.

If a drawback is required, then why not have the spell deduct some TP(for the sake of argument, maybe 7 or 8 TP per revival) from the receiver of the spell and just have it not work on the target if they don't have enough TP? That would limit how many times you can do so for any character, but still be useful for the sake of boss battles, which is where you would normally be in need of such a spell.

And personally, I didn't think that World Shaking Military Rule was balanced at all in the first game. I mean, for it's "once per battle" cost, it didn't even buff SPD(which would make it more useful), so...

Another thought: Would a spell that would do one of the following be considered OP:
1. Raise Elemental Resistance(eight elements means eight separate buffs, said spell doesn't have to raise all of them) by a percentage.
2. A buff that reduces damage from the next attack that the target receives.
3. A buff that give a HP regen for as long as it is maintained(like Magic Filling, but for HP).

Sorry if this is a lot to ask, guys. I really don't mean to pester like this...

[jaxter0987]

If a drawback is required, then why not have the spell deduct some TP(for the sake of argument, maybe 7 or 8 TP per revival) from the receiver of the spell and just have it not work on the target if they don't have enough TP? That would limit how many times you can do so for any character, but still be useful for the sake of boss battles, which is where you would normally be in need of such a spell.

And personally, I didn't think that World Shaking Military Rule was balanced at all in the first game. I mean, for it's "once per battle" cost, it didn't even buff SPD(which would make it more useful), so...

Another thought: Would a spell that would do one of the following be considered OP:
1. Raise Elemental Resistance(eight elements means eight separate buffs, said spell doesn't have to raise all of them) by a percentage.
2. A buff that reduces damage from the next attack that the target receives.
3. A buff that give a HP regen for as long as it is maintained(like Magic Filling, but for HP).

Sorry if this is a lot to ask, guys. I really don't mean to pester like this...

TP as a draw back in LoT2 is laughable (I'm just stating things bluntly. I have nothing against your ideas themselves). What you suggested isn't a drawback but a limitation. Just like all the other TP affecting spells, this would only limit how often you can use said effect.
Some examples of drawbacks:

Spoiler:

Flandre

's stronger spell consume MP from everyone on the frontline as well as lowering the timebar of everyone else on the frontline. Not to mention that her strongest spell also debuffs the frontline in addition to the other drawbacks.

Spoiler:

Renko

's buff spell consumes 33% HP from everyone on the frontline and empties her own timebar. And her offensive option lowers the timebar of everyone else on the frontline by 20%.

Spoiler:

Maribel

's self buff consumes a ton of her HP even when its maxed.

I haven't personally used Rinnosuke in LoT1 but I can see that spell being used for 20F encounters as well as 30F encounters. It seems to be intended for clearing (Strong) trash and not for boss battles, which I think is absolutely stupid since boss battles are what you prepare for but I digress.

1. No, it would actually be pretty interesting but the game would have to be re balanced. (Its not game breaking but it is skewing things in the players favor a bit too much).

2. Also interesting since it could be the compliment to that one Phamacologist's spell. Practicality is an entirely different story though. I guess you can put it on a character thats a bit more on the frail side in the hopes that if / when they do get hit, the spell might save them.

3. Broken. Its not hard maintaining Magic Filling since that subclass typically goes on supports who should be built to take hits anyway and the same would apply should this exist.

Komachi is such a great tank because she can take pretty much any hit (save for the HP to 1 spell) and be self sufficient thanks to her innate HP regeneration. Since she's self sufficient (its what made Meiling such an all around great tank in LoT1), you can give her a subclass with spells to further aid the team.
I went with Healer obviously for even more HP regen and the subclass spells speak for themselves. I know some people give her a more offensive role with Monk, though since Komachi is fine without the 4% bonus from Monk and Healer, she could be any subclass.
Even if she gets hit with an HP to 1 spell, she can just use Prayer of Recovery on herself (with its amazing scaling) to be right back in shape for tanking. Now imagine Komachi with even more HP regen thanks to that HP regen spell.

[Kirin no Sora]

TP as a draw back in LoT2 is laughable (I'm just stating things bluntly. I have nothing against your ideas themselves). What you suggested isn't a drawback but a limitation. Just like all the other TP affecting spells, this would only limits how often you can use said effect.
Some examples of drawbacks:

Spoiler:

Flandre

's stronger spell consume MP from everyone on the frontline as well as lowering the timebar of everyone else on the frontline. Not to mention that her strongest spell also debuffs the frontline in addition to the other drawbacks.

