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This is obviously a continuation of the last 2 threads.
View thread 2 at : http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php?topic=4614.0
and thread 1 at: http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php?topic=4187.0
View the wiki site for this excellent fangame at:
http://touhou.wikia.com/wiki/Labyrinth_of_Touhou
You can download the 2.04 patch for this game at: http://www.mediafire.com/?mzdgl54mxmi
(Garlyle's upload I think, thank him)
You can also get the 2.06B patch from:
http://www.megaupload.com/?d=DA1DGQZC
If you wish to NG+ it's actually best to use the following save file below, it features all the characters unlocked at level 1 with all their stats set to normal. If you NG+ yourself it will bug out and make the characters contained in the last and second last pages all share the same stats for status resists, elemental affinities, and sp recovery, the following save file has been fixed by Pesco:
http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=5049.0;attach=5054
You will still want patch 2.06 for choice moments if you choose to NG+ however. If you ever re-recruit someone that you already have (everyone with NG+), their level will drop back down to 1 upon recruitment...which isn't so bad because it keeps their exp so you just re-level up. However, it brings all their skill levels back down to 1 as well (no your skillpoints will not be reimbursed), in addition, any equipment that character was wearing when you re-recruited them will be deleted. eeek.
DO NOT use the 2.06B patch on your first playthru, it's not functional with the translation patch. The only purpose of this patch is to use New game +, which is unavailable in 2.04.
When starting a new game with new game+, the menu order from top to bottom is:
Carry over unlocked characters?
Carry over skillpoints? (will only carry initial 5 characters if first menu is no)
The last is carry over items.
I haven't new game+ed yet myself (will soon) so if there are other menu choices in between I don't know them, sorry >=(
Install order is:
game, plus disk, 2.4 patch (my plus disk cd is pre-2.4, yay , translation patch.
There is a patch 2.5 and (I think) 2.6. They offer features like new game +, buffed Nitori, and probably others. However as far as I understand, they do not work with the english patch since they are beta patches. Something you should know.. ANYWAY, in continuation with the last thread:
when discussing this game, there is some kind of house rule where you have to (spoiler) lolol some name here (/spoiler) names past floor 6ish in the game. Please try to remember that since some people actually seem to care. Of course, use square brackets not round ones to actually spoiler tag successfully.
Also, I'm still willing to smack Ghaleon for saying Rinnosuke
is bad. :V
You cannot refute my logic though.
Seriously though, gender is the reason.
I just beat the first 30F boss without cheating yet once this playthru yay. I think I'm going to cheat my way past the last 2, I just don't want to grind 200 more levels on the same content I've already grinded the alst 100+ *shudders*...And I want to get on with my 2nd 2nd play thru (Want to finish the first completely so I don't accidently delete my 2nd again).
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I just beat the first 30F boss without cheating yet once this playthru yay. I think I'm going to cheat my way past the last 2, I just don't want to grind 200 more levels on the same content I've already grinded the alst 100+ *shudders*...And I want to get on with my 2nd 2nd play thru (Want to finish the first completely so I don't accidently delete my 2nd again).
Unless you REALLY want the bragging rights, do it. As I said before, plus disk has no "ending." You will beat the super boss and that's it, the dialogue you get as a reward is even less interesting than the random conversations that happen upon entering a new floor.
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Unless you REALLY want the bragging rights, do it. As I said before, plus disk has no "ending." You will beat the super boss and that's it, the dialogue you get as a reward is even less interesting than the random conversations that happen upon entering a new floor.
Yeah I know, I know I should have cheated already too. Thing is the game is so good otherwise, and really, it just feels wrong to cheat on a game this good >=\
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Does anyone here have a walkthrough for the switches in floors 10-11 & 12, I have been spelunking through it for quite some time and by god I can't figure my way in the blue switches.
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I don't really have a walkthrough as such (though I think the wiki does), but I didn't have much trouble with that maze once I started print screening the floor maps, pasting them into MS Paint, and marking where all the switches and barriers I encountered were located.
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Oooh, discussion on the worst characters. I really have to disagree on some. Mokou, Youmu... they aren't terrible, and Youmu is actually a pretty good ATK nuker. Incredibly similar to Yuugi, really. Wriggle doesn't suck either, her PSN is quite strong and hits most bosses, and she has decent survival ability and Butterfly Storm isn't weaksauce when PSN doesn't hit.
And yes, 18F has cooties and I'll never ever use that thing but is definitely not a bad character.
Now I'd put in
Cirno (100% useless when her status affects can't hit, and those can be replicated by other characters. And if you go into Plus-Disk, one character can replicate all of Cirno's usefulness in one move and do it literally 4 times stronger (PAR-120 PLUS SPEED DOWN AND ATK DOWN WHAT), plus better survival and 2 other buff/debuff skills.)
Reisen (Frail and ehh damage, debuff isn't even that strong either. Her self-buff might make her not totally suck, after you have the SP to actually make it useful.)
Rumia (I love Rumia, but come on, she's slow, frail, DSotM is weaksauce except for MND ignore, Moonlight Ray only does okay damage, and Demarcation is... well, Demarcation is okay. Unfortunately, a Plus-Disk character has a move that attacks enemies AND cures debuffs on the party and is still very good otherwise. Plus, after you have many characters, it shouldn't be that hard to rebuff instead of having a un-debuffer. The PAR heal and HP heal is a decent add-on.)
Sakuya is pretty sucky. Her speed-up isn't that awesome although its okay, and the same goes for her damage. Alternatively, you could boost a defensive stat and kill her attack ability in exchange for making it easier to keep her out on bosses.
Then, there are a bunch of characters who are simply inferior although not like "YOU SUCK".
Iku
Eirin
Sanae(Compared to Minoriko)
Mokou
Orin(Suck against bosses)
Nitori
Aya(Compared to Chen as your rapespeed character)
MAYBE Youmu, compared to Yuugi. Maybe. Youmu is still a great ATK nuker with high HP/DEF.
And maybe include Wriggle in that list, maybe Yuyuko.
I've tried out basically every non-Plus character for several floors, so I know pretty well which ones fall below expectations (or simply had terrible expectations in the first place)
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Fuck Yukari jesus christ
This battle is unfair :(
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Man, everything is kicking my ass from F13 on. :ohdear:
Could handle the F13 enemies okay as long as they don't attack Marisa, which they almost never did.
F14 is WHAT. I just ran like a pussy to F15 in hopes of better times over there.
Almost everything outspeeds me. If I see Ms palletswap the sorceress, I just run with Chen. She's ridiculous.
And I just know I'm missing things on F13. Do you really have to do random combinations with switches to find them?
On a different note, I love how Rinnosuke got his strength through the power of SCIENCE! :V
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On my quest for the 20F drop items so I can get that star, I have discovered that The Norns do indeed drop Ribbons.
The Truth-Seeing Eyes are the ones dropping Elder Dragon's Jewels. I have one from a random battle on 19F, one from treasure on 19F, and one from random battle on 20F. GOD. I don't need those damn things, I NEED SCOURGE/DIVINE SPIRIT BARRIER/FLOWER BLADE KIKURSOMETHING ;-;
Reimu lv185. If I don't have these items by the time I should be able to fight Final Boss ver2... I mean, I'm planning on using both the characters you get for beating her D:
I mean, I've already basically given up on getting the items before I'm ready to start doing 21F+. >:
EDIT:Got Divine Spirit Barrier at Reimu lv192 YEAAAAH. Now I just have two more to go ;-;
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Cheat Engine. Don't feel ashamed.
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Cheat Engine. Don't feel ashamed.
Not until I hit 30F >:
Because it just isn't right to make your players grind for hours and hours just for a boss (Well, 3 bosses) that doesn't even have an ounce of story value. I'll only want to beat the Plus-Disk Final so I can get New Game+ for all-char unlock right at the start (and nothing else carried over)
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Not for grinding, just the drop.
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Not for grinding, just the drop.
Maybe if I hit the level where I should be able to beat the boss, and I STILL don't have it. I'll need to grind on 20F for like 15~25 more levels anyway. Where is the grinding spot to use after 20F, anyway? I know its 27F for grinding once you just have 30F stuff left.
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Holy shit the enemies on floor 18 are tough. D:
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Floor 16 was pretty nice while it lasted (most enemies being slower than Patchy means you can nuke just about everything before it can move, and the ones that outspeed you hardly do any damage), but now I have four different bosses to choose between (
Flandre, Kaguya's Foe, Yukari, and some 15F sigil guardian
), and they all like destroying me in a variety of ways. Time to assign those 500k skillpoints accumulated while exploring, I guess.
Also, is Flowing Hellfire affected by defence or mind? It just seems to nuke everyone no matter what they specialize in...
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Fire affinity. you can't go wrong.
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(http://img15.imageshack.us/img15/6118/demanned.png)
He even got off his last-ditch super buff, but Kaguya and Yugi were just barely enough to take him down before he got a shot off. THANK GOD THAT'S OVER AND DONE WITH. I was certain I was doomed when Reimu died halfway through the fight.
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Fire affinity. you can't go wrong.
Thanks for reminding me, as I just realized that was what I used to defeat the last two versions of that boss. Speaking of which, is there any enemy up to floor 16 that drops those +128 fire affinity Love Machines or whatever they are called?
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Love machines are unique drops. Only 3 in the game (IIRC) pre-Bosh Rush. You might get another from the side quest but that's post game for you.
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*looks at his newest character post-skill point buff*
Okay, screw cooties, I'm using him. o_o There's been one slot that's always been up in the air anyway.
His TP though... :( I boosted it up to 11, but still...ow.
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*looks at his newest character post-skill point buff*
Okay, screw cooties, I'm using him. o_o There's been one slot that's always been up in the air anyway.
His TP though... :( I boosted it up to 11, but still...ow.
It gets better, his party buff uses all his TP and doesn't work if you don't have any left!
But yeah, its a pretty good character if you don't mind the "eeeeew" :V
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Hell yeah, floor 19 has the best traveling theme return! :D
And yeah, his TP is up to 23 thanks to that miraculous flame item.
Martyr's Labyrinth: 12:12 PM
LET'S KICK SHELL!
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Yay! You're on the home stretch, Donut!
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So I decided to try this out last night. Managed to make it to level 2 and encounter Cirno once before going to sleep (which I was originally planning on doing before I even installed it). Got myself killed once by ignoring the advice given when you first encounter an event (where it tells you that you can't see them until you're right next to them) and ran into the boss encounter with Chen when my average level was 3. That didn't go well, but I'm paranoid about saving and didn't lose anything other than a little bit of experience.
Made it to level 3 before I had to go cook (mmmmmm...grilled steak). I'm pretty sure I was under leveled for the fight against Youmu since she wiped my party the first two times I attempted her and it felt like an uphill battle the whole time. Third time's the charm, and while it was pretty close at times keeping her speed down with Cirno and swapping ⑨ out for someone else until she needed more debuffing made things much more manageable, as was being careful with the use of Aki once Youmu's ghost half was down.
Patchy couldn't get much done during any attempt since she would still get one-shot by a row attack (can't remember which one), so I guess I need to dump some more points into HP. That said my levels at the time were 10s and 11s with Chen and Cirno being 12, so maybe a few more levels would have been sufficient to let her survive those hits. Shortly before the fight was over Youmu decided to one-shot Aki with Present Life Slash (I think she always used Slash of Eternity on the leading character) :(
The game's been pretty enjoyable thus far. The character art isn't exactly good but what I've heard of the soundtrack is solid.
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So many Aya haters. I think she's great. her attacks are pretty powerful except against those resistant to wind. But she really shines IMO because her speed buff is a significant buff, with low delay, and cheap sp cost. Single target is more of a good thing than a bad one too (well buffing everyone is better obviously but I like single with low delay more than everyone with high) because you can switch people in and out and buff the new face, instead of wasting a multi target buff on 3 people that don't need it and 1 that does.
But if she has nobody to buff, she CAN dps reasonably well (my patch silent selenes for like 700k, remi spears for about 500k with 20-30% atk buff, and Alice can fire doll for about 500k on those not resistant to fire), Aya does her final spell for about 300k. Which 9is pretty damn good considering her high speed and low delay, and the spell's nature of keeping her speed buff up. Seriously though, She's more important for the speed buff IMO. She's not squishy either. She's no tank but I can stick her in slot two and she can survive a samidere slash or whatever. Thing with chen is chen is only meant to dps, doesn't do anything else, and she's one of those MUST be in slot 4 type characters or you really risk having her go splat.
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So the translation patch doesn't work with the new patches right? Anybody know if the creators of of this are still patching the game? I find with most commercial games (haven't really seen a beta patch for a doujin game until now), when they release a beta patch, it's the last one they ever do, and support for the game pretty much ends.
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So the translation patch doesn't work with the new patches right? Anybody know if the creators of of this are still patching the game? I find with most commercial games (haven't really seen a beta patch for a doujin game until now), when they release a beta patch, it's the last one they ever do, and support for the game pretty much ends.
I don't think they are, no. I believe they're working on an ACTUAL Etrian Odyssey-styled game (with 3d dungeon view and stuff) already, but I could be wrong.
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I don't think they are, no. I believe they're working on an ACTUAL Etrian Odyssey-styled game (with 3d dungeon view and stuff) already, but I could be wrong.
You know I never heard of that game:
"http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Etrian_Odyssey"
Sounds interesting. I'm not too pleased about making my own map...I can't write or draw, so I'm basically fucked. Is it worth playing anyway?
And what do you mean by actual? You mean they'll make Eterian Odyssey 4? They'll make their own version without Touhou? or they'll make another Touhou remake of it that is more similar than Labyrinth of Touhou?
I know you aren't sure, but I'm just curious what you meant.
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Reimu lv210. Flan has 666 SP :V
Explored all of 21F (Yay that's not grinding YAAAY), and on 20F grinding I've gotten 2 Flower Blades, ANOTHER Elder Dragon's Jewel from the Truth-Seeing Eyes, and apparently Exa Grain drops Pailsen Files, cool, those are nifty.
I'VE GOTTEN EVERY SINGLE DROP ON THIS FLOOR EXCEPT SCOURGE AUUUUGH (You don't even need most of the rare drops! Elder Dragon Jewel/Ribbon/Pailsen Files... D:)
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I am sorry but the Scourge drop is inversly proportional to how much you want Scourge. When I wanted it, it never came, but when I said "screw it I don't care any more" I proceded to find 1 right after, then another 2 while on my way to level 250 or sumthin around that level :V
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Scourge IMO is pretty crappy. Flower blade is way better IMO, as is shuttle body and palisen files. Of course you need one to get that elusive star.
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You know I never heard of that game:
"http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Etrian_Odyssey"
Sounds interesting. I'm not too pleased about making my own map...I can't write or draw, so I'm basically fucked. Is it worth playing anyway?
And what do you mean by actual? You mean they'll make Eterian Odyssey 4? They'll make their own version without Touhou? or they'll make another Touhou remake of it that is more similar than Labyrinth of Touhou?
I know you aren't sure, but I'm just curious what you meant.
This game's japanese title is Touhou no Meikyuu
The JP title of Etrian Odyssey is "Sekaijuu no Meikyuu".
This is why a lot of the initial name references were "Touhou Etrian Odyssey" before "Labyrinth of Touhou" was decided upon as the standard. The game even shares a good number of similiarities as a dungeon crawler.
Regardless, I remember seeing screenshots from the creator's page which showed that their next Touhou fangame is going to be far closer to Etrian Odyssey in look than this game, which is very much its own spin on the dungeon crawler genre as a whole.
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This game's japanese title is Touhou no Meikyuu
The JP title of Etrian Odyssey is "Sekaijuu no Meikyuu".
This is why a lot of the initial name references were "Touhou Etrian Odyssey" before "Labyrinth of Touhou" was decided upon as the standard. The game even shares a good number of similiarities as a dungeon crawler.
Regardless, I remember seeing screenshots from the creator's page which showed that their next Touhou fangame is going to be far closer to Etrian Odyssey in look than this game, which is very much its own spin on the dungeon crawler genre as a whole.
Ok cool thanks...so it's still a touhou fangame *gasps in relief*.
I've been thinking who I'm going to use for my new game+. I have a question for people w ho have used Yukari...Is she capable of surviving as a 2nd slot tank? so 80% damage demon slashing dances, the occasional steel slash, slash dives, etc? I kinda want to have some new tanks for my next playthru, but china is probably a must, and well, options that I already don't use on my first playthru are limited, especially since I don't want to use cootie-bag.
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Ghaleon, she can survive in the 2nd slot, but I think other chars would be better, like Yuugi.
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I've been thinking who I'm going to use for my new game+. I have a question for people w ho have used Yukari...Is she capable of surviving as a 2nd slot tank? so 80% damage demon slashing dances, the occasional steel slash, slash dives, etc? I kinda want to have some new tanks for my next playthru, but china is probably a must, and well, options that I already don't use on my first playthru are limited, especially since I don't want to use cootie-bag.
She isn't that awesome at taking physical hits... I mean, she has decent DEF/HP, but she can't tank 2nd slot on a boss with physical attacks. Well, if you went for DEF on level ups she should definitely be able to, but its so much more efficient to go for MND... then again, if you go for DEF, she should have pretty good DEF and MND, so it might work.
I dunno. Same case goes for Ran as for Yukari, tank-wise, except Ran's buffs are slower to get out so it doesn't work as well. Sakuya with DEF level ups could do for 2nd slot.
If you're going off a New Game+ you could use Kanako maybe (...maybe not.), or Keine with DEF level ups (Which is just about identical to Sakuya with DEF levelups, except different kind of buff)
And@Mystearica, Yuugi's MND is so low you can't even consider using her as a tank. Especially since most of the required bosses in the main game 9F+ have tons of MAG attacks.
The stat you go for on level ups makes such a dramatically huge difference to the stat, that it really opens things up if you go for a defensive stat instead of offensive. Someone you'd normally use as a tank anyway would work better of course, but Sakuya/Keine/Yukari with DEF level ups should make passable 2nd slot tanks. Or maybe Wriggle, who can still damage with PSN despite low ATK.
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And@Mystearica, Yuugi's MND is so low you can't even consider using her as a tank. Especially since most of the required bosses in the main game 9F+ have tons of MAG attacks.
I said Yuugi cuz of her decent DEF. Although since Ghaleon won't use any used on his previous play, no Remi for 2nd slot. Ghaleon, who is a no-go for characters to use? We can't reccomend until we know who you won't be willing use.
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I said Yuugi cuz of her decent DEF. Although since Ghaleon won't use any used on his previous play, no Remi for 2nd slot. Ghaleon, who is a no-go for characters to use? We can't reccomend until we know who you won't be willing use.
Oh I'm planning on using the best characters from my old game, so I can see accurately how new ones compare. So I AM using reimu,marisa,remi,patchy, and china. The rest is new. I want to try yuyuko and chen out for sure, as well as ran. Since I'm trying chen and ran, I figure might as well try yukari for "that" spell, But I do n't know if she can be a slot 2 tank. Remi can too but not all the time. Maybe I should give Yuugi a shot because so far my party setup is heavy mnd oriented compare to def.
Yeah I think I'll try her as a potential secondary tank. Her def is better than Sakuya's, but level up rate is slower, so it's probably even. But I think she'll be better because she is capable of defense buffing, so she'll always have a decent defense buff up too probably.
I'm not really hoping for party suggestions so much as wondering if Yukari can do that, which will influence my other choices.
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If your using Meiling and Remi, then you can use those 2 for the 1st and 2nd slots. Remi actually can be sitting in the 2nd slot 24/7 due to her having great DEF and MND 8)
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If your using Meiling and Remi, then you can use those 2 for the 1st and 2nd slots. Remi actually can be sitting in the 2nd slot 24/7 due to her having great DEF and MND 8)
Yeah, it's w hat I do already, but sometimes one or the other has to step out to regen sp or something.
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Yeah, Remi can definitely sit in the 2nd slot all the time because of her self-buff, especially if there are party DEF/MND buffs which, in addition to her self-buff, keeps her DEF/MND VERY highly buffed. And Remi has great SP recovery, heck, with stuff that boosts SP recov a little (Lion King Soul, King of Heart Badge (I think), Gold Cloth, other lovely things Remi should be given), she'll recover like 80 SP on focus so she never needs to be switched out.
Also, Yukari is a godly 3rd slot character if you level up her MND because she'll take usually take low damage from composite and 0 damage from magic, after using her party MND/DEF buff. In the second slot though... that isn't a good idea against bosses with strong physical attacks.
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For that then
Ran and Yukari could survive in the 1st and 2nd slots, but not for long, especially in the 1st. Ran and Yukari are like Alternate Tanks, they have better DEF then the squishies but not as good as a Tank. Also, why do people even mention putting a Level Bonus in DEF or MND with anyone that isn't named Tenshi? Aside from Tenshi, shouldn't every Level Bonus go into that chars offensive stat? Like MAG for Reimu/Yukari or ATK for Remi/Meiling?
I still can not figure out how to boost BP through use of Cheat Engine, I seriously need help on this.
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Also, why do people even mention putting a Level Bonus in DEF or MND with anyone that isn't named Tenshi? Aside from Tenshi, shouldn't every Level Bonus go into that chars offensive stat? Like MAG for Reimu/Yukari or ATK for Remi/Meiling?[/spoiler]
...why in the world would you give Meiling ATK on level ups when she'll take 0 damage from like everything if you give her DEF. >:I I mean, she's busy spamming Switch/Healer/Colorful Rain in bosses anyway, and on free turns she needs to Focus!
Also, Yukari's attacks aren't that awesome even with MAG levels (unless Chen is out, or even better, Chen+Ran), and she's so slow she'll have to spend most of her time buffing anyway.
But anyone who isn't just for Tank/Support stuff should be given their respective offensive stat.
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...why in the world would you give Meiling ATK on level ups when she'll take 0 damage from like everything if you give her DEF. >:I I mean, she's busy spamming Switch/Healer/Colorful Rain in bosses anyway, and on free turns she needs to Focus!
Also, Yukari's attacks aren't that awesome even with MAG levels (unless Chen is out, or even better, Chen+Ran)
, and she's so slow she'll have to spend most of her time buffing anyway.
But anyone who isn't just for Tank/Support stuff should be given their respective offensive stat.
And yet, Meiling takes 0s or really low dmg counts from everything, rarely needs to use Healer cause either she or Remi get hit andf Remi takes 0s to low dmg just like Meiling. Oh and guess what? I put almost all of her level ups into ATK and she does good damage. Although, yes she is the switcher cause most other chars have sumthin better to do.
Chen and Ran have 0 effect on the dmg dealt out by Yukari's Mesh, which is her only offense move worth using, unless the foe is weak to WND. She only ever needs to use her buff in a Boss Fight, or the 30F trash. Nothing else is worth it.
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For that then Ran and Yukari could survive in the 1st and 2nd slots, but not for long, especially in the 1st. Ran and Yukari are like Alternate Tanks, they have better DEF then the squishies but not as good as a Tank. Also, why do people even mention putting a Level Bonus in DEF or MND with anyone that isn't named Tenshi? Aside from Tenshi, shouldn't every Level Bonus go into that chars offensive stat? Like MAG for Reimu/Yukari or ATK for Remi/Meiling?
I still can not figure out how to boost BP through use of Cheat Engine, I seriously need help on this.
Eh, I wasn't intending for either ran or yukari to goto slot 1, that's crazy (unless you're fighting something like the final boss with first add dead).
As for why you spend level up bonuses in defensive stats (I always do), it's because of the mechanics of this game. the damage formula is attack MINUS defense. (with numbers and such, but the point is it subtracts). Other games might divide. when you have a divide formula, stacking defense will reduce your damage taken yes, but there is no point in stakcing it to kingdom come because while the first 1000 points might reduce a hit taken from 100 to 50, the 5th 1000 points will only reduce a hit from 100 to something like 80. Kinda like the whole elemental resistance formula in THIS game.
Anyway, when you have a subtraction formula, for pretty much ANY rpg game, defensive stats typically rule. While attack and defense are equally important while you and your enemy take exactly the same amount of damage you both give and receive, defense will make you pull ahead more as you level up. because if you suddenly increase your defense by 50%, you'll take half the damage, and you'll suddenly be 2X stronger than your opponant. However if you added 50% more attack...you only kill your enemy 50% faster, and are only 1.5X stronger...hopefully that makes sense.
If you're super under level, and you take like 20000 damage and only dish out like 500, increasing your damage output by 1000 will make a much larger impact than lowering your damage taken by 1000, but the fact is, generally. in a game like this, if you're taking that much damage, and ealing that much...YOUR ALREADY DEAD >=P
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Double post cuz totally unrelated to last post..
But I think I've just discovered some kind of pattern with skillpoint costs. Naturally the lower the skill level, the less accurate my estimation is. But the amount of skillpoints needed for the skill levelup double your current skill level will cost approximately 4X more than your current skill level.
so if at skill level 30, raising a certain stat costs 500, it will progressively go up to about 2000 to raise at skill level 60.
Seriously though, as I am recording skillpoint costs for different characters, it seems like the method they chose for the pricing of stats for each character is they first make it proportionate to that character's base stat, then they rolled 5D2 to determine if it would be under or over what you expect >=P
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When in doubt, fit a curve :D
If you got trouble cheating to fix BP or whatever, do the full tutorial that comes with CE. Gotta learn to do some stuff on your own since I can't make a step by step video for you.
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I've tried out basically every non-Plus character for several floors, so I know pretty well which ones fall below expectations (or simply had terrible expectations in the first place)
I'd honestly contest a good amount of those chars. The way things are going now I'm going to be beating the game with at least half of those characters in my party, and even the ones you listed as the worst don't really lose their value until plus-disk content, at which point you get characters designed to break the game in every possible way... You sure playstyle doesn't just vary that much?
EDIT: Also you lied to me. Lily Sigil isn't anywhere near as vulnerable to paralysis as you claim, because all my chars with a paralysis move tried it on him and not a single one hit the entire battle.
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Can someone show me where to download the newgame+ patch? I found one link on the official website, but it seems to lead to some Yahoo Japan 403 error page. (I odn't know what it is but it looks like a "this site is not available anymore" site to me).
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Wow, floor 19 is very charitable, giving me not one, but TWO checkpoints so far. Of course, the size is starting to take a toll on my computer, but who cares, this is the map I've been looking forward to all game. :>
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Wow, floor 19 is very charitable, giving me not one, but TWO checkpoints so far. Of course, the size is starting to take a toll on my computer, but who cares, this is the map I've been looking forward to all game. :>
I thought you got a new computer a few months ago...
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I thought you got a new computer a few months ago...
I did, back in August. I never said it was top of the line. :yukkuri: If I had to estimate what year this computer would be top of the line in, I'd say 2007.
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I did, back in August. I never said it was top of the line. :yukkuri: If I had to estimate what year this computer would be top of the line in, I'd say 2007.
My computer is older than that, and...well, handles this fine. You sure you aren't running the game from a floppy disk!?
edit: Just re-stating help with 2.06b patch, website link isn't working for me.. wahh, I want new game plus wahhh.
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My computer is older than that, and...well, handles this fine. You sure you aren't running the game from a floppy disk!?
edit: Just re-stating help with 2.06b patch, website link isn't working for me.. wahh, I want new game plus wahhh.
I put it up on MegaUpload sometime in the last topic, and with people asking for it I requoted the post with the download a few times. Just go in there and look for a post with a really big quote box :V
I'd honestly contest a good amount of those chars. The way things are going now I'm going to be beating the game with at least half of those characters in my party, and even the ones you listed as the worst don't really lose their value until plus-disk content, at which point you get characters designed to break the game in every possible way... You sure playstyle doesn't just vary that much?
EDIT: Also you lied to me. Lily Sigil isn't anywhere near as vulnerable to paralysis as you claim, because all my chars with a paralysis move tried it on him and not a single one hit the entire battle.
Its not that they're bad to use, its just other characters can do what they do, and do it better. Also, the list of "Worse but not terrible" characters are totally usable. They're just... you know, a little worse then others.
Sanae and Youmu wouldn't even be on the list if they weren't pretty much outclassed by someone else (although Sanae isn't THAT bad to use compared to Minoriko, just... a lot less healing per cast and a whole heckuva lot more delay in exchange for less MND and a negligible amount more DEF)
Wow, floor 19 is very charitable, giving me not one, but TWO checkpoints so far. Of course, the size is starting to take a toll on my computer, but who cares, this is the map I've been looking forward to all game. :>
If you've got a good bit of slowdown after just 2 of the checkpoints...
Teehee. :V
...WHAT IS THIS I DON'T EVEN
I start up thLaby after I wake up, and the first fight I get is a Diamond Knight. And after Flan 1shots him, I get Scourge. Just like that. brb lying down
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Alright, so far I'm seeing people putting these people down as "absolute crap":
Sakuya
Cirno
Wriggle
Reisen
And the "not so bad":
Iku
Eirin
I've noted the other choices, but there's no "common" agreement between them as of yet so I won't list them right now. Anybody else who hasn't answered yet and would like to add? Donut? You're quite far in; you can give an opinion.
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I'm going to do a LP of this game for my REAL second playthrough. Problem is I need to figure out audio/sound software to do it with. :ohdear:
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Sanae and Youmu wouldn't even be on the list if they weren't pretty much outclassed by someone else (although Sanae isn't THAT bad to use compared to Minoriko, just... a lot less healing per cast and a whole heckuva lot more delay in exchange for less MND and a negligible amount more DEF)
Greenie heals status effects and... are you sure she has that much worse MND than Minoriko? Taking off all of Green One's equipment and checking to be sure their skillpoint levels are the same, their MND is actually about the same...
...And I'm still mad about the Lily Sigil thing. You know how many turns I wasted trying to PAR that guy when damage would have helped more? >=V I think you were just lucky when you managed to keep him in a perpetual state of PAR, or maybe I'm just that unlucky. Either is possible.
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Cirno is most definitely NOT crap. Not only is she one of the fastest characters, but she she deal composite damage to all enemies AND lower their speed, not to mention paralyze them.
As for characters that came off as bad...well, I never gave many of them a fair chance, but Sakuya and Wriggle always came off as useless beyond meat shields.
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One sigil down, I assume there's three. I just faced Cosmic, and...well, time to find the third! ;^_^
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You'll have to come back to it some time...
Oh, and there's 4 of them.
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One sigil down, I assume there's three. I just faced Cosmic, and...well, time to find the third! ;^_^
cosmic is a bs luck fight... But I think I know somehing that should help. Stick patchy in front, someone like yuyuko in second (high mnd character that is), I believe that will make cosmic dual laser attack NOT instagib the front two... Magic jitsu ether flare is still probably a game over though.
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Dear God...
I just saw Alice in battle... I don't even want to see that face again but I have to because I need to beat her...
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Greenie heals status effects and... are you sure she has that much worse MND than Minoriko? Taking off all of Green One's equipment and checking to be sure their skillpoint levels are the same, their MND is actually about the same...
...And I'm still mad about the Lily Sigil thing. You know how many turns I wasted trying to PAR that guy when damage would have helped more? >=V I think you were just lucky when you managed to keep him in a perpetual state of PAR, or maybe I'm just that unlucky. Either is possible.
Her status effect healing and her all-stat buff are what she has to offer over Minoriko. However, I always have Meiling out for status effects, and when I've got Kaggy and Reimu and Yukari... single-target buffs aren't all that useful anymore. What I need is someone to throw out who can completely heal Meiling or Remi (or whoever), and Minoriko fits that great. Sanae on the other hand takes much longer to throw out the same amount of heals due to high delays, and doesn't heal nearly as much HP.
And the reason Minoriko's MND doesn't compare to your Sanae's the same is probably because you haven't used Minoriko. People sitting in Gensokyo get 80% exp, people in reserve get 90%, people in the front get 100%. Stat growth is exponential as you level, so having a lower level makes a difference. Hence why Chen will always have much higher SPD then Aya, despite Aya having better SPD growth.
Minoriko both has a better MND growth then Sanae and a good bit lower Level-Up rate, and it makes a decent difference. Plus, Minoriko doesn't need MAG equipment since she should full-heal anyone who isn't named Komachi, so you get to load her up with MND-boosting stuff (or whatever else you want).
I used Sanae in my first play, and when I go back to that save and compare them with no equipment/same skill level at Reimu Lv140, Minoriko STILL had about 1k more MND and 200 less DEF, slightly better SPD/HP. These numbers would both be a good bit better then Sanae if I had been using Minoriko in my party so she would have gotten more EXP.
Also, about the Lily Sigil fight, I guess I got really lucky with Suwako's PAR attack hitting 4 times in a row on my first playthrough :V
Also, Wriggle isn't useless, you have to keep in mind she has incredibly powerful PSN damage. Likely still one of the lesser useful characters, but you'd have to go measuring how much damage PSN-120 does and such.
Cirno is most definitely NOT crap. Not only is she one of the fastest characters, but she she deal composite damage to all enemies AND lower their speed, not to mention paralyze them.
Her composite damage=not that much, heck, her physical spell should generally deal more since you should go for ATK on level ups with her.
And about the PAR/SPD-down... yes, thats nice, but random battles aren't the difficult part of the game. Bosses are. And most bosses after you get awhile into the game, they just don't get hit by SPD down or PAR that much. And when it misses and the boss gets to move, Cirno has really low HP/DEF/MND and gets mowed down easily.
She has no good damage ability to speak of, and her PAR/SPD-down can be done by other characters, who ALSO have other useful skills beyond SPD down/PAR and much better survival abilities.
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Lol Pumping 18855 Skill Points into Patchy's mag at level 18 is funny.
5000 ish damage per use of Silent Selene really messes Rumia up.
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Her status effect healing and her all-stat buff are what she has to offer over Minoriko. However, I always have Meiling out for status effects, and when I've got Kaggy and Reimu and Yukari... single-target buffs aren't all that useful anymore. What I need is someone to throw out who can completely heal Meiling or Remi (or whoever), and Minoriko fits that great. Sanae on the other hand takes much longer to throw out the same amount of heals due to high delays, and doesn't heal nearly as much HP.
Thing is your analysis doesn't work considering my team set-up. The biggest example is in the other option for status curing: Meiling isn't one of my main tanks. My strategy always involves 10F in slot 1 and Medicinebitch in slot 2, only swapping in Meiling if one of them is in trouble (which happens less and less as my designated slot 2 gets the SP to overheal allies more and more without having to take a break and hit the bench... and 10F almost never needs a swapping-out). Without her out too often I need another source of status restore, which Minoriko does not give.
Delays generally don't mean too much since no matter which healer I ever used, they always swapped in, healed the person most in need of curing, and swapped out before the boss has a chance to attack since healers don't want to take hits.
Between the buffers like goldenbitch and Reimu, yeah they both buff the whole team, but only one set of stats at a time... i.e. attack OR defense. Green One's buff ups EVERYTHING in one go, which is especially useful if I just swapped someone in, who likely doesn't have Reimu's Hakurei Border defense on her and at best only has a few Eighty Billion Holy Boards/Banquets on her, which is nowhere near as good (amazing how fast those spells cuts into the user's SP... Honestly I'm tempted to focus 100% on her SP for skillpoint and level-up bonuses, and while I know you think defenses would be better I never find her running low on HP enough compared to SP).
And the reason Minoriko's MND doesn't compare to your Sanae's the same is probably because you haven't used Minoriko. People sitting in Gensokyo get 80% exp, people in reserve get 90%, people in the front get 100%. Stat growth is exponential as you level, so having a lower level makes a difference. Hence why Chen will always have much higher SPD then Aya, despite Aya having better SPD growth.
Their level was close enough at the time of comparison that the difference was negligable (I used Minoriko until at least floor 10 after all, if not longer). It was good enough on both, though quite frankly neither one of them should be taking hits.
Also, Wriggle isn't useless, you have to keep in mind she has incredibly powerful PSN damage. Likely still one of the lesser useful characters, but you'd have to go measuring how much damage PSN-120 does and such.
Pretty sure someone else said she was bad, not me.
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Cirno is most definitely NOT crap. Not only is she one of the fastest characters, but she she deal composite damage to all enemies AND lower their speed, not to mention paralyze them.
Cirno is useful (great, even) for the early floors, but then Komachi
joins and is all "Oh, you do paralysis and -SPD? I can do both of those, in one attack, with -def, -mnd, and poison to boot. Oh, and I can tank too."
I still can not figure out how to boost BP through use of Cheat Engine, I seriously need help on this.
Same as I posted in the last thread:
- Open Cheat Engine and Touhou Labyrinth, load your saved game, open thlabyrinth as the program that Cheat Engine is modifying
- Unknown initial value, set memory scan options to "all", click first scan
- Win into a random battle with Chen in your party of 4
- Increased value by, enter "2", click next scan
- Swap the rest of your party out except Chen, do another battle, do increased value by 2 again
- Put Chen into your reserves, win another battle, "unchanged value", and hit next scan
- The only remaining address should be Chen's BP, rinse and repeat with other characters
Exactly what's not working when you try this?
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Fuck you
Mokou
! Fuck you so hard! >:(
That battle took over 30 minutes! I see you use Resurrection
, now I've read all the warnings earlier in the thread, so I ready Marisa for master spark and Patchy to nuke.
INSTEAD, YOU DIDN'T EVEN GIVE ME TIME TO FIRE THE DAMN THING BEFORE YOU 0HK MY ENTIRE PARTY!
GODDAMNIT
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That battle took over 30 minutes!
You're likely underleveled for the fight then, in which case you probably wouldn't do enough damage to kill her post-Resurrection anyway.
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Well, I was being insanely carefull and never really used Patchy. The only ones on offense were Remilia and Chen. Is level 60ish underleveled? Marisa and Patchy are level 80 and 72 in MAG respectively.
Also, why does Suwako
never paralyse anything? :([/size]
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Well, I was being insanely carefull and never really used Patchy. The only ones on offense were Remilia and Chen. Is level 60ish underleveled? Marisa and Patchy are level 80 and 72 in MAG respectively.
Also, why does Suwako
never paralyse anything? :([/size]
Stop using her PAR attack on stuff that is resistant to PAR D:
And 65~70 is the recommended level I think. It should be possible at your level then, but not ideal if you don't want RAGE I LOST AGAIN
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Hah, beat Cosmic. I'm not exactly sure how, but I managed to weather his magic jutsu. Just one more sigil until I can reach THE FINAL BOSS (note that I pronounce this like it is pronounced in Full Life Consquences).
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Yessah! Floor 20...at last! What level is recommended to fight
Mary Berry, part of a balanced breakfast
? The enemies on this floor are TOUGH, except for the Executioners, but even they have a hella trippy attack.
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130+ I would suggest. Though, there's a bit of leeway.
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'k. Reimu's currently at level 114. Guess I'd better prepare for another long grind...and not to fight
Yukari but not
every other level like I did with Mr. Man, because when I accidentally ran into her, I got to the point where three of her eldritch abominations were summoned before she raised all their battle gauges to 100% and completely toasted me (how far into the fight is that BTW?). I like how she's actually not resistant to anything (except death obviously), and is vulnerable to all elements, meaning anyone you've brought to this point can be useful.
Also, any estimates on her health?
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There's an, IIRC, 80k, 100k, and 120k going in reverse order to summoning. Once all three are dead the boss's HP "unlocks" and you can begin whittling it away.
And the grinding isn't long as long as you use floor 18 and 15 together on floor 20. Have you EVEN noticed the EXP those enemies give? You'll level up on average once per kill.
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They're tough enemies though. Also, I don't use
Pudding
. My final team is:
Reimu
Marisa
Cirno
Patchouli
Yukari
Rinnosuke
Kaguya
Alice
Ran
Yugi
Komachi
Suwako
Well, I've explored the remainders of floors 19 and 20. Unless I want to go back to floor 13 and pick up those last few places, I have nothing left to do but grind.
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Testing out the stat level ratings. The formula of how the rating affects the cost is directly proportional e.g.
| Stat | Rating | 1->2 | 2->3 | 3->4 | 4->5 | 5->6 | 6->7 |
| Reimu def | 200 | 4 | 14 | 30 | 50 | 74 | 104 |
| Reimu mag | 100 (110 adjusted to) | 2 | 7 | 15 | 25 | 37 | 52 |
| Reimu spi | 300 | 6 | 21 | 45 | 75 | 111 | 156 |
| Sakuya spd | 200 | 4 | 14 | 30 | 50 | 74 | 104 |
Base values are not random from what I've gathered. Excel's curve-fitting says cost = 2.0019(level)1.8184.
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Pudding
Funny that. I'm eating some flan
at this very moment. Delicious stuff.
That said, I'm still seeing your team being a lot more Magic-Oriented. It also occurred to me just then that you only have 1 healer, though the "support" utilities of certain characters might kick in more which may or may not balance this out. To each their own.
/observation
HP estimates? Hm...
The actual Boss herself I would have no idea, or any estimate save for 1.5mil+ after all 3 limbs are out. The limbs themselves range from what appears to be 500k-800k or so; the top one appearing to have the most (confirm?) and the left one having the least. Form change HP intervals I would have no idea either
.
20F should be a breeze for about 80% of the time if you use a full house of glass cannons "one-shots" (e.g. Yuugi
, Flan
[hah], etc.) paired with somebody like Yukari
who when using her support move, will give you twice as many attacks.
Let it be known that I have never hammered the Rest button so much in the entire game until that point for grinding purposes.
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Testing out the stat level ratings. The formula of how the rating affects the cost is directly proportional e.g.
| Stat | Rating | 1->2 | 2->3 | 3->4 | 4->5 | 5->6 | 6->7 |
| Reimu def | 200 | 4 | 14 | 30 | 50 | 74 | 104 |
| Reimu mag | 100 (110 adjusted to) | 2 | 7 | 15 | 25 | 37 | 52 |
| Reimu spi | 300 | 6 | 21 | 45 | 75 | 111 | 156 |
| Sakuya spd | 200 | 4 | 14 | 30 | 50 | 74 | 104 |
Base values are not random from what I've gathered. Excel's curve-fitting says cost = 2.0019(level)1.8184.
I documented the rating costs of atk/def/mnd/mag/ and speed (though not mag for physical and not attack for magic characters) of 20 different characters. The way I did it is using the cheat engine to give me oodles of points, and then I spent it on level ups until the skill up cost surpassed 100k. The final skill level for each character seems to average around 220-250 for all their stats. Where the lowest levels end at 167, and the highest was 320 (of the 20 characters I tested). Beat in mind the costs for other stats like tp and elemental resists are much higher.
I can post em here if you like.
I'm not sure what that curve fitting means exactly. is that relative to the base cost? Because there doesn't seem to be any variable dependant on anything but level in there, and that wouldn't make sense because they'd all have the same cost in that case. Yeah I think so. though I seem to recall my findings had the cost go up a little bit more than that. It seems close though. I mean it IS almost quadruple the cost every double the level. (I found it to be closer to quadruple each time, but never really quite there, but almost).
update:
Tracked down neo's patch 2.06b download link, re-linked it on first post so people can find it easily. Please let me know if there's any other info I might have missed for new people getting into this for the first post.
Moar update:
Eh, so I started my NG+, and things seemed to be going fine, until I noticed chen had 1000ish exp.. Bear in mind this was after my 3rd fight only. I look to see if anybody else has more experience. Most of my dudes have the proper amount, but some have more, some have as much as 50,000!. Anybody else see this happen, or how to fix it?
Sounds funny but I'm going to use the cheat engine to lower my exp now >=\
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Alright, so far I'm seeing people putting these people down as "absolute crap":
Sakuya
Cirno
Wriggle
Reisen
And the "not so bad":
Iku
Eirin
I've noted the other choices, but there's no "common" agreement between them as of yet so I won't list them right now. Anybody else who hasn't answered yet and would like to add? Donut? You're quite far in; you can give an opinion.
Here's my improvised tier list. I like to think I know what I'm talking about :S
OMGWTFGDLK??? TIER
This is special and completely independent of the actual tier list.
Flandre (Borderline A-B)
Renko (B Tier)
S Tier
Reimu
Marisa
Yuugi
Rinnosuke
Mystia
A Tier
Chen
Kaguya
Ran
Shikieiki
Utsuho
Borderline A-B
Alice
Meiling
Orin
Yuyuko
Komachi
Yuka
Kanako
Maribel
B Tier
Pachery
Swacko
Aya
Eirin
Iku
Keine
Tenshi
Sanae
Nitori
Youmu
C Tier
Remilia
Sakuya Really generous, would be in REALLY SUCK TIER w/o Lunar Dial
Minoriko
Rumia
Yukari
Mokou
Suika
You Really Suck Tier
Cirno
Wriggle
Reisen
Justifications for Contented Positions
Sikieiki in A Tier
Why? Siki
has monstrous magical damage, and isn't completely slow, to boot. However, her lowest delayed spell still has 6000 delay, and costs a whopping 240~ish MP on Siki
resources! Everything else costs around 8500. Which isn't very reassuring. Flandre
, who has debilitating delay on her attacks, have higher damage potential due to her superior ATK compared to Siki
's MAG. Siki
would probably leave A Tier limbo if her attacks came out faster and she had more resources. As it stands, though, she is staying there.
Rinnosuke in S Tier
Rhino
is someone who generally most people use at offense. However, that is a great misconception. Hihiirokane Blade is a powerful, fairly quick ST attack, there's no denying that, but that's as far as his offensive prowess goes. His REAL use is to spam World-Shaking Military Rule against bosses to make everyone super-strong, and then proceed to tank the shit out of enemy attacks. His initial defensive stats MAY leave something to be desired, considering Tenshi
and Yuugi exist, but that can easily be fixed with skill points. Rhino
is just a very solid member all around ever since the time you get him.
Yukari in C Tier
Yukarin
is a true one-trick pony on her own. All she can really do is give the party an extra turn. Without Chen and Ran in the same party, most of her attacks do dipshit in terms of damage. Now, this is excusable since you'd have either or in your party generally, but as a character in herself, she's not at all solid. Decent-ish stats, but her attacks are too quirky for what they are. Shikigami Ran+ is decent damage if the two are around, but if not, too bad. You basically need 3 people for 1 spot. >:S
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I documented the rating costs of atk/def/mnd/mag/ and speed (though not mag for physical and not attack for magic characters) of 20 different characters. The way I did it is using the cheat engine to give me oodles of points, and then I spent it on level ups until the skill up cost surpassed 100k. The final skill level for each character seems to average around 220-250 for all their stats. Where the lowest levels end at 167, and the highest was 320 (of the 20 characters I tested). Beat in mind the costs for other stats like tp and elemental resists are much higher.
I can post em here if you like.
I'm not sure what that curve fitting means exactly. is that relative to the base cost? Because there doesn't seem to be any variable dependant on anything but level in there, and that wouldn't make sense because they'd all have the same cost in that case. Yeah I think so. though I seem to recall my findings had the cost go up a little bit more than that. It seems close though. I mean it IS almost quadruple the cost every double the level. (I found it to be closer to quadruple each time, but never really quite there, but almost).
The key thing with the costs is the rating variable. A stat that rates 200 will always cost double of a stat that costs 100 to raise a level when they are on par. That also reminds me I forgot to factor in the rating for my curve-fit equation >_>. Essentially the equation looks like:
Cost = Rating * f(Level)
The core stats are rated around 50 to 400, affinities from 400 to 2000 and tp from 3000 to huge.
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Kaguya's Foe
becomes much easier when you have for characters that can actually survive a Flowing Hellfire and Reimu to switch in and heal them all. Still lost two characters due to bad luck: Patchy went down when the boss decided to use Flowing Hellfire without waiting three attacks in between for no apparent reason, and Suwako
became the victim of a random fourth-slot Slash.
Also, I've just realized that apparently my characters slowly get healed while switched out. Is this due to having a certain character in my party, or have I just not noticed it before?
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In Trance's Tier list, the main thing I greatly disagree with is C Tier. Remi, Minoriko,
Suika, and Yukari
are in there? What?
I use generally use tank set up of Meiling-Remi-Yukari
, sometimes switching Yukari
out for someone who can deal damage or heal. Yukari
is almost purely for buffing the party's defense and taking almost no damage from any MAG attack (MND level ups <3), Meiling doesn't have much trouble surviving even when buffs run low on her, and Yukari
's buffs stay high because she's so damn slow. As for Remi, Remi can buff HERSELF up, so her's stay quite high making up for her otherwise non-awesome stats and turning her into a great tank and good passive damage as well.
Yukari
is NOT for damaging in my party, she's just for massive MND (which is as high as Meiling DEF despite Meiling having a higher skill level/better equipment) and a very very useful DEF/MND party buff. Her minorly useful PAR/SPD-down spell and more useful Party Active Gauge filler are just icing on the cake.
