Gensokyans Who Work

[Tengukami]

Ammy's pretty on-the-mark with the "grass is greener" talk.

I think this whole thread can be addressed with this:
http://en.touhouwiki.net/wiki/Symposium_of_Post-mysticism/Part_2

Most of this section of the book deals with this subject; I'd say it addresses it pretty thoroughly, although indirectly, so I would suggest to read this part of the book carefully with the topic of "youkai working and why they work" in mind. I think it's intrinsically connected to how people in the outside world think, how humans act in general (why do humans work), and the existence of youkai altogether.

Wow. I haven't even finished reading this, but I second your recommendation to read this with "youkai and how they view work" in mind. Kanako here sounds a lot like a Syndicalist. This is some pretty eye-opening stuff.

[Clarste]

Wow. I haven't even finished reading this, but I second your recommendation to read this with "youkai and how they view work" in mind. Kanako here sounds a lot like a Syndicalist. This is some pretty eye-opening stuff.

SoPM's symposium section is indeed eye-opening (actually I'm surprised that anyone who cares at all about this sort of world-building wouldn't have read it already), but I think it's also important to remember that Kanako and Byakuren can't exactly speak for all youkai. I casually mentioned this earlier, but those two are very spiritual and educated, while most youkai are more like Mystia and Rumia who don't even know what they are. So while maybe we can learn about Gensokyo metaphysics, we can't just take their word on what youkai are actually thinking.

[Tengukami]

I think it's a given that they're speaking for themselves, including the characters who show agreement. Drake underlines what was speculated earlier; that work in Gensokyo has this "grass is greener" allure but, as Kilga shows with Mystia, their understanding of the concept is mixed with their own predilections and ideas. This has some pretty fun results - a lot of which were mentioned earlier - but there's also an interesting excitement about doing technology as capably as the outside world.

[Acerodon]

From what I have read in this topic, and from what I've read so far of Symposium (by the way, thank you for posting that, Drake. I'm very new to Touhou and this is an interesting read) could the likes of the Kappa working to develop technology and Mystia running a food cart be the side effect of Youkai ultimately losing over the humans? As in, they're slowly losing their ways and are being integrated into human society. You have Youkai living among the humans, and like Clarste said most of them are like Mystia and Rumia, they don't understand their purpose as Youkai.

[Phoenix-P]

hmm there are also the celestials, those people are good in building construction, even if they make the buildings  suitable for them, like what happened to reimu's shrine in SWR. they might not work at heaven but they could be employed in making temples and stuff like that, same as the spiders.
tengus are also good at construction, and if their society was before the hakurei border, their buildings could be very advanced. kappa's could have very technological areas in their hideout too

[cb5]

I'd have to say it's a part of society.  In order for a society to work there has to be a means of trading goods.  To use a analogy think of it as like star trek.  Even though they don't need to work they still work cause doing nothing forever would be boring.

[Kwak]

It seems to me like the working youkai tend to do so as a means of self-expression more than anything else.

Mystia's lamprey cart, for example, came about as a way of driving the yakitori stands out of business to save birds. It's also a more acceptable way of using her night-blindness ability on victims without getting exterminated on the spot, because hey, it's a business. I don't imagine that the monetary aspect is really all that important to Mystia, but that instead she's fulfilling her role as a sparrow (looking out for other birds) and as a youkai (screwing people over with supernatural powers). She just happens to do so in the form of a "job", but not for the typical reasons.

Same with Rinnosuke, who's much more of a collector than a shopkeeper, because Kourindou is more of a way for him to use his identification ability. He's kind of ashamed of this, though, and seems to really want more customers. I take that as his human half and youkai half in conflict.

I'm not as familiar with the kappa and tengu, but their societies (while stated to be imitating humans) seem extremely specialized and geared towards ...just being kappa and tengu. In WaHH we see that the Kappa aren't capable of large-scale constructions like Kanako's dam because they're mainly motivated by individual curiosity.

So, basically, my theory is that youkai working (human influence aside) is mainly coincidental and a result of their identity and abilities happening to be "marketable".

[Fonzi]

I'm srurprised nobody mentioned Mokou's yakitori stand. Alice, the Prismrivers and Choujuu Gigaku being occasional performers and Kogasa's silly attempts to babysit children.

[cb5]

You know I thought of something.  Even though they don't necessarily need to work they still need basic necessities like clothes and such.  While yes you can abuse magic to build stuff, that doesn't necessarily mean everything can be made through magic by everyone.  Like I don't think every individual in gensokyo has the ability to make a house or such.

[SIRookie]

Plus there's bound to be some "businesses" who work repairs for all the stuff that would get damaged by stray danmaku fire.

Also, what if the "Lord" in "Lord Tenma" was nothing more than a title? Maybe the tengu do have a form of democracy after all?

[Tengukami]

Also, what if the "Lord" in "Lord Tenma" was nothing more than a title? Maybe the tengu do have a form of democracy after all?

