Maidens of the Kaleidoscope
~Beyond the Border~ => Rumia's Party Games => Mystia's Stored Games => Topic started by: Pesco on November 09, 2010, 05:03:14 PM
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Yo dawg, we heard yo like mafia so we put mafia in your mafia. You dogs are out to find those cats who wannna be Da Dawgs like you dawgs.
Rules
1. This is a game. Don't be a poes. I'll Lynch you out of my house if you are being an ass.
2. Mark ##Votes and mark ##Unvotes in separate paragraphs and line spaced on their own. If I can't tell it from normal text on my phone, it's not getting counted.
3. I don't care if you lurk, but tell me beforehand. If I prod you and you don't post by the next day, you get modkilled unless you provide your own replacement.
4. Day 1 is 48 hours from when I state the clock starts running. The game can begin once at least 8 people have confirmed. Any time between the confirmations and my clock start is extra game time.
5. Subsequent days are 72 hours each. LyLo has no limit as long as the activity rate is satisfactory. Nights last 24 hours.
6. Once you die, shut up. No dying wails.
7. If I don't say you can do something in your role PM, you can't do it.
8. I do stuff in this color. Do not steal
9. If I don't get a night action, none will be taken. Scum are of course required to specify who is doing the Night Kill.
10. Rules may be added if necessary
Living the dog's life
5 Affinity
6 FFMaster
7 reVelske
In the doghouse
0 Momiji - Bad Dog - Put down on N0
1 Huhwhat - Fat Dog - Choked on a bone N1
8 Roukan - Toilet Cat - Lynched Day 2
9 Doll - Jailer Dog - Clawed to shreds N2
2 Bardiche - Old Dog - Lived for too long and passed away N3
4 PX - Mangy Dog - Lynched Day 4
3 NeoSerela - Missing Dog - Permanently missing from N4
Role PMs going out. You may confirm as you get them.
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6x + 14 = 31 - 4x
10x + 14 = 31
10x = 17
x = 1,7
Confirmed.
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*pees under the owner's desk*
*and confirm*
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Urge to spend the entire game speaking in a Scooby Doo accent rising.
Ronfirmed, Resco.
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Confirmed.
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Profirmed.
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Confirmed here.
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Confirmed.
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demrifnoc
/confirmed
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48 hours for Day 1 begins now.
Nobody being voted
Everyone is not voting.
9 alive, 5 votes to lynch.
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My very first Mafia game, it sure is nice......
*Waits for others*
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"it sure is nice"? Huh? What? Nothing happened yet, how is it nice?
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It's nice because it's my first game.
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This is a war! A battle between good and evil! A crusade against the filth of the world! This will be a story of sacrifice and betrayal, and of good people dying in stupid, pointless ways. "Nice" is hardly a word to describe this...
EDIT: Oh crud, editing timestamp, guess I can't get away with quick little grammar fixes :V
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I also find war somewhat nice *shrug*
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This is a war! A battle between good and evil! A crusade against the filth of the world! This will be a story of sacrifice and betrayal, and of good people dying in stupid, pointless ways. "Nice" is hardly a word to describe this...
EDIT: Oh crud, editing timestamp, guess I can't get away with quick little grammar fixes :V
Don't
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##Vote: Doll (Because your name keeps changing all over the place gdit)
Votes plz
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War is "nice"? Blasphemy!
#Vote: Doll
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##Vote PX
Phoenixes don't belong in a dog game.
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Dogs don't do math. They dig the x.
##Vote: Bardiche
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You're still a bastard mod
##Vote: Serela
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##Vote: Roukanke
Hey, It's been weeks since I changed it.
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You're still a bastard mod
##Vote: Serela
You could have done this last game, y'know >:
##Vote:PX
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##Vote: Doll
Jokevote phase ends now. Let's get Day1 over with and lynch Doll.
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##Vote: Doll
Jokevote phase ends now. Let's get Day1 over with and lynch Doll.
Why Doll of all people?
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Isn't it obvious? Accrued two votes first. Whether it's PX or Doll doesn't matter. I can get on board with lynching PX instead if you'd like. It makes no difference to me, both are equally likely to be scum at this point.
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"hi lets vote whoever has the most votes just because"
Um. I can see it as a way of getting out of RVS I guess, but that just looks really... wrong to me.
##Unvote:PX
##Vote:Bardiche
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Tell me your great method of getting out of RVS, then. If you vote me for attempting to move out of RVS, obviously you must have a better alternative to say this one is "wrong".
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Isn't it obvious? Accrued two votes first. Whether it's PX or Doll doesn't matter. I can get on board with lynching PX instead if you'd like. It makes no difference to me, both are equally likely to be scum at this point.
That's kinda a lousy reason to vote for me. Especially one or both of those two could be scum.
##Unvote
##Vote: Bardiche
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Tell me your great method of getting out of RVS, then. If you vote me for attempting to move out of RVS, obviously you must have a better alternative to say this one is "wrong".
MotK has gotten out of RVS countless times before without doing something ridiculous like "Okay now lets all just vote this person because they have the most votes so far."
Then, again, RVS often seems to end by an argument over someone trying something stupid, which is exactly what seems to be happening now... so, TECHNICALLY you've successfully begun the end of RVS (If you planned this, thumbs up, but somehow I feel you didn't :P), but either way that method is pretty terrible IMO. The only discussion it can really start (From what I see, at least) is discussion against it, as I've said, but doing something purely because people will chase you for it is silly unless the RVS is taking forever.
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Sorry if this question seems silly, but what's RVS?
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Sorry if this question seems silly, but what's RVS?
Random Vote Shit/Session/Stage or whathaveyou.
It's also usually Really Very Stupid, but there's no way to avoid that, so we just kind of suffer through it each game and move on.
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I make it a principal point to not participate in RVS. It's a waste of time, we only have 48 hours and people are prone to lurk.
I was prepared for criticism the moment I made my intentions known. Serela, this is how you end jokevote phase. We now have observable arguments, at least from you and Doll, to work with.
To summarise: you think my method is bad, but don't present another method other than "wait for someone to do something stupid" - taking a passive approach to scumhunting, or a passive approach to PREPARATIONS to scumhunting doesn't jive with what I feel is proper town conduct.
Doll on the other hand thinks it's stupid that I think there could be scum among people Not Me, but also offers no discernable reason for me to take any action OTHER than my present one.
It's easier to criticise me for attempting to end jokevote stage than attempting to end it yourself. At present I find Serela's "I find your active method bad" to imply "I'd rather passively wait for someone ELSE to do something stupid and we get srs bsns", and that ends in No Happy Feelings for me.
##Unvote
##Vote: NeoSerela
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The reason I place SErela above Doll here is because one actually knows what RVS is. Doll can be excused for not knowing how to end it, but Serela is a different story. Best reason on the board so far for a vote.
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Oh, that was the reason..
Well, if you wanna get it over with, I guess I'll stay with my vote.
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Cool, now that RVS is over, we can have some real game play.
##Unvote
Really, there's nothing to go on for now.
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Also, if you're going to take shots on me for this, what's going on is not really an argument. I'm just waiting for something to happen now.
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I would like to see Serela explain what exactly he found bad about Bardiche's method of ending the RVS, especially since he failed to provide any sort of alternative. There does not seem to be any explanation for Serea's vote on Bardiche beyond "his actions just seem wrong". What exactly is so wrong about them, then?
PX looks worse to me, however, what with the blatant contradiction over his recent two posts. He acts as if he believes we have left the RVS, yet claims what's going on is not really an argument as an excuse not to contribute to it. There should at least be enough to go on from the squabble between Bardiche and Serela to say something about it, and yet he's sitting back and expecting us to do the work. Ergo, he is cheerleading without make himself useful.
##Vote PX
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I would like to see Serela explain what exactly he found bad about Bardiche's method of ending the RVS, especially since he failed to provide any sort of alternative.
"hi everyone vote this person just because they have the most votes on them so far so we can end rvs"
...do I REALLY need to explain how it's possible to find something wrong with that? Other then starting an argument against it (Which I've already voiced my opinion on doing something just to make people argue it), how would that even advance things if people did it? If they did, all you did is manage to make people randomvote one specific person. If someone actually hammered them off of that (And you did state an intention to lynch although I'm sure you wouldn't expect so to happen), all we'd have established is that they're an idiot or REALLY wanted to knock some friggin sense into everyone else.
tl;dr I don't really see it as all that helpful. You even said you're one to stay out of rvs stupidity, yet you've obviously contributed your own share of it this game, instead of just randomvoting and waiting for it to end.
As for an alternative... it's not like there's some textbook specific way to get out of RVS. Mafia isn't some play where everything is planned out. At some point people start making actual cases (albeit usually weak at first, but certainly better then "Just vote this person.")
PX looks worse to me, however, what with the blatant contradiction over his recent two posts. He acts as if he believes we have left the RVS, yet claims what's going on is not really an argument as an excuse not to contribute to it. There should at least be enough to go on from the squabble between Bardiche and Serela to say something about it, and yet he's sitting back and expecting us to do the work. Ergo, he is cheerleading without make himself useful.
##Vote PX
PX is being a bit lazy IMO, yeah, but I think we've already established he's nibby (Last game where the "major lurkscum vibe" turned out to just be newbie lol), so I don't think being lazy ED1 (even if not still RVS) is particularly horrible, especially considering god why would scum really unvote and blatantly sit around doing nothing, while pretty much announcing it.
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tl;dr I don't really see it as all that helpful. You even said you're one to stay out of rvs stupidity, yet you've obviously contributed your own share of it this game, instead of just randomvoting and waiting for it to end.
Wait where did I say that and what did I contribute? ??? I am massively confused here. But even if that did apply to me, just randomvoting and waiting for the RVS would show apathy and not actually get anything done. If everyone took that stance, we would never leave RVS. Is that what you are trying to promote?
As for Bardiche, I personally gathered that his vote was meant facetiously in an attempt to goad somebody into responding seriously and that he was not actually promoting a lynch on PX or Doll, so I don't see reason to actually lynch him over it.
PX is being a bit lazy IMO, yeah, but I think we've already established he's nibby (Last game where the "major lurkscum vibe" turned out to just be newbie lol), so I don't think being lazy ED1 (even if not still RVS) is particularly horrible, especially considering god why would scum really unvote and blatantly sit around doing nothing, while pretty much announcing it.
Too scummy to be scum is a terrible argument. He's not just being lazy, he's being lazy while cheerleading everything else on (see "Cool, now that RVS is over, we can have some real game play.").
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Wait where did I say that and what did I contribute?
Nooo, that was towards Bard.
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Bard gets points for producing the vote that moves us out of RVS. Neo seems to not be appreciating (or caring, if he knows and is acting it) the fact that early wagons - and the way people jump on them/react to them - are the best way to generate discussion. Protip, Neo - if no-one does something risky and gives people a reason to make a case, we'd never get out of RVS.
##Unvote, Vote: Neo
PX, please stop spectating and start producing. Just because you have a reputation as lurker/derp!Town does not give you a free ticket to be lurker/derp again.
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@Serela: I can address your concerns quite easily.
If people just voted it, someone would eventually call someone out on it. If someone hammered, we know who we'd be lynching D2. Townies don't quicklynch on D1.
I disagree about contributing to RVS. I have neatly ended it now. We are now at a serious stage of the game. You said yourself that ending RVS took an act of stupidity for others to jump on. Now you accuse me of being stupid and that that is somehow a bad thing. Why do you propose I maintained status quo and joined in RVS? What added value would that have had to the game?
Do you have anything to add right now beside "I disagree with the case on PX because WIFOM" and "I disagree with Bardiche's methods because" while not providing a shred of initiative yourself?
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Do you have anything to add right now beside "I disagree with the case on PX because WIFOM" and "I disagree with Bardiche's methods because" while not providing a shred of initiative yourself?
To tell the truth, not really. For one thing, no one else has really posted anyway.
It baffles me why I always try to get stuff done ED1 despite the fact that it always goes terribly.
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Well, I can see what Bardiche is saying about RVS being stupid, but it really is the only way to get the ball rolling with these games. Him ending RVS early or later doesn't matter in my opinion, as long as it generates arguments and hence information to use to find scum.
Doll, I have no idea, he/she hasn't posted anything of value, and looks to be generally confused, as PX and I were in our first game here, so I'll reserve judgement for later.
PX is being a bit lazy IMO, yeah, but I think we've already established he's nibby (Last game where the "major lurkscum vibe" turned out to just be newbie lol), so I don't think being lazy ED1 (even if not still RVS) is particularly horrible, especially considering god why would scum really unvote and blatantly sit around doing nothing, while pretty much announcing it.
While I would agree with you there, I think PX has had plenty of time to watch and learn. From the other forum that we are from, he seems to be quick at adapting and learning. He has already participated in 2 games. In the first game, I initially got targetted for doing the same thing he is doing now ie. lurking and not putting up new info. In the second, he was lurking a lot and not participating at the same time, and got targetted for it. I think this time, he is more likely scum, and is trying to lie low, like he did in the first game. Hey, it worked then, why not now?
Neo, I'm leaning towards scum, but I'm not too sure. I don't like the fact that he wants RVS to be longer, even though we only have 48 hours for Day 1(why is this anyway, it was 74 hours from the games I've seen). Feels kind of like reducing our time to think, argue, etc and forcing us to make desperation votes for a bad lynch.
Going to keep my vote on PX for the time being. But I still have my doubts about Neo.
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Okay, now we got something (against me)
Bardiche: Random vote on a wagon, claiming RVS is over.
Isn't it obvious? Accrued two votes first. Whether it's PX or Doll doesn't matter. I can get on board with lynching PX instead if you'd like. It makes no difference to me, both are equally likely to be scum at this point.
I make it a principal point to not participate in RVS. It's a waste of time, we only have 48 hours and people are prone to lurk.
So you're saying you are completely satisfied with a quick D1 lynch? On a noob? Or were you participating in RVS, which you said you don't do. Either way, I was going to say thanks for ending RVS, but the way you did it is just very bad.
huh what:[color] Just waiting for some more stuff. Is that really bad on ED1? Anyways, yeah, I was waiting for people to get something started. Usually because when I open my mouth, something bad happens to me. And I'm not going to decide on whether to vote Bardiche or Neo, I want a base on more than just 2 people.
He acts as if he believes we have left the RVS, yet claims what's going on is not really an argument as an excuse not to contribute to it.
Then does that mean I ended RVS?
NeoSerela: We think too alike. :ohdear:
FFMaster:
Neo, I'm leaning towards scum, but I'm not too sure. I don't like the fact that he wants RVS to be longer, even though we only have 48 hours for Day 1(why is this anyway, it was 74 hours from the games I've seen). Feels kind of like reducing our time to think, argue, etc and forcing us to make desperation votes for a bad lynch.
Misrepping. He was just calling up on Bardiche for ending RVS, and Bardiche's post was just bad. If I were in his shoes, I would have done it too.
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Uh... I failed on the code @ huh what, only the name should be red.
Also, forgot this
##Vote: Bardiche
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Vote Count
Doll: reVelske
PX: FFMaster, huhwhat
Bardiche: Affinity, NeoSerela, Doll, PX
NeoSerela: Bardiche, Roukanken
Bardiche at L-1
9 alive, 5 votes to lynch
25 hours remain
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Just to throw in my 2 cents, entire Day One is RvS to me and the ball will never really start rolling until lives are sacrifice or someone makes an idiotic mistake.
