Author Topic: Touhou: the Gathering - Legends of an Eastern Wonderland (Magic set)  (Read 62940 times)

Re: Touhou: the Gathering - Legends of an Eastern Wonderland (Magic set)
« Reply #60 on: October 27, 2013, 11:34:59 AM »
Well if its once a turn, make sure you add that specific "Play this ability only once a turn" at the end of the rules text. MTG assumes that you can play the ability as many times as you want if you don't have it and there's no tap requirement.

Not needed at all. The focus ability reads in the first example "Whenever this creature attacks, you may pay 3G to give it +3/+3 until end of turn." The mana payment is a part of a triggered ability, so you can only pump once per attack.

The wording is off though. Should be: "Whenever this creature attacks, you may pay 3G. If you do, this creature gets +3/+3 until end of turn."

KennyMan666

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Re: Touhou: the Gathering - Legends of an Eastern Wonderland (Magic set)
« Reply #61 on: October 27, 2013, 05:22:54 PM »
So, what's not happening today: Comments for everything, because thile the con is over, we're going out for sushi in three hours.

What is happening today: The next preview category.

Artifacts - not really a colour
Yeah, we're going artifacts. There's not a lot of them in the set at this point, really, only fifteen, so we're going to look at most or all of them today. Twilight mentioned on the last page that he that there'd be about two artifact creatures in the set.

Let's just say he was way off
The current amount of artifact creatures in the set, an amount that's kind of unlikely to change, is seven. So let's start with the obvious one.

So. Not sure she should have the keyword, actually.
Medicine might be the most well known, but she's far from the first artifact creature of Touhou. For most of them, we have to back to PC98. Like these two, coming from the same source:

And then we can go even further backand find... well, one of the more boring cards in the set that is going to get a complete redesign, I think:

As you might notice here and in the previous one, artifact creatues aren't always as legendary as their coloured counterparts. This next fellow, however, is:

And, well, while we're on the heavy hitters, back to Windows. Both from one game, actually.


Take a look, it's a book
This here is actually the only card in the set with this type, just a straight up nonlegendary noncreature artifact. Maybe it should be legendary, though.

Miiiight be undercosted.

Wield it
So, it's not only auras that can be used to strengthen creatures. There's also equipment! There will eventually be more pieces of equipment, I know the Miracle Mallet will get a card, and then there's some others. But, first up:

And one I'm not completely sure of:

And one I'm sure of, except for costs.


Equipping the ground
So, a card type that doesn't quite exist in Magic yet is fortifications. There's one. So this set has 300% more fortifications than there are in Magic proper.
First up:

Second up:

...wait. What's that, now?

Shrines, huh?

And the big one
Well...

...I'm sure it's nothing to worry about.
Fly & High!!

Re: Touhou: the Gathering - Legends of an Eastern Wonderland (Magic set)
« Reply #62 on: October 28, 2013, 01:18:58 AM »
Quote
By the way, it's actually quite easy - not trivially easy, but as easy as Marisa's proverbial Laser, to get 11+ cards in your hand by turn 2.  (I made that "deceptively expensive" quip for that reason. :3)

Outside of Necropotence, I see no way of getting 11 cards on turn 2.

Quote
Medicine might be the most well known, but she's far from the first artifact creature of Touhou. For most of them, we have to back to PC98. Like these two, coming from the same source:

Not anymore, Kokoro is pretty well known.

@Goliath: For Goliath, I think Vanishing or Fading or something similar makes more sense. It isn't like she gets any weaker as the timer runs out, it is just that she blows up once the timer runs out.

@Sword of Hisou: In a flavor perspective, I think this should be Legendary and Indestructable. Of course, the issue arises in that most Touhous carry legendary items.

@Flower Tank: I think that should be a living artifact.

@Donation Box: This card is not very good. This looks like a bad version of Darksteel Ingot or any card that just straight up gives mana.

achicken

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Re: Touhou: the Gathering - Legends of an Eastern Wonderland (Magic set)
« Reply #63 on: October 28, 2013, 01:33:15 AM »
Edit: Cards:
I don't have a problem with any of these artifacts, except for one.

The Keystone's ability is redundant. You might was well NOT fortify the land and have the Keystone sacrifice itself.
The alternative is to make the keystone's fortify ability sacrifice the fortified land instead.

Quote
@Goliath: For Goliath, I think Vanishing or Fading or something similar makes more sense. It isn't like she gets any weaker as the timer runs out, it is just that she blows up once the timer runs out.

Goliath Doll: 3/3 Trample.
Each turn, put a +1/+1 counter on Goliath Doll.
If Goliath Doll's power or toughness exceeds 10, Destroy Goliath Doll at end of turn. 

:3

Quote
Outside of Necropotence, I see no way of getting 11 cards on turn 2.

Turn 1, island, done.
Turn 2, draw, island. Cast Ideas Unbound (Sorcery). As it resolves you can cast Gush (Instant, but you cast it after tapping for mana) by paying alternate casting cost (bounce 2 islands). You now have (sorry) 11 cards in your hand (well, until end of turn) and nothing in play. Both Ideas Unbound and Gush are Commons.

This works because Ideas Unbound does not require you to discard anything until end of turn.

It's stupid to do this in other sets, but direct damage Spellcards in this set make this strategy very tempting.

Necropotence is just an easier way of doing it.
« Last Edit: October 28, 2013, 02:03:37 AM by achicken »

Re: Touhou: the Gathering - Legends of an Eastern Wonderland (Magic set)
« Reply #64 on: October 28, 2013, 06:50:19 AM »
I see, you meant including bouncing your own lands? I wasn't thinking of that, but you are right, there are many ways to reach 11 cards if that is all you are thinking of doing.
Land Tax, Ancestral Recall, etc. Gush might be a common, but it is strong enough to be in the banned list.

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Re: Touhou: the Gathering - Legends of an Eastern Wonderland (Magic set)
« Reply #65 on: October 28, 2013, 07:16:36 AM »
Quote
Twilight mentioned on the last page that he that there'd be about two artifact creatures in the set.
I lay soundly defeated orz


Medicine Melancholy
The way her ability is worded right now, it won't actually be useful at all when she's attacking.  Try "When Medicine blocks or becomes blocked, target attacking or blocking creature gets -1/-1 until end of turn."  This means that if they don't block her, the effect doesn't trigger, but the other wording triggered the effect before blockers were declared, so there would be no legal targets at the time.

