The iDOLM@STER Mafia Thread 1 (Locked)

[Shadoweh]

Ahn~ With Conqueror-sempai on my side there's no way we can lose! XD Sugoi!

Thinking on it there's something in Serela's post that's extremely punchable but I can't put my finger on what it is. I think it's the weird justification of why Raikaria is totes okay since he wasn't lying afterall or something? Like why do you have to be told what the person you were voting actually did?

[BT]

I voted CF7 because some of his interactions felt like he thought Dark was null at worst and then others are blatantly painting his actions. I don't get the rationale behind saying shit like "you're making yourself a lynch target" and "you're digging yourself a hole" if he ultimately never goes there.

I was going to point out the same thing you did about Raikaria's "I've been wagoned for this" comment but then I read his vote rationale in #43. And the first point isn't that strong because, like I said, I interpreted it that way too. Though I do want him to answer what's going on here:

And your vote is pretty hypocritical IMO as well, as you say 'Darkie's not scum for forming a [bad] case early' and then lynch me for trying to do the same thing.

Shadoweh is pulling the opportunistic card but this is bad because (1) all that seems to matter to her is that I voted one of the slapfighters and (2) the people that practically sheeped my 'opportunism' get no mention. I also want to know what's wrong with Serela changing his mind.

[CF7]

BT, once again you're looking for contradictions that are not there. And quoting out of context is just plain awesome.
His case is badly written. And he might be overreacting. It doesn't make him any less suspicious.

Tbh, to me Darkie insisting that "lynching townies on D1 is not a big deal" is not a townie mentality at all.

And now people my wagon. Darkie, BT, Serela and Zak.
Darkie wants to lynch me over my silly RVS joke post. BT, Serela and Zak want to lynch me over my "contradictions". BT's reasoning can be somewhat justified. But Serela and Zak just went "sure let's go with that".

/cut

I voted CF7 because some of his interactions felt like he thought Dark was null at worst and then others are blatantly painting his actions. I don't get the rationale behind saying shit like "you're making yourself a lynch target" and "you're digging yourself a hole" if he ultimately never goes there.

I didn't vote him because i thought that argument just went nowhere and voting someone over RVS misconception is just bad.

Btw, can you explain this BS?

oh and I work towards getting my power by hammering, don't hammer if you aren't me

You say that you're getting power-up by hammering. Yet you're placing the vote, that is actually second on my wagon. Clearly a contradiction on your part. So.
##Unvote
##Vote BT

[BT]

I didn't vote him because i thought that argument just went nowhere and voting someone over RVS misconception is just bad.

I'm trying to reconcile this. You think he's making himself a vote reason and he doesn't have a townie mentality, but this argument goes nowhere? It reads like you don't plan on pursuing him but make him seem bad nonetheless.

Btw, can you explain this BS?You say that you're getting power-up by hammering. Yet you're placing the vote, that is actually second on my wagon. Clearly a contradiction on your part.

All I need to do is to unvote near the end of the day. There's nothing limiting me from using my vote until then.

[CF7]

I'm trying to reconcile this. You think he's making himself a vote reason and he doesn't have a townie mentality, but this argument goes nowhere? It reads like you don't plan on pursuing him but make him seem bad nonetheless.

All I need to do is to unvote near the end of the day. There's nothing limiting me from using my vote until then.

He's making himself look bad. I'm just pointing at this.
And vote/unvote shenanigans just don't sit with me. It is likely a scum thing.

[BT]

Why is it likely a scum thing?

[CF7]

It gives you an excuse to change votes at will and then just hammer any wagon available. Plus it's just plain weird for this ability to be town aligned. Even in rolemadness game.

[CF7]

And to add that. You could actually sit there not voting all day until hammering time and it could be justified because of your ability. And since you haven't actually done this i think it likely points at you being scum.

[BT]

Then why didn't you say that when I brought it up? All I've been doing since then is playing normally. I can't just "change votes at will" because I'd be held accountable for the votes I 'would have had' anyway.

Fake edit: that wouldn't have been justified at all. And if I were scum why wouldn't I take the opportunity to note vote at all?

[CF7]

An oversight on your part, you forgot your own claim.

[Raikaria]

addendum:so if his intent was not to quicklynch, your vote basically boils down to "your case is awful and you're silly." okay, do you think he's scum?

Well at that point I could see no-one better to vote over a pressure vote for the case. If Darkninja's intention was not to Quicklynch; which I read it as [So calling my case laughable based on you reading it otherwise is a bit silly and baseless], simply put, the sillyness of his case was STILL the worst thing in my opinion. Last time a checked making an awful case was also pretty lynchworthy.

I'm not sure why you're shrugging off the fact I've been wagoned/lynched for doing the same thing as him either. That's basically me saying 'We've found this stuff lynchworthy before.'

