Author Topic: Gensokyans Who Work (Read 10415 times)

Tengukami · « **on:** August 05, 2013, 03:42:52 PM »

One of the many things I've found interesting about Gensokyo is that despite it being a kind of fantasy sanctuary of idyll and adventure, there are people in Gensokyo who work. In the outside world, we work for money. In Gensokyo, excepting ordinary humans in the village, there seem to be two types of people who work: those whose job is servitude to a higher being or some quasi-divine calling, and those who work for no immediately apparent reason.

Take Aya for example. She runs a newspaper. Do you know how hard it is to run a paper? Just reporting for a paper is hard enough. Taking care of proofing, lay out, printing and distribution - on top of creating content for the pages - is a lot of work. I'm not sure about the rest of tengu society. Do they work? I don't know. I know they have an authoritarian society - I mean, the head honcho is called "LORD Tenma", not "President Tenma", after all - so perhaps there are, at least, tengu whose job it is to serve Lord Tenma directly.

But Aya takes it upon herself to run a newspaper, even though it's a lot of work, and she has no real "need" to do so. She could likely just spend her days zipping around in the sky and hanging out with people. Hell, some of the other Gensokyans might even like her better if she stopped reporting. But she does it anyway. Same with Keine and her teaching, Eirin and her pharmaceuticals, Mystia and her little scam going on, and many others that I'm sure I'm forgetting. These are all people who don't need to work, but do it anyway.

I think it's because Gensokyans, like people, like to feel as though they are useful and able. They like to have passions, something they can put their talents and energy into.

However, I'm opening this topic to ask you guys:

1. What are some other Gensokyans who work, despite not really needing to?

2. Why do you think they do it?

3. If you think these self-employed Gensokyans actually do need to work, what would happen if they stopped?

Clarste · « **Reply #1 on:** August 05, 2013, 04:07:56 PM »

I'm not sure why you're assuming that Keine doesn't need to work. Why wouldn't she need to work? She's human for 29 days a month, so why wouldn't she need money for rent and food and such? As far as I know werewolves aren't traditionally immortal or anything. Admittedly we know even less about Tengu society, but similarly there's no reason to believe that slacker tengu are given a free pass. What we do know about the tengu though is that they have jobs based on their castes, ie: wolf tengu guard, long-nose tengu make maps, and crow tengu gather information. Which is apparently the newspaper thing. So in that sense Aya is simply doing the duty she was born to do. There's also mention of some kind of newspaper contest.

As for others who work... Sakuya explicitly does it for room and board, Youmu's too stupid to realize she has a choice, Rinnosuke uses his shop as a front to collect stuff, Kosuzu inherited the family business, Eirin's trying to fit into human society, Reisen is Eirin's apprentice (ie: she works as part of her training), and in general lots of people love money. Because money is a thing that exists in Gensokyo. Your question was worded as if it didn't.

Mystia's really the only odd one out, but I doubt she wants to feel useful.

Tengukami · « **Reply #2 on:** August 05, 2013, 04:11:42 PM »

Quote from: Clarste on August 05, 2013, 04:07:56 PM

As for others who work... Sakuya explicitly does it for room and board, Youmu's too stupid to realize she has a choice, ... Reisen is Eirin's apprentice (ie: she works as part of her training), and in general lots of people love money.

Yeah, these are all people who work in servitude. I am asking about Gensokyans who are "self-employed" here, as I said, who might not even really need to work.

If everyone in Gensokyo needs money, then there'd likely be a lot more people working for money than there currently are. As it is, there are more examples of people not working for money than people who are.

Good point about Keine, though, and thanks for the information about tengu society. Still doesn't really answer why Aya runs a paper, but it is plausible that she was "assigned" the job of being Newspaper Person.

ToyoRai · « **Reply #3 on:** August 05, 2013, 04:13:22 PM »

-RInnosuke holds a store which holds all sorts of "unusual"items, from items from Human World, items crafted by youkais and netherworld articles. Why he keeps a shop can be questioned. Maybe his human anture makes him feel like he needs to work. Maybe he things he doesn't need all these stuff and wants to give them away (even through trades). Maybe he has nothing better to do and needs to use his powers on something. What would happen if he stopped? Then people would need to go ont heir way to find these items, which isn't the easiest thing to do.
-Mystia runs a grilled lamprey stand which she claims cures nigh-blindness, which is a lie as she causes the said nigh-blindness and then cancels it out as people eat. I am guessing the reason why she does this is because she tries to drive night stands what sell yakitori (grilled chicken) out of business.

Tengukami · « **Reply #4 on:** August 05, 2013, 04:15:25 PM »

Mystia is a strange one. I really can't think of any other reason for her scam than pure spite.