We are now at a serious stage of the game.
ysoserious? :smug:
TAKE IT EASY! :yukkuri:
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Oh, that's L-1?
##Unvote
Affinity, where are you?!
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Rev's refusal to contribute is noted, but given the whole Kefit thing I don't have enough atm to press him. If D2 comes around and he doesn't start producing like NUTS, though...
Neo's 'oh hey I am bad' posts annoy me. PX's chainsaw defense of Neo also annoys me. Not much else to say on the matter right now besides they're both horribad.
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Unfortunately, being new to this forum and have no knowledge of each player's personality, posting mannerism and simply not having enough to make accurate judgment of their characters, it's rather difficult for me to "contribute" on Day One as there is little to work off. And I do very much dislike throwing worthless little accusations around.
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Being new is not an excuse to be a liability to Town. You don't need to know people to form opinions.
@PX: You said earlier "I'm not going to vote Bardiche or Neo, I want a base of more than just two people". And then you vote me. What's up with that? Thinking I actually wanted to lynch Doll is incredibly silly. Statistics are at my side for choosing a random lynch target.
Like NeoSerela, you say my way of ending RVS was bad. Even though we are now doing something actually productive, you find it was a bad way and mimic Serela's "I'd rather be passive and wait for others to do something than take an active role in moving towards a lynch". This permits Scum to monopolise a lynch target and tunnel vision Town into lynching Town on D1.
So far, I find NeoSerela and PX to be most scummy for advocating passiveness on D1, and declaring a way to end the RVS to be "bad" while refusing to offer a passable alternative other than "Hang around and see what happens" - that's not how good townies should act. Town should take an active role in determining a lynch target, and just waiting for someone to do something "stupid" to vote on rather than something "scummy" is no better a strategy than arbitrarily deciding a lynch target and provoking reactions.
I want to hear, from both NeoSerela and PX, the proper way to end RVS without taking a passive role in the game, and while receiving their applause. Time to get out the elbow grease and put in the work, you two - no one already agrees with you about my method being so bad it's scummy, so it's time you actually make that argument stick.
Explain why it is "bad", and how one would do it "the right way".
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What is happening?
##Unvote
All this RVS talk is very very stupid. RVS usually ends because bandwagons are formed and people don't like it and that's that; I don't see how questioning people over RVS and stuff like that would make anyone look more townie or scummy and Bard taking that route makes me feel as if he's pretending to do scumhunting. I don't remember there being a trend where 'being passive at ED1' = scummy, here or anywhere, and I don't see how (so town has... less time to talk about things?) Besides, Serela and PX voting Bardiche doesn't strike me as particularly 'passive' and thus I disagree with Bard trying to brand them as passive. It's quite contradictory and shaped like itself. I'll say that I'm defending their actions pertaining to Bard's accusations as complete null tells (though PX voting Bard suddenly is kinda silly).
Thus, I'm quite wary of Rou and FFMaster hopping on this easy train of thought without much elaboration. Rou stands out as egging other people on without exactly pressing anyone directly (e.g Neo is bad for RVS but I'm not going to ask him anything), and FFMaster does the same contradiction Bardiche did above; how is PX voting Bardiche exactly laying low? Aren't people like reVelske laying lower than him? Of the two, Rou seems far worse and passive, so...
##Vote: Roukanken
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BTW, when does the day end? Pesco said 48 hours on the Day starting post, which means it ends in 14 hours? Just wanted to make sure since the Day Ones of the mafia games I play usually last a week, if not more :V
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BTW, when does the day end? Pesco said 48 hours on the Day starting post, which means it ends in 14 hours? Just wanted to make sure since the Day Ones of the mafia games I play usually last a week, if not more :V
Round about 9AM our time.
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Yes, ~13 hours now.
Now start getting into the game! You and Doll!
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Get into the game? Oh, right, sure, right away, sir.
##UNVOTE
##Vote: PX :smug:
Was that to your satisfaction?
I am as "into the game" as I could possibly let myself be at this stage of it, usually I'd be flaming the living hell out of everyone to get things moving, but Pesco asked me not to and I don't feel comfortable flaming people I hardly know, sooo.... *yawnz*
Oh well, I have no idea what the hell Neo is arguing about, what Bard did seem perfectly pro-town and made good sense, though I'd write it off as Neo being confused.
PX, you on the other hand look rather suspect to me.
1. Erratic voting actions.
2.
So you're saying you are completely satisfied with a quick D1 lynch? On a noob? Or were you participating in RVS, which you said you don't do. Either way, I was going to say thanks for ending RVS, but the way you did it is just very bad.
Sounds like some subtle scum-painting to me, especially when the entire thing was explained through and through between Neo and Bard, yet you STILL need to ask something as silly as this.
3.
And I'm not going to decide on whether to vote Bardiche or Neo, I want a base on more than just 2 people.
Why such a wagon fan? Can't build opinions of your own? :smug:
4.
NeoSerela: We think too alike. :ohdear:
FFMaster:Misrepping. He was just calling up on Bardiche for ending RVS, and Bardiche's post was just bad. If I were in his shoes, I would have done it too.
So you say you are indecisive about which wagon to jump on, yet you show such love for Neo? Logic, it makes none.
If I can't build up a PX wagon, I'm more than happy voting for Neo, whose lynch would yield most information to work off for the next day IMHO.
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Ugh. Pressed Back button. Deleted whole post by accident. Irritated. Headache. Tired. Short version go.
Affinity: Scum like inactivity because it lets them lurk and say 'but there was nothing to talk about!' End of story.
Also, I am not questioning Neo because he has basically said that he's got nothing to say he hasn't already said. (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,7634.msg482268.html#msg482268)
As for PX, he's shown no original opinions, and when pressed has just stolen from Neo. Also he basically ignored Bard's call for an explanation and just pressed lurkers. Hell for that I'd shift to him right now, but there's still a little time before deadline and I don't want to put someone to L-1 this early.
Ninja'd by Rev, who needs to be less of a jerk. Also because I'm tired and irritable I read that as 'erotic voting actions', which is a mental image I may not be able to get out of my head for a while.
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This is no asshattery! This is conviction!
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So apparently coming up with the same opinions as someone else makes me copying them, even if I came up with them myself after the other? This is why I said I don't like opening my mouth, people always find something bad about it. Also, that Bardiche vote was a OMGUS vote, since apparently I wouldn't be taken seriously if I didn't put a vote with my opinions.
I want to hear, from both NeoSerela and PX, the proper way to end RVS without taking a passive role in the game, and while receiving their applause. Time to get out the elbow grease and put in the work, you two - no one already agrees with you about my method being so bad it's scummy, so it's time you actually make that argument stick.
RVS ends when somebody takes something seriously and things branch out from there, from what I've seen. I took your words as you said, and called you out on the words you said.
reVelske
Nice jumping on to the damn wagon. Got anything else to say about anyone else?
@ #3, I was explaining my previous post. At that point, way early in D1, I saw it as a toss up between Bardiche and Neo.
And I'm not showering love @ Neo, I just formed opinions, and realized how similar it was to Neo. I was fully prepared to go under attack from doing that.
Roukanken
I was just trying to get the lurkers out of lurking, but I didn't plant a vote on him. What's bad about egging people to voice their opinions?
PX, please stop spectating and start producing. Just because you have a reputation as lurker/derp!Town does not give you a free ticket to be lurker/derp again.
So you can tell someone to start producing, but when I do it's bad?
Like NeoSerela, you say my way of ending RVS was bad. Even though we are now doing something actually productive, you find it was a bad way and mimic Serela's "I'd rather be passive and wait for others to do something than take an active role in moving towards a lynch". This permits Scum to monopolise a lynch target and tunnel vision Town into lynching Town on D1.
Okay, fine. You ended RVS with that, because discussion happened after that because people didn't like your vote. If we didn't like your vote and post, then we wouldn't have a discussion now, would we? Somebody had to call you out for the post, because otherwise we'd still be wandering around in D1.
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I do not see any reason to change my vote at this juncture. PX's case on Bardiche feels forced to me and suffers from the same issues as Serela's. His answer to Bardiche's question seems kind of like a dodge to me, since Bard's RVS post was provoking others into taking it seriously. If you believe taking something seriously is how we get out of RVS, then how is making a post risky enough that another would repond to it seriously scummy? Wouldn't it help out, rather? PX's answer does not really explain anything, imo.
I like what Velske said about PX being indecisive what wagon he wanted to jump on while liking Serela, didn't catch that. It's a bit less impressive when you consider he had to be pressed by other players multiple times just to point it out, though.
I would like to know what Serela has to say now that he has more to go by, since last time he posted he claimed he had nothing else to bring up due to a lack of posts.
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It's reV, reV + elske, nothing to do with Velske :V
Nice jumping on to the damn wagon. Got anything else to say about anyone else?
Yep!
Pesco stinks! And doggie noms are tasteless! Bring out the leftover spaghettis and let us have a feast!
TBH, I didn't even see the wagon and thought I was kinda starting one, or rather hoping that I'd be able to start one, all well and good it seems!
And nobody else posted anything that strikes me as attention-worthy, so nay, 'fraid not. I'm usually more than happy to throw lurkers off the bridge but right now we have better options than them.
I was fully prepared to go under attack from doing that.
But your preparation seem insufficient against our attacks of righteousness!
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@PX: So why was my method bad?
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You said you don't participate RVS. Therefore, I take your first post seriously. You jump on a wagon, then say you can go with either wagon that's going on currently(as of ED1). You see someone just pushing a wagon for apparently no reason, you have to call him out on it. That's how I see it, and that's why I call your post bad. Other than that, good job. You got us out of RVS. I actually don't see a reason to lynch you at all, as long as the first post was not to be taken literally.
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Right, so why the vote for me earlier, and who would you want to lynch right now, then?
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1)
Also, that Bardiche vote was a OMGUS vote, since apparently I wouldn't be taken seriously if I didn't put a vote with my opinions.
2)
No idea, but at this point reVelske. He just seems like he's tunnel-visioned and doesn't really seem to be taking things seriously.
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Adding on to my previous post:
Not to mention.... He was basically content with lurking the whole D1 while making pointless remarks.
##Vote: reVelske
(Unofficial) Vote Count
Doll: reVelske
PX: FFMaster, huhwhat, reVelske
Bardiche: Affinity, NeoSerela, Doll, PX
NeoSerela: Bardiche, Roukanken
Roukanken: Affinity
reVelske: PX
PX at L-2
9 alive, 5 votes to lynch
5 hours remain
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Vote Count
PX: FFMaster, huhwhat, reVelske
Bardiche: NeoSerela, Doll
NeoSerela: Bardiche, Roukanken
Roukan: Affinity
reVelske: PX
PX at L-2
9 alive, 5 votes to lynch
If no majority is reached, no lynch
2 hours remain
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Funny enough, of every game I played, only scums have ever labeled my actions as "tunnel-visioned". True story.
And again, ysoserious? I do very much enjoy adding flavour to my posts, complete game-face doesn't really work for me. With that said, I'm being perfectly serious with my voting decision, you are by the far the most suspect of the lot and surely you are able to see that as well (can you not)? And just look at your last two posts, seem like a desperate final attempt to draw attention away from yourself and onto me.
And yes, I won't deny that I was "content" (if you could call it that) with "lurking" (again, if you can call it that), I was not interested in he usual Day One turd-pelting that takes place where I play Mafia games, but I was perfectly willing to jump in and get my hands dirty when there are things that actually appear worthy of my attention (evidently), and I have already explained that. The unwillingness to throw insubstantial accusations around is just done on principle, if it is something one wish to lampoon me for then so be it, I stand by my righteous ways.
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And just look at your last two posts, seem like a desperate final attempt to draw attention away from yourself and onto me.
Well, to be fair, if you were in his position, wouldn't you try to avoid getting lynched as well? Whether he is actually scum or not(only he knows), it would be in his best interest to save himself. Saying that PX trying to save himself makes you more sure of your lynch sounds fishy to me. However, since a lynch is better than no lynch, I'm going to have to leave my vote on PX.
>>UNLESS<<
People move to a different lynch target in the next hour. Neo hasn't said a thing since yesterday, feels like he is lying low to avoid further fire. It just makes me more suspicious of him.
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Hey, what happens when no majority vote is reached by the end of the day?
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9 alive, 5 votes to lynch
If no majority is reached, no lynch
We have less than 1 hour to decide.
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You should probably switch your vote to PX so we can get a lynch assuming somebody else comes along too, Doll, in case that wasn't obvious.
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Guess I night as well get this over with *shrug*
##Unvote
##Vote: PX
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Well, to be fair, if you were in his position, wouldn't you try to avoid getting lynched as well?
Certainly, but not by making insubstantial retaliation at whoever that just previously attacked me, and if I was role-less and there was no-one else around that appear particularly scummy, I would gladly take the bullet rather than risking ousting a power-role or such.
Saying that PX trying to save himself makes you more sure of your lynch sounds fishy to me.
There is nothing fishy about apparent truth.
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I loathe you all, so very much.
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About 5 mins left. PX at L-1. Phoneposting, so no big post.
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I'm sorry PX *hugs PX*
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I find people's lack of activity during the final few hours to be... quite disconcerting.
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No Lynch was reached. 24 hours for actions. No action submitted means no action taken.
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Huhwhat the Fat Dog bit off more than he could chew and choked to death.
8 alive, 5 votes to lynch.
72 hours remain.
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Noooo! Poor huhwhat...
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Forum downtime (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,7674.msg485003.html#new) will be compensated for.
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Where the hell is everybody? Can people not even make an effort to at least check the thread within the last 5-10 hours and try get a lynch? I mean, come on, no lynch on day one? Now we STILL got pretty much nothing to work with!
huhwhat's death must be avenged.
##VOTE: PX
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Round about 9AM our time.
I read this and thought Pesco and I were in the same timezone, so I pulled myself awake at 8:30 to see if a hammer was needed.
Unfortunately, I am apparently 2 hours behind Pesco, because by the time I showed up the bad things had already happened. :[ Sorry.
Anyway. At the moment I'm actually still torn between Neo and PX. But what seals the deal for me is that while everyone started focusing on PX and PX alone, Neo got away with saying absolutely nothing after his 'Not talking unless there's more to talk about' (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,7634.msg482268.html#msg482268) post. Lurking is one thing, but failing to contribute when you're a major suspect is outright scummy. Neo basically appears to have been keeping quiet and letting PX incriminate himself so that he would fall back out of the spotlight.
##Vote: Neo
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From me...
Neo hasn't said a thing since yesterday, feels like he is lying low to avoid further fire. It just makes me more suspicious of him.
I'll give him a bit more time for him to make a defense post though, since Day 2 just started. I'm assuming that he asked permission from Pesco to lurk, since no prod messages have appeared from Pesco(unless he is just PMing them, and not saying in the thread?).
reVelske, do you think going straight for a lynch on PX before even discussing Huh what's death is a smart idea? We now have 72 hours to work with, and plenty of time to get a proper town lynch going. I still feel he is scummy, but I want to wait for Neo's post first.
