Author Topic: League of Legends Thread 7 - Imagine if I had a real OP!  (Read 184586 times)

Mr. Sacchi

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Re: League of Legends Thread 7 - Imagine if I had a real OP!
« Reply #930 on: October 15, 2012, 09:33:27 PM »
Wait a sec support grab frozen heart

plz explain I thought only tanks built fh

Ryuu

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Re: League of Legends Thread 7 - Imagine if I had a real OP!
« Reply #931 on: October 15, 2012, 09:45:43 PM »
fh is generally too expensive for supports and at least one other person on the team will always get it anyway

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Mr. Sacchi

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Re: League of Legends Thread 7 - Imagine if I had a real OP!
« Reply #932 on: October 15, 2012, 10:09:40 PM »
Quick question, I take it Randuin's and Frozen Heart's aspd slow stack, yes?

Re: League of Legends Thread 7 - Imagine if I had a real OP!
« Reply #933 on: October 15, 2012, 10:19:23 PM »
Yes, but it's multiplicative not additive.

So FH + Omen is not 20% + 35% = 55%. It's 20%, and then 35% of the remaining 80% so 28% the total is 48%.

I think Omen's active is additive with it's passive though so then it's 20% + 70% of 80% = 76% attack speed slow.
« Last Edit: October 15, 2012, 10:21:32 PM by Suikama »

Garlyle

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Re: League of Legends Thread 7 - Imagine if I had a real OP!
« Reply #934 on: October 15, 2012, 11:15:19 PM »
Morello was talking about the itemization changes and 0 CS today.  He said he doesn't really want to get rid of 0CS... but at the same time, he says the problem is that "without that gold they have basically no item options", and that's part of what they want to develop - more (assumedly low cost) item options supports can take and benefit from.

Mr. Sacchi

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Re: League of Legends Thread 7 - Imagine if I had a real OP!
« Reply #935 on: October 15, 2012, 11:57:57 PM »
Yes, but it's multiplicative not additive.

So FH + Omen is not 20% + 35% = 55%. It's 20%, and then 35% of the remaining 80% so 28% the total is 48%.

I think Omen's active is additive with it's passive though so then it's 20% + 70% of 80% = 76% attack speed slow.

But does that remove like, 48% of the total aspd, or of the item's aspd?

Like, say I have a PD, and these calculations are correct, would the PD +aspd be decreased to +7% ASPD?

Re: League of Legends Thread 7 - Imagine if I had a real OP!
« Reply #936 on: October 16, 2012, 12:06:16 AM »
It's applied after all gained attack speed.

So let's say your attack speed with a PD is 1.000 attacks per second. Then with a 48% attack speed slow it is reduced to 0.520 attacks per second.

e: man wait 1.00 attack speed with a PD? I don't think that's even possible :V Well it's just an example anyways

hyorinryu

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Re: League of Legends Thread 7 - Imagine if I had a real OP!
« Reply #937 on: October 16, 2012, 04:35:10 AM »
Hmm...what kinds of junglers are there again?

I thought there were just ganking junglers(mumu, nautty, maokai) and invaders(Udyr, Shyvana, Skarner) with some taking a role inbetween, but with the promised jungle changes to occur in season 3, people have been talking about "farming junglers," and I'm not sure what the heck they're talking about.

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Re: League of Legends Thread 7 - Imagine if I had a real OP!
« Reply #938 on: October 16, 2012, 04:40:52 AM »
Just someone that sits in the jungle and farms for the later game. Minions used to be worth money.

I didn't like the S2 jungle changes much.
Top and mid became too snowbally and jungle became a 2nd support that couldn't win the game if his lanes totally shit the bed.

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Re: League of Legends Thread 7 - Imagine if I had a real OP!
« Reply #939 on: October 16, 2012, 07:08:14 AM »
Maybe I'm crazy for thinking this, but I'd like to see a champion that has the ability to reflect damage, or to convert damage into healing...among other things...

Ryuu

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Re: League of Legends Thread 7 - Imagine if I had a real OP!
« Reply #940 on: October 16, 2012, 09:44:15 AM »
I'd like to see a champion that has the ability to reflect damage

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Re: League of Legends Thread 7 - Imagine if I had a real OP!
« Reply #941 on: October 16, 2012, 10:13:05 AM »


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Re: League of Legends Thread 7 - Imagine if I had a real OP!
« Reply #942 on: October 16, 2012, 10:53:41 AM »
Har...
I meant as an ult.
Something like...reflects/heals all damage taken for a few seconds.
If someone hit them for 500 damage, they would either heal or reflect that amount.