Clarste · « **Reply #5 on:** August 05, 2013, 04:19:32 PM »

Oh yeah, the kappa like to sell stuff at their bazaar so they can earn the money to make more stuff. Not sure that counts as "working" per se but money is something important to them.

Obviously Reimu also likes money, but she's more of a "get-rich-quick scheme" person.

Tengukami · « **Reply #6 on:** August 05, 2013, 04:21:20 PM »

Dangit, I forgot about the kappa, thanks for reminding me. I wonder when they made the transition from sucking the souls out of peoples' buttholes and deciding instead to focus more on technology? That's an interesting industry that opened up there.

Clarste · « **Reply #7 on:** August 05, 2013, 04:23:47 PM »

Well, apparently both the tengu and the kappa are trying to imitate the success of the outside world.

Tengukami · « **Reply #8 on:** August 05, 2013, 04:28:26 PM »

Quote from: Clarste on August 05, 2013, 04:23:47 PM

Well, apparently both the tengu and the kappa are trying to imitate the success of the outside world.

Really? What's the backstory there? I wonder what kind of "success" they're after. Maybe this is one of those "grass is always greener" things, where people hard at work seems more exotic and appealing than lolling about in a fantasy world.

Prime32 · « **Reply #9 on:** August 05, 2013, 04:29:44 PM »

Marisa supposedly runs a shop, but it's even more half-hearted than Kourin.

Malyszeq · « **Reply #10 on:** August 05, 2013, 04:35:05 PM »

Nobody ever even visits her shop, so not sure taht it might be called her "job". but as far as i remember she sometimes takes requests for youkai extermination, so this may be her source of income?

Clarste · « **Reply #11 on:** August 05, 2013, 04:35:16 PM »

Quote from: Tengukami on August 05, 2013, 04:28:26 PM

Really? What's the backstory there? I wonder what kind of "success" they're after. Maybe this is one of those "grass is always greener" things, where people hard at work seems more exotic and appealing than lolling about in a fantasy world.

Well, my source is an insulting comment made by Reimu or Marisa in SSiB, so take it with a grain of salt.

I'm not sure what there is to be confused about "success" though. Humanity won the youkai war, sort of. The light of civilization has pushed the shadows away into only the darkest corners. There are billions of people out there moving society forward without believing in youkai, while Gensokyo is a tiny mountain province where all the youkai are huddled together for survival. It's not much of a stretch for the youkai inside to ask themselves "why did we lose?" Certainly there are some dissenting opinions among the particularly spiritual, but just like most humans, most youkai aren't particularly spiritual, so they're not going to be asking themselves why modern human civilization is so spiritually poor or whatever. Instead they would focus on the flashy bits that stand out. The machines and the newspapers and the social orders.

ToyoRai · « **Reply #12 on:** August 05, 2013, 04:37:13 PM »

Quote from: Tengukami on August 05, 2013, 04:15:25 PM

Mystia is a strange one. I really can't think of any other reason for her scam than pure spite.

I think that's all the reasons what she needs. Because I think most youkais are free willing, all they need is one thing to get off their butts to do something.

Spoiler:

Bigger mystery would be why the heck she would form a punk rock band with Kyouko.

Also, Hina has been stated to have started making instant hina dolls (basically paper dolls). The reason for this is that people tend to keep their hina dolls, causing them to gather misfortune over the years, none of which goes to Hina. As such, the instant hina dolls allows her to gather misfortune as people will gladly throw the hina dolls down the river once the Doll Festival is over

Tengukami · « **Reply #13 on:** August 05, 2013, 05:13:39 PM »

Quote from: Clarste on August 05, 2013, 04:35:16 PM

I'm not sure what there is to be confused about "success" though.

Hm, I guess because, to me, living in a world of magic and idyll seems a sight better than a world of working to survive. "Success" has always been a subjective quality. Organizing labor into advancing their civilization could be one such quality. That's a fair point. But this is why I wonder about the solo carreerists - the self-employed and the entrepreneurs.

Kilgamayan · « **Reply #14 on:** August 05, 2013, 05:58:58 PM »

Purvis's universe, among many other headcanons, dabbles with the idea that, due to waning tensions between human and youkai and the gradual integration of the two species, youkai are taking more of an interest in human lifestyles. Humans work for a living, then spend whatever money that doesn't go toward essentials on hobbies and other frivolities. This could be a fascinating phenomenon to a youkai for any number of reasons, and it's not like a youkai is short on time, so they give it a shot to see what it's like. Perhaps some of them happen to find callings, strange new sensations that are hard to explain and yet not unpleasant. That must be what drives humanity to do what they do, they think, and because it's an interesting an enjoyable experience, they keep doing it.