Highly unlikely, though not impossible. The historical references ZUN included in Tenma's associations suggest an autocratic, possibly militaristic leader, on top of a top-down hierarchy with at least managers beneath him/her and then the rest of the tengu. This does not, though, preclude a democratic federation - there could very well be elections, economic parity and fair trials. There's just no evidence that they exist.

[SIRookie]

"Democracy" was the wrong word choice. What I meant is that it might be something like the role the Queen has in the UK.
(And yes I do realize there is a difference between democracy and a monarchy)

[Tengukami]

Ah, so you mean a largely ceremonial head of state? We're still seeing the same thing: highly unlikely based available evidence (or lack thereof), but not outside all possible options. Just doesn't have data backing it up. But it's a fun thought!

[SIRookie]

Getting back on topic, I assume there would be farmers, hunters, and butchers as well. If Minoriko is the goddess of good harvest (as well as running her own sweet potato stand according to the wiki), then there must be somebody to be raising the crops in the first place, right? Farmers could also raise whatever livestock (cows, chickens) to be sold as well.

Hunters might also be a thing out of either hobby or necessity because there might be some animals that haven't been raised as livestock (deer, wild rabbits). Of course "hunter" could also be used as "youkai hunter". Even though Reimu, Marisa, and Company are the primary hunters, who's to say there aren't some people doing their job while the main characters are off solving incidents?

Clothing would also need to be worked on, from growing the material (wool, cotton) to turning it into cloth

Of course if there's someone to supply the materials, there must be someone to make it usable. Thus, butchers.

Plus whatever scraps from the butchers could potentially be used as bribes against the wolf tengu.

You might also need some form of police and government to maintain the peace and regulate prices

[Tengukami]

Who needs cops when you have danmaku duels and the Spell Card Rules?

I'm sure there's a lot of working going on, but I think Gensokyo is a loosely controlle feudal state at most, and often times closer to anarchism than anything else.

[Fonzi]

Who needs cops when you have danmaku duels and the Spell Card Rules?

Kotohime would like to have a word with you.

[SIRookie]

I mean police as in protecting humans from themselves. Thievery and all that. I don't think danmaku is something every human is capable of.

[Tengukami]

Pretend cops don't count, but Koto is a hilarious example of a Gensokyan's take on being a cop. Just call yourself one and bam!

And you raise a good point, Rookie. There is a dearth of info on human daily life. More questions than answers, as per ZUN.

[Fonzi]

Throw in a self-appointed firefighter and Gensokyo will have all emergency services covered.
As for the farmers, hunters, butchers, etc. I thought this thread was excluding the jobs of humans living in the village, but if not, there is one rather obscure character that only got mentioned in PMiSS in Mystia's eyewitness reports - Boozer Rokusuke. Of course, brewing and serving alcoholic beverages has to be quite the profitable business in Gensokyo.
The kappa and tengu are likely not the only kinds of youkai that live (and presumably work in communities). I'm talking about Ancient City and its population of oni. I'm also not sure if anyone mentioned Komachi's work. Though in her case, she probably didn't have much of a choice and the possibility for career growth in her line of work is nigh nonexistent. Even her superior was more or less "born" to be a judge.

[Sagus]

Actually I'm pretty sure the kappa, the tengu and the oni are the only youkai with organized societies; Akyuu notes that youkai are generally very self-centered, and youkai organizations (like the SDM) are very unusual.

And of those first three, claiming that the kappa have a "society" is probably kind of a stretch; as we saw in WaHH, they are utterly incapable of doing any large project together.

[Fonzi]

So am I, but I noticed that only the kappa and tengu were mentioned previously, so I also added the oni.

EDIT: But even that might not be the definite number of youkai communities. The youkai rabbits in Eientei seem like one, with Tewi as thier leader and all. When there's a hierarchy, there's also a community. Another, albeit tiny example are the three fairies of light living together.

Having a society and being able to cooperate on large-scale construction projects are two very different things. As long as we know that the kappa live in a village, they live in a society by a definition.

[Sagus]

Eh, would you call a bunch of birds living in the same tree a "society"? I think that's pretty much the kappa village is; a nice ravine where a number of kappa decided to settle down.

Then again I guess there's no real evidence for this.

[Fonzi]

If the birds in the same tree were all the same kind, then yes, I would.  :V  Though your comparison seems like an exaggeration, because the kappa do work and produce goods (and even have a bazaar) for their own needs as well as for their neighbors, the tengu. Just living together makes them a strange example among the various kinds of youkai, so I see no reason to call their way of life as "randomly decided to settle on one ravine and build houses next to each other".

[cb5]

I think that's pretty much the kappa village is; a nice ravine where a number of kappa decided to settle down.

Then again I guess there's no real evidence for this.

A society in essence is just a group of people living in a community.  It's less of a nationwide society like we're used to and more of a micro society like a small town community.

[Phoenix-P]

i think they are a part of their own (little?)society. maybe they have their own rules too or a kappa leader, like village elders. being partners with the tengu could have helped them having a  better system, being the tengu more advanced