Spoiler:

Renko

's buff spell consumes 33% HP from everyone on the frontline and empties her own timebar. And her offensive option lowers the timebar of everyone else on the frontline by 20%.

Spoiler:

Maribel

's self buff consumes a ton of her HP even when its maxed.

So, HP cost from self or others, timebar depletion from others, MP cost from others, and debuffing self or others...

Let's see:

Raise Dead
MP cost: 20
Post use Gauge: 0%
Revives target ally with (SLv)% HP(cannot be affected by skills like Efficient Treatment). Revived ally timebar is set at 0%.
Other effects: Requires 3 TP from user and 7 TP from target ally to actually be able to take effect. Target ally's MP is set to 0.

Does that work, or is that still too broken?

1. No, it would actually be pretty interesting but the game would have to be re balanced. (Its not game breaking but it is skewing things in the players favor a bit too much).

I suppose that that would be very true, especially since said resistances would make all the difference on certain characters (Kaguya, Komachi, every fricking tank other than Komachi, etc.), and being able to buff that would probably make the game too easy.

As a aside, this was actually something I came up with as a way to make Sanae's Miracle Fruit spell card stand out more(adding a 15% buff to all elemental resistance at level 1, +3% per level up, 27% at max level). Something tells me that that's still way too much, though.

2. Also interesting since it could be the compliment to that one Phamacologist's spell. Practicality is an entirely different story though. I guess you can put it on a character thats a bit more on the frail side in the hopes that if / when they do get hit, the spell might save them.

Glad that this isn't considered as a game breaker. 
And really, I thought of this precisely because I felt that the "Damage Boost" spell needed a counterpart in terms of defense. In fact, I could actually see this spell as part of the Pharmacologist subclass because of it(36% damage reduction at max level? Yes, please).

3. Broken. Its not hard maintaining Magic Filling since that subclass typically goes on supports who should be built to take hits anyway and the same would apply should this exist.

Well, normally I would try to say something to that, but...

Komachi is such a great tank because she can take hits and be self sufficient thanks to her innate regeneration. Since she's self sufficient, you can give her a subclass with spells to further aid the team (I went with Healer obviously for even more HP regen and the subclass spells speak for themselves. I know some people give her a more offensive role with Monk, though since Komachi is fine without the 4% bonus from Monk and Healer, she could be any subclass). Even if she gets hit with an HP to 1 spell, she can just use Prayer of Recovery on herself (with its amazing scaling) to be right back in shape for tanking. Now imagine Komachi with even more HP regen thanks to that HP regen spell.

...this example essentially shut that plan down flat. Sigh.

On an unrelated note(not to mention to change the subject), is Mystia's Mysterious Song spell card still bugged to not heal at all?

Also, why did they make Satori's spell card copying ability access them at Lv0 and not Lv1? I feel like they did so for the sole purpose of making her unable to use Aya's Guidepost for the Advent of the Divine Grandson spell card, as if it would break the game if they did let her copy it...

[jaxter0987]

I cut this out from my last post since I didn't realize you replied to it while I was editing it:
@ #2
Actually, scratch what I said about practicality. This would make switching in attackers a smaller risk, which kind of makes the game lose some of its appeal. I personally feel that the main attraction of the Labyrinth of Touhou games (and I guess by extension Etrian Odyssey games as well) is party management. How you go about handling various obstacles (in the form of bosses obviously) with your hand chosen roster of 12 is what makes the game fun.

This is why I started my synergy run of the game. In a normal play through of the game, I would stick to my chosen 12 (after most of the characters have been unlocked) for the rest of the game, rarely dropping characters once I've found my 12 (I ended up dropping Satori

Spoiler:

for Renko but I think that's different since Renko wasn't available until recently

).

With a synergy run, I'm forcing myself to play with a predetermined 12 through out the whole game, and learning how to make those 12 characters work for me is part of the fun. Which is why I want to finish Post game content soon with my main initial play through, so I can finish my synergy run, so I can start another new game with the rest of the characters I haven't ever tried even in LoT1.

Will be writing my thoughts on your response later Kirin, too busy with something right now to give your post the proper attention.
Edit:

So, HP cost from self or others, timebar depletion from others, MP cost from others, and debuffing self or others...

