Author Topic: Let's 1CC PCB Lunatic!  (Read 11698 times)

Heartbeam

Re: Let's 1CC PCB Lunatic!
« Reply #30 on: June 01, 2010, 11:57:06 PM »
bomb more

That's not the problem this time.

Okay, your post didn't ask for this but I'm going to pick away at three things then get back to your actual post.  This isn't meant to attack your way of handling things but just an observation after going through your thread.  I've also only watched your single stage five run and the latest one, the appropriately named "coward's run", so some thoughts might be off the mark with this impression.

You said you learned the stage four stage portion on Normal and recognized that Lunatic runs behind the same idea, and you still know how to deal with it.  I don't know if it's because there's been a gap in practice after one month or your spirit was broken this run, but you clearly fell apart on that stage.  Some parts you even set yourself up perfectly to get trapped in, like the blue shotgun fairies.  Go for more items.  If I picked up as many as you did I would have ended 0/0 on my first clear.

Ageless Obsession you never said you got down, but did say you now have the means to do so through stage practice.  Nothing to say here.

Okay, GOAST KNIVES!  I guess this one is actually attacking your method, and you said you'd try the saner method later, but I can't believe you rolled with that in a full run.   I commend you and everyone else who's doing it for a display of bravery, but my breath stopped when watching you go through a certain set of those bubble waves.  It's probably myself that needs to be re-acquainted with the hitboxes.



Quote from: Rook
I'm not getting better.

Since when?  Did you feel better about a run that was done the day before?  A run you did right before this one?  It won't be a steady wave of performance but you will see a general increase.  What's with the first screenshot in the thread?  Yes, there's that thread which pertains to the upper limit of skill but I won't get into that.

Quote
I'm not capturing anything in the "seems doable but not quite consistent" range--you won't see Components of Konpaku, the Foggy London Dolls lookalike, or Chalk-White Russian Dolls in here

Non-practice runs showcasing multiple captures are built on top of a 1CC.  You say you're not capturing "seems doable but not quite consistent" spell cards.  Since recently?  Like only this one?  It's not quite consistent so it's over a 50% rate?  Not unlikely to fail all of them at once, you've been at it too long in a single session, your mindset, maybe it's your biorhythm, I don't know.  Too little information.

Quote from: Rook
I made it to Resurrection Blossom.  I'm almost to the 1cc.  I'm just afraid it won't mean anything.

To whom are you afraid it won't mean anything?  To you or the public that cares about these games?  If it matters to you and you want to do more than that then the current goal doesn't have to sit at a 1CC.  It's only a benchmark just like any other you can create.  Certain number of misses, spell captures, score, self-imposed handicaps, whatever.  Some people will fulfill an achievement but know whether or not it was refined, and they might be prompted to do the same thing over.  Not just for 1CCs or scores.

Here's an analogy.  I used to play WoW and rolled with a raiding guild.  So we spend a night plugging away at the boss, learning the ins and outs of the fight ("This is what fire looks like."  "This is how the fire moves."  "This is how hard the adds hit."  "This is when you run away--right now.").  Then we spend another night on the same boss, working on our execution.  Sometimes we wipe 30 seconds in, sometimes we get it down to 3%, but we're learning all the way.  Even simple mistakes that never came up before.  Now you know not to do that.

The boss eventually goes down.  Maybe that one dumbass finally sharpened up, maybe he was kicked out of the raid, maybe we got all our little (fatal) mistakes out of our system for that one attempt.  Either way, the boss has toppled over and the raid is in high spirits.  It didn't matter if we survived with only five people; we made it.  Now, the magical part is next week we'll down the boss in less than a quarter of the time it initially took; the week after that, two attempts at most.  The part about succeeding with only five people left is a rare case.  Most of the time our first downing of the boss is with flying colors ("Now was that so hard?"), and the consistency built up from the previous attempts has been reinforced with newfound confidence.

Of course you can't be lax about it after the first victory or you'll quickly regress.  A case in point is Vael the guild breaker.  Luck unfortunately plays a part in the fight, but it's up to every player to pull their weight if you want to see the end of it.  And it wouldn't stop there; some guilds have placed him on 'farm' status while they worked up to the final boss of the dungeon only to wipe on him one week.  Again and again until the guild cracks.