MewMewHeart · « **Reply #15 on:** August 05, 2013, 06:19:54 PM »

Minoriko runs a Sweet Potato stand in the Human Village if I recall correctly, to either gather faith or just to celebrate fall I forgot which reason was it, but I know for sure she runs Sweet Potato Stand.

Tengukami · « **Reply #16 on:** August 05, 2013, 06:21:17 PM »

Quote from: Kilgamayan on August 05, 2013, 05:58:58 PM

Purvis's universe, among many other headcanons, dabbles with the idea that, due to waning tensions between human and youkai and the gradual integration of the two species, youkai are taking more of an interest in human lifestyles. Humans work for a living, then spend whatever money that doesn't go toward essentials on hobbies and other frivolities. This could be a fascinating phenomenon to a youkai for any number of reasons, and it's not like a youkai is short on time, so they give it a shot to see what it's like. Perhaps some of them happen to find callings, strange new sensations that are hard to explain and yet not unpleasant. That must be what drives humanity to do what they do, they think, and because it's an interesting an enjoyable experience, they keep doing it.

That's an interesting idea. And it has more credence when you consider that youkai already do things for "fun", and not really out of necessity. Work becoming another part of "fun" is totally plausible.

Sagus · « **Reply #17 on:** August 05, 2013, 07:53:52 PM »

It's important to remember that youkai require a purpose to exist. Since Gensokyo is more peaceful and youkai/human relations aren't really deadly anymore, many youkai probably had to search for another reason for their being, outside of "scaring/killing humans". Some might have found that on jobs and human-like work. Youkai in Gensokyo are also actually independent, living beings; they are free to choose what they want to be and do, different from when they were in the outside, where their whole existence was litereally defined by how humans imagined them to be.

Quote from: Tengukami on August 05, 2013, 04:21:20 PM

Dangit, I forgot about the kappa, thanks for reminding me. I wonder when they made the transition from sucking the souls out of peoples' buttholes and deciding instead to focus more on technology? That's an interesting industry that opened up there.

On a meta sense, these more technological inclined kappa is very likely a reference to the book "Kappa", by Ryūnosuke Akutagawa, where the kappa have a secret society that's very advanced (Nitori's theme is even called "Ryunosuke Kappa - Candid Friend"). Maybe a copy of the book fell on Gensokyo, and a bunch of kappa found it and decided to model their civilization after it, heh

Tiamat · « **Reply #18 on:** August 05, 2013, 08:25:31 PM »

I think Mystia does it because she's bored (for the evulz, for a purpose, for something to do at all, whatever).

From Perfect Memento:

"While walking along an animal trail, I saw a single food cart decorated with red lanterns. Wondering what it was I went closer, turns out it was the night sparrow's stand." (Boozer Rokusuke)

Akyu: There are rumors that she has started a food stand. Perhaps youkai can also become bored.

My memory is certain there's a line somewhere in an official work that Reimu works as a youkai exterminator "because she can't rely solely on donations", but I'm having trouble finding it. Could have sworn it was in Perfect Memento. Bah..

Kilgamayan · « **Reply #19 on:** August 05, 2013, 08:58:07 PM »

The thing about Mystia is that she's simultaneously human enough to take an interest in imitating a human lifestyle and immature enough to take it seriously. Anti-yakitori stance aside, it's quite likely she sees her eel stand as a part of a grander competition; perhaps she wants to show she can do human things better than humans, or maybe she's just naturally competitive. Being immature (and/or outright stupid) would also explain why the veil of the scam she tries to run with the whole night blindness thing is so incredibly thin.

Sagus · « **Reply #20 on:** August 05, 2013, 08:59:34 PM »

Quote from: Tiamat on August 05, 2013, 08:25:31 PM

My memory is certain there's a line somewhere in an official work that Reimu works as a youkai exterminator "because she can't rely solely on donations", but I'm having trouble finding it. Could have sworn it was in Perfect Memento. Bah..

I seem to recall something similar to that... didn't it also mention that Marisa sometimes "steals" extermination requests from Reimu? As in, does the job and gets the payment.

AJS · « **Reply #21 on:** August 06, 2013, 02:14:11 AM »

I imagine that the incredibly long-lived youkai need something to do to keep themselves busy so they don't get bored, through means other than starting an incident so they can get beat up by Reimu and co. I mean, gotta do SOMETHING with all that free time, other than just tea time and danmaku.

Sagus · « **Reply #22 on:** August 06, 2013, 02:53:19 AM »

You know, this thread made me think a bit on how tengu society actually came to be.