Let's see:

Raise Dead
MP cost: 20
Post use Gauge: 0%
Revives target ally with (SLv)% HP(cannot be affected by skills like Efficient Treatment). Revived ally timebar is set at 0%.
Other effects: Requires 3 TP from user and 7 TP from target ally to actually be able to take effect. Target ally's MP is set to 0.

Does that work, or is that still too broken?

Lets just get this out of the way:
The more I think about having a revival spell in this game, the more I'm reminded of my long winded explanation of why reducing the risk of switching in characters is bad. One could argue that you could do the same with

Spoiler:

   Ran   

and her buff spells and they would make a good point. Then again, the fact that you managed to get the damage reduction spell onto a squishy without the squishy dying is good decision making and should be rewarded. Clearly, I'm still on the fence about this.

Anyway, in regards to the proposed spell:
That all sounds great except LoT2 isn't like other RPGs where the dead is actually still on screen with their status and everything. It's great using TP values as a limitation but I think it'd be weird having to have another menu showing who's dead and their TP values. There's also the issue of access to this spell. If it's in a subclass (highly likely if it existed) whats to stop everyone from being this subclass (other than an arbitrary "Only one character can have this subclass" or something which completely breaks the standard for subclasses.

For the record, I think we're going a bit too in depth about a spell that's not even in the game.

On an unrelated note(not to mention to change the subject), is Mystia's Mysterious Song spell card still bugged to not heal at all?

Also, why did they make Satori's spell card copying ability access them at Lv0 and not Lv1? I feel like they did so for the sole purpose of making her unable to use Aya's Guidepost for the Advent of the Divine Grandson spell card, as if it would break the game if they did let her copy it...

No idea if Mysterious Song is bugged or not. Mystia is someone I haven't tried at all. I've said a lot about using different team compositions but LoT1 was pretty unforgiving when you pick... less than stellar characters. I didn't branch out too far because of this, aside from dropping Wriggle during post game and bringing in Kaguya for the amazing MND ignoring properties.

I'd give them the benefit of the doubt and just say that if Satori were to copy spells at Lv1, she would become just too good. Most spells are already great at just Lv1.
I see Satori being built five ways:

• As another ATK character
• As another MAG character
• As a support character kind of like Aya (focusing on HP, SPD and EVA, using affinities to mitigate damage should she happen to actually get hit)
• As a typical support character built to take hits
• As a composite character, raising both ATK and MAG

1, 2 and 3 are fine. 4 is probably not possible given her terrible defensive growth rates and 5 is the worse of both 1 and 2. You don't do nearly as much damage as a dedicated ATK / MAG character and you're beyond squishy. I guess if you're copying composite spells, that might be a different story but...meh.
I personally picked 5 for some reason, thinking that I could actually raise two stats to be relevant. Looking back on it, I would probably raise her as an ATK character so she can copy

Spoiler:

Eiki's Last Judgement Spell

effectively.

[Kirin no Sora]

Lets just get this out of the way:
The more I think about having a revival spell in this game, the more I'm reminded of my long winded explanation of why reducing the risk of switching in characters is bad. One could argue that you could do the same with

Spoiler:

   Ran   

and her buff spells and they would make a good point. Then again, the fact that you managed to get the damage reduction spell onto a squishy without the squishy dying is good decision making and should be rewarded. Clearly, I'm still on the fence about this.

No surprise there.

Anyway, in regards to the proposed spell:
That all sounds great except LoT2 isn't like other RPGs where the dead is actually still on screen with their status and everything. It's great using TP values as a limitation but I think it'd be weird having to have another menu showing who's dead and their TP values. There's also the issue of access to this spell. If it's in a subclass (highly likely if it existed) whats to stop everyone from being this subclass (other than an arbitrary "Only one character can have this subclass" or something which completely breaks the standard for subclasses.

I would actually fix the first part by not having the dead not be on screen with said values presents. As for the second...

Rinnosuke would be a good character to hold on to such a spell, since he has no attack spells to start with. Still, the very existence of a revival spell period will flat out require a major overhaul in the balance in the game itself, so...

For the record, I think we're going a bit too in depth about a spell that's not even in the game.

True enough. I'll drop the subject altogether, then.

No idea if Mysterious Song is bugged or not. Mystia is someone I haven't tried at all. I've said a lot about using different team compositions but LoT1 was pretty unforgiving when you pick... less than stellar characters. I didn't branch out too far because of this, aside from dropping Wriggle during post game and bringing in Kaguya for the amazing MND ignoring properties.