Huh what taking the bullet for N1 kill... I'm not sure. I don't know how big the names "Bardiche", "Roukanen" and "Huh what" are, but they seem to be the most experienced in this game. I would have bet that one of those 3 got killed. Other than that, I can't think right now. Need to sleep I guesses.
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Considering Neo's last active time was "November 11, 2010, 01:54:35 pm" (Pesco Time?), I'd like to think it's because he was busy with something else or simply neglected the thread, same goes to Affnity, not sure with Bard since he has been on after the end of Day One. Regardless, it's quite shocking to see people not making an effort to just pop into the thread for few minutes near the end of the day and actually DO something.
Though I do find it rather odd how Bard, who has been an active player during most of Day One, neglected to come in at the end of the day to finalize a lynch. And TBH, I actually though PX was gonna be lynched, I didn't know we absolutely had to do a hard lynch rather than lynch whoever on most votes at the end of Day One.
I want to see what Neo has to say for himself, otherwise, nothing has changed, PX is still the most suspect dog in this forsaken house. Though if Affinity choose to continue his AFK spree, I'm happy to get him out, death to all lurkers.
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reVelske, do you think going straight for a lynch on PX before even discussing Huh what's death is a smart idea? We now have 72 hours to work with, and plenty of time to get a proper town lynch going. I still feel he is scummy, but I want to wait for Neo's post first.
Not like I'm going to get my wagon filled up anytime soon :V, so no trouble there, I'm merely showing my opinion on this matter with the vote, and continue what huhwhat started.
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@reVelske: Day end was at 5 AM for me. Not all of us are American.
##Vote: Doll
Managed to make a post right after day start, but proceeded to do absolutely nothing. Here's your incentive to start talking.
As for others, I agree with Roukanken about Serela's poor defence and would like to see him step up his game. He also still has that question to answer about why my D1 actions were "bad". PX's accusation against me re: ending RVS being a scummy action is still unexplained for.
Yes, people would have to criticise eventually. But here we have two people doggedly biting into how terrible the action itself was to the point of absolute abandon of any other thread to pursue.
@Affinity: I never branded either of them as passive. But both PX and NeoSerela explicitly said that it is better to joke around during RVS until someone does something stupid and pound on them for it than it is to take active action to end it. I do hold their praise for passive participation to the game against them as a scummy sentiment and I am honestly surprised you misread that.
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I haven't really done anything because I was waiting for you guys to post, I'm not really good at starting conversations...
Anyway, for some reason I suspect FFMaster, but I don't really know why... I also suspect PX, even though I hugged him. I also dislike you, Bardiche, for some reason but I don't really suspect you as scum.
It's nearing midnight now as I post this, so sometime tomorrow I'll probably post a better reply. I'm also not good at explaining things...
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@reVelske: Day end was at 5 AM for me. Not all of us are American.
So? Neither am I an American, the day end was at 9AM for me, you could've at least showed up during the evening of 11th seeing how you knew you weren't going be able to make any other posts afterwards, yet you didn't.
So tell me, what's your view on Day One no-lynch?
Anyway, for some reason I suspect FFMaster, but I don't really know why... I also suspect PX, even though I hugged him. I also dislike you, Bardiche, for some reason but I don't really suspect you as scum.
It's nearing midnight now as I post this, so sometime tomorrow I'll probably post a better reply. I'm also not good at explaining things...
What did you hope to achieve by listing your... eh, dislikes without any reasons whatsoever? You don't have to write essays or get into details, simple reasons would suffice.
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Ah okay. Anyway, sleepy time now...
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@Bardiche: But this is not reflected at all in their latter posts or their general play in other games. I don't usually employ meta in this game but it seems rather silly for people to actually change their entire scumhunting philosophy just because they are scum and try and convince people; it's likely they would say the same thing whether town or scum. This is truly lynching people just for having the wrong idea about RVS, which has nothing to do with their alignment at all. It makes the entire PXhunt on D1 look like a complete laugh, despite the supposed sins that they are committing that people like Doll are more guilty for (PX defends decently). How is not correctly answering your questions about RVS scummy? How does it really matter? Furthermore, if they are advocating passiveness, shouldn't they be... passive?
In general people who actually attempt to hide their scummy nature are more worth going for than criticizing people over the definition for RVS, which has honestly not brought us anywhere during the past few games. Roukanken being first and foremost, with a complete ignorance of what NeoSerela said in this post (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,7634.msg482225.html#msg482225) which is reasonable (RVS really just ends; nothing wrong with that) at least warrants some kind of reply and just opportunistically hopping onto his far more unimportant "I don't know what to do" post. Bardiche and huhwhat had their replies (which I disagree with), reVelske vaugely addresses it and has some initiative with his original PX case, and FFMaster refers to a rather unimportant part of it but Roukanken just sails on by like the godfather. Also, I notice that he has never really made clear why Neo is more scummy than PX before the earlier lurked for some time, since he said Neo had original opinions while PX was just spectating. So...
##Vote: Roukanken
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As for real life excuses, internet at camp didn't work yesterday, making me unable to do anything whatsoever, which is why I wasn't around for the hammer. Despite all my disagreements with the PX case, I would have hammered if I was around, I suppose.
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Okay folks, more posts perhaps?
Roukanken being first and foremost, with a complete ignorance of what NeoSerela said in this post (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,7634.msg482225.html#msg482225) which is reasonable
I still don't see how it's "reasonable", there's absolutely nothing wrong with pressuring a player to get things rolling, especially when it's an inexperienced player who may very well crack under the pressure. If someone wants to hammer like an idiot then they can deal the consequence. And of course, EXPLAINING how you are voting just to pressure defeats the whole point of actually pressuring someone.
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Vote count
PX: reVelske
Neo: Roukan
Doll: Bardiche
Roukan: Affinity
Not voting: PX, FFMaster, NeoSerela, Doll
8 alive, 5 votes to lynch.
72 hours remain.
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Reading the posts again, I can't really make much of a decision at the moment, so I think I'm just gonna follow my suspicion here, so here's my:
##Vote: FFMaster
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Care to explain your suspicion? Or by "suspicion" you meant "gut feeling"?
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Yeah, gut feeling I guess, just really don't know yet.
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Don't want to sound rude, but how can you "really don't know" for this long? If you are waiting for something to be "sure" of, it won't happen unless you are Sherlock Holmes or has a certain power role. Start placing yourself in others' shoes, try see what makes sense and what doesn't, try find flaws in people's thinking, try find inconsistencies, start bashing heads until bean pastes come out. It's rare that you'll ever find anything you will be absolutely certain of, so you just gotta put your foot down on whatever you can find and uncover.
One does not simply "don't know" his way into Mordor.
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Hmm, got it, I'll read the posts again when my brain is functioning better. Maybe I can actually describe my reasons in more then a couple of sentences then.
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@reVelske: I was online at 1 AM, posted, went to sleep before the deadline fell which I now see was at 6 AM. There was no evidence to suggest that there would be No Lynch without majority before that time. Your attempt to paint that in a bad light does not reflect well on yourself.
@Doll: The personal sentiment is noted, but unfortunately we're not here to make friends. :-( I'm sorry, you'll have to put up with it for a while longer. Can you elucidate why FFMaster gives you a gutfeeling when others don't? You don't need to list everyone, just say what makes FFMaster stand out to you.
@Affinity: You don't need to act it to advocate it. They vote me because they think I should've RVS'd and just sat back until someone'd eventually end it. This is bad logic and it moves into the territory of scummy reasoning to stifle discussion.
##Unvote
##Vote: NeoSerela
As pursuing Doll won't amount to anything, and I happen to agree with Roukanken about Serela's lurking, and given she just danced past D1 while lurking, I'm satisfied.
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@reVelske (and Bard, slightly): I can understand that you don't really subscribe to the RVS case on PX when voting for him, but I think strongly that Serela's counter to all the (in my opinion) silly cases about RVS is decent enough. There IS no textbook-specific way to end RVS, and there is nothing wrong with finding Bard's reason for ending RVS to be strange (e.g vote the most-voted person! And repeat again and again that he ended RVS) from their point of view; which is from what I understand, the main immediate reason why they would vote for him. I feel that the latter is insufficiently addressed and that the more obviously attackable things like them expecting something stupid to happen needlessly exaggerated, which Roukanken seemed to have jumped on. Bard did not make his post yet then, and thus Rou had no reason to ignore that post. I agree with you that the part about PX is fluff though; sorry for not making things clear.
Of course, I don't think that his continued absence is any good, but I just feel that the case on him has been blown out of proportion by emphasis on the wrong points even on day two. Yet another weakness of MoTK Mafia in my opinion. You should be voting people who jumped onto wagons on D1, not on disagreements with scumhunting philosophy.
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@reVelske: I was online at 1 AM
Oh...? *checks the posts again* eh... right, woops, guess I was a bit confused with your posts' posting time, my apologies.
There was no evidence to suggest that there would be No Lynch without majority before that time.
Oh? So this isn't some custom game style on MotK? So this is actually your fault, Pesco? >:S
Your attempt to paint that in a bad light does not reflect well on yourself.
pfffffffffft. ( ?3?)
Regardless, I'd still like your opinion on Day One No-Lynch.
I feel that the latter is insufficiently addressed and that the more obviously attackable things like them expecting something stupid to happen needlessly exaggerated
Huh? :V
I'm tempted to go "you know what, this is like beating a dead yukkuri, we not getting anywhere." But it's just so ridiculously simple and straight forward IMHO that I absolutely do not see where you guys are coming from with this entire argument, if I was in Roukan's position, I'd have ignore it as well. Fact is, Bard DID end RvS with his vote, exactly as intended too I bet. it's to push Doll closer to lynch to either (1) hope he'd crack under pressure, assuming he is a scum (2) see who would jump to his rescue, (3) force people to discuss the issue. It is a perfectly valid way to end RvS and Bard only reemphasized that point after you people harped on it, and he had every reason to reemphasize it. What if he placed a vote on someone else eg: me? Nothing would likely have happen and people would've probably carried on being silly for a little longer.
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D1 No Lynch is a D1 No Lynch. I fail to see what opinion you want on it? I'd rather there'd been a lynch - even one on a Townie is better than none at all. ┐(-｡ｰ; )┌ (I can do smilies, too!)
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(RVS really just ends; nothing wrong with that)
Either you have no idea what you're talking about, or you're making crap up as you go along.
Let's take your line of reasoning to the logical extreme. Let's say that people avoid making dramatic, poorly-constructed cases on D1 in order to escape the RVS. Let's go on, then, to assume that eventually the RVS ends. What happens then? People have nothing to work with and so have to make dramatic, poorly-constructed cases, which is what moves you out of RVS and into genuine discussion anyway.
Topics of conversation do not magically appear out of nowhere. People have to give Town something to talk about, and if that doesn't happen we'll never move beyond random votes and we may as well draw our lynch targets out of a hat. Sooner or later someone would have to do what Bard did or we wouldn't be having a conversation like this one just now. Calling him out for what is in essence an extremely Townie action is sort of paradoxical.
Also,
but I just feel that the case on him has been blown out of proportion by emphasis on the wrong points even on day two. Yet another weakness of MoTK Mafia in my opinion. You should be voting people who jumped onto wagons on D1, not on disagreements with scumhunting philosophy.
Appeal to Authority. Explain why refusing to offer any reasoning at all for your case and then proceeding to duck every question thrown at you is a 'wrong point' being held against Neo.
Neo STILL hasn't posted a thing today, and PX also disappeared after his not-dying yesterday. Honestly, if they have good reasons for lurking and not contributing, I'd expect either a post from them saying 'sorry I'm gonna be away for a while because X' or for Pesco to say he's been notified about their absence. Requesting prods on Neo and PX.
Doll is ugh, but ugh is a nulltell. Hoping he can produce his clarification later on.
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Ker-bleh. Motk is down all weekend and then when it comes up I find out we got a no lynch. So we're still practically in day 1, in terms of stuff to work with. That's... really sucky. Oh well. It doesn't help that most of D1 is based around the rvs ridiculous, which I find ultimately not really usable for good scumhunting (directly, at least).
While I would agree with you there, I think PX has had plenty of time to watch and learn. From the other forum that we are from, he seems to be quick at adapting and learning. He has already participated in 2 games. In the first game, I initially got targetted for doing the same thing he is doing now ie. lurking and not putting up new info. In the second, he was lurking a lot and not participating at the same time, and got targetted for it. I think this time, he is more likely scum, and is trying to lie low, like he did in the first game. Hey, it worked then, why not now?
But... this is still only early in day 1! Isn't it a bit early to decide if he's trying to lie low again? Not to mention when he did it last game, he was actually town.
Yes, people would have to criticise eventually. But here we have two people doggedly biting into how terrible the action itself was to the point of absolute abandon of any other thread to pursue.
There wasn't really anything else for me to pursue anyway, at the time. Nothing else was going on. Honestly, while at this point I feel debate over what happened itself in the RVS is kind of nulltelly, you certainly seem to be over exaggerating a lot of stuff to make your targets sound bad, as Affinity gave examples of.
Bigger post coming (if I think of more stuff to say, at least) since I'm moving from my laptop to my desktop, since working with my broken-monitor laptop is irritating.
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Blah blah, maintenance stopped me from posting, ends late at night, sent a pm to pesco that I was gonna be gone for half the day, I'm back, longer post coming.
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Do you have anything to add right now beside "I disagree with the case on PX because WIFOM" and "I disagree with Bardiche's methods because" while not providing a shred of initiative yourself?
Add this to the list of misreps from Bard this game. I was obviously showing initiative with my case on you, regardless of whether it was a good case or not.
Not sure how I should feel about Rev instantly going back on PX at d2 start, but then again, nothing had really changed other then time till deadline anyway. This is why no lynching sucks, we've gained pretty much no solid info to work with.
Calling him out for what is in essence an extremely Townie action is sort of paradoxical.
...I certainly wouldn't go as far as saying what Bard did was "extremely Townie", regardless of anything else about it. It's easy to do for anyone, and doesn't hinder scum to do it. In fact, since chances are at least one person will poke him for it, it's an easy way to Bard say he ended rvs AND give himself an easy target to go after. Although perhaps not quite scummy in of itself, I honestly do not see how such a thing would be "Extremely Townie".
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add to the last sentence "given that there are perfectly fine reasons for scum to do it as well."
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What's the point of these "longest post pending" notifications anyways? I'm sure we can survive without being told about that, just stop wasting breath and actually post already! :V
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Waiting warmly for PX post. It's been 4 hours though...
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I want to see what Neo has to say for himself, otherwise, nothing has changed, PX is still the most suspect dog in this forsaken house. Though if Affinity choose to continue his AFK spree, I'm happy to get him out, death to all lurkers.
And where did that get us last game? Absolutely nowhere.
Also, I type up my posts while I'm reading and coming up with stuff, so you might see contradictory things, but I'm just overwriting what I say previously in my post.
I'm tempted to go "you know what, this is like beating a dead yukkuri, we not getting anywhere." But it's just so ridiculously simple and straight forward IMHO that I absolutely do not see where you guys are coming from with this entire argument, if I was in Roukan's position, I'd have ignore it as well. Fact is, Bard DID end RvS with his vote, exactly as intended too I bet. it's to push Doll closer to lynch to either (1) hope he'd crack under pressure, assuming he is a scum (2) see who would jump to his rescue, (3) force people to discuss the issue. It is a perfectly valid way to end RvS and Bard only reemphasized that point after you people harped on it, and he had every reason to reemphasize it. What if he placed a vote on someone else eg: me? Nothing would likely have happen and people would've probably carried on being silly for a little longer.