I don't need Sanae's status healing because I've got Meiling's Healer, and although that doesn't copy Debuff healing, at this point it seems easier to simply rebuff anyway (Meiling/Yukari
can't have ATK/MAG rebuffed until I beat Final Boss v2 but its not important for Yukari
and not too bad for Meiling usually). Minoriko I find more useful because her heal will heal more, so when someone is low on HP, Minoriko is able to full heal even Meiling or Remi easily. Plus, she does this without MAG equipment, so I can pile her up on MND+ gear (or whatever else) so that when she DOES need to stay out a turn, she can take a MAG hit. Also, when she stays out for more then one move, she'll get to act much faster then Sanae due to lower delays, so she's in less danger and also heals (or on a rare occasion, buffs) my team faster.
Also, Suika
. I find her useful for her good HP/MND and then her self-buff that increases her ATK greatly and helps take care of her lower DEF. Throwing Atlas is a pretty great nuke after the self-buff, and with some gear to increase Debuff resistance, I don't have to worry about SPD-down. She's one of my great damage dealers and also one of the more easy to keep alive. Her SPD-down attack is useful against targets that are weak to debuffs as well.
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Remi is a jeigan therefore she scales worse than over 60% of the entire PC cast therefore her usefulness trickles off to the low end therefore she ends up performing less than stellar at the parts when it really matters.
Granted I formulated the list solely off of post-game content, so there will definitely be some inconsistencies.
Yukari
is NOT for damaging in my party, she's just for massive MND (which is as high as Meiling DEF despite Meiling having a higher skill level/better equipment) and a very very useful DEF/MND party buff. Her minorly useful PAR/SPD-down spell and more useful Party Active Gauge filler are just icing on the cake.
Well she is only good for her Party Active Gauge skill, really. Yeah, she has good MND, but so does every other decent tank you should be using at that point, you don't need more tanks than you already do at that point, she's just a dead weight if she didn't have the "LOL GIVE EVERYONE A TURN" skill. Okay, I am not going to chuck out her buff out the window, but seriously, you don't need her for that. Her PAR/SPD-down spell? Uhhh remember I'm basing this on after-game, where Renko
exists and therefore this entire shtick is rendered game, it goes to Renko
. Thing is, Yukari for me is just generally easily outclassed by many other characters in her respective niche, MINUS the Party Active Gauge skill, which I am not willing to permit as the sole reason for her being in B Tier
Minoriko I find more useful because her heal will heal more, so when someone is low on HP, Minoriko is able to full heal even Meiling or Remi easily. Plus, she does this without MAG equipment, so I can pile her up on MND+ gear (or whatever else) so that when she DOES need to stay out a turn, she can take a MAG hit.
How the hell does your Minoriko heal more than Sanae unless you've been giving Minoriko more skill points? This doesn't make any logical sense, it only shows you're being biased because there is no way Minoriko is going to heal more than Sanae without being given more skill points, the numbers disagree. Okay, going to concede that Mino's healing is faster, but what's she got other than that? Falling Leaves of Madness is solid offense but that is pretty much it. Sanae has Miracle Fruits AND a non-elemental row spell.
Also, Suika. I find her useful for her good HP/MND and then her self-buff that increases her ATK greatly and helps take care of her lower DEF. Throwing Atlas is a pretty great nuke after the self-buff, and with some gear to increase Debuff resistance, I don't have to worry about SPD-down. She's one of my great damage dealers and also one of the more easy to keep alive. Her SPD-down attack is useful against targets that are weak to debuffs as well.
Actually Suika's HP is completely average and many people have the same HP growth as her and are just as good if not better at slugfesting, like, say, Youmu. Yeah, Suika has a nice buff. But if you need buffs to be an awesome slugfester, you will never be an awesome slugfester. Ever. Even Alice, who mainly focuses on multi-target attacks, can potentially do more damage than Suika when both are unbuffed. Screw that Suika HAS to use her buffs before you can legitimately compare her with someone who can't buff, that is intrinsically unfair because that means you are immediately gimping another character since they can't buff. She's terribly terribly average >_>
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...okay, those are good points. I do think I can argue on Minoriko though.
How the hell does your Minoriko heal more than Sanae unless you've been giving Minoriko more skill points? This doesn't make any logical sense, it only shows you're being biased because there is no way Minoriko is going to heal more than Sanae without being given more skill points, the numbers disagree.
Minoriko's healing formula is MAG x 1.8, Sanae's is MAG. Minoriko has a MAG growth rate 2/3s of Sanae's and a decently better level-up rate, so while Sanae will still have a good bit more MAG, it couldn't hope to exceed Minoriko's heal on equal equipment/SKP/EXP gained. In your game if you tested it, Sanae might heal more even on Same-SKP-No-Equips, but that would indicate Sanae has been gaining a significantly larger amount of EXP then Minoriko has.
Okay, going to concede that Mino's healing is faster, but what's she got other than that? Falling Leaves of Madness is solid offense but that is pretty much it. Sanae has Miracle Fruits AND a non-elemental row spell.
Miracle Fruits IS one of the things Sanae has over Minoriko, this is true. However, as far as their attacks go, how often do you use Sanae or Minoriko in random battles anyway? Assuming you don't actually mean using these attacks on a boss when they should be switching out if they don't need to heal/buff.
Minoriko has MND-pierce while Sanae has normal attack damage, so I'd suppose it isn't that unbalanced even in random battles, although Sanae is probably better for that... not that random battles should be giving someone significant trouble in the first place.
Responses in bold.
I'd say the one you should use probably depends on party set-up, because Sanae might be more important then Minoriko in a party that needs her additional affects on her heal.
-
fuck
well i suppose i can see minoriko being better as a healer in the sense that she does, indeed, heal more if you put them equally (forgot that godwind was only MAG) but minoriko becomes horribly outdated if you think about it. not only does sanae have a buff you can use pretty much whenever the fuck you want, she has better resources and inches out over minoriko in terms of overall durability (sacrifices a point of MND for DEF).
anyway, i can definitely say i found more use for sanae because my team was offensively based, i have no room for two separate characters for healing.
-
I reached 23F! Lets check it out...
...
oh god 23F, WHYYY ;-;
Well, lets try the 21/22F bosses instead... nope, lost to 21F again. And 22F... fuck. I only have Meiling left. Well, Mountain Breaker does 48k...
*a really goddamn long time later*
(http://img191.imageshack.us/img191/4767/thlaby22f.th.jpg) (http://img191.imageshack.us/i/thlaby22f.jpg/)
what
-
...I don't agree with the You Really Suck tier. ...But honestly, trying to come up with a singular tier list doesn't work for this game - are we talking for random encounters or bosses (or overall), and are we talking for the main game or the post game? There's a LOT of differences to factor in - characters who rely on status effects become worse with time, for instance, because bosses and enemies seem to lean towards resisting more and more. There's also a few cases where characters deserve to have multiple slots based on other conditions (Such as
Eirin and Komachi do stupidly well paired together, or Yukari's rank being apparently largely reliant on Chen and Ran being in present
)
...Namely I have had my ass saved a whole lot by Cirno's PAR on random encounters stopping stuff from attacking early long enough for my actual heavy hitters to take them out.
As for Wriggle, I sat down and did some theoretical calculations, just to see what would actually happen. This post is important (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php?topic=4614.msg222960#msg222960)
Let's assume level 60 and the enemy has 0 PSN resistance. Comet On Earth (PSN power is 120).
(Spell's PSN strength * User's Level) * (1.00 + Users's Level * 0.03)
=(120 * 60) * (1.00 + (60 * 0.03))
=(7200) * (2.8 )
=20160
Every count in battle deals out 2% of this in damage (403) and reduces it by 0.75% of its current value.
It's been a long time since I've done formulaic math. Someone will need to figure it out for me as to what the formula to figure it out actually is, but remember this: It's 100 'count' for a full gauge refill at a speed of 100. It'll be far less before Wriggle can attack and 'refill' the poison. For that given level, I'd assume a speed of 140-150 is safe, which would reduce it to 50 'count' for a full gauge. A rough estimate puts the delay on Comet On Earth at about 60% of the wait gauge - so only 30 count remains. That's small enough to estimate - given that it's dropping less than 1% each count, the effect taking place 30 times can be estimated out to, I think, a fair 30*350 damage, or 10500 extra damage in the time it would take her to cast Comet On Earth again at level 60. Again, this is all rough.
...Unfortunately, her actual attack formula sucks.
So how does this compare to Firefly Phenomenon, which is at least a bit better for damage formula?
(Spell's PSN strength * User's Level) * (1.00 + Users's Level * 0.03)
=(90 * 60) * (1.00 + 60 * 0.03)
=5400 * 2.8
=15120
Rough delay of Firefly Phenomenon looks to be 70%, so we can assume 35 ticks between uses
Damage Per Tic (302) over 35 tics = approximately a 15% average loss(?), so ~250*35
Added damage between each use of Firefly Phenomenon is 8750
...Hmm.
Now, of course, this is assuming we're talking about using it repeatedly. The fact is that it remains until it drains out. If someone can actually put together a good formula, we may be able to get the actual total added damage for inflicting Comet On Earth at a certain level. It'd actually be much higher as the damage would still be dealt for a fairly long time - it should be, I think, over twice the estimated amount of added damage, assuming no PSN resistance.
Also I feel like her obscenely high ailment resistances and good levelling speed deserve at least some factoring into her stature.
Regardless, I feel like we need some actual numbers to go off of for Wriggle, to get a grasp of how well she actually does what she's supposed to, before we post her. If we get a formula that we can plug in we can actually get some numbers at given levels and figure out exactly how much she's doing beyond what it says. I don't expect a complete upset, but...
-
So I grinded a bit by exploring 16F and ran into
Yukari
, only to be slaughtered by her in two turns. :V
Yeah, I should probably go back and you know, beat Mokou, Flandre, Great Stamp, Yuyuko? Orin?
and such. ::)
But damn, Mokou
gets fast after Resurrection
. It's going to be hard to fire a spark at her.
-
So I grinded a bit by exploring 16F and ran into Yukari
, only to be slaughtered by her in two turns. :V
Yeah, I should probably go back and you know, beat Mokou, Flandre, Great Stamp, Yuyuko? Orin?
and such. ::)
You probably should. Yuyuko and Mokou I was definitely able to beat long before I could survive F16 long enough to actually reach Yukari. Yuyuko you just want to make sure everyone's got, like, 30+ DTH resist (40+ on your openers to survive Flawless Nirvana starter) and I think it's SPI resist; Mokou is just a case of managing to save up a fully charged/MAG-buffed Marisa in the back and then bumrushing her during the final phase at your level. You could also try throwing a crapload of FIR resist on Meiling or Komachi and having them out so as to hopefully tank the heck out of Fujiyama
-
Trance talked about this topic, I figured I'd toss my own impressions in. Note that I feel even the "bottom" tier chars are useful in some situations - but people higher may do their job better/have more options/better stats. In other words, to me, -all characters have some relative worth-. Anyone in parenthesis is aftergame, and this is entirely subjective (top tier Chen didn't tip you off? But I had no better boss slugger for the main game or even through much of aftergame)
Regarding "what are the tiers for" I just went with overall worth - both in randoms and against bosses, mostly. Some are very high for only randoms (Mystia
comes to mind here, but she's godlike - and sadly aftergame) - for those, while Chen chews through bosses but arguably isn't as useful against randoms.
Tier 1: Reimu, Marisa, Chen, Yuugi, Ran
, Kaguya
, Rinnosuke
, (Mystia, DEAR GOD Mystia
, Sikieiki
)
Tier 2: Alice, Komachi
, China, Suwako
, Orin
, Aya, (Renko
, Kanako
)
Tier 3: Iku
, Yukari
, Tenshi
, Sanae
, Yuyuko
, Patchy, Flandre
, (Maribel
, Yuka
)
Tier 4: Sakuya, Remilia, Mokou
, Suika
, Eirin
, Nitori
, Youmu, (Keine
)
Tier THE STRONGEST: Cirno, Wriggle, Rumia, Reisen
, Minoriko
Tier What The Goddamn Hell Is Wrong With You: Flandre
, (Renko
)
General comments:
Cirno: I couldn't resist making the final tier tier THE STRONGEST. In practicality she's probably in between tiers, but... I'm not fond of her low damage, even if it's a rather useful element. The paralysis is always (n)ice, tho.
Minoriko: ...I can see the arguments here (faster healing, better mult offsets worse MAG growth) but Sanae's more versatile and IIRC manages better stats overall. Useful, definitely, but not good enough for me to justify her.
Wriggle: Do you care about POIZN? My playstyle says no. Others may say yes, and so she'd jump pretty high.
Willing to comment more on other's positions, but that's all for now.
NeoGenesis: I took on the F21/22 sigil bosses... when I hit F25? So uhm. Work on getting through F23, F24's pretty decent leveling grounds -once- you're able to kill a certain random whenever it pops up. Good luck. EDITEDIT: And be very careful on the F21 boss. Fightspoiler in spoilercomments. Less HP by leagues than F22 (6M to 10M or so), but far better defenses -and- every time he does Demon Slashing Dance his attack doubles. This, unlike every other buff in the game, not only doesn't wear off, it -stacks-. You will be dead if he chooses to use it three times, no question. Kill before that.
-
And
Mokou
goes down!
50% speed boost and an over 100k damage Master Spark made sure she never even fired a shot. :D
What to do now? The 10F "something will happen later" event still does nothing and Flandre
is still hard as hell.
I guess I'll try to beat Great Stamp
.
-
If something still hasn't happened, you need to grind with that character until they have enough BP for the event to activate.
Also, floor 20 is very fun to grind on, mostly because fighting just one enemy, going back and saving means I get to use World-Shaking Military Rule over and over. :D Reimu's currently level 118.
-
What character? Youmu?
But I haven't used her all game! D:
-
What character? Youmu?
But I haven't used her all game! D:
If you want The experience from the boss fights to get Yuyuko and Orin
, you'd better get crackin'. :3 You'd be grinding anyway.
-
What character? Youmu?
But I haven't used her all game! D:
It's only 200 BP you need for her (1 for every battle started with her, 1 for every battle ended with her out).
She's not too bad for random encounters honestly. But start grinding now while that's still true.
-
Hmm, I probably should replace Cirno with someone else for this fight, considering she's speed-debuff resistant...but it always feels wrong when you bench someone you've used the whole game for the final battle. :'(
Also, yowza Mary and her little limbs
is ridiculous once all three add-ons are summoned. Any tips, or is this just a no holds barred smackdown?
-
Also, yowza Mary and her little limbs
is ridiculous once all three add-ons are summoned. Any tips, or is this just a no holds barred smackdown?
10000% buff for me, 5000% debuff for her.
-
It was close, but I just managed to defeat
Flandre
on my second try. She had just wiped my active party (apart from Tenshi
) with L?vatein
, and I only had Patchy and Suwako
left in reserve. I brought in Patchy for a final desperation attack, and apparently one Silent Selene was enough to finish her off.
And now to grind for the 16F boss battle, I suppose.
-
Donut, aim for the top first. It's the most problematic with it's ailments and buffs and such AND it has the lowest HP. The boss and all her limbs are invincible until all three are summoned, but you still need to cause X amount of damage for her to summon more. Once the top is dead, go for the one on the right lest you face Scourge spam. The left one should fall very quickly to fire.
From there, I'd just suggest nuking her while doing while having Reimu heal and buff when healing is unneeded. She shouldn't last TOO long. Hopefully. >_>
-
How is Youmu for the final boss? I've neglected her until now, but I saw in a video that she can do a LOT against her. Also I've got 70k skill points, so...
-
How is Youmu for the final boss? I've neglected her until now, but I saw in a video that she can do a LOT against her. Also I've got 70k skill points, so...
Youmu is very powerful. I was surprised when she turned up on the "suck tier" in people's opinions.
-
The thing is, even with her super SP recovery, that's still wasting two turns on something that a normal character could be using to attack. However, that video depicting her dealing 100k to each limb and the final boss was something else (though this guy also was hilariously overleveled, to the point where she didn't even get to attack once all limbs were down).
EDIT: Wow, I actually got close to defeating the first bloody seal. I made it all the way to his "lol I OHKO everyone no exceptions" final attack phase.
-
Youmu's slow (so is Yuugi), painfully less powerful than Yuugi, and has worse defensive stats.
This being said, she does MT far better than Yuugi... but for random-clearing, Youmu's speed creates issues, and against bosses, Yuugi's better defensive stats and better ST+ATK stat makes her more solid.
If the opponent walls fire, though, Youmu shines, and against slow randoms Youmu cleans house easy.
-
I can't figure out what to do on floor 5... I explored everywhere I can and I still need more battles to recruit Yuugi. Is there something i'm missing?
-
I can't figure out what to do on floor 5... I explored everywhere I can and I still need more battles to recruit Yuugi. Is there something i'm missing?
You need 500 total random battles for Yuugi, I believe. Just come back later.
-
So I can't continue the game until I get Yuugi?
-
So I can't continue the game until I get Yuugi?
Of course you can! :3
-
Nope, she isn't a load-bearing ally or anything. You can delay getting her as long as you want. (She's just shiny.)
-
But I can't tell at all where to go on floor 5. I think I explored all of it and I can't find any stairs or working Warps.
-
But I can't tell at all where to go on floor 5. I think I explored all of it and I can't find any stairs or working Warps.
You beat that spirity midboss thingy at the lower right of 5F, right? After the Sake Spring in that corner? The warp at the lower left from your starting circle, it should work now.
-
Uhhh theres a Mid-boss?
Guess I must have missed one passage somewhere then.
Anyways how strong is this Mid-Boss?
-
Uhhh theres a Mid-boss?
Guess I must have missed one passage somewhere then.
Anyways how strong is this Mid-Boss?
Not hard, but that bastard loved to prolong the fight with Destroy Magic spam. I was never in danger of dying, but losing all SP from my active party was an annoyance.
My party was around level 19-20 at the time. I actually did this earlier today. I need to finish exploring that corner of the map a bit more since I left to save after beating it, after that I'll see how hard the enemies on floor 6 are.
-
I keep forgetting to ask this, but Neogenesis, why do you keep acting like Greenie's healing power is bad?
Yes, she doesn't have as good a healing formula, but right now mine heals ~5000 HP. My party's HP, starting with my two tanks, is 4515, 5161, 5309, 3600, 4963 (Reimu), 4435, 4857, 1867 (Patchy), 3935 (herself), 3186 (Marisa), 4163 (Chen), and 7197 (Meiling).
Out of those only the last one, Meiling, is not either fully healed or close to fully healed from one cast, and even then it's only 2000 damage that Meiling can restore to herself if she's ever out (which she's normally not... she's my backup tank after all).
I'm aware of all Minoriko's advantages, but honestly, I don't think either is directly superior to the other... I'd say they're both on par with one another and the one you use should depend entirely on your team setup (if not both... never hurts to have more than one healer after all).
-
Last attempt: I actually killed the top limb. o/
Any idea on the HP of the limbs?
-
800k for top, 1 million for left, 1.2 million for right, IIRC.
Those COULD be for the v.2 version later on.
-
I doubt thats the V.2 HP counts, as it's far to low for V.2s. I noticed that most V.2 bosses have about 2 million HP, so the Final Boss V.2s Add-ons having anything less then that seems unlikly to me.
-
Eeh heh heh, I love grinding on floor 20. You get so much experience and so many skill points you can see your lolis grow at a massive rate. Reimu's now at level 126~ I'll have this beaten in no time even if I have to overlevel~
-
Reccomended level for the Final Boss is sumthing like 140+ for beating it with skillz and I think 150+ for not-so-skillz/more likly to win.
-
Really? I did it at Donut's level right now. 125ish.
-
Really? I did it at Donut's level right now. 125ish.
I recall it being said that 130 is the reccomended level, so it's not surprising you can win it at slightly less like that.
Also worth noting is that the first blood-stained seal boss's reccomended level is only level 120, which means you could beat them first for the EXP and then move on to the last one.
-
...I don't agree with the You Really Suck tier. ...But honestly, trying to come up with a singular tier list doesn't work for this game - are we talking for random encounters or bosses (or overall), and are we talking for the main game or the post game? There's a LOT of differences to factor in - characters who rely on status effects become worse with time, for instance, because bosses and enemies seem to lean towards resisting more and more. There's also a few cases where characters deserve to have multiple slots based on other conditions (Such as Eirin and Komachi do stupidly well paired together, or Yukari's rank being apparently largely reliant on Chen and Ran being in present
)
...Namely I have had my ass saved a whole lot by Cirno's PAR on random encounters stopping stuff from attacking early long enough for my actual heavy hitters to take them out.
As for Wriggle, I sat down and did some theoretical calculations, just to see what would actually happen. This post is important (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php?topic=4614.msg222960#msg222960)
In case it wasn't clear, I was referring to post-game general usage. Of course, everyone is going to have their niches, and everyone is usable to some extent, given the right measures are taken. I've killed the final 30F boss with a party of Cirno/Rumia/Sanae/Minoriko, this is not hard. However, this is objective, general usage. Cirno / Wriggle et. al have their good points, I am not chucking them out and dismissing them entirely. The truth of the matter is, almost every other character is better than them in one shape or form. Even Sakuya's damage of shittiness is offset by Lunar Dial alone, which is an extremely amazing buff for the majority of the game and CAN find potential in a post-game setting.
Theorycrafting and mathcrafting to justify a placement of a character can only go so far, especially when you've gone so far as to do immensely crazy things with the game just 'cause you feel like it. Anyway, I just genuinely say that they are placed there 'cause they don't have much on their person to lift them from "suck".
I keep forgetting to ask this, but Neogenesis, why do you keep acting like Greenie's healing power is bad?
I'm aware of all Minoriko's advantages, but honestly, I don't think either is directly superior to the other... I'd say they're both on par with one another and the one you use should depend entirely on your team setup (if not both... never hurts to have more than one healer after all).
NeoGenesis isn't acting like her power is bad per se, he was merely contesting my initial concern that Minoriko shouldn't be outhealing Sanae
. The fact of the matter is, Minoriko objectively heals more HP than Sanae
, but doesn't get all the quirks that Sanae
's heal does, AND Minoriko has ostensibly less MAG anyway so the following follows:
- Minoriko is better for raw healing, decent offense, not much else
- Good Girl has significantly worse healing, but it has status recovery, ALSO she has Miracle Fruits
- It is a very bad idea to have both of them out at the same time
Supplementary:
Minoriko's heal = MAG*1.8
Sanae
's heal = MAG
Minoriko's heal scales better than Sanae
over the long term, but still loses out because it means you need ANOTHER person to recover status, whereas Sanae
has less output, BUT has the added benefit of healing status. Also Miracle Fruits.
-
You probably don't need to worry about Sanae's heal being weaker until Plus-Disk, unless you're meaning healing Komachi. The delay makes a big effect though whenever you leave her out over a turn.
But yeah, whichever you should use depends mostly on whether you need the additional effects of Sanae's heal. A team that usually has Meiling out tanking (which I have found to be supremely effective, at least so far. Soloing 22F boss while apparently underleveled, tee hee :V) doesn't need Sanae, at least not as much, and quite frankly to full-heal Meiling whenever she's in desperately low HP (Although her self-heal should usually avoid that) you'd need Minoriko anyway.
They're both p.cool, it depends on your party setup really. I was just trying to say that Minoriko doesn't deserve to be in the lowest tier (save the "You just plain suck ass" tier reserved for basically useless people).
-
In my opinion good healing and good damage alone is not enough to get out of there, which is kind of the reason why characters like Remilia and Suika are stuck there, too. They have decent niches, but it's not enough to get them out of their little rut, and there are just better characters out there. To be quite honest, I've found a lot of use out of Sanae, at least way more than Minoriko as soon as I got her, mainly because I run minimal tanking (Tenshi fit this role pretty well. Defensive tanking, takes ITD less than Meiling, but can withstand a shitton of attacks, that way I can have two heavily offensive guys instead of just one).
They're both p.cool, it depends on your party setup really. I was just trying to say that Minoriko doesn't deserve to be in the lowest tier (save the "You just plain suck ass" tier reserved for basically useless people).
Eh, comparatively speaking, the difference between B and C isn't a huge one, but it is definitely on a fundamental level.
-
If their is a better character then Remi, then please tell me who, cause I used her trhought the game and Plus-Disk and she was fantastic, only being beaten out in dps by
Sikieiki
, and even then she must use her 1st card to out-dps Remi.
-
I must ask why
Mystia
is so good. I used her a few times and just didn't find anything very great about her. Average dps, somewhat squishy, nifty but very situational debuff reversal, what else could she have?
-
Milkyway, I think part of that chars purpose is that she can cause PSN and PAR at the same time, and both ailments being decently better then Komachi's PSN-and-PAR move
-
Theorycrafting and mathcrafting to justify a placement of a character can only go so far, especially when you've gone so far as to do immensely crazy things with the game just 'cause you feel like it.
To a certain extent I agree... but I'd still like to actually get some damn numbers pinned down with Wriggle. ESPECIALLY since PSN's damage will always be the same based on what her level is, unlike everyone else who can be twinked out - it'd be nice to see if her bonus damage formulas from that actually make up for her low attack power or if it really is a relatively useless result.
Milkyway, I think part of that chars purpose is that she can cause PSN and PAR at the same time, and both ailments being decently better then Komachi's PSN-and-PAR move
That sounds about right, but Komachi has the secondary use of actually being able to tank like a sonovabitch (ESPECIALLY in the Plus Disk where there's lots of foes with incredibly dangerous defense-piercing moves, which Komachi is undeniably the best tank against). Mystia
has the advantage of being faster and having those effects be a bit stronger (though still not on par with Wriggle and Suwako), as well as obscene ailment resistance and the ability to not just heal status ailments on an ally, but transform debuffs into buffs. She's just frail as heck.
-
Does Floor 6 even have a Relay Point?
-
Does Floor 6 even have a Relay Point?
I hadn't found one yet. I had called it a night just after I beat the guardian for the seal below the 5th floor entrance. Once you take it there's another staircase to the 6th floor.
-
So I grinded for 100 encounters with Youmu and have the event unlocked! o/
Gained like 6 levels and accumulated over 250k skillpoints! /o/
It's amazing how fast grinding can be when your watching TV at the same time. :V
Now to find Yuyuko
~
-
Now to find Yuyuko
~
If you've fully explored it you should see her on F14.
Unless you missed another one of the events required to unlock her.
-
Regarding
Mystia
, a better way to look at her is Super-Cirno.
Very very VERY fast MT PAR with duration only behind Suwako (80 ticks to 90 for Suwako or something?) (and it adds PSN to boot!) off a pretty solidish ATK stat and hitting a kinda rarish element (NTR isn't rare, but strong NTR attacks are, and this is pretty good), a quick hit skill, Komachi-level PAR + NE MT solid damage, and the status removal + statdown reversal skill.
The paralysis alone cheesed me through the aftergame, and she's been useful as a slot 3 for me on F30.
Komachi's
durable, yes, but slower, so she can't get the PAR off before the team gets nuked more often than not. (Then again, I use both; F7's HP and resistances help a lot on this floor at times and the offense isn't terrible. Not... great, but not terrible.)
-
So I recruited
Iku
Is she worth using at all around Floor 6?
And I had to fight that St. Elmos Fire twice because I accidentally hit escape.
-
It's amazing how fast grinding can be when your watching TV at the same time. :V
I played through the Plus Disk (until 30F anyway) watching 7 seasons of South Park. Would have liked to have watched some anime instead, but I couldn't be arsed to pay attention to subtitles.
-
Two and a half men marathon over here. :V
-
So I recruited Iku
Is she worth using at all around Floor 6?
And I had to fight that St. Elmos Fire twice because I accidentally hit escape.
Iku
's one of those characters whose usefulness is largely determined by who else is in the party. She can buff ATK and debuff DEF as her main advantages, and so using her in a party with physical attackers obviously increases her usefulness greatly. On the other hand if your party is largely magical damage, throw her away. Regardless, don't worry too much about the PAR effect - just make sure to have PAR resistance equipment on anyone you plan on actually buffing (You only need 34 to have complete immunity, and anything at 30+ is like a 10% or less chance and if it does hit it'll barely have an effect) and it should be fine.
She's also the first character you'll have that can buff someone else's ATK until the character you get after the F9 boss.
-
Doesn't
Iku
also increase MAG by 50%?
Anyway, just beat Yuyuko
.
Just waltzed right in the fight without any preparations whatsoever and beat her first try.
I think I'm overleveled now. :V
EDIT
Woops
-
About what level would be good for trying to take on
Yukari
? Right now Reimu is level 82, but my other characters range between Suika and Yuyuko
at level 69 (but that's because I've never really used them) and Chen at level 87.
And I do have around 550k skillpoints just kind of sitting there. Would defence or mind be the best choice to invest in for the upcoming battle?
-
Doesn't Iku
also increase MAG by 50%?
Anyway, just beat Yuyuko
.
Just waltzed right in the fight without any preparations whatsoever and beat her first try.
I think I'm overleveled now. :V
EDIT
Woops
Does she? It's been a long time since I've used her. I had her for a tiny bit then dropkicked her because my party is almost all magic damage except for Yuugi right now, and I had other things I needed more than that buff.
Also, it's no surprise. I took her out after fully exploring F14. You've fully explored F16. If it had been hard for you, I'd be surprised (Or you'd just have gotten bad luck with DTH effects).
YCZ: You should be at about a good level, if I remember right from other's recommendations. And I believe the majority of her attacks are magic.
...Though shouldn't you be working on ASMT?
...Just kidding n.n; I can't blame you if this is your break from working on that. It's hard enough to follow everything that's going on there from the perspective of someone who doesn't need to, nevermind the project manager @_@
-
Doesn't Iku
also increase MAG by 50%?
It looks like she does.
But then again she makes a nice replacement for Wriggle in the Damage department.
-
Theorycrafting and mathcrafting to justify a placement of a character can only go so far, especially when you've gone so far as to do immensely crazy things with the game just 'cause you feel like it.
I've heard that from countless people, talking about countless games.
The thing about theorycrafting is, it's only wrong when the theorycrafter fails to factor something significant in, or when the rules of the game aren't fully understood. I'm trying to theorycraft character dps for this game, and the reason why it's so slow, is because I'm factoring in everything I can think of. Now granted, you can't "math" if a character is good or bad, that I agree with. But you CAN math how much dps they can do. You can accurately theorycraft EXACTLY how good each character is for dps and damage mitigation, and it's up to the player to decide if their stats in those catagories outweigh any advantages or disadvantages included such as utility, buffs, etc.
I personally think Remi is one of the best characters, but I haven't fully theorycrafted that material yet, so I wont really argue about it. But I played her post game too, up to level 450, and I cheated myself up to the 600s just to see winner. Now I know I didn't level up quite so much as you, but I really think that level 450 is pretty much the end of the game. I also saw no indication of Remi's dps getting worse.
I THINK that people underestimate her dps because they treat her as an offtank. They focus on her defensive stats more than her offensive ones, they spend level up points on defensive stats. Then they try and compare her dps to characters that have their level up points spent on offensive stats, that's just what I suspect. I spend my level up points on defensive stats for her too, but I do the same for everyone else (minus characters like chen whose defensive stats are so bad that you'll never really notice it, skill points should be enough for her).
Anyway I don't mean to argue anything yet at this point until I'm done my work, and when it is done if anybody disagrees with it, I'll be open-minded about it, and will really look at things I might ha ve missed or need to re-calculate. I still wont use it solely to determine if a character is good or not however.
Theorycrafting naysayers (not saying you are one, sounds like you're on the fence about it to me) bother me however, because they always doubt the work when they see it. And then all of a sudden they think it's stones from moses as soon as it gets reccommended to them by someone they respect for whatever reason. I know in WoW I theorycrafted all kinds of s hit, and people made fun of me for it. And then the shit appears on elitist jerks 2 years later, and wham, people suddenly thing everyone that doesn't follow every line on there to the LETTER are dumb noobs *facedesk*. agghahg. MAJOR pet-peeve of mine.
Iku's one of those characters whose usefulness is largely determined by who else is in the party. She can buff ATK and debuff DEF as her main advantages, and so using her in a party with physical attackers obviously increases her usefulness greatly. On the other hand if your party is largely magical damage, throw her away. Regardless, don't worry too much about the PAR effect - just make sure to have PAR resistance equipment on anyone you plan on actually buffing (You only need 34 to have complete immunity, and anything at 30+ is like a 10% or less chance and if it does hit it'll barely have an effect) and it should be fine.
I understand that myself, but debuffing def is really a dumb feature. The bosses who have high defense (tanks who join you basically, that's about all of them, none of the non tank characters, nor the mook bosses really have a decent def count), are always immune I find. It's really dumb. As for her buff, yes buffing that stat is good. However, it comes with a paralize, which is worth it if she's your only source of buffing those stats yes. But there are so many other characters who buff those stats too, WITHOUT a nasty paralize. To boot, her buff isn't even a significantly better one! I can understand adding such a side effect if you buffed by like 80% or something, but she doesn't.
All this could make her a good character despite this provided her defensive stats were good, and her attack magic is powerful, but again, they aren't. Furthermore, she has the crutch of having no elemental variety, it's all one element. She's just bad IMO. Her attack magic is average, her defensive stats is slightly below average, and her buff utility is really pretty situational based on who is in your party, and the fact is I don't really see why you shoudln't just have someone else who can buff those stats in your party instead....Except for the fact that she's the first one to join, that's it.
Insert Quote
I must ask why Mystia is so good. I used her a few times and just didn't find anything very great about her. Average dps, somewhat squishy, nifty but very situational debuff reversal, what else could she have?
I haven't used her, and everyone is talking about her paralize. But looking at her on paper, her first nuke looks amazing honestly. Her atk growth is 10, which is 2 better than chen's, and her level up speed is also great, not as good as chen's, but the combination of both combined IS better than chen's.
Combine that with the only 2(2Atck - def/2) nuke in the game with such a small delay, and I THINK she can potentially dish out VERY respectable dps. Her other features are icing. It's worth mentioning that the debuff reversal is actually quite handy super late game IMO too. I know my entire party had like 30 stat debuff resistance. Despite this, I was having 30F bosses debuff practically EVERY STAT of my entire damn party in ONE MOVE, on a regular basis to boot!.. Honestly, whever I read that dth is the only effect where the enemy has more than 100% chance of success, I strongly feel that's wrong. (some boss silenced remi like 4 times in a row... My remi had 32 sil resist. I REAAAALY doubt I just had bad luck).
Anyway I'm on my 2nd playthru again, and this time I have yuyuko in my party. she's pretty useless early game however. I mean she can only cast one spell before having no sp (like many other characters), and she's unuseable for bosses because they all have no dth resist! I don't want to cheap 1shot them all the time. wahhh.
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Djinn Storm is not a very nice move. Especially so when it is used right before you are going to switch in a full-SP Marisa for some Master Sparking action. At least she doesn't seem to spam it... But still, all I can do about it seems to be focusing and hoping that
Tenshi
has enough self-buff left to survive until I can start switching in my attackers again.
...Though shouldn't you be working on ASMT?
So that is why I recognize your name.
Well, I need a break every once in a while... And most of the problems people discover only take a few seconds to fix, anyway.
EDIT: STOP SPAMMING FLYING INSECT'S NEST ALREADY
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Ghaleon, the early bosses do have some DTH resist, but it varies between bosses I think. On my playthrough, I DTHed Youmu and her partner with use of
Komachi's Narrow Confines
then proceded to laugh like crazy. I then tried DTHing the next bosses, has not worked since, so it won't break the game wide open to use moves that have DTH effects.
By the way, what the rule for names and spoiler-tagging? Everyone past the 2nd page of characters or sumthin?
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I think that the general consensus is spoiler tags for everyone past floor 5.
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I think that the general consensus is spoiler tags for everyone past floor 5.
Everyone still seems to slip up, though.
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Iku
hits Wind resist with her spells (and punctures MND well with the final skill), meaning that unless a floor walls WND she's a solid choice for a while. Her own MND/HP combo's solid... but don't expect much from her against physicals. This being said, slow, mono-elemental, mono-offense (hits MND) means that she is rather niche, despite her DEF-dropping (I found that pretty useful, actually. It's a good debuff, though Komachi
does it better, kinda) and buff (though PAR is something you should try to defend anyway, so the side effect isn't too cumbersome).
Overall, solid probably up till about F18 with a few dead floors (F7, F17 are the two that I recall giving WND damage fits).
Regarding Remi, she is tanky and has competent ST NE phys damage, with the buff that isn't terrible. But... mmm. I'm gonna reference some work a friend did here regarding the damage.
Spear the Gugnir (24 SP): 48391 physical damage. 5000 delay. ACC+30
AVG Damage: 60897.28
AVG Delay: 5934.38
Of note here? It's faster than average, and not terribly under average (and this is pre-buff; see Trance a bit on buffs, but I like self-buffers more). Said buff also buffs her defenses, allowing her to tank better.
It also doesn't factor in equips, mind (which Remilia benefits more from on average IIRC, having naturally high ATK/DEF/HP/SPD), nor does it follow quite what you said regarding growth (to get this, the person boosted all skills to around where they cost 6k for another level, then distributed level up points in the same proportion as they did skills. No points were put in unused offensive stats (MAG, here) or EVA because that'd be silly, but points were invested in resistances). She ends up physically very tanky, magically durable, with a competent buff and damage set and very good resistances to anything not SPI/MYS.
All this is a long-winded way to say that Remilia's solid, sure, and she benefits highly from use - her high level-up cost (IIRC) penalizes dropping her early and trying to pick her back up late. It also further reinforces my opinion that the game is, indeed, quite well designed on the character end. So! >_>
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Oh, since there's a few of you that have gotten a NG+ file with all the characters...
Would anyone be nice enough to make a save file and upload it somewhere with everyone unlocked, but back at F1 (Basically a fresh NG+)? For those of us who don't want to go through THE WINRAGER or want to mess around, etc. etc. ; it should work in 2.04, right?
Just curious.
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it should work in 2.04, right?
Just curious.
You have to recruit the characters (That is, the events that would normally recruit them) in 2.06 or else they'll get sent back to level 1. For example, if you fought Youmu on 2F in 2.04, then after the battle your Youmu would be level 1 again.
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Everyone still seems to slip up, though.
For some of them I question if they even deserve to be spoilered. If you open the manual several of the characters are right there. That includes Iku (top-right), Mokou (bottom-right), Komachi, Ran, and Reisen (mid to bottom left). Yukari's there, but maybe that could be left a mystery since she's still the main suspect by several members of the cast.
And if it's about them actually joining you, well I think those people are just being silly. Who else could you reasonably expect to recruit, especially going by the characters who have already joined you?
Hopefully none of the other characters have battle sprites as terrifying as Alice's when you have to beat her down. It was pretty (http://i163.photobucket.com/albums/t299/Barrakketh/Emoticons/gonk.gif) Wriggle was very useful for that fight. I have no idea how much damage Firefly Phenomenon did to the group but once Healing Light was down I don't think either of the remaining dolls lasted for more than three or four attacks.
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You have to recruit the characters (That is, the events that would normally recruit them) in 2.06 or else they'll get sent back to level 1. For example, if you fought Youmu on 2F in 2.04, then after the battle your Youmu would be level 1 again.
Would that be level 1 with the experience or no?
Either way I'm actually rather okay with that. I still want a save file to mess around with, even if I have to swap over to 2.06 once in a while.
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Would that be level 1 with the experience or no?
I... don't know. I haven't personally done NG+ yet. I'd assume their EXP value isn't changed, but this means if you already leveled them up then you'll lose that.
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Hopefully none of the other characters have battle sprites as terrifying as Alice's when you have to beat her down. It was pretty (http://i163.photobucket.com/albums/t299/Barrakketh/Emoticons/gonk.gif)
It was the freakest thing I have ever seen in a touhou game...
Now why am I about to set it as my Avatar...
Anyways these Sword enemies on Floor 7 are annoying,
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Oh, since there's a few of you that have gotten a NG+ file with all the characters...
Would anyone be nice enough to make a save file and upload it somewhere with everyone unlocked, but back at F1 (Basically a fresh NG+)? For those of us who don't want to go through THE WINRAGER or want to mess around, etc. etc. ; it should work in 2.04, right?
Just curious.
Yeah sure, I'll do that now.
when I started a new game however, some of the characters had thousands of exp for some reason, just a heads up. so it'll take me awhile to cheat their exp back down to 0.
I also beat cirno in 2.04 after ng+ing. I was NOT using her in my party, so she was already level one. I DID however notice that her exp did NOT fall bakc down to 0, and I think she was one of hte few characters whose exp actually started at 0 when I NG+ed.. Though I'm not sure. anyway, after I re-recruited her, her exp was actually higher than everyone else who I wasn't using that didn't have the random thousands of exp at the beginning.
I think that when you re-recruit them in 2.04 it keeps their current exp, and then it re-assigns the 80% of reimu's exp thing, so you infact gain exp.. Not sure, just keep that in mind.
anyway I'm off to make the save file now, I'll post it on the front post when it's ready.
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Yeah sure, I'll do that now.
when I started a new game however, some of the characters had thousands of exp for some reason, just a heads up. so it'll take me awhile to cheat their exp back down to 0.
I also beat cirno in 2.04 after ng+ing. I was NOT using her in my party, so she was already level one. I DID however notice that her exp did NOT fall bakc down to 0, and I think she was one of hte few characters whose exp actually started at 0 when I NG+ed.. Though I'm not sure. anyway, after I re-recruited her, her exp was actually higher than everyone else who I wasn't using that didn't have the random thousands of exp at the beginning.
I think that when you re-recruit them in 2.04 it keeps their current exp, and then it re-assigns the 80% of reimu's exp thing, so you infact gain exp.. Not sure, just keep that in mind.
anyway I'm off to make the save file now, I'll post it on the front post when it's ready.
Thanks a lot 8D
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Would that be level 1 with the experience or no?
Either way I'm actually rather okay with that. I still want a save file to mess around with, even if I have to swap over to 2.06 once in a while.
I think the exp will reset back up to the original. It probably was a bug, but when I defeated Cirno in V2.06, my Cirno returned to lvl 1(I lvl up everyone for no reason), but I had enough exp to re-lvl her up to 9.
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Thanks a lot 8D
Ok sorry, I can't figure out the addresses for some of the character's exp. I zeroed out more than half of them, but the other half gives me thousands of resulsts with the same value (even wonky ones like 572846 ffs). and I can't exactly gain exp and re-search without undoing my OTHER zero'd characters. too lazy to re-do it at this point. I'll research when I just play naturally later on, and eventually I'll get all their addresses nailed, at which point I'll re-upload a better file where everyone is truly zero'd
Here's my fixed save file, everyone is 0 now, yay
http://www.megaupload.com/?d=CJ38R646
It's save 2, so just rename it to 1 or 3 if you like.
edit: err, apparently using save 1 for the cheat file works better.. expect a fix soon.
I fixed it, re-uploaded. re-check link (it changed) for the better file
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How do I use this and what save will it overwrite in its present state? I want to try this using a party formed sole on if I like the character or not.
Nevermind got it to work...
Why do I want to try the game with a single crazily overly Skill Point buffed character now?
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Welp, beat
Orin, Great Stamp and Flandre
.
I have nowhere to go but to Yukari
. From what I've seen though, I can take her on.
I got to the part where she puts up the barrier.
Reimu is level 77 and Chen 84.
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So Jaimers, you mean
when she has used Djinn Storm like twice, starts using a crazy buff and then goes about kicking your ass? You basicly have to kill her before she does any of that last bit or you lose :ohdear: But thankfully, she only has 200k or so HP left when she does that.
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Been playing off and on here lately. Reimu lv303, took out 27F boss. Two tries and that was only because boss was a prick and Djinn Storm'd the party on it's 2nd turn. Couldn't really mount a decent offense before getting wiped by Rankain (Oh wow now I know what that does if it's used several times in a row).
2nd attempt wasn't even that serious of a try. Decides to start setting up its Rankain attack on its 2nd turn. Good thing I knew that Reimu could take the attack with a little defense buffing. Remi and 7F girl got kapwned, I swapped in 26F girl and someone else to start doing damage.
Eventually I brought in a MAG-buffed (~80% ish) Marisa to pull off Master Spark. Did ~1m to boss...and it died? Oh wow it did not have that much HP then because I don't think I did more than 3-4 mil HP of dmg (Can't remember) before that Master Spark.
Not complaining about the ZUN Hat drop, that's for sure.
Only thing I have left to do is try to figure out how I'm gonna deal with Utsuho
. I tried once to fight her back before I took on 24F girl and got rolled in record time thanks to Uncontainable Nuclear Explosion
doing way more damage compared to some of the stuff she pulled off previously and Game Over'ing after it got casted for the 2nd time.
I can only imagine a high FIR affinity is going to be needed. Any little hints about this fight would be nice.
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So Jaimers, you mean when she has used Djinn Storm like twice, starts using a crazy buff and then goes about kicking your ass? You basicly have to kill her before she does any of that last bit or you lose :ohdear: But thankfully, she only has 200k or so HP left when she does that.
Huh, she only used Djinn Storm once before she added a barrier to her sprite and buffed herself. :/
Still had a Master Spark in reserve before she killed me and that would probably have been enough. >_>
By the way, how do you fire a Master Spark at 97% MAG? I use concentrate thrice, switch her out, but when I switch her back in, it's only something like 72%.
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Huh, she only used Djinn Storm once before she added a barrier to her sprite and buffed herself. :/
Still had a Master Spark in reserve before she killed me and that would probably have been enough. >_>
By the way, how do you fire a Master Spark at 97% MAG? I use concentrate thrice, switch her out, but when I switch her back in, it's only something like 72%.
Only once? ...ehehehehe :V
Also, buffs go down by one fifth each turn taken, so 80% is the most possible you can have when its your turn to move. 97% MAG in the back is the most realistic because of 3 concentrates, the fourth isn't worth it for like 2% more buff.
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Reimu level 129. :O I'm still not quite seeing how the fight is possible yet though; the limbs all become one big clusterfuck once the third is added, and I simply can't deal enough damage fast enough. At least grinding is easy~
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Reimu level 129. :O I'm still not quite seeing how the fight is possible yet though; the limbs all become one big clusterfuck once the third is added, and I simply can't deal enough damage fast enough. At least grinding is easy~
Party DEF/MND buffs help. A lot. And try to get the top out of the way as fast as possible.
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Oh wow, after posting about
Utsuho
, I prepped and went to try her for laughs.
...I won? Geez late night attempts at stuff seems to go better than expected.
Had 5 KOs in the fight (Oh god Uncontainable Nuclear Explosion and Giga Flare
).
Oh well, new character get! Guess I can now put full focus on exploring 28F and 29F now.
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Tam's Foe Kills my entire Party as soon as the battle starts...
Guess I should go get Yuugi now. Anyone have tips for her?
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Tam's Foe Kills my entire Party as soon as the battle starts...
Guess I should go get Yuugi now. Anyone have tips for her?
At that level she should be easy. She almost always targets the leftmost slot though, and only has single target attacks. A buffed Meiling should take the hits until her rage phase.
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I tried fighting her and she teared through Meiling first thing with a lucky Supernatural Phenomenon.
Guess I need to distribute some Skill points and Items first.
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I tried fighting her and she teared through Meiling first thing with a lucky Supernatural Phenomenon.
Guess I need to distribute some Skill points and Items first.
No, this is about right. I was barely able to survive any attack for more than one turn - and even if you do survive Supernatural Phenomenon, she'll start doing Knockout In Three Steps soon - and frankly if you can survive that somehow, what the HELL is wrong with you you're way too overlevelled.
The main thing about Yuugi is that she's going to be picking off characters one by one. She'll almost always target the front-most and with the exception of, well, pretty much Meiling alone, she'll be 1HKOing them whenever she uses Supernatural Phenomenon. Your objective is just to tear through her HP as fast as you can and beat her down before she finishes you off.
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So when she starts spamming Knockout it means she's almost done? If so then I guess i'll need a little luck and hope my damage dealers don't die. Any idea on how much HP she has?
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Very dangerous thing about Yuugi when you fight her, her Damage counts go up as her HP goes down.
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That doesn't matter since she's probably going to one hit kill everyone anyway >_>;
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Good point, but still worth notice. The dmg increase is truly batshit crazy though when fighting her Plus-Disk varient, 0-100 turning into 50k, 30k turning into 250k... that is not exactly a nice thing to see, especially when your strong enough to beat the True Final on your 1st try :ohdear:
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...