So the point is if you're working towards a goal and have to go through much effort to get to it, you'll definitely be pleased when the pressure is off as you finally attain that goal.  Then you can nitpick at the run after the fact and go through the same thing again, but most important is the boost in confidence you receive.  It'll be worth it, and in conjunction with your previous efforts the next 1CC under the same settings will come much sooner.

After seeing the run I have little doubt you'll know you tried (all those deathbombs are commendable) when you score the 1CC.  Save the run when you do and don't lose it; it'll never get old.
« Last Edit: June 02, 2010, 01:27:42 AM by Heartbeam »

Drake

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Re: Let's 1CC PCB Lunatic!
« Reply #31 on: June 02, 2010, 03:06:52 AM »
That's not the problem this time.
I was being facetious :3

A Colorful Calculating Creative and Cuddly Crafty Callipygous Clever Commander
- original art by Aiけん | ウサホリ -

Heartbeam

Re: Let's 1CC PCB Lunatic!
« Reply #32 on: June 02, 2010, 03:35:32 AM »
I was being facetious :3

Surely you would want to offer words of wisdom (or link to an appropriate post) rather than toss out your catch-all phrase?  I enjoy reading your input.

Drake

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Re: Let's 1CC PCB Lunatic!
« Reply #33 on: June 02, 2010, 05:23:35 AM »
Of course. Warning that I may be a tad harsh, dunno.

First of all, get rid of that stupid defeatist attitude.  Especially in regards to Touhou, attitudes like that are a surefire way to never get any better. It doesn't matter that you're doing badly. You just keep working at it until you win. That's how these games work (or at least, somewhat).

-Learn the latter half of stage 2. In particular, nab the fairies that come from the sides instead of just sitting at the bottom, and it's really just moving back and forth across the screen. Learn to not stay near the yellow circles either, you already know it means they're about the pop up (and shoot).

-Chen's opener. Micrododge it. Following the small angled wall will, as you know, get you hit. Don't rush to the corner either, you're not hitting Chen that way.

-Definitely do not sit at the bottom in Pentagram Crest. Stay above the bottom so you can dodge downwards, because you'll need to. Other than that, it's just dodging.

-Cherub's Rampage is micromemorizable. Learn it.

-At least try to use only one bomb on Kimontokou. You need to stay a bit lower down this time.

-Stage 3 fairies. Kill them as fast as you can. They shoot the whole way down, so you're only going to screw yourself up by staying still. This goes for the entire stage.


At this point I really noticed this odd thing you do. For some reason you kind of stop focusing for a bit and jiggle around. Whether it's meant as dodging, or extra damage, or some weird plot to get more cherry, it's not working. If you want to whore cherry, unfocus on easy streaming parts. You're barely even getting any graze or whatever like that.

At this point, I also realized you are very, very afraid of the bullets. I'm almost wondering why you're seriously going for a Lunatic 1cc if you're so afraid of the bullets that you're barely moving. I might suggest to you to upload a Hard 1cc just to see what the heck you're doing.


-Dodge Russian Dolls higher up. You're pretty much going to want to dodge almost at where the fairies spawn, because the bullets are much more bunched together.

-Like Heartbeam said, the fairies that fire red and blue spreads you're supposed to wipe out point-blank. Just stay right above POC and stream it all. Everything after those and before Lily, just don't do anything. They'll fire aimed green shots that you just tap and shrug off.

-What the hell were you doing on Live Poltergeist. If you can't capture this card microtapping, you're definitely not going to get anywhere trying to survive unfocused, nevertheless actually whore cherry off it. Even when you started focusing, you didn't exactly stop the wave from going anywhere. You really don't need to move that much. In addition, stay under Lyrica instead of Lunasa. Her nonspell and spell are definitely the easiest out of all of them as the former consists of just tapping a few times and the latter consists of not walling yourself in.

-The dive into Concerto Grosso made me "wat" but if you're going to bomb it anyways then I don't really care what you do here.

-Learn Stage 5.

-Why did you not even bother with half of everything Youmu throws at you. I guess you could just bomb stuff for the 1cc, but you're still going to have to learn it eventually. If you need to learn other stuff anyways...

