A suggestion for organization

[Archin]

I'm not sure where I should have posted this, since it is related to the official games somewhat. It's more about organizing the "Help Me, Eirin!" section of the forum. Feel free to shoot this down but I would like to here some thoughts..

As it stands now we have an accomplishment thread, failure thread and a help thread. I was wondering, have we considered making a thread for each game. When your looking for help within a specific game, you either have to flip through pages and pages of discussions of strategies and help of all the games or post a question that may have been answered already. This can be a little tedious and if something has already been discussed about, it not considered a waste of time, though the problem has already been solved. If we created threads for each game, it would make it easier for newer players to find the information that they are looking for. Plus it would allow players to discuss new or old strategies they have within the specific games they are currently playing. Also another plus of having a thread for each game; players wouldn't be talking over each other in the Spell Help thread since the players discussing about PCB would be in the PCB thread and the players discussing about SA would be in the SA thread. I know the Shumps does this and it makes it easier to discuss the specifics for each game, though it could be that most games are played completely different. Now I'm not saying we have to make a thread for accomplishment and failure for each game, we can keep them generalized. Though instead of having a Spell Card help, we can separate each game respectfully. The biggest issue I can see is splitting up the players, since everyone isn't working on the same game.

What are some of your thoughts?

[ふねん1]

If they're anything like the Imperishable Night Spell Card Tutorial thread, then perhaps. However, we'd probably have to resort to one "master" pinned thread linking to each one so the HME page doesn't get all cluttered up top.

[Tengukami]

What are some of your thoughts?

My thoughts are that if there were threads dedicated to each game, those threads would have to have a pretty narrow focus to avoid where-to-post confusion, e.g., strictly gameplay help. While more generalized threads - rage, accomplishments, blogging, etc. - could keep doing their own thing. Is that what you mean? Because if that's the case I guess my only other question would be, how does it solve the clutter problem? You're still creating multi-page threads that you have to flip through to find the information you need. It is more orderly than a general spell card help thread, but it isn't necessarily faster, I don't think. But if it's orderliness that's the goal here, then I think it's a promising idea that would have to be thought out well.

[Zil]

I think he means to make some sort of strategy guide for each game. So like, a bunch of info would be organized all in the first post or something. Something like http://shmups.system11.org/viewtopic.php?t=26814 maybe.

[CyberAngel]

The problem with this approach is that there isn't all that much action to bother splitting it. There were game-specific topics when new games came out, but they've drifted into history after some time. Separate topics for less-than-current games are even more likely to keep hitting auto-lock on a regular basis. Plus, if someone works on one game, that doesn't mean they can't bother to help someone with another, which they may miss with several topics around. A single topic is indeed more convenient in this case.

Well, there may be a suggestion that would help new players and cut on repeated questions. A single stickied topic with strategy writeups for each game. Yeah, something like Imperishable Night Spellcard Tutorial, just bigger. But that may be way too much work, even with many people working on separate parts.

[Archin]

My thoughts are that if there were threads dedicated to each game, those threads would have to have a pretty narrow focus to avoid where-to-post confusion, e.g., strictly gameplay help. While more generalized threads - rage, accomplishments, blogging, etc. - could keep doing their own thing. Is that what you mean? Because if that's the case I guess my only other question would be, how does it solve the clutter problem? You're still creating multi-page threads that you have to flip through to find the information you need. It is more orderly than a general spell card help thread, but it isn't necessarily faster, I don't think. But if it's orderliness that's the goal here, then I think it's a promising idea that would have to be thought out well.

Keep the Rage, Accomplishments, blogging threads, generalized; what I talking about it the help thread. No matter what you do, your still going to have multi-page threads, there is nothing you can do about that, but instead of having 6 threads of 1000 posts. It would be easier to find information about a say spell card your having difficulty with, in a thread your looking for that is maybe 100 posts.

I think he means to make some sort of strategy guide for each game. So like, a bunch of info would be organized all in the first post or something. Something like http://shmups.system11.org/viewtopic.php?t=26814 maybe.

Ok, maybe I should of done a little more research. I thought Shmups was a little more organized then that, my bad. I was thinking more like the Score section, but instead of posting our high scores, you have discussions about each individual games. Rather than having them all into one.

The problem with this approach is that there isn't all that much action to bother splitting it. There were game-specific topics when new games came out, but they've drifted into history after some time. Separate topics for less-than-current games are even more likely to keep hitting auto-lock on a regular basis. Plus, if someone works on one game, that doesn't mean they can't bother to help someone with another, which they may miss with several topics around. A single topic is indeed more convenient in this case.