;-;
Okay, I just blasted apart all of Mary's limbs, then...then...THAT. Overflowing Natural Power is bad enough, but having Djinn Storm as part of her regular lineup of attacks?! WTF? How much health does she have left at this point?
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Donut... to much... way to much ;_;
When I fought her, she got... *thinks carefully* 9 turns? or so before kicking it when she started that phase up. I got lucky as well, none of her worst moves came up, cept maybe for her Overflowing Supernatural I-am-a-jerk Power
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Way too much is right. Enough so that she must have over 1.5 million health left at that point, because she outlasted me after I raped her limbs. ;-;
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No, this is about right. I was barely able to survive any attack for more than one turn - and even if you do survive Supernatural Phenomenon, she'll start doing Knockout In Three Steps soon - and frankly if you can survive that somehow, what the HELL is wrong with you you're way too overlevelled.
The main thing about Yuugi is that she's going to be picking off characters one by one. She'll almost always target the front-most and with the exception of, well, pretty much Meiling alone, she'll be 1HKOing them whenever she uses Supernatural Phenomenon. Your objective is just to tear through her HP as fast as you can and beat her down before she finishes you off.
I just went and beat Yuugi (I needed a few more battles). Meiling and and Remilia were able to survive Supernatural Phenomenon, and thankfully she never focused on anyone other than those two. Minoriko was able to easily keep up with healing, especially if I had Hakurei Barrier or Promise of the Wheat God up.
No one started dying until she started using Knockout In Three Steps, at which point she was able to one-shot Meiling (for about 3k damage, which is double her current HP). Meiling wasn't really optimized for defense, right now she's using Unwavering Will x2 and a Hirami Lemon (just for the +rec, though if she can recover at least 40 SP now with Focus I'll swap it out).
At that point I just swapped some sacrifices into the first slot, used Aya and Sakuya to buff everyone's speed (Chen was my dedicated switcher), and burned her down. Patchy did most of the work on that part, Silent Selene was doing about 5.2k or so damage.
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How do I use this and what save will it overwrite in its present state? I want to try this using a party formed sole on if I like the character or not.
Nevermind got it to work...
Why do I want to try the game with a single crazily overly Skill Point buffed character now?
Wait, my save file has skill levels on some of the characters?! gahh. I'll try and fix that too.
update: They're all zero for me.. You talkinga bout my save file? Everyone has 0 skill points and zero skill levels for me, does anybody else have that problem?
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Reimu's currently at level 135. I'm going to grind to level 140 before I try again. Also, the max level is now accurate, for I've stopped grinding anyone other than the 12 I'm using for time-based reasons. :V
I have the perfect strategy. Have Yukarin and Reimu defense buff, have ran spam her group buffs until they can completely rape the limbs once they come out. The only problem is that this strategy takes about 5 minutes to set up. :<
EDIT: Jesus, she has a high-damaging party-wide multiple debuff spell too? Ayayayayayayayayaya...I'm calling it a night. Reimu level 137. Sooner or later I'll get her...
The big problem is that no matter how high my level gets or what equipment I equip, I can't guard against Djinn Storm.
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Reimu's currently at level 135. I'm going to grind to level 140 before I try again. Also, the max level is now accurate, for I've stopped grinding anyone other than the 12 I'm using for time-based reasons. :V
I have the perfect strategy. Have Yukarin and Reimu defense buff, have ran spam her group buffs until they can completely rape the limbs once they come out. The only problem is that this strategy takes about 5 minutes to set up. :<
EDIT: Jesus, she has a high-damaging party-wide multiple debuff spell too? Ayayayayayayayayaya...I'm calling it a night. Reimu level 137. Sooner or later I'll get her...
The big problem is that no matter how high my level gets or what equipment I equip, I can't guard against Djinn Storm.
You'll get it eventually. Strategy >>>> levels in that fight IMO. Plan well and you can do it at the level you are at fairly easily, I'm betting.
Are you using your latest recruit? Try saving World-Shaking Military Rule until the final phase, abuse ran
while things are calm to keep the entire team powered up, paralyze and debuff her (yes, they work. Poison too.) and so on.
Of course, the more levels the better, but there are several things you can try that just might make the difference.
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Yeah, I've been using him. Also I'm pretty sure I outlined my Ran buffing strategy here just now. :V
Also, scratch that. Reimu level 139, lol. I got the bright idea that if I want to nuke the final boss, I have to pump more into my nukers' attacks. Patchy and Yugi now have about 2000 more magic and attack respectively. :3
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Re: Remilia
It seems to be a general consensus that Remilia deserves a higher place than she does where I placed her. And it seems people seem to be going on a tirade against my decision to put her there. I'm not going to deny that she's a solid character. She's great for the majority of the main game. Theorycrafting and mathcrafting are probably going to make her appear very good, too. But there's a great deal of factors that come from practical use.
If their is a better character then Remi, then please tell me who, cause I used her trhought the game and Plus-Disk and she was fantastic, only being beaten out in dps by Sikieiki
, and even then she must use her 1st card to out-dps Remi.
Here are the people I found out-DPS Remi in my game, where practically everyone has over-the-top offensive stats:
Marisa w/ Magic Missile (Deals more damage on single turns)
Chen w/ Hououtenshi w/ buff, Flight of Idaten (Attacks twice to three times more than Remi)
Aya w/ Peerless Wind God (Attacks twice more than Remi)
Orin w/ Catwalk (Attacks twice to four times more than Remi)
Mystia w/ Illustrado Dive (Attacks twice more than Remi)
Kanako w/ Medeteko Dance (Attacks twice to three times more than Remi)
Yuka w/ Flower Shot (Attacks twice more than Remi)
Almost everyone else deals more single-shot damage than Remi!
I personally think Remi is one of the best characters, but I haven't fully theorycrafted that material yet, so I wont really argue about it. But I played her post game too, up to level 450, and I cheated myself up to the 600s just to see winner. Now I know I didn't level up quite so much as you, but I really think that level 450 is pretty much the end of the game. I also saw no indication of Remi's dps getting worse.
The main issue is NOT that Remi's damage sucks. Because it's GOOD.
Just... everyone does it BETTER. Remi has innately WORSE base STR than your standard Base 16 STR character as a way to counter-act the powerful STR right at the beginning of the game, PLUS she has a buff. It's enough for her to keep up with the rest, but it's NOT enough for her to do really well on her own.
It's really dumb. As for her buff, yes buffing that stat is good. However, it comes with a paralize, which is worth it if she's your only source of buffing those stats yes. But there are so many other characters who buff those stats too, WITHOUT a nasty paralize.
This is the same logic I'm applying to for Remi, Remi has good damage, good self-buff, but many characters scale much better on the DPS scale than she does.
...
;-;
Okay, I just blasted apart all of Mary's limbs, then...then...THAT. Overflowing Natural Power is bad enough, but having Djinn Storm as part of her regular lineup of attacks?! WTF? How much health does she have left at this point?
3.5m + 2.0m HP all in all, 5.5m HP for you to bust through.
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You saying that she has 2 million health once her limbs are gone? Greaaaat.
Doing some honest-to-god last grinding of the night, I picked up Scourge. All I can say is +_______+ This brings Yugi's attack over 20k. I do feel as though I'm wasting the huge magic buff it gives, but Reimu's the only person with worthwhile composite attacks, and she's too busy healing and buffing.
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1. *cough
Dessert
cough* is a composite user and the damn best at doing her job
2. Once you learn the one very "special" tactic needed (which I won't tell, but maybe somebody else will and also not entirely related to 1), then all your problems would be solved. Of course, said tactic also carries certain risks
3. Something that I haven't though of yet
Until then:
:munch: I will enjoy watching you squirm Sorry, just an emotional high today
By the way, I couldn't help but feel rather disturbed about the concept of investing the Lv Up point into SPD. Thoughts?; is it worth it in the long run?
-
For some reason I refuse to use that character. Maybe because everyone else uses her? Because she deals a little too much damage? The fact that a light breeze will OHKO her? I dunno, but I'm not using her.
-
By the way, I couldn't help but feel rather disturbed about the concept of investing the Lv Up point into SPD. Thoughts?; is it worth it in the long run?
I used to think this was a good idea. Because on paper moving faster is better than hitting harder. This is because if you move faster, you can also focus faster, and switch faster, and buff faster, etc.
However, later on I felt that this was not a good idea. The reason why is because of how speed gets converted into actual action bar filling potential. It's
100 speed = 1% per tick
200 speed = 2%
400 speed = 3%
700 = 4%
1100 = 5%
etc.
Early in the game, like 10 level up bonuses probably wont even equate to 1 point of speed since it ignores that first 100%.. Later in the game, each point of speed loses it's potency. Late in the game, characters with like 5X the speed as another character, BARELY move twice as fast, if that.
To make matters worse, because battles progress via "ticks", and you reach points where you're regenning over 10% of your bar per tick. You often have wasted speed, it doesn't carry over after your move. So For example, chen's buff with 99% action guage afterwards (I think it was 99%, I'm not sure atm), would delay you the exact same amount as though it had only 90% delay.
In the end, I feel spending a level up bonus on speed is even less valuable than spending it on an offensive stat, which in turn, is already inferior IMO to defensive stats.
For some reason I refuse to use that character. Maybe because everyone else uses her? Because she deals a little too much damage? The fact that a light breeze will OHKO her? I dunno, but I'm not using her.
Probably already figured this out, but after the first add goes down (by first I mean the one that spawns first, not the one you kill first), the boss is completely incapable of performing any sort of physical attack. Which means characters like patchy and yuyuko will suddenly become tanks, don't hide them in the back anymore.
-
You saying that she has 2 million health once her limbs are gone? Greaaaat.
No she has 2m HP once she uses Overflowing Natural Power
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Here's my fixed save file, everyone is 0 now, yay
http://www.megaupload.com/?d=CJ38R646
I'll take this for a spin
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I'll take this for a spin
Lemmie know if it's 0 for you too or not, I'm rather confused about that other person's post mentioning skill levels being cranked, I have no idea what could cause that, if they are a druggy, or if they're talking to someone else (which no matter how I look at their post, I simply cannot see who else they could be replying to =\ )
-
If there's any fixing needed, I'll reupload.
-
Back at level 210 I went and murdered Final Boss again so the 100 item star would activate; wondering, she doesn't get that 2m HP reset if she doesn't use Overflowing Unnatural Power, right? I killed her before all her limbs died :V
As for Ver.2, I actually was doing better against it then I thought I would (Considering people beat it 25 levels higher then my level), but then... I have one thing to say about that boss now. Rankain.
...I haven't played in a few days >: I'll get right to it after school! I'll try to resist playing on that uploaded NG+ save much.
If there's any fixing needed, I'll reupload.
All the characters on the 4th Page and Plus-Disk(5th) Page have the exact same affinities D:
From what I hear, this might be something that always happens when you do a New Game+.
-
Back at level 210 I went and murdered Final Boss again so the 100 item star would activate; wondering, she doesn't get that 2m HP reset if she doesn't use Overflowing Unnatural Power, right? I killed her before all her limbs died :V
Yeah, she doesn't get it if she doesn't use OUP.
-
By the way, after thinking I found a Feb.9th update on 2.06 (Afterwards I called myself an idiot because it was October 9th last year, it said 2/9 >: ), I realized the download for 2.06 I gave was outdated. The latest is 2.06b which might fix the NG+ issues.
http://www.geocities.jp/aaa_3peso/thLabyrinth/thLabyrinth_ver2.06b.zip
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Wait, my save file has skill levels on some of the characters?! gahh. I'll try and fix that too.
update: They're all zero for me.. You talkinga bout my save file? Everyone has 0 skill points and zero skill levels for me, does anybody else have that problem?
No no no everything is 0 I just want to use CE to make one character ridiculously overpowered for goofing around.
EDIT: Well I beat Yuugi I got lucky early on because she was using Irremoveable shackles most of the early battle. I also managed to lower her Mind with Alice's Holland Doll and Chen was able to switch in enough death Fodder for Knockout in 3 Steps for Patchy to use Silent Selene enough.
-
Wow. I must have used MASTER SPARK at the exact right moment in the
Yukari
battle, as two Spear the Gungnirs with a completely unbuffed Remilia was enough to defeat her after her second Djinn Storm...
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No she has 2m HP once she uses Overflowing Natural Power
Somehow I have trouble believing you when you imply she's invincible before then. :x A video I saw of someone who massively overleveled for the fight killed her before she got a single hit off from Overflowing Natural Power, and most definitely did not deal 2 million.
Also, does Tenshi's sword thing work against Overflowing Natural Power? I'm not really planning on changing my team now, but it'd be good to know if it did destroy the buff.
-
Somehow I have trouble believing you when you imply she's invincible before then. :x A video I saw of someone who massively overleveled for the fight killed her before she got a single hit off from Overflowing Natural Power, and most definitely did not deal 2 million.
Also, does Tenshi's sword thing work against Overflowing Natural Power? I'm not really planning on changing my team now, but it'd be good to know if it did destroy the buff.
Her first stage BEFORE using Overflowing Power is 3.5m HP or roundabout there
USING Overflowing Power resets the HP to 2m
errata: it is possible to defeat the boss before she uses it, but this is quite hard unless you intentionally over-grind
errata 2: overkill damage can be achieved
Also, Sword of Rapture is a FIXED PERCENTAGE to work. You can try to use it but you may see it miss a bit
-
...I see. D: Thanks for that clarification, I guess I'll use the time once the last limb goes down to prepare for her (though it always seems to coincide with her battle gauge being nearly ready DX) If it's 2 million though, I must have been fairly close that one time...
Today. When I come from school home today, I will grind until she goes down. This ends...TODAY!
/me raises his sword in the air
-
By the way, after thinking I found a Feb.9th update on 2.06 (Afterwards I called myself an idiot because it was October 9th last year, it said 2/9 >: ), I realized the download for 2.06 I gave was outdated. The latest is 2.06b which might fix the NG+ issues.
http://www.geocities.jp/aaa_3peso/thLabyrinth/thLabyrinth_ver2.06b.zip
According to 3peso's blog, besides the usual warnings that it may be a "trap patch" that breaks things, the only thing 2.06b does over 2.06 is handle compatibility with DirectX9 (Direct9.0c and before users may have problems). And that it MIGHT fix problems that Windows 7 compatibility errors, though he's not sure.
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Wait does Tam's Foe just do Flowing Hellfire at random? Because it used it twice in a row on me...
Guess Grinding will be very needed.
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Wait does Tam's Foe just do Flowing Hellfire at random? Because it used it twice in a row on me...
Guess Grinding will be very needed.
It shouldn't. I know LATER Foes (Yes there are more later...) can potentially repeat it, but the first one shouldn't.
If it did, that's just horrible luck. It should be waiting 3-4 attacks between uses.
If you build yourself a tank with high FIR Affinity and SPD (Meiling?), you should be able to survive it, then just swap your other characters back into hiding after it uses a couple turns and drag them back out after it uses it again.
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Only once? ...ehehehehe :V
Umm, yeah... wow.
She added another... thing, then buffed herself again and again and again and again. D:
So far Yukari
is being harder than Great Stamp and Flandre
combined. It's that damn last phase. She drains all my sp and then goes on a rampage!
I probably have to fire a Spark before she does the second Dojin Storm but that's going to be tricky to time well. :S
The Dojin Storms happen at scripted times, right?
Anyway, should I have Kaguya
at this point? I remember Donut talking about her earlier than 16F, but she's still having a daaaamn good time on 12F.
-
Lemmie know if it's 0 for you too or not, I'm rather confused about that other person's post mentioning skill levels being cranked, I have no idea what could cause that, if they are a druggy, or if they're talking to someone else (which no matter how I look at their post, I simply cannot see who else they could be replying to =\ )
Only thing I see wrong is that everyone has the same resists, affinities and recovery. It's going to take a while to fix all that :/
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Only thing I see wrong is that everyone has the same resists, affinities and recovery. It's going to take a while to fix all that :/
Notice that they're all Reimu's basic resists/affinities/recovery? @_@
-
Umm, yeah... wow.
She added another... thing, then buffed herself again and again and again and again. D:
So far Yukari
is being harder than Great Stamp and Flandre
combined. It's that damn last phase. She drains all my sp and then goes on a rampage!
I probably have to fire a Spark before she does the second Dojin Storm but that's going to be tricky to time well. :S
The Dojin Storms happen at scripted times, right?
Anyway, should I have Kaguya
at this point? I remember Donut talking about her earlier than 16F, but she's still having a daaaamn good time on 12F.
Djinn Storms are scripted most likely. It gets used after the first 1/3rd of her HP is gone, then again is used at 2/3rds roughly. At least that's my assumption.
Kicker is that it is possible to take her out after a Djinn Storm, but before she gets her next turn afterwards if you're lucky enough.
Also she is vulnerable to stat debuffs incase you're unaware. Reisen
is a good choice for this with Discarder
.
Regarding Kaguya
, you need to amass enough BP between Mokou, Eirin, Reisen, and Sanae
in order to have a chance at her.
-
Tam's Foe Loves Spamming Flowing Hellfire on me. Sometimes it uses it three times in a row...
Anyways where can I get more Bomb Rings?
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Tam's Foe Loves Spamming Flowing Hellfire on me. Sometimes it uses it three times in a row...
Anyways where can I get more Bomb Rings?
The item page says enemies drop them on 3F.
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Tam's Foe Loves Spamming Flowing Hellfire on me. Sometimes it uses it three times in a row...
Anyways where can I get more Bomb Rings?
I personally found that those bosses were extremely difficult to survive the opener for. But afterwards, were easy. Even if they cast that multiple times in a row, because after the first, I make sure I have defensive buffs up somewhat. Though for the very first one having enough sp on Reimu to keep up def buffs might be pretty difficult
Only thing I see wrong is that everyone has the same resists, affinities and recovery. It's going to take a while to fix all that :/
siiiiighhhh... good grief.
Is that wink a volunteer? I'll try and fix it myself but I don't want to put myself thru that if you're already doing it, I'd shoot myself if I did it then found out it's already been done >=P.
-
Beat
Yukari
! \o/
Used a Master Spark before the second Djinn Storm and I think it was at the right time, as it didn't take much damage to finish her off afterwards. I think I did about 100k in damage before she died. It's always nice when your last offensive attack before your screwed just happens to be enough to kill the boss. :D
Used Komachi
to debuff the hell out of her. I'll have to see how Reisen
fairs in a later boss fight.
But holy shit on a stick, 17F is painfull. Although I have to grind anyway to get Kaguya
.
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I personally found that those bosses were extremely difficult to survive the opener for. But afterwards, were easy. Even if they cast that multiple times in a row, because after the first, I make sure I have defensive buffs up somewhat. Though for the very first one having enough sp on Reimu to keep up def buffs might be pretty difficult
I made the mistake of focusing too much on Reimu's SP at the beginning. The bad news is that once I actually needed to use her for healing after going through many floors of not needing to use Exorcising Border it was weaksauce by then, whereas it was really effective the last time I had used it. The good news is that I can actually cast Great Hakurei Barrier twice without needing to focus and she's using items that boost recovery so I'm reasonably well off in that department:
(http://i163.photobucket.com/albums/t299/Barrakketh/temp/th_reimu.jpg) (http://s163.photobucket.com/albums/t299/Barrakketh/temp/?action=view¤t=reimu.jpg)
Sometimes I wonder if I should have even bothered putting points into ATK for Sakuya. It almost feels like I should have dumped everything into SP so I can just use her for Lunar Clock since her damage output isn't anything to write home about. Soul Scripture is the only thing that can sweep enemies that don't have high DEF and she only has the SP to do that twice right now before being swapped out.
Another thing I've been wondering...the wiki entry for Reisen mentions that the way the drop system works is that you have to kill her first if you want her drop. Is there anything like that for random encounters to increase the likelihood of getting the drop from a specific enemy?
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siiiiighhhh... good grief.
Is that wink a volunteer? I'll try and fix it myself but I don't want to put myself thru that if you're already doing it, I'd shoot myself if I did it then found out it's already been done >=P.
I'll do it. At least then I've got every character mapped out for my own cheat table. :D
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Another thing I've been wondering...the wiki entry for Reisen mentions that the way the drop system works is that you have to kill her first if you want her drop. Is there anything like that for random encounters to increase the likelihood of getting the drop from a specific enemy?
The deal with that is you can only have so many drops before every "slot" is taken. Reisen and her minions have a 100% drop rate for their items. Killing minions fills up your drop slots (3, IIRC) and makes Reisen's drop "discard."
-
I'll do it. At least then I've got every character mapped out for my own cheat table. :D
Yay, thanks.
-
So should I get my party to around level 32 for the fight with Tam's Foe? Because now it just seems like a major Luck fest.
-
I have just made it to 16F and of all bosses available to me, the only ones alive are
Kaguya's Foe and Flandre. They are alive due to lack of BP on the characters needed, infact I have not used Sanae, Eirin, Reisen or Mokou at all this play
:sigh:
-
VICTORY! :D Kind of like Eientei, that was such a decisive victory it was a little disappointing. Game over...
Stop looking at me.
I am NOT doing the plus disk!
X(
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VICTORY! :D Kind of like Eientei, that was such a decisive victory it was a little disappointing. Game over...
Stop looking at me.
I am NOT doing the plus disk!
X(
Donut that is akin to not doing extra in Touhou...
I am dissapointed in you.
Meanwhile Tam's Foe still manages to kill my entire party... I got one attempt where it did Flowing Hellfire 4 times in a Row...
-
I actually wouldn't mind being forced into this if it weren't for the retarded final boss fight. I mean, grinding for over 200 levels is just beyond silly.
I am liking the post-game content though. All the little Touhous wandering around again like it ain't no thing. Also, curb stomped the first bloody seal. I wanna find the others now. :3
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6F, 9F, and 20F for Bloodstained goodness!
And yeah, all the ver2 bosses around a few of the floors is pretty cool. And once you take care of all the bosses down there+boss rush, 21F+ opens up! ...well, it opens before then, but you won't high enough level yet.
Also, walk into 21F for a second and then pop into 1F for a new event right next to the entrance~
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Donut that is akin to not doing extra in Touhou...
This is so wrong on so many levels.
I thought Touhou Extras were full of tricks and tactics for you to figure out and slowly work your way to a victory. Plus disk bosses are ALL handled the same with levels being the deciding factor.
Bloody seal, ver.2 and boss rushes are still very fun, though.
-
Yeah, I believe someone said aiming for Final Boss Ver.2 as your superfinal instead of the 30F boss is a good idea. And if you keep playing and reach 30F, just stop there. Probably a good rule to follow.
At that point if you want to keep playing, start a new game and use different characters (also, the option of downloading that New Game+ save uploaded with all characters unlocked to make this more interesting)
-
Good news: I quite suddenly have lost all urge to ever play again. See y'all, it's been real. o/
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I have made it to 19F, wewt! :toot:
Your going to stop playing Labyrinth donut? :ohdear: I hope you got enjoyed the game :D
-
Reimu level 94, still not enough to beat Mr. Man.
-
Oh yeah, it was real fun. It's just that my playing style kind of was made with the intention of the final boss being, ya know...final. I stopped leveling up anyone not in my active 12, I've thrown my default formation into something purely made for grinding floor 20, all of that was made with no intention of continuing after I beat
Maribel
Besides, I saw Hibachi, my life is complete. 8D
Besides, I already know I would get no satisfaction from completing plus disk, only a "thank god that's done."
...Actually, where's the boss rush? I never found it. :S
Wait, it was right under the relay point lol. Oh fine, one last time~
-
At that point if you want to keep playing, start a new game and use different characters (also, the option of downloading that New Game+ save uploaded with all characters unlocked to make this more interesting)
You might want to wait for me to fix the save before playing.
-
You might want to wait for me to fix the save before playing.
*cracks whip* work faster knave.
Sorry, couldn't resist. Fixing the exp values was a buttload of "fun". Imagining you doing 6X the work (6 elements after all) is roffle >=P
-
6 elements
5 resists
1 recovery rate
39 characters
...
-
6 elements
5 resists
1 recovery rate
39 characters
...
holy shit, you mean the status debuffs are messed up too? ouch.
Forgot about t he recovery too. That will be extra fun, I mean, there are probably heaps of variables with the value of numbers between 8-20 >=P
-
I don't need to search for individual numbers like that. Just going to hax myself the last item. Equip and search for huge hp values. Get my ref addresses for a char and the rest is just basic hex maths.
-
Good news: I quite suddenly have lost all urge to ever play again. See y'all, it's been real. o/
Plus Disk is completely unnecessary and for a typical player it is quite unfun.
Unless you are a maso like me.
-
For Plus Disk, you could always do what I did for it, Cheat Engine!
Also6 elements
5 resists
1 recovery rate
39 characters
...
Not every char is messed up on my file, in fact it's just the last 2 pages of characters that are messed up on my file. Thats 16 characters and a lot less work compared to, say... 39 characters :V
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Not every char is messed up on my file, in fact it's just the last 2 pages of characters that are messed up on my file. Thats 16 characters and a lot less work compared to, say... 39 characters :V
Yeah, its only the last 2 pages; I'd never ever expect anyone to try to fix it if it was every single one.
-
Found the reference addresses for all the characters. They're all over the place :/.
I'll get down to the real fixing by tomorrow. The save game will have 2 page 12 items revealed due to using those to find hp values.
-
Question: How many forms does the F18 boss have? I somehow managed to survive to the fourth form with Patchy and Reimu after the rest of my party got destroyed during the first, but after the third form change the remains of my party didn't last much longer... What level would be recommended for this battle, by the way?
-
Oh yeah, I forgot to mention how the boss rush went.
I made it all the way to Mr. Man before realizing in advance I had neither the TP nor resources remaining to win, so I quit and watched the rest of the boss rush on Youtube. I wasn't missing anything.
I suppose the big reason I really don't want to do the plus disk is that there really doesn't feel like a point. What always kept me going in this game was knowing I was very gradually working towards a conclusive, final battle. Here, it's "here's some shit, go fight it." The motivation is gone, and the grindy nature of the game becomes more painfully apparent.
So yeah. Time to play something else. I do not regret any of the 62 hours it took to beat this game though, except for the 6 grinding for Mr. Man. That was just painful.
-
Question: How many forms does the F18 boss have?
18F boss has it's starting form, then a form for every element, then back to the starting form, thats a total of 7 forms.
*IF* you can hit hard enough, it is possible to beat it before it enters any of it's forms, but the requires plenty of grinding, porbly to Reimu Lv 120 or higher or sumthin. In my opinion, the battle is meant as a "battle of attrition", a battle meant to go on and on... I would just focus on surviving the bosses attacks and dealing some dmg out, and since survival should not be a problem if you properly leveled... :V
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So should I try Tam's Foe at level 30 or wait till level 35 to avoid the horrible luck I have with Flowing Hellfire?
-
So should I try Tam's Foe at level 30 or wait till level 35 to avoid the horrible luck I have with Flowing Hellfire?
I think I did it at 29 (maybe 28). Tam's Foe never did any consecutive Flowing Hellfires, just every three or four attacks. Meiling, Remi, and Yuugi were all able to take the hit while wearing a Bomb Ring (they also had some +FIR added through skill points), for the last slot either get another character that can take the hit or a sacrifice that would be mostly useless for the fight. My Minoriko was capable of fully healing everyone, Reimu would patch up the characters before (and sometimes after) a Flowing Hellfire as needed and buff them before it.
Just swapping out the squishies before the next Flowing Hellfire was enough to keep the casualties down to a minimum. Immediately after a Flowing Hellfire I would usually switch in Minoriko since Remilia took the most damage from it (always had < 300 HP afterwards).
Having Aya and Sakuya buff your other character's speed is a good idea. You don't need Aya out constantly but it helps immensely with your party's damage output (especially on Patchy), Aki's healing and buffing (it's low delay anyway), and letting your tanks attack/recover SP faster.
Wriggle is still useful for the fight. Switch her in to apply Comet on Earth then get her out of there unless you want to use Butterfly Storm (I had other characters with SP that could do more damage). Irremoveable Shackles is useful for the PAR, but I stuck with Supernatural Phenomenon most of the time because the damage is much better and the former's PSN is weaker than Wriggle's.
-
Question: How many forms does the F18 boss have? I somehow managed to survive to the fourth form with Patchy and Reimu after the rest of my party got destroyed during the first, but after the third form change the remains of my party didn't last much longer... What level would be recommended for this battle, by the way?
I'm not sure about recommended level, but like said, that boss goes through Neutral -> one form of every element -> Neutral again. In each elemental form, the boss is weak to the opposite element - so focus on bringing along characters with strong elemental nukes. If you're doing it right you should be able to burn through the HP of every elemental form very fast, then the final one should be Master Spark'd to oblivion.
Or so I've heard.
I'm still back on F16. My computer's running Labyrinth at not-slowed-down speeds now for some reason so I think I can actually stomach some grind (As a note I made it this far with my computer jumping between 100% speed and about as low as 20% speed...) and take down the F16 boss and/or the F15 optional that I haven't taken down yet, as I've cleared pretty much everything else available at this point. I've just been going through the game a tiny bit underlevelled (Mostly because I have never actually stopped to grind deliberately, just pressed through) and I want to fix that.
Also, for Tam's Foe, take Cirno in. Not at the start, but once he uses Flowing Hellfire once. Keep him in perpetual lockdown with PAR and Speed Down and you'll probably find he goes by way easier, because I remember being able to inflict those a lot.
-
In each elemental form, the boss is weak to the opposite element - so focus on bringing along characters with strong elemental nukes
Opposite elements? I guess I shouldn't be surprised... So which element should be used against which form?
Also F17 seems to be great for grinding now that I can actually take out the enemies before they can attack me (apart from those shield dolls, but those usually go for the people in front who can take the hits). Just a pity the drops are so scarce...
-
Opposite elements? I guess I shouldn't be surprised... So which element should be used against which form?
Also F17 seems to be great for grinding now that I can actually take out the enemies before they can attack me (apart from those shield dolls, but those usually go for the people in front who can take the hits). Just a pity the drops are so scarce...
FIR <-> CLD
NTR <-> WND
MYS <-> SPI
You can tell which form is which by the color, but yeah, it's set up just like on the elemental resistance table. Heck, I think he goes through the elements in that exact order.
-
...Why am I the only person who has to deal with consecutive Flowing Hellfires on Tam's Foe...
-
Do you make sure to always have four people switched in when it attacks? I remember someone telling me that if it tries to attack an empty slot and thus has to change to another one, that counts as one of its three attacks before it unleashes another Flowing Hellfire.
Though it does seem that you can simply get unlucky as well, as I have had one of the later Foes randomly use two in a row (one-hit-KOing poor Patchy whom I had just switched in)...
-
About to start tackling the combination-based part of exploring 24F, but I'm also planning out a sub-par challenge team for a NG+ Run.
The characters I've decided to ban from my choosing for this run is
Marisa, Patchouli, Chen, Meiling, Alice, Yuugi, Komachi, Suwako, Ran, Tenshi
and everyone on the last two pages EXCEPT Mokou, Orin, Yuyuko, and POSSIBLY not ban Maribel(not enough SP to really use self-buff until the endgame) and Keine(Although her party ATK/MAG buffs...)
And then, I'm pretty darn sure I'll be using Wriggle, Sakuya, Cirno, and Rumia. Also likely Remi as well, with DEF/MND on her level ups, since she's the only person I haven't banned that could be a decent choice for 1st slot tank. And I really mean only. And, well, Reimu is so important I'm really not going to NOT use her unless I picked up some game-breaker instead (Like Renko!
)
That makes 6 people, now I need to choose 6 more. Hmm... Wriggle and Sakuya will have defensively-oriented level ups in a style I have not chosen yet, so they will be my second slot tanks. Wriggle still has her PSN damage without ATK anyway, and she's got great resistances. I'll need a healer... should I pick Minoriko or Sanae for this, though? Hmm.
Keine (Although not planning on using her cuz she seems too good for this kind of party setup) would also be a great second slot tank with defensively oriented level-ups, or Eirin. Oh, and I want to use Iku because Rumia can cure PAR with her Demarcation, and Iku can also use her ATK/MAG buff on people with high PAR resistance without fear as well.
Well, I guess I've got Reimu, Remilia, Rumia, Sakuya, Cirno, Wriggle, Iku, and either Minoriko or Sanae. That makes 8 people. The other four need to be DAMAGE DEALERS. I've got MAG damage in Rumia and if I don't give Iku defensive stats, but that isn't much damage from either.
ATK Damage Dealers:
Youmu
Aya(SPD buff but ehh damage, and Sakuya can already SPD buff...)
Nitori(50% SPD/DEF/MND self-buff but if I use 2.06 for much stronger Megawatt is she too much? Then again, still frail and Youmu is the only other good ATK damage here...)
Orin(Ehh damage against bosses, don't really want)
MAG Damage Dealers:(Other then Rumia/Iku already have)
Mokou
Reisen(eeew)
Yuyuko(only SPI is augh and her SP costs will be impossible till endgame)
Maribel(Is she too much? She can't really self-buff and do anything afterwards for an awful long time anyway, and my damage output will be bad at this rate anyway...)
Any thoughts on which damage dealers and healer I should pick, or some other opinion?
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Do you make sure to always have four people switched in when it attacks? I remember someone telling me that if it tries to attack an empty slot and thus has to change to another one, that counts as one of its three attacks before it unleashes another Flowing Hellfire.
...This would explain why I get it constantly if thats how it works...
Guess i'll grind a bit and make a party with more members who can survive it.
And how is Reimu's Healing Calculated?
-
...This would explain why I get it constantly if thats how it works...
I think if a slot is empty it's supposed to attack the person in the next available slot, moving to the right.
And how is Reimu's Healing Calculated?
MAG * 0.66
-
Okay guess I'll just grind and overbuff Raymoo's mind with SKP to ensure I can kill that thing.
-
Okay guess I'll just grind and overbuff Raymoo's mind with SKP to ensure I can kill that thing.
FWIW my Reimu was only healing for about 650 during that fight. Aki for single target healing, Reimu to top everyone off before the Flowing Hellfire. I always left Meiling, Remi, and Yuugi out during the Flowing Hellfire. Since one extra character always died at the start of the fight I used that empty slot to make sure no one else other than those three has to take the hit.
-
You can leave a back slot empty for nobody in there to get hurt. Never tried it myself though.
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I'm so annoyed at this point i'm just going to Grind so I don't end up dealing with LOL FLOWAN HELLFIYA! Besides I like never spend Skill Points unless I get stuck.
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Not spending SKP is probably why you're struggling
-
Not spending SKP is probably why you're struggling
This. The fact is that the farther you get, the more the lack of skill points is affecting your stats because the lower the levels are. Each skill point level is a 3% bonus - adding 10 levels to a stat is the same as permanently equipping a +30% stat accessory.
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What level should I be before trying to take down
Suwako
and Nitori
?
I haven't explored the 9th floor yet and I imagine the latter will be manageable by then (Reimu is now 34), but I had run into the former after saving to see if I had gotten all the events with Cirno to activate her. That was really hard and I know I wouldn't have won that, but then Mishaguji-sama ended up out-damaging Flowing Hellfire and I was all (http://i163.photobucket.com/albums/t299/Barrakketh/Emoticons/gonk.gif)
This. The fact is that the farther you get, the more the lack of skill points is affecting your stats because the lower the levels are. Each skill point level is a 3% bonus - adding 10 levels to a stat is the same as permanently equipping a +30% stat accessory.
I've added a couple of levels in these stats since fighting Tam's Foe, but this should give you a rough idea of where I spent my points on some of the more important characters for that fight:
(http://i163.photobucket.com/albums/t299/Barrakketh/temp/th_aki.png) (http://s163.photobucket.com/albums/t299/Barrakketh/temp/?action=view¤t=aki.png)(http://i163.photobucket.com/albums/t299/Barrakketh/temp/th_meiling.png) (http://s163.photobucket.com/albums/t299/Barrakketh/temp/?action=view¤t=meiling.png)(http://i163.photobucket.com/albums/t299/Barrakketh/temp/th_patchy.png) (http://s163.photobucket.com/albums/t299/Barrakketh/temp/?action=view¤t=patchy.png)
(http://i163.photobucket.com/albums/t299/Barrakketh/temp/th_reimu-1.png) (http://s163.photobucket.com/albums/t299/Barrakketh/temp/?action=view¤t=reimu-1.png)(http://i163.photobucket.com/albums/t299/Barrakketh/temp/th_remi.png) (http://s163.photobucket.com/albums/t299/Barrakketh/temp/?action=view¤t=remi.png)(http://i163.photobucket.com/albums/t299/Barrakketh/temp/th_yuugi.png) (http://s163.photobucket.com/albums/t299/Barrakketh/temp/?action=view¤t=yuugi.png)
Just for comparison (and keep in mind equipment makes a big difference if you've been neglecting it), here's Reimu 7 levels ago:
(http://i163.photobucket.com/albums/t299/Barrakketh/temp/th_reimu.jpg) (http://s163.photobucket.com/albums/t299/Barrakketh/temp/?action=view¤t=reimu.jpg)
I've spread the love around instead of focusing on my core group, but the mainstays like Meiling generally get more points put into them.
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Sounds and looks like you're getting the hang of this 8D
The first of those two bosses, I was able to take down when I first fought her - which was totally by accident, on F8, without even realising I was about to fight her! She's got a heck of a lot more HP than most bosses at that point, but that's about it - I didn't find her too dangerous otherwise. If you've fully explored 8F, taking her down should be doable.
The second one, who is up on F9, should be saved until you've completed your exploration of F9 at least. She's got a huge amount of damage output and a self-buff that adds a stupid amount of speed, which makes things really difficult. Once you clear F9 though you should be able to take her on, if not just by outdamaging her before she roadrollers you.
Also beating the two of them allows a character on F8 to join you, but you need to take down a stronger version of Tam's Foe first - wait until you're at least someway into the gigantic 10F puzzle before going for her.
...Also, on my end, I was able to finish recruiting all of the Normal Disk characters, except for the F16 and F18 bosses. I fcuking love the last two I got.
-
Seems like I still need to grind a bit before I can take down the F18 boss... I managed to destroy three of his elemental forms this time, but around that point Meiling went down and with her my last tank and healer... It's a pity both Minoriko and
Sanae
are so fragile, as managing to keep them alive until he starts changing forms would be very useful. Perhaps I should try switching one of them for Eirin
?
Though it would seem like Tenshi
is fairly useless in that fight, for once. Sure, most attacks won't harm her at all once she gets her buff up, but that doesn't help when Ratsetu Fist or whatever it's called rips straight through her defences and destroys her in one hit.
-
I've been contemplating grinding a little bit on the 7th floor. I have three Forbidden Tablets (two of which are on Patchy, the other on Reimu) but they would be a nice upgrade for Marisa and my casters in general but if the very rough translation on the Japanese wiki is correct they have a very low drop rate. Since it's not like it's urgent and I may get better caster drops on later floors anyway I'll be putting that off. Items with +Recovery on them make me happy.
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Hmm well I guess how i'm distributing my SKP could be the reason why i'm not doing so well. Wasn't aware Skill Points where a 3% boost. I sinked quite a bit into AP just so I could Grind more.
I'm still going to grind more simply because I just realized that more of my characters are lower leveled than I thought. But I guess i'll try a once more with items moved around.
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Sounds and looks like you're getting the hang of this 8D
The first of those two bosses, I was able to take down when I first fought her - which was totally by accident, on F8, without even realising I was about to fight her! She's got a heck of a lot more HP than most bosses at that point, but that's about it - I didn't find her too dangerous otherwise. If you've fully explored 8F, taking her down should be doable.
I didn't quite fully explore 8F (about 2/3rds done). Just tried her again, beat her with only four characters left: Meiling, Remilia, Rumia (mainly for Demarcation in case too many people got paralyzed again), and Reimu. A few more levels (Reimu is at 34) would have allowed a few of those characters to live longer since they were within about ~100 HP of surviving the attack. I lost Yuugi early in the fight to her CLD attack (one hit took her down from full health), the fight would have been a lot shorter if she were alive.
I seem to have crappy luck with landing -SPD and -DEF debuffs (mainly with Cirno and Iku) on enemies. Paralysis seems to work on bosses much more frequently than those two. I actually need to level up Komachi
. Since she seems to be a dedicated tank and physically on the weak side is it okay to ignore things other than her HP and SP, maybe getting her affinities so they're at least neutral?
The SP is mainly so she can use Narrow Confines of Avici, like with Meiling I'll eventually want her to get to the point where one focus = one use if I can dig up enough decent tanking equipment that has some +REC on it, though in Meiling's case it was for Colorful Rain.
-
I seem to have crappy luck with landing -SPD and -DEF debuffs (mainly with Cirno and Iku) on enemies. Paralysis seems to work on bosses much more frequently than those two. I actually need to level up Komachi
. Since she seems to be a dedicated tank and physically on the weak side is it okay to ignore things other than her HP and SP, maybe getting her affinities so they're at least neutral?
The SP is mainly so she can use Narrow Confines of Avici, like with Meiling I'll eventually want her to get to the point where one focus = one use if I can dig up enough decent tanking equipment that has some +REC on it, though in Meiling's case it was for Colorful Rain.
That's correct. Komachi especially benefits from points into HP because her growth is so stupidly high already. SP and Speed are the two things you'd want to put less focus into, maybe a bit into ATK. SP and Speed are, of course, to make full use of Narrow Confines and her general tanking ability; ATK because she actually has a pretty nice ATK stat as well. So even though you'll be doing no damage with Narrow Confines becaues it's a crappy formula, she can still fight regular enemies with Ferriage and Scythe that Chooses the Dead - the later of which you can use to pretty reliably DTH enemies that will start popping up soon that are very hard to kill otherwise.
Oh, and affinities really matter for her. Since her DEF and MND are so terrible, the only real damage reduction she's getting is from elemental resistance.
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I just reached Mr.
MANLY, MANLY
Man.
And all I gotta say is: holy shit.
I can't even beat his first form out of WTFTHATMANY!?
. :S
Please tell me I don't have to grind for six hours just to beat this guy. :(
On a different subject, I still don't have Kaguya
. :<
-
On a different subject, I still don't have Kaguya
. :<
Do some grinding with 3/4 of the characters required (You should know who to drop) back on 16F? That's my suggestion. Yuugi should be the other character for the purpose of nuking Helbelmares.
...Speaking of 16F, finally cleared it! 8D
...WHY IS EVERYTHING ON 17F WAY HARDER THAN PORNSTAR
WAS?
EDIT: Found out there's nothing to find on 17F. Ran ahead to 18F.
Why is everything much more reasonable and gives more EXP on 18F than 17F?
-
Yay a complete Equipment Swap replacing
Iku
for Youmu and small boosts to Youmu and Reimu's Fire Afin and HP and Tam's Foe was suprisingly easy...
-
Yay a complete Equipment Swap replacing Iku
for Youmu and small boosts to Youmu and Reimu's Fire Afin and HP and Tam's Foe was suprisingly easy...
It's kinda funny how that works, isn't it?
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Reimu Lv230, I remember Final Boss ver.2 exists.
I take out the left and right supports fairly easily, and then get Rankain'd with full HP and 100% DEF/MND buffs and everyone dies.
GOD, how do you survive that thing D:
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Reimu Lv230, I remember Final Boss ver.2 exists.
I take out the left and right supports fairly easily, and then get Rankain'd with full HP and 100% DEF/MND buffs and everyone dies.
GOD, how do you survive that thing D:
I believe after top most uses Rankain once (Which should just buff it's MND and MAG some the first time it's used), it'll lose the invincibility it has. Break out your strongest attacks on it once that happens and ignore the other supports or whatever still lives until the top support dies. Should happen fairly fast as I don't recall it having a whole lot of HP.
Failing that, I believe the Rankain attack focused on your party is SPI elemental if you want to adjust equips/level up SPI affinity on your characters.
-
For Final Boss V.2s top Ad-on, it'll use Rankain 3-4 times to buff it's MAG and MND a bit then NUKE you with a different version of Rankain, which will be a Game Over move for a while :ohdear: But if you kill it before the Nuke version of Rankain, your pretty much in the clear... in comparison to the BS power the the nuke Rankain does. Heck, I am going to test that moves power on my good file, the one that beat the hardest bosses the Plus Disk had. :V
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Oooh, I thought it was invincible until the "You Die" Rankain so I didn't even bother trying to attack it. Ahahaha, whoops~
Time to take that mofo out. Triple-Concentrated Master Spark for you, Grand Tetragrammaton
!
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The Nuke version of Rankain is NOT a Game Over attack, it's just really powerful. When it used the attack my front 4 were: Meiling, Remi,
Yukari
and Sikieiki
. All 4 of my chars had about a 70% DEF/MND buff on, it would have been 80%/100%, but we got hit with Djinn Storm
. All 4 of those characters took 0 from the Nuke varient of Rankain, proving that it is NOT a Game Over, but instead, a really powerful move.
The Ad-on with Rankain is never truly invicible, if you use moves that completly Ignore DEF or MND, you will hurt it, but until it uses a Buff version of Rankain, all Non-Piercing moves will probly hit for 0.
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All 4 of those characters took 0 from the Nuke varient of Rankain, proving that it is NOT a Game Over, but instead, a really powerful move.
This is because you were heavily overleveled, of course! At my level it still deals 20k more damage to Meiling then she has HP. And other then that the fight should be doable (although I haven't even seen third phase yet)
Well, now that darn thing refuses to use Rankain for forever instead of first turn like it has been. I did eventually get it to use it, and found out it doesn't live through triple-concentrate Master Spark, so I just need it to cast it on the first few turns like it used to and this shouldn't be hard.
EDIT:Oh, that thing decided to use Djinn Storm on the first turn this time.
WHY WON'T YOU JUST USE RANKAIN MY GOD
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I guess Reimu Level 98 still isn't enough to beat Mr. Man.
SoHD is still too devestating.
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I guess Reimu Level 98 still isn't enough to beat Mr. Man.
SoHD is still too devestating.
Do you know how depressing this is to hear?
...Because I'm at F18, about halfway through, and my Raymoo's only about level 81.
I don't wanna have to grind 15-20 levels, not yet! D:
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I guess Reimu Level 98 still isn't enough to beat Mr. Man.
SoHD is still too devestating.
Focus your skill points on defenses. Both of them, since it's a composite attack.
FYI, Reimu was exactly level 100 when I beat him.
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Reimu lv130. Final Boss Ver.2 taken out <3
The top support used Rankain instantly, I pulled out Marisa to MASTER SPAAAARK it, and the battle went smoothly into the third phase, no deaths.
Well, it went pretty downhill from there, but she doesn't seem to have nearly as much HP (comparatively, of course) as she does the first time you fight her. Still a pretty difficult fight, her worst 3 moves (Djinn Storm, Buff, and her big nuke) were all used very often. Really hurts D:
Now to blow 4 million skillpoints on my two new characters, and decide who to kick out!
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Shikieiki Neoxanadu, the point of my testing was to Prove or Disprove the statement "The Rankian that does damage is a game over". I have seen for myself that it's not a Game Over, which was what I was aiming for.
-
Do you know how depressing this is to hear?
...Because I'm at F18, about halfway through, and my Raymoo's only about level 81.
I don't wanna have to grind 15-20 levels, not yet! D:
You thought grinding for Eientei or Yukari
was bad? This is by FAR the biggest grind wall so far.
-
You thought grinding for Eientei or Yukari
was bad? This is by FAR the biggest grind wall so far.
...You don't think I actually grinded for either of those fights, do you? 8D
-
Well still, have fun grinding! :D
IMO he's the hardest boss so far (bloody seals don't count.)
-
Well still, have fun grinding! :D
IMO he's the hardest boss so far (bloody seals don't count.)
I found Yukari to be much harder. I thought 18F boss was one of the easiest personally. Just rush past his first phase and he's cake IMO. Don't horde a master spark for the end, use it at the start, he has so many hp, you'll be able to use it again at the end (probably could 3 times, but it's prob not worth the risk)
-
16F was pretty hard but 18F is all sorts of hatred.
By the way, I remember people talking about his portrait or whatever. What's so bad about them again? I think they're both pretty good for TL portraits.
I've only actually fought him twice so maybe it's not a matter of level but rather it's a matter of strategy or whatever.
-
Well, I can officially confirm I have a 0% chance of beating the F18 boss. With that said I've made it there at level Reimu 84. Even my highest level character falls underneath of the lowest recommended level. ...So Yeah.