Curious, since Mystia was considered as a great character to use in LoT1(even though you could only get her during the post game), so unless you simply didn't bother to use her in the first game either, then...

Actually, I have no idea how to complete that sentence without sounding like a jerk, so I won't.

I'd give them the benefit of the doubt and just say that if Satori were to copy spells at Lv1, she would become just too good. Most spells are already great at just Lv1.

...and what's the difference between Lv1 and Lv0 in terms of spell card levels? Besides, she can't raise their strength by raising said level either way, so it wouldn't change how it operates...

I see Satori being built five ways:

• As another ATK character
• As another MAG character
• As a support character kind of like Aya (focusing on HP, SPD and EVA, using affinities to mitigate damage should she happen to actually get hit)
• As a typical support character built to take hits
• As a composite character, raising both ATK and MAG

1, 2 and 3 are fine. 4 is probably not possible given her terrible defensive growth rates and 5 is the worse of both 1 and 2. You don't do nearly as much damage as a dedicated ATK / MAG character and you're beyond squishy. I guess if you're copying composite spells, that might be a different story but...meh.
I personally picked 5 for some reason, thinking that I could actually raise two stats to be relevant. Looking back on it, I would probably raise her as an ATK character so she can copy

Spoiler:

Eiki's Last Judgement Spell

effectively.

Okay, the fact that you turned Satori into a composite glass cannon isn't a bad thing. You just need to do the following to make her more effective:

1. Boost her SPD. This is important, as her ability to do anything depends on this stat as much as her ATK and MAG. You can use the Magic Library, or power her up with Stat Gems.
2. Get an effective switcher for her, as this can and will help her a lot(her Small MP Recovery skill is nothing to sneeze at). Rinnosuke and Orin would make for great choices in that department(the former reducing the time before she can act after switching her in to almost nothing, and the latter being good at pulling switches and attacking at the same time, and gives a boost to Satori's stats via the "Palace of the Earth Spirits Party" skill to boot)...
3. Pick up a subclass that boosts her SPD and/or offensive power. Monk works to let her hit faster than others via Dexterity Training, while Gambler becomes useful if you truly don't care about her defense. Then, of course, there's Transcendant. which is anything but a bad choice for boosting everything at once.

Overall, it's possible to do as you intend to do with her, it just takes a bit of effort to do so.

...and now I'm going to go and nap for a bit.

[Serela]

Satori's Small MP Recovery and other mp recovery methods along with Yukari's Spiriting Away...

...how high can Satori's MP realistically get, again?

[jaxter0987]

Curious, since Mystia was considered as a great character to use in LoT1(even though you could only get her during the post game), so unless you simply didn't bother to use her in the first game either, then...

Actually, I have no idea how to complete that sentence without sounding like a jerk, so I won't.

I don't like speedsters like Chen, Aya, Orin (at least in LoT1) and Mystia really felt like just another speedster but with Mysterious Song as what defines her. She had Poison and Paralysis but since she wasn't good at either of them (not to mention Poison being bad in post game which is when you get her anyway), I didn't give her a try.

...and what's the difference between Lv1 and Lv0 in terms of spell card levels? Besides, she can't raise their strength by raising said level either way, so it wouldn't change how it operates...

The same difference between Lv1 and Lv2 spell cards. Lv 0 spell cards are just weaker (deals less damage, buffs less, debuffs less, etc etc).

Okay, the fact that you turned Satori into a composite glass cannon isn't a bad thing. You just need to do the following to make her more effective:

1. Boost her SPD. This is important, as her ability to do anything depends on this stat as much as her ATK and MAG. You can use the Magic Library, or power her up with Stat Gems.
2. Get an effective switcher for her, as this can and will help her a lot(her Small MP Recovery skill is nothing to sneeze at). Rinnosuke and Orin would make for great choices in that department(the former reducing the time before she can act after switching her in to almost nothing, and the latter being good at pulling switches and attacking at the same time, and gives a boost to Satori's stats via the "Palace of the Earth Spirits Party" skill to boot)...
3. Pick up a subclass that boosts her SPD and/or offensive power. Monk works to let her hit faster than others via Dexterity Training, while Gambler becomes useful if you truly don't care about her defense. Then, of course, there's Transcendant. which is anything but a bad choice for boosting everything at once.