Also; as CF7 has said; and I did point out when making my initial vote:

Tbh, to me Darkie insisting that "lynching townies on D1 is not a big deal" is not a townie mentality at all.

---

Though I do want him to answer what's going on here:

I say Darkninja's case that Serela was defending was bad, and then I say Serela is voting me on the logic... that my case is bad? He basically says 'There's no problem with Darkninja he's trying to make a case. There's a problem with you for trying to make one though!' which seems really hypocritical and silly.

As for CF7 v BT, I see no issue in either a town or a scum role with a 'On hammering' effect placing votes before a hammer. Especially when said hammer is nowhere near falling. And especially since MotK town tends to lynch people not voting at all. Using your vote to show your opinions on people is neither town or scum. It's null IMO.

[Shadoweh]

I voted CF7 because some of his interactions felt like he thought Dark was null at worst and then others are blatantly painting his actions. I don't get the rationale behind saying shit like "you're making yourself a lynch target" and "you're digging yourself a hole" if he ultimately never goes there.

I was going to point out the same thing you did about Raikaria's "I've been wagoned for this" comment but then I read his vote rationale in #43. And the first point isn't that strong because, like I said, I interpreted it that way too. Though I do want him to answer what's going on here:
Shadoweh is pulling the opportunistic card but this is bad because (1) all that seems to matter to her is that I voted one of the slapfighters and (2) the people that practically sheeped my 'opportunism' get no mention. I also want to know what's wrong with Serela changing his mind.

Are you scum with Serela? I'm so sorry.
He didn't change his mind, he read what you posted and decided it meant his vote was 'wrong' and he should sheep you instead.
Zakeri gets no mention because he is the cutest.

Also, lynching townies Day 1 really isn't a big deal, we try not to but we don't exactly have the best scum lynch track record. Making sure we lynch someone who'll always be under suspicion/will vote for town in lylo because they told him they were town in his QT is kinda what we try to do!

Raikaria did you just ask Why Me and not CF7? Were you scum when you did those totally votable things or were you town getting piled on for what you saw as no reason?

[Serela]

It gives you an excuse to change votes at will and then just hammer any wagon available. Plus it's just plain weird for this ability to be town aligned. Even in rolemadness game.

No offense but everything you said here is pretty stupid

He can't "change votes at will and hammer any wagon", that's pretty much the equivalent of CLAIMING SCUM and no one would ever do that (except in lylo where any scum would be doing this anyway) and it's not weird for this ability to be town aligned.

Actually, I can remember previous examples of townies gaining powers through hammering in MotK Mafia. (Moriya Shrine Revolution)

Raikaria, sure my point was incorrect, but can you at least AWKNOWLEDGE IT EXISTED? My case was based on you making up stuff about Darkie that wasn't true (but was believable) and voting him for it. That would totally be bad. After you pointed out it actually did happen in one of his posts (which I had looked for but missed) I immediately retracted my vote. Stop whining I voted you for trying to make a case, the reality was I voted you for being a big fat liar and you should stop misrepping me.

Anyway, while my original bt-sheep reasons for voting CF7 may be questionable his last bunch of posts definitely makes me want to keep voting him!

[Serela]

plus the cf7 quote from my last post is implying that, like, he shouldn't vote at all until he hammers, which would be crazy untownie, anyway tl;dr nope

oh wait

And to add that. You could actually sit there not voting all day until hammering time and it could be justified because of your ability. And since you haven't actually done this i think it likely points at you being scum.

he actually said this wow

^BT actually doing that would be crazy untownie yo (and crazy unnecessary because everyone can just let him hammer if they want him to)

[DNAbc]

BT, once again you're looking for contradictions that are not there. And quoting out of context is just plain awesome.
His case is badly written. And he might be overreacting. It doesn't make him any less suspicious.

Tbh, to me Darkie insisting that "lynching townies on D1 is not a big deal" is not a townie mentality at all.

And now people my wagon. Darkie, BT, Serela and Zak.
Darkie wants to lynch me over my silly RVS joke post. BT, Serela and Zak want to lynch me over my "contradictions". BT's reasoning can be somewhat justified. But Serela and Zak just went "sure let's go with that".

Stop raising strawman arguments which I have rebutted already, like I have pointed out, that's not my argument. Extracting bits and pieces of words and putting them together in your own way won't help life suspicion on you.

/cutI didn't vote him because i thought that argument just went nowhere and voting someone over RVS misconception is just bad.
Btw, can you explain this BS?You say that you're getting power-up by hammering. Yet you're placing the vote, that is actually second on my wagon. Clearly a contradiction on your part. So.
##Unvote
##Vote BT

Your swap in votes with a poorly formulated rationale behind while being the leading wagon on here is purely nonsensical. Is this some strategy to divert attention such that enough time can be mustered for someone else to be targetted rather than the scum?