While I'd like to say I can maybe just power through this one, it's not gonna happen. Start of Heavenly Demise is basically a death sentence to all but Meiling and maybe Komachi or Yukari
on a good day with buffs. And he's just way too fast and I can't debuff this bastard.
...So yeah. I guess it will be grinding time for me afterall.
...Tomorrow.
-
Speaking of Start of Heavenly Demise: is there any sort of pattern as to when the boss uses it? It is always very annoying when he decides to attack with it just when I have switched in one of my more fragile people for healing or nuking.
And does he ever use Ratetsu Fist in his elemental forms? If not, Tenshi
might have some use in this battle after all...
-
Speaking of Start of Heavenly Demise: is there any sort of pattern as to when the boss uses it? It is always very annoying when he decides to attack with it just when I have switched in one of my more fragile people for healing or nuking.
And does he ever use Ratetsu Fist in his elemental forms? If not, Tenshi
might have some use in this battle after all...
I don't think he does. If he does, it's very rare. That's why I felt hte battle was so easy, he really seems to turn "off" his ability to cast his nasty spells during elemental forms. As long as you survive the start without too many casualties you shouldn't have much trouble IMO. While he can cast some big nukes later on in the fight, it shouldn't be half as bad since you SHOULD have defensive buffs later on in the fight from hakkurei barrier or whatever. You can never get one up in time before his big opener though IIRC.
-
Speaking of Start of Heavenly Demise: is there any sort of pattern as to when the boss uses it? It is always very annoying when he decides to attack with it just when I have switched in one of my more fragile people for healing or nuking.
And does he ever use Ratetsu Fist in his elemental forms? If not, Tenshi
might have some use in this battle after all...
Rasetsu Fist is only active in his first form.
Things to watch out for in the elemental forms, they are listed NOT NECESSARILY because of damage, but because of their secondary effects:
Fire - Exploding Sword (Physical)
Ice - Sealing Flash (MUT)
Wind - God Thunder (DEF Down + PAR)
Nature - Hazard Toxin (Med power PSN)
Mystic - Mirror Illusion (Complete stat bust), Magic Drain (SP = 0)
Spirit - Sealing Flash (MUT), Vicissitudes of Yomotsuhirasaka (DTH)
Final Form - World-Shaking Military Rule (Self-buff, all stats+66%)
-
Reimu level 110. LET'S DO THIS
EDIT: yay
Only two causalities (Suwako and Komachi
), and took him down in one MASTER SPARK after he used World-Shaking Military Rule... I feel that I might have overleveled a bit...
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Why do I keep seeing screenshots with a much larger font for this game and how do I use it?
Also how much HP do these Spirits I need to defeat even have?
-
Why do I keep seeing screenshots with a much larger font for this game and how do I use it?
Also how much HP do these Spirits I need to defeat even have?
In the patch directory (the one linked on the wiki) the font is hgrpp1.ttc. Copy it to your fonts folder. It didn't work for me without AppLocale.
-
Yes, you have to have Japanese locales enabled or use Applocale. If you want to activate japanese locales, go into Control Panel, "Language and Regional Options" or something like that, and find "Language for Non-Unicode Programs" in one of the tabs.
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Okay I copied the Font over and now the game just crashes... And yes I am using applocale.
-
Okay I copied the Font over and now the game just crashes... And yes I am using applocale.
Maybe you copied it wrong >:
Because the game WILL crash if you play it with japanese locales/applocale on and that font isn't installed
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Okay I copied the Font over and now the game just crashes... And yes I am using applocale.
Did you also install the other font (dfminc.ttc)? I have both installed, and I've seen reports that the game will crash without it.
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Everyone who started after me is passing me. >_>
I don't know if that makes me sad or proud.
-
Reimu level 90.
Made it to Mr. Man's fourth form this time. It was a lost cause though, as I lost Reimu early on.
What element he changes into seems to be random...
How much health does his first form have? Because I want to get rid of that form as fast as possible. Probably with a subpar Master Spark if that's what it takes.
But yeah, I'm probably going to go for level 95 before I try again.
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I wondered what happened to the thread since I wasn't getting notifications. :V
Made it to the final floor and....
Got owned by the 2 side bosses, then eventually beat them. Two Hibachi-sama's were annoying though since I didn't have anyone in my party at first that ignored DEF/MND, and could only take out the Pink one. Purple one would eliminate everyone, especially those who could damage him(Which was...Marisa...and Not-Reimu). Eventually won when I added Eiki and Utsuho to my party though I got a bit lucky(Utsuho and Eiki were gone, but I threw in Marisa, used Concentration,then Master Spark, and managed to kill the Purple Hibachi. I think Buddha's Stone Bowl helped here too..or maybe it was against the final boss?). The other boss(Storm of Chaos I think?) was a bit annoying and I only tried once before he eliminated Chen, taking out my main damage dealing force, and killing me, but with an added Eiki, Utsuho, and a more buffed up Flandre(She wasn't too strong before, dealing a small 100k damage per Starbow Break), I won.
Now reached...Winner? That's a funny name. :D I only tried maybe once or twice but he eliminated most of my party till Tenshi remained, barely taking much damage at times. Then he did some attack to kill her. Didn't see it sadly. So now I'm doing a bit of extra training make everyone more stronger, and hoping to get Chen to deal 2 million damage per hit(Currently 1mil unbuffed and around 2mil with the buff).Thank goodness for the macro I made to distribute Skill Points and level bonuses faster and save my fingers.
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K, when I do my sub-par party thing, I believe I'll use a party of
Reimu(MAG)
Remi(DEF) 1st slot tanker
Sakuya(DEF) 2nd slot tanker
Cirno(ATK or possibly HP since her damage is crappy anyway and she dies in like 1 hit)
Minoriko(MND if her heal is still good that way, might have to leave her out for healing/buffing a good bit)
Youmu(ATK)
Rumia(MAG)
Wriggle(DEF) 2nd slot tanker
Iku(I don't fucking know okay)
Sanae(MAG)
Nitori(ATK)
Reisen(MAG)
The stat in parenthesis are their level-up bonus stats for this.
Reimu, Minoriko, Sanae, and Remi are the non-bad characters here. Because I NEED to have Remi for 1st slot tanking in this and I bet I'll need all the healing/defmnd buffing I can get. None of them can deal great damage anyway (Remi's damage will be a ton worse w/o ATK levels)
Also, for the people taking DEF level ups, I'm not sure if I should add MND level ups (seeings as all the tough bosses=mostly MAG attacks) and if so, how much... because they NEED to be able to take a major physical hit.
-
K, when I do my sub-par party thing, I believe I'll use a party of
Reimu(MAG)
Remi(DEF) 1st slot tanker
Sakuya(DEF) 2nd slot tanker
Cirno(ATK or possibly HP since her damage is crappy anyway and she dies in like 1 hit)
Minoriko(MND if her heal is still good that way, might have to leave her out for healing/buffing a good bit)
Youmu(ATK)
Rumia(MAG)
Wriggle(DEF) 2nd slot tanker
Iku(I don't fucking know okay)
Sanae(MAG)
Nitori(ATK)
Reisen(MAG)
The stat in parenthesis are their level-up bonus stats for this.
Reimu, Minoriko, Sanae, and Remi are the non-bad characters here. Because I NEED to have Remi for 1st slot tanking in this and I bet I'll need all the healing/defmnd buffing I can get. None of them can deal great damage anyway (Remi's damage will be a ton worse w/o ATK levels)
Also, for the people taking DEF level ups, I'm not sure if I should add MND level ups (seeings as all the tough bosses=mostly MAG attacks) and if so, how much... because they NEED to be able to take a major physical hit.
Good luck with that. I think you'll have a hard time with the tank situaiton more than anything personally. Iku is going to end up being relatively valuable with that setup though I rekon. You might also want more mnd resistant levelups on non-tanks because the only thing you're going to accomplish by having everyone squishy to magic is forcing yourself to grind more for each boss I think.
-
How far do you plan on taking that sub-par party?
Because I can guarantee you that I've almost never removed Cirno from my party during the main game. She may be suboptimal in a NG+ due to Mystia
but if you're only planning on going to the standard final boss...
(Beside that, anything that's open to debuffs can be very quickly hit with a maximum SPD Debuff by Cirno, which is a huge advantage on a number of hard bosses)
I've also seen Youmu's secret use recently - her ability to focus for double the normal value means that with the right setup she can recover her full SP count in two Focuses. Guess who's now almost unaffected by Djinn Storms?
Anyway yeah. You have Cirno and Sakuya. Be prepared for massive Speed Advantage which is gonna help out a lot.
-
How far do you plan on taking that sub-par party?
Unless I get completely stumped at a boss and have to face unrealistic amounts of grinding if I want to get past it, I'd be going for Final Boss. No Plus-Disk stuff though (most likely not, at least)
And actually, most of my squishy characters have an at least decent MND stat. Youmu/Cirno/Reisen
are the ones with bad MND, but I might go for HP bonus on Cirno (is her damage enough late-game for ATK levels to be worth it?) and Youmu has great HP so she takes a hit from MAG, and the third, well... blah, at least she has good SPD and a self-buff on all stats.
But yeah, I'm wondering how many (if any) MND levels I should be putting on my tanking characters. They NEED to be able to take major physical hits and are not ideal tanks, thankfully they both have 100~ level up rate and a MND growth of 7, which means their MND isn't bad at all.
Oh, and I'm not sure what to do with Iku. I'll probably mostly use her for buffing my (mostly squishy) damage dealers, which means she'll probably end up in 3rd (possibly 2nd) place sometimes. Her attacking ability is okay, but I need her to survive for buffing, so I'm wondering if I should boost MND (this would give me a good 2nd slot tank for MAG-only bosses like 16F and most of the final boss) or boost her less-great DEF stat so she can take all kinds of hits well.
Then again, with my low amount of damage dealers I can only hope Cirno helps enough with random battles to make up for my boss-killing-oriented party. Giving Iku MAG might be helpful for that... but... gah.
Maybe giving her MND for a MAG tanker against certain bosses would be best. 3rd doesn't get hit by physical attacks too often anyway, and she shouldn't usually get 0hkoed by them.
Also, sub-par is also meaning basically "all the characters most people agree to not be very good and don't use". Of which I'm using almost all of them save maybe 2 or 3, all that I can while still having a possibility of winning without mass grind.
-
Mr. Man is really really hard
-
Um... not to sound rude, but he wasn't that hard for me to beat "Mr. Man".
It was just a matter of using Reimu and 16F in conjunction so the party has a full DEF/MND buff and is healed up. If your at a good level, most of his attacks shouldn't even hit 100, cept maybe sumthin-fist and maybe Start of Heavenly Demise during the Final Phase
To sum the fight up, if your have a full DEF/MND buff and your still getting slapped around, Grind Moar. :V
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Yeah, Mystearica is actually right. On my first play Mr.Man was a nightmare and I eventually did a 1 hour 30 minute battle where 10F wall sat out and took nearly 0 damage from everything, switching in nukers and healers.
The second play I had Meiling-Remi-Breastwoman16F out in that order for most of the battle and kept my DEF/MND buffs up, they rarely took damage from anything.
-
Well I got the large font to work after somehow breaking a system 32 file just by moving the fonts...
-
Are the 19F Sigil Guardians supposed to be hard? I just defeated the two middle ones on my first attempt without very much trouble at all...
EDIT: And there goes one more, without any characters lost at all. Oh god that thing was fast, though...
-
Beat Mr. Man at Reimu level 95! 8)
I should have recorded it as this was an epic battle.
I think the fight took almost an hour. :V
Reimu and Yukari
ran out of TP 3/4 into the fight and were a massive pain as they couldn't be switched out.
FYI I didn't use Tenshi
. The 50% barrier buffs were the key to success indeed.
I kind of panicked when Master Spark didn't finish off his last phase as all my other nukers were already gone.
Remilia was bashing away and I see him use his massive buff.
I knew I couldn't survive his next attack, so I bring in Chen. No time for Kimontonkou (his bar was blue) I do an unbuffed Flight of Idaten.
Mr Man dies.
wut
-
Chen is pretty much god tier in main game. Highest damage output by far, very high SP recovery, and she generally takes ONE hit without kicking the bucket, at least.
Are the 19F Sigil Guardians supposed to be hard? I just defeated the two middle ones on my first attempt without very much trouble at all...
EDIT: And there goes one more, without any characters lost at all. Oh god that thing was fast, though...
Cosmic generally gives a little trouble, but other then that they aren't difficult at all. 20F randoms are practically worse.
-
How strong is
Nitori
on Floor 8 I need to know like Right now because I just encountered her
-
Fourth sigil guardian defeated. Bosses that you can keep under near-constant paralysis lockdown are always fun... And now on to floor 20!
Also, all characters are now level 100 or above. Yay?
-
How strong is Nitori
on Floor 8 I need to know like Right now because I just encountered her
8F? Only slightly worse then a normal random battle.
-
Oh god. 20F random encounters are not very nice... Time to grind a bit.
-
8F? Only slightly worse then a normal random battle.
Wow all it took was a few Silent Selenes and a Master Spark...
Wish I knew it would be that easy back on F7.
-
Oh god. 20F random encounters are not very nice... Time to grind a bit.
20F random encounters also give about 7~12k skp and 20~52k exp. Even if you only last a battle or two up there, its completely worth it.
-
20F random encounters also give about 7~12k skp and 20~52k exp. Even if you only last a battle or two up there, its completely worth it.
I see what you mean. Right now, my strategy consists of going up to floor 20, MASTER SPARKing the first enemy that appears (cleaning up with Patchy, Flandre
, and Rinnosuke
as needed), and then going back to Gensokyo to refill Marisa's SP. It still has me leveling up far faster than grinding on floor 19 would.
But then there are the few enemies that don't die in one turn... The axe dwarves and doll trios just completely obliterate me, and the demons is just a matter of hoping that they don't decide to wipe my party before I can defeat them.
-
It's REALLY depressing how people who started after me are farther than me. >_>
Also, I can get to Mr. Man's last elemental form but I always get wreck'd by sealing slash.
EDIT: Reimu is level 105.
-
EDIT: Reimu is level 105.
you haven't won yet what
Tanks and defense buffs. Also, make sure your tanks have a Shuttle Body or Star of Elendil or Ribbon or something so status effects don't hit them.
-
8F? Only slightly worse then a normal random battle.
9F is what you have to worry about. With Reimu at 35 she was still able to one-shot anyone with PDLC99MW Megawatt Linear Gun if they weren't buffed. That includes Remi, Meiling, and Yuugi
.
When does Komachi
stop being useless for tanking?
-
I suck at this type of game. :toot:
I'm honestly way way way way better at Shin Megami Tensei: Nocturne than this.
I'll try that, though. I always get really fucking close to beating him. >_> Well. Kind of.
-
When does Komachi
stop being useless for tanking?
She doesn't get 1shotted, but she can't just stay out forever like a normal tank because everything will hurt her severely. Boosting her affinities helps.
-
Oops...
I accidentally got the last Frog and my Party is only around level 32...
I'm dead aren't I?
EDIT: I was killed ruthlessly.
-
Oops...
I accidentally got the last Frog and my Party is only around level 32...
I'm dead aren't I?
EDIT: I was killed ruthlessly.
I beat her around 32 but it was really, really close. I had four people left :D
EDIT: Beat Nitori
. PAR finally landing somewhat consistently near the end of the battle helped immensely, as were the speed debuffs when they would actually stick (which wasn't often). Compared to the attempt before the last one it was a great improvement since I only lost one person to an Extending Arm. I lost two important characters to two back-to-back Extending Arms before I could even act last time :(
All that's left on 9F for me to take out is the boss, but I want her drop so I might try grinding a little bit. I tried it just for fun last night and she summoned three of those damned SP draining mages. I got her down to wear she was using Grand Patriot's Elixir and Mind Starmine (ouch) but failed there. I'm considering bringing Rumia along on the next attempt for Demarcation since those MND debuffs in particular are a pain.
-
She's really easy.
She never got an attack out on me.
Just spam Royal Flare.
-
I guess grinding wasn't needed:
(http://i163.photobucket.com/albums/t299/Barrakketh/temp/th_reisen_win.png) (http://s163.photobucket.com/albums/t299/Barrakketh/temp/?action=view¤t=reisen_win.png)
(http://i163.photobucket.com/albums/t299/Barrakketh/temp/th_reisen_remaining.png) (http://s163.photobucket.com/albums/t299/Barrakketh/temp/?action=view¤t=reisen_remaining.png)
Tough fight doing it that way, though.
-
The boss from the last frog has sumthin like 128k HP, which I found out in the original TH Labyrinth thread. That boss apperently is weak, dmg wise. I would reccomend on avoiding that boss until you can handle 9F trash pretty well. This will make the fight much easier. If you want you can fight the boss now, but I merely reccomend avoiding it for a bit.
-
The boss from the last frog has sumthin like 128k HP, which I found out in the original TH Labyrinth thread. That boss apperently is weak, dmg wise. I would reccomend on avoiding that boss until you can handle 9F trash pretty well. This will make the fight much easier. If you want you can fight the boss now, but I merely reccomend avoiding it for a bit.
F9 trash was weak as soon as I came to the floor. I also fought the F7-9 Bosses final encounter it actually looks fairly manageable unlike the boss from the Frog.
-
The boss from the last frog has sumthin like 128k HP, which I found out in the original TH Labyrinth thread. That boss apperently is weak, dmg wise. I would reccomend on avoiding that boss until you can handle 9F trash pretty well. This will make the fight much easier. If you want you can fight the boss now, but I merely reccomend avoiding it for a bit.
The Japanese wiki has her at 188k. Her damage output isn't low, either. Depending on your non-tanks that are currently active either her CLD or NTR row attacks will probably 1HKO them and deal heavy damage to your tanks. Depending on your level her NTR single attack will probably be able to 1HKO everyone but Meiling, and when I first fought her Meiling died in one hit, too.
I was also unfortunate enough to have her paralyze my entire party the first time I fought her, so the second time around I equipped some PAR resistance items. She also has the same attack that Reisen's
mage minions have that drains your SP and can cause PAR.
Royal Flare spam might help, but Patchy is all but guaranteed to die to the first Mishaguji-sama that the boss uses.
-
Really close but it wasn't enough.
He cheapshotted Suwako REALLY early in the battle. 8|
-
Well I got
Komachi
guess I should go after Nitori or Suwako
now. Which one is easier?
-
Reimu level 137. It seems like I have reached the point where I can actually start exploring floor 20 without having to MASTER SPARK everything and go back to Gensokyo for resting... Of course, discovering
Yukari's
ability to essentially give everyone an extra turn helps a lot. And for when I finally find the boss, I have around 2.2M unused skillpoints to allocate.
-
Reimu level 137. It seems like I have reached the point where I can actually start exploring floor 20 without having to MASTER SPARK everything and go back to Gensokyo for resting... Of course, discovering Yukari's
ability to essentially give everyone an extra turn helps a lot. And for when I finally find the boss, I have around 2.2M unused skillpoints to allocate.
Level 137? Get to the final boss already! You should be able to win by now XD
-
What level should I be before I could realistically take down
Sanae's Foe
?
Well I got Komachi
guess I should go after Nitori or Suwako
now. Which one is easier?
Nitori might be easier is if your tanks can handle her big nuke. I had actually gotten the other first, though.
-
I'm getting somewhat pissed.
Fucking SoHD
-
Level 137? Get to the final boss already! You should be able to win by now XD
Well, I just ran into her by accident, and things went much better than I would have thought they would given that I didn't have my boss-fighting party. Managed to get her to summon all her three... things, and did quite a bit of damage to the top one before my only healer Meiling bit the dust. Still managed to survive for quite some while with Reimu and Mr. Guy until they both got DTHed by Hyperspace Slash (which, by the way, is officially the most awesome-looking attack I have seen so far). I'm going to explore the rest of floor 20, and then I'll allocate those two billion skillpoints and give her another try.
-
After much lazing floor 16 beech taken down. Details below:
Followed the plan on page 1 of the second topic for taking her down. Tanks were Tenshi and Eirin. They did their job well. I learned I need to either raise Eirin's max SP or get her higher recovery, but other than that she never died and only left her slot to make room for the final assault to prevent Yukari from reaching her 3rd form, so I'm satisfied with the job.
I don't know what you guys are talking about when you say Orin isn't good against bosses. Yeah, her composite attack Blazing Wheel for nuking random mobs is useless against bosses, but if you've been focusing her level-ups and skillpoints in Attack, like you should, her Thousand Needle Mountain should do reasonable damage. She pinged Yukari for around 15k-18k per shot, which made for some nice delay each turn while I kept prepping everything else for later with Ran's team-buffer and Reimu used her buff and healer to keep the main team healthy.
Marisa really redeemed herself for me this fight. She let loose a 100% and full-SP Master Spark before each barrier change. For the last one I combined her with Patchy and her Silent Silene and Nitori's Megawatt to try and take her down right away. I didn't, but I got very, very close. She only had about 50k HP left, which was a problem because her biggest moves made using stuff that could finish her an issue. I managed to wear her down with Chen a bit, but that barely did 9k per fight and Reisen wasn't able to cut her defenses fast enough. My casulties before everything was over were Reimu and... Tenshi. The issue here was that while Ran's team buffer kept everyone in reserve at 100% defense/Mdef and 100% attack/magic buff, the main team went through them kinda fast, so although I tried to buff everyone up before the last djinn storm, I didn't have much time... I needed Yukari to go down fast since Reimu and Ran were already out of SP and waiting to be able to recast the buffs could just have Yukari spam her debuffs to ruin it for me. As such, Tenshi was hit with minimal buffs and not enough SP to recast State of Enlightenment. At that point I sent in Meiling to take her place and tried to go all-out, but Yukari's attacks were too much even for the people at 100%. However, I noticed Marisa, who had been sitting in reserve ever since the final assault attempt, had restored almost all her SP, meaning she could cast another decently-powered Master Spark. When I pulled her out she had ~68% of her magic buff left, but rather than waste SP concentrating I let loose the spark yet again and it did about 60k damage, which more than assured Yukari wouldn't survive.
I plan to use the new character later, but unfortunetly the issue mentioned before has indeed came up again... I'll need to do some skillpoint level grinding just to get her up to par with the rest of the team. I plan to make her another tank and replace Yuugi with her due to too many bosses using magic (poor Yuugi).
-
Oh man, 20F is :*
I never though I would hear myself say this, but I'm actually enjoying grinding. :o
Reimu level 105. I'm gaining levels left and right.
With some speed manipulation shenanigans, I figured out a pretty good strategy:
First comes Rinnosuke doing World-Shaking Military Rule, right after that comes Marisa with a fully powered Master Spark right off the bat.
And then comes Flandre with an 80% buff Laveatein which KILLS EVERYTHING as it does more damage than freaking Master Spark and is multi-targeted.
So yeah, let's explore 19F now. ::)
-
Well I beat
Suwako
she was easy after a little preparation. Was only a problem near the end with "Froggy braves the Elements"
and once after the second Mugeshami-sama
Now I can't decide who to replace on my team...
-
Whoops.
Anyway, any level recommendations for Sanae's
Foe?
-
lol, 10 minute grind, gain 4 levels.
Man, these 20F guys drop some amazing items. :*
+92% ATK and +72% MAG? That's being awefully generous here.
Anyway, any level recommendations for Sanae's
Foe?
I beat it after completing the 10F-12F maze, but before fighting the 12F boss.
I'm pretty sure you can beat it sooner than that though.
-
To be honest
Suwako is good, but I wouldn't make it a habit of using her. If you want to use her, then Level Ups should go into ATK and not MAG. This is because her Iron Ring and her Croaking Frog use ATK while her multi-targets use MAG.
lol, 10 minute grind, gain 4 levels.
Man, these 20F guys drop some amazing items. :*
+92% ATK and +72% MAG? That's being awefully generous here.
That one item tends to be the hardest to get out of all the drops... unless you count the Ribbon from one of the other 20F trash. Another drop on 20F has the stats ATK, DEF, MND and SPD +72%, which is probly better for overall compared to the 96%-72%
-
Lol, everyone thinks scourge is amazing, but it's really one of the least useful items from that floor IMO. Though it has mag which the other items lack. Still though, most mag users don't benefit a whole lot form the 92% attack, and the number of composite attacks is few (and most that do use them as a main attack are more for utility purposes than actual damage).
Armands however is just plain bad >=P.
-
Armands however is just plain bad >=P.
Yeah, Armads is bad, unless you need the WND Aff and some ATK at the same time, but even then the thing is still pretty fail. Scourge is ok on Flandre
, but she would be better off with a Blue Saber or 2 and maybe a Ribbon/Star of Elendil. Meiling could use a Scourge nicly now that I think about it, since Meiling uses ATK and MAG when she heals and on top of that, Meilings ok dps gets better.
-
Yeah, Armads is bad, unless you need the WND Aff and some ATK at the same time, but even then the thing is still pretty fail. Scourge is ok on Flandre
, but she would be better off with a Blue Saber or 2 and maybe a Ribbon/Star of Elendil. Meiling could use a Scourge nicly now that I think about it, since Meiling uses ATK and MAG when she heals and on top of that, Meilings ok dps gets better.
I'd rather have a tank drop on Meiling, or if you really wanted to increase her healing abilities, the flower blade. It has as much atk as scourge has mag. so you lose 92 atk, but you get the speed and defense and mnd as well. And def and mnd on a a tank is more important IMO.
But yeah, scourge is good on Flandre. Though starbrow break doesn't even use her mag does it? So for bosses flower blade is prob better again.
Anyway scourge is hardly the most rare drop. It's actually tied with 3 others as the most common. the thing is diamond knights just seem to spawn less often than the other mobs. Ribbon is the rarest, fllowed by palisen files and karen device (Which are tied).
-
Ribbon is the rarest, fllowed by palisen files and karen device (Which are tied).
Oh wow, I got all three of those from 20F drops before I got ANY of the 20F-drop-exclusive items :V
I didn't get all the 20F-exclusive items until lv210 though so, yeah... ;-;
Just reached 26F, whee.
-
I merely said that Scourge would be good on
Flandre
cause her 2nd and 3rd spells use ATK and MAG, and Scourge boosts both. The DEF and MND boosts from Flower Blade are negligible on Flandre
anyway due to her poor DEF and non-existant MND, but I guess they would help a bit. I would just get her a Blue Saber or 2 and toss her a Ribbon/Star of Elendil.
Ribbon being so rare is helped a bit by 1 being treasure on 13F or 14F... I forget which had it.
-
Quick question: do the switches for the 10F-12F puzzle reset if you return to Gensokyo?
-
no
EDIT: Beat ya to it, OKUU
-
Nope. They do NOT reset.
-
Wording on one of the wiki pages made me wonder, but I guess it was warning you of one long chain of switch-flipping.
I found a Blade Cuisinart as an enemy drop on 11F and updated the wiki accordingly.
Also, any notable enemies on 11F and 12F to be wary about? Those damned shadow cats turned up on 11F, and one enemy (don't remember which) can inflict DTH. I assume the Anguished Crier palette-swap has an equally annoying attack if you let them live long enough. I'm actually surprised that a good portion of the enemies have enough health and/or resists that Marisa and Patchy aren't mowing through them now.
On the previous floors a few levels was enough to ramp up the damage to a point where only the really resistant enemies (like these Vortexes) or those with dumb amounts of health (Pressure, those Hammerheads that I'm now seeing) would live and one of the characters that did single target damage would clean up the stragglers. Now I'm actually having to use two characters with all/row attacks to finish battles quickly.
-
Wording on one of the wiki pages made me wonder, but I guess it was warning you of one long chain of switch-flipping.
I found a Blade Cuisinart as an enemy drop on 11F and updated the wiki accordingly.
Also, any notable enemies on 11F and 12F to be wary about? Those damned shadow cats turned up on 11F, and one enemy (don't remember which) can inflict DTH. I assume the Anguished Crier palette-swap has an equally annoying attack if you let them live long enough. I'm actually surprised that a good portion of the enemies have enough health and/or resists that Marisa and Patchy aren't mowing through them now.
On the previous floors a few levels was enough to ramp up the damage to a point where only the really resistant enemies (like these Vortexes) or those with dumb amounts of health (Pressure, those Hammerheads that I'm now seeing) would live and one of the characters that did single target damage would clean up the stragglers. Now I'm actually having to use two characters with all/row attacks to finish battles quickly.
Yeah, the game gets harder as you go further, kinda like they used to back in the old days, what a concept! I miss those days. *hugs his copy of touhou laby until its eyes pop out*.
-
I don't know what you guys are talking about when you say Orin isn't good against bosses. Yeah, her composite attack Blazing Wheel for nuking random mobs is useless against bosses, but if you've been focusing her level-ups and skillpoints in Attack, like you should, her Thousand Needle Mountain should do reasonable damage. She pinged Yukari for around 15k-18k per shot, which made for some nice delay each turn while I kept prepping everything else for later with Ran's team-buffer and Reimu used her buff and healer to keep the main team healthy.
Doing less than 20k per hit to the 16F boss is kind of unimpressive taking into account Orin's
below average durability. Your dedicated attackers will probably be moving slightly less but should be doing at least twice twice that per hit, probably more.
Anyways, I've finally reached Mr. 18F. His first form is wrecking my party with Start of Heavenly Demise/whatever fist. Once he switches forms it becomes easier but I tend to lose most of my characters in that first form, so eh. I'm considering forming a party of 3 attackers and 16F so I can have everyone act twice if they survive the first hit, which will hopefully be enough to pull me through. Reimu is lv 90 right now.
-
Oh man, 20F is :*
I know! And you never stop gaining levels like crazy until long after you stop being at a reasonable level to defeat the final boss. Enjoy!
-
02:07] <Face> Mr. Man's forest is painful ish
[02:07] <Face> but Nature is by no means his toughest form
[02:07] * AhKi advises all to mind the gap.
[02:07] *** AhKi changed nick to Marisa-InStudy
[02:07] <Face> IMO it's CLD :|
[02:07] <Miles-Nutworth> Knock it out in a single step
[02:09] <Face> I also don't like FIR form
[02:09] <Face> because of lack of CLD nukes
[02:10] <VanilmirthHime> Ako ay buong pusong naniniwala sa kasabihan na ito.
[02:10] <Marisa-InStudy> buong
[02:10] <Marisa-InStudy> best word ever.
[02:10] <Face> bing bong
[02:10] <Marisa-InStudy> Good night.
[02:11] <Face> I like nanininininininiininininninininwala
[02:11] <VanilmirthHime> Night AhKi
[02:12] <VanilmirthHime> At alam kong ito ay makakamtan natin sa pamamagitan ng isang mabuting edukasyon.
[02:12] <Face> omg
[02:12] <Face> I know one word in filipino
[02:12] <Face> edukasyon is education
[02:12] <Face> holy shit!!!!!!!
[02:13] <VanilmirthHime> Naniniwala akong sa tulong ng ating mga kabataan matutupad ddin ang pangarap ng bawat Pilipino na darating ang araw na ang Pilipinas ay magiging isang dakilang bayan kung saang wala ng taong maghihirap
[02:13] <Face> CLD form knocked Yuugi, Marisa, and someone else out
[02:13] <Face> ugh
[02:14] <Face> Also, Reimu is MVP for this fight.
[02:14] <Face> She tanks the shit out of everything and buffs and heals
[02:16] <Momiji> off to bed, g'nite o/
[02:17] <Face> come on
[02:17] <Face> one last SS
[02:17] <Face> You can do it!!!!!
[02:17] <Face> YESSSSSSSSS
[02:18] <Face> :D:D:D:D:D:DD:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:DD:D:D:D:d
[02:18] <Face> D:D:D::DD:d;
[02:18] <Face> d
[02:18] <Face> ;d:D:;d
[02:18] <Face> D:D:
[02:18] <Face> d;d;d;
[02:18] <Face> ;DD:D:
[02:18] <Face> d
[02:18] <Face> d;
[02:18] <Face> d;
[02:18] <Face> dD::D:DD
[02:18] <Face> d;lfksd;lf
[02:18] <Face> most nervewraktingk fvidtory evetr imy siltl chskaing*
[02:19] <AF_sleepz> lkjo;ij;o
[02:21] <Face> Lmfao Lady Rinnosuke
[02:22] <Face> floor 19 better be the best thing ever
[02:22] <Face> ok
[02:22] <Face> so
[02:23] <Face> which stats should I boost Mr. Man in
[02:23] <Face> ATK and DEF/MND?
[02:23] <Face> so he can tank
[02:23] <Face> after buffinf
*Most nervewracking victory ever I'm still shaking
-
Doing less than 20k per hit to the 16F boss is kind of unimpressive taking into account Orin's
below average durability. Your dedicated attackers will probably be moving slightly less but should be doing at least twice twice that per hit, probably more.
Mine had some pretty decent MND on her (only a bit lower than my slot 2 tank, in fact), which means with Raymoo and goldenbitch's buffs she could easily stay out and get a good amount of hits in. Not my strongest attacker, but still pretty reasonable.
I could have used a number of other attackers, namely Patchy and Aquabitch (Chen is too weak), but I was saving them for the big nuke at the end, which means I had to get them to 100% ATK/MAG and keep them there until right before the boss's final form.
-
Isn't Scourge supposed to be one of those super-rare items that everyone has a lot of trouble getting? Because I just got two in the span of fifteen minutes...
EDIT: AAAGGHGHGAGHAGGHHHH
Having gotten rid of all three of the final boss's summons without too much trouble (apart from forgetting to switch Flandre
out in time and promptly losing her at an early stage of the battle) and having dealt quite a bit of damage to her, she pulls out Flux of Something or Another and DTHs Reimu and Mr. Guy. Things only went downhill from there... Why was Reimu holding an Omiokane's Insight instead of something useful anyway?
-
...on my first encounter in 26F, I get an Ultimate ZUN Hat.
On the next encounter I get PAR lockdown instantly and lose.
Apparently, Reimu lv245 isn't enough for this floor. And AUUUUGH MY ULTIMATE ZUN HAT ;-;
-
YES
With a little bit more strategy and carefulness (and Reimu level 152), fighting the final boss went much better. Only lost Remilia, Tenshi
, and Rinnosuke
, and had no casualties at all until the three summons had gone down.
And now to explore the post-game content.
-
Beat 19F without breaking a sweat. Not even that Cosmic guardian was any threat, beat it on my first attempt. Although this could have been because
Flandre
was hitting for 100k a hit. :V
Went to check out the final boss and got to see all three limbs before they all overwhelmed me.
Oh well. Grinding is pretty fun on 20F anyway~
Level 123 at the moment.
-
FYI Everyone, the reccomended level for the Final Boss is Reimu Lv 140-150. But this is no problem since 20F can send to to Reimu Lv 200-ish without TO much trouble. I am saying this so that you'll know what level to be.
-
Still, beating it at 130~135 is totally doable without trouble, depending on your party.
-
True, but luck is a bigger factor at the point. If the boss uses any of it's more BS moves, your in trouble.
-
Went back to the earlier floors, recruited
Mystia
(whose portrait is absolutely adorable, by the way), completely obliterated the Bloodstained Seals on 1F and 6F, and defeated Rumia, Youmu and Cirno v2. I then proceeded to run into Flandre
, and promptly got my party wiped in a few turns.
Also, oh god floor 20 has bosses absolutely everywhere now.
And what about these stars? Given the blue orb things I can currently use, I apparently have two of them, but is there anywhere I can actually check them? And for that matter, what exactly do I need to do to get more?
-
Went back to the earlier floors, recruited Mystia
(whose portrait is absolutely adorable, by the way), completely obliterated the Bloodstained Seals on 1F and 6F, and defeated Rumia, Youmu and Cirno v2. I then proceeded to run into Flandre
, and promptly got my party wiped in a few turns.
Also, oh god floor 20 has bosses absolutely everywhere now.
And what about these stars? Given the blue orb things I can currently use, I apparently have two of them, but is there anywhere I can actually check them? And for that matter, what exactly do I need to do to get more?
Boss difficulty doesn't exactly scale by floor, by the way; Chen on 18F is loleasy. And you get another star for...
Beating all Ver.2 bosses
Beating the 5 Bloodstained Seals
Getting all 100 items (things to worry about getting are 20F rare drops, 100th item is from Boss Rush)
You see them in Akyu's House now. (Save place)
-
19F beaten, mapped all everything on 20F that you can get to before beating Final Boss.
-
Final boss is pretty cool. Reimu is only level 120 now though. :
Grinding is fun.
-
So is there a HP trigger for the F9 boss's Elixer Buff?
-
And what about these stars? Given the blue orb things I can currently use, I apparently have two of them, but is there anywhere I can actually check them? And for that matter, what exactly do I need to do to get more?
Game Cleared
32 Allies Joined
Collected 100 items
All Ver 2 Bosses Clear
Blood Seals Purified
Enhanced Bosses Clear
x 30F final boss kills(x = amount of times you won since he is refightable)
So is there a HP trigger for the F9 boss's Elixer Buff?
~Baleeted for my own stupidity.
-
Do you mean Buddha's Stone Bowl or Hourai Elixir?. If its the former, it happens when at least 3 stat debuff's are put on Eintei combined, so don't use too many Stat Debuffs. If its the latter, then it randomly happens I think, not sure about it.
Wrong floor boss!
Yes, I'm pretty sure its her final phase when she starts casting that. Not 100% sure though.
-
Wrong floor boss!
Yes, I'm pretty sure its her final phase when she starts casting that. Not 100% sure though.
Yeah just realized it. x_x When I saw Elixer I only thought of the one I said
-
Well I beat
Reisen
. Guess I might use this new character.
-
Well I beat Reisen
. Guess I might use this new character.
Did you beat her with most of her minions up? Like...killing no more than two before you brought her down?
-
No I didn't feel like grinding or using Rumia just to get her drop. Also do i need to do the 10-12F switch stuff all in one sitting?
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No, the switches stay the same when you leave. There is a home run stretch at the end where you've got to do an entire section at once without returning, though. You'll know when you're at it because you'll reach a 12F relay point, and a button that sets all three switches to ON.
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...Dual Funeral Washing Machine? What kind of an attack name is that?
In other words, I just got destroyed by the 9F Bloodstained Seal. That thing is just too fast...
EDIT: Tenshi v2
down, with my last attack just before she was about to wipe my party with Violent Motherland.
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Ah, goddamnit. :(
Managed to kill all the final boss's limbs, but wasn't fast enough to finish her off.
She buffed like thrice in a row and her speed went through the roof.
Level 135 by the way.
-
All V.2s and all Bloodstained Seals have been beaten, save for Final Boss V.2
-
And there goes Alice and
Nitori
as well. These v2 bosses are a lot of fun so far...
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I agree yoshicookie :D They all seem to have around 2 million HP as well, so thats one thing that isn't to difficult to deal with.
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Well I beat Reisen
. Guess I might use this new character.
It's worth it. But... maybe not immediately. Her real use is those buff spells - they buff active party members for 20% in two stats, which is not much at all... but they also buff all reserve characters for 15% in those same stats, too. There isn't any other character who can do this, so it's a huge advantage.
But, er, yeah. You probably noticed her support SP Costs are a little ridiculous. Like I said, she might not be as useful as she could be just yet as a result.
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It's worth it. But... maybe not immediately. Her real use is those buff spells - they buff active party members for 20% in two stats, which is not much at all... but they also buff all reserve characters for 15% in those same stats, too. There isn't any other character who can do this, so it's a huge advantage.
But, er, yeah. You probably noticed her support SP Costs are a little ridiculous. Like I said, she might not be as useful as she could be just yet as a result.
Pretty sure it's the opposite stats for the reserve characters. Doesn't matter much though, both of the stat pairs are desireable all the time.
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Anybody know what's the minimal level requirement for post-game content, or at least, 21F?
My Reimu is 180 and that Baal Avatar boss on 21F still own me so hard :V.
It's getting boring to grind from 130~180+... I even have 18F as MVP now thanks to all those battle count from grinding on 20F :V
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It's getting boring to grind from 130~180+... I even have 18F as MVP now thanks to all those battle count from grinding on 20F :V
That's quite...erm..yeah.. :V
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Seems like most of the early v2 bosses are complete pushovers (honorable mention goes to Chen for dealing almost zero damage to everyone before I even got my defense buffs up). So far, the only ones I haven't defeated on my first attempt are
Mokou
, Flandre
, Yukari
, and Rinnosuke
. Had a bit of trouble with Yuugi due to 280k Knockout in Three Steps what, but since she doesn't use any attacks that target your entire party, it simply became a matter of putting a few attackers in the back slots while hoping that you don't run out of sacrifices to put in the front ones.
Also ran into the boss rush by mistake. While KOing the first few bosses with a single Attack command from Remilia (and nuking both Alice's team and Eientei
with a single Royal Flare) was a lot of fun, a lack of planning quickly had Tenshi
and Meiling run out of TP. And losing both Patchy and Flandre
due to underestimating the speed of the 15F bosses didn't help either... I gave up around the 19F sigil guardians.
-
Apologies for the delay. NG+ save game all fixed.
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Okay, I killed the top and left limbs (the most dangerous).
Should I do as much damage to the boss herself now before killing the last limb?
EDIT:
AAAGGGGHGHHGGAAAAHHH Overflowing Unnatural Power.
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Okay, I killed the top and left limbs (the most dangerous).
Should I do as much damage to the boss herself now before killing the last limb?
EDIT:
AAAGGGGHGHHGGAAAAHHH Overflowing Unnatural Power.
wtf? kill the right limb or else it spams scourge...which is very bad. Kill all 3 really. Every time you kill one, the others gain new powers that make them singly more dangerous than the other limbs combined.
Besides, left limb is least dangerous IMO, even with magic jitsu, its spells are rather wussy compared to everything else the boss has.
Last, if you kill the right limb, you no longer need physical tanks...at all. So you can stick whoever the heck you want on the far left with no fear of being owned by some kinda physical attack.
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It doesn't really spam Scourge; it just unlocks it for use. Heck, I've always killed it last since it has the most HP, I just MASTER SPARK it after everything else dies, and I've never seen Scourge yet. Not that it's ever had more then one or two more moves at that point.
The top has tons of annoying moves and the left has Multi-hits that kill my squishies. The only thing I worry about from the right is a random single-target attack on 3rd character (which is rare) or someone getting SIL.
-
Really? I killed the right one last just once.. and it used scourge 4 times in a row, at which point I just said "fux this" and quit.
-
I'm curious, did anyone else notice that the boss theme used for Youmu/Alice also appears as the Stage 4 boss theme in touhou-alike Hollow World of God?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u-OMOL_mAF8
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Question: Where's a good place to farm skillpoints pre-floor 18?
Since my skillpoint levels in everyone was so bad that my wear-down char on 16F's boss did under 20k and my final assault included a 100%-buffed, full-SP Master Spark that did 90k damage (and a 25k Silent Selene with the same 100% buff), I think it might be good to try and get everyone to better skillpoint levels than just 45 in their main stats...
EDIT: Yeah,I know adding 16F beech to my team was probably not the smartest idea at this point since she needs a good skillpoint investment just to get on par with everyone else (and then even more to be on par with where she SHOULD be), but Yuugi's Mdef was too big an issue... I'll just have to skip out on 18F's cooties, sadly.
-
Seems like most v2 bosses can be divided into two groups: the "let's wipe your party" group and the "almost zero damage to everyone" group. (The exception would probably be Yuugi, who prefers to kill off one party member at a time.) Right now, it would seem like I have run of out bosses in the latter group, which means that I probably need to grind for a bit...
Or, I suppose, I could just use my 4M skillpoints amassed from fighting all those bosses to pump the defense levels of my tanks to ridiculous levels. Though that still doesn't help with those defense-piercing moves... (Ratetsu Fist D:)
-
I guess i'll start on the Floor 10-12 Switch Puzzle tonight. I at least want to try and Fight
Tenshi
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Gave the final boss another shot only to be killed again after the limbs go off.
How much health does she have anyway?
Chen wailing away, an 80% buffed Flandre
and a fully powered Master Spark apparently wasn't enough.
Why won't she just die?! D:
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Not too sure about the exact numbers, but it has to be at least several million. The battle is far from over once you take down her three summons. In my winning fight against her, the final phase was by far the longest part of the battle.
-
2 million HP if I'm correct, for her final phase
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When all limbs are down, she become immune to all status effect + double DEF/MDEF/SPD :V, not to mention Overflowing Natural Power :V
So try to Master Spark/burst damage her BEFORE taking down the last limb.
The top limb also has Djinn storm when the other 2 is down btw, totally screw my Marisa once
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I finally decided to start playing this game again after a bit of a hiatus, and just beat the 16F boss. Yay!
And considering the attempt really got off to a bad start, with Suwako
being one-shotted before she even got off a single attack in phase 1. And half my other damage dealers dying partway through phase 2. After the last Djinn Storm, I believe the only characters I had left with any real offensive punch were Yuugi and Marisa. So I basically hung on for dear life while people started dying after IN Quadruple Barrier. In the end, Ran
finished her off with an attack for a measly 3700. She was literally the only character left alive at that point who could do more than 0 damage to her.
Reimu level was 71. I don't know if that's perhaps a tad low for there or not? (I know it's below the wiki's recommended level for that fight). Although I did break out a pile of the skill points that I'd been hording, after I kept having half my party die in phase 1. Would you believe that I was sitting on 986,000 by the time I reached the boss? >.>
-
Please note that
Suwako
should only be used when your going to dps the 16F boss to death just before it's 3rd phase starts. Any sooner, she will die horribly and painfully. :ohdear:
-
Please note that Suwako
should only be used when your going to dps the 16F boss to death just before it's 3rd phase starts. Any sooner, she will die horribly and painfully. :ohdear:
Unless you've used Cirno or Komachi
to drop the boss down to -50% Speed, which you should do anyway - this is easily the biggest tip I'd give to anybody planning to take her down in the future, because she's got 0 Debuff resistance, and dropping her speed down to half makes dealing with her Djinn Storms so much easier.
-
Unless you've used Cirno or Komachi
to drop the boss down to -50% Speed, which you should do anyway
Yeah, I'd used Komachi
and Reisen
to keep just about all her stats at or close to -50% most of the time. I'm quite confident that I wouldn't have been able to come close to winning without that. But really, it was just bad luck. At the time I swapped Suwako
in, she immediately got hit by the single thing that could have killed her, with the boss's offense like that: a Quadruple Barrier targeted at the 4th slot, a moment before I could get a defense buff onto her, and even then she only died by about 200 hp. Nothing else would have been much of an issue for her at that point.
-
Yeah, I'd used Komachi
and Reisen
to keep just about all her stats at or close to -50% most of the time. I'm quite confident that I wouldn't have been able to come close to winning without that. But really, it was just bad luck. At the time I swapped Suwako
in, she immediately got hit by the single thing that could have killed her, with the boss's offense like that: a Quadruple Barrier targeted at the 4th slot, a moment before I could get a defense buff onto her, and even then she only died by about 200 hp. Nothing else would have been much of an issue for her at that point.
Ahh
I got into the habit of swapping her in, firing the nuke, then swapping her back out quickly. But yeah, bad luck like that can happen in most boss fights XD
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F30:
Only four bosses remain: Facemelt On A Plane? The Redux, SNAAAAAAAAAKE!, Time For Trouble Make It Double Redux, and U R WINRAR Beast of Centaures v2, Serpent of Chaos, Double Hibachi v2, and WINNER.
. Can generally beat any F30 random. Only gotten one 15th page item drop, tho (Rhododendron Dress. Got two!
).
I enjoyed aftergame, but I think I've hit the "level or die" wall pretty damn hard (I've honestly done minimal grinding all game, even in the aftergame. Only at this point, where I can kill F30 randoms with ease but still have four bosses to go, do I feel like I've hit a massive impasse). SNAAAAAAAKE kills too fast 2nd phase, Facemelt On A Plane? The Redux just TAKES EFFING FOREVER, and I can't reach the other two.
Current team (likely final team) (entirely spoilered just due to laziness):
Reimu/Marisa/Yuugi/Ran/Tenshi/Kaguya/Yukari/Rhino/Kanako/Yuka/Renko/Sikieiki
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You have to have hit a grindwall hard to reach the point where you can kill any trash on f30 and the point where you first explore it as well..or something earlier than that. Because there's not an effing chance you can kill any of that trash at like level 250 or whatever it was when you first reach that floor. Many of them are capable of ohkoing you before you can even move at that point.