Well, there may be a suggestion that would help new players and cut on repeated questions. A single stickied topic with strategy writeups for each game. Yeah, something like Imperishable Night Spellcard Tutorial, just bigger. But that may be way too much work, even with many people working on separate parts.

That is true, I didn't think about the auto-lock feature in the forum. That was the biggest issue I was thinking when splitting up the games, since players would be splitting themselves as well and miss valuable information.

[Zil]

More organized than that? That thread there is pretty fantastic. I'm not sure I know what you mean. Compiling information in a way that makes it easily accessible would be very cool if it were at all possible, but making threads just for asking for help would probably be unnecessary. It's really fine to ask things that have been asked a million times before in the thread that exists.

[Archin]

More organized than that? That thread there is pretty fantastic. I'm not sure I know what you mean. Compiling information in a way that makes it easily accessible would be very cool if it were at all possible, but making threads just for asking for help would probably be unnecessary. It's really fine to ask things that have been asked a million times before in the thread that exists.

Sorry I didn't mean the thread you posted, the site as a whole. The strategy thread you posted was well organized and provided tons of information. Well it wouldn't just be a help thread, but a discussion thread about the specific game as well.

[Tengukami]

I see the point C.Angel brings up about the amount of traffic coming into HME - does it necessitate this kind of organization? I guess the people who hang out on this board the most, and the people who've newly arrived, could best answer that.

[rsy_type1]

hmm...
there is a website called "tieba"in china ,which likes a forum.
however,the ?touhou bar? has much more viewers than "IN bar" ,?EoSD bar?and other bars.
since there are not many viewers in the forum,diverting them may make some threads been left alone.

[Sapz]

I feel like strategy threads, similar to those on Shmups, would be a fine idea. For it to be effective as a strategy guide rather than something more suitable for a general help thread it'd definitely need all the info organized in the first few posts; posts by others should be limited to thanks for/questions about/possible additions to said guide to keep it focused. Probably obvious, but I believe the only practical way of doing this is to have the information composed by a single person for each game's thread so they have full organizational power over how it's laid out and what information is actually important. It's not going to be useful if someone just makes a general Mountain of Faith thread and then people start discussing it or whatever (we have other threads for that), it's something that should only happen when someone has the majority of the information already and is prepared to put in some time to lay it all out properly, ideally with pictures/videos as references.

That's my take on it, at least - obviously, feel free to suggest alternatives. If this happens I'll stick a link to them either in the welcome to HME post or made a new sticky for them.

[Zil]

On that note, this probably will deserve some kind of attention - http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,15824.0.html

The stickies section is awfully cluttered so perhaps creating a single thread with many links in it would be a good idea. (The welcome to HME thing or another.)

I may be inspired to write something about PoDD at some point, since I've learned some things and the wiki page is full of garbage. And I've thought about it before.

Also - http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,14142.0.html though Wriggle has fallen so someone else would have to update it.

[helvetica]

I've suggested in the past of putting up a wiki for use by HME and other sections. It wouldn't take me very long to set it up. I feel as if that would be a much better format for storing "static" data like gameplay analysis/etc, and leave HME for actual discussion.

[Karisa]

For something like pages for gameplay advice, I think it's a good idea if people are willing to write them, but is there any reason not to use the existing wiki at http://en.touhouwiki.net?

It might be harder to organize at first, considering it would involve collaborating with a separate site, but I think the benefits of convenience would be worth it in the long term-- most of the experienced players already have an account there, I think, and the wiki already has highly detailed gameplay pages but rather unhelpful "strategy" pages that I think would be better off replaced.

I actually had this idea in the past, but felt like I should submit one page when proposing both as evidence of commitment and as a proposal for a standardized strategy-page/section format, and I never got around to writing it.

Edit:

Also - http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,14142.0.html though Wriggle has fallen so someone else would have to update it.

I have no problem with updating both of Wriggle's ongoing threads (that one and the TAS thread). Though I've always considered the latter slightly redundant (the TAS list, not the entire thread) considering that Arcorann keeps a more detailed TAS list on the wiki.

[helvetica]

For reasons I will not go in detail here I would strongly prefer to host the wiki here rather than co-opt touhouwiki. Logistics wise it's easier too since eventually there will be a single sign on system between your forum account and everything else MotK related.

[Zil]

Personally I think a separate thing would be better too. The existing wiki is not very gameplay oriented at all. Something more dedicated would be easier to use/navigate in the long run, I think.

[Mino ☆]

If you do create the wiki, I'll happily help in writing some of the pages and contributing.

[Shimatora]

If you do create the wiki, I'll happily help in writing some of the pages and contributing.

Agreed!

[Waahst]

Separate wiki seems alright. Separate threads for each game will become stagnant relatively quick, obviously.