If you wanted her to debuff someone regardless whether she is blocked or not, try "When Medicine attacks or blocks, you may have target creature get -1/-1 until end of turn."  This can hit non-com creatures, but it allows the effect to trigger regardless of what happens during combat itself.

Ruukoto
Interesting.  I'm not the biggest fan of untap effects though.

Mimi
I would probably give her more than one toughness if she's going to blow up at the end of the turn anyways. 

Five Magic Stones
Redesign seems like a good idea lol.

Evil Eye Sigma
I feel like this needs something, though I couldn't tell you what it is.  Maybe some sort of drawback just to add some flavour to the card.  Like, "...can't attack or block unless you control another creature."  Or, "...can't attack or block unless another creature you control is attacking or blocking."  That lets you slash the cost, while keeping the stats high.  So you could do something like:

Evil Eye Sigma - (4)
Flying, Trample
Evil Eye Sigma can't attack or block unless another creature you control is attacking or blocking.
6/6

Not really necessary changes from a design perspective, but I think something like that would add a lot more fun and flavour to the card, rather than just being a big fatty that crushes people.

Goliath Doll
I like the idea of Fading/Vanishing on this instead of gradually weakening.  Alternatively, you could skip it all, and do something silly like: "Whenever Goliath doll attacks or blocks, flip a coin.  If you lose the flip, put a glitch counter on it.  When Goliath Doll has 3 or more glitch counters on it, sacrifice it."

Hisou Tensoku
I like this one.

Grimoire of Marisa
I would change this to "3, T:  Search your library for an instant or sorcery card and exile it.  Until end of turn, you may play the exiled card as if it was in your hand."  This cuts a bit of the rather high power that tutoring every turn gets you, but still gives you a rather impressive effect.  And then, if you really wanted to make it strong, you play Akyuu with it to remove the until end of turn restriction. (Naturally, once you play the card, it goes from exile to your graveyard to stop infinitely spamming the spell)

Sword if Hisou

"All creatures blocking equipped creature get -1/-1 until end of turn."  I am definitely in support of making this legendary - it is very strong, especially for its cost, and having more than one at  a time could be devastating.


Sutra Scroll
Uhm, I feel like I would approach this in a different way.  Rather than declare, I'd change it's effect to something like:
T: Imprint - Exile an instant or sorcery card from your hand.  The exiled card is imprinted on this one.
Equipped creature has "Whenever this creature attacks or blocks, you may play a copy of the imprinted card as if it was in your hand."

Not sure how good of an idea it is to add imprint though if it's going to be the only one in the set!


Flower Tank
I would change this to: "Equipped creature gets +5/+5, has trample, and loses all other abilities."  And then I would cost it at CMC 4 Equip 4.

Keystone
I would change it to:
"Fortified land is indestructible.
3, T, Sacrifice Keystone: Destroy target land.  Play this ability only if Keystone is fortifying a land you control."

Hokora
I don't understand what the point of this card is at all.  Unless there's a slew of cards involving shrines we haven't seen yet that justifies spending 4 to play it, 2 to equip, then another 1 every turn thereafter, I can't imagine anyone ever playing this card as it is now.

Donation Box
I feel like flavourwise this could have been a sweet Staff of Domination lookalike.  As it is now, it...doesn't really do much of anything.  I'd honestly rather just draw a land than draw this, unless I was using a bunch of shrines and was running a 5 colour deck and there were virtually no mana fixing options available.

Yin Yang
You know what I would do? I'd change the proliferate effect to "Tap an untapped shrine you control: Untap Hakurei Ying-Yang."  Either way, looks pretty cool.

« Last Edit: October 28, 2013, 07:19:57 AM by TwilightsCall »

KennyMan666

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Re: Touhou: the Gathering - Legends of an Eastern Wonderland (Magic set)
« Reply #66 on: October 28, 2013, 07:28:51 AM »
I haven't actually considered the other tsukumogamis to be artifact creatures. Huh.

Goliath Doll used to have Fading, but that ran into the issue of me not wanting to have one-off keywords that just appear on one card. Sword of Hisou originally had Flanking, but was changed for the same reasons. Don't want to use Living Weapon for the same. Noone's driving Flower Tank when you put it onto the battlefield. Then you can equip Evil Eye Sigma or Goliath Doll or Hisou Tensoku with it for gattai action. :V

You're right about Donation Box. So the second ability is now "If fortified land is a Shrine, it gets "1, T: Draw a card."" Make a donation, get a fortune!

TWILIGHT NINJAPOSTING WHILE I WAS TYPING AGAIN
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KennyMan666

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Re: Touhou: the Gathering - Legends of an Eastern Wonderland (Magic set)
« Reply #67 on: October 29, 2013, 12:11:39 AM »
There was actually supposed to be another update today, not with many new cards, but kind of a reflection of the last week. It didn't happen because school, then I was doing things with actual Magic cards because I bought some guild boosters and a fat pack today. My guild decks are powering up.

But updates will continue this week. Tuesday to Saturday will thematically follow the same colours as the last week, and start introducing the multicoloured cards. We'll also be taking second looks at redesigned cards.

This all supposing that University doesn't eat ALL of my time.
Fly & High!!

KennyMan666

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Re: Touhou: the Gathering - Legends of an Eastern Wonderland (Magic set)
« Reply #68 on: October 29, 2013, 01:29:16 PM »
Okay, let's try this.

Revisiting white
Of all the things I posted, white and all that came with it (well, aside from Land Sign) seemed to get the harshest response. Immortal was seen as an overpowered keyword, though it was in part through a misreading. Since then, more regeneration blockers have entered the set, and so Immortal is probably nothing to worry about anymore. It's still kind of underutilized, it's supposed to go into red as well, but only one red card actually has it and red spells can't grant it. I'm having a hard time finding more red creatures that could get it, though... but it's probably going to stay as it is now.

Many people didn't think Seiga fit in white, and that Soga was too powerful. Seiga I still wantt to keep in white, colour changes are unlikely at this point in time. Soga has been modified, so she no longer exiles everything she touches before she deals damage. As for why she exiles things? Because fuck you that's why Because I didn't come up with much to do with her. She throws lightning, so she could technically be put in red, but all in all she's a fairly forgettable character. Curse fits her like a glove, though.