Anyway I updated the first post, but just to re-post here in case you guys haven't noticed, be careful with NG+ files in 2.04, not only will you rlevel drop down to 1 if you re-recruit someone (which isn't a big deal since it remembers your exp), but it deleted any equipment that character was wearing, in addition to resetting all your skill levels to 1 (and no your skillpoints will not be reimbursed).
edit: I'm convinced suwako is like the F27 boss where her stats are seemingly randomized >=P. I KNOW on my first playthru, I accidently bumped into her before I was nearly done exploring F8, and I didn't level up yet at that point in the game, I had many characters lacking tp and sp, and she was still easy as hell. Nothing she did would ever hit for a whole lot.
Ran into her now, she ohko China...with destroy magic.. wut tf.. After that she iron ringed my other dudes for over 1.5k.. seriously weird.
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(http://img229.imageshack.us/img229/6562/lot.th.png) (http://img229.imageshack.us/i/lot.png/)
Well, that was a bit... anticlimatic and... unrewarding.
First run where she didn't spam Overflowing Unnatural Power and only did nonthreatening attacks. And I'm confused about her health as that felt nothing like 2 million. She just died out of nowhere.
I must have done a lot of damage in the limb phase because Remilia and Chen were the only ones really doing damage in the final part and it's not like I overleveled or anything. Djinn Storm even screwed Marisa over TWICE in the battle. ???
So yeah, that's it. I'm going to look into the post-game content but I doubt I'll do the plus-disk for pretty much the same reasons Donut did, plus grinding feels like a complete chore to me and bores me pretty fast (one of the reasons I stopped caring for Kaguya
).
Unless grinding on 21F-30F goes just as fast as on 20F, I might reconsider.
Here's my final party, so you can get a feeling for how I played the game.
Meiling
Ran
Marisa
Yukari
Reimu
Flandre
Sanae
Rinnosuke
Komachi
Remilia
Patchy
Chen
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Ghaleon: There might have been a small one? But I was able to kill
Suwako, Reisen and Rumia
once I hit the floor, and Reisen/Rumia -still- love constantly showing up for me. After a few fights with them, was able to kill Tenshis (with luck), Yuka and Rhino
and from there the floor pretty much opened up. At this point YUKAAAAAAARIIIIIIII
is the only roadblock for consistent kills. Stupid Dual Colorful Light (EDIT: HURR right she's debuff weak, debuff first and then go to town).
This being said I was probably about L270 or so when I hit F30? Maybe a bit under, Chen was around 270 probably not sure. I got lost, uh, a lot, doing F28/29.
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Sounds like you're really lucky. Those are all the easiest ones, the one with dual laser included...She seems hard at the end because of how strong she gets, but she has EXTREMELY low health at that point.
I personally had lots of luck finding flan, utusho, Seikeiki (or however you spell it), chen (she's brutal), and Yuka (yeah the one easy one I get alot, mind you she never dropped a robe for me).. Yuugi is a trheshold fight really. If she 1shots you before he rsuper phase she's probably impossible, if not, she should be easy, I can't imagine you can survive her attacks at that level though. It was somewhere around 300 for me I believe. Orin is pretty easy too. I really hate chen though, She hits like yuugi only moves like 10X faster, it's insane). Alice is a bit strange. she's probably easy if you use Seikeiki, but hard otherwise. It's basically impossible to kill the healerbot without using defense ignore attacks, and it's very difficult to damage it faster than it can heal herself with just Rumia/kaggy unless you're high level, or if you really pump up their magic (I don't since I use kaggy more for hte buff than her nukes).
Still though, I had to reach level 300ish before I didn't have multiple people get ohko'd with an opening attack from several of the enemies encountered there.
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Sounds like you're really lucky. Those are all the easiest ones, the one with dual laser included...She seems hard at the end because of how strong she gets, but she has EXTREMELY low health at that point.
I personally had lots of luck finding flan, utusho, Seikeiki (or however you spell it), chen (she's brutal), and Yuka (yeah the one easy one I get alot, mind you she never dropped a robe for me).. Yuugi is a trheshold fight really. If she 1shots you before he rsuper phase she's probably impossible, if not, she should be easy, I can't imagine you can survive her attacks at that level though. It was somewhere around 300 for me I believe. Orin is pretty easy too. I really hate chen though, She hits like yuugi only moves like 10X faster, it's insane). Alice is a bit strange. she's probably easy if you use Seikeiki, but hard otherwise. It's basically impossible to kill the healerbot without using defense ignore attacks, and it's very difficult to damage it faster than it can heal herself with just Rumia/kaggy unless you're high level, or if you really pump up their magic (I don't since I use kaggy more for hte buff than her nukes).
Still though, I had to reach level 300ish before I didn't have multiple people get ohko'd with an opening attack from several of the enemies encountered there.
Yeah, I was lucky when I started off here. Now I mainly see Flan, Yukari (I just have a horrible tendency to blast her with 2x Last Judgment + 2x Swallow's Cowrie Shell, leaving her with just enough speed to get a Djinn Storm off, and before I recover she tosses out IN Quadruple and welp there goes the neighborhood), Tenshi, and some occasional Yuka
.
As for the MT OHKO... I had Mystia
out for a long while. Fight I can't win? She's usually faster turn 1! RUN. Saved my ass a ton of times. As did World Shaking Military Rule - abusing that + [spoilers]Siki/Kaguya ITD damage[/spoiler] is probably what's helping me the most.
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Can someone tell me what teleport switches I must flip in order to get Robe of Twilight on 13F? The expanation on how the teleport devices works in touhou wikia is all convulted and perplex, and I didn't understood a shit about that.
-
Sasha,
you know how each switch is numbered? Each number has a Value. 1=1 2=2 3=4 4=8 5=16 6=32 and 7=64... If you add up the value of say... switches 1, 2 and 3 you get a value of 7 and so on and so forth.
I hope that helps :D
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Sasha, you know how each switch is numbered? Each number has a Value. 1=1 2=2 3=4 4=8 5=16 6=32 and 7=64... If you add up the value of say... switches 1, 2 and 3 you get a value of 7 and so on and so forth.
I hope that helps :D
I still didn't get it, so... what switches I must add to get the value of 64? (where Robe of Twilight is located).
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I still didn't get it, so... what switches I must add to get the value of 64? (where Robe of Twilight is located).
Just the seventh. Because the seventh=64.
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Just the seventh. Because the seventh=64.
That's impossible... when I press the switch, it reedirects me to a completely different location. T_T
-
You have to turn the other ones off first.
Anyway, how badly does flan nuke herself for you people when you use starbrow break
? Is it normal for her to nail herself for more than 1/3 of her max health?
-
Depends on the damage she does. It's relative. So against high def enemies it'll be a little less, and it'll be higher if you've been seriously boosting her ATK (which you probably should)
-
Yeah, she's slapping enemies around for 25kish at floor 8 lol. Unfortunately she pwns herself too doing it.
-
At one point she dealt around 1 million, she lost what was about 25% oh her current HP, which was maxed :D
-
Her recoil damage is (0.4) * [(0.4 * own ATK) - (0.5 * own DEF)].
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Can anyone reccomend me a level to defeat Baal Avatar at 21F and the FREAKING Bloody Papa?
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In spoilers, just because both are aftergame fights, even if plotless, Sashiromiya Sasha. Note that I'm not sure this is what should be done, just being cautious.
Baal Avatar: Uh... wait until F25. Seriously. The gimmick he has (attack doubles after each Demon Slashing Dance, this stacks, this does not wear off) is really brutal unless you get lucky or can kill him fast. Surviving the third DSD is unlikely to happen. In addition killing him is... kinda pointless until F25. Wait till then, really.
Bloody Papa: If you can beat the final, this... should tentatively be doable? 1M HP, IIRC, but great defenses, so the trick is to bring in ITD magic or high-impact damage. I recommend Tenshi/Rinnosuke/Yukari/Kaguya for this reason; Tenshi has a chance of debuffing and keeping the damage low, Rinnosuke has WSMR to bolster the team, Yukari (or Aya, or Sakuya, really) get Kaguya more turns, Kaguya smashes up Bloody Papa with Hourai Barrages. Swap in Reimu instead of the 3rdslot person for buffing/healing if you feel it better.
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In spoilers, just because both are aftergame fights, even if plotless, Sashiromiya Sasha. Note that I'm not sure this is what should be done, just being cautious.
Baal Avatar: Uh... wait until F25. Seriously. The gimmick he has (attack doubles after each Demon Slashing Dance, this stacks, this does not wear off) is really brutal unless you get lucky or can kill him fast. Surviving the third DSD is unlikely to happen. In addition killing him is... kinda pointless until F25. Wait till then, really.
Bloody Papa: If you can beat the final, this... should tentatively be doable? 1M HP, IIRC, but great defenses, so the trick is to bring in ITD magic or high-impact damage. I recommend Tenshi/Rinnosuke/Yukari/Kaguya for this reason; Tenshi has a chance of debuffing and keeping the damage low, Rinnosuke has WSMR to bolster the team, Yukari (or Aya, or Sakuya, really) get Kaguya more turns, Kaguya smashes up Bloody Papa with Hourai Barrages. Swap in Reimu instead of the 3rdslot person for buffing/healing if you feel it better.
Pretty sure that boss has high mnd and ordinary Def, so just use physical dpsers..
But for the first boss, yes, don't bother attempting it seriously until 25F or so, it's just not worth it.
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Pretty sure that boss has high mnd and ordinary Def, so just use physical dpsers..
But for the first boss, yes, don't bother attempting it seriously until 25F or so, it's just not worth it.
It should also be very susceptible to debuffs, not a 100% chance to hit like on Yukari, but only 18% chance a debuff will miss which is pretty damn good. Landing a 50% SPD debuff should massively help, especially considering it doesn't have a large amount of HP.
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It should also be very susceptible to debuffs, not a 100% chance to hit like on Yukari, but only 18% chance a debuff will miss which is pretty damn good. Landing a 50% SPD debuff should massively help, especially considering it doesn't have a large amount of HP.
Just to clarify, you're talking about the 20F boss. Not the 21F.. The 21F boss is quite difficult to debuff.
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AAAAAAAAAAAAAAH!!!!!!!!!!! WHAT HAPPENED? ALL MY CHARACTERS RETURNED TO LEVEL 0!! SOMEONE HELP ME!! T_T
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Ok, calm down please :) Are their stats fine, or have those dropped? if only level dropped, you could still beat enemies and (hopefully) level up. You could also load up your last save... assumeing your last save was before the level plumet happened
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Ok, calm down please :) Are their stats fine, or have those dropped? if only level dropped, you could still beat enemies and (hopefully) level up. You could also load up your last save... assumeing your last save was before the level plumet happened
No! No... no! Their stats are not fine at all! >.> <.< >.<!
Take a look: http://img10.imageshack.us/img10/2798/level0a.png
Anyways... I will have to load my last save... aaaaaaaaaw!!
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No! No... no! Their stats are not fine at all! >.> <.< >.<!
Take a look: http://img10.imageshack.us/img10/2798/level0a.png
Anyways... I will have to load my last save... aaaaaaaaaw!!
How on earth can you use that font without your eyes bleeding?
-
Barra, please note that the font shouldn't be involved with the actual problem... I hope...
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Barra, please note that the font shouldn't be involved with the actual problem... I hope...
I know. I'd say that font is a different problem...I personally found the default one to be unreadable at times when I first started playing (every so often it would cause me to misread a character's health and not heal them). Not so much of a problem at higher levels since it's more obvious when you go from four to 3 digits (or lower), but meh. I've seen quite a few people not knowing about the alternative font.
I think I'm going to be a little more paranoid about backing up saves periodically from now on, though. I already use the extra save slots for that to some extent. At least it should be obvious since all their characters had that happen...it would suck if it just picked a few that you hadn't been using and later on you discovered that you've had broken characters for who knows how long.
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No! No... no! Their stats are not fine at all! >.> <.< >.<!
Take a look: http://img10.imageshack.us/img10/2798/level0a.png
Anyways... I will have to load my last save... aaaaaaaaaw!!
What was the last thing you did?
Were you using any cheat tools?
Were you moving any game folders around?
Run a virus scan?
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No! No... no! Their stats are not fine at all! >.> <.< >.<!
Take a look: http://img10.imageshack.us/img10/2798/level0a.png
Anyways... I will have to load my last save... aaaaaaaaaw!!
Hey... if their affinities are 0, wouldn't that cause them to take zero damage from any elemental attack?
Of course, that's useless when you have 0 HP because you'd die even if you took 0 damage. And you have no ATK or MAG or SP to deal damage with. But still.
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I imagine 0 affinities crashes the game or something since affinities provide a division relationship to elemental spells.
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I think there may be a discrepancy between the game and the wiki. Marisa's Asteroid Belt spell says that it pierces enemy mind, but the wiki gives a damage formula that's contradictory to that claim. Considering that I read about a different character's buffs displaying an incorrect percentage in-game, I'm not sure which is wrong.
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I think there may be a discrepancy between the game and the wiki. Marisa's Asteroid Belt spell says that it pierces enemy mind, but the wiki gives a damage formula that's contradictory to that claim. Considering that I read about a different character's buffs displaying an incorrect percentage in-game, I'm not sure which is wrong.
There is a difference between "Pierces Enemy Mind" and "Ignores Enemy Mind". Piercing attacks simply have a high number in (-stat- x -number-). I think the game sometimes also refers to this as "High -stat- Influence".
When the game says "High Damage Multiplier" this refers to the number outside of the brackets that multiplies the final damage number.
Also, I think the Japanese Wiki might be incorrect and Kaguya's Dragon Necklace actually does ignore MND. I haven't tested it much though because the other attacks are usually better anyway (better multipliers and can hit weaknesses)
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I think there may be a discrepancy between the game and the wiki. Marisa's Asteroid Belt spell says that it pierces enemy mind, but the wiki gives a damage formula that's contradictory to that claim. Considering that I read about a different character's buffs displaying an incorrect percentage in-game, I'm not sure which is wrong.
It pierces MND better than her other spells (save master spark, which doesn't really count).
Also, I think the Japanese Wiki might be incorrect and Kaguya's Dragon Necklace actually does ignore MND. I haven't tested it much though because the other attacks are usually better anyway (better multipliers and can hit weaknesses)
No, use it on enemies that typically take 0 damage from non mnd-ignore attacks..They'll still take 0 damage from dragon necklace. It's completely impossible for a spell to do 0 damage if it ignores defenses.
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There is a difference between "Pierces Enemy Mind" and "Ignores Enemy Mind". Piercing attacks simply have a high number in (-stat- x -number-). I think the game sometimes also refers to this as "High -stat- Influence".
When the game says "High Damage Multiplier" this refers to the number outside of the brackets that multiplies the final damage number.
I see. The reason I asked is because a friend of mine claims that during the Alice battle, he was able to do just over 1000 damage with Asteroid Belt to Healing Light immediately after the 100% Mind buff. That claim made me skeptical since my Magic Missile didn't do anything when I tried.
So, his claim can just be chalked up to Asteroid Belt having high Magic influence?
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It pierces MND better than her other spells (save master spark, which doesn't really count).
It might do more damage, but I don't really care for the description. I prefer "high stat influence", since it doesn't matter where the big numbers come from (multiplied directly against the stat or not), so long as the damage was the same so would the end result when taking enemy defenses into consideration.
Mountain Breaker would be more apt for piercing defenses (T.DEF / 4), as would Flashing Cherry Blossoms, Minoriko's offensive spells, Scarlet Gold Sword, and Knockout In Three Steps (T.DEF * 0.4).
Ignoring defenses would be attacks like Dark Side of the Moon, Hourai Barrage, Swallow's Cowrie Shell, and Final Judgement.
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It might do more damage, but I don't really care for the description. I prefer "high stat influence", since it doesn't matter where the big numbers come from (multiplied directly against the stat or not), so long as the damage was the same so would the end result when taking enemy defenses into consideration.
Mountain Breaker would be more apt for piercing defenses (T.DEF / 4), as would Flashing Cherry Blossoms, Minoriko's offensive spells, Scarlet Gold Sword, and Knockout In Three Steps (T.DEF * 0.4).
Ignoring defenses would be attacks like Dark Side of the Moon, Hourai Barrage, Swallow's Cowrie Shell, and Final Judgement.
Those definately could be considered more literal in the sense of piercing defenses. But damage formulas are often like
X * [(Y X M) - (0.5XenemyMnd)]
so pretending you have 100 mag and the e nemy has 200 mnd.
2* ( 1 X 100) - (0.5X 200)
would give you 0 damage..
1 * (2 X 100) - (0.5X200) would do 100 damage.. Even though the second formula doesn't do more damage than the first exactly, it "pierces" the defenses better
Asteroid belt says it pierces defense because it DOES indeed pierce defenses better than magic missle and earthlight ray in the sense that it has a bigger number to combat the enemy's defense.
Earthlight ray I believe actually has beter potential damage than asteroid belt too IIRC.
-
If I am correct, the defensive portion of Asteroid Belt is sumthin like (T.MND/4) while Magic Missle has (T.MND/2). This means Asteroid Belt uses 25% of the targets MND stat while Magic Missle uses 50%.
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If I am correct, the defensive portion of Asteroid Belt is sumthin like (T.MND/4) while Magic Missle has (T.MND/2). This means Asteroid Belt uses 25% of the targets MND stat while Magic Missle uses 50%.
You are not correct :3
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I think there may be a discrepancy between the game and the wiki. Marisa's Asteroid Belt spell says that it pierces enemy mind, but the wiki gives a damage formula that's contradictory to that claim. Considering that I read about a different character's buffs displaying an incorrect percentage in-game, I'm not sure which is wrong.
There's a few discrepencies between the game's text and what actually occurs in game - and these generally aren't actually mistranslations.
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Well I did the massive Failsafe lock Puzzle today and I killed most of the Butterfly's for the 10F boss. just how powerful is the 10F enemy?
-
Not very. She didn't attack much when I fought her since she put herself in a buff repetition lock.
-
Do go in prepared though , cause she wiped me out in 1 turn on a few attempts in the past.
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Well I did the massive Failsafe lock Puzzle today and I killed most of the Butterfly's for the 10F boss. just how powerful is the 10F enemy?
Fairly hard. The main thing is that you want to try to keep her in SPD Down/PAR so she gets few turns, because unlike when you actually get her, she can do a lot of damage to you. Just keep one tank out, try to keep her debuffed (DEF/MND also helps to debuff so you do more damage) and try to tear through her quickly, if I remember right.
If you've made it to the point where the F12 boss is available, you should be strong enough to defeat her. And with her help, the F12 bosses are made notably easier.
-
Am I correct in assuming
"Violent Motherland"
is what they use whrn close to death? Reimu is at level 44 Would Ran's
buff's be useful or would it take to much investment in SKP to make her Viable?
-
Am I correct in assuming "Violent Motherland"
is what they use whrn close to death? Reimu is at level 44 Would Ran's
buff's be useful or would it take to much investment in SKP to make her Viable?
I've only done her 1st version fight once so I'm not 100% sure, but I believe her casting it does NOT neccesarily mean near-death.
-
Am I correct in assuming "Violent Motherland"
is what they use whrn close to death? Reimu is at level 44 Would Ran's
buff's be useful or would it take to much investment in SKP to make her Viable?
It's not a 'near death' thing, it just gets used every couple of turns.
Like I said, for her, you just want to beat her down fast and debuff her as much as possible so she can't do as much to you in the meantime.
-
Violent Motherland
causes alot of problems. As in it manages to OHKO my tanks even with Buffs.
Guess I need to move items around and Boost my NTR Afin
-
Violent Motherland
causes alot of problems. As in it manages to OHKO my tanks even with Buffs.
Guess I need to move items around and Boost my NTR Afin
It was a real nasty spell. I got lucky and beat her anyway somehow. but yeah, it pretty much OHKO everyone who wasn't a tank with 80% def/mnd buffs.
-
Can someone reccomend me a stat to increase as level bonus in sanae?
Besides, how come I'm dealing 0 damage to bloody papa with silent serene, if it ignores mind!?
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Can someone reccomend me a stat to increase as level bonus in sanae?
Besides, how come I'm dealing 0 damage to bloody papa with silent serene, if it ignores mind!?
Because it doesn't ignore mind (2 x ((MAG x 2.5) - (T.MND / 2))) and he has a lot of mind I think.
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Can someone reccomend me a stat to increase as level bonus in sanae?
Besides, how come I'm dealing 0 damage to bloody papa with silent serene, if it ignores mind!?
For Sanae, Magic, Speed, or Mind. Up to you. Magic for boosting her healing effectiveness and damage, Speed to help overcome her higher delay, or Mind for her survivability.
-
Remember Spoiler tags because some people actually care even though its a Touhou character appearing in A Touhou game.
So I took a look at the Trio i'll have to fight soon. I must say that Kaguya
has by far the best portrait so far.
EDIT: I go move all of my equipment and boost NTR Afin and I get through due to Suwako, Komachi
and Yuugi giving her near constant Par. She didn't get a Chance to use Violent Motherland.
Marisa got a 20K damage Master Spark in as the last attack and I kept Buffs up (Even though she only attacked like 3 times)
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Can someone tell me where is located all bloodstained guardians?
I've defeated 4 of them... "Master light wings close range", "Beast of Centaurea", The one you fight at 12F, and "Bloody Papa" Am I missing someone?
-
Is there a way to peek at the portraits for all the characters? I grind through this reaaaallllyyy slowly.
-
Is there a way to peek at the portraits for all the characters? I grind through this reaaaallllyyy slowly.
I could of sworn someone had image rips of the entire game. It had backgrounds, character portraits(the small and large ones), and enemy portraits. I'll put the Character portraits on the wiki under each character.
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Can someone tell me where is located all bloodstained guardians?
I've defeated 4 of them... "Master light wings close range", "Beast of Centaurea", The one you fight at 12F, and "Bloody Papa" Am I missing someone?
The last one back at floor 1, go back to the seal that unlocked all the other seals for the final one.
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Wiki now has the Stand portraits(Out of battle ones) for all characters. There are a couple who have more than one but I used certain ones to leave certain spoilers out.
-
Wiki now has the Stand portraits(Out of battle ones) for all characters. There are a couple who have more than one but I used certain ones to leave certain spoilers out.
Did you NSFW tag Yukari? >=P
-
Did you NSFW tag Yukari? >=P
No I did not. Should I of? :V
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Is there a way to peek at the portraits for all the characters? I grind through this reaaaallllyyy slowly.
the pooshlmer thread for touhou labyrinth has them.
Can someone reccomend me a stat to increase as level bonus in sanae?
Speed mainly, with Mind/HP as a secondary priority. The faster she is, the more buffs she can stack and the more often she can heal. Healing amount isn't as much of a concern as long as she has decent skill points put into magic.
Also, Rinnosuke
has by far the best image.
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Also, Rinnosuke
has by far the best image.
I personally like Yuyu's
-
Remi, Patchy and
Flan
have the best art
-
My avatar agrees with the above post.
-
Made it to the final battle, and decided to give it a try without any preparation.
I got to a little ways after she summoned her third extension thing. None of the other ones died, though Hourai Barrage and Royal Flare were hitting them pretty hard.
Reimu is lv 106 currently. Any strategy I should follow, and is there anything else to do on the floor right now?
Also, I was planning to use him anyways, but damn, Rinnosuke is awesome. World-Shaking Military Rule is incredible in boss fights despite the significant drawbacks, he's got excellent durability, and his damage output is good with Scarlet Gold Sword. He's also great in random battles with his last 3 skills since TP is fairly easy to boost with skill points.
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Can someone explain how the crystal puzzle system works on 24F? I'm facing a lot of barriers telling me "The crystals must be aligned to 'X' if you wish to proceed..."
-
It's similar to the crystal puzzle on 13F. You have to find the three switches (fairly easy to find, they're together around the same area if you just keep moving west from the stairs) and set them to various combinations to match the barriers. I don't know the colors of the switches offhand, but the east-most switch is +1, the upper-middle switch is +2, and the west-most switch is +4. Turn these on and off to create the number that matches the barrier you're looking to pass through.
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Made it to the final battle, and decided to give it a try without any preparation. I got to a little ways after she summoned her third extension thing. None of the other ones died, though Hourai Barrage and Royal Flare were hitting them pretty hard.
Reimu is lv 106 currently. Any strategy I should follow, and is there anything else to do on the floor right now?[/spoiler]
Strategy:Reach at least Reimu lv130. It actually doesn't take very long at all on 20F random trash, you'll level up once every random battle or so.
-
I guess I need to grind for the Trio now. I tried fighting them but I was brutally Massacred.
Which one to I take down first? and whats a recomended level?
-
I guess I need to grind for the Trio now. I tried fighting them but I was brutally Massacred.
Which one to I take down first? and whats a recomended level?
Eientei?
Recommended levels are 48-52 and you need to take down Eirin and Kaguya
at the same time. The one on the left has double the HP of the one in the center and is weak to Fire so Royal Flare is good. And don't debuff them, when they have three debuffs total the center one will use a super buff on all three of them.
And they almost always use magic attacks so bring stuff with high mind.
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Hm... Can someone explain to me how the final boss's HP works?
I heard somewhere that the limbs are all invincible until the third comes out, you just have to do damage to them so that the final boss can summon them.
-
Hm... Can someone explain to me how the final boss's HP works?
I heard somewhere that the limbs are all invincible until the third comes out, you just have to do damage to them so that the final boss can summon them.
This is true. They have like 100m+ hp until all 3 limbs are out, then everyone gets their real HP value.
-
What about the boss herself?
-
What about the boss herself?
"Everyone" includes the boss herself.
-
Guess I may need to use
Ran
Just for Buffing and Beeing able to survive Magic attacks for the Trio.
-
<badadvicetime> On occasion
Kaguya
will be a total ditz and fail to use her nuke spell after Eirin
falls. This isn't common. At all. But it's something you can hope for as a last-ditch if you kill the latter first.
In addition, Kaguya's
spell can be tanked with high SPI/high HP - that's actually how I won the fight; paraspammed the right, beat the left, tanked the nuke with China and then swapped people in to finish the job (since the other three died painfully). Don't try to survive Eirin's
nuke. It's SPI, but it's far more powerful.
Why is this bad advice? Well, I tried the fight about... uh... twenty times because I didn't feel like grinding, and finally got a lucky string of attacks off / Kaguya
took her sweet time dropping the nuke (though she did in the end) / Eirin
spammed Shadowstitch pretty much the entire fight / Reisen
never managed to get out of paralysis. </badadvicetime>
Oh, right. All three are paralysis vulnerable, but this is especially notable on the right foe. This might help if you wanna try for it. Think the left is most resistant, but the top might be instead. Unsure.
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Or go with the tactics I used and keep spamming everyone with Royal Flare, switching in someone else with a powerful attack whenever
Eirin
decides to heal Kaguya
to approximately cancel out the effect of the healing. Patchy should hardly take any damage at all from any attacks the trio can throw at you due to her excellent mind stat; just make sure to give her some items that enhance SP recovery, as she will likely run out before any of them goes down. Since Kaguya
seems to take about half as much damage as Eirin
from that attack, they should go down at approximately the same time.
-
Or go with the tactics I used and keep spamming everyone with Royal Flare, switching in someone else with a powerful attack whenever Eirin
decides to heal Kaguya
to approximately cancel out the effect of the healing. Patchy should hardly take any damage at all from any attacks the trio can throw at you due to her excellent mind stat; just make sure to give her some items that enhance SP recovery, as she will likely run out before any of them goes down. Since Kaguya
seems to take about half as much damage as Eirin
from that attack, they should go down at approximately the same time.
This. I think that I used a lineup of Tenshi, Ran
, Reimu, Patchouli for most of the fight, and they were nigh-invulneurable except against the occasional Galaxy In A Pot
, which even then wasn't very lifethreatening.
Either way, that fight, and most of the other Major Plot Boss Fights, are some of the awesomest in the game.
I'm loving the F18 boss but I still need about 10 more levels, possibly more, on everyone before I stand close to a chance, I think (...And I already levelled about 10... basically all you need to know is that my highest level was the absolute minimum recommended for the F16 boss but I still won... so I got here way underlevelled...)
-
I think I dropped Patchy around then just because I like my high-speed people, and Patchy's speed combined with the fact that she began to have issues OHKOing some mobs right around there made me just go "eh, okay". In retrospect, pulling her out for F12 boss would've been -smart-, but me? Smart? Nevar. Tactically competent, maybe, smart, no.
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Patchy might not be very good for random battles on most floors due to her abysmal speed, but I find her pretty much invaluable when it comes to bosses due to her sheer power in the magical attacks department. And her excellent mind stat makes her a really good tank against magic users, even with her low HP.
Oh well. I guess everyone has a strategy of their own.
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Pretty much, yeah. 's why I like the game. Everyone has a use, if they fit your style. Mine tended toward faster damage output and more durable characters (Marisa/
Kaguya
being my own two extremely frail people at this point, and I've even switched Marisa out though damn it took until final aftergame floor to do so).
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I'm loving the F18 boss but I still need about 10 more levels, possibly more, on everyone before I stand close to a chance, I think (...And I already levelled about 10... basically all you need to know is that my highest level was the absolute minimum recommended for the F16 boss but I still won... so I got here way underlevelled...)
I had Reimu lv 98 when I beat 18F, but I felt like I could've done it at a slightly lower level (only one death). The hardest part about the fight is the opening segment, if you can get through it with everyone alive then the rest of it is fairly easy as long as you don't slip up.
I think I dropped Patchy around then just because I like my high-speed people, and Patchy's speed combined with the fact that she began to have issues OHKOing some mobs right around there made me just go "eh, okay".
Don't expect anyone to OHKO mobs once you get to the upper floors. Actually, you may even have difficulty beating them in one round at times.
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Patchy might not be very good for random battles on most floors due to her abysmal speed, but I find her pretty much invaluable when it comes to bosses due to her sheer power in the magical attacks department. And her excellent mind stat makes her a really good tank against magic users, even with her low HP.
Oh well. I guess everyone has a strategy of their own.
Considering I use the heck out of Cirno in my main party (lolwut), I find Patchy to be pretty reliable, as Cirno is very fast and can usually slow down anything massive if she can't PAR it, so that Patchy can act pretty fast.
I had Reimu lv 98 when I beat 18F, but I felt like I could've done it at a slightly lower level (only one death). The hardest part about the fight is the opening segment, if you can get through it with everyone alive then the rest of it is fairly easy as long as you don't slip up.
Don't expect anyone to OHKO mobs once you get to the upper floors. Actually, you may even have difficulty beating them in one round at times.
I haven't been OHKO'ing mobs for a while actually. I made it to 18F at just under level 80 afterall. The only mobs I could one hit kill were Rabbits, and the elemental and ghost things - and that was only with a KO In Three Steps or Levateinn
, and even now at about level 90-maximum, I'm still pushing it.
I've been rather underlevelled for a large chunk of the game actually. I think once I hit about 95 or so for Reimu I'm going to see if I can work out a strategy to take that boss down then.
-
How much damage do I have to occur to the boss and the limbs to cause her to summon the next one? I don't want to overattack, which is really easy since she's pretty slow.
-
I still need to level up severely for the Trio battle. Makes me wish I hadn't run so much when going after switches
-
I don't want to overattack, which is really easy since she's pretty slow.
Um... wat? "Overattack" sounds kinda weird, you mean you don't want to deal more then whats needed for the next part of the fight to begin? All damage dealt to her stays on her, you just can't defeat her until all the minions are down, meaning that "overattacking" would probly be impossible.
Why do you want to avoid dealing to much dmg before the next minion comes out?
-
Oh, okay.
The damage carries over after her HP goes down? Good.
-
Actually, I'm pretty sure her HP just resets to 2mill after the 3rd limb comes out and that's it. Still, overdamaging her isn't really a huge thing to be worried about.
-
Would it be better to keep a limb out (since it's easier than her last form) and just keep damaging her there?
-
Would it be better to keep a limb out (since it's easier than her last form) and just keep damaging her there?
This is... debatable. The limbs get stronger and unlock new moves as you take the others out. The top gets Djinn Storm and such while the right gets Scourge, the left gets like, I dunno. You could try doing it like that.
-
The Left gets various High-Level spells including, but not limited to, Flowing Hellfire(Of course), Ether whatever(Multi-target MYS) and I think it gets Magicial Hellfire(Multi-target MYS dmg, can cause PSN, PAR, SIL and DTH) as well. problem with keeping one minion alive and beating up the main is that, *if* I am correct, the Main portion will NOT die until all minions are dead, unless your fighting the V.2 of the boss.
-
problem with keeping one minion alive and beating up the main is that, *if* I am correct, the Main portion will NOT die until all minions are dead, unless your fighting the V.2 of the boss.
I think that's mostly true.I think how it works is the body doesn't LOSE Hp until the limbs are dead. Even with an extremely (500+ levels) overleveled team, I couldn't brute force it. I could wail and wail, but it would never die until shortly after the last limb showed up.
On the other hand, if you can do over it's max HP in one blow, I think she might die anyway. A hax'd character one shotted the boss before it could move, and I'm ALMOST certain it was the V.1 version.
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In that sense, it's similar to 18F boss, if you can deal enough dmg before the phase change/minion summoning, for 18F and Final Boss respectivly, the boss will die.
Also, Final Boss V.2 can be killed even if a minion is alive, I found this out 1st hand.
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Apparently she can be killed before summoning the 3rd add. She just has like 50X the hp than she normally does is all. After the 3rd add is summoned, her hp fall to normal levels, regardless of how many you kill.
I found that leaving one alive doesn't really make it any easier, but if I was forced to choose one, I'd pick the left one since it just does nukes which aren't even as powerful as the boss' after all adds are dead anyway. The right one's scourge is just too iffy (it would spam it for me personally), and I didn't (at the time) have good enough status resists to make the top one a non-threat, it was pretty much a KILL IT NOW deal even when all 3 were up for me. But if you have good status resists leaving the top one is probably a good idea too. It can cast djinn storm when it's the last one BUT so can the boss anyway if you kill all 3 anyway!
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Considering I use the heck out of Cirno in my main party (lolwut), I find Patchy to be pretty reliable, as Cirno is very fast and can usually slow down anything massive if she can't PAR it, so that Patchy can act pretty fast.
You're not the only one: I always had Cirno in my main party until I got to floor 19 and everything started being resistant to debuffs and PAR, as well as most of them being slow enough that even Patchy attacked earlier than them. She's still my save file character, though.
-
Her HP DOES go back down to normal after the third limb is summoned, right? I may not be able to kill her until they're all dead but I can still inflict damage? I'm kind of confused. o.o
-
Her HP DOES go back down to normal after the third limb is summoned, right? I may not be able to kill her until they're all dead but I can still inflict damage? I'm kind of confused. o.o
You can definitely kill her before they all die. Its just she has a lot more HP then they do.
And yeah, all of them have like 100m HP before the third limb is summoned, and the HP goes to normal after that.
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I reached 27F, but there's a barrier telling me I need 6 stars in order to proceed.
So, I have 4 already... the one for beating the final boss, for collecting 100 items, for defeating the 4 bloodstained guardians, and for reuniting 32 characters. How can I get the other 2?
-
Beat all the version2 bosses, including the final.
-
Beat all the version2 bosses, including the final.
And how to get the sixth one?
-
And how to get the sixth one?
Beating ALL the ver.2 and bloodstained bosses gets you that. The Ver.2 star doesn't include the Ver.2 Final, this does.
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Oh wow this thread's still active.
So uh my eternal hiatus there was due to playing Labyrinth to death up to legitimately beating the first two F30 bonus bosses, then hacking my skillpoints to boost up everything crazy high so Flandre was dealing 10 million damage to the right-hand F30 bonus boss and probably would take 0 damage from his ice attack in the final phase if I tested after that one last bout of skillthing raising.
S'cool.
And how to get the sixth one?
I think you get one star for beating all the V2 bosses OTHER than the final, then the sixth for beating V2 of the final; unsealing V2 of the final requires you to get all the other stars, then poke around the early parts of floor 19 a bit.
If you can survive into the mid-20 floors, she probably won't be too big of a challenge.
-
I think you get one star for beating all the V2 bosses OTHER than the final, then the sixth for beating V2 of the final; unsealing V2 of the final requires you to get all the other stars, then poke around the early parts of floor 19 a bit.
If you can survive into the mid-20 floors, she probably won't be too big of a challenge.
Can you point out the locations of V2 mokou and flandre? I can't find them anywhere.
-
Flandre
is on floor 5, just below the relay point.
-
Flandre
is on floor 5, just below the relay point.
Do you remember where is mokou and alice?
-
I'm not certain, but I think they are just about where
Kaguya
was hanging around before you recruited her. Or was that two other people?
-
I'm not certain, but I think they are just about where Kaguya
was hanging around before you recruited her. Or was that two other people?
Thanks for the info, I've just defeated them with 1 master spark. (Level 410 Marisa) :V
But they are really other people, The only one missing for me right now is mokou... and I can't find her.
-
Go to the 17F relay and take the stairs up. Mokou V.2 will be right there when you enter 18F.
-
Go to the 17F relay and take the stairs up. Mokou V.2 will be right there when you enter 18F.
Thanks, are you sure beating all the V2 bosses unlocks Maribel V2?
Because I've got my fifth star already, but maribel is still V1.
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Thanks, are you sure beating all the V2 bosses unlocks Maribel V2?
Because I've got my fifth star already, but maribel is still V1.
Go to the beginning part of 20F. There'll be 4 teleporters in the middle, you have to go to the seal through each one. You'll get messages from Yukari saying they were to weaken the Final Boss.
-
Go to the beginning part of 20F. There'll be 4 teleporters in the middle, you have to go to the seal through each one. You'll get messages from Yukari saying they were to weaken the Final Boss.
How do I defeat "Great Tetragrammaton" Or whatever is his name?
-EDIT- nevermind, I just defeated him.
-
Sorry for double posting, but how can I activate the broken magic circle at 27F?
-
For that Magic circle on 27F you must find 4 magic circles on 27F. When you find them you get a scene in which someone mentions "if we give power to this, it'll work like a switch."
-
For that Magic circle on 27F you must find 4 magic circles on 27F. When you find them you get a scene in which someone mentions "if we give power to this, it'll work like a switch."
Thanks, I think I've found 3 of them already, but it seems that my 27F map is almost complete already and I can't find the fourth one. Take a look:
http://img694.imageshack.us/img694/9480/27f.png
How can I access the left most part of the map?
-
It's that path heading left thats just above the start point.
-
It's that path heading left thats just above the start point.
I hate myself now.
-
According to Donut (such a credible source), FINAL BOSS's HP doesn't go down to 2mil until you knock out the last limb, is this true? It seems to contradict what I was told.
-
It's HP will jump UP to 2mil when it uses it's buff for the 1st time. I think the boss is also un-killable until the minions are all dead.
-
Could I take her HP down to one and then kill the last limb and then instant master spark or something, then? >_>
-
Sadly, no. I even tried this just now and it failed. It seems that the Final Boss has a Minimum HP for when a minion is still alive, and that her HP can not drop below that Minimum until the minions die.
-
You can definitely kill the final boss before killing all it's limbs. I've done it, yes, on the original version.
I'm not sure if the HP resets to 2mill after killing all limbs, although I haven't tested this, and it shouldn't be hard to test.
-
Good and evil's apocalypse~
I love marisa.
-
That was... really easy.
Her final form only had like 400k HP. :| She got to attack like four times before I killed her.
-
Anyone know if anyone's ripped the soundtrack for this game?
-
Anyone know if anyone's ripped the soundtrack for this game?
Yes. A Google search led me to a thread about the game on Pooshlmer which had a link to the soundtrack in it.
-
Anyone know if anyone's ripped the soundtrack for this game?
I found plenty of the games songs on Youtube. Please beware though, the video desciptions say when the song plays, this can spoil some bosses for people who haven't gotten far enough yet.
-
Anyone know if anyone's ripped the soundtrack for this game?
Image and soundtrack rips are on Poosh. As I've mentioned many times before...
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Well, that was rather anticlimactic. After getting the final boss down to around 500k a couple of times, I got to the final phase again and it uses
Overflowing Unnatural Power
. Luckily, I hit her with Sword of Rapture
right after and it removes all of the buffs except Speed, and then...the boss never used it again, which lead to a pretty easy victory since the boss spammed it pretty much every other fight. Reimu was lv 136, though if the battle had gone that well the first time I probably would've been able to do it at a much lower level. So now I'm onto the star quest. Anyone have the list of item codes handy?
Out of curiosity, are there any other spells that can remove a boss's buffs without debuffing the boss?
Also, I laughed at how Orin v2 still freezes the game when she targets an empty slot
.
-
Out of curiosity, are there any other spells that can remove a boss's buffs without debuffing the boss?
Nope. That's the only skill in the game that can do that, if I'm right. By comparison, there's three skills that can wipe out your own debuffs - Rumia's demarcation removes all debuffs, Suika can remove all debuffs, but also neutralizes buffs too
, and Mystia can turn debuffs on an ally into positive buffs along with curing ailments, but only on one person at a time
-
Anyone have the list of item codes handy?
I posted the cheat engine plus a cheat table with all the items included in the last few pages of the Discussion 2 thread. If you can't find it, let me know and I'll repost it
I'm thinking about adding an enemy list to the Wiki, so I'm wondering if I can scan HP values of the enemies(And EXP as well since I haven't managed to get that working still for some reason).
-
It's worth nothing that much of that info is also on the Japanese wiki. I used the Google Translate version to guide a lot of my post-game stuff, along with advice from Trance. It takes a little work to decipher, though.
-
I posted the cheat engine plus a cheat table with all the items included in the last few pages of the Discussion 2 thread. If you can't find it, let me know and I'll repost it
Found it, much appreciated. Though for some reason, even after hacking the last few items that I was missing into my inventory, it's still not showing the "100 items obtained" star at the save screen. Anyone know why?
Also, the "hp value of current enemy on the screen" is a constant address, you can save it once and it'll change to match the hp of the next enemy you encounter. I'd assume that there's also an address of "second enemy", "third enemy", etc.
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Found it, much appreciated. Though for some reason, even after hacking the last few items that I was missing into my inventory, it's still not showing the "100 items obtained" star at the save screen. Anyone know why?
Beat the final boss again to get credit for it.
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Beat the final boss again to get credit for it.
Yep, it's listed now. Thanks very much.
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Who drops "Gurthang"? Greater Majin, or Black Knight?
I need more of those.
-EDIT- nevermind, It's Black Knight... whoa, that item is really rare, but the "360%+ ATK" bonus makes it worthwhile.
-
Is it just me or is
Kanako
incredibly useful? She has the first real cold and wind nukes in the game.
-
Is it just me or is Kanako
incredibly useful? She has the first real cold and wind nukes in the game.
Unfortunately, she doesn't have the HP or level-up rate for her defensive abilities to actually function like they look like they would (although they are pretty nice anyway, but she still can't take a big hit), and others can deal more damage against something not weak to CLD/WND.
Against the many Plus-Disk bosses with CLD weaknesses she is pretty good for a fairly durable attacker, not bad at all. She isn't awesome, but she is certainly a good character.
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Hahahahahahahaha... look at how many skill pts I have!!! (Grinding at 28F only) :V
http://img176.imageshack.us/img176/2644/100million.png
Eye'm the strongest!
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3 bloody seals down.
I killed Centurea
before he could lay a hit on me and Hibachi
before he could hit me for his third time. MYSTIA <3
Bloody Papa
is giving me some trouble, though. Is he the last one that I can fight?
-
3 bloody seals down.
I killed Centurea
before he could lay a hit on me and Hibachi
before he could hit me for his third time. MYSTIA <3
Bloody Papa
is giving me some trouble, though. Is he the last one that I can fight?
No, you will fight Hibachi #1 & Hibachi #2 at 1F after clearing 4 bloody seals. I suggest grinding on 22F for bloody papa.
-
For the Bloody Seal Boss
Bloody Papa, you should use spells that target the foes DEF rather then MND. Even a full-power Spark will deal 0 to him.
I am back on 30F and I am owning the n00bs their >:D
-
Damn, Armads is taking forever to get. Will trade one of my 5 scourges for it. >_> <_<
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I am back on 30F and I am owning the n00bs their >:D
what level are you?
-
The me owning was sadly only for certain foes it seems, I can't beat certain V.3s :V My stats are mostly thanks you equips and skill levels, but I am just under Reimu Lv 300 right now.
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Beat all V2s and Bloody Papa. <3
I love exploiting the Active Gauge buffs and Croaking Frog for great profit. <3
I beat Yukari V2 and Bloody Papa before they could fire off more than one attack.
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The me owning was sadly only for certain foes it seems, I can't beat certain V.3s :V My stats are mostly thanks you equips and skill levels, but I am just under Reimu Lv 300 right now.
Oh, I beated Reisen and Meiling V3 easily... But I would like to OHKO them with my flandre to hasten up the grinding time. I have no idea how much ATK I need for this, though.
@ NakoEiki:
Wow, you beated yukari V2 this easiliy? I guess you grind faster than me, then. Anyway, I made a video of me beating Rinnosuke V2 with 1 master spark. :V (Still need to upload)
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More like I broke the game. :V (kind of)
If I ever actually let her get a Djinn Storm off I was totally fucked.
EDIT: In the middle of the boss rush. This is making me nervous. D:
Just beat Yukari
I'm really nervous about Rinnosuke
Oh, nevermind, that was pretty easy. I'm on Cosmic
now.
Dammit he killed Yuugi. Dx
Final boss time. D:
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More like I broke the game. :V (kind of)
If I ever actually let her get a Djinn Storm off I was totally fucked.
EDIT: In the middle of the boss rush. This is making me nervous. D:
Just beat Yukari
I'm really nervous about Rinnosuke
Are you making boss rush V2 already? Wow... I'm overleveled and didn't tried it yet. But if yukari launches a djinn storm onto you, you just have to wait until you get to one of those bosses that guarded the sigils from 20F (That bird whose attacks you only with wind of souls, wind of miasma, flame wind, etc...) because, his MAG is very low, and will probably do 0 Damage to characters with high mind. You can take the opportunity to use focus during the entire battle and recover the SP lost from djinn storm, without losing TP. :V
-EDIT- aaaaaaw... cosmic sucks with his absurd MAG and ether flare. >.<
-
Don't feel ashamed of cheating :V
-
Beat Boss Rush on my first try.
EDIT: Hibachi I and II
is a painful fight. D:
-
Beat Boss Rush on my first try.
EDIT: Hibachi I and II
is a painful fight. D:
Uhum, one has high DEF and the other one has high MIND. I still find it nonsensical for hibachi 1 to return after being defeated.
-
I always end up killing II before I, and then proceed to be Dual Funeral Washing Machine'd.
-
I always end up killing II before I, and then proceed to be Dual Funeral Washing Machine'd.
I did almost all the damage I needed for this boss with Kaguya's Hourai Barrage
(Ignores MND so it hurts both), then once one died, I finished off the other with CHEEEEEEEEN/Flandre
before it attacked.
-
Okay, made it to floor 25. I still haven't beaten a single boss though. D: I can almost beat the Celestial thing but it just has too much HP. :S
-
A lot of the Plus Disk bosses are worth waiting on for a few floors; the
Bloody Seal V2
bosses are bitchier than they're worth at first, and Utsuho
is apparently REALLY hard for floor 21, or even the f25(?) that she's effectively available to fight; I waited on both until I was at like F29, so :S
-
A lot of the Plus Disk bosses are worth waiting on for a few floors; the Bloody Seal V2
bosses are bitchier than they're worth at first, and Utsuho
is apparently REALLY hard for floor 21, or even the f25(?) that she's effectively available to fight; I waited on both until I was at like F29, so :S
You said your flandre is deliberating 10 million damage, right? How much ATK she has, and what level she is?
-
I didn't bring out Flandre until the very last second, and she wasn't doing 10 million reliably until well after I hacked my skillpoints so that I could get her level 1000+ atk multiplier.
Right now, she's... level 501, with 1,320,224 reported attack (including +1020% from equipment, so only 60% less than 3 Gurthangs or whatever).
When I was trying to legitimately beat the left/right-hand bosses... I think she was doing 8mil unbuffed, if that? Or maybe less. I think I remember Master Spark doing some 6-8mil when his defenses were down...
Of course, it doesn't help that there's no thousands marker or anything in the damage numbers, so it's difficult to tell just how much ouch you're putting out. (=^w^)
-
Speaking of hacking...