Byakuren says that the current tengu are totally different from what they were during the time before she was sealed; this, as she deduces, is the result of Gensokyo's creation, which allows youkai to determinate what they are by themselves. So, how exactly did tengu society evolve to what it is today? Youkai societies would be very weird; there's basically no new generations being born, and everyone is centuries, if not millenia, old. How was the caste system stabilished? Did they just had a meeting one day to decide that? Also, can a society that never replaces its inhabitants even evolve at all?

Other thoughts, Aya is over a thousand, and the Hakurei barrier is just barely over a hundred. What did she do before the barrier was erected? Did she just accept her new role as a reporter as soon as it was decided that crow tengu would be that? Youkai need a reason to live, so maybe she thought that this one was as good as any. Maybe when they devote themselves to something, it literally becomes their new purpose, the thing that defines their being. It stops being work, and becomes what they do to affirm their existence.

Eh, maybe I'm reading too much into it, but I like the idea anyway.

Clarste · « **Reply #23 on:** August 06, 2013, 03:32:40 AM »

I think it's implied that Aya was a ninja before the newspaper fad started. They're called the "Information Gathering Corp" which implies spies, and the whole "village hidden in the mountains" is very ninja-esque. Or rather, ninjas are tengu-esque. Ninjas learning their skills from tengu is one of the many "tengu taught humanity how to X" stories that aren't up to the level of "myth" but have some sort of place in legend.

As for Aya's personal motivation, I get the feeling that she's very competitive. A lot of her comments on journalism imply that she's kind of cheating, which tells me that she values winning. So the fact that everyone else is doing it would be enough reason for her to do it better.

Starxsword · « **Reply #24 on:** August 06, 2013, 06:44:52 AM »

Quote

1. What are some other Gensokyans who work, despite not really needing to?

2. Why do you think they do it?

3. If you think these self-employed Gensokyans actually do need to work, what would happen if they stopped?

The 3 fairies don't need to work, but they do from time to time. During events, like festivals and such, they tend to open a stand. They might be doing it for money, but that seems odd for fairies to want money. I think they are doing it for fun.

Quote

Other thoughts, Aya is over a thousand, and the Hakurei barrier is just barely over a hundred. What did she do before the barrier was erected? Did she just accept her new role as a reporter as soon as it was decided that crow tengu would be that?

If I have to guess, Aya probably wasn't a reporter back then. She probably does recon work. Youkai and humans weren't exactly on friendly terms back then.

Drake · « **Reply #25 on:** August 06, 2013, 08:20:38 AM »

Ammy's pretty on-the-mark with the "grass is greener" talk.

I think this whole thread can be addressed with this:
http://en.touhouwiki.net/wiki/Symposium_of_Post-mysticism/Part_2

Most of this section of the book deals with this subject; I'd say it addresses it pretty thoroughly, although indirectly, so I would suggest to read this part of the book carefully with the topic of "youkai working and why they work" in mind. I think it's intrinsically connected to how people in the outside world think, how humans act in general (why do humans work), and the existence of youkai altogether.

Sca15let · « **Reply #26 on:** August 06, 2013, 10:15:42 AM »

Parsee sort of works as a bridge guard ,which is one way to define what a hashihime is. She lives off of seeing the lives of those she introduces jealousy being destroyed by it ,which would give her no need for money to survive. It would be interesting to know if she gets payed for making sure people cross it safely or if it is taken as given because it is her purpose.

The only thing I could think of why youkai would need money is that they can trade with humans

ToyoRai · « **Reply #27 on:** August 06, 2013, 01:05:05 PM »

Where Yamame herself isn't stated to really do any work, her profile in SoPM does state that Earth Spiders are construction workers (and really good at that).

Malyszeq · « **Reply #28 on:** August 06, 2013, 01:26:10 PM »

Wait, how is guarding the bridge her work? I think it's rather like that she just happens to live somewhere nearby that bridge, and due to her boredom she spends there all days, harassing anyone who tries to go to the Ancient City, while the inhabitants of the city don't care, for as long as they have Parsee on that bridge, they don't have to deal with people from the village.

Sca15let · « **Reply #29 on:** August 06, 2013, 03:08:37 PM »

Any bridge of significant size was believed to have guardian deities that acted as gatekeepers ,originally it was a bridge prince and a bridge princess. Overtime the princess became the more popular of the two and the folklore changed. The hashihime turned from a guarding deity to a youkai of jealousy and hatred.
I am not sure how valid this information is ,but I think the change of the term also describes Parsee very well seeing how she guarded the bridge before she became jealous of practically everything.
You could consider it the work of her species.