And while we're on the topic of the taoists, there's two of them I haven't posted yet. And they're in the colour we're talking about, so:


Someone else I didn't post yet, but that becomes slightly interesting given the green update, is... well...


That reminds us of the spellshaper cycle. So, it's time to introduce the first of a mini-cycle here.


Merlin also got to be on a separate spell on her own, something her sisters so far haven't managed to accomplish:


Last of the new white cards for today is an aura that is special for several reasons, including that it currently no longer has Spellbind. I'm not sure if i should put it back.


Like that one song
Okay, story time. As I mentioned once before, it doesn't end with just one Planeswalker per colour (you can look at me disapprovingly about that after this update). Originally, however, it WAS meant to end with that. What happened was that I once opened up a separate set in Magic Set Editor, and for no real reason, made five Planeswalkers. A sort of "what if" Planeswalkers, based on the ones from this set. Alternate versions of them.

So, yes, each already featured Planeswalker has a second Planeswalker card - with a second colour added, to represent slightly different versions of them. Two of them could be considered "future" versions of the characters, whereas three are "past" versions.

First up is a future one.

So it's Byakuren. Originally saintly white. And sure, her motives are still white.

Her methods?

Not so much.

She's sought out another sort of power and became Byakuren, Fanatic Monk. (actually that +1 is pretty shitty. Going to do something else with it.)

So that's the rest of today's theme
Not fanaticism, but the colours. Four more cards with the colour combo of black and white. Starting with one that I'm not entirely sure if I'm pleased with, and i'll also let you look at it for a while to figure out what problem there is with it. I found it earlier, but decided I'll post it as it is because it's pretty funny.

Our dear judge also recently got to inspire a nice little spell.


Someone who was mentioned a few posts earlier, as a possible atifact creature. As I said, I didn't consider tsukumogamis to be artifact creature Only Medicine since she is a doll originally, and thus a construct. The rest of them have just become Youkai Spirits, as such:


For our final card in this preview, we're returning to Byakuren. And... someone else. it might be overcosted, and it's an aura that lost Spellbind because powerful multicoloured auras being freely castable through Spellcard casting would get... iffy.

Byakuren being possessed/controlled by Shinki was my original idea for flavouring a WB Byakuren - but since Shinki exists as a Planeswalker as well, it seemed weird. Instead, I made this aura that included the effects of both their ultimates.

So that's all for today. Kind of.

Extra stage - We design a card
So, let me tell you about a card I made. It used to be a blue card, that could be cast for either U or 2. It was an aura, a cheap aura, without much of an  effect, existing mainly to fuel Spell circle. Well, it's not needed anymore, but the card isn't completely axed. It used to be a Wizard Aura - but now I've decided to, essentially, make it the sixth member of the Wizard Instants. As a colorless spell!

Only problem: I haven't the foggiest what's it's going to actually do. So that's where I'm turning to you for ideas! What could a colourless spell with this cost actually do, to be in line with the other five?

And that is all for today.
Fly & High!!

Re: Touhou: the Gathering - Legends of an Eastern Wonderland (Magic set)
« Reply #69 on: October 29, 2013, 02:02:12 PM »
Two card with functional errors detected.

Star Sword Apologetics

"to your hand" should be changed to "to its owner's hand" as "your" always refers to the controller, which in Magic isn't always the same player as the owner.

Eiki Shiki, Yamaxanadu

Affinity only reduces colorless mana required to cast a spell, and since she only costs colored mana, it doesn't work. It could probably be changed to "Eiki Shiki, Yamaxanadu costs W/B less to cast for each Shrine you control." Also, why does the card have the multicolor frame when it's hybrid?

TwilightsCall

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Re: Touhou: the Gathering - Legends of an Eastern Wonderland (Magic set)
« Reply #70 on: October 29, 2013, 02:24:05 PM »
I don't have a lot of time, so I'll just write some quick comments now and come back for a full review later.

First, @JmLyan
MSE doesn't allow old-framed cards to be hybrid, so multi-colour was the only real choice. (Don't ask me how he even did it with Byakuren, I just assume it's a seperate template since I don't even have one for old-styled planeswalkers.)

Keine is too strong.  I'd rather she exiled something (once) as she came into play (effectively making her a Fiend Hunter).  Popping something out of play every turn is a bit too much for me.

lol @ affinity.

Silent Selene:
"Select up to three cards from any graveyards and exile them."
"Each player discards the top three cards of their deck."
"Target creature loses all abilities until end of turn."
"Counter target triggered or activated non-mana ability.  If an ability is countered, that ability's source loses all abilities until end of turn."

I'll be back to make more comments later!
« Last Edit: October 29, 2013, 02:37:14 PM by TwilightsCall »

achicken

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Re: Touhou: the Gathering - Legends of an Eastern Wonderland (Magic set)
« Reply #71 on: October 29, 2013, 02:37:11 PM »
Cards:
Byakuen (Plainswalker): Well that +1 would be useful in my old Pebbles deck, but then again by the time I'm gaining infinite life off that ability I'm already dealing infinite damage to an opponent. <_< What about "Prevent all damage to target creature"? (JESUS SAVES)

Shiki Eiki: Yeah, Affinity doesn't do anything. (1 colourless less can NOT be subtracted, it is not the same as B/W). Also, her second ability should read "...you may have Shikieki deal 1 damage to all players", since unlike her first ability there's no difference between the poor target player and everyone else.

Silent Selene: I suggest Boomerang effect (return target permanent to owner's hand), because every set needs the honors. T'would be a nice version too, because this time any color can use it.

Others:
Red does have regenerators so I don't see issues having red immortals. <_<

If you're still thinking about Reaper, there's the option of cloning the Skullcrack Effect:
Reaper (Whenever this creature attacks, players can't gain life this turn, and damage can't be prevented this turn)
Disregard if you've already decided to do away with that ability.

You can make Keine (Human)/Keine (Beast) one of those silly Split Cards. And she won't be the only one. Lily White/Lily Black is also a potential candidate.


Re: Touhou: the Gathering - Legends of an Eastern Wonderland (Magic set)
« Reply #72 on: October 29, 2013, 03:17:09 PM »
MSE doesn't allow old-framed cards to be hybrid, so multi-colour was the only real choice. (Don't ask me how he even did it with Byakuren, I just assume it's a seperate template since I don't even have one for old-styled planeswalkers.)