I decided to try hacking the HP values of the 30F bosses. I found all of them, but..well read the spoilers to find out. :V (When can we stop using them? x_x)
Ok, I found WINNER's first quite easily, changed it to 1, and killed him in just a few turns(Few cause I needed to try finding the damn value first). After finding Serpent of Chaos' and both Hibachi's, I returned to Akyu, then went back, and found something out. The address for all the bosses changed!
The programmers were clever, yes they were. :V I found them again much more easily though but if I want to find the values again I gotta redo the scanning. x.x
-
Enemy debuffs are fixed and vary according to your system. Don't bother with finding new addresses for HP all the time.
-
I didn't bring out Flandre until the very last second, and she wasn't doing 10 million reliably until well after I hacked my skillpoints so that I could get her level 1000+ atk multiplier.
Right now, she's... level 501, with 1,320,224 reported attack (including +1020% from equipment, so only 60% less than 3 Gurthangs or whatever).
When I was trying to legitimately beat the left/right-hand bosses... I think she was doing 8mil unbuffed, if that? Or maybe less. I think I remember Master Spark doing some 6-8mil when his defenses were down...
Of course, it doesn't help that there's no thousands marker or anything in the damage numbers, so it's difficult to tell just how much ouch you're putting out. (=^w^)
Whenever I deal big numbers, I always click outside of the game window, since I play windowed. Clicking outside the window pauses the game, or rather, makes it stop what it's doing, except for music, and just sits like that until you click back in the game window.
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I didn't bring out Flandre until the very last second, and she wasn't doing 10 million reliably until well after I hacked my skillpoints so that I could get her level 1000+ atk multiplier.
Right now, she's... level 501, with 1,320,224 reported attack (including +1020% from equipment, so only 60% less than 3 Gurthangs or whatever).
When I was trying to legitimately beat the left/right-hand bosses... I think she was doing 8mil unbuffed, if that? Or maybe less. I think I remember Master Spark doing some 6-8mil when his defenses were down...
Of course, it doesn't help that there's no thousands marker or anything in the damage numbers, so it's difficult to tell just how much ouch you're putting out. (=^w^)
Wow... my flandre is level 551 and she has only 646800 ATK (with 3 gurthangs). I suppose you invested almost all your skill pts so far in her ATK, then.
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Wow... my flandre is level 551 and she has only 646800 ATK (with 3 gurthangs). I suppose you invested almost all your skill pts so far in her ATK, then.
hacked my skillpoints so that I could get her level 1000+ atk multiplier.
:V
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Anyone knows a good strategy to beat
Serpent of chaos
?
I don't know why, but it seems that his MIND and DEF grows stronger when he is in a close call. And my attacks cannot damage him at all.
-
Anyone knows a good strategy to beat Serpent of chaos
?
I don't know why, but it seems that his MIND and DEF grows stronger when he is in a close call. And my attacks cannot damage him at all.
From what I know about him, he has 3 phases. He also works differently on even and odd turns; his MND and DEF stats switch, and I think he uses different moves.
Unfortunately, that's about all I know. I kinda stalled out at 26F, but I'll come back to the game sometime. I hear a recommended level is 400+.
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Heres something you can do for great stats. Equip everyone with 3 Machine God Lucifer. Get them through Cheat Engine, since they are a, roughly, 5% drop from a powerful foe thats 1 per battle. The foe?
Serpent of Chaos
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Heres something you can do for great stats. Equip everyone with 3 Machine God Lucifer. Get them through Cheat Engine, since they are a, roughly, 5% drop from a powerful foe thats 1 per battle. The foe? Serpent of Chaos
How can I get a cheat engine for this game?
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I did a google search for Cheat Engine, and bingo, 1st thing on the list was a program with a perfect name for what it does. The name? Cheat Engine 8)
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I haven't checked this thread in a while, so can anyone tell me if Trance ever finished beating up the final boss 100 times? If so, did anything special happen?
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I haven't checked this thread in a while, so can anyone tell me if Trance ever finished beating up the final boss 100 times? If so, did anything special happen?
Trance was at 97 times... a month or two ago, I think. I'm sure he finished.
Would be pretty cool if someone recorded a fight so far in, the numbers must have been insane. I wonder if character HP values were running into eachother?
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This game is sad without
Satori
and Koishi
-
This game is sad without Satori
and Koishi
Honestly, the game is so close to having every Windows touhou character up to and including SA, why didn't they just add the last several. derp.
-
Minoriko made the appearance for herself and Shizuha, so
Orin and Utsuho
are there for certain characters too.
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Minoriko made the appearance for herself and Shizuha, so Orin and Utsuho
are there for certain characters too.
Shizuha isn't a stage boss. I was referring to stage bosses only >=P. I mean I can understand and wouldn't mind the mid-boss only characters to show up either, but the game doesn't feature a single one. So your example doesn't really prove much IMO. No kisume, no eosd stage 2 fairy, no lily white, no tewi (not that we ca *shot*), >=P.
It surprises me that Orin
is so low on the popularity thing. Yet she is the only SA character to make the game prior to the +disk. I know the game doesn't represent all of Touhou's fanbase. But well. Seems like people seem to like orin from what I see, and I mean, most of any fanbase related to something Japanese seems to instantly like characters with non-human ears
.
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True Final Boss has a bit under 2 Billion HP :o :o when you fight it for the 100th time... apperently...
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Shizuha isn't a stage boss. I was referring to stage bosses only >=P. I mean I can understand and wouldn't mind the mid-boss only characters to show up either, but the game doesn't feature a single one. So your example doesn't really prove much IMO. No kisume, no eosd stage 2 fairy, no lily white, no tewi (not that we ca *shot*), >=P.
Where's dem Prismrivers huh? And Parsee
:D
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True Final Boss has a bit under 2 Billion HP :o :o when you fight it for the 100th time... apperently...
Really? I'd expect more. Something along the lines of 80millionishX100..
Quote from: Inaba Tewi on Today at 07:41:00 pm
Where's dem Prismrivers huh? :D
I ddin't say SA was the only TH with missing bosses, I just hinted how it had the most. As for the prismrivers, I can understand them not being in personally though. I mean how would you design them? It's really hard to give them definitive stats and spells as individuals, and it'd just be wrong to slap all 3 of them into 1 character.
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Ok, maybe just under 20 Billion, but I remember the bigest digits being sumthing like a 173, and a string of numbers after that, minimum around 10 digits(Billion) but possibly more... :ohdear:
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I ddin't say SA was the only TH with missing bosses, I just hinted how it had the most. As for the prismrivers, I can understand them not being in personally though. I mean how would you design them? It's really hard to give them definitive stats and spells as individuals, and it'd just be wrong to slap all 3 of them into 1 character.
I actually thought of a way, and it'd make them somewhat unique. Make them 3 separate characters with 3-4 spell cards each. 1 would be their own solo attack, 2nd can be a combo attack(Lunasa-Merlin, Lunasa-Lyrica, and Lyrica-Merlin), 3rd can be another combo attack(If Lunasa-Merlin is the 2nd one, Lunasa-Lyrica is the 3rd one). The last one is a triple combo. Of course to be able to use them, they have to be out on the frontlines.
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The encounters on 30F seem... off. At this very moment I have encountered:
3 Flandre's, 3 Youmu's, 1 Yuyuko, 1 Cirno, 1 Tenshi, 2 Trio's. This morning I also found 3 Flandre's and 4 Youmu's.
Are those encounters really random?
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The encounters on 30F seem... off. At this very moment I have encountered: 3 Flandre's, 3 Youmu's, 1 Yuyuko, 1 Cirno, 1 Tenshi, 2 Trio's. This morning I also found 3 Flandre's and 4 Youmu's.
Are those encounters really random?
Yeah I get some much more often than others myself. Be grateful you don't get chen alot, she's insane.
I actually thought of a way, and it'd make them somewhat unique. Make them 3 separate characters with 3-4 spell cards each. 1 would be their own solo attack, 2nd can be a combo attack(Lunasa-Merlin, Lunasa-Lyrica, and Lyrica-Merlin), 3rd can be another combo attack(If Lunasa-Merlin is the 2nd one, Lunasa-Lyrica is the 3rd one). The last one is a triple combo. Of course to be able to use them, they have to be out on the frontlines.
quite a few problems with that.
First, you pretty much force the player into gimping themselves by taking such characters without forcing them to take all of them pretty much. Or else they'll have as poor a spell selection as Remi, who makes up for it by her great stats and great buff. If they have great stats and great buffs, then their combo attacks will either be op, or redundant to their solo moves.
I could go on but thats the important one. The game as a whole isn't really made for team-based characters, so you can't just slap one in with it being unbalanced. They'd work out ifne like that if there were other similar teamwork type deals, but the closest thing you got is Yukari's shikigami
spell, which itself is a waste of 100 sp unless you are using all 3 characters, in which case it's pretty much meh. But she has 4 other spells to go with it, along with amazing stats.
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quite a few problems with that.
First, you pretty much force the player into gimping themselves by taking such characters without forcing them to take all of them pretty much. Or else they'll have as poor a spell selection as Remi, who makes up for it by her great stats and great buff. If they have great stats and great buffs, then their combo attacks will either be op, or redundant to their solo moves.
I could go on but thats the important one. The game as a whole isn't really made for team-based characters, so you can't just slap one in with it being unbalanced. They'd work out ifne like that if there were other similar teamwork type deals, but the closest thing you got is Yukari's shikigami
spell, which itself is a waste of 100 sp unless you are using all 3 characters, in which case it's pretty much meh. But she has 4 other spells to go with it, along with amazing stats.
How about having something a bit similar like Yukari's
spell? Something like..well I'm gonna just be a bit random with this, but hopefully you understand.
Merlin is a Debuff type character, and Lyrica is an Attack type character. Their dual attack can be used separately. For Lyrica, its an attack, and for Merlin, its a debuff. If both are in the party when used, both of their Active Gauge's are reduced down to a certain point(30% after use, for example), regardless of how high the Gauge is filled(If lower than 30%, then no change is made), and the SP cost is used from both of them. If both are in the active party at the time it is used, the Spell is both an Attack and Debuff type spell. Lunasa would be a Tank type(possibly) with the ability to buff. The Triple Team attack would be similar to a dual attack only reducing the gauge to 0%, dealing damage to the enemy and debuffing them, and also buffing your party. If Merlin uses alone, its mainly a debuff(A bit of a heavy one), if Lyrica its mainly an attack, and if Lunasa uses it alone its just a buff. For all dual-spells and the trio one, the attack/buff/debuff rates are increased.
This isn't to say their Solo skill would mainly be Attack-Buff-Debuff only either. Could be a mixture of both like other skills are. If you think about it though, the above makes it possible for the characters to be used both separately and as a team.
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Ah, all this whining about "There's too many characters missing"...
...maybe I'll go design an RPG with everyone... :3
...Also you forgot that Yuugi is from SA. And she made it in too. But yeah, I'm not surprised at a slight leaning towards the earlier windows games characters - I've only run into one fangame that didn't do this (Touhou Pocket Wars only has Sakuya from EoSD, at least in the version I'm playing, and Sakuya did come back for 7-9, so...)
-
...maybe I'll go design an RPG with everyone... :3
how about I design it, you can make it =).
seriously, I'd love to take a shot at making touhou labyrinth even better.
I always forget yuugi for some reason, derp.
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how about I design it, you can make it =).
seriously, I'd love to take a shot at making touhou labyrinth even better.
I always forget yuugi for some reason, derp.
I can help design pl0x?
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>_> Well, I might have started working on this like two whole Labyrinth of Touhou topics ago when the frustration of "There's no x!" started getting to me.
Not that I'm designing it to be a straight up clone of Labyrinth, but... I've got some fun stuff I can do beyond that, and in many ways it is similar to Labyrinth (It's a single-dungeon crawler, though set up fairly differently from Labyrinth; party is large, but it's in the sense that it'll be up to six characters in the active party at once - of a playable cast of roughly 90...)
...But if people want to work with me on this kind of thing (And are preferrably used to RPG Maker in at least some respect) I'd love that.
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So you 2, and possibly Axel, are considering a Touhou fangame that has everyone? I'll toss in my 2-cents and say that I am definately in agreement with this idea. But 1 question, does "everyone" mean everyone in the Windows games, or does it mean everyone in Windows and PC-98?
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So you 2, and possibly Axel, are considering a Touhou fangame that has everyone? I'll toss in my 2-cents and say that I am definately in agreement with this idea. But 1 question, does "everyone" mean everyone in the Windows games, or does it mean everyone in Windows and PC-98?
The way mine is designed... yeah, it means the PC-98 cast too. A few of the characters are boss-only though or NPCs (Mostly HRtP cast though). Even some of the novel/manga characters are present too, though not necessarily in a playable situation, but rather some form of support role (Akyu saving your game, etc.)
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>_> Well, I might have started working on this like two whole Labyrinth of Touhou topics ago when the frustration of "There's no x!" started getting to me.
Not that I'm designing it to be a straight up clone of Labyrinth, but... I've got some fun stuff I can do beyond that, and in many ways it is similar to Labyrinth (It's a single-dungeon crawler, though set up fairly differently from Labyrinth; party is large, but it's in the sense that it'll be up to six characters in the active party at once - of a playable cast of roughly 90...)
...But if people want to work with me on this kind of thing (And are preferrably used to RPG Maker in at least some respect) I'd love that.
Not sure why people lamenting the lack of a character gets at you. It's not a game-breaking issue, I just find it unfortunate that some characters are missing when the game has so many as is. Hardly breaks the game though.
As for design, I'm not being serious. I'd love to design it, but I hardly have the time or motivation to actually make what I design yet, so I really woudln't be much help.
6 character parties is cool though. If you ever do make this game. For the love of god have difficulty settings please. Even if it's just a couple of sliders that are multipliers to enemy hp/damage/etc. There are *WAY* too many rpgs out there that aren't as fun as they could be because their difficulty isn't right.
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Not sure why people lamenting the lack of a character gets at you. It's not a game-breaking issue, I just find it unfortunate that some characters are missing when the game has so many as is. Hardly breaks the game though.
As for design, I'm not being serious. I'd love to design it, but I hardly have the time or motivation to actually make what I design yet, so I really woudln't be much help.
6 character parties is cool though. If you ever do make this game. For the love of god have difficulty settings please. Even if it's just a couple of sliders that are multipliers to enemy hp/damage/etc. There are *WAY* too many rpgs out there that aren't as fun as they could be because their difficulty isn't right.
Duly noted, and it will be done 8D
But yeah. It didn't bother me too much, until I started considering "Okay, let's just suppose I could set things up however I wanted. ...Well, if I put in this character, they could do something like this, and this character could do this..." and I started to come up with a bunch of neat mechanics and stuff that let me actually do unusual things, so I ran with it 8D
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On topic of the Difficulty, we could go with the 4 Touhou Difficulties, and add Extra and Phantasm as 5th and 6th Difficulties... and maybe even more >:D
You could also make it so you could upgrade Spell Cards, to some extent. So things like how a thLabyrinth char might have say... "1.5((ATK x 2) - (T.DEF/2))" and if you had that as a formula, it could be boosted in power, eventually reaching sumthin like "2((ATK x3) - (T.DEF/3)" or sumthin. This idea is mainly cause some thLabyrinth chars are good but their spells are poor. Remi's Spear being an example, she has very good ATK, but Spear has a poor formula compared to, say, Meiling's Mountain Breaker, and both mentioned moves have the same/similar delay.
As is right now, I won't be able to help work on the game, but I could definatly chime in with ideas, heck I got another one, could Mima be a playable, rather then Boss/NPC? :)
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You know what? I'm gonna throw a topic about this over in Rika's Garage, before we spam the heck out of this topic XD I'll edit a topic link in once I set it up XD
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Game design is such a cool idea. I wish it was a reliable career choice. Alas it's nearly impossible to be taken seriously as a game designer these days without experience on your resume.
But anyway it's such a beautiful concept to me. I mean alot of game designers (wannabes mostly, but some actual designers too) have little interest aside from the art, level design, story, etc. Very few have interest in the technical side of things. But that's frankly what makes it so attractive IMO.
For example, I want rpgs to have difficulty sliders. Imagine making it so that you increased the difficulty simply by doubling the hp of every enemy and boss. You need to consider though that doing so will not double the difficulty neccesarily. In most cases it will be less than doubly difficult, and in some cases, it will be far more than double. For example, bosses with a "I'm at 20% or less health now, you must kill me before my next move or I insta-gib your entire party!" feature, would suddenly enter the realm of impossible with a doubling of hp assuming your level is otherwise appropriate. Meanwhile you would hardly notice the difference on bosses like china.
-
Similarly, difficulty will need to affect all the stats, not just HP, ATK and MAG. But yeah, Rika's Garage would be better to have a topic about a new touhou fangame.
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Here we go: Wish Under Celestial Star (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php?topic=5256.0)
After all the wonderful technical little things that this game taught me about game design I'm very curious to get input and actually apply the things I've learned over the years towards creating a proper game.
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For example, I want rpgs to have difficulty sliders. Imagine making it so that you increased the difficulty simply by doubling the hp of every enemy and boss.
To be honest, that's one of the things I hate about some games with multiple difficulties. I understand trying to make the game difficult, but keep the same AI and just doubling certain stats doesn't make the game that much harder. Changing AI patterns and movesets however would be a better idea, one reason why I like the Touhou games. Higher difficulties usually mean a change to their original attacks that make it harder, or even having a new spellcard to face. Granted on an RPG it would be a bit different, giving them a new set of moves specifically towards higher difficulties wouldn't be bad, but actually give the difficulty meaning.
Just me 2 cents really :x As for the game, I'd actually help but I have no experience with RPG Maker.
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'Kay. So I can't seem to get my sound card to cooperate with me in doing a Let's Play. I can either get Game audio, mic audio, but not both. So until I get this figured out I'll be doing text LP's, commentary annotated on top of the vid.
I plan on restarting this very soon. Now let's see if I'm committed enough to do this regularly.
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I've had this problem before. You'll have to record the video first and do audio commentary afterwards.
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I've had this problem before. You'll have to record the video first and do audio commentary afterwards.
I just don't like that idea. If I'm going to commentate by voice, I'd like it to be live. Doing it after by text has a similar problem, but would be easier for me to pull off.
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I know of a site that lets you stream live and talk while streaming. It's www.justin.tv (http://www.justin.tv), but shouldn't this problem be in the Tech help section?
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I know of a site that lets you stream live and talk while streaming. It's www.justin.tv (http://www.justin.tv), but shouldn't this problem be in the Tech help section?
Not really, because it's not a problem with a Touhou game, but rather my own incompetence. Labyrinth will be the first game of hopefully many to be LP'd. On top of that, it's not even a problem. I have a temporary solution worked out and if I so wanted, could begin right this very second.
As for Justin.tv, that would all depend on if one could save each live session to later be linked to. I never have used the site before, so I'm clueless there.
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Not really, because it's not a problem with a Touhou game, but rather my own incompetence. Labyrinth will be the first game of hopefully many to be LP'd. On top of that, it's not even a problem. I have a temporary solution worked out and if I so wanted, could begin right this very second.
What, your sound card is the problem or the recording app you're trying to use is being uncooperative?
I don't know what your temporary solution is, but I would use Fraps for video + game sound and another program of your choice for voice, then combine them at the editing stage so you have control over the volume and don't have one being excessively louder than the other. Alternatively you could skip combining them and mux the two audio files separately into the container after you've encoded them, but that means you could only hear one at a time.
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What, your sound card is the problem or the recording app you're trying to use is being uncooperative?
I don't know what your temporary solution is, but I would use Fraps for video + game sound and another program of your choice for voice, then combine them at the editing stage so you have control over the volume and don't have one being excessively louder than the other. Alternatively you could skip combining them and mux the two audio files separately into the container after you've encoded them, but that means you could only hear one at a time.
Sound card. That was the original plan, Snagit for vid + game sound while using Audacity for voice. However, the sound card for some reason doesn't like from only one output source, so Audacity (and other programs I'm sure) will pick up both mic and the stereo mix while greying out the my dropdown to select only one of them. Game sound drowns voice out completely, so that can't work.
The solution I had was text commentary in annotations until I figure this stuff out, whatever the problem may be. (I THINK the drivers are up to date. I updated them yesterday manually since auto update wasn't doing anything.)
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To be honest, that's one of the things I hate about some games with multiple difficulties. I understand trying to make the game difficult, but keep the same AI and just doubling certain stats doesn't make the game that much harder. Changing AI patterns and movesets however would be a better idea, one reason why I like the Touhou games. Higher difficulties usually mean a change to their original attacks that make it harder, or even having a new spellcard to face. Granted on an RPG it would be a bit different, giving them a new set of moves specifically towards higher difficulties wouldn't be bad, but actually give the difficulty meaning.
Just me 2 cents really :x As for the game, I'd actually help but I have no experience with RPG Maker.
I realize that smarter ai is often the most rewarding way to increase difficulty, but that is often the most difficult and time consuming. It probably be easier in an rpg, but you should consider a smart ai in an rpg would just plain suck. How long would it take for you to throw your monitor out the window if enemies always picked on your squishies, or if they just spammed their best moves, etc.
Regardless of stats being increased being a "cheap" way to increase difficulty options, it's still an option. Nobody forces you to do it, and the amount of effort to actually program that into a game is so trivial it's almost stupid not to do it IMO.
If you have the time to make multiple ai for difficulties, you might as well have the option to change stats too.
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Ah, you're planning on LPing this game? Cool bro, story 8D
I'd still prefer some form of audio commentary, even if you have to do it in post. But lots of annotations works for a bit.
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I realize that smarter ai is often the most rewarding way to increase difficulty, but that is often the most difficult and time consuming. It probably be easier in an rpg, but you should consider a smart ai in an rpg would just plain suck. How long would it take for you to throw your monitor out the window if enemies always picked on your squishies, or if they just spammed their best moves, etc.
Regardless of stats being increased being a "cheap" way to increase difficulty options, it's still an option. Nobody forces you to do it, and the amount of effort to actually program that into a game is so trivial it's almost stupid not to do it IMO.
If you have the time to make multiple ai for difficulties, you might as well have the option to change stats too.
The main reason why I hate it is cause it doesn't really provide much of a difficulty change. Its like going from Easy to Normal, its a bit noticeable but still not that hard. Main reason why I suggested new attacks and such to better the AI is so it actually does provide some form of a harder difficulty. Of course when I say this I don't mean something like the boss will use their ultimate attack consecutively early on or anything, I mean like an attack that inflicts multiple status effects/debuffs, buff himself, or one of their original attacks with some form of added effect. Yeah it might take some trial and error, but didn't we have to do that on our first time playing through games to find the strategy that worked?
Granted sometimes this won't always be effective and does take more time, its worth it really. Stat increases are nice but..then its basically just forcing you to grind so you can do what you did the other times you fought against the boss. Tales of the Abyss suffered with this, and those who did the very first battle in the game on Unknown mode would know that Stat increases aren't fun.
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Assuming the game uses a RNG as part of the gameplay, would adjusting the boundaries of the RNG be a valid difficulty setting? For example: In Easy mode, the RNG range for damage is 3d8 - 3. For Hard, make that 4d6 + 6.
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The main reason why I hate it is cause it doesn't really provide much of a difficulty change. Its like going from Easy to Normal, its a bit noticeable but still not that hard. Main reason why I suggested new attacks and such to better the AI is so it actually does provide some form of a harder difficulty. Of course when I say this I don't mean something like the boss will use their ultimate attack consecutively early on or anything, I mean like an attack that inflicts multiple status effects/debuffs, buff himself, or one of their original attacks with some form of added effect. Yeah it might take some trial and error, but didn't we have to do that on our first time playing through games to find the strategy that worked?
While that can be done, it IMO is questionably not worth doing over simply adding more optional bosses to the game as a whole, with the same said "new tactics" as your hard mode enemies. Thereby, increasing the size and content of the game on any difficulty setting..
Granted sometimes this won't always be effective and does take more time, its worth it really. Stat increases are nice but..then its basically just forcing you to grind so you can do what you did the other times you fought against the boss. Tales of the Abyss suffered with this, and those who did the very first battle in the game on Unknown mode would know that Stat increases aren't fun.
I can't speak for tales of abyss because I never played it. But that would be an example of a bad situation or example. This is why I mentioned doubling hp and not damage. Doubling your enemy's damage obviously would require the player to just plain do more grinding, because chances are it would make many enemy attacks that are unavoidable 1shot material for a long time, which doesn't increase difficulty so much as increase the player's need to level. However, with the exception of "I'm at 20% health nuke me down in 5 seconds or I cast ****CATAPOCALYPSEE!!!!111one****, increasing hp by significant amounts increases boss difficulty without actually increasing the need for a player to grind more. Of course, there ARE some rpgs where the enemy damage output is gimp by nature, and probably COULD be buffed safely without forcing the player to level more. Anyway, giving the player the option to manipulate all of these, while requiring little more code than global constants in front of each stat would go a long way given the little effort required.
Have you played valkarie profile 2 btw? (might exist in 1 too). Additional playthrus in that game provide a stat increase to your enemies. It increases the difficulty of the game by a noticeable amount, but makes it fun and fair the whole way thru. The only problem I have with this game is that I don't WANT to have to beat the game 10 times to crank the difficulty into overdrive, if I could simply set it at the start of the game >=).
Assuming the game uses a RNG as part of the gameplay, would adjusting the boundaries of the RNG be a valid difficulty setting? For example: In Easy mode, the RNG range for damage is 3d8 - 3. For Hard, make that 4d6 + 6.
Any strategy could be valid, but everything depends on context. Personally I like an RPG with a decent amount of RNG in its damage formulas. Like FF 2/4 for example, sometimes you'd smack for 1k, and then you'd thwack the same target for 6k, and crits were NOT involved. But there was definately a clear average. I rather liked this system personally. I believe it was that you did like 500 damage, but you attacked like 15 times, and you had to roll hit/miss for each attack, when you actually selected attack. I think this system is really cool because it makes hit/evasion useful, without forcing the player into experiencing painful miss streaks on a regular basis(attacks that hit for 0 because they ALL missed I mean). However, hit/evasion can be a very bad thing to manipulate the RNG for assuming you have a more traditional hit/miss system. Because simply making the player see "miss" noticeably more often is probably just going to piss them off.
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While that can be done, it IMO is questionably not worth doing over simply adding more optional bosses to the game as a whole, with the same said "new tactics" as your hard mode enemies. Thereby, increasing the size and content of the game on any difficulty setting..
I used new tactics and additional enemies mainly just to give it a sense of freshness. Its kinda like dinner. You don't wanna have the same thing every night so of course you make something new the next night, and so on and so forth.
I can't speak for tales of abyss because I never played it. But that would be an example of a bad situation or example. This is why I mentioned doubling hp and not damage. Doubling your enemy's damage obviously would require the player to just plain do more grinding, because chances are it would make many enemy attacks that are unavoidable 1shot material for a long time, which doesn't increase difficulty so much as increase the player's need to level. However, with the exception of "I'm at 20% health nuke me down in 5 seconds or I cast ****CATAPOCALYPSEE!!!!111one****, increasing hp by significant amounts increases boss difficulty without actually increasing the need for a player to grind more. Of course, there ARE some rpgs where the enemy damage output is gimp by nature, and probably COULD be buffed safely without forcing the player to level more. Anyway, giving the player the option to manipulate all of these, while requiring little more code than global constants in front of each stat would go a long way given the little effort required.
Yeah I figured you never played ToTA. I'll give you some insight on what their difficulty modes did.
You had Normal, Hard, Very Hard, and Unknown(Japan had 5, which included a Mania mode between Hard and Very Hard). On Normal, stats are normalized(1.0x). Hard mode multiplies those stats by 1.5, Very Hard by 2x, and lastly Unknown Mode multiplies the stats by...3.5(Originally 4x in the Japanese version). Now on higher modes it would allow some bosses to use their Mystic Arte(think of it as an ultimate attack). If they used them before, then they might use a different one(IF they have more than one), or reuse them later on in the battle(They usually do them when their HP is at certain points). However this isn't a problem, cause most of them are easily dodgeable(Some are full screen but won't kill, just reduce your HP to 1 at the most).
The first battle I mention is against 1 enemy, and is sort of a tutorial battle. On Unknown mode however, its just an annoyance as its a battle that lasts 10 minutes with you just infinitely wacking the damn thing dealing only 1 HP worth of damage. If your Attack(Or F. Attack, which is kinda like Magic Attack) is less than half the enemies Defense(F. Defense in cases of F. Attack), then you'll only deal 1 Damage per hit, even if you use your character's Mystic Arte. The only good thing about Unknown mode is that it can be played after you give yourself special NG+ Bonuses like 10x more exp and such, but after the first battle you just wanna say "Screw it" and switch to Hard or Very Hard mode.
I'm sure you weren't planning on something like this when you mention buffing stats for higher difficulties(You said it yourself, HP only), but of course this is one example of what not to do. While an HP buff for higher difficulties is a nice touch, attacking a few other new additions wouldn't hurt. Heck not every enemy/boss needs a new attack/tactic, just a few of the more "Smarter" ones.
Have you played valkarie profile 2 btw? (might exist in 1 too). Additional playthrus in that game provide a stat increase to your enemies. It increases the difficulty of the game by a noticeable amount, but makes it fun and fair the whole way thru. The only problem I have with this game is that I don't WANT to have to beat the game 10 times to crank the difficulty into overdrive, if I could simply set it at the start of the game >=).
Never played a VP game, except the one for the DS. I've watched the original and VP2 though at SpeedDemosArchive(I'm..sorta trying to work on getting a Touhou game up on the site but I got no one wanting to be a verifier for Touhouvania x_x). The only thing I find wrong with what you mentioned is that I could have some really powerful equipment from the first playthrough to just blaze through the game even with a stat increase to enemies(Then again, I don't know much on how those 2 work compared to the DS one). If the stat increase is enough to make it so that using such items don't make it so easy to blaze through then that works since it would provide a little difficulty. Not that much if the enemies fight the same since I would just have to kill it the same way as before, just with stat differences.
Any strategy could be valid, but everything depends on context. Personally I like an RPG with a decent amount of RNG in its damage formulas. Like FF 2/4 for example, sometimes you'd smack for 1k, and then you'd thwack the same target for 6k, and crits were NOT involved. But there was definately a clear average. I rather liked this system personally. I believe it was that you did like 500 damage, but you attacked like 15 times, and you had to roll hit/miss for each attack, when you actually selected attack. I think this system is really cool because it makes hit/evasion useful, without forcing the player into experiencing painful miss streaks on a regular basis(attacks that hit for 0 because they ALL missed I mean). However, hit/evasion can be a very bad thing to manipulate the RNG for assuming you have a more traditional hit/miss system. Because simply making the player see "miss" noticeably more often is probably just going to piss them off.
Good thing you're talking about the original FFIV and not The After Years :v That RNG was HORRIBLE.
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There's more to work with in designing gameplay difficulty levels than base numerical stats and complete AI overhauls, you realize. There are plenty of other nuances, and Labyrinth actually included a lot of them: actions that change the boss' weakness properties, differences in the recovery or charge time of attacks, differences in information given to the player, new or different counterattack AI, or changes in added properties to attacks. The last one in particular could work pretty well.
For example, Cirno. For a given combat phase she'd use a different attack on each difficulty. Or the same attack, with different properties, though that'd be confusing without a difficulty note at the end of it (lol icicle fall -easy-). On Easy, that given attack would just do single-target ice damage. On Normal, it also debuffs speed a little. On Hard, it debuffs speed more. On Lunatic, it hits the whole party for a slightly smaller speed debuff. These little strategic nuances are a big part of what made Labyrinth fun to me, so they're worth capitalizing on.
I don't know what I'm saying anymore.
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Just to point out, for VP2, there was no actual "New Game +". Nothing got carried over, but enemy stats increased. The thing that made this humanly possible in VP2 is that the way the game's battle system was designed, you could defeat an enemy far, far beyond your statistical capabilities through skill, careful movement, and planning.
Anyway though, I'm now scared to think of a Lunatic version Touhou Labyrinth D:
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Garlyle, remember my idea? After Lunatic their is Extra and Phantasm >:D Easy, Normal, Hard, Very Hard(Lunatic), Even Harder(Extra), Way to Hard(Phantasm) >:D
But for Labyrinth itself I beat Serpent of Chaos after taking a break from the game.
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Came back and explored 26F. Or at least, the top left corner. Darn
Shikieiki
. MASTER SPAAAARK deals 2m damage, which is 1/7th of her HP, but even if I get 3 or 4 full power sparks, Last Judgement is a 0hko that's constantly whittling down my party >:
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NeoMargatroid, that fight is simple, you just need to make her die before you die. You shouldn't be surviving Last Judgement with anyone other then the HP Tank.
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NeoMargatroid, that fight is simple, you just need to make her die before you die. You shouldn't be surviving Last Judgement with anyone other then the HP Tank.
Makes me want to pump some HP skill points into that girl and use her juuust for this fight.
Anyway, is it just me, or do half of the Plus-Disk characters not have sound effects with their special attacks? I mean, is that fixed when they become player characters?
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Anyway, is it just me, or do half of the Plus-Disk characters not have sound effects with their special attacks? I mean, is that fixed when they become player characters?
It's them when you fight them. When you use them they have Sound Effects for moves. it might be a slight error in the code of the move or sumthin.
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I'm pretty sure
CAUTION! CAUTION!
had appropriate SFX, but aside from that, yeah, sometimes those are omitted.
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Massive Kedama = PURE MANLINESS.
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I just noticed something, something AWESOME!
In th Labyrinth version 2.06, if you turn off Spell Animation, some spell effects are gone. Specifically, Flandre doesn't suffer damage from Starbow Break, and her Laevatein doesn't affect party member turn gauges, Utsuho's 2nd Spell no longer gives her a MAG Buff or DEF/MND Debuff, and the big one I noticed, Rinnosuke does not lose TP from his Buff! You can use his buff as much as you please and get all the good effects, without the TP downside. Turning off spell animation kills off 1 of Flandres problems, making her even better!
Woohoo! :D :D :D
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That's probably one of the 2.06 glitches.
Flandre
without the secondary effects on her spells is probably broken. Rinnosuke
definitely is (lol 100% ATK/MAG/DEF/MND party buff with no downsides except big delay).
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So level 60 is the reccomended level for the Trio if you use the Plus Disc apparently...
Guess I have some Grinding to do...
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So level 60 is the reccomended level for the Trio if you use the Plus Disc apparently...
Guess I have some Grinding to do...
Not sure where you got that idea from, I just did it at Reimu 51.
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Japaneese Wiki listed them with a seperate Level reccomendation for Plus Disk.
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I don't think anybody here has played non-plus disk.
Maybe they got a buff in 2.06? I dunno.
level 60 sounds like a high enough level to beat them while taking a couple astrological entombings >=P.
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Without relying as much on luck, basically? :V
I like to mix up grinding and attempts at progress; spend a run of TP until someone leaves/dies to level, then come back and give the trio another shot. They're beatable at earlier points if you exploit their weaknesses and know how their AI works.
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Regaardless I doubt I have much of a chance at winning when almost everyone but reimu is level 46-ish.
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Regaardless I doubt I have much of a chance at winning when almost everyone but reimu is level 46-ish.
No, you probably do. The easiest test is this:
Put Tenshi, Ran, Reimu, Patchy as your front line.
Cast Great Hakurei Barrier and Eighty Million Holy Boards
If you're still taking damage from anything not named "Galaxy In A Pot", you're probably not strong enough.
On the other hand, if you see a string of 0s, you're good. I was able to beat them at that level
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I have problems keeping the buffs up when I use that Method seeing as I don't want to do a massive stall war.
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Ironically, I LIKE massive stall wars. Especially when I can't tell how close my opponent is to dying so that I can stop having it be a massive stall war.
And maintaining proper buffs is very important for later boss battles. Hakurei Barrier can make the difference between getting 60% of your HP torn off vs. losing 20%. Or more, in Garyle's example (which HAS occurred for me). Buffs is damn important. As are debuffs, when that's an option - but the Trio AI apparently doesn't like that, even if they're pretty weak to status effects.
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You could replace the 1st character Garlyle mentioned with someone like Remilia or Marisa, anyone with good MND and good DEF is preferable, and they would of course offer some dps. Only a grand total of 3 or 4 moves should hit harder then 0, they are
Shadowstitch, Galaxy in a Pot, Hourai Barrage and Astronomical Entombing. Shadowstitch because it seems to be DEF based, same goes for Galaxy in a Pot. Hourai Barrage(Kaguya) and Astronomical Entombing(Eirin) are just extremely freaking powerful, even Patchy with 3000 MND and a 80%-100% DEF/MND Buff dies from Entombing, but that same Patchy is other wise invincible to their MND based attacks.
That is actually one of the games harder, if not, hardest fights, so don't feel bad for losing to it.
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Flame Tyrant was such a joke.
Reimu at level 213. I have a loooooooooooooooooooong way to go.
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Flame Tyrant was such a joke.
Reimu at level 213. I have a loooooooooooooooooooong way to go.
I found that boss quite difficult.. Of course I never bothered to try par. That might have helped.
On a personal note, I just beat floor 13 on my 2nd 2nd playthru now yay. God I hate that floor. The trash sucks (well those stupid swordfish mostly, but they are so damn common), the monster encounter rate is in OVERDRIVE (fight eveyr 5 steps, yay!), the stupid arbitrary number "binary" basically forces you to use a guide, because the clues aren't obtainable using logic rather than pure guesswork and luck, not to mention the clues, added together, really don't tell you much about the entire floor rather than a couple treasure areas and the next floor.
I think it's my least fave floor in the game, at least 7 can be done easily enough with a decent memory, and 10-12 has good music, variety of enemies, as well as a variety of battle music, and an epic boss fight.
Gah floor 13 stinks. And afterwards, it marks the beginning of fun yet difficult trash (sword fish aren't fun. Being OHKO randomly before anybody but chen who can't kill them herself anyway doesn't count).
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Makes me want to pump some HP skill points into that girl and use her juuust for this fight.
Later on you are going to have to pump HP skill points into everyone anyway, since you won't be able to survive attacks later on as only a handful of decent offensive characters have good DEF/MND to complement it, so you'll need to offset it with mucho HP. Even with over 6000 levels in HP, people like Patchy can still get 1 to 3HKOed by the 30F bosses.
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Later on you are going to have to pump HP skill points into everyone anyway, since you won't be able to survive attacks later on as only a handful of decent offensive characters have good DEF/MND to complement it, so you'll need to offset it with mucho HP. Even with over 6000 levels in HP, people like Patchy can still get 1 to 3HKOed by the 30F bosses.
I meant, that girl had 0 levels and skp in anything because I've never used her before in this play. I did end up pumping her HP and leveling her up just for this fight though, and massively rearranged equipment so my best characters for this fight (Komachi, Renko, Reimu, Yuugi, Flandre
) couldn't be 0hkoed.
Now I'm exploring 27F when I'm bored. It's really tedious, especially since the random fights actually kill me sometimes >:
Also, Patchy's the most frail character in the game, and with her pathetic HP stat, it doesn't matter how much of a % bonus you put in it ^^;
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Also, Patchy's the most frail character in the game, and with her pathetic HP stat, it doesn't matter how much of a % bonus you put in it ^^;
Even with over 6000 levels in HP, people like Patchy can still get 1 to 3HKOed by the 30F bosses.
Doesn't matter if it's still comparatively low, it makes a huge-ass difference nonetheless. Lots of HP can be the gap between Patchy constantly being OHKOed as opposed to her being hit once for lots of damage and then being healed again. Or switched out. :/
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I find patchy's survivability (when in the back row of course) to be relatively high among my dudes actually, I spent approximately the same amount of skillpoints on her hp as all my other non-tanks, and it makes plenty of difference I assure you. Doing so allows her to survive 3-4 row-attack physical strikes like tai slash, samidere slash, etc...She STILL gets insta-pwnt by needle parades and arrow rains however. Just don't ignore her mnd stat thinking it's high enough, paying as much attention to her mnd as you do her mag will ensure she takes 0 damage from pretty much any spell that isn't pure physical (even composite attacks will barely touch her).
I find flandre to be MUCH harder to keep alive personally. Despite her high hp, the amount of damage she takes from a move is often 4X more than everyone, nuking herself using starbrow break doesn't help either. Even with defensive buffs she still takes more damage from weak spells like leaf dance than your other dudes do from big nukes like ether flare.
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Flandre does take mean amounts of damage from magic, but she actually has a higher DEF then Siki if I am correct, that or similar. This means she actually can take decent damage, and if you have Meiling out as well, Flan can use Starbow without fear, as Meiling can usually nullify and Starbow damage with Healer.
I have nothing left to do in the game T-T I have cleared 30F, beaten pretty much everything that shows, slapped all the bosses their around more then once. Whats left?
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I have nothing left to do in the game T-T I have cleared 30F, beaten pretty much everything that shows, slapped all the bosses their around more then once. Whats left?
Do a no-equips run
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Do a no-equips run
I'll probly carry over all levels and skill levels and characters and have spell animation off, so I can just cheese the entire game with 15F and 18F >:D
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No optional characters run with spell animations on.
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No optional characters run with spell animations on.
Aka, the first 5 characters and anyone else forced :O That sounds mean.
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Just grind more. A whole lot more
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Just grind more. A whole lot more
True, but that denies me my more liked characters :c I like Super-Nuke and HP-Tank a lot.
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True, but that denies me my more liked characters :c I like Super-Nuke and HP-Tank a lot.
:suwakodwi:
Be grateful that we didn't say you can't use Patchy at all. :V
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No optional characters run of the main game would be...
Reimu, Marisa, Remilia, Sakuya, Patchouli, Chen, Cirno, Youmu, Alice, Ran, Reisen, Eirin, Yukari, Rinnosuke
.
The main difficulty would be that until you actually -beat- The Trio(tm), you don't have a full set of 12 characters. And your tanks are... well, sort of subpar (Remilia's decently survivable, but I found that she was beaten out in almost every way by Meiling for tanking purposes; Patchy is an anti-magic tank at least, Youmu, Alice, Eirin, Yukari, and Rinnosuke
are all semi-decent at tanking, kind of?
I think it'd be possible though. You still have Reimu, which is the biggest one. Hell, I think everyone on that list is someone usable, with the possible exception of Reisen
? (I have never found her all that useful)
Alternatively take the Level 1 Everyone save and beat the main game with the Plus Disk cast ONLY.
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For me, I wouldn't have a full cast of good chars, until after 18F.
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Plus Disc characters only means only a party of 10?
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Plus Disc characters only means only a party of 10?
How are you getting 10 from 8 characters ???
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How many was it per page again? I forgot damnit :blush:
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How many was it per page again? I forgot damnit :blush:
8 per page. Thus 8 Plus Disk chars.
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Still gotta do a whole lot of grinding with your team of 8.
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Solo Reisen game.
You know you want to.
And ultimately what I didn't like seeing as I got into higher levels was Patchouli's speed stat staying so low; I never really tried her out after a certain point, but I suspect it would have been a major issue with her after a while...
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Any character at level 400+ with over Lv 100 in their Skill Levels can solo the game >:D
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Any character at level 400+ with over Lv 100 in their Skill Levels can solo the game >:D
Really? Even Renko
?
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Really? Even Renko
?
Yep, you just need to equip her properly. Please remember the reccomended level for Final Boss, Reimu Lv 130+, so 400+ for a Solo is very doable, I'd think.
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Solo Reisen game with legit leveling/equipment.
:V
But yeah, enough levels and you can just overpower anything, really...
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Yep, you just need to equip her properly. Please remember the reccomended level for Final Boss, Reimu Lv 130+, so 400+ for a Solo is very doable, I'd think.
Way by the time you reach level 400, most characters would be completely invincible to the Final Boss's attacks anyway; except for her nuke after a self-buff, but that would still be negligible.
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No optional characters run of the main game would be...
Reimu, Marisa, Remilia, Sakuya, Patchouli, Chen, Cirno, Youmu, Alice, Ran, Reisen, Eirin, Yukari, Rinnosuke
.
The main difficulty would be that until you actually -beat- The Trio(tm), you don't have a full set of 12 characters. And your tanks are... well, sort of subpar (Remilia's decently survivable, but I found that she was beaten out in almost every way by Meiling for tanking purposes; Patchy is an anti-magic tank at least, Youmu, Alice, Eirin, Yukari, and Rinnosuke
are all semi-decent at tanking, kind of?
I think it'd be possible though. You still have Reimu, which is the biggest one. Hell, I think everyone on that list is someone usable, with the possible exception of Reisen
? (I have never found her all that useful)
Alternatively take the Level 1 Everyone save and beat the main game with the Plus Disk cast ONLY.
I discussed this with a friend the other day actually; we came to the conclusion that while the lack of a pure tank in Meiling or Tenshi
might be a fair problem, by far the biggest problem is that your only healer is also your only def/mnd buffer up to Eientei
, and she'll run out of steam extremely quickly.
For it to be vaguely plausible (that is, without overgrinding massively), the only real way is to make a concession and letting a dedicated healer (probably Minoriko) take the place of any of the usable characters for boss battles until you get Eirin
.
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Give Remi DEF (maybe some MND?) level ups. Tank problem solved. She doesn't have Healer like Meiling, and slightly less hp, but I think she ends up with better DEF and certainly MND in this case, plus she's got a self-buff.
12F trio would probably be the really hard part, and the rest shouldn't be that horrible.
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Am I really the only one that tried to use Meiling as the tank for the entire game?
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Am I really the only one that tried to use Meiling as the tank for the entire game?
I used her from when I got her to 30F, so it's not just you.
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Am I really the only one that tried to use Meiling as the tank for the entire game?
I found Meiling to be the best tank choice by far. Healer's stat heals are invaluable, and she has the highest non-7Fgirl HP combined with a great self-heal, plus amazing DEF if you give her that on level ups.
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Throw a spanner in the works: Minoriko is NOT recruitable without Meiling. You expect any of your characters to carry around that lump of ice?
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You expect any of your characters to carry around that lump of ice?
Yuugi could do it one handed, while sipping some Sake. Suika could carry her too but it wouldn't be as epic, Mokou would just fry her worse than McDonald's, and Yukari's portals will just shatter her. Oh right, Utsuho would fry her worse than Mokou, Keine could carry her, Kanako may be able to as well, but the other 5 Plus Disk characters wouldn't be able to help, but who wants to wait till the Plus Disk for Minoriko?
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Yuugi could do it one handed, while sipping some Sake. Suika could carry her too but it wouldn't be as epic, Mokou would just fry her worse than McDonald's, and Yukari's portals will just shatter her. Oh right, Utsuho would fry her worse than Mokou, Keine could carry her, Kanako may be able to as well, but the other 5 Plus Disk characters wouldn't be able to help, but who wants to wait till the Plus Disk for Minoriko?
^ Win. But couldn't Yukari just Gap Minoriko into the light?
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^ Win. But couldn't Yukari just Gap Minoriko into the light?
If she could do that, why didn't she just gap you straight to 20F
?
Also yeah. 90% of the time Meiling is the best tank. The other 10% of the time is when either A) the boss loves defense-piercing moves and is vulneurable to stat debuffs (So you use the 7F tank), or B) when you can actually flat out negate all damage the boss is doing, in which case 10F. But when either of these conditions aren't true, Meiling takes the victory.
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If the enemy has no def-ignore attacks, 10F girl is the best tank if you are moderately above level. She'll be taking 0s the whole time >=P.
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If the enemy has no def-ignore attacks, 10F girl is the best tank if you are moderately above level. She'll be taking 0s the whole time >=P.
Which is pretty much a total boss cheese and should make you feel bad >:I
Besides, Meiling's Healer is great for healing status effects and the heal portion seems to scale faster then many character's HP; plus, if you've got Renko
in your party, Meiling will be healing 1.5~2x as much and it becomes quite significant. Also, Meiling's speed is much greater then 10F, for switching people.
I can't say that 10F isn't awesome for several boss fights; but as I said, for many of those she's so awesome it's practically cheating.
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Then again, that's the whole point of miss 10F
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Yeah I don't really use her much (not at all in my 2nd playthru), She might be op for many situations, but she's pretty boring... I only used her for her buff dispelling ability(which was fail, like never did squat on any but 2 bosses, in which case it would normally only dispell speed only), and for replacing dead/0sp tanks during a long boss fight.
I still stand by meiling's healr ability actually being significant. Just pump up her atk/mag like you would your average atk/mag characters (Reimu fits in that catagory for me), and her heal should be more than significant for anybody who doesn't have alot of hp. It will also heal some of your especially squishy characters to full completely more often than not (patchy/kaggy). Totally blows at healing other tanks, or high hp targets like flan though (though it offsets a starbrow break self-nuke).