Okay, he ended RvS, we argue about RvS, and what does that prove? That we think that RvS ends differently, and that simply because we disagreed with the way he ended RvS, that we are bad? Someone has to come to the defense of Doll in order for discussion to come out of it, so what would have happened if Neo didn't? People would have just ignored that wagon, and continue on with joke votes. And we'd still have nothing then. So I see it that Neo and Bard both started a discussion, but Neo gets put in a negative light because of this. Actually, you seem to put a negative light on everything involving me and Neo.
@Affinity: You don't need to act it to advocate it. They vote me because they think I should've RVS'd and just sat back until someone'd eventually end it. This is bad logic and it moves into the territory of scummy reasoning to stifle discussion.
I don't think Neo was advocating RVS, because if he was, he would have just continued joke voting or jump on the Doll wagon. How is voting on someone who pushed a wagon to L-2 advocating RVS?
Doll: You'll have to start getting into the game, coming up with opinions and showing why they exist and backing them up. It'll help you improve in the long run. However, pushing him is kind of pointless, as he's a new player, and likely wouldn't help at all.
As for others, I agree with Roukanken about Serela's poor defence and would like to see him step up his game. He also still has that question to answer about why my D1 actions were "bad". PX's accusation against me re: ending RVS being a scummy action is still unexplained for.
Here (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,7634.msg483597.html#msg483597)
Okay, on to Roukanke[Z]
Bard gets points for producing the vote that moves us out of RVS. Neo seems to not be appreciating (or caring, if he knows and is acting it) the fact that early wagons - and the way people jump on them/react to them - are the best way to generate discussion. Protip, Neo - if no-one does something risky and gives people a reason to make a case, we'd never get out of RVS.
Way back from ED1, but I'd like to comment on this.
"and the way people jump on them/react to them"
What's bad about his reacting to it? Exactly what is bad about reacting to it? If nobody reacted to it, then we'd have still gone nowhere. Is it bad to actually go against somebody if he says that he ends RVS?
Topics of conversation do not magically appear out of nowhere. People have to give Town something to talk about, and if that doesn't happen we'll never move beyond random votes and we may as well draw our lynch targets out of a hat. Sooner or later someone would have to do what Bard did or we wouldn't be having a conversation like this one just now. Calling him out for what is in essence an extremely Townie action is sort of paradoxical.
You seem to forget that sooner of later, someone would have to do what Neo did or we wouldn't be having a conversation. If going against what Bard did was scummy, then WHY IN HELL, MICHIGAN (http://www.hell2u.com/) WOULD ANYONE GO AGAINST IT IF IT JUST BRINGS SUSPICION AGAINST THEM?! You're just egging wagons against Neo and me, but just pushing the RVS argument as if having a different way of hunting scum than you is scummy.
##Vote: Roukanken
Also, why not tell people we're alive and having something coming up than just randomly posting?
NInja'd: I was busy writing on my guns in Black Ops w/ friends :V
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and that simply because we disagreed with the way he ended RvS, that we are bad?
That's not the point I was aiming for, I'm merely saying how this attack against Bard and his RvS-ending actions were unwarranted and there was no argument to be had. "Making people out to be the bad guys" were not my intention with this.
Someone has to come to the defense of Doll in order for discussion to come out of it, so what would have happened if Neo didn't? People would have just ignored that wagon, and continue on with joke votes.
But he did, and that's exactly what one would hope for, no?
I don't think Neo was advocating RVS, because if he was, he would have just continued joke voting or jump on the Doll wagon. How is voting on someone who pushed a wagon to L-2 advocating RVS?
Advocating RvS? And just who said that? Where did you get that from?
Doll: You'll have to start getting into the game, coming up with opinions and showing why they exist and backing them up. It'll help you improve in the long run. However, pushing him is kind of pointless, as he's a new player, and likely wouldn't help at all.
Actually, I've had several games where newbie scums made terrible scumslip upon pressuring. The tactics seem perfectly valid to me.
Just to check up on something, PX, did you know you weren't going to be lynch at the end of Day One?
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No, I said I loathe you all because I fully expected to die.
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Why did you not bother to roleclaim then?
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Is there really a point? If I died, the mod would have claimed my role. And it's not like it would have helped any bit.
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I wouldn't be so sure about the "not helped one bit" part.
Regardless, and this is just a personal opinion, "I hate you all" seem really like a scum dying message to me, I just feel that roleclaiming or going "well fucking done, you people just killed a town." would be a more typical dying townie response. I'm sure you are speaking the truth about not believing that roleclaim would've helped one bit, but still, when a town is bitter about being an impending day lynch, a response that emphasizes how the town is wrong and/or how specific player(s) has/have misled the town seem far more appropriate.
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@Roukanken (and reVelske)
People have nothing to work with and so have to make dramatic, poorly-constructed cases, which is what moves you out of RVS and into genuine discussion anyway.
Which comes out of nowhere. Anything goes from 'third on the bandwagon is scum' to 'he has more votes than anyone else, let's lynch him', which, to Neo's and PX's credit, are effectively 'stupidly constructed cases'. In this way, they just 'end' with something stupid. I have never been in a game where RVS never ends.
Sooner or later someone would have to do what Bard did or we wouldn't be having a conversation like this one just now.
I'm sure many games in past history will discredit this completely. E.g someone voted himself and no one was happy with it; someone was not happy about being bandwagoned and OMGUSed etc. Anyone can end RVS. I did it before when I was scum and so did others. Calling it 'extremely townie' is rather odd.
Why are you defending Bard and not yourself? Wasn't I attacking you for jumping on the Neo wagon? I can't argue with Neo not providing very solid stances from PX onwards (even now), but the fact is that you voted for the RVS thing which Neo countered alrightly in the post I linked. But you did not refer to that when voting. Add that to your passive scumhunting (not asking questions, etc.) and that's my case which you should be addressing.
===
Also, reVelske, tone of voice is something rather fishy to be getting into now. Didn't PX repeatedly say how much Bard had misrepped him already before that bah post on D1?
Not sure about PX's case on Roukanken, but I second the question that needs to be addressed regarding all this obsolete RVS discussion; if no one reacted to Bard's pile on vote on Doll, wouldn't RVS still continue? Shouldn't Neo and PX be credited with ending RVS, with all your logic, if theirs is the first case based on actual words in posts followed by a vote?
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@ Affinity: It's not so much the tone of voice, but more a case of expected posting mannerism in a given situation. If say you were in PX's position and is town (or scum), what would be your choice of words?
And being misrepped by Bard before bah post? Eh, how is that of any relevance?
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Not much to say (or time to say it), but can find myself in the assessment that what I did is not "extremely Townie"; nor is it extremely scummy (to me), but I can follow trains of thought that lead into that.
The reason I raise this point stubbornly is that while PX and NeoSerela vote me for an allegedly "bad move", they never provided why the move, in particular, was most scummy and why it was worth keeping their vote on me for. Or rather, Serela's; PX just said it was bad but only OMGUS voted or something which confounds me but playstyle difference.
I don't think Neo was advocating RVS, because if he was, he would have just continued joke voting or jump on the Doll wagon. How is voting on someone who pushed a wagon to L-2 advocating RVS?
I quote:
tl;dr I don't really see it as all that helpful. You even said you're one to stay out of rvs stupidity, yet you've obviously contributed your own share of it this game, instead of just randomvoting and waiting for it to end.
you've obviously contributed your own share of [rvs stupidity] this game, instead of just randomvoting and waiting for it to end. Telling me I should've just sit still and waited for RVS to end by itself than to try and take active action to do so. This, yes, I hold against NeoSerela as an absurd charge and advocating of passivity in RVS.
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Okay, I see your charge against Neo now.
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The lurk is strong this game.
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The lurk is strong this game.
Quoted for emphasis.
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Thanksgiving isn't until next week, Halloween passed a long time ago, and I'm sure most people here aren't American. Wtf is with the lurk? :/
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Vote count
PX: reVelske
Neo: Roukan. Bardiche
Roukan: Affinity, PX
FFMaster: Doll
Not voting: FFMaster, NeoSerela
8 alive, 5 votes to lynch.
25 hours remain.
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Just a reminder that the day ends at 10AM Pesco Time? tomorrow. (currently 9:50AM, you do the conversion), so PLEASE start finalizing a lynch. I see absolutely no reason for me to move my vote off PX at this stage, so jump on this wagon please.
And Bard, you know, you seem like an intellectual individual and experienced Mafia player, YET... you've made no real attempts at scumhunting and spent all your time defending yourself against pointless arguments and counterattacking Neo for his initiate attack from the previous day, surely you are capable of doing much more than just that?
And enjoying the lurking are we, Doll? I've been monitoring the thread the for quite some time yesterday during day time and you seem to be the most active member of the crowd, yet you've STILL made no attempts at anything in particular. Are you really that uncertain? Or are you not particularly interested in the game? You seem like a creative individual, I'd imagine you are perfectly capable of coming up with some colourful theories. Yet, you only respond when someone prods at you, promising us detailed posts in the future but has yet to fulfill that promise, it really starting to feel like you are just riding newbie status easy!
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Well, I told myself I'm gonna get a good explanation buuut....I've been kinda putting it off...
Now I just feel guilty...Okay, gonna do it now!
Where's that pen and paper....
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Ok, here we go.
I don't see people budging from their wagons at all, and the case against PX isn't exactly the greatest. Affinity has a good point about the ending of RVS, where Neo casted the first proper(non RVS) vote. I just attacked them since there was nothing else to work off at that point in time. Now, however, there is a bit more to go off, even if it just a bit more.
reVelske now jumps out to me as scummy. He has done nothing but pressure others to post and pressure PX claiming he might slip(PX handled the pressuring well imo). Then again, this game has really become a lurkfest, probably due to the lack of info. I have also pressured others to post, but nowhere to the degree he is doing it. He also said that PX's dying message was scummy, which I highly disagree with. I don't see that message as anything other than "Fuck you guys for killing me D1". For D2, he instantly tries to lynch PX, claiming "huh what's death must be avenged", suggesting that he probably sees PX as scum no matter what.
##Vote reVelske
And now, time to wait for Doll's post.
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Okay, I give up writing a summary of all this so I don't have to read all the posts every time I'm looking for something. Anyway, while doing so, I found I don't have any ounce of reason at all for my suspicions and now I'm feeling very stupid somewhat....
##Unvote
Urrgg, what did I get myself into....
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reVelske now jumps out to me as scummy.
In this god forsaken lurker game, I'm sure I jump out, but scummy? Eh what? Let's see...
He has done nothing but pressure others to post and pressure PX claiming he might slip(PX handled the pressuring well imo).
When did I claim PX might slip? Source please.
And got any suggestions on how we can actually make things happen?
but nowhere to the degree he is doing it.
Possibly because I find this half-dead game more frustrating than you? Maybe because I actually aimed to do more than beating a dead rat like everyone else?
He also said that PX's dying message was scummy, which I highly disagree with. I don't see that message as anything other than "Fuck you guys for killing me D1".
As stated, it's just a personal opinion/theory on how people would react to lynch, not something I'd bank on and I was hoping for more opinions on that. So tell me, what EXACTLY would YOU have said if you were getting lynched as a town?
For D2, he instantly tries to lynch PX, claiming "huh what's death must be avenged", suggesting that he probably sees PX as scum no matter what.
Now that's just you misinterpreting. I'm voting PX because nothing's changed from the previous day, as for avenging death, that has nothing to do with PX-lynch TBH, it is the duty of the Epitome of Justice to avenge his fallen comrades. "Continuing what huhwhat started" on the other hand is related to huhwhat's death and PX-lynch.
If anything, all your reasons seem completely counter-logical and you are just going for whoever that actually stands out, if anything, a scum would be perfectly happy to sit back and relax, watch the day tick by to another no-lynch. Now considering if I do die today, you WILL be on LYLO tomorrow, in that case, go ahead, it will serves as a good wakeup call to this half-sleep crowd.
And I've never in my Mafia career been day lynch, I dare you to make it my first.
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OK I'm in a lousy mood, I've been taking on too much, and Mafia on top of things like NNWM was probably a mistake. Still, as they say in Mastermind, I've started so I'll finish.
Neo is back! And is doing nothing but defend himself.
Add this to the list of misreps from Bard this game. I was obviously showing initiative with my case on you, regardless of whether it was a good case or not.
Too bad this initiative failed to lead into the rest of the day, when you basically decided to shut up and not contribute.
...I certainly wouldn't go as far as saying what Bard did was "extremely Townie", regardless of anything else about it. It's easy to do for anyone, and doesn't hinder scum to do it. In fact, since chances are at least one person will poke him for it, it's an easy way to Bard say he ended rvs AND give himself an easy target to go after. Although perhaps not quite scummy in of itself, I honestly do not see how such a thing would be "Extremely Townie".
But it was still a risk he didn't have to take. He could easily have sat around, made a stupid vote, and let RVS continue longer so we'd have even LESS to work with when we did eventually get out. And of COURSE ending RVS hinders scum, because suddenly people are talking SERIOUSLY and they have to give REASONING for their votes.
What's bad about his reacting to it? Exactly what is bad about reacting to it? If nobody reacted to it, then we'd have still gone nowhere. Is it bad to actually go against somebody if he says that he ends RVS?
You have misinterpreted the point. I was saying that the posts and reactions of RVS are how we generate suspicion. There are good reactions and bad reactions, and in my book 'oh look someone is trying to start serious discussion MUST VOTE HIM' is not a good reaction.
You seem to forget that sooner of later, someone would have to do what Neo did or we wouldn't be having a conversation. If going against what Bard did was scummy, then WHY IN HELL, MICHIGAN WOULD ANYONE GO AGAINST IT IF IT JUST BRINGS SUSPICION AGAINST THEM?!
The point of Neo being the first person to oppose Bard is not the sole reason my vote is on him. Like I said at Day Start, he basically disappeared and allowed you to incriminate yourself and earn top spot on the lynch. He didn't answer Bard's questions (and indeed he still hasn't given much of an answer to 'why do you think it's bad to start discussion' other than 'I just do!') and offered nothing new but poking holes at Bard. He hasn't even put a vote down anywhere.
@Affinity:
Which comes out of nowhere. Anything goes from 'third on the bandwagon is scum' to 'he has more votes than anyone else, let's lynch him', which, to Neo's and PX's credit, are effectively 'stupidly constructed cases'. In this way, they just 'end' with something stupid. I have never been in a game where RVS never ends.
IT DOES NOT COME OUT OF NOWHERE. AT SOME POINT SOMEONE HAS TO TAKE A NON SERIOUS VOTE SERIOUSLY IN ORDER FOR US TO MOVE OUT OF RVS, AND THE SOONER WE DO IT THE SOONER WE GET TO SERIOUS DISCUSSION.
I have no idea why I need to make this obvious, because from where I'm standing it's common sense.
Why are you defending Bard and not yourself? Wasn't I attacking you for jumping on the Neo wagon? I can't argue with Neo not providing very solid stances from PX onwards (even now), but the fact is that you voted for the RVS thing which Neo countered alrightly in the post I linked. But you did not refer to that when voting. Add that to your passive scumhunting (not asking questions, etc.) and that's my case which you should be addressing.