Overall, it's possible to do as you intend to do with her, it just takes a bit of effort to do so.

...and now I'm going to go and nap for a bit.

I've done all of that and her damage still falls short for me to bother switching her in and out when I could do the same with a dedicated MAG / ATK user and do more damage. Towards the end of the game, she was just a second Reimu to me and allowed for a quick double cast of Hakurei Barrier / Exorcising Border. Once I had

Spoiler:

Byakuren

, Satori saw even less use. I still kept her since I had already invested quite a bit on her but when I got

Spoiler:

Renko

which can do what I wanted to do with Satori, she was dropped. When I do decide to use her again, she'll probably be another ATK user.

Satori's Small MP Recovery and other mp recovery methods along with

Spoiler:

Yukari's Spiriting Away...

...how high can Satori's MP realistically get, again?

Well into the 50s I believe with equipment and Magician. Don't forget though, they changed

Spoiler:

Yukari's Spiriting Away

spell so that its like Marisa's Master Spark. It has a base requirement but it consumes all MP.

[Serela]

I don't like speedsters like Chen, Aya, Orin (at least in LoT1) and Mystia really felt like just another speedster but with Mysterious Song as what defines her. She had Poison and Paralysis but since she wasn't good at either of them (not to mention Poison being bad in post game which is when you get her anyway), I didn't give her a try.

Not very true; Mystia's Paralysis was stronger then most characters, and was all-target and significantly damaging to boot, making it glorious for random battles. Well, Midnight Chorus Master's par didn't last long, but that was in exchange for higher damage and no element. Mystia was a very powerful character in random battles.

In bosses, she was generally more limited to spamming Ill Starred Dive with it's low cooldown- this is a pretty good source of damage still, albiet not impressive, but still pretty respectable even compared to the good boss nukers of the game. So, you took her more for randoms, but she still worked out in bosses. By the time you hit postgame, Mysterious Song is practically useless, because anyone staying out for hits should already be nigh-immune to all those pesky status effects.

...it'd be valid to gambit trying to hit PAR on the slightly vulnerable bosses by spamming poisonous moth dance though, given that in postgame it lasts a -really- long time

But yeah, anyway, there's really no good reason to build Satori for ATK -and- MAG at the same time, because then both categories suffer in power too much. Now, it's fine to boost both library levels and switch between the builds as necessary... (although as you get close to endgame you'd probably want to pick one over the other since then the library starts getting costly, but with a solidified party of 12 by then you'd probably be able to choose one over the other)

[jaxter0987]

Not very true; Mystia's Paralysis was stronger then most characters, and was all-target and significantly damaging to boot, making it glorious for random battles. Well, Midnight Chorus Master's par didn't last long, but that was in exchange for higher damage and no element. Mystia was a very powerful character in random battles.

In bosses, she was generally more limited to spamming Ill Starred Dive with it's low cooldown- this is a pretty good source of damage still, albiet not impressive, but still pretty respectable even compared to the good boss nukers of the game. So, you took her more for randoms, but she still worked out in bosses. By the time you hit postgame, Mysterious Song is practically useless, because anyone staying out for hits should already be nigh-immune to all those pesky status effects.

...it'd be valid to gambit trying to hit PAR on the slightly vulnerable bosses by spamming poisonous moth dance though, given that in postgame it lasts a -really- long time

So you just confirmed that she's just another speedster with some utility in randoms. I'm glad I didn't even bother trying her in the first game. I couldn't care less how effective said character was in helping clear trash, and since you said that she's limited to spamming a short delay spell in boss battles, she's not for me. If I wanted to inflict PAR in boss battles, Renko and Suwako can do it so much better (Renko massively debuffing SPD and Suwako actually doing damage).

[Serela]

I probably made her sound a little worse in boss battles then she is, but in the end she's nothing special in a boss either so w/e. But since I brought it up, she's inbetween the frail and durable side (mostly because overall durability of everyone goes up in plus) so in my experience she could reliably take one hit from non-nuke attacks, her naturally very high status resists aren't as special in Plus but still free up her equipment slots, and as long as she can stay out for a few casts Ill-Starred Dive is actually a pretty worthy damage option.