The old style MSE template does allow hybrid card frames. Since Magic Set Editor is a lot about flexibility, there are many things unique to the modern frame that MSE allows to be used with the old, like hybrid frame, flip cards and planeswalkers.

KennyMan666

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Re: Touhou: the Gathering - Legends of an Eastern Wonderland (Magic set)
« Reply #73 on: October 29, 2013, 03:57:36 PM »
I can do pretty much anything I want with frames, I have templates up the wazoo. Shiki got gold because I figured it fit better than hybrid, but I'm gonna try some hybrid frames too. Also, her second ability indeed makes a difference with the target: First, target player takes 1 damage. Then, each player takes 1 damage. So the targeted player takes 2 damage, whereas everybody else takes 1 damage. The Affinity thing was indeed the mistake I had already spotted but decided to post anyway because it was funny (currently, the comment field for that card in MSE reads "Affinity for Shrines. On a creature with only coloured mana in her casting cost. GRATE JOB KENNY").

Oh, and that's the thing I mentioned earlier when talking about Yukari's creatyre type. At the moment, every creature in the set except for Yukari that's typed Deity has Affinity for Shrines. Since Theros straight up introduced the God creature type, though, maybe I'll re-type all Deitys except for Yukari to God and make Yukari a Horror instead. Though the types of gods here - Hina, Mishaguji, Letty, the Akis, Suwako - aren't quite gods on the same level as the actual God creatures. Well, maybe Suwako. i would say that I'd be alluding more and more to shrines as this week unfolds, but as apart from some more deitys, there's nothing left until the reveal.

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TwilightsCall

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Re: Touhou: the Gathering - Legends of an Eastern Wonderland (Magic set)
« Reply #74 on: October 29, 2013, 08:58:26 PM »
The old style MSE template does allow hybrid card frames. Since Magic Set Editor is a lot about flexibility, there are many things unique to the modern frame that MSE allows to be used with the old, like hybrid frame, flip cards and planeswalkers.

Welp, guess mine is out of date then, cause I went into MSE to try it and it had the option greyed out for me.  My bad!

Futo
If only she had prored and problack, then she'd be double an Auriok Champion.
But don't do that.  She's fine.

Miko
Interesting. I'd make her 3WW though.

White Keine
Already mentioned this, but I'd change her to exile one on entrance rather than the excessively unnecessary power she has right now.

Merlin
I'd change it to "At the beginning of each turn, each player gains 1 life."  Then I'd probably drop her cost to 1W.

Trumpet Ghost
Wow strong card.

Star Sword Apologetics
Uhh, was this supposed to be put on your creature or their creature?  Because it turns whoever is on it into a perfect blocker, so I'm not sure who I'd rather play it on.
Also yes, reword this to "...return Star Sword Apologetics to its owner's hand."  Also I notice the old spellbind rules, is that just a lack of updating or are you still trying to decide what to do with it?

Byakuren 2
That +2 is way too good.  I would expect something like that to be around -3.  Also her +1 is no good, so I'd rework her in the following way:

+1: Byakuren deals X damage to target creature and you gain X life, where X is the number of Youkai you control.
-3: Return target Youkai from your graveyard to the battlefield.
-7: You gain an emblem with "Whenever a creature dies, you gain life equal to it's toughness."

Added some oomph to her ult because frankly, I'm going to be too busy picking up dead youkais and pinging people for lots to worry about ulting with her.  I originally had it so that you could hit players with her +1 as well, but that would be pretty overpowered too.


Shiki
I'd reword her ping to "Whenever a creature an opponent controls dies, it's controller loses 2 life and all other players lose 1 life."  Makes the ability more transparent, wording becomes more relatable to her other ability, and the damage can no longer be prevented.  I'd also make her a 4/4.

Guilty or Not Guilty
Dammit, Gatherer is down when I want to look something up for this.  I think the correct wording is "Target creature is indestructible until end of turn," but I'll have to wait til Gatherer comes back up to make sure :(

Kokoro
Uhh...I like what you were doing with this card (lol cromat), but I feel like if you're going to go there, you need to go all in.
So I'd make her cost something retarded like (W/U)(U/B)(B/R)(R/G)(G/W), then drop Curse and give her an ability for WW and BB (lifelink and deathtouch?).  Then make her a 4/6 to make up for the retarded cost.

Devil's Recitation
I was really looking forward to seeing what this card would turn out to be.  Let me say something though: there is NO SUCH THING as overcosted Annihilator.  Also flavour text correction: "Did she seek out this power herself, or was she only used as the vessel for it?"  Keeping spellbind off of it was probably a good idea, unless you want to retool spellbind so that you can only attach it to a creature that shares all of it's colours.  That way you could also, say, play a blue spell discarding a white aura, and spellbind that white aura to a creature as long as it was both blue and white.  Up to you though!

Moon Sign
You can just scroll up a bit to see my ideas on this one :)

KennyMan666

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Re: Touhou: the Gathering - Legends of an Eastern Wonderland (Magic set)
« Reply #75 on: October 29, 2013, 09:39:28 PM »
Okay, back home, where half of my netbook charger has been lying all day because I thought I had put it in my backpack when I hadn't.

So, a thing I said I was going to do was go through all old comments on cards and reply to them. While I'm sort of still going to do that, I'm not going to do it in one long post, but I'll try to adress as many of them as possible during the proper colour revisit post.

I had more things to say but I forgot them because I'm tired as shit.

Goddamnit Twilight stop ninjatyping

Since you mentioned retarded mana costs, well...

I take no responsibility for any physical harm that may be incurred from viewing this image (that one's probably changing but at the moment I'm too amused to not leave it as this)

...Star Sword Apologetics has the old Spellbind because I actually had saved that card image back with the other white cards a week ago and uploaded it today without thinking about it, not even noticing it when I previewed the post. The current version of it has no Spellbind at all. That card is a perfect example of me designing a card without having any idea of what sort of utility it could actually have, and it pleases me when that happens.

Indestructible was recently keyworded to being a quality that a permanent has rather than being something a permanent is. Meaning that before, cards would say "CARDNAME is indestructible", whereas now they just say "Indestructible". Compare the printed and Oracle text of Darksteel Forge for making other things indestructible.

While I still want comments on everything, Merlin working like she does makes more sense next to Lunasa and Lyrica and the card with the absolutely longest name in the whole set (53 goddamned characters including spaces).