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Yeah, Healer is awesome. (But I had the stupid stat-raise strategy of "use skill points evenly on all characters for every stat up to stat-up cost XXXX, move up to next arbitrary value after full party meets minimum expectation, so.)
I also initially brought out T 10F explicitly for her buff-dispel ability (which helped a TON against the final boss, and a decent bit against some others), but kept her around as just backup or "I'm not gonna die in the meantime" damage. Even if she takes 0 damage, she generally isn't doing much in the meantime, especially if you have to risk zeroing out her speed or damage potential to buff her defenses in order to get those delicious 0s; Meiling's non-suck speed and support abilities make her a better devoted tank, that can heal or switch out your other characters to keep them alive. Healer's low SP cost also helps when you're trying to recover from getting screwed over by Dijinn Storm or the like.
Though I'll admit her offense is ass when she DOES have a free moment.
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Yeah, F10 is pretty damn godly for ensuring you have someone out, so long as she can negate the attacks - but like I said, once that stops happening, her HP is so low that she goes down fast if something's doing enough damage to get through her defenses.
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10Fs DEF/MND buff is the best thing about her, past that I find her useless.
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I'm going to be adding this to the wiki anyways, but I created a really simple formula to measure how good a character's affinities are overall since the wiki's total affinities stat doesn't really give you an estimate of how good affinities are tbh. All characters ranked from best to worst:
kaguya: 9.06
eirin: 8.72
kourin: 8.54
keine: 8.52
patchy: 8.48
kanako: 8.39
siki: 8.25
meiling: 8.21
yukari: 8.11
tenshi: 8.03
yuka: 7.90
alice: 7.84
iku: 7.79
yuyuko: 7.60
ran: 7.55
sakuya: 7.55
sanae: 7.51
suika: 7.41
marisa: 7.41
youmu: 7.37
mokou: 7.36
maribel: 7.28
nitori: 7.24
renko: 7.22
remilia: 7.14
reimu: 7.05
mystia: 6.85
komachi: 6.83
aya: 6.78
rumia: 6.66 xD
reisen: 6.55
suwako: 6.36
orin: 6.24
wriggle: 6.11
yuugi: 5.75
utsuho: 5.65
chen: 5.54
mino: 5.24
cirno: 5.00
flandre: 1.08
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Wow, that's pretty impressive Fishin :) I would give you a cookie you donut, but I don't know where you live, ect... :V
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I think the stat-skillpoints affinities are the most glaring omission from the wikis, actually. 10F's DEF and MND are equal under normal conditions, but it takes fewer skillpoints to raise her DEF, and they end up uneven if you raise those based on skillpoint cost.
There's some other oddities, I'm sure, but just as an example...
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I think the stat-skillpoints affinities are the most glaring omission from the wikis, actually. 10F's DEF and MND are equal under normal conditions, but it takes fewer skillpoints to raise her DEF, and they end up uneven if you raise those based on skillpoint cost.
There's some other oddities, I'm sure, but just as an example...
Yes it is. I started collecting some data on many of the character's skillpoint costs. But it wasn't complete, and it wasn't exact. I just recorded how many skillpoints it costs to upgrade a stat once it reaches skill level 50 or something, I forget, for like 20 characters.
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This game's been really buggy for me. After doing everything on the troubleshooting page on the wiki in addition to reinstalling I've got it working up to loading the title screen properly, but when I select new game the screen goes black and the music stops, and it stays that way until I close it. It does this regardless of an English patch.
Any tips? Windows 7 64-bit in case that somehow makes a difference.
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Do you have any Japanese characters in the file path? That caused a similar problem for me.
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Do you have any Japanese characters in the file path? That caused a similar problem for me.
Nope, removed them. Rolled back display drivers as well.
Specifically, this (http://i44.tinypic.com/1zev8rn.png) is what I see when I start the game, and this (http://i43.tinypic.com/116pfld.png) is what I see after clicking new game. No error messages, it just fades to black and stays black.
If I click load game, it brings up the menu like it should.
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Your ratings are... unusual.
Here, have the actual list of every character's total natural affinities:
Chen (550), Komachi (610), Mystia (615), Cirno (616), Flandre (621), Suwako (622), Renko (623), Yuugi (631), Youmu (651), Orin (653), Wriggle (655), Rumia (659), Reimu & Sakuya (660), Reisen (665), Minoriko & Remilia (669), Aya (670), Sanae (681), Marisa (684), Maribel (698), Alice & Nitori (700), Mokou (704), Iku (719), Tenshi (726), Meiling (766), Suika (775), Sikieiki (790), Yukari (793), Yuyuko (800), Keine (805), Patchouli (815), Ran (827), Kanako (844), Utsuho & Yuka (846), Eirin (862), Rinnosuke (899), Kaguya (915)
Yes, Flandre
isn't the lowest total affinity. In fact she's fifth. I'd also make the argument that by the time you get her, you should easily be able to pump her natural affinities up to at least 100 without debting yourself too much in SKP. And while others will probably be seeing a natural 150-200 by this point with those same costs, keep in mind that nobody else will have a natural ~350 either without a seriously large investment.
I have these for every other character and stat, by the way, if you wanted to see EXACTLY where people fall. This is the list I used to generate the ratings used originally, although someone went and finished it off anyway.
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Got the game working now. Turns out I hadn't realized I'd forgotten to use the bonus disc before updating to v2.04. :V
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Your ratings are... unusual.
Here, have the actual list of every character's total natural affinities:
...
Yes, Flandre
isn't the lowest total affinity. In fact she's fifth. I'd also make the argument that by the time you get her, you should easily be able to pump her natural affinities up to at least 100 without debting yourself too much in SKP. And while others will probably be seeing a natural 150-200 by this point with those same costs, keep in mind that nobody else will have a natural ~350 either without a seriously large investment.
I have these for every other character and stat, by the way, if you wanted to see EXACTLY where people fall. This is the list I used to generate the ratings used originally, although someone went and finished it off anyway.
Flandre
doesn't have the lowest overall natural Affinity, BUT her average affinities are a piece of shit. High FIR affinity but shitty everything else, sub-80 is horrendous! Fishin's listings are a RATING of HOW GOOD the affinities are, not the ACTUAL affinities themselves.
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Mathematically speaking, on average, spoiler-chan's affinities work out to just slightly above 100; contrast Chen, at the lowest, whose affinites average out to just slightly over 90.
If you're talking about the Median though (I think it's the Median - you know, the 'this is the actual central value when all are put in a line'), yes, she does end up the worst.
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If I read it right, that listing is NOT a guide to how good someone's affinities are, OR how high they are on average, they are a guide to how much they COST to upgrade via skillpoints, natural levels uncalculated.
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If I read it right, that listing is NOT a guide to how good someone's affinities are, OR how high they are on average, they are a guide to how much they COST to upgrade via skillpoints, natural levels uncalculated.
Uh
I'm going to be adding this to the wiki anyways, but I created a really simple formula to measure how good a character's affinities are overall since the wiki's total affinities stat doesn't really give you an estimate of how good affinities are tbh. All characters ranked from best to worst:
???
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Uh
???
derp, I was confusing the topic at hand with what I quoted last (which apparently has been deleted since) regarding the stat-skillpoint affinities, the topics were fairly similar so I got them confused.
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Your ratings are... unusual.
The thing is that the value of affinities decreases as you go up, so having one sky-high affinity and the others in the dirt isn't as useful as a balanced set, even if the balanced set doesn't have as high of a total. Having an affinity of 50 increases damage by 100%, while having an affinity of 150 decreases it by only 33%.
For example, say you're facing a boss that uses all six elements equally with attacks that do 1000 damage each time regardless of defenses. Take a character who has a 500 in Fire and 20 in everything else, and a character who has 100 in everything.
Character A takes:
200 damage from the fire attack (1000 x .2)
5000 damage from all the other attacks (1000 x 5)
Character B takes:
1000 damage from each attack (1000 x 1)
And just for the hell of it, take a character who has 200 in Fire and Cold but 50 in everything else:
500 damage from the fire/ice attacks (1000 x .5)
2000 damage from everything else (1000 x 2)
So in the end, character A takes 25200 damage total and character B takes 6000 total. Character C takes 9000. The closer to being totally balanced your affinities are, the higher the weighted rating will be (of course, it's also affected by how high your affinities are total).
I'd also make the argument that by the time you get her, you should easily be able to pump her natural affinities up to at least 100 without debting yourself too much in SKP.
This is valid, but you can't really compare a character that joins on 14F to a character that joins on 1F that way, because lack of skill points on 1F is a party-wide problem, it's not unique to any specific character. That, plus the fact that by 14F, assuming you're distributing resources equally, 1F character will have as many skill points invested in affinities as 14F, so if you're trying to compare the characters during the time they're both available, it's a moot point.
And while others will probably be seeing a natural 150-200 by this point with those same costs, keep in mind that nobody else will have a natural ~350 either without a seriously large investment.
That's because it's a rating for affinities as a whole, not individual affinities.
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Is there any more Bloodstained Seal bosses on floors after the 20th?
Because I can't seem to find any more of them.
[EDIT] Oh hey. I totally forgot about the bees on floor 1.
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Is there any more Bloodstained Seal bosses on floors after the 20th?
Because I can't seem to find any more of them.
[EDIT] Oh hey. I totally forgot about the bees on floor 1.
Bloody Seal V.2s are on 21F, and Twin Bees V.2 is on 30F
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Is there any more Bloodstained Seal bosses on floors after the 20th?
Because I can't seem to find any more of them.
[EDIT] Oh hey. I totally forgot about the bees on floor 1.
When do said bees appear?
Also, from what I've read, there's apparently an optional enemy that appears where Meiling used to be... Any idea how to trigger it?
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When do said bees appear?
Also, from what I've read, there's apparently an optional enemy that appears where Meiling used to be... Any idea how to trigger it?
Bees appear after other Blood Seals are destroyed. Check the original seal you saw to fight. At least I think that's the one.
Optional enemy? Uh..no idea. First time I heard of it, unless I forgot about a boss.
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Bees appear after other Blood Seals are destroyed. Check the original seal you saw to fight. At least I think that's the one.
Optional enemy? Uh..no idea. First time I heard of it, unless I forgot about a boss.
I think it is a boss, but as best as I can tell from the translated Japanese wiki, there's apparently some sort of optional boss that shows up in the spot where Meiling was, according to the English Wiki there's something called a "Disgusting Malice"?
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I think it is a boss, but as best as I can tell from the translated Japanese wiki, there's apparently some sort of optional boss that shows up in the spot where Meiling was, according to the English Wiki there's something called a "Disgusting Malice"?
Only thing I can think of is one of the bugs you need to kill for Wriggle, though it's not where Meiling was, in the general area.
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Only thing I can think of is one of the bugs you need to kill for Wriggle, though it's not where Meiling was, in the general area.
No, that's not it... Eh, maybe it was a mistake or something. =|
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The enemy table does have a Disgusting Malice on 1F. From the stats, it looks like you should fight it before Cirno. A better question though, is how you make it appear.
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Maybe it's in 2.06 but not 2.04?
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Argh.
ARGH
So, finally got back into the game. 18F.
I refuse to level any more. I am CERTAIN I can beat this boss if I do this right. 100% certain. For reference, my Highest Level is only 99.
Why am I certain? Because I swear to god I just had his final phase down to about 20-30k remaining. THAT'S IT. And that's after going into the phase with Meiling, Yukari (Who by now had 0 TP), Reimu, and a fully-charged Marisa sitting in the back.
But dear lord doing it so underlevelled takes a long time. It's partially due to computer slowdown (My computer is crappy like that), but the fight just clocked in at half an hour.
I -will- beat Rinnosuke with a sub-100 Party.
EDIT: YEAHHHH
Took a good 20 minutes on my victorious run. I managed to incur minimal penalties for once. My party for the battle...
Yuugi (89), Reimu (97), Yukari (81), Suwako (86), Eirin (81), Flandre (85), Kaguya (87), Marisa (90), Meiling (93), Ran (89), Patchouli (86), Suika (81)
It's worth noting that any videos I've seen of this fight have all had a minimum level of at least 10 more than me.
Anyway, bragging aside, that was intense. Eirin got killed off early, and then he killed off about one person a form due to Start of Heavenly Demise. I've learned to use the Fire phase as my healing and recovery time; the damage he does in that is actually really easily handleable, excluding the occasional Scarlet Gold Sword, and I can focus on restoring my buffs. Going into the final phase, all I had was Ran, Yukari, Yuugi, Suwako, Meiling, and Reimu left. I got lucky, and he didn't use World-Shaking Military Rule until a couple actions into his final phase. My final moments involved me swapping in Yuugi (After a buffed SoHD blew up Yukari, Suwako, and Ran) in a desperate attempt to get one more attack... and he acted a split second before and took out Yuugi with a Scarlet Gold Sword. This gave me precisely enough time to swap Reimu in, and I made a desperate attack with the only thing I had SP for: Evil Sealing Circle.
11k damage. "God damnit, I'm gonna lo--"
*VICTORY*
Also I had never ever used Suika before this. I don't know why, but she had never seemed to be doing any damage. Then I saw someone using Suika in a Let's Play (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=143620) of the game and was very thuroughly surprised at how much damage she was actually doing. She really saved my ass; high powered NTR/WND moves were really important for me, since those were arguably the two phases I found most dangerous (WND was party-wide speed debuffs and Paralysis, which is HORRIFYING to my setup, and NTR had The Word For World Is Forest, which is the attack I found the single most deadly for him to use)
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I should probably update my sluggishly moving 2nd playthrough.
Sitting on 9F with a (current) Party of Reimu, Marisa, Remilia (no SKP), Patchy (no SKP), Sakuya (no SKP, but I might consider adding some soon), Meiling, Chen, Cirno (no SKP), Minoriko, Youmu, Wriggle and Rumia. I have not switched anybody out yet for "specific" battles (e.g. Yuugi
for an advantage against Tam's). And of course, Reimu Lv36. Sakuya actually seems... decent. Hm.
All bosses encountered so far have been taken out with 0 casualties. Yes, all of them, including the optionals if you're thinking that I'm skipping them intentionally :V
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Just noticed something kind of funny. The way that the level-up goddess whose name I can't remember addresses
Rinnosuke
is... well, kind of unconventional.
Also, what level would be recommended for the boss rush? Right now that and the all items one (since I have every item on the first ten pages apart from the one you get from the boss rush) seems like the stars I should aim for, since the more high-damage v2 bosses kill off most of my party members with a bit more ease than I would like. Flandre, I'm looking at you.
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Just noticed something kind of funny. The way that the level-up goddess whose name I can't remember addresses Rinnosuke
is... well, kind of unconventional.
Also, what level would be recommended for the boss rush? Right now that and the all items one (since I have every item on the first ten pages apart from the one you get from the boss rush) seems like the stars I should aim for, since the more high-damage v2 bosses kill off most of my party members with a bit more ease than I would like. Flandre, I'm looking at you.
Well, the boss rush ends on a fight with the final boss. You should obviously reach a level at which you can handle her with only minimal difficulty, because by the time you reach her you're giong to have mined through a tonne of TP.
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Still haven't beaten the Trio...
Reimu's level 55 rest of the party is around 49...
EDIT: Pesco gave me a suggestion that could help me with Eirin
who is why i'm having trouble so i'll try that later and see if it works.
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Boss rush down! I did get kind of worried when Meiling got DTH'd against Orin and Reimu got stuck at 0 TP, but when most attacks (including those of the final boss) doesn't do any damage at all, not having a healer doesn't matter that much.
However, Akyu still says that I only have two stars. Do I have to go defeat the final boss again or something for the two new ones to show up?
EDIT: Apparently so. Floor 21, here I come!
Also, defeated the final boss without casualties this time.
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Yay I actually got killed by
Hourai Barrage
this time...
EDIT: Finnally beat them. It came down to me hoping for Lucky Avici Debuffs and Status while Reimu took down Kaguya with her second to last Fantasy Seal and Reisen with the last one.
Alice's RI helped alot for Eirin
Time to restructure and reequip my team. where I need to use Rumia and Youmu just to get their events...
EDIT2: I actually have enough BP to not need to includ them yay!
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Finished exploring up to the part of 25F first available (realizing that most of the random battles have pretty much no resistance to any kind of status ailments helped a lot), and obliterated both the last three v2 bosses and the final Bloody Seal back on 1F. Seems like I'm going to have to try to defeat some of all those seal guardians now if I want to proceed...
Also, I assume that Utsuho
is best left alone for now, given how she wiped out my party with her first two attacks.
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Also, I assume that Utsuho
is best left alone for now, given how she wiped out my party with her first two attacks.
Yes, she gets more powerful spells (much more powerful) later on too, one of which completely ignores defense and nukes the entire party for like 60-80k IIRC...This is not a "kill me now or I cast this and you lose!" spell either, it's a "I cast this when I feel like it lolol" spell.
I personally beat her when I was roaming floor 28, with many levels leeched from floor 27 (the best floor to level on until you're so over-leveled that you can probably beat the real final boss, at which point 30F is QUESITONABLY viable, though I still think 27 is better...Mind you I did 30 by that point any way for the uber-sweet item drops, and cuz 27 was boring as fuck at that point).
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Utsuho
is very dangerous at first, but only has FIR and MYS based moves last I checked, and her DEF/MND-piercing move is... MYS-based I think. Once you cna handle her, I would reccomend beating her, cause I loved using her :*
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These items you get in the plus disk are getting slightly ridiculous... Not that I mind, +360% attack for the 15F girl is always nice.
Edit: OH GOD YUKA
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Best item gives +300% to all Stats, HP and SP as well as 20(?) Affliction Resist and +100 to all Elemental Affinities. Picture 3 of those on one character, now picture that on 12 characters :V You know now my equip setup for Labyrinth >:D
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Best item gives +300% to all Stats, HP and SP as well as 20(?) Affliction Resist and +100 to all Elemental Affinities. Picture 3 of those on one character, now picture that on 12 characters :V You know now my equip setup for Labyrinth >:D
quit bragging about cheating =p.
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Eh, whatever :P Besides, I'm not bragging, I am letting people know my equipment setup that floored everything in the game. I find it f***ing stupid to grind from Reimu Lv 100 to Reimu Lv 300+ so I can beat one boss and stand a chance on post game content. 20F does give fantastic Exp, but once you hit Lv200+ it's an actual grind. At least I didn't edit stat growths so that 15F would gain like 1000 ATK per level or anything like that.
Edit: Oh and FYI, Youmu and her Ghost-Half are vulnerable to DTH. HP Tank can DTH both at the same time with one move, should you carry characters over from a previous playthrough.
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quit bragging about cheating =p.
I cheat proudly :V
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Finally defeated the last of the four sigil guardians blocking my way around F25. It was perhaps a bit closer than I would have liked (http://img638.imageshack.us/img638/8739/stillalive.png), but a victory is a victory after all. The last few minutes of the battle consisted of me stalling with Meiling, using Colourful Rain to negate the damage the boss was doing, while waiting for Marisa's SP to recover enough for another 1.5M Master Spark. Luckily enough, that was enough to finish off the boss, as I don't think Meiling's SP would have lasted many more turns...
I then started exploring F26, which seems to be much nicer than the two preceding floors so far. Apart from those annoying Famous Strategists with their Prayers of Supremacy, there is pretty much nothing that can stop me from paralyzing entire enemy parties and then nuking them with the last F12 girl. Though the boss doesn't seem to be that easy... Perhaps I should try enlisting the characters on F21 and F24 first?
Speaking of the F26 boss, by the way: is her one-person 80k nuke supposed to be completely silent?
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Speaking of the F26 boss, by the way: is her one-person 80k nuke supposed to be completely silent?
It seems to be a problem with the Character-Specific attacks on plus-disk bosses. They have sounds when you recruit them, though.
By the way, I'm not kidding when I say that even if you NEVER used Komachi before, she makes the boss a good bit more doable to level her up with HP and just dump some HP skillpoints/gear on her, bringing her in JUST for this fight. No one else can survive that nuke without massive overleveling, which causes a bunch of problems.
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By the way, I'm not kidding when I say that even if you NEVER used Komachi before, she makes the boss a good bit more doable to level her up with HP and just dump some HP skillpoints/gear on her, bringing her in JUST for this fight. No one else can survive that nuke without massive overleveling, which causes a bunch of problems.
Don't worry, I've been using her almost the entire time since I got her. She might not have the survivability of Meiling or the 10F brick wall girl, but the fact that she can survive just about any single attack, even the ones that ignore defence, makes up for it. And having a tank that can actually do a decent amount of damage or inflicting debuffs and paralysis is always nice.
Anyway, is there any way I can tell when that attack is coming? Keeping her in the battle the entire time doesn't seem to be conducing to her having enough HP left to survive it when it comes.
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Anyway, is there any way I can tell when that attack is coming? Keeping her in the battle the entire time doesn't seem to be conducing to her having enough HP left to survive it when it comes.
Not that I know of. Boosting Reimu's appropriate affinities for this fight using equipment is a good idea, so you can keep her out for buffing/healing so Komachi stays up. Now, if Komachi ends up dying, that's okay, but it'll all downhill from there, so try to avoid that.
Also, that boss has a MYS weakness. Master Spark is massively powerful against her.
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quit bragging about cheating =p.
I have like millions of those items from beating the bosses so many times (100 times) >_>
It's possible to get them without cheating... Just have to hate yourself very much.
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I have like millions of those items from beating the bosses so many times (100 times) >_>
It's possible to get them without cheating... Just have to hate yourself very much.
Given it's 5% drop rate from only 1 source, getting 66 from 100 attempts is like winning the lottery twice in a row, even if you DO actually farm that boss enough to get 66 of them, you'll be so overlevel doing it that you could probably trash the entire game naked excluding the final 30F boss' + versions.
My point is simply that an ordinary player shouldn't expect to see that equipment given any ordinary circumstance, utusho did not suggest cheating, I didn't want someone to go wondering wtf this godly item is that they aren't finding >=p
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Ghaleon is right. That item is a 5% or so Drop Rate from a Boss Monster. That means you would, in theory, only get 1 of it for every 20 times to kill that boss. Cheating in order to get 36, 3 for 12 characters is game breaking to the point that the only thing holding you back would be speed, since that isn't boosted the same way other stats are.
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Not that I know of. Boosting Reimu's appropriate affinities for this fight using equipment is a good idea, so you can keep her out for buffing/healing so Komachi stays up. Now, if Komachi ends up dying, that's okay, but it'll all downhill from there, so try to avoid that.
Also, that boss has a MYS weakness. Master Spark is massively powerful against her.
Probably a little late to reply to this, but there is a pattern to 26F boss's single target nuke. She pulls it off...I think it's every 4th turn. Eirin's Hourai Elixir
works very well with getting Komachi's truckload of HP back up into shape.
One thing to note...if 26F boss uses Focus, throw everything and the kitchen sink at her to kill her or you'll high likely get wiped by her following attack. It's seems to be random when she decides to pull it off. Low chance, but random nonetheless. My winning fight against her way back when had her never using Focus. Go figure I had nukes prepped and ready to go, expecting a Focus when she was near death.
Haven't played much recently. Having to grind to survive fights on 30F. Would really help my cause if my comp didn't get slowdown on 27F because I have the whole map filled in. That or being able to get into fights every step on said floor. Even better that would be.
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Given it's 5% drop rate from only 1 source, getting 66 from 100 attempts is like winning the lottery twice in a row, even if you DO actually farm that boss enough to get 66 of them, you'll be so overlevel doing it that you could probably trash the entire game naked excluding the final 30F boss' + versions.
It... It was a hyperbole, though >_>
And yeah I probably could at that point, maybe? I dunno. Lv10000 might still be too low to trash the middle 30F boss naked
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I found out that Final Boss can't summon ads if you have Spell Animation turned off. Sweet!
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I found out that Final Boss can't summon ads if you have Spell Animation turned off. Sweet!
Pretty much, Spell Animation removal is very unrefined option that breaks the game in far too many ways to actually consider using for serious play. For sheer game-breaking purposes though, it sounds quite amusing.
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sounds quite amusing
It's fun for me, I get to see 15F deal 8 digits of damage(I just hit Final Boss V.2 for 18583956) with her 3rd Card, without any penalty. I can spam 18Fs Super Buff freely and more *-* It's soooo much fun when you wanna break the game wide open.
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Cheat Engine can do all that for you too.
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Cheat Engine + Spell Animation Off = Game Smashed Open.
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Finally defeated the 26F boss. That was a close call... About halfway through the battle she decided to paralyse three-fourths of my active party, which rendered me unable to get Komachi ready for the next 80K nuke. Brought out 18F guy and used his super buff to get off a 100%-buffed Master Spark for 2M damage, which wasn't enough. From that point on, I simply brought out the rest of my attackers one by one, switching out new ones when the previous ones fell and putting the less useful ones in front as sacrifices for the nuke. When I had finally gotten her down to so little HP as to prompt Focus my party had been reduced to this (http://img696.imageshack.us/img696/3275/thatwasclose.png). Marisa had just been out for a second Master Spark, and her SP had only had time to regenerate up to about 200; I thought "oh god I'm dead", brought her out to fire a last one, which did slightly less than 1M and defeated the boss.
why do I keep writing paragraphs on my boss battles
Time to go try recruit those two people waiting on 21F and 24F, perhaps. Oh, and what would be a good level to fight the final boss v2?
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I forget but I think final boss v2 was much easier than who you just beat and the Baal avatar.
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I forget but I think final boss v2 was much easier than who you just beat and the Baal avatar.
That seems to be just about correct, as I just steamrollered her in about five turns after the last of her summons went down. OH GOD TWO NEW CHARACTERS TO LEVEL UP ARGH
By the way, was the head summon thing supposed to enter some sort of second phase where my characters would be able to hurt it? It just didn't seem to want to take any damage from normal attacks, so I had to rely on the last of the 12F girls and her MND-ignoring attacks to be able to take it down.
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Actually, yes it was supposed to. When it first uses Rankain, it becomes plausible to dmg it without God-Mode characters.
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Speaking of Rankain: how in the world am I supposed to defeat the 27F boss? I mean, before it starts using it you basically can't do damage to it, and once it does you have three turns left before you're dead. How much HP does that thing have, anyway?
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Speaking of Rankain: how in the world am I supposed to defeat the 27F boss? I mean, before it starts using it you basically can't do damage to it, and once it does you have three turns left before you're dead. How much HP does that thing have, anyway?
It shouldn't 1shot you... use high mnd characters.
I was lucky, and the sigil guardian on 25 (I think i twas 25, the big gold one that shares the same graphic as the enemies on 27f with no defense and extreme wnd weakness) dropped a necronomicon, which features over 300% mnd.
So yeah, patchy+necronomicon = 27F boss solo'd.
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If your having trouble hurting 27F, try out the 26F girls 1st Card. It Ignores DEF completly and has a formula of (ATK x 6.66) which means great damage as well. Lets see Meilings Mountain Breaker beat that card out in DPS :V
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That's against forum policy. You may want to edit that post.
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That's against forum policy. You may want to edit that post.
What's the problem with my post and I'll change it?
I'm considering running through Labyrinth with characters I don't like to much, like Sakuya and Chen.
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Just realized that I had completely forgotten about the boss rush v2, and went back to try it. If I hadn't been so overleveled it would have been kind of a trainwreck: lost
Tenshi yay spoiler tags are back
as early as Yuugi to a 200k (what) Knockout in Three Steps, Reimu got DTH'd by Yuyuko
, and I completely forgot about the 18F boss and ended up using World-Shaking Military Rule against Yukari
thinking it was the last battle (which did have the quite nice effect of powering through her before she could even get off one Barrier Release). Then again, since Patchy and Kaguya
could destroy just about any one of his forms with a single attack, it didn't matter that much.
27F boss still keeps obliterating me with Rankain, though. I've managed to get Tenshi
to survive the first one with 8k HP to spare, but then the second one did 20k more damage for whatever reason (her defense and mind buffs were higher the second time, so it doesn't make any sense), which was more than she could handle. Perhaps it's time to bring out Eirin
again?
And speaking of which, does Rankain have an element?
EDIT: That thing has Djinn Storm as well? :ohdear: Time to grind for a bit...
EDITAGAIN: Remembering that I actually had skillpoints and using about .5M of them to boost Patchy's and Tenshi's
MND skill levels to 150 helped a lot. As in the move kept doing 0-5k damage to them, depending on buff status.
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Rancain is SPR element
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Just reached 30F.
What.
First random encounter: Flandre v3
. I think you can guess how that turned out by yourself.
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Oh, yeah, 30F is filled with enemies like that.
It's all V.2s and V.3s their for random battles.
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Just reached 30F.
What.
First random encounter: Flandre v3
. I think you can guess how that turned out by yourself.
Tee hee.
If you end up being like me and progressively dipping your feet there every so often hoping to see if there are any you can beat for fun/gear. Don't be intimidated by Rinnosukev3 he
is one of the easier ones actualy, AND is probably the most rewarding for gear as well.
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Decided that it would probably be a good idea to fill up my character list before I start taking on floor 30. Recruited
Yuka
without much trouble, but Utsuho
seems to be a bit more annoying. Approximately how much health does she have left once she starts using Hell's Tokamak
? I can survive just fine up until that point, but that attack just rips through my party completely.
Oh, and I assume her attacks are magical, given that Patchy got an Uncontainable Nuclear Reaction
to the face and survived.
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Yeah she's a tough one (Last character I got myself). As for how much hp she has left, I don't really know, but I'm pretty sure it's not as low as you hope. I seem to recall her using that for well over half the fight, I had more trouble with
giga flare
personally, that didn't own you? You must have stacked mys resist or something cuz that move made your bane look like a wet noodle IMO
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I had more trouble with giga flare
personally, that didn't own you? You must have stacked mys resist or something cuz that move made your bane look like a wet noodle IMO
Never actually had her use that move in my last attempt (which was the only one that got past the first few uses of Uncontainable Nuclear Reaction
). If it's worse than Hell's Tokamak
, I'm definitely not looking forward to it...
(By the way, I think you messed up those spoiler tags)
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Never actually had her use that move in my last attempt (which was the only one that got past the first few uses of Uncontainable Nuclear Reaction
). If it's worse than Hell's Tokamak
, I'm definitely not looking forward to it...
(By the way, I think you messed up those spoiler tags)
Lies! I don't know what you're talking about!
Though I'm not really sure why were spoilering out the existence of that character WHEN SHES ON THE COVER >=P
But I described that fight a few pages/thread back.. Just when you think you've seen it all, she has a new spell that omgwtf pwns you.. So you come back 40 levels later, going is ok, I can do this, oh shit another more powerful spell that wtfpwns you. Come back 40 levels later, ok this is tolerable, her weak moves do 0 now Giga flare
OH GOD ID FEEL PAIN BUT I GOT INSTA KILLED!
That's the last, most nastiest one thankfully. And no, she doesn't cast it only when almost dead, I had to take several of those for over half the fight as well *sadface*.
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Her biggest nuke, the MYS one, ignores MND by a large amount or completly when you fight her. Clearly your best defense(lol) is a high MYS stat, which makes the attack trivial in damage count. But then again, having 1000+ in MYS Affinity would nerf any MYS attack to pitiful damage.
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Question about earlier in the game; should I level a certain composite-attacking 8F character in attack, or magic? I tried her out specced for attack on the 9F east boss, but her PAR-inducing move never actually paralyzed once for me the entire fight, and her other physical attack doesn't seem like it's really any better than her multi-target debuffing magic ones for boss fights.
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None of her attacks are composite. She just features 2 physical and 2 magical attacks. So it's up to you to decide which 2 are more useful for you. The physical ones are great against bosses, while the magic ones are great against trash.
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Overall, I think you would be better off pouring into ATK with her rather then MAG, since "you grind to beat the bosses, not the trash. You don't need to build a party around killing trash, you do need to build your party for killing a boss." Those lines sum up that characters use perfectly, and even a good way to set up a party, Boss Killing. Feel free to put into her MAG, but I personally highly reccomend ATK > MAG for
Suwako
Example: If you know the next boss that you can fight will use 3 moderatly powerful ATK-based moves then a really powerful MAG-based FIR move, in that order, for the entire fight, you'll want characters who can take ATK based attacks decently well, but mainly characters who can take MAG-based moves well and characters with high FIR Affinity. You won't have Cirno out for the FIR attack, but you would have characters like Meiling, Remilia and Patchouli for it.
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Overall, I think you would be better off pouring into ATK with her rather then MAG, since "you grind to beat the bosses, not the trash. You don't need to build a party around killing trash, you do need to build your party for killing a boss." Those lines sum up that characters use perfectly, and even a good way to set up a party, Boss Killing. Feel free to put into her MAG, but I personally highly reccomend ATK > MAG for Suwako
My viewpoint on it wasn't necessarily "if I set her up for bosses she'll only have single-target attacks", so much as "both of her MAG spells have debuffs that look really nice, cost about as much as Croaking Frog Eaten By Snake
with similar SP costs, and don't penalize the active gauge as much". Taking out the trash is just a bonus.
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They don't hit nearly as hard though.
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They don't hit nearly as hard, yeah, and the debuff effects aren't actually all that high, if I remember right.
Her first physical attack is more for the PAR effect, but it's an extremely effective one if it connects (I think it's the best in the game?). Her second physical attack, on the other hand, is probably one of the strongest NTR-elemental attacks in the game. If you're worried about her MAG stat, raise it using Skill Points and double-boosting equipment like the Sunglasses or Maser Cannons, rather than putting levels into it. It'll still be enough to be effective.
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Just defeated my first v3 boss. Apart from having a metric ton of HP,
Suwako v3
wasn't that bad... She gave me disappointingly little experience given the time it took to beat her, though.
EDIT: I see what you meant about Giga Flare
... It just wiped my full-HP party at ~80% MND buffs, apart from Komachi
who was left with around 4k HP. That thing had MYS element, right?
Oh, and it would seem like Hell's Tokamak
factors in MND more than Uncontainable Nuclear Reaction
does, given as the former is now reduced to doing at most three-digit damage while the latter still does around 20k even to my tanks.
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With half-decent ATK and a good ATK-buff
Suwako
can hit a later boss for about 100,000+ Damage per use of her Single-Target NTR-based move. That boss has... 650,000 HP or so, somewhere around their. I'm sure you can tell how useful hitting 100k is against a boss with 650k HP.
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Just defeated my first v3 boss. Apart from having a metric ton of HP, Suwako v3
wasn't that bad... She gave me disappointingly little experience given the time it took to beat her, though.
EDIT: I see what you meant about Giga Flare
... It just wiped my full-HP party at ~80% MND buffs, apart from Komachi
who was left with around 4k HP. That thing had MYS element, right?
Oh, and it would seem like Hell's Tokamak
factors in MND more than Uncontainable Nuclear Reaction
does, given as the former is now reduced to doing at most three-digit damage while the latter still does around 20k even to my tanks.
That v3 boss is definately the easiest, she's a complete joke really. She'll be doing 0 damage to your non-tanks before most of the others stop 1-shotting your tanks pretty much (well maybe not, but the gab in difficulty is pretty amazing). There are a couple other particularly easy ones too, I don't remember them all off hand but Reisen and Rinnosuke
were 2 that come to mind.
the 30F trash is terrible for EXP, it wont be worth farming for exp and skillpoints over 27F until you you can beat the final 30F boss once. But I still do it earlier than that due to the chance of some sweet gear drops, along with some variety and fun (27F trash will get boring!)
That spell is Mys element though yes.
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Giga Flare
Ignores MND, so having a 80%+ MND Buff won't help against it.
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Utsuho
recruited! Taking out Reimu with a 30% buffed Giga Flare
wasn't very nice of her, but at that point she had so little HP left that a World-Shaking Military Rule + Hourai Barrage combo
was enough to finish her off. And I found out the hard way that she does have one physical attack when she suddenly decided to use Slash Dive on Patchy, who had been sitting in the third slot taking zero damage up to that point.
I guess this means that all that's left to do at this point is grinding. What would be the recommended level for the first of the 30F bosses? I just tried fighting it, and its attacks aren't instant KOs, so I suppose that is a good sign...
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Utsuho
recruited! Taking out Reimu with a 30% buffed Giga Flare
wasn't very nice of her, but at that point she had so little HP left that a World-Shaking Military Rule + Hourai Barrage combo
was enough to finish her off. And I found out the hard way that she does have one physical attack when she suddenly decided to use Slash Dive on Patchy, who had been sitting in the third slot taking zero damage up to that point.
I guess this means that all that's left to do at this point is grinding. What would be the recommended level for the first of the 30F bosses? I just tried fighting it, and its attacks aren't instant KOs, so I suppose that is a good sign...
For the 30F bosses, the level recommendation curve goes... either 300 -> 400 -> 600, or 400 -> 450 -> 600. I forget which. Might be a combination. Either way, grinding for 30F sucks. There's a pretty general agreement about this from everyone.
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Utsuho
recruited! Taking out Reimu with a 30% buffed Giga Flare
wasn't very nice of her, but at that point she had so little HP left that a World-Shaking Military Rule + Hourai Barrage combo
was enough to finish her off. And I found out the hard way that she does have one physical attack when she suddenly decided to use Slash Dive on Patchy, who had been sitting in the third slot taking zero damage up to that point.
I guess this means that all that's left to do at this point is grinding. What would be the recommended level for the first of the 30F bosses? I just tried fighting it, and its attacks aren't instant KOs, so I suppose that is a good sign...
Yeah, you never saw slash dive? hax, I don't remember anybody saying she has no physical attacks.
What gar-gar said about 30F, I forget too, I think the first dude was 300-350.
As for not being insta-ko'd. that boss has 3 phases. The first is pretty simple (easier than some of the trash on that floor). The 2nd is much worse, and the last is worse but...not as big a jump as the 2nd from the first. The last does has this nasty habit of giving you status ailments and stat debuffs even when you have over 100% resistance. Blah. Boss learns needle parade by phase 2 (the phases are basically 2/3-33 hp, 1/3-2/3, 0-1/3), and forgets it at phase 3. So use up people like patchy and kaggy during phase 1, and hide at phase 2, then use em at 3 again. I generally have to hide them before phase 2 because the ##@%ing boss *ALWAYS* opens with needle parade on its first move on phase 2 for me, so cheap.
Phase changes are fairly obvious because despite not changing graphics or whatever, you'll notice the 2 warmup spells before each big spell suddenly changes. It's a pretty fun boss though IMO. I didn't cheat until after I reached and beat that boss. I think it's a pretty good (and reasonable) goal that feels good to beat.
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Floor 14 and 15 have very frustrating Randoms that manage kill off my team...
And I can't beat the bosses on those floors due to said Randoms... Anyone have advice?
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Floor 14 and 15 have very frustrating Randoms that manage kill off my team...
And I can't beat the bosses on those floors due to said Randoms... Anyone have advice?
At about floor 14 or 15 is when you'll start to run into enemy encounters that it's actually better to run from once in a while.
However, you should still be trying to fight through stuff. Learn what works against what and don't be afraid to experiment a bit; enemies that seem to have extra-high defenses can usually be cut down by attacks with enough power or defense-piercing qualities, usually have weak elements, and in particular have low HP - or are very vulneurable to instant death.
And be ready to start grinding a little. Just take it little chunk by little chunk, pushing deeper and deeper and retreating whenever you end up in danger.
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Floor 14 and 15 have very frustrating Randoms that manage kill off my team...
And I can't beat the bosses on those floors due to said Randoms... Anyone have advice?
After the triple boss, all the floors tend to have pretty nasty trash. Just enjoy the challenge and push on. Trash, unlike bosses, tend to become easy after a little bit of grinding really fast. I mean you don't have to grind just to handle the trash, but explore the map, lose some dudes, go back to town, level up, etc, etc. By the time you're done the floor they tend to be less bad. Some tend to stay pretty ridiculous though, helbelmares come to mind.
For floors 14 and 15 specifically. I'm willing to rekon that you're having grief with bronze golems and black enmels. Neither really require a strategy other than OMGOMGNUKE IT NUKE IT NOW pretty much. Neither have any elemental weaknesses either, and both are immune to paralize. Joy.
Marisa's astroid belt should do decently against the black enmels (yes, astroid belt, it pierces high mnd targets better than her other spells excluding master spark), you might also have luck with Patchy's silent selene, Princess undine wont be any better for them, so don't use it. Rumia's dark side of the moon will work WONDERS, use that if you use her. I remember on my first playthru I just had to run away because everyone that I was using couldn't do better than 0.
Bronze golems are simpler, they don't have crazy defense, just high hp. So focus fire on them and paralize the other enemies if need be. They are not immune to debuffs, so you can also try that if you really have no chance.
Enjoy the next floor though, helbelmares are like blackenmels with 5X more hp, and cast the same spells, only MUCH stronger.
I seem to recall the trash after floor 16 stays relatively difficult compared to most JRPGS, but wont have any super nasty enemies in particular.
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So in other words just barely kill things and continue Grinding...
Great.
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So in other words just barely kill things and continue Grinding...
Great.
Hey, if you want a game where you can steamroll trash all the time there are thousands of others >=P
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The Bronze Golems or w/e on 14F/15F are the big things to run from. Go a head and try to kill one, but give it NO mercy. Master Spark usage is fine, I actually reccomend it. Chances are you will barely kill one before it gets a turn and kills someone in a single Attack, no not Slash Dive or anything like that, just a simple Attack from it and someone is dead. 10F Super Tank MIGHT bu able to take 1 hit without dying, or the HP Tank might survive, but only those two have any chance at first.
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So in other words just barely kill things and continue Grinding...
Great.
I'm on floor 12 right now and haven't had to grind at all beyond doing a single run around floor 9 before fighting Suwako. Honestly by the sounds of it there isn't any real grind to this until you get to the plus disc.
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I'm on floor 12 right now and haven't had to grind at all beyond doing a single run around floor 9 before fighting Suwako. Honestly by the sounds of it there isn't any real grind to this until you get to the plus disc.
I don't think he means level grind. Trust me, trash difficulty after the floor 12 boss is much worse. Floor 13 trash is actually fairly tame minus these stupid swordfish which go first and like OHKOing people, floor 14 bronze golems tend to not @%#@#%ing die, and OHKO people, and floor 15 has these things which tend to not @%@#%%ing take more than 0 damage and 2hko everyone at once, etc. Kinda like those annoying shadowcat thingies on floor 2 which often go first and paralize everyone, those suck.
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I don't think he means level grind. Trust me, trash difficulty after the floor 12 boss is much worse. Floor 13 trash is actually fairly tame minus these stupid swordfish which go first and like OHKOing people, floor 14 bronze golems tend to not @%#@#%ing die, and OHKO people, and floor 15 has these things which tend to not @%@#%%ing take more than 0 damage and 2hko everyone at once, etc. Kinda like those annoying shadowcat thingies on floor 2 which often go first and paralize everyone, those suck.
That's what I get for trying to be an optimist for once. (http://ichimonai.com/forums/images/smilies/anhero.gif)
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I'm on floor 12 right now and haven't had to grind at all beyond doing a single run around floor 9 before fighting Suwako. Honestly by the sounds of it there isn't any real grind to this until you get to the plus disc.
Just wait till the 12F Bosses.
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Just wait till the 12F Bosses.
I actually never found them to be very difficult. Especially if it's you rfirst time playing and you no doubt get lost trying to figure out how to GET to them >=P
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I actually never found them to be very difficult. Especially if it's you rfirst time playing and you no doubt get lost trying to figure out how to GET to them >=P
This. For the most part, I was able to clear the game up to the point at which I met the 18F boss without deliberately grinding for more than a few minutes. This is largely because I searched through every floor manually and made sure I didn't miss anything as opposed to using the maps, so I accumulated a fair share of EXP in the first place.
The 18F boss is just a wall regardless though, especially if you do skip 17F on the way (Since you pretty much can)
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So, erm, what do the various events having to do with "finding a switch that doesn't seem to make anything happen" on 3F and 4F actually do?
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So, erm, what do the various events having to do with "finding a switch that doesn't seem to make anything happen" on 3F and 4F actually do?
You know, I always wonder that myself, then forget about them later. But yeah, I don't know.
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Any tips for the 12F boss fight? Should I target a specific character, or just go for multi-target spells?
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Any tips for the 12F boss fight? Should I target a specific character, or just go for multi-target spells?
You wanna kill left person and top person as close to the same time as possible, be aware left person has 120000 hp, and left person has 240000hp. I personally don't count how many each has personally, I just try and keep the damage between the two even thru the whole fight. The right one is annoying with her debuffs and such. Most people just keep her paralize-locked and deal with the other two, I decided to just kill her first. I could have sworn she never got paralized before but on my 2nd playthru it seemed to work just fine.
Don't rely on debuffing them (other than paralize) too much though because once you get a certain amount, the top one casts a big buff spell you really want to avoid.
Did you get the optional/joinable on 12F? You should, and you'll get some exp while you do to make that fight easier as well. Also by this time you should be able to get the 8F joinable relatively easily now if you haven't yet already (just make sure you don't have anybody weak to fire during the opener).
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You wanna kill left person and top person as close to the same time as possible, be aware left person has 120000 hp, and left person has 240000hp. I personally don't count how many each has personally, I just try and keep the damage between the two even thru the whole fight. The right one is annoying with her debuffs and such. Most people just keep her paralize-locked and deal with the other two, I decided to just kill her first. I could have sworn she never got paralized before but on my 2nd playthru it seemed to work just fine.
Don't rely on debuffing them (other than paralize) too much though because once you get a certain amount, the top one casts a big buff spell you really want to avoid.
Did you get the optional/joinable on 12F? You should, and you'll get some exp while you do to make that fight easier as well. Also by this time you should be able to get the 8F joinable relatively easily now if you haven't yet already (just make sure you don't have anybody weak to fire during the opener).
I've got everyone available up to this point, I was mostly just curious about what order to take them out.
Would Rumia
be a good option to remove debuffs as well as provide minor healing/decent damage as opposed to praying for paralysis to keep taking hold on the right boss?
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Most people just keep her paralize-locked and deal with the other two, I decided to just kill her first. I could have sworn she never got paralized before but on my 2nd playthru it seemed to work just fine.
Paralyzing Right-y is good. Better yet, use multi-targets, and get the occasional hit on one of the other two. Though, keep in mind that Cirno is for starters, pretty fragile, and Reimu taking up this role might also be SP-intensive on her, so you might not have enough for rebuffing / healing. That is, if you use her for the purposes given :V
For the record, I take out Right-y first.
Don't rely on debuffing them (other than paralize) too much though because once you get a certain amount, the top one casts a big buff spell you really want to avoid.
This. Though, I did start using Wriggle's Poison as a means of doing DoT to stall for SP recovery / rebuffing; the damage per SP ratio is actually pretty good. Seeing Left-y constantly healing (read: every 2 turns) because of Poison actually puts a smile to my face.
Did you get the optional/joinable on 12F? You should, and you'll get some exp while you do to make that fight easier as well. Also by this time you should be able to get the 8F joinable relatively easily now if you haven't yet already (just make sure you don't have anybody weak to fire during the opener).
who what i don't recall any 12f what is this nonsense i think you're referring to 10f
Lastly, all the attacks target your MND, save for one attack (and the other two but I think that when any of those are used then you're screwed anyway
I think). This attack... is Galaxy in a Pot
.
Cut: Rumia
is unfortunately, only decent for that battle. If you've been investing into her, then I would guess she could substitute as a secondary all-healer. I wouldn't even bother with trying to use her to deal damage for this battle; Right-y is resistant to MYS for one, and you're probably better off using one-shots / physical-based for the others. Though, if you have nothing left to do, you might as well chip some HP while you wait for SP recovery for your other members.
[/Anecdote of my 2nd playthrough]
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I beat the one on left First with Patchy Spamming Royal Flare and Alice Spamming Return Innatimateness she's weak to Fire based Damage. Righty is only a threat if she can debuff you. Middle should be Nuked as soon as Lefty goes down so you can avoid the Barrage.
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You know, I always wonder that myself, then forget about them later. But yeah, I don't know.
Ah. It seems like the switches on 3F, 4F, and 6F activate a couple of teleporters on 5F, allowing you to reach new areas of 6F. Yay?
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Ah. It seems like the switches on 3F, 4F, and 6F activate a couple of teleporters on 5F, allowing you to reach new areas of 6F. Yay?
