Author Topic: Subterranean Animism  (Read 4033 times)

Phantasmal

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Subterranean Animism
« on: March 16, 2015, 08:48:13 PM »
I heard SA was one of the hardest, but I was feeling like a pro after beating my first Extra Stage boss, so I just jumped right into it. I was absolutely destroyed. :ohdear:
So basically, I need guidance. I need to know exactly how grazing and the communication meter affect anything, which character and partner are best to start with, and how difficult you guys see it in comparison to others.
I usually start with MarisaA, btw. :derp:

Failure McFailFace

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Re: Subterranean Animism
« Reply #1 on: March 16, 2015, 11:13:44 PM »
MarisaA in this game isn't particular great IMO. You have to stay unfocused in order to have any sort of good power. I recommend ReimuA/B, or MarisaC.


ReimuA: A high power straight-forward type. It's the Needles Reimu of this game. It's great for streaming, as pressing only left or right at the edge of the screen will teleport you to the other side (i.e. right on the right edge will teleport you to the left, and vise versa). The bomb is rather powerful and clears the screen.

ReimuB: Less powerful, but piercing and homing. If you release all the buttons, you will collect all items on the screen, including life fragments. The bomb converts bullets to your homing shots, which will then hit anything on screen.

ReimuC: A shot that shoots the opposite way of where you're going. The bomb is simply a circle around you, nothing more. If you don't shoot and focus, you move ridiculously fast.

MarisaA: A shot that is better unfocused than focused. It gets wider when focused. The bomb is a shot laser from a doll. Thing is, you can hold up to 8 bombs at a time, instead of 4.

MarisaB: Versatile shot. Pressing focus and shot at the same time will change the option firing direction. By default, it starts out in the focused Fire (red). Then it cycles through spread Water (blue), angled Wood (green), sideways Metal (yellow), and backwards Earth (brown). The bomb spawns 5 circles around you, with the most damage being in the center of all five circles.

MarisaC: A high-power, missile-type shot. The bomb is like DDC's SakuyaA. Same mechanics, get hit leads to screen clear, etc., and you get half your bomb back (0.50 Power).


As for the communication meter, it get's a better signal as you graze more bullets. The meter goes down once you stop grazing.
When the meter is full, any items on the screen will get collected. Going to the top of the screen will fill up the communication meter, giving the same auto-collect as the other Touhou games.

Points are calculated by this: ([base point value] + [green point value]) * ([communication meter fullness in %] * (graze / 100))
1cc Easy: DDC (all) | 1cc Normal: UFO (SanA autobomb),  DDC (ReiA, SakA) , LoLK (Sanae PD)| EX clears: DDC (MarB Ultra) | Puzzle Games: StB: 10-X, DS: Hatate unlock, ISC: All clear

Phantasmal

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Re: Subterranean Animism
« Reply #2 on: March 16, 2015, 11:28:49 PM »
Thanks a lot! I'll just have to try different characters, then.  I looked through your siggy, and I saw that in UFO you had Sanae with autobomb. I've never heard the term autobomb before, does it bomb right when you're about to get hit, or is it kind of like IN? So far, it's just these 2 that I'm really struggling with. SA and UFO.

Re: Subterranean Animism
« Reply #3 on: March 16, 2015, 11:42:31 PM »
Thanks a lot! I'll just have to try different characters, then.  I looked through your siggy, and I saw that in UFO you had Sanae with autobomb. I've never heard the term autobomb before, does it bomb right when you're about to get hit, or is it kind of like IN? So far, it's just these 2 that I'm really struggling with. SA and UFO.
Autobomb is a mod/cheat which makes you automatically bomb when hit with a bullet, instead of losing a life.
ReimuA is the easiest shottype for players new to SA or looking for a 1CC, but free to try the other shottypes in case any of them strike your fancy.
Playing Touhou since 18 March 2012. Playing video games since 19XX.
Normal 1CC: EoSD, PCB, IN, PoFV, MoF, SA, UFO, TD, DDC, HSiFS, CtC.
Extra 1CC: EoSD, PCB+Phantasm, IN, PoFV (K&S), MoF, SA, TD, HSiFS, CtC+Phantasm.
Hard 1CC: EoSD, PCB, IN, MoF, TD, CtC.
Lunatic 1CC: EoSD

Karisa

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Re: Subterranean Animism
« Reply #4 on: March 17, 2015, 12:13:16 AM »
I'd like to clarify a few details about the mechanics.
MarisaC: A high-power, missile-type shot. The bomb is like DDC's SakuyaA. Same mechanics, get hit leads to screen clear, etc., and you get half your bomb back (0.50 Power).
The bombs aren't quite the same. DDC SakuyaA's clears bullets twice, making it quite useful: a partial screen clear when you activate the bomb, and a full screen clear if you get hit (or you get 3/8 of a bomb back if you don't get hit). SA MarisaC's bomb only clears bullets if you get hit, so it's weaker. It's more like an anytime PCB border that happens to recover some power if you don't actually get hit when you thought you would.

Points are calculated by this: ([base point value] + [green point value]) * ([communication meter fullness in %] * (graze / 100))
Actually no. The graze multiplier ranges from (graze/10000) to (1 + graze/10000) depending on communication gauge, so if you have 12000 graze it'd range from 1.20 to 2.20. But point item value should be irrelevant if you're initially learning the game; score won't give you lives.


Some other things to keep in mind about SA mechanics, anyway:

- SA has among the densest patterns in the series, so the difference in hitbox size between Reimu and Marisa is more relevant than usual. That plus high power give ReimuA a notable survival advantage over pretty much any other shot (with the possible exception of ReimuC, who has a weak shot but a powerful bomb that can skip patterns if you use it on top of a boss).