[Mitsuki]

Validon, Sky Paladin and SB are doing nothing at all. I think all three of them have just one post?
I'd like to hear from them or something. I could vote for them if we don't reach an agreement on who to vote by the end of the day.

I've just read everything but I haven't really paid close attention... I was talking with friends while reading (=w=u Not much is happening, anyways.
I think that Serela is being oportunistic and that everyone is going for the easy votes and reasoning. I'm keeping my vote on Serela because he seems to be worse than everyone else, and Shadoweh was supposed to read Serela well or something? (Please someone confirm this)

[CF7]

I rest my case.

[CF7]

But i guess i can switch to Serela wagon, so my vote won't go to waste.

[Serela]

The day started LESS then 24 hours ago and we still have most of it left, it's a -little- early to talk about voting people who haven't done anything yet >_>;;

[Serela]

But yeah, uh, CF7's reasoning for voting BT is literally the worst.

Even if you don't think CF7 is scum your reaction should be slapping him on the wrist and going "no stop go try to find actual scum"

[Validon98]

I haven't really said anything because what is there to interject? I found the whole slapfight between CF7 and Dark dumb from the beginning, and now BT, Raikaria, and Serela are getting involved. It's kind of going over my head a little, but I can see the points against CF7. I agree with Raikaria about the BT thing: a hammering role does not indicate alignment. It could be townie or scum, who knows? Also, even if it's a minor thing, Mitsuki going "let's vote one of the people who haven't said much if we can't agree! owo" is making me go urrgh, but it's not really indicative of alignment.
For now, though...

##Unvote
##Vote: CF7

Will be back later to reread stuff in case I've glanced over something.

[Serela]

Also, even if it's a minor thing, Mitsuki going "let's vote one of the people who haven't said much if we can't agree! owo" is making me go urrgh

no this is totally an urgh thing, it's way too early to even consider voting someone for not making posts yet and is an overly passive position to take on the game in general

[Raikaria]

Raikaria did you just ask Why Me and not CF7? Were you scum when you did those totally votable things or were you town getting piled on for what you saw as no reason?

Uh, what? I never said anything about CF7 except I don't agree with him jumping on BT much, and quoting one of his recent posts as a clearer version of what I said was my reason for voting Darkninja before.

I'd like to know where on earth you are getting this impression from.
===

Serela, I acknowledged your case existed when I counter-argued <_<. I'm not even complaining about you voting me since yesterday [As in IRL time], and you've made loads of posts since I last mentioned it.

Seriously with the amount of people acting like I'm saying stuff that I didn't say right now I'm getting worried.

Not liking Mitsuki hunting out lurkers when Mitsuki hasn't exactly been the most active player him/her self.

[Mitsuki]

no this is totally an urgh thing, it's way too early to even consider voting someone for not making posts yet and is an overly passive position to take on the game in general

I've kind of totally lost track of time. Anyways, the fanmeter can go down at any time, so how is now too early? You NEVER know when it's too early (?_u)
I'm quite sure that I won't agree on any of the end of day wagons if this keeps up, so I wanted to at least say there were other chances... oh well.

overly passive position to take on the game in general

I'm not doing much, but I'm voting you, not people not posting. I'm not being passive, I'm just not active enough.


I remind everyone that I can't be very active right now. That doesn't mean that I shouldn't care about other people not posting AT ALL. I mean, I don't know if they're busy or if it is on purpose.


I don't like Validon posting right after me saying that I could vote him and not posting before. But I guess that's Validon after all. <3 (Still neutral though)

[Conqueror]

I'm not sure why you're shrugging off the fact I've been wagoned/lynched for doing the same thing as him either. That's basically me saying 'We've found this stuff lynchworthy before.'

And you've complained before about the fact that you've been wagoned for dumb stuff as town. Okay so you think what he's doing is silly. So I'll repeat my question. Why do you think he's scum? Okay so darkninja was the best case at the time you voted him, sure whatever. But there's been a lot of other stuff, and reading through your posts I can't tell why you're still voting darkninja.

[Conqueror]

I think that Serela is being oportunistic and that everyone is going for the easy votes and reasoning.

explain why the votes on everyone else are easy votes and reasoning? this is really easy to say without stuff to back it up.

[Conqueror]

I am inclined to transfer my vote to you rai, but allow me a moment to compare and formulate my case.

just wondering, did you ever finish this?

cf7 your point on bt is dumb; find another vote. even if i got powers from hammering i'd sure as hell be voting before deadline to show where i wanted to lynch.

But i guess i can switch to Serela wagon, so my vote won't go to waste.

it's too early for the consolidation mindset. why serela over everyone else?