Because scumhunting is better than defense? Prove a better case on someone else and you don't need to waste time and words explaining why a case on you is inferior to your own case? And again THE FACT HE STAYED SILENT INSTEAD OF CONTRIBUTING TO DISCUSSION AND MOVING US OUT OF THIS BARD/NEO BULLSHIT IS WHAT I HATE SO MUCH.
GAH this game is giving me a headache. It just feels so logical to me that 'starting discussion GOOD, ending discussion BAD', but apparently I'm the only one who sees it that way. T_T
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Okay, I just finished reading everyone's post from day one, and I got to say, we got nothing really solid to work with to find out who's scum in my opinion but then I don't know much on scummy or townie behavior. I think what we need to do is investigate Huhwhats death to find out or do scum just randomly choose people?
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huhwhat and Bard were the most pro-town players on Day One IMHO, with Bard drawing more attention and being more active/aggressive than huhwhat, as it has been stated by someone, Bard would be the more ideal player to kill off during night, but by being the player that draws the most attention, he may very well be protected by an angel/doctor (a power role that prevents a specific player from being night lynched), so to avoid a wasted night kill, scums would likely go for the second best option, that being huhwhat.
Or Bard is a scum.
I see nothing else useful that can be deduced from his death (not that what I said is really of any use).
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And this is why day 1 isn't supposed to last 160 hours, now everyone is just starting to yell at eachother and we don't have any solid info to help decide which side of the yelling (or if neither side) is more likely to be scum. At this point, quite honestly, we're degrading into something a bit retarded. I could probably be persuaded to vote for like half of the players at the moment out of almost wifom-y logic (Although 100% honestly if I had to vote for someone I felt was obvtown just to get any lynch today, I would)
I see absolutely no reason for me to move my vote off PX at this stage, so jump on this wagon please.
Uh. lol. "I don't see anything wrong with my case on this guy so everyone kill him plz"
As stated, it's just a personal opinion/theory on how people would react to lynch, not something I'd bank on and I was hoping for more opinions on that. So tell me, what EXACTLY would YOU have said if you were getting lynched as a town?
What? Why does it matter what someone says if they're getting lynched? At it's best it's meta-filled wifom, your question seems almost anti-productive to be asked because it's continuing the conversation in a direction absolutely useless to go in.
And I've never in my Mafia career been day lynch, I dare you to make it my first.
...okay, now you're just getting arrogant. It's kind of annoying.
Too bad this initiative failed to lead into the rest of the day, when you basically decided to shut up and not contribute.
I'm afraid it wasn't really my choice whether I wanted to post or not at that time, but you can't know whether I'm telling the truth about that or not, so your point stands.
About your paragraph over RVS, Rou, I honestly don't feel that the advantage gained over not actively ending RVS is terribly significant, especially considering that doing what Bard did pretty much ensures that, if you do end up ending RVS, you also have an easy target falling into your lap. How Bard ended RVS requires someone to argue against what he did, which he can then counter.
RVS never lasts all of D1 whether someone intentionally tries to instantly end it or not, because if it starts lasting too long, that in itself becomes a reason for it to stop because people start going "Oh hell naw" and etc. It baffles me that you're arguing what Bard did is indeed incredibly townie. If it was so incredibly townie, that would only make it more likely for scum to do it anyway, as being labelled "incredibly townie" at the cost of having a <12 hour rvs as opposed to a possibly 24~ hour rvs is by far worth it. You're overestimating what town gains with a shorter rvs and underestimating what a scum!Bard would be gaining in exchange.
Because scumhunting is better than defense?
Yeah, this is true, but that does NOT mean to just completely ignore it when someone makes a case on you. It just means don't spend all your time defending yourself and less time scumhunting. You should still be defending yourself at least a little bit, unless there's not any good way to defend yourself in the first place.
Would like to vote Bard for misrep spam, tunnelling on people who voted him, and because I can easily see why scum would have done what he's done.
Would like to vote Rou over obsessive Bard defense that IMO goes into badlogic territory that even Bard himself has said he doesn't agree with.
Wouldn't mind voting Rev. PX, FFM, and Affinity IMO look fine right now. Doll is ughnew although I do sympathize a little with his 132.
That about sums up how I feel about people at the moment. Will ##Vote:Bardiche, although since the Rou lynch looks much more likely to happen today, I'll probably switch over to voting Rou before I go to sleep today.
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>now everyone is just starting to yell at eachother
Okay, this was a bit of an overreaction, but tensions within several people are definitely starting to get high. Will be very happy when we get todays lynch done and can start moving in a more well based direction.
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Use the proper voting notation like everyone does you tit
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At this point, quite honestly, we're degrading into something a bit retarded.
Not really. Sure, we don't have much to work on, but if you are wishing for some "solid evidence" to fall from the sky, well, that's not gonna happen. There is hardly ever any "solid evidence" in Mafia games unless roleclaims take place. And all these "yelling" are still far too "tame" for my likings.
Uh. lol. "I don't see anything wrong with my case on this guy so everyone kill him plz"
Works for me.
What? Why does it matter what someone says if they're getting lynched?
If I accuse you of something then proceed to BURN KNUCKLEpunch you in the face, would you go "WHAT? I DIDN'T DO IT!?", start crying, immediately punch back or just stand around silently in confusion and rage? If you know the guy's personality and if he is innocent or not, it's possible to make an reasonably accurate prediction of person's response. Sure, I don't really know PX, but I don't see anything wrong with trying to tackle his response and find some usable information.
*shrugs* It's unfortunate that absolutely no one seem to get my point.
At it's best it's meta-filled wifom, your question seems almost anti-productive to be asked because it's continuing the conversation in a direction absolutely useless to go in.
"Useless"...
*grumbles about how he'd personally see to it that the person who made up the term "wifom" be dismembered, same goes to whoever that started the trend of over-usage and mis-usage of that damned term in Mafia, might as well rename the entire game to WIFOM*
...okay, now you're just getting arrogant. It's kind of annoying.
Whaaat, it's just fact :V
Wouldn't mind voting Rev.
And reason for that is? :P
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Still waiting for that response, NeoSerela.
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Leaving that matter aside for a moment, I am growing increasingly frustrated with the accredition of my action as a specific "obvtown" act. I can construe a case that paints myself as scummy based on my actions, which by far should entirely discredit the idea that I am very town for it.
As I like to think people are as intelligent as I am, I want to think most people can see it; as a result, Roukanken is quickly ascending that staircase of scumminess, especially given the chainsaw-esque vibes I start getting from his zealous push on Neo almost onpar with mine.
The people I would most like to lynch, at this moment, are NeoSerela, Roukanken, FFMaster and reVelske. No particular order.
NeoSerela, I have explained. My suspicion of him is lowering somewhat due to his dogged perseverance in going for me. I still obviously frown at the eD1 sentiments, but earlyDay1 and he correctly diagnoses that provoking a reaction is exactly what I had in mind. If he can actually properly explain why I am scummy beside "misrep" (a fairly easy to thing to say if you never clarify what you actually meant) and "tunnel" (I have two targets, you have two targets, joke's on you), I would likely feel lots better.
Roukanken, as mentioned before. I like being guarded, but I'd like to see it done at night, and by doctors. Rather than by daylight, by people I can't be sure of as Town. :( Sorry Rou, I still love you. But this post (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,7634.msg483122.html#msg483122) actually makes him talk condemning of PX but... well, his only comment re: PX before that was "start contributing". The tone reads to me as "I suspected him all along", and makes me wary. I can see a case on him.
FFMaster has, aptly, done nothing much on D1. He declares that he finds Neo scummy (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,7634.msg482269.html#msg482269), but isn't too sure. I dislike cop outs like that. He presents his jokevote as remaining on PX as due to PX being scummier still, and today he says the push on PX is "not the greatest". Mrf.
I also dislike how he came into the day prodding people and asking about WIFOM speculations (analysing a death is WIFOM speculations), and then rams into reVelske for... prodding people. Right.
ReVelske I want to lynch because being teh first to get him Daylynched would be a cool title to have. :V
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@Roukanken
IT DOES NOT COME OUT OF NOWHERE. AT SOME POINT SOMEONE HAS TO TAKE A NON SERIOUS VOTE SERIOUSLY IN ORDER FOR US TO MOVE OUT OF RVS, AND THE SOONER WE DO IT THE SOONER WE GET TO SERIOUS DISCUSSION.
I have no idea why I need to make this obvious, because from where I'm standing it's common sense.
That 'non serious vote' comes out of nowhere! That's what I've been getting at the entire time!
Because scumhunting is better than defense? Prove a better case on someone else and you don't need to waste time and words explaining why a case on you is inferior to your own case? And again THE FACT HE STAYED SILENT INSTEAD OF CONTRIBUTING TO DISCUSSION AND MOVING US OUT OF THIS BARD/NEO BULLSHIT IS WHAT I HATE SO MUCH.
You have not 'proven' anything. And of course you have not really scumhunted in my opinion; other than agreeing with Bard's case and placing him on a throne because of RVS you only pointed out the absence of NeoSerela, which does not hold true with his newest post. Other than that, you have merely sat by and waited, which is why at least addressing the case on you would have been helpful.
---
@reVelske:
I'm me while PX is PX. His little 'bah post' does not help either town or scum, so I don't believe in taking that as a valid reason. I would have personally said nothing, but that has nothing to do with him. But I assume that's not your main meat for the case against PX.
Just a question, but could you reiterate your case against PX? From what I could glean they are in this post (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,7634.msg483062.html#msg483062) and his lack of good content. Do you think that his last post helped him much?
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Well, considering how I see this Rouk+Bard vs Neo+PX thing to be completely pointless, no, nothing has changed, especially seeing how he kinda just went and dropped it all with "Okay, I see your charge against Neo now" a few posts later.
And honestly, I don't even remember my thing against him from Day One without looking at my post. All I know is that whatever the heck it was, there has been nothing yet that'd throw it out of the window. Yes, it's tunnel vision, at least I know when to put my foot down and push for a lynch when it's needed.
And you'd be surprised how much faith I place behind the whole "Wail of the Impending Death" (woo i like that name) theory, call me crazy, call me shallow sighted, (don't call me WIFOM though) I care not. At least I don't think backwards like some people. (eg. Neo, FFM)
Besides, he SHOULD have died, it's only fitting for us to help him meet the fate he was destined for.
I think we should all state the final time we will be available to read/post before the Day End, how many hours before day end would work, just to give people a sense of urgency and for us all to know exactly when and where we should be putting our foot down. Unless, of course, you will be available all the way up till day end.
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Okay, with that last post, I'm ready to get rid of re:Velske
He's not taking good stances, he's just ignoring all the other cases, sticking to a wagon on me, not really defending himself, prodding everyone, and he already sees me as scum. He's doing nothing but trying to get me lynched at all cost. Hell, he doesn't even remember why he has a wagon on me, he's just trying to push it.
##Unvote
(Yes, I voted Rou earlier, but you didn't see it)
##Vote: reVelske
And yes, I'll be here for a couple of hours leading to the end of the day in case something happens.
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What's there to defend?
And what's so scummy about trying everything I can to get a specific player lynched? Especially it's one that hardly even contributes and spent the entire Day Two pretty much saying and doing nothing.
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Okay then.
Well, the three I would want to lynch Roukanken, PX and FFMaster today, in that order. If it was between Serela and a No Lynch, I would also go with Serela.
Roukanken, I have already stated many times that he has not been very original with his case and has shown very little critical thinking and questioning regarding Serela's posts and such. Bardiche, in comparison, has taken a wide view in his recent posts and actually responded to what PX and Serela said. This active lurking to me is far scummier than any of the other two's newbie mistakes.
PX is also bad for his rather absurd jumps between votes (what happened to Roukanken?) and having very little reasoning to back it up; his last vote on reVelske is plainly an OMGUS and smells like a bandwagon hop, especially after Serela professed his willingness to vote too. I was alright with him before that reVelske jump due to an original (yet flawed view) of the Roukanken case but apparently he doesn't put much importance into votes, so... Also has that 'everyone is out to get me' mentality, which is not a good attitude for the mafia player.
FFMaster is quite bad too for not really saying out his views on the main wagons and having only one original contribution, the reVelske case (which does not hold up). But making that reVelske case takes guts, which seems slightly town since scum could just easily jump on one of the two bandwagons then (e.g Roukanken and Serela). He really needs to back it up though.
I'm not willing to lynch Serela proactively due to me feeling good about him with relation to his opinions/defense post and its continuity with the posts of the previous day. But that post has its problems, as Bard pointed out, and some tacked on bits (like the reVelske part). His stances also seem to materialize from his defenses without much of a connection. If it comes down to it, however, I will hammer...
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Vote count
PX: reVelske
Neo: Roukan. Bardiche
Roukan: Affinity
reVelske: FFMaster. PX
Not voting: NeoSerela, Doll
8 alive, 5 votes to lynch.
Just over 16 hours remain.
Neo's vote didn't count because he's a derp.
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Ah! Well, I'm gonna hopefully take a nap for three hours now, then probably vote sometime after I wake up but don't be surprised if I don't vote since I'm not sure I'll wake up in three hours...
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I don't see a problem unless you are capable of sleeping for 15 hours.
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Oh~ you be surprised, but apparently not today . *yawn*
Anyway, I'm not quite sure of who to vote for but I think I'll go with Roukanke. I feel, how do you say it, he's trying a too hard in his defense of Bardiche? Anyway, that kinda get my suspicion up, so...
##Vote: Roukanke
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Vote count
PX: reVelske
Neo: Roukan. Bardiche
Roukan: Affinity, Doll
reVelske: FFMaster. PX
Not voting: NeoSerela
8 alive, 5 votes to lynch.
10 hours remain.
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Nnonono, wrong vote, come on PX wagon, there are free candies! Or eh, punch and pie!
Blurgh, I do not find the case against Rouk to be of any substance whatsoever, but seeing how everyone has him on their lynchable lists, this may very well be the only viable option to get any lynch at all. Oh well, so be it.
##vote: Roukanken
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* -n
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I'll not be swayed by you offer of can-oooo~ Pie~
##Unvote
##Vote: PX
Nah, kidding :P
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* and after an ##unvote of course.
Ah heck let's just try that again.
##unvote
##vote: Roukan
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I'll probably return before deadline. Current move on Roukanken seems premature unless you can't make it for deadline. Argue why we should lynch your top choice instead.
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Well, in my situation there isn't much to do other than ##Unvote, ##Vote: ReV. Haven't paid much attention to him all game, can't say I have that much opinion on him either way other than that he's something of a jerk at times and seems to borrow a lot from other cases, but if it's a case of 'I know I'm Town, I don't know if he's Town, so I'd rather he died since a Neo lynch is never going to happen at this rate'.
I still find Neo's refusal to offer more than an explanation for an RVS vote he made about a week of RL time ago infuriating. I'm not sure why I'm taking flak for, and I quote, 'active lurking', when Neo got away scot free with disappearing and offering no words at all when things started getting rough.
Apologies if this is sort of half-hearted. I'll admit all the venom that's been passing around is not helping my enthusiasm in the slightest. -_-
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*shrugs* Understandable, seeing how I'm the second most wanted lynch at the moment. TBH, it matters little to me at this stage. I really do not believe you are scum, in which case it's gonna be LYLO tomorrow either way.