-During Components of Konpaku, whatever you do, don't dodge back down towards more bullets. For some reason, you did this.

-Safespot Ageless Obsession.

-During Yuyuko's second noncard you can really just move to the left and right of Yuyuko. You'll have to deal with a few bullets, but it really isn't too difficult and it takes her down much faster.



Yeah so in conclusion (??!??!)
Once again, stop talking down on yourself. Your self-esteem will only plummet and you'll never work up the confidence to actually nab the clear. Next, practice the stages and/or go through more runs. It doesn't seem like you've grasped how to handle certain things, but that can easily be fixed with some practice and replay-watching. Most of the things you need to learn I covered up above (which incidentally is a lot). Thiiiird, the "bomb more" comment was totally sarcastic and I truly do mean the opposite. Of course if you really really want that 1cc you can go ahead with a coward run, but in my opinion along with many others it would truly be more gratifying to know you completed the game by being awesome instead of relying on bombs. However, I am quite proud (or something) that you are in fact using your bombs unlike many others.

This may be a tad offensive but I really mean none; you kind of play like a Normal mode player. You're almost scared of the bullets and you're not sure enough of the bullet trajectories that you can run through patterns properly (especially noted on stage 3). I'm going to ask for a replay of a Hard mode 1cc. Not an old one, but I want you to do it fresh. It should be fairly easy if you're going for Lunatic.

A Colorful Calculating Creative and Cuddly Crafty Callipygous Clever Commander
- original art by Aiけん | ウサホリ -

Re: Let's 1CC PCB Lunatic!
« Reply #34 on: June 03, 2010, 03:36:03 AM »
A quick reply for now: I'll put up a Hard run as soon as I can.  I really appreciate the responses you've given me and will not try to respond to them in this short post (I've been busy lately).

Re: Let's 1CC PCB Lunatic!
« Reply #35 on: June 04, 2010, 02:07:18 AM »
Hard run here.  "Cleared: N" is a lie because I am not used to clearing things :p

Here's another, slightly less cowardly Lunatic run.  Note that I did these the next time I played after seeing you guys' posts, so this run is not informed by them (I haven't had time to see how people actually deal with the stuff in Stage 4 that I apparently am doing wrong, for instance).

Drake

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Re: Let's 1CC PCB Lunatic!
« Reply #36 on: June 04, 2010, 02:45:52 AM »
Well, at least you don't suck. Your playing in the Hard mode run convinces me that you just aren't quite accustomed to Lunatic yet. All I can really recommend is watch some replays and take our advice to learn how to clear certain patterns, and to practice more.

A Colorful Calculating Creative and Cuddly Crafty Callipygous Clever Commander
- original art by Aiけん | ウサホリ -

Re: Let's 1CC PCB Lunatic!
« Reply #37 on: June 04, 2010, 05:11:09 PM »
Quote
Let's 1CC PCB Lunatic!

Let's not.

If I didn't have the ol' "Die right before something happens" thing happen to me twice I probably could have got to Stage 4.  Oh well, such is the life of a Normal-mode player trying Lunatic~

Re: Let's 1CC PCB Lunatic!
« Reply #38 on: June 05, 2010, 02:36:37 AM »
Let's not.

If I didn't have the ol' "Die right before something happens" thing happen to me twice I probably could have got to Stage 4.  Oh well, such is the life of a Normal-mode player trying Lunatic~

don't feel bad, I still die before Stage 4 like 1/4 of the time :V

Anyway, Heartbeam, you were right.  Of course I'm getting better--I was just furious at the game for letting me "succeed" to that degree with a session that I saw as disastrous.  This game really does throw extends at me, and, well, I was wondering--what's the point of getting better, when I can just bomb everything and get to the end of the game?  But of course I'm exaggerating--in that post, I ignored everything I did in the coward's run which I considered easy.  Which, of course, is a lot different from the stuff I considered easy on my first attempt.