[Shadoweh]

I'm just gonna highlight the Why Me for you Rairai

Well at that point I could see no-one better to vote over a pressure vote for the case. If Darkninja's intention was not to Quicklynch; which I read it as [So calling my case laughable based on you reading it otherwise is a bit silly and baseless], simply put, the sillyness of his case was STILL the worst thing in my opinion. Last time a checked making an awful case was also pretty lynchworthy.

I'm not sure why you're shrugging off the fact I've been wagoned/lynched for doing the same thing as him either. That's basically me saying 'We've found this stuff lynchworthy before.'

You're right, you meant darkninja and not CF7. Forgive me for thinking you weren't talking about the even more obviously town guy. No one uses the word silly for things they find scummy, that's Serela's code word for PLEASE LYNCH ME I AM SCUM

I've just read everything but I haven't really paid close attention... I was talking with friends while reading (=w=u Not much is happening, anyways.
I think that Serela is being oportunistic and that everyone is going for the easy votes and reasoning. I'm keeping my vote on Serela because he seems to be worse than everyone else, and Shadoweh was supposed to read Serela well or something? (Please someone confirm this)

What do you think of Validon's vote? Yes, Serela is like a super-punchable mason/scumbag all the time to me. I'm not locked on yet though. #72 tonally is more townie tbh.

plus the cf7 quote from my last post is implying that, like, he shouldn't vote at all until he hammers, which would be crazy untownie, anyway tl;dr nope

To me it just sounds like a misunderstanding about what someone should do if they have a power that works on hammers. He thinks he caught BT fibbing, wouldn't you be voting BT too if you thought that?

[SB]

Pokemon/Dangan Ronpa/Skype/irl sure manages to delay posts.

I don't like Darkninja. He seems to have a basic grasp of how RVS works, but he's already talking about lynching someone for it? Also this is ringing alarm bells:

tl;dr: this is early, we are lyching someone, this someone better be someone suspicious so scum cannot exploit on his ambiguity such that it comes back to bite us later.

The bolded implies that he knows that CF7 is town. His fixation with the idea that mislynching on day 1 isn't the end of the world isn't helping his case either. I agree with the concept, but in context it looks like an excuse to push CF7. I feel like I'm wording this badly, but shrug.

CF7 apparently found him scummy too, but then went on to vote for NNR? Also the end of #24 sounds like he's coaching Darkninja in a way when he's saying that he's making himself a big target. And then in #33 he's scummy because of tryharding? Tryhards can be scum or town, or even ITP. It doesn't really matter. He would also apparently be willing to switch to the Serela wagon really early despite the fact that 2/3 of the votes on there are RVS votes.

And now people my wagon. Darkie, BT, Serela and Zak.
Darkie wants to lynch me over my silly RVS joke post. BT, Serela and Zak want to lynch me over my "contradictions". BT's reasoning can be somewhat justified. But Serela and Zak just went "sure let's go with that".

>"BT can be explained"
>votes BT

He also says gaining his ability by hammering is weird for a townie. Not really? In Touhou NOCfia on SF I got extra shots of part of my role by hammering a player I scanned as guilty.

I've been wagoned for this very line of thinking enough times myself.

My vote is staying where it is.

This is from Raikaria's #34. Assuming you're talking about times that you were town, why are you finding this scummy? Clearly you thought it was okay when you did it in the past. I don't like it.

Conq feels like he's buddying Darkninja in #55. If one flips scum I would probably look into the other, but it's a null tell for now. I don't really see any scum intent from Conq anywhere else.

I didn't like #75 by Mitsuki because it feels like she's saying that it's Shadoweh's fault if Serela flips town. I'm null on the "lynch lurkers" thing because lurkers are generally hard to read.

CF7 and Dark are the worst but CF7 already has plenty of votes on him, and I'd like Dark to make sure responds to me.

##Unvote
##Vote: Darkninja

[Serela]

To me it just sounds like a misunderstanding about what someone should do if they have a power that works on hammers. He thinks he caught BT fibbing, wouldn't you be voting BT too if you thought that?

Bad Play But Not Scummy Play did occur to me but it doesn't matter

His BT vote is just too BLUH and he needs to get rid of it immediately and do something else regardless of alignment. My current agenda has been to call attention to it to place more scrutiny and pressure and if he's scum this theoretically should be a really good thing! (If he's town then theoretically he should be able to start looking more like a townie before long but that part doesn't always work out)

...it's also occured to me I'm being way more aggressive then I usually am, but it's making d1 be fun instead of a painful gross mess so I'll just roll with it `-`

Cut by SB, darkie is pretty oddball so I can't criticize voting him despite having a wait-and-see mindset on him myself