And I've haven't borrowed anything really :S
i'm still wanting a PX lynch though. Anyone? Come on folks, do what should've been done yesterday, have a little faith in me.
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Rou, your vote is not counted.
i'm still wanting a PX lynch though. Anyone? Come on folks, do wheat should've been done yesterday, have a little faith in me.
And honestly, I don't even remember my thing against him from Day One without looking at my post. All I know is that whatever the heck it was, there has been nothing yet that'd throw it out of the window. Yes, it's tunnel vision, at least I know when to put my foot down and push for a lynch when it's needed.
Also
Besides, he SHOULD have died, it's only fitting for us to help him meet the fate he was destined for.
Could have, should have, would have, didn't. :dealwithit:
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Just remembered about mafia before falling asleep an hour later then I should be. While I kind of wanted to simply go to sleep and avoid posting with nothing but a votechange when I should and do have more stuff to be saying, I will choke a bitch if there's another no lynch, so here I am to
##Vote:Roukanke[Z]
sleeples time, totally gonna zzz through first class period tomorrow yay
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Okay, a lynch is better than none right now, so
##Unvote
Ready to hammer if it reaches towards the deadline. Still got 3 hours left.
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Vote count
Neo: Roukan. Bardiche
Roukan: Affinity, Doll, reVelske, NeoSerela
reVelske: FFMaster
Not voting: PX
8 alive, 5 votes to lynch.
Roukan is at L-1
2 hours and 35 minutes remain.
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##Unvote
##Vote Roukan
It's going to be done anyway, why not now? I'll bring the case on reV the next day. Sigh.
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It's going to be done anyway, why not now? I'll bring the case on reV the next day. Sigh.
When some members still haven't had a chance to speak since early yesterday?
And why leave your case for "next day" when you CAN do it now? What happens if the vile villain that is me decides to murder you tonight to silence you?
Frigging hell with this game and people who thinks bloody backwards.
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Hammer, shut up
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Silence, you vile creature. Until GM actually performs the hammering announcement, talks should still very much be allowed, all voting actions are forbidden though.
Well come on, FFM, please amuse us with your "case" against me, whilst there is time.
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Vote count
Neo: Roukan. Bardiche
Roukan: Affinity, Doll, reVelske, NeoSerela, FFMaster
Not voting: PX
8 alive, 5 votes to lynch.
Nyan nyan nyaaa~~
Everyone raises a leg at the Pissing Wall. Yet Roukan didn't.
How suspicious! Only a pussy would not raise a leg. Wait, pussies are cats!
Roukan - Toilet Cat - Lynched Day 2
24 hours for your night actions. If you don't send one, then you did nothing.
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......Well, that was interesting....
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Doll the Jailer Dog slept in a bad place and got shredded overnight.
6 alive, 4 votes to lynch.
72 hours remain.
Day opening early for my convenience.
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Doll?
That's just... stupid.
Anyhow, guess I'm wrong about Roukan, the lack of motivation at the end of Day Two kinda had me sold. Oh well.
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##Vote: NeoSerela
Why helo thar, Neo, let's get back to this song and dance until I get answers to my questions finally!
reVelske, your case if you'd please.
FFMaster, let's see that case of yours. You still avoided talking about anyone of consequence both D1 and D2, I'd like to see that change.
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My case? On what? I don't really have a case on anyone yet, will need to read through entire day one and two to study Roukan's choices of actions, understandably it's only 6 pages worth of nonsense, but that's still effort nonetheless.
Unfortunately, everything in this game seem to work completely backwards in terms of logic from my perspective, which I suppose is to be expected from a crowd I have no good judgment of characters on, I'll really have to rethink on everything before I try have a go at anyone again, not that it looks like I'll need to do much prodding anymore.
I still want PX dead though. Hm, might as well.
##vote: PX
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I don't like the way the Roukanken wagon was concluded yesterday at all. Around half the final wagon didn't really have any reasons to commit themselves to the Rou wagon, and just hopped on for convenience, making scum just as likely to be on the latter parts of the wagon as not. But from what I can glean, reVelske is probably town due to being the main counter wagon to Rou, and Serela gets points for the late swingvote onto Roukanken than on reVelske, which is quite fully consistent with his past long post. That leaves Bardiche, FFMaster, and PX who I feel should be the main targets today.
The one most on my mind now is PX. He makes a case against Roukanken here (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,7634.msg486043.html#msg486043), which is more solid than most of his mafia career (but not by itself), but here he drops it completely for a trifle of nonsense and OMGUS (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,7634.msg487185.html#msg487185). It really seems like he wanted to pretend to bus Rou, saw a good alternative wagon, and threw his weight there, only returning with a commitment to hammer. So, for dropping a case on Roukanken for a far weaker case, I think he should be lynched today.
##Vote: PX
By now, I know nothing of FFMaster, except that he started the reVelske wagon which should have never come to light and ignored the Roukanken wagon completely until hammering him at the end of the day. This already puts him a close second to PX.
I'm also still annoyed at Bard trying to prove that his RVS play is superior at a time when a mafia has been lynched and when there is bandwagon analysis to be done. Of course, not voting Rou here at this point in the bandwagon (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,7634.msg487168.html#msg487168) in a wait for ineffectual questions despite original points against him is implicating, and makes his Neo chase look like an excuse for a vote for the entirety of the game. But I would put him lower than the above two for a good range of opinions and general involvement in the game.
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EDIT: Skip that 'RVS' thing for Bardiche. I realize it's about something different now. But still, I'm wary of his chase of Neo for D1 and D2 which started with the RVS thing instead of the others, which seems like a easy place to rest a vote.
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Uh... we just lost the Jailer. This pretty much means LyLo on Day 4. Whoever the tracker is, you better find out who the scum is. Anyways, I'll be rereading this and coming up things later.
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Really dislike reVelske. Basically, he's saying he has no case on anyone, might as well have PX die. Just because I want to.
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Maybe if NeoSerela would finally answer all the inquiries and explain his point of view, rather than me giving him a free pass. I don't care Rou was on him as well, scumbussing isn't absurd.
That I found Neo scummier at the time but still found fault with Roukanken does not mean I should've switched votes. Serela's input this game has been nothing but empty promises, dodging of my questions, and spouting a whole lot of nonsense until he finally votes Roukanken, saying "if there's another no lynch I'll choke a bitch", implying he didn't even think Rou was scum.
That it was the swing vote is irrelevant to me - as you note yourself, I expressed interest in the Rou case enough that you thought I'd vote him. All it took was two of PX, FFMaster and I to agree to lynch him, and my vote could be counted on from implication. Not posting at all would've made him a heavy lurker, not voting Roukanken would've bitten him in the ass because Town'd collaborate to lynch Roukanken.
His options were limited and I certainly don't intend to lend him free credit for it.
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...I wasn't going to post right now because I'm too lazy to reread atm, but Bard's post is just making me askdfadsg.
implying he didn't even think Rou was scum.
Except my previous post I explicitly stated Rou was one of my top two suspects?
empty promises
I may not have been posting very much this game, but I don't recall ever saying I would provide something and then not doing so.
not voting Roukanken would've bitten him in the ass because Town'd collaborate to lynch Roukanken.
At least for me, most of the 3~4 remaining hours were at like midnight, and you were the only person who was surely going to show up with Rou at L-2 still; having another no-lynch happen just because people were not present would not have been surprising at all.
Anyway, might as well post a little bit more right now even if I'm not doing a reread over the topic yet. As Affinity stated, Rev being the main counterwagon against Rou means he likely is not scum. Rev just seems to be a big pile of playstyle differences that, while I don't like his play this game, oh well. I feel Affinity is practically obvtown. That leaves Bard/PX/FFM, two of which are newbies so sigh this has a decent chance of being irritating to my mind. I'll get around to rereading them at some point. Probably tomorrow.
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Ok, right now... here are my thoughts.
First off, the Doll kill. I'm sure that Doll targetted me. From his posts, he was wary of me. Wary of me enough to throw a vote on me. Considering I didn't get lynched, I *PROBABLY* would have been targetted from his ability. If I was scum and he targetted me, there would have been NO NIGHT KILL, unless Doll was lying about having that "bad vibe" about me, and targetted someone else, which wouldn't have benefitted town at all. Then again, I might be analysing it wrong. This is just from my perspective, and trying to put myself in Doll's shoes with what little he gave us.
Now, everyone else
Affinity - likely townie, since he started pushing the Rou lynch from D1. Unless that was a really ballsy move, I'd probably say 99% townie.
Bardiche - I still feel that he is townie, just not as much from before. I can see what Affinity means when ending RVS is neither a town or a scum move, but it still benefits town more than scum imo.
NeoSarela - I now think that Affinity is right, and that the case on Neo is really just a dispute between philosophies in RVS play. Still wary of him though, and he has been lurking a lot.
PX - same as Neo, but seems to actually be trying not to lurk.
reVelske - I think he is just trying to push others into a negative light to avoid attention on himself. I don't like the way he plays at all. I think he is still pushing for PX lynch because nobody will blame him for it. People will just go "meh, another noob died" and ignore it and never bring it up again. Feels exactly like what scum would do.
##vote reVelske
Hopefully, people won't rush this though. We still have loads of time.
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Really dislike reVelske. Basically, he's saying he has no case on anyone, might as well have PX die. Just because I want to.
No, I said I was (and still am) procrastinating, but it's not like you are doing any more than me anyways, so silence thyself, whelp!
reVelske - I think he is just trying to push others into a negative light to avoid attention on himself. I don't like the way he plays at all. I think he is still pushing for PX lynch because nobody will blame him for it. People will just go "meh, another noob died" and ignore it and never bring it up again. Feels exactly like what scum would do.
Ookee? Really?
First of all, what negative light? Care to elaborate?
Secondly, tch, I don't play mafia to hold hands with people and act out an episode of Teletubbies, it's most unfortunate that you find the minor provocation and aggression to not be to your likings. buuuut... tough.
"You think" people won't blame me for attacking PX? Exactly what scum would do? Haha, oh please.
To be quite honest, I actually expected to be showered with attacks for today, mainly due to my willingness to accept and trust Roukan during the dual-wagon situation whilst still urging for a PX lynch, and for the fact that me and Roukan have had minimal interaction through out Day One and Day Two... I'm actually quite disappointed since I was ready for a fight, and all I get is a pair of yapping puppies :V. And no no, I'm not complaining!
And your reason for me voting PX seem rather far-fetched, I can give you a list of more plausible reasons one could deduce from my vote for PX, it seems that you just conveniently picked the most incriminating one to reason your vote.
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*whistles impatiently*
Soooo.... anyways, was that it, FFM? That was your "case" against me you mentioned at the end of day two? Or is there anything else? Anything of any substance?
Finally got around to reading through all previous pages, FFMaster seem like the odd one out with his minimal contribution, lack of consistency and his complete lack of interaction with Roukan aside from the hammer.
I'm beginning to believe PX to be a townie, mostly due to his interaction and attack on Roukan, what Affinity said could very well be case but I'd like to think I have genuinely pissed him off enough that he'd want to get me voted off every chance he gets, he does seem impulsive enough to play like that.
Dunno about Bard, his action has been consistent and very much pro-town, I did have my doubts about him due to his lack of attention to anyone or anything else aside from Neo despite how pointless the entire RvS argument was between them, buuuut his defense for it seemed good enough and he has since been making good cases on others. His lack of reaction towards Roukan's constant support is slightly suspect though, there were about two instances of wrist-slapping that I can remember, but that's that.
No real change for opinion about anyone else, still see nothing solid with Neo's entire case against Bard through out the past two days, and I'm still willing to write that off as being confused or a matter of perspective. Both his and Affinity's interaction with Roukan make me want to believe they are not aligned with him.
With that said.
##UNVOTE
##VOTE: FFMaster
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woops did not bold the #unvote, let me try that again.
#UNVOTE
#VOTE: FFMASTER
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To be quite honest, I actually expected to be showered with attacks for today, mainly due to my willingness to accept and trust Roukan during the dual-wagon situation whilst still urging for a PX lynch, and for the fact that me and Roukan have had minimal interaction through out Day One and Day Two...
I can't use that argument, since I am also accountable for it.
And you didn't try to pull apart my townie claim? Pull it apart to show that your vote is good please.
Also, I don't understand why Doll was the night kill, at all. I 100% expected that Affinity would be killed, due to being golden townie.
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Also, you need to realise people sleep.
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But yeah, it seems like you were too quick to cast a vote on me without attack my townie claim at all. People would have normally pulled that apart before voting. Trying to paint me in a worse light now eh? Or maybe you already know its true?
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I sleep too, AND I work 8 hours a day (well, "work"), so... pfft.
And oh yeah, your town claim, haha what? You actually need someone to break that non-sense? I'm sure you can easily do that yourself. Anyhow, it was rather arbitrary, why are you so eager to defend your alignment anyways? Especially seeing how no-one was even giving a crap about you. Paranoia much?
And you cannot really read a newbie's choice of action, he might have tried to protect someone with his power rather than roleblocking a possible scum, especially seeing how uncertain he was about you or anyone.
Doll lynch was an arbitrary one, only reason for it would be to take out someone who would provide absolutely no information whatsoever for the town.
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I claimed it now because it is better to claim now than to claim while I was under fire. And you seem to have no problem trying to read my choice of actions, even though everyone here knows I'm a newbie as well. But we'll see how this game turns out. It is the others after all who need to be convinced to lynch me.
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Before I came under direct fire*
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@FFMaster:
Your townie 'claim' isn't very verifiable. Even long-time players tend to choose jailer targets different from the people they have been openly suspicious of, and it's not reliable by much. And it's up to the jailers' discretion to jail town or scum too, so I don't see where you're coming from.... You should be the one updating your case on reVelske since he's not going for PX anymore (which was one of your reasons for going after him from D2), not just sitting around to wait for people to have opinions on it or your 'claim'.
---
@Bardiche:
The reason why I didn't like you not voting Roukanken at that point was because you said that your suspicion on Serela was lowering due to his dogged perseverance on you and that you would change your vote to Rou if Serela clarified his case, which frankly seemed like a set-up to conveniently change votes if the bandwagon on Rou grew. It didn't feel as if you felt Neo was scummier at the time. This is debatable, though.
Also, I think it's a little downright unfair to say that Neo has been posting complete 'nonsense' the entire game; his defenses against your RVS thingy were quite competent and were ones I agreed with, and his longpost towards the end of D2 did make sense and telegraphed a willingness to vote Roukanken, even if that suspicion came mainly from his defense (which is fishy). Also, his swingvote on Roukanken did not come out of nowhere.
I agree with you that his vote on you needs some explaining, but it hardly warrants the misrep given, and it seems like a rather huge inconsistency when compared to the previous post (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,7634.msg487168.html#msg487168) you made, where you said that your suspicion on NeoSerela was 'lowering somewhat' and that you would consider changing your vote if Serela clarified his case against you. Given that Serela hardly did anything except hammer in between these two posts, I find this change strange. What happened?