Also, achicken: I had a split creature in the set once upon a time. It was Shingyoku. It was axed and made into something else because the way split cards work make it really fucking weird for them to be creatures. A Keine I made for an old custom set of 45 cards (she was one of three Touhous in that one) was a flip card. In the current state of Magic, she (and Shingyoku) would best be represented with a double-sided card. But this set has no split cards, no flip cards and no double-sided cards.
Fly & High!!

Re: Touhou: the Gathering - Legends of an Eastern Wonderland (Magic set)
« Reply #76 on: October 30, 2013, 08:23:59 AM »
@Keine: I'm not sure how I feel about exile and it returning to hand instead of coming back into play.

@Byakuren, Fanatic Monk: Woah, that +2 is pretty crazy.

@Tsukumogami: All Tsukumogamis were orginally an object. Medicine, a Doll. Kogasa, an umbrella. Kokoro, 66 masks. Whether they are colored or not isn't too important, but it makes sense for them to be artifacts.

@Silent Selene: Deal 5 damage to target multicolor creature.

KennyMan666

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Re: Touhou: the Gathering - Legends of an Eastern Wonderland (Magic set)
« Reply #77 on: October 30, 2013, 09:08:54 PM »
School is taking up more of my free time than usual. This'll be a reasonably short one.

Revisiting blue
The blue cards I posted were met with interesting responses. Ancient Duper is a strong counterspell. Sakuya's World has gone through a revision that involves something else, and won't be reposted yet. Declare was called "possibly underpowered", "fine" and "overpowered", so I'm still not sure what power level it's actually on, and it hasn't been revised any yet.

There won't be a lot of new blue cards here.  But there's a few I wanted to post. First, a spell from one of our previous blues.


Then an aura from someone I haven't posted yet because I'm not really pleased with how she's turned out yet.


Then someone and her aura.

Not really sure about having Absorb on it, since it's the only use of Absorb in the set. Even so.

And, well, one of the most obvious blue creatures to ever grace Touhou.


Less of a theme, but something new
Yesterday saw a bunch of black and white, but blue doesn't really have anything it's been coupled with a lot more than anything else. But we'll start with two godly being.

What I said about the alternate Planeswalkers being three past and two future yesterday wasn't entirely accurate, because today's is more of a straight up alternate from the same time. It's just someone who's... taking a more hands-on approach to things.

As such, introducing the second colour for Moriya, I present to you Kanako, Avatar of Mountains and Lakes.

The best part about that card? I had made her blue/red before I found out that one of her actual character titles was "Avatar of Mountains and Lakes". So that came together beautifully.

Anyway, Blue Kanako hasn't been given a new ultimate yet, as I'm still pondering what I want her to do for that.

So. Given that I consider Moriya's colours to be blue and red, it should come to no surprise that the other god of Moriya is those colours too. But speaking of that.

After the stuff about Shiki yesterday, I got to thinking. I first just put on her card that she cost B/W less to cast for each Shrine you controlled, but I wanted the affinity for Shrines thing the gods of the set had going to be thematically unified.

So I went and made a keyword.

It started as Faithbound, became Faithbond, turned into Landbound and eventually returned to just Faithbound, since it was stupid to do for other kinds of lands. It's a take on Affinity but for (with one exception) coloured mana, with a less stupid version of half of the for good reason much reviled Landhome mechanic from Magic's days of yore. Rather than ramble on any more about it, I'll just let you see one of the few cards that currently have it, because I'm still not sure it's actually a good idea:


So that's how it works. You can cast the creature even if you have no shrines, and it doesn't go poof until your next upkeep if you don't. Also, I went ahead and did the Deity -> God creature type conversion, landing Yukari as Horror instead. Only creatures with the type God will have Faithbound. Also, if the keyword is deemed an idea decent enough to stay, I'm not sure of the name, but at the moment the only other alternative I've been able to think of is Faithsworn. Ideas are welcome, but I want it to be something with "faith", and preferably start with it.

I realize you might not be able to fully form your opinions on the keyword until you know how the Shrines actually work, but, yeah.

So that's pretty much it for today. Well, except for one card that in retrospect I should probably have posted yesterday, not today. So, let's round off today with the only WU card in the set as of this writing.

Now this one is weird because if Faithbound becomes a thing it'll be the only card in the set with straight up Affinity. Whelp.
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Re: Touhou: the Gathering - Legends of an Eastern Wonderland (Magic set)
« Reply #78 on: October 30, 2013, 09:32:34 PM »
Both the posted auras are ridiculously undercosted.

Eternally Anchored Ghost Ship

Claustrophobia is similar to this one, except it costs one colorless more and only prevents it from untapping during its controller's untap step. So this aura almost completely disables a creature for one less. And it has spellbind on top of its already low cost.

Thundercloud Stickleback

Absorb 5 is a lot, it makes the enchanted creature practically immune to almost any damage, and on top of that the aura gives totem armor. For only 3 mana and with spellbind. It also seems out of color with blue damage prevention.

The faithbound should also probably only go on hybrid creatures, as "costs U/R less" would most likely only reduce actual U/R mana costs and not either U or R. Although it might work with "costs U or R less", hard to say as that mechanic is untouched by wizards.

KennyMan666

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Re: Touhou: the Gathering - Legends of an Eastern Wonderland (Magic set)
« Reply #79 on: October 30, 2013, 09:46:26 PM »
Before Faithbound was keyworded, I indeed had Suwako say "costs U or R less for each Shrine you control", but I figured that an U/R mana symbol means "U or R". MTG Salvation agrees with me in that  hybrid mana symbol is to textually be read as "<colour> or <other colour>", though the way I'm using it here isn't a way it's ever been used in.
Quote
As you cast a spell or activate an activated ability with hybrid mana symbols in its cost, you choose which color of mana you will spend for each hybrid mana symbol. You do this at the same time you would choose modes or choose a value for an X in a mana cost.
I... think that would mean that the way I'm using it in Faithbound on Suwako works as intended.

It's invoked with "Faithbound <mana>", so monocoloured gods have Faithbound (will have, at any rate, if it's going to remain a thing) for only the colour they are.