...but yeah, she's not all that special in bosses so for someone not caring about randoms she's pretty eh. I'd never take a character just for ease of clearing randoms, but she's still pretty good on bosses so it's not much of a sacrifice- but she can't actually cross the line into being notably good for bosses so yeah

In other news though, I wouldn't really agree Orin is a speedster, anyway; Cat's Walk is fast but you'd definitely only use it if you needed some switching micromanagement, and Blazing Wheel's "low delay" of 35% is only in comparison to how most good nukes in that game are 0% (or on a slow character). With the offense stats buffed up to get past composite attack's initial wall of enemy defenses, Blazing Wheel does pretty comparable damage to most nukes without any leaving her out to spam it, along with her having a decent MND stat and being able to easily sweep randoms with her speed and Blazing Wheel (and having a non-elemental multihit option when needed). Orin's a pretty solid character

[Kirin no Sora]

In other news though, I wouldn't really agree Orin is a speedster, anyway; Cat's Walk is fast but you'd definitely only use it if you needed some switching micromanagement, and Blazing Wheel's "low delay" of 35% is only in comparison to how most good nukes in that game are 0% (or on a slow character). With the offense stats buffed up to get past composite attack's initial wall of enemy defenses, Blazing Wheel does pretty comparable damage to most nukes without any leaving her out to spam it, along with her having a decent MND stat and being able to easily sweep randoms with her speed and Blazing Wheel (and having a non-elemental multihit option when needed). Orin's a pretty solid character

...and when comparing her LoT1 and LoT2 selves, it looks like Orin was rebalanced a bit...

Cat's Walk: Unchanged, save for becoming Physical element and the ability to inflict SHK, so it's been improved slightly?
Vengeful Cannibal Spirit: Composite attack that now only targets DEF,element type changed from Spirit to Dark, inflicts Terror instead of Poison, still inflicts a DEF debuff, and has a post use gauge of 60% instead of 32%. Definitely improved.
Needle Mountain of a Former Hell: A row attack instead of all attack, is still based on ATK, can now debuff DEF, is Physical element and now has a post use gauge of 52% instead of 30%. Improved, although I must ask if it still posesses the low DEF influence that it had in the first game.
Blazing Wheel: Composite attack that now only targets MND, is still Fire element, and now has a post use gauge of 0% instead of 35%.  I can't really say if this is improved, nerfed, or just rebalanced. :wat:

As for whether she's supposed to be a speedster or not, I would flat out say that she feels more like what you said, Serela: a quick sweeper of floor trash with good options to use during boss fights, like Vengeful Cannibal Spirit. Also, as she has Extra Attack as a skill, that only makes her even better at sweeping, and since her ATK and MAG are good, she can take up any offensive subclass with spell cards in it and be able to make good use of them(Monk stands out as Dexterity Training should theoretically make Cat's Walk at 100% post use gauge, combined with Body Revitalization to make every Cat's Walk stronger, meaning that Orin could pull a Chen and slam an enemy repeatedly until her MP is all gone and then switch out).

Speaking of Chen, would her having Piercing Attack as a skill be a game breaker or something, because I see no reason for her to not have that skill(plus it would make her more different from Orin because of the fact that Chen's Flight of Idaten DPS would be able to become reliable against a single target, like oh say, Tenshi)...

[Serela]

well technically I was talking about LoT1 Orin, but LoT2 doesn't seem tooooo different apart from some buffs and added switching support :V

I haven't used LoT2 orin yet so can't opinion about it. Extra Attack is just glorious though, with any amount of luck.

[jaxter0987]

Monk stands out as Dexterity Training should theoretically make Cat's Walk at 100% post use gauge

Dexterity Training doesn't work that way. It reduces timebar consumption by 10%, not reduces all timebar consumption by 1000. So instead of consuming 1200 and leaving Chen at 88% of her timebar (8800) after use, Flight of Idaten would consume 1080, leaving Chen with 89.20% of her timebar (8920). Dexterity Training is really only useful to people who have huge delay spells and would stay out after attacking (Kanako and Alice come to mind since they're beefier than the average MAG user and have fairly long delays. I'm sure you could come up with an example for an ATK user, but I tend to favour MAG attackers over ATK attackers so I can't name anyone off the top of my head).

Speaking of Chen, would her having Piercing Attack as a skill be a game breaker or something, because I see no reason for her to not have that skill(plus it would make her more different from Orin because of the fact that Chen's Flight of Idaten DPS would be able to become reliable against a single target, like oh say, Tenshi)...

I can't say since I've never used Chen seriously.