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##Unvote
Remember, Day 2 was basically an extended Day 1, so you can't blame people too much for wagon jumping, as many said Day 1 Lynch > No Lynch
That said, FFMaster definitely has a questionable town claim. Rev looks better to me now since he finally cooked up a case. Neo so far did have a case on Rou, but now that he's dead, he's been doing nothing but defending himself the entire game. And lurking. So far, Neo and FFMaster look the most likely scum.
HOWEVER! After taking Cirno's Perfect Math ClassAfter doing some number crunching, I see a No Lynch as the best action for Town today. With 6 people, it'll take a nice 4 people majority to get a lynch. Of those 4 on the wagon, one of them must definitely be scum if we mislynch. We lost our jailer, so that handicaps us a lot. However, we still have the tracker. It would be better for us to leave 6 people alive. On Day 4, we'd have 5 people and avoid MyLo then. It'll also give the tracker another day to find the scum. Then we can afford a Mislynch on Day 4 to lead to a 3 man LyLo, where we'll have the best odds of finding the scum. However, if a convincing enough case comes up, I'm all for lynching. No more RVS shenanigan shenanigans.
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I claimed it now because it is better to claim now than to claim while I was under fire. And you seem to have no problem trying to read my choice of actions, even though everyone here knows I'm a newbie as well. But we'll see how this game turns out. It is the others after all who need to be convinced to lynch me.
We all "read" people's actions, of course, but yours just happens to based on a little too much assumptions, and we don't base our entire argument/defense on something as insubstantial as that.
And I have no idea about your "newbie"-ness, especially considering how I know you've actually played Mafia at least once or twice, which should be more than enough really.
Of those 4 on the wagon, one of them must definitely be scum if we mislynch.
Challenging the scum to a game of WIFOM?
However, we still have the tracker.
Is that a fact? I have no idea of the game setup, I thought it'd be somewhat random, or is there actually a guaranteed setup to this?
It would be better for us to leave 6 people alive.
*sighs* Yes yes, no lynch would be the best option right now of course, but you could've at least waited a little so some pressuring on players can be done, now people are just gonna sit on their asses and take it easy.
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Vote count
Neo: Bardiche
PX: Affinity
reVelske: FFMaster
FFMaster: reVelske
Not voting: PX, NeoSerela
6 alive, 4 vote to lynch.
Just over 25 hours left.
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Is my assumption that Doll targeted me really that bad? I honestly only see 2 cases:
1) Doll targeted Affinity to protect him
2) Doll targeted me to see if the night kill was prevented.
Then again, looking back, Doll wasn't very sure at all. Maybe he saw my hammer on Rou and confused him even more? Maybe my assumption was pretty farfetched then. I want to hear all of your opinions on what Doll would have done though.
As for reVelske, maybe I've been wrong about him. Maybe like Neo/Bard, me and reV have just been at odds due to different playstyles. I really dislike the way he plays, but lynching someone due to that isn't the right way to go.
*sighs* Yes yes, no lynch would be the best option right now of course, but you could've at least waited a little so some pressuring on players can be done, now people are just gonna sit on their asses and take it easy.
I don't agree with you there. If a newbie can work this out, any other experienced player (everyone except me) could work that out in 2 seconds as well. This was what I mean by painting PX in a bad light. I might not be able to pass an english(or as me and Baity call it, bullshit) exam, but I can tell that PX said it to show that he wants to benefit town, and show that he is capable of making decisions and not follow people around, unlike me.
##Unvote
Sigh, I'm not sure if I should do this at all... oh well.
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I keep on NeoSerela, Affinity, because he's the scummiest person. Suspicions abating somewhat does not scot free make.
That aside, the recent development of reVelske VS FFMaster is somewhat amusing, but also a little weird. FFMaster's absurd defence of "contest my townie claim" is... well, absurd. I don't really know what inspired him to do so at all, or why he wants conjecture about Doll's demise, or even uses it as leverage.
Whoever offed Doll is scum. Whatever reason they had is a mystery.
Current scummiest sentiment, though?
##Unvote
##Vote: PX
"Derp let's not use Town's strongest weapon". Really? The lynch is our strongest weapon. It gives us information and a shot at victory. If the tracker DIES, we'll have gambled our entire strategy on a shit-all moment praying for success from a power role. No, we're not going to do that. We'll take decisive action and move the game forward by our hands, not by the hands of scum in Who Lives and Who Dies. If we mislynch today, and it'll be MyLo, we can ALWAYS abstain tomorrow as necessary. But for now, I see no reason to hold our hand.
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PX using the No Lynch option in place of having a case on someone (and blaming others prior to this for not having one) is generally quite suspect. I'm okay with the suggestion of No Lynch (though I disagree with it), but still one must say who he suspects and who he does not. Furthermore, for every night that passes, scum has the opportunity to kill the tracker too, so that cancels the benefits out. Best to lynch and have a shot at winning. Him dropping his case on reV at the drop of the hat and saying that he will follow any other good case (why don't you make your own) is also very wishy washy. At least FFMaster seems marginally more consistent than PX, though they are responsible for the same sins.
Serela hasn't been here for two days, I realize.
And of course, Bard, your explanation is unsatisfactory, and changing to PX for the sole reason that he suggested No Lynch (why can't a newbie town do that) is also bad... Your play has been... weird to say the least.
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I'd rather go for a nonlynch on Day 3 than a nonlynch on Day 4. If we went for a mislynch on Day 3, and a non lynch on Day 4, we'd gain nothing between Day 4 and Day 5. And if we nonlynch on Day 3, we're free to go about on any case on Day 4, without fear of losing or holding back.
I dropped the case on reV because my whole case was on him going tunneled against me, with no case whatsoever. Now that he put a case on FFMaster, I don't see him as the scummiest.
However, Neo has been gone for... pretty much the entire Day 3.
However, with the way the game has been going, with the mass disappearances, weird playstyles, RVS arguments, eh... What's there to go against? Only things that stick out are Neo, who pretty much disappeared, and the people who jumped onto the Rou wagon, as said before half the people there had no reason to jump on other than to get a lynch off and get some information.
Fun Fact: With Bard voting me, I have officially had everyone in the game vote for me at one point or another.
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I am just generally confused about this whole game. I hoped it would get better after Day 1, but it seems to be not the case. With 0 experience on games that go past 1 day for me, I really have no idea what I am doing. And of course my defence is absurd. I don't actually know how to form a good argument at all, even if every piece of information was given to me.
I don't care about either option to lynch/not lynch. I can kind of see what PX is saying, but yes, the lynch is a powerful weapon. I don't have a good case on anyone really, and I won't be awake when the day ends. So, I have to work out a good vote in a couple of hours. If not, I'll just vote reV and that will be all.
I really fucked up bad. "Worst mafia player ever" says it all.
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Fuck this.
##Vote reVelske
I'll probably wake up to find out I was the town lynch. If so, good luck town. I have nothing of value to input. As I said a few hours ago, I fucked up bad.
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When the entirety of the game explodes in derp, Affinity, I just run with it. :V I play better when it's anonymafia.
People aren't really saying anything of substance. We have one massive, gigantic lurker who never really says anything and who had the weirdest D1 argument I've ever seen but no one wants to vote it, and the others are various levels of "meh" or "sorta townie" to me to the point that I can't see a scumteam beside Rou/Serela. PX's "Let's no lynch" is the only other scummy sentiment I've seen.
FFMaster's defence is absurd, but absurdity is not scummy by itself. I'd vote and lynch him for his terrible play that's really unhelpful, but the newbie pass still lends him some grace. This defeationist attitude is quickly changing my attitude to "Oh god let's just lynch him and get over it already", but I don't think he's scum so I don't wanna.
ReVelske's being an ass, but reasonable within said asshattery. Case on FFMaster is solid except of course he's going after the newbie but whatever.
In summation: derpherp
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Vote count
PX: Affinity, Bardiche
reVelske: FFMaster
FFMaster: reVelske
Not voting: PX, NeoSerela
6 alive, 4 vote to lynch.
90 minutes left.
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I agree with Bard about this game, it's all derp nothing to go with derp game.
Also, I saw Neo on so I'm waiting for him to say something, otherwise he's just actively lurking.
Closing Statement? Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ
Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ
Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ
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No Lynch was reached. Send in your actions within the next 24 hours.
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Bardiche - Old Dog - lived for too long and passed away N3
5 alive, 3 votes to lynch.
72 hours remain.
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I was reading through Affinity's posts and find him to be ob. town due to going after Rou first day, otherwise that would be super ridiculous bussing.
Meanwhile... Neo hasn't posted since a few hours after Day 3 started. What the hell? I thought you said you were going to post?
##Vote: Neo
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##Vote: Neo
I still don't totally buy this, but now that Bard is confirmed town, I'd like to believe that he hasn't spent majority of this game raising a shitstorm over nothing.
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That makes no sense reV. Why the hell would Neo kill Bard if it was going to incriminate him?
##vote reVelske
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I totally had a reason for lurking >: Ummm, although, mostly it was just "oh I'll post in an hour" *an hour later* "oooh I'll post in an hour" /repeat in combination with "I don't really have anything much to say anyway... :/". There's still no excuse for what I did, of course, since I didn't even PM Pesco like he said to do if you're gonna lurk :V
Anywaaaay. What why isn't Affinity the nightkill. I mean, I understood when there was still the Jailer out there, but now? Well, this makes things easier for me anyway. Nightkills this game don't make sense and I've accepted that fact by now (Otherwise I might start going "hmm" simply because :whyisn'taffinitydead: but isn't that kind of a silly argument?)
My feelings on Rev and Affinity haven't changed from yesterday; obvtown and swingvoter that makes him likely a town with massive playstyle differences. That leaves PX and FFM. And... we still have two lynches remaining! Whoop. I think PX is more likely scum then FFM, though. FFM seems... consistent, thinks logically for what I think his level of skill probably is, even though I don't agree with him I see how he is coming to his conclusions.
##Vote:PX
also because his D4 opening post of voting the superlurker and calling Affinity obvtown is sooper easy to do whether you're town or scum. It's like getting free candy. You don't have to do anything, it's just there for the taking.
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That makes no sense reV. Why the hell would Neo kill Bard if it was going to incriminate him?
Note that NK's often have nothing to do with the actual cases offered in the game. Anyone has an equal chance of killing Bard, and so this statement does not make any sense. Likewise, anyone has an equal chance of jailing you, not just Doll, etc. Heck, at this stage of the game, I'm not even sure why I'm not NK'ed yet.
I'm thirding my intention to vote Neo. Despite my moderate faith in his D1 and D2 actions, dropping back without doing anything at this stage of the game (or even asking for a replacement) is incriminating. Other than, I still think that PX is likely scum for that vote change from Roukanken to reVelske, nearly leading it to a lynch on D2 and all of a sudden discounting it latter when it was clear that there would be no one willing to vote him. FFMaster is still somewhat suspect, but continued votes on... reVelske makes it look as if he has some semblance of stance. Also, reVelske seems to be the towniest of the lot, with the most solid opinions, but still, all the other willing voters on Rou are more or less gone, and with only one lynch so far, everything... seems like a crapshoot in my opinion.
Ninja: Oh, Neo showed up. I'm weary of catching scum by elimination though, and I sort of want to see why PX is scum instead of why everyone else is town (D4 opening post... is commone and okay). But I sympathize with the vote due to the reasons above, and so...
##Vote: PX
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[10:27] <FFMaster> @choose PX or Neo
[10:27] <@Keine-chan> FFMaster: I choose...PX! ^_^V
[10:27] <FFMaster> ok, he dies
I don't think I can convince anybody of anything, let alone lynching the person who everyone thinks as the "most townie". Yay for being here only for a vote. I honestly see them both as equally scummy.
##Unvote
##Vote PX
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You... are such a dick. TOWNIE DEAD, have fun in LyLo
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Also, can anyone who is dead pm me the link to the graveyard? It's 1:30 AM for Pesco
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I didn't get one. There probably isn't any.
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Well that's nice.
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Eh, the forum was dead just before I went to bed so I couldn't post, and now this? Fuck it, FFM, no amount of "I AM NOOB" Is gonna save you from a lynch tomorrow, even if you ARE town, you need to be taught a bloody lesson about NOT hammering crap.
FGSFDS.
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This is actually pissing me off quite a bit, TWICE have you hammered long before end of the day when some people have not had the opportunity to air their final view, and you've spent the last two days repeatedly telling us how frigging noob you are, either by stating that "fact" yourself or acting it out in the most blatant way. This is actually no longer a case of being "noob" (actually, I haven't seen a real display of noobiness from you, Doll? Now there is a real noob, no offense of course), I did not want to say it so bluntly, but your actions have just been out right STUPID.
People are never as stupid as you'd like to think they are, or as much as they'd like you to think. That's just a personal view, a mindset I've always used in Mafia games, and it worked pretty damn well for me so far.
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Save the raging and other stuff for postgame.
PX - Mangy Dog - Lynched D4
24 hours for your actions. I'll be opening early if the actions are in.
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3 NeoSerela - Missing Dog - Permanently missing from N4
The activity has not been satisfactory. You have 72 hours for LyLo only.
3 alive, 2 votes to lynch.
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Gave the thread a quick read through just to make sure I haven't missed anything, and well, I haven't. All my reasons for FFM has already been provided, so...
##VOTE: FFMaster
If I am somehow wrong about this, then very well played to Affinity, you deserved the win TBH.
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Affintiy is scum
#Vote Affinity
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Well, I will die anyway, so gg Affinity, nice Day 1 opener.
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##Vote Affinity
fixing, just in case rev wants to win.
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There's always this thing called roleclaim, if you are hinting at that.
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Yes, I am tracker. It should be pretty obvious by now.
Telling who I targeted won't benefit me at all. But oh well, I haven't lied once in this game. I'm not going to start now.
N1 - Target huh what
N2 - Target reVelske
N3 - Target Bard
N4 - Target reVelske
None did anything. Remember that I was paranoid about you being scum. Fucking stupid on my part, I should have calmed down. Also, I targeted Bard due to his claim that not lynching was a bad idea, which I disagreed with, and made me suspicious of him. I should have targeted Affinity like my gut told me that time. Either way, I deserve to lose.
It really just was a difference in playstyle =/
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Paranoid enough to think that Doll targeted me when he flipped jailkeeper. If he didn't vote me or flip town, I would have instantly trusted you. I depend on role powers too much. But I can't do much else, like form a decent argument, or even think properly.
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flip jailkeeper*
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...you targeted me twice? What dog are you anyways?
And WHY THE FUCK didn't you roleclaim straight off the bat today?
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Because I am an idiot and didn't think about that. I'd blame it on just waking up but that would be a terrible excuse.
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I told you, I was paranoid about you being scum. Notice how I started days by lynching you no matter what?
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Roleclaim your dog.
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What? I just did. I am tracker. What more do you want?
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*facepalms*
You see, a claim would be so much more convincing if you are specific about what dog you are.
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http://mafiascum.net/wiki/index.php?title=JK9
Look on the list. See the term Tracker? That is who I am. This game setup was mentioned before the game even started. I can choose a person, and it tells who they targeted. That is it. Is that what you wanted?
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I cannot quote the PM, but it says specifically that I am the Tracker.
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Wait, I remember you asking about whether the setup was premade, and now, there is your answer.
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*facepalm x 2*
Your role PM should also contain something about what dog/cat you are, you don't have to quote your PM, but you can claim what kind of dog you are.