Good point on the auras, they've not been touched since the Spellbind revision. Harbor Sign should probably have been costed higher in its initial design anyway, I don't know why it was ever only UU. Thundercloud Stickleback should be redesigned since now Absorb is one of those one-off keyword uses that bother me.
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Re: Touhou: the Gathering - Legends of an Eastern Wonderland (Magic set)
« Reply #80 on: October 31, 2013, 07:50:30 AM »
@Kanako, Avatar of Mountains and Lakes: +3 is too strong. 0 has redundancy. Indestructible won't prevent her from dying. You need "Prevent all damage that would be dealt to her this turn."

Quote
Thundercloud Stickleback

Absorb 5 is a lot, it makes the enchanted creature practically immune to almost any damage, and on top of that the aura gives totem armor. For only 3 mana and with spellbind. It also seems out of color with blue damage prevention.

While I agree it is strange, it isn't like they never had damage prevention. Refer to Gaseous Form and Energy Field. Lore-wise, their prevention is in terms of "illusion". So, their prevention is more of a all or nothing deal, which Absorb doesn't do. Absorb 5 won't stop a creature from dying to Blashphemous Act or often times Chain Reaction.

For 3 to cast, Absorb 5 isn't too big of a deal. Indestructibility, a 3W Aura gives Indestructible, but isn't considered to be very good.

Re: Touhou: the Gathering - Legends of an Eastern Wonderland (Magic set)
« Reply #81 on: October 31, 2013, 09:39:58 AM »
While I agree it is strange, it isn't like they never had damage prevention. Refer to Gaseous Form and Energy Field. Lore-wise, their prevention is in terms of "illusion". So, their prevention is more of a all or nothing deal, which Absorb doesn't do. Absorb 5 won't stop a creature from dying to Blashphemous Act or often times Chain Reaction.

Then again, if you go back long enough, every color has had pretty much every kind of effect. The color pie was very undefined during the early stages of the game.

KennyMan666

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Re: Touhou: the Gathering - Legends of an Eastern Wonderland (Magic set)
« Reply #82 on: October 31, 2013, 09:51:21 PM »
This is late. Like, really late. School happened. I'm also going to bet that Twilight is going to ninjapost before I'm done typing this.

Revisiting black
Black was fun. If I remember correctly, which I might not do because I'm writing this while tired, it got a good enough reception. Curse was deemed powerful, and went through a minor change that for me still kept it the way I wanted it. Reaper... is still where it is before and we're going to actually tackle that on Sunday.

First, cards. First, Faithbound. Or Faithsworn, depending on what I'm going to name it. And still wondering if there's anything better to name it. So, gods.

I am... not satisfied with Mishaguji.

Also a spell that I intended to post in the original black post, but forgot about.


And then, a card based on what might very well be my favourite Magic card ever. In regular Magic, the effect has been printed on a creature with a name including the name of the original card. Here? I've of course put it on an aura.


Next in out mini-cycle is of course featured here.


And... I really don't have a lot of cards to post today. Have these two for no reason.


And well...
I don't have a lot of multicoloured ones to post either. Let's start in the obvious place.

The pure black Planeswalker was Shinki, the unforgiving ruler of a flourishing and powerful Makai. But it wasn't always that kind of place.

Hell, it wasn't always a place.

Someone had to make it a place. And that someone was her, too. What did she make it out of?

Mostly death. Because she was Shinki, Creator of Makai.

(I'm calling that ultimate super-Scavenge)

This next card I wasn't even sure if I'd post, because it has that one keyword on it. But it's B/G, and fits better to post now than on this week's green day. There's another that's coming at that time, though.

It's also the only creature in the set that has a picture that's directly from one of the games (but not the only card).

And... there's actually only one more card I can even post now, given its colours.


This was kind of a weak update. But this whole day has been kind of an off day for me. Tomorrow is... probably going to be better.
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achicken

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Re: Touhou: the Gathering - Legends of an Eastern Wonderland (Magic set)
« Reply #83 on: November 01, 2013, 02:45:36 AM »
Quote
This next card I wasn't even sure if I'd post, because it has that one keyword on it. But it's B/G, and fits better to post now than on this week's green day. There's another that's coming at that time, though.

If you ever decide to get rid of Reaper, the alternative is "Saigyou Ayakashi loses defender...".

Re: Touhou: the Gathering - Legends of an Eastern Wonderland (Magic set)
« Reply #84 on: November 01, 2013, 07:58:55 AM »
Quote
Then again, if you go back long enough, every color has had pretty much every kind of effect. The color pie was very undefined during the early stages of the game.

Even in the early stages, the color chart wasn't all that undefined. The definition also changed over time, as we see in White and Green.
White used to be the color to kill both artifacts and enchantments and Green used to be the color to kill only enchantments, while Red is the color to kill artifacts. The reasoning is likely because White is "pure" and therefore can destroy artifacts and enchantments.
I'm guessing when they switch the Green, their reasoning is similar, Green is "natural" and therefore can destroy artifacts and enchantments.

Blue doesn't prevent damage in the sense of preventing damage. I have already explained it. It prevents damage in the sense that it is an illusion. Which is why I mentioned blue's damage prevention style is really all or nothing deal.

For example, more recent cards, Fog Bank and Guard Gomazoa. These creatures have the ability of prevent all combat damage to it.

@Recovery "heal by desire": This seems like a bad card.

@Shinki, Creator of Makai: The -3 seems kind of weak.

@Tewi: She's kind of expensive for a 1/1. Kind of like a very bad Hypno.

KennyMan666

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Re: Touhou: the Gathering - Legends of an Eastern Wonderland (Magic set)
« Reply #85 on: November 01, 2013, 04:28:40 PM »
Huh, still no Twilight.

Shinki, Creator of Makai's second ability now is -X: Target creature gains Annihilator X until end of turn. Is that fine? :V

Anyway.

Revisiting red
Red had issues. Deathbomb was... less than stellar. Some of the spells could have been made stupid. Some things really were stupid.

Well, some things have changed.

Here's a list of short replies to all the comments I felt warranted a reply:
Twilight Spark has been modified, more on that later.
Yuugi has more red in her mana cost now.
Flandre now just straight up destroys shit. She's still flying because vampires are flying.
Utsuho now wipes everything including hands. Starxsword suggested for her to not hit enchantments since red doesn't hit enchantments, but having Utsuho do something that is't nuking the entire goddamned battlefield to oblivion is not going to be an option. :V
Star Sapphire... I'm not actually sure about. I don't want to make her deal direct damage, because that doesn't really fit the "annoy" part.
Agni Shrine is still at 4 damage since it only hits creatures and not players.