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Re: League of Legends Thread 7 - Imagine if I had a real OP!
« Reply #943 on: October 16, 2012, 11:09:57 AM »
Maokai

Raikaria

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Re: League of Legends Thread 7 - Imagine if I had a real OP!
« Reply #944 on: October 16, 2012, 11:51:45 AM »
Maybe I'm crazy for thinking this, but I'd like to see a champion that has the ability to reflect damage, or to convert damage into healing...among other things...

Reflect Damage: Fiora, Rammus
Convert Damage into healing: Galio

Might make a cool support having several of those, however.

Also, I like to think of junglers as 3 main kinds, with slightly different names:

Ganking junglers: Alistar, Nautlius, Maokai Sejuani, ones with bad clear times and no invade potential that need ganks to work. If their early is ruined they lose.

Control Junglers: Fast clear speeds and/or good dueling to discourage invades, usually sub-par ganks. Examples include Mundo, Udyr and Shyvana. Farm junglers fall here too, as most of them are pretty fast with a Wriggles [Tryndamere, Warwick]

Junglers that don't really fit anywhere also go here [Trundle]

Invade Junglers: What it says on the tin, usually have slow-ish clears, decent ganks, and great dueling, and escape potential. Examples include Lee Sin and Nunu.

Generally Ganking beats Control, because of the lane dominance granted, the control jungler can't snowball it back because their ganks are poor, and can't carry late with their farm.

Invade beats Ganking because Invade junglers have good enough mobilty and ganks to help lessen the effect of the ganking jungler, while invading them and putting them behind so eventually they can't jungle at all. They can also shut down the ganker early.

Control beats Invade because most invaders can't beat control junglers 1v1 definitively, and this gets harder due to their fast clears, so they'll out-level. A lot of control junglers scale better than the invade junglers too, Shyvana and Mundo are far more useful late than a Lee Sin.

Some junglers are hybrids between groups. Lee Sin could easily be both a ganking and an invade jungler, based on playstyle.

Generally ganking junglers are most critical early, Invade is early but falls off slower, and Control becomes stronger as the game progresses.

If I had to split up the junglers:

Control:  Mundo, Udyr, Trundle, Warwick, Tryndamere, Fiora, Master Yi, Karthus [These junglers focus on farming primarily, and have so~so ganks, at least pre-6. They are scary or very hard to kill lategame. Mundo dosen't die, nor does Udyr who stuns everything. Trundle too, as with Warwick. Trynd, Fiora, Karthus and Yi carry.]

Invade: Nunu, Kah'Zix [Love to go into the enemy jungle over anything else and steal/kill enemy jungler]

Ganking: Nautlius, Sejuani, Alistar, Maokai, Pantheon, Rammus, Volibear, Shaco, Twitch [Must gank and snowball lanes to be relevant]

Control/Invade hybrid: Shyvana [Will almost never gank, always farming and stealing jungle]

Control/Ganking hybrid: Olaf, Jax, Fiddlesticks, Skarner, Amumu, Diana, Malphite, Hecarim, Syndra [Happy to farm or gank, are not useless if they don't get ganks early, but can snowball HARD if they do. Syndra is like Jungle Karthus, except her post-6 ganks with ult are pretty scary... and she won't carry lategame]

Ganking/Invade Hybrid: Lee Sin, Rengar, Evelynn [These guys will only farm their jungle if there is nothing better to do or it is right at the start of the game]

Other: Shen [Focuses on Counterganking], Jarvan IV [Can happily do any of the three pretty well, based on playstyle, but is a jack of all trades master of none], Jayce [See Jarvan IV], Gangplank [Can do all three, but also has global Ult]
« Last Edit: October 16, 2012, 12:09:02 PM by Raikaria »


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Iryan

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Re: League of Legends Thread 7 - Imagine if I had a real OP!
« Reply #945 on: October 16, 2012, 12:18:48 PM »
So we will be seeing more items along the lines of Madred's Razor and stuff? That might be interesting...
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Re: League of Legends Thread 7 - Imagine if I had a real OP!
« Reply #946 on: October 16, 2012, 02:59:13 PM »
Welp my brothers out. He just rage quit after the first game.

Probably my fault for derping hard as udyr, especially since they cj'd me hard

Also, we have a great free week, woohoo! Kennen, leona, gp, sona, kassadin, ezreal too much to play TT

Re: League of Legends Thread 7 - Imagine if I had a real OP!
« Reply #947 on: October 16, 2012, 03:01:11 PM »
Probably my fault for derping hard as udyr, especially since they cj'd me hard

Hes been struggling in 1100 elo. The other night he really flipped out.
Guessing that carried over into that game sry if it was unpleasant.