[Kirin no Sora]

Dexterity Training doesn't work that way. It reduces timebar consumption by 10%, not reduces all timebar consumption by 1000. So instead of consuming 1200 and leaving Chen at 88% of her timebar (8800) after use, Flight of Idaten would consume 1080, leaving Chen with 89.20% of her timebar (8920). Dexterity Training is really only useful to people who have huge delay spells and would stay out after attacking (Kanako and Alice come to mind since they're beefier than the average MAG user and have fairly long delays. I'm sure you could come up with an example for an ATK user, but I tend to favour MAG attackers over ATK attackers so I can't name anyone off the top of my head).

I... Oh. 

That actually changes a lot about how I view that skill. (I'll presume that it only reduces an action's TBC(time bar consumption) by 1000 if said action's post use gauge is at 0%) I'm glad that you told me that.

Oh, and

Spoiler:

the two onis

would be good examples of ATK based attackers, just so you know.

Spoiler:

On a related note, does anyone know if Suika's Oni Binding skill is working or not? And is there really such a thing as an Oni type of enemy?

[Kuilfrayt]

Spoiler:

On a related note, does anyone know if Suika's Oni Binding skill is working or not? And is there really such a thing as an Oni type of enemy?

It does now yes. The PAR effect is around 1500 for normal enemies and around 2500 for Oni-type enemies (at lvl 3). You can check their type in the bestiary (oozes, sword devil, cats, demon ghosts are a few of them)

[ZellBell]

Hello everyone! Let's just begin by saying that I really love the Touhou Labyrinths. (Though 2 is really doing it for me, I love all the polish in it so much).

I've recently started playing, so I really cannot put any input into all the wonderful postgame-y stuff going on around here, but- If any of you were wondering for some reason. Or never got the chance to find out. Because I really should have noticed earlier but only did in the middle of a boss fight.

http://i41.tinypic.com/2vx1rtd.jpg
http://i41.tinypic.com/2lxfgxj.jpg
http://i44.tinypic.com/xds104.jpg

Spoiler:

Never put a First Aid Kit on Maintenance Nitori aaaaaaaa

[Solmyr2000]

Needle Mountain of a Former Hell: A row attack instead of all attack, is still based on ATK, can now debuff DEF, is Physical element and now has a post use gauge of 52% instead of 30%. Improved, although I must ask if it still posesses the low DEF influence that it had in the first game.

It seems to - it deals very good damage even in post-game... Unlike Blazing Wheel which does nothing. :V

That actually changes a lot about how I view that skill. (I'll presume that it only reduces an action's TBC(time bar consumption) by 1000 if said action's post use gauge is at 0%) I'm glad that you told me that.

That's why I found Warrior to be better on Chen than Monk. Row attack strengthening is a very good thing for her. She doesn't need any speed, she's good at that already, while damage is very welcome.

http://i41.tinypic.com/2vx1rtd.jpg
http://i41.tinypic.com/2lxfgxj.jpg
http://i44.tinypic.com/xds104.jpg

LOL.

[Kirin no Sora]

It seems to - it deals very good damage even in post-game... Unlike Blazing Wheel which does nothing. :V

Then I can easily say that that spell has been buffed from the first game.

That's why I found Warrior to be better on Chen than Monk. Row attack strengthening is a very good thing for her. She doesn't need any speed, she's good at that already, while damage is very welcome.

And if we follow that line of logic and what you had said before, then Row Attack Strengthening would do well on Orin as well, for most of the same reasons.

I've recently started playing, so I really cannot put any input into all the wonderful postgame-y stuff going on around here, but- If any of you were wondering for some reason. Or never got the chance to find out. Because I really should have noticed earlier but only did in the middle of a boss fight.

http://i41.tinypic.com/2vx1rtd.jpg
http://i41.tinypic.com/2lxfgxj.jpg
http://i44.tinypic.com/xds104.jpg

Spoiler:

Never put a First Aid Kit on Maintenance Nitori aaaaaaaa

 what.

...anyway, which boss were you fighting when you took those pictures?

---

On an unrelated note,

Spoiler:

would it be asking for too much for Meiling to be granted the Easygoing and Firm Defense skills? Considering that her specialty as a tank is the ability to self-heal and stuff, I wouldn't think that these skills would be bad for her to have...

And is her "The Gatekeeper that likes to Nap" skill still bugged, or does it actually increase her speed now?

Also, please tell me if my ranting becomes annoying, so that I'll know when to stop.