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I'll give you my reasoning for targetting you. I thought that either Neo or Affinity would die. If Affinity was scum, I fully expected Neo to die since you suspect me so much. If either Neo or you were scum, you could kill off Affinity, since he was the smartest player. Either way, I would get lynched on this day. So my only hope was to target you, since I 100% expected you to survive, to lynch me out.
FAKE EDIT:
I am a special dog, I can do more than just post and vote. I can follow the scent of another dog (or cat) at night and see where they marked their territory. I am the tracker. I win when all cats have been driven out.
I have no idea if this is breaking the rules, but this is my only chance I'll get.
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targeting you N4*, besides paranoia.
Either way, by targetting you N4, I would then know 100% who was what. That was everything I saw from my point of view.
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Fair enough, now you see, even if you said all that in your own words rather than quoting the entire PM, it would've been perfectly convincing.
BUT, fuck it, Affinity can have his win considering he would've won if he was present, "winning" and "losing" hardly matters at the point, Affinity played well TBH, rest of us haven't (you in particular), so as said, he deserved a victory to a well played game.
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Well, then, since you have given up, I may as well fuck around.
##Unvote
##Vote reVelske/b]
Affinity, take the win and break reVelske's "no day lynched" title at the same time =)
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I will at least keep my 0% win rate title.
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I have no idea what kind of shenanigans FFMaster is trying to pull (kind of a stupidly brilliant way to get reVelske lynched like that), but he is lying and scum. I'm the real tracker.
N1: I targeted Roukanken, who targeted huhwhat
N2: I targeted Bardiche with no result.
N3: I targeted Serela with no result.
N4: I targeted FFMaster, who turned up scum.
##Vote: FFMaster
A short post before I have to go, but I would say that FFMaster's actions are absurd. Why did he need to target reVelske twice when one scum was already dead on N2? The remaining scum HAD to give a NK on N2, and thus if reVelske turned up alright on N2, there's no need to investigate on N4. Other than the pressed perseverance on reVelske, I notice that there is absolutely no link between his investigation results and voting patterns, while for me (I somehow did with Roukanken). And of course, lastly, as scum, I had no reason to vote Roukanken that early on D2; FFMaster, had, in hindsight, reason to vote ReVelske... I'm not sure what's going on, but, ignoring all this emotional talk going on, FFMaster is scum. reVelske, you should wait for claims before making judgments too...
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Sigh. That's what I would have done. Actually, maybe...
##Unvote
##Vote: reVelske
This game is screwed up. Mafia is certainly not for emotional people.
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Completely irrelevant since FFM quoted his role PM word for word. Modkilled.
GDIF.
The terribleness of this game from both sides is just unspeakable.
I will however condone any perceived dickish behaviour on reVelske's part because it was very warranted.
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Wow, this game was supremely messed up. The nightkill choices were incredibly baffling (I'm still not sure why I died, my d1 was pretty bleh) and everything after my death pretty much gave me a headache to read (especially d3 onwards). At d4 I just kind of stopped trying when it came to reading the thread.
Kudos to Affinity for being right about Rou all game at least, I think that's more than what anybody else can say for themselves. Also I liked reVelske and found his dickishness amusing, wouldn't mind seeing him play again some day.
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You don't get it. Affinity is scum.
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FFM. What the hell? I just... Have no words. The unbelievable amount of stupidity here is... What.
ReV. Were you just leading FFM on near the end there or did you really have no idea how to make yourself clearer? ...I honestly don't think I can even blame you if you WERE just waiting to see how long it was before he realized what you were trying to say.
My mind may be deliberately filtering out everything from earlier in the game but the end alone was so utterly stupid that I just... This is unbelievable.
Note that this is someone who doesn't even PLAY Mafia who is looking upon the stupidity here and going "What." <_<
Ninja: I agree with huhwhat completely on nightkill choices being baffling. WHY would anyone bother to NK Doll? Doll was a complete non-threat and didn't look like he'd be contributing anything. Just... Ahaha what?
EDIT: ...Ahahaha WHAT. Affinity was scum? Seriously? That... Ahaha. Which means... FFM was town... Ahahahaha
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Oh. <_< You could have actually said that somewhere.
Well, that... doesn't change much, really. Except kudos to him for bussing Rou instead of being right, whatever.
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I figured Rev was scum, but I guess he wasn't.
FFMaster could use some help with Mafia play techniques. Entire game was a bit derp for me so I gave up halfway D2. Up until that point I'd hoped to get ANYTHING out of NeoSerela but unfortunately no, nothing ever came. After that point I decided to just go screw it because everyone was being lurkerish and if anything kills my interest it's people posting little, saying little and just waiting around.
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GJ Affinity, I just knew you were the scum. Also, nice job super ridiculously bussing roukanken. You didn't throw him in front of a bus, you threw him in front of an 18 wheeler going 80, then threw the corpse into the Gulf of Mexico to plug up the oil spill.
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I don't quite remember but I think Affinity was one of the person I was going to use my ability on but wasn't sure if it'll stop scum from killing so I protected Rev instead...I died the same night.
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This was a failure.
I'm making a note here, CLUSTERFUCK.
It's hard to overstate my seething anger.
Calm the hell down, guys.
It's only a game. For real. It's true.
When you scream to prove your point
It only brings out more hate
When you know it's banned to give your role PM out
Keep it down, don't pretend that there's a shadow of doubt
It was in the freaking rules
Now we bring out stabby tools
So the Master won't stay still alive
Kudos to Affinity for being right about Rou all game at least, I think that's more than what anybody else can say for themselves.
I'll tell you a secret.
Affinity is, in fact, a cat.
I got bussed without a hint of warning.
For not contributing
When there's wasn't a-nything to say.
As I died it hurt because
I was so happy for him!
Now his superbussing brought him out in the end
But it's not a plan that I would want to defend
With the tracker on the loose
FF could have cooked his goose
But now Aff is the one still alive
Time for hiatus?
There's too much emotion in the game
Lurking isn't helping matters either.
Maybe till Christmas
We can relax and take a break
Maybe then we'll be around
And start this madness again!
MVP for Town, I would still say it was Bard
Though on Neo, sure, he tunneled pretty damn hard
But there's not much to compete
Now the trainwreck is complete
And there's no-one in Town still alive
OK, Rev is in fact still alive.
He tempted fate and yet he's still alive.
Asked us to lynch him and he's still alive.
I have no clue why he is still alive.
Still alive?
Still alive.
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Trying to bring some humour into this, but yeah that game was pretty eh. Kinda glad to have died early on in retrospect. :|
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Oh right, I forgot to complain about the two no lynches.
Two no lynches, guys? Really?
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Town MVP is Affinity. The only guy that caught scum. He did it the legit townie way.
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See, it was totally reasonable for me to have thought Affinity was town when skimming the last few posts and finding a flipless game over! <_<
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Kudos to Affinity for the hard bus on Rou from the start. Cute that it proves it could work in a game with few power roles. The counter to that would have been if more dirt could be gotten against him, but with 2 no lynches (pretty bad stuff to say the least), he only had his Day 4 wagon against him.
Didn't like the case on Neo after Rou's flip because Rou had pursued Neo all game and I had thought Rou would not do a hard bus with Neo as his partner. At the same time, I was a little suspicious that Affinity could attempt it, so it's a funny double standard that could be eliminated if this were anonymafia. From what I remember of Day 2 though, it was kinda fluky that the Rou lynch actually occurred imo. Good strategy in the end coupled with the Town power roles not quite doing enough this game. And no, I didn't commit to thinking Affinity was scum until his Day 4 vote on PX aided by a bad feeling due to meta. He played it as well as he could have.
Another thing I was hoping for was that the Tracker would fullclaim on Day 4. With 4 Townies and 1 Scum alive, he should be willing to sac himself for the greater good. He clears himself and he would have cleared Rev. That leaves 3 targets with 2 chances and also clears his own lackluster play. Because Affinity would have most likely killed him on N4.
Day 5 was infuriating. I disagree with some of these early opinions and didn't like how reV played it. He absolutely said he would punish FFMaster at the end of Day 4 which is a terrible precedent and goes against "playing to win." And he followed through on it with an immediate LYLO vote and stipulates that Affinity earned the win if he was wrong. Well yea, but it's your damn fault Town lost, not FFMaster's. That's because you were too stubborn to at least not talk it out in Day 5. There's no such thing as an undeserving win. You win or you lose in Mafia. Be grateful you're in a game where Town gets that far and try to win it. Otherwise, just look at Bardiche's Vanilla Mafia and how far Town was there. And if you weren't the tracker, you should have known FFMaster or Affinity was it. Couldn't you have bothered to hear their roleclaims? And I don't get why you think his flavor name mattered.
And FFMaster, if you're not sure if something breaks the rules, ask the mod.
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I actually found this game fun...but then, this is my first mafia game. *Hugs all*
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I have to say, I was considering joining in the next mafia game, but after seeing this, I'm kinda scared. :ohdear:
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The next game will have people on the level of Wrathie-bad barred from playing.
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Awww, come on Hourai join, it's actually fun, for me anyway....
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::)
I'll do it.
Now to wait for next year. :P
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I loved your song, Rou, but I'm not Town MVP. :P
Also, on No Lynch, it's never profitable for Town to No Lynch unless they can protect the roles that actually matter. No Lynch takes the kill out of Town's hands and places it in Scum's. If your only method to weed out Scum is by lynching them, you shouldn't ever suggest going No Lynch just to thin the number and proceed to do ABSOLUTELY NO SCUM HUNTING. Hinging a Town plan on the idea that the Tracker won't die in the night and that "the statistical chance of getting it right increases" is really, really bad.
Lynch every day unless Role Madness permits you to rolegame instead of scumhunt. Don't hinge Town's victory on statistical analysis and a solely singular role. Always base Town's strategy around lynching scummy people for being scummy, not No Lynching because you want to increase your %-chance of being right.
Also, seriously, lurking harms Town. Not being clear about your opinions hurts Town. It's okay to have "nothing to say" during RVS - but after that there is almost always something to say, even if it's just griping that people should talk more. When in doubt, go with a gut feeling. It's still better than posting one-liners about how you're unsure about everything.
I'll see you in January.
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ReV. Were you just leading FFM on near the end there or did you really have no idea how to make yourself clearer? ...I honestly don't think I can even blame you if you WERE just waiting to see how long it was before he realized what you were trying to say.
:V ?
OK, Rev is in fact still alive.
He tempted fate and yet he's still alive.
Asked us to lynch him and he's still alive.
I have no clue why he is still alive.
Still alive?
Still alive.
Because...
(http://i52.tinypic.com/4rdk5x.png)
@Kiro:
Sheesh, hater. *blows Kiro a raspberry*
See above for part of the reason for the quick vote. And I have "played to win", we are at the end of the game and final result matters little to me, it's the journey that counts! Sure, I knew about there most likely being a tracker and should've asked for a roleclaim from both of them at the start, but as you can see, it would've made little difference with FFM's roleclaiming ability, Affinity's version would've been more believable.
As for flavoured names, I've seen people who are terrible at making up lies.
Anyhow.
A shame really that Bard pushed the Neo case so damn hard just due to giving up.
And again, well played to Affinity, your last two days' "let's back reV's opinions up completely!" kinda made me extremely wary of you (and I was pretty convinced that you are town before that point), but FFM's hammer just did it for me, I was far more convinced about FFM riding on his noobness than you being scum.
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And I have "played to win", we are at the end of the game and final result matters little to me, it's the journey that counts!
The journey counts, but the destination also counts. The two ultimate rules of Mafia are "have fun" and "play to win", and both should be kept in mind at all times, not just when it's convenient.
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Pretty sure this is the worst mafia game in MotK history.
I don't mind, though, because Rou's parody song from earlier is wonderful.
<3, Rou.
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Sure, I knew about there most likely being a tracker and should've asked for a roleclaim from both of them at the start, but as you can see, it would've made little difference with FFM's roleclaiming ability, Affinity's version would've been more believable.
Yea, I understand that and iterated as much to Pesco when I was PMing him during Day 5. It just seemed that you never gave him a chance because you didn't unvote him at all during your exchange with him and then proceeded to write out that Affinity could have his win after all. You could say Affinity deserved to win, but couldn't you also say that you deserved to win by making a hard decision to put aside your bias against FFMaster and vote correctly? Affinity chose to risk his only buddy from the start of the game, it's perfectly acceptable to punish him by lynching him, even if it takes Town all the way to LYLO to do so.
And there's no hate. Disappointment, but no hate.
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@Kiro: Yeah, as said, I definitely should have, but being
an egotistic and self-righteous bastard the Epitome of Justice, I absolutely had to punish the FFM for his actions through out the days and give Affinity his deserving victory regardless of his alignment :3
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I would say that Town MVP is Doll, due to the fact that he voted Roukanken for no reason at all and made me facepalm due to instant wagon. I would say that, without his vote, Roukanken would not have been lynched. Extreme apologies to Roukanken for hard bussing him without any warning, the song is completely warranted and stuff; I was so certain that no one would listen to me with my long-winded posts that D2 was just baffling. I share Kiro's sentiment that the Rou lynch just 'happened' on D2; none of them on the wagon actually really entertained my reasons for voting him (e.g passive scumhunting), and three of them just jumped on to get a lynch. Lastly, everyone just happened to hate Rou by D2 except reVelske, so it may be doubtful if the lynch would not have happened if I did not vote. With the play being stagnant, I also wanted to selfishly mix things up a bit, sadly. Both town and scum did not work together, and suddenly I was gambling with the set-up.
If Rou defended himself, I would change my vote, but sigh, changing due to nothing would have made me weak enough for Bardiche to point out. I wanted something like Bamboo Forest to happen, but hmm.
NK choices were to me sensible. On N2, Doll had the absolute license to vote anyone in the game due to being a newbie. To actually use that license to vote scum as the second vote without any reason at all is pretty much obvtown play to me; why would you use that license to vote scum so early in the wagon if you were the other scum? Doesn't make sense. He would have been confirmed townie to me, and well, it would potentially dodge the jailer too than if I were to vote reVelske, the more 'correct' NK.
And well, I wanted to show how haphazard the NK choices were to lessen the subconscious stigma against me not getting NK'ed so many times, but well, that's just subjective.
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The rest of the days... are not worth mentioning. Three things.
1. Complaining about RVS on D2 and how people were 'supposedly advocating passivity' is quite sad and unnecessary. It does not in any way catch scum because their opinions aren't going to change whether town or scum.
2. Cases are everywhere even in games as stagnant and unmoving as this. With every lynch comes a bandwagon.
3. Defend yourself a little bit when faced with a case. I planned to move off you, Roukanken, and my vote was not exactly final. Not that that excuses me, but still, claiming that there was nothing to talk about in the game is quite... strange.
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I like reVelske's play very much for being peppy and interesting without being too offensive (to me, though you could have let up a little on FFMaster). Conclusions were logical, and cases were pretty much coherent. Bardiche was too fixated on ED1. PX is getting the hang of this game in my opinion, and can become better in the future. FFMaster needs to stop letting emotions cloud his voting and tracking decisions. it's scaring people away. Doll, might need to sit around for longer. Yup, that's all. Sorry Roukanken.
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Pretty sure this is the worst mafia game in MotK history.
Speaking as someone who was in/modded those games that I swear never existed, this is a load off my mind. :V