Re: League of Legends Thread 7 - Imagine if I had a real OP!
« Reply #948 on: October 16, 2012, 05:02:05 PM »
Wow. I just realized every rune has an aura in the color of it's optimal category. For example all resilience runes have a yellow aura because the most optimal resilience rune are seals. :V

I also found out you can have a page with one of every nonquint rune ability except for one :V
« Last Edit: October 16, 2012, 05:16:19 PM by Suikama »

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Re: League of Legends Thread 7 - Imagine if I had a real OP!
« Reply #949 on: October 16, 2012, 06:46:03 PM »
Hmm...what kinds of junglers are there again?

I thought there were just ganking junglers(mumu, nautty, maokai) and invaders(Udyr, Shyvana, Skarner) with some taking a role inbetween, but with the promised jungle changes to occur in season 3, people have been talking about "farming junglers," and I'm not sure what the heck they're talking about.
http://www.reignofgaming.net/blogs/stonewall/21498-history-lesson-the-classic-types-of-junglers

I do believe Riot actually talks with stonewall about jungle changes (and OddOne) so I'm pretty sure stonewall's definition of jungler types is highly relevant.
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Raikaria

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Re: League of Legends Thread 7 - Imagine if I had a real OP!
« Reply #950 on: October 16, 2012, 07:25:08 PM »
OK, how did I manage to go 1/3 in lane and get out CS'ed as Jax against an AP Nidalee? I was even dodging the spears. I know I getting poked early and couldn't catch the Nidalee that kept escaping with a trollface and 10 HP.

Even more importantly, how the hell did I get 6 items before 45 mins and carry the game like a total boss after getting shut down in lane? When all our lanes were losing?


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Re: League of Legends Thread 7 - Imagine if I had a real OP!
« Reply #951 on: October 16, 2012, 08:25:29 PM »
Examples include Mundo, Udyr and Shyvana.

these are all invade junglers.

Quote
Farm junglers fall here too, as most of them are pretty fast with a Wriggles [Tryndamere, Warwick]

farm junglers are poop and can get shit on by any invade jungler due to their slow farm and the fact that wriggles is a huge waste of money on pretty much everyone, including them.

Quote
Junglers that don't really fit anywhere also go here [Trundle]

trundle can do everything good but he just can't do everything great. he also has some auto animation issues that hold him back. also also he does single target damage which is a big no-no in current jungle.

Quote
Invade Junglers: What it says on the tin, usually have slow-ish clears, decent ganks, and great dueling, and escape potential. Examples include Lee Sin and Nunu.

>literally saying lee sin has slow clears

also lee sin has a lot better than decent ganks. and nunu's ganks are a lot worse than decent as they require most of the damage to come from the lane.

Quote
Generally Ganking beats Control, because of the lane dominance granted, the control jungler can't snowball it back because their ganks are poor, and can't carry late with their farm.

you have this backwards. control junglers eat so much of the opposing jungle that they keep the ganker underleveled. they ward and track the ganker to counter gank constantly and eat them because of them having no exp.

this is, of course, assuming that the level 2 gank for the ganker doesn't result in a kill.

Quote
Invade beats Ganking because Invade junglers have good enough mobilty and ganks to help lessen the effect of the ganking jungler, while invading them and putting them behind so eventually they can't jungle at all. They can also shut down the ganker early.

ACTUAL invade junglers, like shyvana for example, are only really good at invading because they have nothing on their kit to really assist with ganks and make them happen(or the things they do have are poor). this is matchup dependent, but invades will often lose against gankers because they don't have the countergank(ie really good cc) potential of a control jungler, so the ganker can just gank successfully and get their cash that way.

Quote
Control beats Invade because most invaders can't beat control junglers 1v1 definitively, and this gets harder due to their fast clears, so they'll out-level. A lot of control junglers scale better than the invade junglers too, Shyvana and Mundo are far more useful late than a Lee Sin.

tbh all junglers scale poorly but this is generally right

Quote
Some junglers are hybrids between groups. Lee Sin could easily be both a ganking and an invade jungler, based on playstyle.

lee sin does it all. with style.

Quote
Control:  Mundo, Udyr, Trundle, Warwick, Tryndamere, Fiora, Master Yi, Karthus [These junglers focus on farming primarily, and have so~so ganks, at least pre-6. They are scary or very hard to kill lategame. Mundo dosen't die, nor does Udyr who stuns everything. Trundle too, as with Warwick. Trynd, Fiora, Karthus and Yi carry.]

mundo is invade. warwick is a ganker but has to wait until six.

tryndamere, fiora, master yi and karthus are farmers, not control.