- ReimuB's shot is only slightly homing, more like a forward-focus shot that happens to curve a bit. SA basically has no homing shots-- it's what originally taught me how to play with non-homing characters back when I was first learning.

- MarisaA does get 8 bombs, but in exchange they have a short invincibility time, and don't deal significant damage unless placed directly in front of a boss. Also she uses power items less efficiently:
   -- MarisaA needs 12 power items to gain 1.00 power while other shot types need 20 (meaning it takes her 96 power items instead of 80 to reach full power)
   -- MarisaA still only gains 2-3 power back from dying at no power (well, the standard formula: 2 at 3+ lives remaining, 3 at 1-2 lives remaining, full at no lives remaining) instead of 4-6 as you might expect
Fun shot if you're looking for something unconventional, but I wouldn't recommend her for survival.

- Timing out a boss pattern will prevent it from dropping a life part, unless it's a survival spell. (Dying on a pattern prevents the life part from appearing too, but it's clearly not worth suiciding pre-boss just to get 1/5 more of a life from the boss. You'll get a total of 40 life parts even if you die to 10 different boss patterns, as long as you don't time out anything.)

- Due to the power system, you can plan to bomb at certain parts of the game (especially during stage portions or midbosses) and still reach full power afterward, meaning you wouldn't use up any total resources.

SA is frequently considered the most difficult game on Normal, by the way.
« Last Edit: March 17, 2015, 12:15:32 AM by Karisa »

Re: Subterranean Animism
« Reply #5 on: March 17, 2015, 12:28:23 AM »
- Timing out a boss pattern will prevent it from dropping a life part, unless it's a survival spell. (Dying on a pattern prevents the life part from appearing too, but it's clearly not worth suiciding pre-boss just to get 1/5 more of a life from the boss. You'll get a total of 40 life parts even if you die to 10 different boss patterns, as long as you don't time out anything.)

Do you mean spell cards or non-spells? I swear I've gotten life pieces even after being hit by either phase.

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Re: Subterranean Animism
« Reply #6 on: March 17, 2015, 12:38:44 AM »
You do not get a life piece if you die on any boss pattern. However, because of the delay between clearing a pattern, the bullets clearing, and the next pattern counting down, you can clear a pattern and spawn a life piece, get hit and die, and respawn on the next pattern without failing it.

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Phantasmal

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Re: Subterranean Animism
« Reply #7 on: March 17, 2015, 01:08:53 AM »
- Timing out a boss pattern will prevent it from dropping a life part, unless it's a survival spell. (Dying on a pattern prevents the life part from appearing too, but it's clearly not worth suiciding pre-boss just to get 1/5 more of a life from the boss. You'll get a total of 40 life parts even if you die to 10 different boss patterns, as long as you don't time out anything.)

Are there even any survival spells in SA? I don't remember seeing any, and I've gotten up to Utusho. (With continues,)

Re: Subterranean Animism
« Reply #8 on: March 17, 2015, 01:11:44 AM »
Are there even any survival spells in SA? I don't remember seeing any, and I've gotten up to Utusho. (With continues,)

There's 2 in the extra, though honestly I didn't know you could die on those and still get a life piece either. Is that true for both of them, or just "Philosophy of the Hated Person"?

Sorry, misread that.
« Last Edit: March 17, 2015, 01:15:23 AM by TresserT »
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I've cleared every touhou game on Lunatic, and beaten every extra except SoEW.
NMNB: MoF Hard, SA Extra, UFO Extra

Karisa

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Re: Subterranean Animism
« Reply #9 on: March 17, 2015, 02:35:15 AM »
Are there even any survival spells in SA? I don't remember seeing any, and I've gotten up to Utusho. (With continues,)
For reference-- in every Windows Touhou Extra stage (including PCB Phantasm and GFW), the 9th spell of the boss is always a survival spell, though some games don't have any in the main game. A lot of Touhou-styled danmaku fangames follow this tradition too.

SA Extra has two survival spells, Koishi's 5th and 9th.

Technically the 6th (Subconscious "Rorshach in Danmaku") was also set to be a survival spell, possibly by mistake (you get the spell bonus but lose the point items and life part if you time that one out). Yay for semi-relevant Touhou trivia?
« Last Edit: March 17, 2015, 02:36:56 AM by Karisa »

Re: Subterranean Animism
« Reply #10 on: March 17, 2015, 02:53:29 AM »
You do not get a life piece if you die on any boss pattern. However, because of the delay between clearing a pattern, the bullets clearing, and the next pattern counting down, you can clear a pattern and spawn a life piece, get hit and die, and respawn on the next pattern without failing it.
A note on this, when you die as a pattern clears, the game actually counts the miss on the next pattern, meaning that even you don't fail the pattern, you don't get a life piece from it.

Things I've done (and maybe will improve):
SA L6MNB | SA Lunatic 3b Scorerun | MoF LNB | PCB LNB |DDC LNB

Re: Subterranean Animism
« Reply #11 on: March 17, 2015, 03:10:32 AM »
You do not get a life piece if you die on any boss pattern. However, because of the delay between clearing a pattern, the bullets clearing, and the next pattern counting down, you can clear a pattern and spawn a life piece, get hit and die, and respawn on the next pattern without failing it.

I was mis-remembering, sorry. It was when I bombed (not "by dying") halfway through some spells that I still got life pieces.

Karisa

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Re: Subterranean Animism
« Reply #12 on: March 17, 2015, 03:25:03 AM »
I was mis-remembering, sorry. It was when I bombed (not "by dying") halfway through some spells that I still got life pieces.
Yes, bombing won't affect the life parts in SA; you can bomb as many times as you want.

DDC's life/bomb parts only appear if you don't die or bomb, though (the ones from boss phases directly that is; the ones from auto-collecting items still appear as long as you auto-collect).