I just watched a Lunatic playthrough of stage 4 and wow, it turns out I didn't fully understand the level!  When I was playing Normal, the shot done by the giant black things if you don't kill them was fast and practically undodgeable, so I just assumed it was still like that.  But of course what was impossible then is easy now, and the "penalty shots" don't seem to have changed much.  So I can just skip the tough parts of that nature (the last wave before Lily White and the purple shots -> aimed shots combo after her).  Also Lyrica is ridiculously simple.  I could have sworn that I knew "Spirit Performance" was easy, but obviously that piece of knowledge never made it to the "maybe you shouldn't fight Merlin" part of my brain.

Honestly, I've been putting off practicing Stage 4 because IMO it's the worst (in the sense of the worst designed) stage in the game, due to being long and repetitive.  I guess I've been paying for that!

Oh, yes, I have one more thing to say:

You were right.  It was worth it.

Heartbeam

Re: Let's 1CC PCB Lunatic!
« Reply #39 on: June 05, 2010, 10:59:39 PM »
Congratulations on reaching this milestone!  Some nice survival time on stage three and the post-Lily White spam.  Great job for keeping your cool against Components of Konpaku and Sumizome Perfect Blossom as well.  Surprising development for stage six, and I can only imagine what went through your mind to the very end.

Drake

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Re: Let's 1CC PCB Lunatic!
« Reply #40 on: June 06, 2010, 01:48:44 AM »
Quote
I can only imagine what went through your mind to the very end.
guitar solo guitar solo guitar solo flfblfblflflflbf cherry everywhere guitar solo reimu dancing

gj

A Colorful Calculating Creative and Cuddly Crafty Callipygous Clever Commander
- original art by Aiけん | ウサホリ -

Treasurance

  • Now with 100% more Ban'd!
Re: Let's 1CC PCB Lunatic!
« Reply #41 on: June 06, 2010, 06:39:41 AM »
Oh well. I think I should start attempting this too. I have tried Lunatic once...got to Yuyuko. Don't remember which card I continued on. So, a 1CC shouldn't be too hard...?

Re: Let's 1CC PCB Lunatic!
« Reply #42 on: June 30, 2010, 04:17:26 AM »
I think a postmortem is in order, don't you?

First of all, I would like to thank all of you who gave me advice here.  I'd like to thank Heartbeam most of all for encouraging me when I felt down about being able to bombspam through PCB; your advice made me feel much better each time I read it, and though the 1cc proved to be only a short way away, I still think I would not have made it without this.  (Thanks for the Stage 5 breakdown, too!)  Thanks also to Drake for your thoughtful response to my whining (eventually,) and thanks to everyone else, too!

As a Hard-level player, it is very doable to clear PCB Lunatic!  Pretty much my only Touhou experience is in this game, so I wasn't a particularly impressive Hard player either when I started, but I made it through here alright.  Perfect Cherry Blossom gives many extends; this, the border system, and Reimu's generous death-bombing combine to make it a gentle introduction.  I am sure that Lunatic in many other games is considerably harder to clear.

Looking at my record of deaths, it appears that I got better much more quickly after I began to clear Stage 4, but that is misleading.  It isn't that I improved more quickly, but just that I put less of my time into full runs.



Most of my practice runs were of Stage 3 primarily because "it's just Stage 3, it's no big deal, you should be able to do this without bombing often."  It took 30 runs to disabuse me of this notion.  The worst part is that I didn't even improve that much---I still can't do any of her harder noncards or any non-Maiden spellcards consistently.  (Ridiculing "Spring Kyoto Dolls" here seems to have jinxed it, so I can't even do that.)  In contrast, I'm much better at Yuyuko's stage than I was pre-practicing, though I'm still too damn lazy to learn Ageless Obsession.

Man, that "coward's run" post was pretty whiny :> In fairness, I wouldn't have made a post like that publicly without a topic like this (in which I felt obligated to record anything I felt strongly,) but the feelings are certainly the feelings I had at the time.  PCB throws so many resources at me that it's easy to feel like I'm getting better at Touhou, the Resource Management Game, but not Touhou, the Shooting Game.  It's easy to forget all the Shooting Game stuff at which I have also improved!

and as for what went through my mind at the end, it was mainly fuck fuck fuck fuuuuuuck come on come on if I can just-NO-still have a few other chances and .......... i think it's done ........... stare blankly at ending score screen for a minute

after that came the guitar solo