Quote
Invade: Nunu, Kah'Zix [Love to go into the enemy jungle over anything else and steal/kill enemy jungler]

invades as a class typically don't actually try to kill the enemy jungler. they might go in and harass a bit to put them behind, but their main goal is to just get the enemy jungler behind by stealing everything. also iirc kha'zix was a ganker.

Quote
Control/Invade hybrid: Shyvana [Will almost never gank, always farming and stealing jungle]

she's just invade. she lacks anything to actually control the enemy jungle.

Quote
Control/Ganking hybrid: Olaf, Jax, Fiddlesticks, Skarner, Amumu, Diana, Malphite, Hecarim, Syndra [Happy to farm or gank, are not useless if they don't get ganks early, but can snowball HARD if they do. Syndra is like Jungle Karthus, except her post-6 ganks with ult are pretty scary... and she won't carry lategame]

why is syndra here she is currently too terrible to do anything

also going to point out here that any jungler that "just wants to farm" is really bad rn. there is just not enough gold in the jungle to make it worth it. there is a reason that a lot of the single target farmers(tryndamere, gangplank) are just not played in the jungle anymore. that reason is also the same reason that why old aoe farmers(udyr, shyvana) have moved into other classes.

Quote
Other: Shen [Focuses on Counterganking], Jarvan IV [Can happily do any of the three pretty well, based on playstyle, but is a jack of all trades master of none], Jayce [See Jarvan IV], Gangplank [Can do all three, but also has global Ult]

shen is really good at ganking in general what with the aoe cc. jayce and gangplank are a million times better top(which is a recurring theme in a lot of your listed junglers)

Even more importantly, how the hell did I get 6 items before 45 mins and carry the game like a total boss after getting shut down in lane? When all our lanes were losing?

because jax has ez mode farming and carries real hard late game

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Re: League of Legends Thread 7 - Imagine if I had a real OP!
« Reply #952 on: October 16, 2012, 08:27:48 PM »
oh boy bot lane combo free week

Iryan

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Re: League of Legends Thread 7 - Imagine if I had a real OP!
« Reply #953 on: October 16, 2012, 08:36:21 PM »
oh boy bot lane combo free week
Support Kennen + AD carry Annie gogo
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Re: League of Legends Thread 7 - Imagine if I had a real OP!
« Reply #954 on: October 16, 2012, 09:23:34 PM »
i forgot to add the "i haven't jungled all season" disclaimer

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hyorinryu

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Re: League of Legends Thread 7 - Imagine if I had a real OP!
« Reply #955 on: October 16, 2012, 10:00:08 PM »
What's the difference between an Invader vs. a Control. It sounded like they were the same.

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Re: League of Legends Thread 7 - Imagine if I had a real OP!
« Reply #956 on: October 16, 2012, 11:50:58 PM »
Broke 1350, HELLS YES :toot:

Also, a curious fact: every Skarner that I've played with in ranked in the past couple days has gone complete beast mode, usually ending something like 10/1/17.  Strange, but totally awesome.

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Re: League of Legends Thread 7 - Imagine if I had a real OP!
« Reply #957 on: October 17, 2012, 01:06:16 AM »
Holy shit why is this champ so broken. First time playing her and ahaha oh man. Top lane dies to a gank but they're both low so I just swoop in with my super fast boots and clean up. Repeat for every lane. Man she feels like what DunkMaster Yi should have been.

I still suck at farming really bad, though I guess it's different with Eve since she roams a lot but still bleh it feels like I'm not progressing in my build as fast as I should despite getting all those kills.
« Last Edit: October 17, 2012, 01:07:58 AM by Suikama »

Re: League of Legends Thread 7 - Imagine if I had a real OP!
« Reply #958 on: October 17, 2012, 01:35:55 AM »
Let me guess. Morde forced the fuck out his lane and you lost creeps on the tower?

Ryuu

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Re: League of Legends Thread 7 - Imagine if I had a real OP!
« Reply #959 on: October 17, 2012, 01:41:30 AM »
What's the difference between an Invader vs. a Control. It sounded like they were the same.

invaders focus on stealing enemy jungle and directly influencing the enemy jungler and putting them behind

controllers focus on getting their own camps, safely denying enemy camps, and counterganking the enemy jungler

http://ryuukyunplaysstuff.tumblr.com/ read about me playing league i guess