And what about Deathbomb? We'll get to that.

NOW CARDS.

First up.

Let's go PC98 with someone I was going to post last time but didn't.


Another card that was uploaded at that time but never posted is this one.

Land destruction is stupid, but...

Anyway, back to the PC98s. Someone mention looters?


And now I can post this.

Maybe that should lose Spellbind.

Now.

In this set, I've tried to be as accurate as possible with creature types. I've introduced a few, but not gone stupid with it.

There's exactly one creature in the set that has a creature type that is a bit of a joke.

This is that creature.


One more aura and one more creature before we go onto some of the real meat of today's update. Aura:


And the creature will segway nicely into the multicoloureds, because here's the last member of the mini-cycle.


So, multicolour?

Yeah.

Incoming really fucking long card name.



And how nice that those three colours are there because we'll be touching upon both of them in the rest of this update. First, let's get to a very special planeswalker.

This is one of those I consider a past version of a character. The version is - well, mostly fanon. And it's a dear piece of fanon to me because I spent some time Mapping Mima's Past (if anyone remembers THAT).

So, here she is, either shortly before her death or shortly after it. Before she became vengeful. While she was still Mima, last of the Honest Men. She's a somewhat atypical planeswalker, given what I've posted before. Maybe she can even afford to cost 1RW.

Speaking of red-whites and PC98, here's someones I had problems flavouring, really. It used to have morph to represent the third state too, but, eh.


I'd post this tomorrow for thematical hilariousness, but it fits better today as today is a day when I actually touch upon one of its colours and the other two have already been posted this week.


There. We're done, right?

I wish.

There's finally still the matter of deathbomb and I realize the card I'm about to post uses a weird wording. Basically, what I've done with Deathbomb is make it an alternate cost that you can pay to cast the spell whenever a creature dies, thus giving the spell a different effect. At the moment, it's usually taking the shape of "cheaper cost for a more pinpointed effect".

But you probably understand what I mean, at least.

Actually in a world where Deadly Butterfly exists this needs to be Spellcard 3 and maybe cost 3BR.

Twilight will have posted when I hit preview, won't he.
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achicken

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Re: Touhou: the Gathering - Legends of an Eastern Wonderland (Magic set)
« Reply #86 on: November 01, 2013, 05:55:45 PM »
Well the old Deathbomb wasn't less than stellar, it's just that it used an effect that wasn't usual to Red. Personally tho, I don't care about the color pie. <_<'

I'm not sure about the new Deathbomb tho, Starlight Breaker (....wait what she has that?!) is probably the only card which has an alternate, situational ability that retroactively gives a weaker effect that's technically a separate card altogether, tho I accept that its for balance reasons.

LOL at China channeling the Shivan Dragon.

PS: Star Sapphire - yeah, I wouldn't like her dealing direct damage, that's Sunny's (or Lily White/Black's) schtick. May I suggest "Target creature ignores 'Cannot be blocked by' and 'cannot be blocked except by' effects until end of turn"? I think that's chaotic enough to end up in red, and after all, Star is the walking motion detector... (no, not Volrath's one...)


« Last Edit: November 01, 2013, 05:59:49 PM by achicken »

KennyMan666

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Re: Touhou: the Gathering - Legends of an Eastern Wonderland (Magic set)
« Reply #87 on: November 01, 2013, 06:24:48 PM »
That would make Star practically worthless because there's literally nothing in the set with any ability like that. I'm not sure what red really can do to be mildly annoying that can involve an untap effect.
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TwilightsCall

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Re: Touhou: the Gathering - Legends of an Eastern Wonderland (Magic set)
« Reply #88 on: November 01, 2013, 07:52:32 PM »
Quote
Huh, still no Twilight.

I've been a bit tied up with something, lol.

I feel like this is going to be a big post.


Terrible Souvenir
Change text to "Put a copy of that creature onto the battlefield with the name "[XXX]."  Sacrifice it at the end of the turn."  This dodges all the shenanigans with the legendary rule, plus it stops someone from using the effect more than once a turn (which imo is a good limit to have).

Eternally Anchored Ghost Ship
I'd change it to 2UU, and then reword it to "doesn't untap during its controller's untap step."

Iku
I feel like she doesn't need the totem armor thing.

Thundercloud Stickleback
This definitely doesn't need the totem armor thing.  I'd also drop absorb to like...3.

Wakasagihime
I guess she's okay.  I would have expected more of a 'can't attack unless defending player controls an island,' but that's not generally an effect that works out very well on low cost creatures.

Kanako 2
Someone already mentioned it, but you need to make her 0 effect prevent all damage to her.  Being indestructible won't quite cut it.

Suwako
I would reword faithbound to "...one less U or R" just for the sake of transparency.  My gut also says she should either be a 3/5 or a 5/3, but you can ignore that if you want lol.

Rika
Mycosynth Golem suddenly looks much cuter.  I'd change her spellcircle effect to "Artifacts you control are indestructible," since it makes much more sense than immortal does for artifacts.  I would then also probably raise her cost to 4WU, and her P/T to 3/2.

Hina
Okay, though I feel like even with Faithbound, she's a bit too expensive for her P/T.  Probably evens out since she has curse.

Mishaguji
I'd make it BBBBB, change its P/T to 6/3, and remove Curse. Or, bump it to 3BBBB, make it a 7/4, still lose curse, and give it "Whenever this creature deals damage to a player, that player sacrifices a land."

Youkai Polygraph
I'd drop it to 1BB and Spellcard 1, and then add "You lose 1 life for each card put into a graveyard this way."

Filled Miasma
Seems fine.

Lunasa
Okay.

Price of Life
Wow, it's like...a good version of soulshift.  I'd change it to "...another target card with CMC equal to..." just to specify its not giving your creature a second life.  I'd also consider changing it to a sorcery, and making it "Sacrifice a creature.  Exile another card with converted mana cost equal to the sacrificed creature's from your graveyard. Until end of turn, you may play the exiled card without paying its mana cost as if it was in your hand."

Heal By Desire
I would change this to an enchantment.  Then I would change its effect to "Whenever a creature would be put into a graveyard from play, exile it instead.  If you do, you gain 1 life."

Creator of Makai
The -X change was a good one.  I'd make her +1 do deathtouch and lifelink (green has lifelink sometimes, right?) -6 is fine.

Saigyou Ayakashi
I feel like it's Spell Circle should be...much more impactful.  Maybe make it cost 2BBGG, and then make its spell circle effect "At the beginning of your upkeep, return a creature card from your graveyard to your hand."

Tewi
I'd change her spell circle effect to making her unblockable.  Otherwise, she's just never going to get in.  Alternatively, make her base effect unblockable, and her spell circle effect leeches a card (they discard 1, you draw 1).

Yuugen Magen
Is...half the card supposed to be censored?

Subterranean Sun
...I have no idea why this card is expensive.  I agree that land destruction is stupid, but I don't think it warrants being double the cost of a stone rain >.>
In a desperate bid to remove possible land destruction from the set, here is my proposed alternative effect for the card:

Subterranean Sun - 4RR
Enchantment
At the beginning of each player's discard step, tap all creatures that player controls that didn't attack this turn.
2RR, Sacrifice Subterranean Sun: Subterranean Sun deals 5 damage to all tapped creatures.  Play this ability only during the end step.

A dangerous card to play, but it has the potential to go boom and kill lots of stuff.  Just like Utsuho :V


Ellen
Cool.

Orreries Sun
I would simplify this card a bit.  Drop the cost to 2RR, remove the first strike, and change the second ability to "Whenever enchanted creature blocks or becomes blocked, it deals damage equal to its power to each creature blocked or blocking it.  Prevent all combat damage dealt by enchanted creature this turn."  Basically, neutralizes trample for an effect much stronger than first strike.

Meiling
I'd make her a 3/2 for 2RR, and then make her Spell Circle ability +3/+4.  Also lol dragon.

Phoenix's Tail
I'd change the second effect to "Enchanted creature has RR, T, Sacrifice this creature: it deals damage to target craeture equal to its power."

Lyrica
Something about this card doesn't sit well with me.  I feel like she shouldn't hit players, but if she doesn't, then she's not different enough from Lunasa.  Hmm.

Great Funeral Concert
I would change the functionality slightly.  I'd take out the sacrifice effect, and then rewrite the other effects to say: "[C: do X]. Play this ability only if you control a [C] creature."

Mima 2
'Last' needs to be capitalized.  Otherwise, her -2 seems...odd to me.  I'd probably change it to "Prevent all damage dealt to target creature this turn. It deals damage equal to its power to target creature."

Shingyoku
I might change the ability costs to WW and RR, but otherwise seems fine.  I might actually reword it to "CC: do X and Shingyoku loses all other abilities until end of turn." (It also loses this ability until end of turn.)

Nue
I would change hexproof to Shroud.  Then I'd probably make her changeling thing really gimmicky, like "Nue Houjuu has all creature types except for those that belong to creatures currently in play."  Not sure its a good idea though lol.

Starlight Breaker
I think its cost is fine how it is.  I would just change the deathbomb formatting slightly so it looks like:
Deathbomb BR - Instead, destroy target creature that dealt damage this turn. (When a creature you control dies, you may play this card for its Deathbomb cost.  If you do, you use the spell's Deathbomb effect instead of using the spell's normal effect.)

Regarding star sapphire...not very red, but it would be very canon if her effect made her blink.  I'm kind of stuck as to a good effect for her as well lol.


Okay that was like three updates in one post.  Have fun reading through all of that (bahahaha).

KennyMan666

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Re: Touhou: the Gathering - Legends of an Eastern Wonderland (Magic set)
« Reply #89 on: November 01, 2013, 09:46:19 PM »
...what the hell, apparently only half of the YuugenMagan picture uploaded. The filesize of the uploaded one is indeed wrong. Reuploaded.

I think Nue used to have Shroud once, but I changed it to Hexproof because... well, Hexproof has replaced Shroud in Magic. The last time Shroud was printed on anything was in Mirrodin Besieged, and that was nearly three years ago. So I don't use Shroud, only Hexproof. (figure out why me saying this is funny. No, it's not because I use some keywords that are even older, because keywords only meant for a specific set not being printed in a long time is something different from an evergreen not being printed in a long time)

Mishaguji I kind of really want to have curse since... it's a god of curses. Hm.

Green has never had lifelink on its own. A search on Gatherer turns up exactly two monocoloured green cards that can get lifelink, but both are reliant on other colours to do so: Cliffrunner Behemoth requires you to control a white permanent, and Stonefare Crocodile requires black mana to activate lifelink. Everything else green that has lifelink is also white.

Land destruction, stupid as it is, should... probably stay in the set to some degree if only for fucking with Shrines, but we'll get back to that when I actually unveil what the Shrines do.

New Mima's -2 is kind of odd. This version of Mima is kind of an odd planeswalker in general and that's what I want her to be. I could actually make it even odder by having her give the creature immortal rather than indestructible before fighting. Speaking of which, Rika gives things immortal because I wanted more use out of immortal. In my head, the flavour is that she fixes the artifact creatures when they get hurt.

Faithbound... to make it say "X or Y" rather than X/Y I'd have to remove the automagic rules text and rewrite the whole thing manually. Since there's no hybrid mana in the casting cost I really can't see people not understanding how that one's supposed to work, anyway. The part that bothers me with Suwako is that I'd like to have her on combat damage do either a blue effect, a red effect or a blue/red effect, rather than the current one red or one blue or one blue effect. I'll hit up Izzet for inspiration. (did I ever mention how much I fucking love Return to Ravnica)

I gave Wakasagihime Islandbound during the few hours that Faithbound was Landbound, then realized Landbound for basic lands was retarded.

Price of Life is proabably staying an aura because this set needs more auras, not less. That effect you proposed could probably be made into another card, however. Like... Exchange "Unvalued Life, Valued Life". Yeah. That name needs to be a card where you exchange the life of one for the life of another. While that would probably be even slightly more flavourfitting as a switch life totals with target opponent, that's not gonna happen. Heal By Desire, on the other hand, is probably better changed.

I also noticed that the black auras I posted were with an older version of spellbind, and the red ones as well, though red only is one revision behind the current one. The blue auras have the current wording, so just to clear that up, Spellbind currently reads "Whenever you discard this aura by paying a spellcard cost to cast a spell, you may attach it to target creature sharing a color with both."

By the way, wording/ruling question: Does exiled cards still count as being controlled by you so I can refer to "exiled permanents you control", or does that need to be "exiled permanents you own"?
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