Oh, I know where that is. That goes to the Bloodstained Seal boss on that floor.
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Currently up to Floor 7, and stuck on the boss there. Any advice? I've got the first 2 pages of characters recruited, so that's a choice. The problem is the boss starts spamming the multi-target attack later in the battle and I keep getting hit with it before having restored enough HP to survive it. :\
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Rumia for floor 12 boss is probably not particularly useful. The right most enemy debuffs ALL THE TIME when not paralized, so spamming demarcation every time you get debuffed will just make you go oom really fast. Plus it wont offset the damage dealt with its pathetic heal.
As for floor 7 boss...I don't even remember what it is, is it one of those no-name (non-touhou) bosses? They shouldn't be owning you with multi-attacks unless it's ether flare (Which always seems to be the most powerful generic multi-attack, that and overgrowth). If you're having trouble with such a boss chances are you're focusing too much on offensive stats and are neglecting your mnd/def. It's tough to say though, I've never recalled anybody having trouble with floor 7 before.
Edit:
OH DERP, I know the boss, was mistaking floor 7 with 6.
That boss...If you can survive the very first attack (its biggest multi-attack), you really shouldn't have any problems, because after the first attack you should provide yourself with some defensive buffs and such (use hakkurei barrier and such, yeah it eats up sp like mad, but it's worth it, and even if you just have 10% left before the next big nuke, it will go a long way towards helping you survive it due to the add/subtract nature of stats in this game).
Pour some sp into fire affinity too if you haven't already, probably 5 ranks is more than enough, but definately don't let it sit at 1 still.
-
7F...
Tams Foe, right?
As you could see, it loves Flowing Hellfire later in, so this is a simple part to get around(Simple does NOT mean easy), boost your MND and FIR Affinty by a good amount each. Try 150+ for FIR Affinity, or maybe even 200+, Flowing Hellfire will be pathetic then in comparison to how it is now.
-
Alright, I suppose I'll do some level grinding. >.>
-
To be honest, 150 FIR Affinty should be fine for quite a while. You have seen first hand what it that boss can do, so you know when you stand a good chance. That boss is one of the first roadblocks that makes you actually struggle.
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The game crashes for me when opening.. D:
I see a bit of the logo and the music starts and it just randomly goes away.
I have Japanese uni code and stuff so it can't be that. ;A;
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Any tips for the new F12 boss that shows up where the old one was? I'm aware it's a really, really long fight. I have everyone else up until the first F14 girl.
Also, I saw someone playing v2.06 in English, but i could've sworn someone here said the patch only works for v2.04. Was there a new one released, or am I just imagining things?
The game crashes for me when opening.. D:
I see a bit of the logo and the music starts and it just randomly goes away.
I have Japanese uni code and stuff so it can't be that. ;A;
Do you have a Nvidia graphics card by any chance? If so, you'll need to roll back the drivers.
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Any tips for the new F12 boss that shows up where the old one was? I'm aware it's a really, really long fight. I have everyone else up until the first F14 girl.
Use Ran, so you can buff up the attack power of girls hiding in the back, because of whateverthehell it was that drops your attacking stats. You'll want Marisa to be sitting in the back with a full Master Spark near the end, because once she uses Ressurection... yeahhh..
Oh, I seem to remember Mokou being pretty vulneurable to stat debuffs.
If you can't handle her, just come back at a later time. Your defenses will be higher and you won't be taking nearly as much damage, and honestly, I haven't seen a whole lot of people using her (She's a decent damage dealer but she's not really exceptional in any area nor does she do anything new), so it's not like you want to feel like you're in a rush to recruit her or anything
-
Use Ran, so you can buff up the attack power of girls hiding in the back, because of whateverthehell it was that drops your attacking stats. You'll want Marisa to be sitting in the back with a full Master Spark near the end, because once she uses Ressurection... yeahhh..
Oh, I seem to remember Mokou being pretty vulneurable to stat debuffs.
If you can't handle her, just come back at a later time. Your defenses will be higher and you won't be taking nearly as much damage, and honestly, I haven't seen a whole lot of people using her (She's a decent damage dealer but she's not really exceptional in any area nor does she do anything new), so it's not like you want to feel like you're in a rush to recruit her or anything
Meh, pretty much what I've been doing. She may not bring much new to the table, but her well-roundedness and durability for a nuker would certainly be nice to have. Regardless, I'm intending to get every character, so I'm not going to be skipping her. Especially considering she's one of my favorites.
It's Tsuki no Iwakasa's Curse that debuffs, by the way. And I'm pretty sure she's fairly resistant to debuffs and ailments of just about any sort, sans poison).
EDIT: Nevermind, she's immune to poison apparently.
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Do you have a Nvidia graphics card by any chance? If so, you'll need to roll back the drivers.
I have nvidea drivers that are up to date. No problems here.
Anyway I had the same problem when I was first trying to get the game to work. I honestly don't remember how I fixed it other than using applocale, installing the language packs, and all that. Which the guy said he did. Might have been the font/dll thing too, I really don't remember.
Anyway I'm just saying if your driver rollback thing doesn't work, despair isn't in order yet! >=P
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She is a tough on for sure, and it's unlikly you can beat her when she is first available. If anything, head back to 14F and grind for about 3-5 levels, then try again. What level is your Reimu?
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She is a tough on for sure, and it's unlikly you can beat her when she is first available. If anything, head back to 14F and grind for about 3-5 levels, then try again. What level is your Reimu?
Reimu's at 59. I know I'm slightly underleveled for the fight, but after figuring out how to keep her from spamming Tsuki no Iwakasa's Curse
I can see it's still a very doable fight.
I got her to use Resurrection
on my last two attempts, but the first time my party got nuked when Tenshi
had an empty active gauge, and the boss's auto-regen got about five turns, so Master Spark didn't take her out like it should've. I could've actually won that time if I had switched Patchy in after that instead of expecting to be able to have my living wall survive another turn.
That said, after fooling around with my team I've discovered Chen is amazing for this fight.
EDIT: Okay, I keep losing after she uses Resurrection
now. I can get off a Master Spark, but anyone else I can switch in either doesn't move soon enough or hit hard enough before getting blown up.
EDIT2: Between paralysis, speed debuffs, and the retarded speed this boss spams at, this (http://i39.tinypic.com/28heef4.png) went on for about 10 minutes (14F related). I couldn't stop laughing.
EDIT3: Patching to v2.06 for the fight now. Nitori's
significant buff should help unbelievably.
-
Anyone know where to find
Tenshi v2
? I've looked at all the red locations on 10F where bosses should be, and I can't find her. Only other thing the JP wiki says about her location is "south of the 9f stairs" (i think, anyways) and I've explored pretty much the entire bottom half of the map with no luck.
-
It's been a while since I fought the v2 bosses myself, but if I understand the map on the Japanese wiki correctly,
Tenshi
would be the red dot in C4 on 10F, so you should be able to find her by just going south from the stairs and then turning west and north at the first opportunities. I assume that what it means by "9F stairs" is the stairs leading down to 9F.
In other news,I started a new game file some days ago to break up the monotony of grinding for 30F a bit. It really gives you a sense of accomplishment seeing just how weak your team was at the beginning, after being used to dealing more than one million damage with a single attack...
-
I hope you used 1.06 and started a NG+ so you can enjoy a new party. Kinda sucks having to wait for half the game to be over to use half the cast, especially since they generally are underpowered instead of op for early game due to poor "cheap" spell selection.
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...so you don't need to beat the true final boss before you can start a new game +?
-
Here (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php?topic=5049.msg262237#msg262237) is a NG+ save file.
-
:D
So how exactly does it work? Do I just rename the folder to save[number] and place it in my saves folder?
-
That's right. I think you only get characters. No carryover of items or skill points.
-
Now the game just crashes when I get to the load game screen D:
-
Better ask someone that used it. I only fixed the stats.
-
I don't remember getting any crash bugs. I'll check it out now.
update: You have to rename the file to save 1 (or 2 or 3 if you prefer) silly. Delete the "- ng+"
-
I did.
-
I did.
Is there a space in the filename that you missed?
Is there a save 1 file INSIDE the save 1 file? because of the way you unzipped it? (sounds stupid, just check in case >=P).
I just tried it and it works for me, I re-named the file to something other than save1-save3 and I had the same problem (crash at load screen).
Also, try backing up your save file, making a blank new one, and putting it in there.
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Is there a save 1 file INSIDE the save 1 file? because of the way you unzipped it? (sounds stupid, just check in case >=P).
[insert okuufacepalm.jpg here]
Works perfectly now. Thank you.
-
Err, what's up with everyone calling Utusho Okuu these days? did I miss something?
-
I am fairly certain that the nickname originates from SA itself, but I can't remember actually seeing it ingame... Perhaps Koishi uses it? I haven't unlocked the Extra stage...
And I usually call her Utsuho, but Okuu is faster to type when saving an image.
[/offtopic]
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Still playing this game off and on here. Been getting into a grinding mood as of late by spiking 27F mobs. No complaints about getting extra Gurthangs for use on
Flandre's Laveatein spiking frenzies
, that's for sure.
Reimu is at lv331 right now, but that should be another 20-25 levels higher at least currently and will be going higher still I haven't felt like allocating gained xps for my main team of 12 for awhile.
Been spamming the millions and millions of skill points I've been getting to get at least 4-6 people in a good position to handle a large portion of the 30F mobs.
Having a Remilia with lv300 ATK, lv200 HP, DEF, and MND, and lv70 for all resists is pretty awesome I must say.
I suppose those v2 bloodstained seal bosses on 21F could be looked at too when I'm all said and done with my 27F grinding.
Current team...
Reimu
Remilia
Marisa
Rinnosuke
Flandre
Sikieiki
Mystia
Utsuho
Ran
Yuugi
Sanae
Keine
BTW...oh my god Chen V3 is a monster. That is all.
-
So i started a new game+, and after beating Chen her level reset to 1.
...is this normal?
-
In 2.04; yes.
-
In 2.04; yes.
So it won't happen if I play in 2.06?
-
Yyyyyep. Well, it shouldn't.
-
Yyyyyep. Well, it shouldn't.
Shouldn't. Well, I'll test it on Meiling just to be sure.
-
I have had it up to here (Hand is 7'4" off ground) with this not patching correctly (Been trying for three weeks). When I try to run the patch, it keeps saying some crap like "source file too short: xd3_internal"
The game shows a logo, and the title. It runs in Japanese just fine, but I don't understand Japanese.
It is 2.04b, and the stupid patch isn't working.
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BTW...oh my god Chen V3 is a monster. That is all.
What, she only hits about as hard as Yuugi, while moving as often as Orin spamming catwalk.
I have had it up to here (Hand is 7'4" off ground) with this not patching correctly (Been trying for three weeks). When I try to run the patch, it keeps saying some crap like "source file too short: xd3_internal"
The game shows a logo, and the title. It runs in Japanese just fine, but I don't understand Japanese.
It is 2.04b, and the stupid patch isn't working.
Hmm, I don't remember 2.04 having a B personally. Sorry I don't know what's up. I know the patching process probably worked given that it runs in Japanese, but it's possible it didn't go perfectly. Did you use applocale to run the patches (not the actual game, the patches)? Anybody know what file it patches anyway? Maybe someone can just upload that one file?
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Some img.dxa and img2.dxa. I saw 2.04b in Japanese, but after trying the patch again, it's gone. I think. Now, I don't even get the logo and the title. Just music, a black screen, and after a few seconds,
NEW GAME
LOAD GAME
QUIT
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Some img.dxa and img2.dxa. I saw 2.04b in Japanese, but after trying the patch again, it's gone. I think. Now, I don't even get the logo and the title. Just music, a black screen, and after a few seconds,
NEW GAME
LOAD GAME
QUIT
I used to get that when I first started trying to play. I forget what the solution was. Something basic like get ___ font or run using applocale. The troubleshooting page on the wiki mentions it I think.
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Shouldn't. Well, I'll test it on Meiling just to be sure.
Okay, this works. Thanks Baity. :V
Also, I discovered that bosses on the early floors have what is probably zero resistance to the instant death status ailment. These have been some hilarious boss fights.
I used to get that when I first started trying to play. I forget what the solution was. Something basic like get ___ font or run using applocale. The troubleshooting page on the wiki mentions it I think.
This is what I had to roll back my drivers for. It's apparently a problem with some Nvidia graphics cards.
...though, after rolling them back once I updated them again and it worked fine. Not really sure what's up with that.
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Some img.dxa and img2.dxa. I saw 2.04b in Japanese, but after trying the patch again, it's gone. I think. Now, I don't even get the logo and the title. Just music, a black screen, and after a few seconds,
NEW GAME
LOAD GAME
QUIT
If this happens, check the path that Touhou Labyrinth is stored in. If any of the folders have japanese characters in them, you need to rename them to not include them. This doesn't affect everyone, but it's a common problem.
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Nope.
..GREAT I BROKE THE JAPANESE COPY TOO.
Logo- Title- New Game- Black Screen- Freeze
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Nope.
..GREAT I BROKE THE JAPANESE COPY TOO.
Logo- Title- New Game- Black Screen- Freeze
That's a good thing, because all of the problems I could have think of should have occured regardless of the english patch.
Honestly I think the order of which you installed the game, plus disk, patches, or lack of applocales on all of the above, etc, etc is the most likely cause.. I generally have a hard time properly installing patches with these games myself because those weird Japanese patch programs seem kinda moody to me.
-
0.50 > 2.04 > ePat (Could not patch img.dxa/img2.dxa; source file too short: XD3_INTERNAL) > Run > Failure
What are applocales?
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0.50 > 2.04 > ePat (Could not patch img.dxa/img2.dxa; source file too short: XD3_INTERNAL) > Run > Failure
What are applocales?
Something every Touhou fan should know. It's possible to run many games without it, but good god does it make it so much easier to use it, check here for details:
http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php?topic=25.0
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After having been away for a while I decided to pick this game back up again. Beat the F18 boss surprisingly easily (and I pretty much went from F16's boss to F18's boss with relatively little grind for the random mobs in-between).
I made it all the way to the final boss, but before I get into that there's something I want to know about one of the F19 minibosses. Specifically, regarding Cosmic, the one who uses Strengthening Jutsu and instakills a 100% MND-buffed Tenshi with Either Flare after it.
I was basically down to Rinnosuke, Orin, and Marisa, with Marisa in reserve
and won purely because I attempted (and succeeded) to beat the dude in a damage race. With a boss like that I'm confident there's some kind of trick to him, because the way I won was more or less me lucking out and him never using Either Flare despite spamming his self-buff. The fact this is highly annoying, yet nobody complained about him before in this or any of the earlier topics raises eyebrows. If he required luck like that in order to beat there'd be a lot more complaining about him than there is.
Regarding the final boss... Well, Reimu is level 124 and I almost won, so I know strategy is the issue more than anything. Here's what I have so far:
Team:
Tenshi (tank)
Yukari (tank and barrier)
Meiling (Tank and status cure/minor healing)
Rinnosuke (Semi-tank and physical + composite nuker)
Reimu (healing + barrier)
Ran (team buffer)
Marisa (magic nuke)
Chen (physical spam)
Patchouli (magical nuke)
Orin (physical and composite nuker)
Sanae (healer, buffer, and status restore)
Nirori (physical nuke)
My general strategy was opening with Tenshi-Yukari-Reimu-Ran, with Reimu and Yukari bringing buffs to full and Ran buffing the attack of everyone in reserve. Once I got a decent amount of offense on I started bringing out my attackers and single-targetted the final boss until she called out the first bit. I remembred reading that the bits can't die until they're all out, so I then focused on multi-attacks to just force the other two out. Once they were all out I focused on multi-hitting them all to wear them all down somewhat evenly to try and kill them all at once like I had done with the F12 boss fight. Left one died first and the right one used Scurge to kill Tenshi. I then focused my fire on it and it went down. The top one and final boss then began spamming Destroy Magic and Djinn Storm every other turn, rendering victory impossible.
Since leaving the top bit last is obviously a bad idea, which one would be better to go after last? Or was my "weaken them all together" strategy reliable? And what should I watch out for once they're all gone?
Oh, and before I forget... I missed someone. Specifically, Suika, because I did not find all of the shards. However, rechecking all the floors I seriously cannot find any that I missed. I must be missing something, but I can't tell which... Is there a way to tell which one is missing so I know which to look for?
Obviously this isn't the most pressing matter right now, but since I want to access the plus disk I'll need to get her eventually.
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I've qq'd about cosmic plenty of times, and called it the most luck-based fight in the game. Of course you can use strategy by equipping everyone with mad MYS resist, and using only high-mnd people. Might even help to have someone like patchy at the very front instead of the rear (she makes a great mnd tank after all). But In any case, it's still heavily luck dependent on how much it decides to cast ether flare after a magic jitsu.
Leaving the top alive for the final boss isn't actually as bad a strategy as you may think. Because after all 3 are dead the boss is perfectly capable of casting destroy magic and djinn storm too >=P. In any case I kill it first because I hate hazard toxin. Then I kill the right one, then left last. Getting all 3 down safely isn't really very challenging compared to the entire fight IMO though. But it's possible the boss is easy afterwards if it doesn't buff itself often enough and/or doesn't use big nasty spells like djinn storm or hyperdimensional flying object (kinda like cosmic's ether flare. Not too terrible by itself, but after that buff, good lord, kiss at least 2 people goodbye).
There is no easy way to find lost events that I know of, sorry. Did you find the secret "floor" that has the 2nd bloodstained seal boss on floor 5/6/7 (I forget the exact floor) though?
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I've qq'd about cosmic plenty of times, and called it the most luck-based fight in the game. Of course you can use strategy by equipping everyone with mad MYS resist, and using only high-mnd people. Might even help to have someone like patchy at the very front instead of the rear (she makes a great mnd tank after all). But In any case, it's still heavily luck dependent on how much it decides to cast ether flare after a magic jitsu.
And here I thought he was highly vulnerable to DTH or something and I just never noticed due to my lack of statuse inflicting. >:
Leaving the top alive for the final boss isn't actually as bad a strategy as you may think. Because after all 3 are dead the boss is perfectly capable of casting destroy magic and djinn storm too >=P.
Yeah, but when the remaining two alternate between those exact two skills with very few legitimate attacks it's kinda impossible for me to do anything about it... Sure, they aren't doing legit damage that often, but they don't have to since my buffs quickly start to run low and I lack any way to recast them...
There is no easy way to find lost events that I know of, sorry. Did you find the secret "floor" that has the 2nd bloodstained seal boss on floor 5/6/7 (I forget the exact floor) though?
I haven't looked at any bloodstained seal bosses, yet. Would it be a good idea to do so in preparation for the final boss? I know at least the first one has a reccomended level below the final boss's reccomended level (though I'm a tad below that as it is...), but I'm not sure about anything past that.
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I never bothered to check out the bloodstained seal bosses until after the final boss. But the location of the second one is in an area that is kind of out of the way. I'm wondering if you even found that area. Because if you haven't, rather than asking for helping finding "I don't know which one of the events related to ____" you can simply look for "bloodstained boss 2" >=).
Assuming there is even a shard there, I honestly don't remember, I know there was some kind of event related to a joinable character there, just not sure if it was the one you need.
There might also be one in that stupid "binary" teleport floor, make sure you use the wiki to see if you explored it all. Also on floor 7, make sure you found all the island thingies there. I seem to recall the 4 in the middle, and the bottom right rectangle-headed cross thing were the hardest to find.
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The area with seal number 2 has a frozen frog, not a jar shard.
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The area with seal number 2 has a frozen frog, not a jar shard.
You sure? I remember it being a jar shard.
Basically, there was a bunch of switches you should have found while exploring F5 & F6, I think it was; if you tripped them all, a formerly dead-end teleporter sequence on F5 will lead you to a staircase that takes you to the center of F6. There's stuff there. If not...
Shards are on 3F, 6F, 7F, 9F, 11F, 12F
She herself is on 14F. Try going and talking to her twice regardless, before searching for the shards. You might be surprised - she won't join you the first time you talk to her even if you already got all of the shards, but if you talk to her again after that, she'll join.
Also yes, you should definitely be able to take down the first Bloodstained Seal boss before the final boss.
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I shouldn't have tried a new game+ before completing the actual game. Certain characters (specifically from floors 15, 16, 20, and 21) are making me wish I could have them on my current save file with their unbridled awesomeness.
Then again, I'm on floor 15 on that, so I'm almost there.
Which reminds me...is there a way to get Eirin
and Yuyuko
caught up in level with the rest of the team? They're a good 10-13 levels behind and it completely destroys their usability.
-
Unfortunately, that's the way things are; they're only going to get further and further behind because they actually take quite a lot more experience to level up when compared to most characters. So unless you want to put all your other characters into reserve (which in terms of time is very counter-productive) you'll just have to make do with the lower levels. Their generally higher attributes should make up for most of the differences though.
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Unfortunately, that's the way things are; they're only going to get further and further behind because they actually take quite a lot more experience to level up when compared to most characters. So unless you want to put all your other characters into reserve (which in terms of time is very counter-productive) you'll just have to make do with the lower levels. Their generally higher attributes should make up for most of the differences though.
Unfortunately, that's what I was afraid of. They're a whole 1000-1500 MAG behind the other nukers, so unless their growths are considerably better than I expect I have a feeling I'm going to remain disappointed.
-
And that's what we call balance
-
Basically, there was a bunch of switches you should have found while exploring F5 & F6, I think it was; if you tripped them all, a formerly dead-end teleporter sequence on F5 will lead you to a staircase that takes you to the center of F6. There's stuff there.
Never knew there was a center area in F6. I guess I'll have to take a closer look, then...
Shards are on 3F, 6F, 7F, 9F, 11F, 12F
She herself is on 14F. Try going and talking to her twice regardless, before searching for the shards. You might be surprised - she won't join you the first time you talk to her even if you already got all of the shards, but if you talk to her again after that, she'll join.
Er, I'm not new to this game. I'm well-aware of where the shards are and what she takes in order to join. My confusion was around the fact I couldn't locate that last shard despite none of the maps having any extra event markers... I didn't know F6 had an area in the center though, so I guess I now know where my next goal is.
And I guess while we're here.... Anyone else notice youtube videos of this game tend to have weird party setups? I notice a lot of videos have people like Remilia and Sakuya in the last two rows with people like Chen and Patchouli in the first two. It gets less common for the later boss fights, but this frequently occurs as far into the game as the F12 boss fight. I also find it kinda amusing people here keep talking about how crap characters like Sakuya and Youmu are, but plenty of videos involving the plus disk (usually involving V2/3 bosses) usually have them on the team.
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And I guess while we're here.... Anyone else notice youtube videos of this game tend to have weird party setups? I notice a lot of videos have people like Remilia and Sakuya in the last two rows with people like Chen and Patchouli in the first two. It gets less common for the later boss fights, but this frequently occurs as far into the game as the F12 boss fight. I also find it kinda amusing people here keep talking about how crap characters like Sakuya and Youmu are, but plenty of videos involving the plus disk (usually involving V2/3 bosses) usually have them on the team.
I haven't seen anything that extreme, but almost every time someone switches a party member in a Youtube vid I can't help but think "Wait, why the hell are they putting her there!?" (i.e. Minoriko in slot 2 against a boss with fire/ice attacks that frequently hit the first two slots).
I'm thinking I'll have to be the guy that tries to use Chen, Rin
, Sakuya, and Keine
and tries to spam Flight of Itaden and Cat Walk
with 100% attack and speed buffs, because I'm honestly disappointed I haven't seen that lineup yet. :V
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I haven't seen anything that extreme, but almost every time someone switches a party member in a Youtube vid I can't help but think "Wait, why the hell are they putting her there!?" (i.e. Minoriko in slot 2 against a boss with fire/ice attacks that frequently hit the first two slots).
I'm thinking I'll have to be the guy that tries to use Chen, Rin
, Sakuya, and Keine
and tries to spam Flight of Itaden and Cat Walk
with 100% attack and speed buffs, because I'm honestly disappointed I haven't seen that lineup yet. :V
Aya is a better speed buffer than sakuya, even for buffing the whole party. aya can buff all 4 slots with her single cast (and spend less sp doing so) in the time sakuya can use lunar clock. In addition, when you switch someone out, aya only has to buff that one person, Sakuya has to do the entire party buff again .=P.
Orin's cat walk is bad, like.. really bad, even when fully buffed it's only about as good as chen's unbuffed. As for chen, not exactly a good combo with keine, because chen can buff herself better than keine can buff her.
Play whatever team you like for fun, I'm just saying that the reason why you haven't seen that lineup isn't really because "nobody thought about it" as much as it being kinda counter-productive in general.
As for your earlier comments regarding Yuyu and Eirin
. The former has good mnd growth regardless of level, but a nuker she is not. Her spells and her mag growth are intentionally gimp IMO because of the death effects, and delay effects (which are completely unique to her btw). I personally am using her on my 2nd playthru, and I was hoping that despite her mediocre mag growth (and her bad level growth), that her final spell would own due to its AMAZING spell formula (seriously, it's almost master spark good). But as it turns out, it's really only about equally powerful as other particularly strong nukes, which isn't really good enough since it costs a FREAKIN ARM AND LEG.
The second character is even worse at nuking. However she has a heal, and she has excellent tanking stats. Don't really use her as a nuker, or a healer (her heal is just too slow to rely on as a steady form of recovery), use her as a secondary tank IMO (slot 2 tank, you can try 1 I guess but that might be pretty risky). I personally like to use Remi as a slot two tank, but sometimes I need to switch her out, so then you know who might be a good temporary replacement.
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Aya is a better speed buffer than sakuya, even for buffing the whole party. aya can buff all 4 slots with her single cast (and spend less sp doing so) in the time sakuya can use lunar clock. In addition, when you switch someone out, aya only has to buff that one person, Sakuya has to do the entire party buff again .=P.
Orin's cat walk is bad, like.. really bad, even when fully buffed it's only about as good as chen's unbuffed. As for chen, not exactly a good combo with keine, because chen can buff herself better than keine can buff her.
In case you weren't aware, that was purely in jest.
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In case you weren't aware, that was purely in jest.
....Ok so I reread that and I have to state that you should have added a DUH >=P.
sorry I'm really absent minded atm.
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....Ok so I reread that and I have to state that you should have added a DUH >=P.
sorry I'm really absent minded atm.
It's fine, lol.
I wonder how well Flandre
and Minoriko can tank against Cirno.[/s]
More seriously, is it recommended to use the 18F character? The stats look good, until you look at status resistance, TP, SP recovery, and leveling speed.
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More seriously, is it recommended to use the 18F character? The stats look good, until you look at status resistance, TP, SP recovery, and leveling speed.
I highly reccomend it, 18F has a Super-Buff that is absolutly beautiful. Status Resist isn't going to get 18F killed with proper equips, the TP can be fixed through Skill Points and SP Recovery... SP shouldn't be much of a problem to begin with. Leveling Speed is a rather minor downside. Reimu Lv 140, 18F Lv 129-133(somewhere around that), so it's not all that bad. A Destiny Stone and a Star of Elendil can cover up those downsides rather well.
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That character is automatically bad because of cooties.
Seriously though, the poor level growth wont diminish how amazing their tanking stats are, but it does limit their nuking potential to just decent. The buff is obviously amazing, but I personally don't like its side affect at all, but even still it's a good move for those focus/enrage/whatever type bosses (which there are a lot of from now on).
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Who wants to do a rebalanced NG+? All character's base stats and level up ratings can be hacked. The only thing I can't change is their spell costs and sprites. If someone can give me the figures, I'll do all the editing (when I have time).
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Who wants to do a rebalanced NG+? All character's base stats and level up ratings can be hacked. The only thing I can't change is their spell costs and sprites. If someone can give me the figures, I'll do all the editing (when I have time).
...Rebalanced?
...This is an interesting suggestion. I kind of have to wonder what kinds of changes would be necessary to balance things out, or what things aren't balanced already.
I assume you can't hack a spell's damage formula either of course. It's all just their base stats and level up speeds?
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I can adjust their:
base stats, resistances and affinities
recovery rate
level up rating for the char and their stats
upgrade rating for stat, resistance and affinity purchases
You can turn Chen into a Meiling character while keeping her spell set basically.
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Really? Wow. I thought most of that data would've stayed in the stable data as opposed to being present in the save files @_@
I'll have to think about this. Just off the top of my head, for major changes...
Sakuya vs Aya: Give Sakuya better defensive stats and SPD (so she can nearly match Aya even when they're both buffed) but keep her ATK low; meanwhile, drop Aya's defensive stats a bit but raise her ATK a tiny bit. Separates them a bit more in use.
Minoriko vs Sanae: Boost Minoriko's MND and affinities a bit, but give Sanae better physical tanking abilities and weaker MND, to help separate them a bit more. Possibly increase Sanae's SPD a bit.
Rumia: Is there any way to even make her more useful in general without making Moonlight Ray broken as hell? That's a damn good damage formula for a 32 MP spell afterall. Or maybe -do- make her MAG higher so that she's powerful enough to be worth using!?
Wriggle: Boost her HP/DEF so that she can survive out on the field for a long time, and she can make a good off-tank. Iku could subscribe to this too by boosting HP and MND. That way, Iku could function well as an anti-mage, dropping their already low defenses.
Nitori: Boost her DEF/MND so that her Optical Camoflauge becomes a good self-buff, and ATK for Megawatt?
Reisen: She needs a MAG and Level Up Speed boost. Possibly better ailment resistances. Something needs to change here. Maybe a much better speed, and let her become a speedy Debuffer?
Tenshi: I'd like to see her HP drop even a bit lower, but in return, gain actual attack power. As is, yes, she can tank like a beast, but she can't even do anything once she's out there being immortal.
But, yeah. I think for creating something more balanced, it's more that the bad/lesser characters need to become able to match up to the more powerful ones in some way. Because dropping the strength of the more powerful ones would be... oww.
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All the adjustable data is on the wiki you've got going. Give me the final set of what you want the stauff changed to and I'll get around to it.
Do note: Backup your other saves because it may bork your game.
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Can rebalancing spell card formulas be hacked, too? <-- disregard this
I just skimmed through this and I'm actually quite interested in helping the rebalancing process. I've played this game too much (ahem beating 30F boss 100 times :V) so >_>
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Alriiiiight. I beat the F5 boss after using poison and having Meiling tank her main attack with Minoriko (who was buffed with superspeed)...
I seriously don't know how much poison affected the fight, though. I'm pretty sure it's what allowed me to reduce the boss's HP after the KILL WHOEVER IS ON THE LEFT final phase began. Although Patchouli was the only one who managed to deal above 3000 damage, though I forgot about Marisa completely.
Oh, and she got paralyzed twice.
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15F boss is giving me loads of trouble; mostly due to the fact that the two elements she's resistant to happen to be the two I use the most. I'm not really sure who I should use, or even what to try for a strategy (paralysis seemed to work the best, but
Suwako
has a MYS element stun that does terrible damage, whereas her other single target attack can hit for 50k easy).
I've got every character except the last two pre-plus disc (and obviously 15F).
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Rebalance? I totally approve of this and will submit some suggestions!
Chen: Give her something to make up for her giant EVA stat that does nothing. Maybe make her DEF more average rather than making it paper.
Sakuya: I'm gonna agree with Garlyle here. Sakuya could use some better defensive stats, maybe even give her some better SP growth too.
Rumia: Poor Rumia. She has a lot of good things about her but she just can't perform any of those things very well. I'd say up her MAG a bit so that her MND piercing can actually be put to use. She could also probably use a small MND buff.
Wriggle: Can anyone decide if you're useful or not? I'd say give her more DEF since she is supposed to be an ATK based character, her main weakness is that she can't survive through much. Nobody really knows how effective PSN is either...
Iku: Buff that HP a bit since she is supposed to be one of the beefier mages in the game.
Sanae/Minoriko: She could use a boost to her HP and/or SP to make her a beefier alternative to Minoriko. Minoriko could keep her high MND growth and possibly get a small boost in her elemental affinities. This would make the choice between the two a bit more distinctive. Sanae would be beefier with more attack capabilities while Minoriko would have the better healing and defensive tank capabilities.
Nitori: Dear lord poor Nitori. She could use a small boost to all of her stats honestly. Emphasis on ATK and DEF since her spells pull from her pitiful ATK rating and she has a buff for her pitiful DEF. I could also see her having higher PAR resist.
Reisen: Give this poor bunny a MAG and SPD boost. Her capabilities as a debuffer go to waste because her stats are so pitiful.
My experience beyond these characters is rather limited so... yeah. Even still I might not have any idea what I'm talking about. I just know these people in particular could use a bit of balancing.
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I tried using Wriggle's super poison on the giant Pressure enemies on floor six. I know they have maybe 7000~ health and the wiki says they're susceptible to poison, but I'm assuming that the rate of poison damage is the same... Or maybe it's based on Wriggle's level, which is... 28 right now?
Wriggle poisoned the Pressure, 800~ damage.
Wriggle acts again, Unseasonable Butterfly Storm. 1400~ damage.
Chen uses a regular attack promptly after Wriggle. 700~ damage.
Pressure = dead.
So... I'm going to say that the poison did around 3500-4500 damage in the time that it takes for Wriggle to act again. So, yeah. I don't know how it works on other enemies, though, and if poison resistance affects the DPS.
(BTW, I stuffed 14 levels of HP into Wriggle, and she has at least 1200 HP. If people could raise her subpar defensive stats, she might be able to tank through a hit of random stuff.)
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Did anybody else's patch come with instructions or something?
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I'm not going to really offer everything I think needs changing. But I think buffing Rumia's mag could result in some really op moonlight rays. I think upgrading her defenses would make her more attractive without making her op.
Sakuya is weak, but buffing her attack can result in the above like rumia. Her problem is her formulas have terrible atk - enemy def ratios. But the multiplier afterwards is high (killing doll I mean). which means that should you buff her attack to make killing doll a viable boss dpser, on targets with low def, she's going to rival Flan's starbrow break, or if you're simply over level.
In general I think there should be more options for tanks. China and Tenshi
are your only "real" choices for first slot tanks. Other characters can do it sometimes, but it's going to either be simply shooting yourself in the foot to do so, or it's an exceptional case like a boss who has no physical attacks, or one with defense ignoring attacks.
Chen is a pretty good character overall, despite her evasion being missing, I think buffing her would make her pretty op, which some people feel she is already.
I think most of the balance issues of the game lie in the formulas moreso than the base stats >=(. Aside from the tank issue that is.
Though...
being able to modify the formulas might not be an issue now that I think of it (dun dun dun)... to be continued....
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Been following this thread a while (stumbling on here by chance got me hooked on LoT :P) and I had a few ideas on rebalancing. I'll organize some of what came up with into usable numbers.
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The main issue with Rumia is that NEET girl outclasses her in almost every way once you get her in terms of damage output. Making Rumia slightly more tanky might work, though, as it means keeping her around is less of a hassle, and perhaps, if possible, rework formulas. >_>
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I'm only doing the screwing around in Cheat Engine you know. I'm not good enough to go redoing the game all fancy.
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I'm only doing the screwing around in Cheat Engine you know. I'm not good enough to go redoing the game all fancy.
Well I wasn't planning on inflicting spell alterations on you unless you were willing to once I found out how (if I will, been busy with tpw to worry about this for the moment)
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I'm only doing the screwing around in Cheat Engine you know. I'm not good enough to go redoing the game all fancy.
If you need help with that let me know. :P
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For character buffing, Chen needs slightly better ATK, she can fall behind good ATK growth chars like Remi quickly. Sakuya would need either a tad more ATK, or a good chunk more SP, and likely a bit more DEF/MND. Super-Tank could use a bit more HP or ATK.
Sikieiki could stand to have a tad more DEF, I'm certain my Flandre has more DEF, with similar SKP Lvls.
Nitori definately needs more ATK and DEF, nothing major is needed in either, but it IS needed. HP Tank could stand to have either more ATK, or more DEF/MND, once again, not much is needed.
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Quick question: In v2.06 how do you disable music/spell animations?
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In the list of stuff from the 2.06 download, look for an exe or w/e called config. It's in their.
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In the list of stuff from the 2.06 download, look for an exe or w/e called config. It's in their.
Wow, that's considerably more elaborate than I expected.
Thanks.
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I love how it also has Sound test in it :V
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Has anyone considered doing some type of run with a single 4-girl team based on some kind of theme? Like Team 9 or Team SDM or something. I would if it wouldn't involve hella grinding, hella dungeon resets, and hella time. Also because I've still yet to actually complete the game once. Mmm.
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Like Reimu, Marisa, Alice and
Yuka
? That could work... maybe...
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4 girl team is impossible. You simply don't have enough answers to deal with the enemies. Rather do a run with none of the optionals.
Btw, when you do NG+ with all the chars available from the start, do you still need to recruit the ones required for story, e.g. Chen and Cirno?
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4 girl team is impossible. You simply don't have enough answers to deal with the enemies. Rather do a run with none of the optionals.
Btw, when you do NG+ with all the chars available from the start, do you still need to recruit the ones required for story, e.g. Chen and Cirno?
Don't know, it's fun to anyway for the boss fight though.
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4 girl team is impossible. You simply don't have enough answers to deal with the enemies. Rather do a run with none of the optionals.
It's possible.
Unrealistically possible, as I'd wager to have enough "answers" you'd need levels well over 7000. :s
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is there any way you can change the fonts for this game? i cant stand looking at them.
where can i DL patch 2.06? not 2.06B
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is there any way you can change the fonts for this game? i cant stand looking at them.
where can i DL patch 2.06? not 2.06B
dunno bout the fonts but I'm pretty sure 2.06b is the only 2.06.
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I guess that you can't hack the game so that Evasion works, huh? I mean, what causes EVA not to work anyway?
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I guess that you can't hack the game so that Evasion works, huh? I mean, what causes EVA not to work anyway?
Didn't the creators break the formula or something?
Personally I almost like knowing every single attack will hit. Makes it a bit easier to plan healing/nuking around.
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Bosses who charge up and 1shot nuke you at 20% health or whatever would be extra "fun" with evasion. Pretty sure the developers figured out it would be a dumb mechanic, especially due to the lack of a hit rating.
I think a better solution would to simply increase all defensive stats by a (very small) percentage based on evasion, both for the player and the enemies.
Also I was having a hard time sleeping last night, and decided to theorycraft in my head the optimum number of selfbuff+attacks for chen and Remi. Against a target with no defense, it's 1 buff, then 4 attacks, repeat. Naturally, the more defense the target has, the more rewarding it is to buff more often. I'll theorycraft that too some other time. unless you're pressed on SP, or something. It's pretty much always counterproductive to attack more than 4 times after each self buff for those characters though. I suspect other characters with similar attack-based self-buffs also benefit from a rotation lasting 5 turns or less.
Regarding changing spell formulas, looks like it wont be an option after all >=(.
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4 girl team is impossible. You simply don't have enough answers to deal with the enemies. Rather do a run with none of the optionals.
Btw, when you do NG+ with all the chars available from the start, do you still need to recruit the ones required for story, e.g. Chen and Cirno?
I dunno about version 2.06, but if you use Pesco's file for 2.04 the game will goof up and think you've already gotten everyone. I found this out on Floor 2 when I found the way to Floor 3 without having fought or recruited Cirno yet, but my Cirno popped up and just did her thing and let us cross.
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Quick question: In v2.06 how do you disable music/spell animations?
This also breaks stuff, like side-effects of attacks. For example, 15F girl Flandre
's attacks all just turn into awesome nukes with no bad stuff, if you turn off Spell Animations.
Has anyone considered doing some type of run with a single 4-girl team based on some kind of theme? Like Team 9 or Team SDM or something. I would if it wouldn't involve hella grinding, hella dungeon resets, and hella time. Also because I've still yet to actually complete the game once. Mmm.
This would require insane grinding and wouldn't be anywhere near worth the trouble; seriously, in many cases you'd have to get to where at least one character is p.much invincible.
Doing a run using all the suckier characters (+Support characters like Reimu and a first slot tank) is viable, though; possibly within grinding levels that are actually realistically doable. I started doing it but I got to 2F and was bored (third playthrough already :V).
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4 girl team is impossible. You simply don't have enough answers to deal with the enemies. Rather do a run with none of the optionals.
Btw, when you do NG+ with all the chars available from the start, do you still need to recruit the ones required for story, e.g. Chen and Cirno?
Nope, since you already have them.
I'd still recommend it for the sake of exp and items though.
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I'd just hax in the items :V
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I'd just hax in the items :V
That works too. :V
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In basic theory or w/e, you have plenty for "answers" to enemies by having Patchy, Reimu, Marisa and Remi. ATK Nuke, MYS Nuke, SPI Nuke(ish) and Healer/buffer, Elemental Nuke. All 4 elements, an Attacker, a healer/buffer. It covers everything, so it is possilbe to build a 4-girl team that can handle all the trash the game has. Similarly you could use sumthing like...
Utsuho, Yuka, Sikieiki and Kanako.
Any team CAN work, it takes planing and know-how, but a party of Chen, Aya, Rumia and Sakuya could beat the game. Note each character and how they act. No decent healing, just high-speed(litterally) DPS and a lot of glass waiting to be shattered :P
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In basic theory or w/e, you have plenty for "answers" to enemies by having Patchy, Reimu, Marisa and Remi. ATK Nuke, MYS Nuke, SPI Nuke(ish) and Healer/buffer, Elemental Nuke. All 4 elements, an Attacker, a healer/buffer. It covers everything, so it is possilbe to build a 4-girl team that can handle all the trash the game has. Similarly you could use sumthing like... Utsuho, Yuka, Sikieiki and Kanako.
Any team CAN work, it takes planing and know-how, but a party of Chen, Aya, Rumia and Sakuya could beat the game. Note each character and how they act. No decent healing, just high-speed(litterally) DPS and a lot of glass waiting to be shattered :P
All of the so-called "balanced" combos would require a stupid boring amount of level grinding to accomplish even basic battles though. For example, with the Remi, reimu,marisa,patchy combo. Pretty much any boss with a physical attack all (arrow rain, needle parade, etc) would 1-shot marisa and Patchy until you're super ridiculous level. Remu herself isn't exactly a great choice for a 2nd slot tank, and Remi, while capable of being a 1st slot tank, probably wouldn't last very long when the only source of healing is Reimu's ho-hum size heal (ho-hum to a tank taking all the damage I mean) on a huge 100% delay.
The viability of playing such a game is just ridiculous. Nobody in their right mind would do it. I honestly think even beating winner 100 times would be less tedious, and certainly more fun since you at least have the ability to enjoy the full cast at your leisure.
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Wasn't the initial condition that 4 girls had to be linked by some theme?
My any 4 team Meiling, Flandre, Sanae, Patchy
Slow like a tank and hits just as hard.
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Wasn't the initial condition that 4 girls had to be linked by some theme?
My any 4 team Meiling, Flandre, Sanae, Patchy
Slow like a tank and hits just as hard.
I don't think flan is slow, actualy I think she's a notch above average (even given her slow leveling curve). And meiling and sanae
hit about as hard as a wet noodle.
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But we don't use them for hitting. I suppose Reimu is still viable.
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But we don't use them for hitting. I suppose Reimu is still viable.
so the theme is really "tank, person who hits hard, healer cuz heals are good, and reimu because she's useful" >=P
err wait, you didn't even mention reimu.. you mean as substitution for sanae
? Still, I wouldn't exactly call that a solid enough theme to dismiss the other party-ideas for being non-themed.
I don't even know why I'm discussing this theme business anyway. I sincerely doubt anybody is ever going to 4-man the entire game and actually enjoy it and wish they never did (and it's likely anybody will at all without cheating). I think not cheating isn't in your vocabulary anyway, we know you use rollhax for monopoly. I don't think I've ever played a game where you didn't somehow get a lead long before anybody even made a single trade or decision >=P, hax.
Though I guess it's possible of you NG+ it at a decent level and use end-game equipment from the NG+. But that's obvious, you can just steal hime's save and 1-shot your way with 1 character the whole game under those terms.
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There was actually a video of Alice soloing the
Eintei Triple Boss
on YouTube a good time before NG+ even existed. I'll try and refind the video and I'll edit it in when/if I find it.
The main point being that if Alice can solo stuff, a 4-girl team can do pretty well.
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There was actually a video of Alice soloing the Eintei Triple Boss
on YouTube a good time before NG+ even existed. I'll try and refind the video and I'll edit it in when/if I find it.
The main point being that if Alice can solo stuff, a 4-girl team can do pretty well.
What was her level though? Chances are it's so high that you'd be bored outta your skull before being willing to do that (for the whole game). Not to mention that particular boss is actually pretty easy in that regard. Eiki for example would be a much better example of one difficult to solo (or 4man).
I don't mean to be a buzzkill, if you want to do this be my guest. But honestly. I hear 90% of the people who try this game have one gripe about it. and that is that it requires grinding. I find I'm one of very few people who say "actually it doesn't", to hear people suddenly decide it wont require a stupid ridiculous amount of grinding to accommodate for a self-inflicted shot in the foot is curious. Not to mention of of the cool aspects of this game is party dynamics, balance and design. Most RPGS limit you to a small party with no choice of who is in it. This one is no such game, and tha'ts quite frankly one of the features that make it awsome. Why you'd want to toss that is beyond me, but it is a game, and if you think it's fun go ahead. I remain skeptical that any of you (or anybody else) would enjoy it though >=P.
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What was her level though? Chances are it's so high that you'd be bored outta your skull before being willing to do that (for the whole game). Not to mention that particular boss is actually pretty easy in that regard. Eiki for example would be a much better example of one difficult to solo (or 4man).
Unfortunately that's the problem with SCC's(Or LCC's(Limited Character Challenge), since we're talking about a character party), they always require heavy grinding to be a ridiculously high level just to stand a chance at certain boss fights. Best example I can think of is trying to a Yuna Only No Summons challenge for FFX. If you don't know how bad the grind is there, well here's a hint: You need to get Holy on Besaid. Two words: GOOD LUCK!!
Depending how you do the LCC it could be difficult or not too bad. Doing something like "Playable Characters from the Official Series"(ZUN's works, also including IaMP, SWR, and UNL) would make it a bit too easy, since most of those characters are ones that are used because of their best features(10F Tank, HP-Tank, the Nukes, etc). Changing it up to something like "PCB Cast" would make it more difficult, but still quite fun, to an extent. You'll only have Reimu's heal to help you out and chances are you won't make it too far. That's considering you only do regular grinding plus a little extra. For a 4CC, you'll have to grind a lot just to get near beating certain bosses. Be prepared to clear your schedule.
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What was her level though? Chances are it's so high that you'd be bored outta your skull before being willing to do that (for the whole game). Not to mention that particular boss is actually pretty easy in that regard. Eiki for example would be a much better example of one difficult to solo (or 4man).
I don't mean to be a buzzkill, if you want to do this be my guest. But honestly. I hear 90% of the people who try this game have one gripe about it. and that is that it requires grinding. I find I'm one of very few people who say "actually it doesn't", to hear people suddenly decide it wont require a stupid ridiculous amount of grinding to accommodate for a self-inflicted shot in the foot is curious. Not to mention of of the cool aspects of this game is party dynamics, balance and design. Most RPGS limit you to a small party with no choice of who is in it. This one is no such game, and tha'ts quite frankly one of the features that make it awsome. Why you'd want to toss that is beyond me, but it is a game, and if you think it's fun go ahead. I remain skeptical that any of you (or anybody else) would enjoy it though >=P.
Seriously, I'm not sure where the "grinding is necessary" mentality comes from. The only bosses I ended up grinding for were Orin
because I needed to be able to get through the first five fights with a decent amount of SP and TP, and currently Yukari
because I'm apparently so underleveled that I can't survive until my first turn :ohdear:
Really though, any fight where it seems like you'd be underleveled can be solved with careful use of status ailments, buffs/debuffs, and other strategies. For example, I beat Flan at level 65 with only 3 characters really doing anything by letting my entire active party sans my tank die off at the start, then swapping in Sanae to buff Kaguya
, have her drop a nuke or two, then switch them both into the empty slots so my tank could take 0 damage from a Laveatein, rinse and repeat until win.
EDIT: Speaking of the 16F fight, I'm getting my ass kicked. I can't keep more than one attacker alive until the last form. Current lineup (which I've kind of been fooling around with):
Tenshi
Ran
Reimu
Flandre
Youmu
Suika
Sanae
Suwako
Komachi
Nitori
Aya
Kaguya
Current strategy: Have the tanks remove her buffs, either via actually removing them or through debuffs, then try to slaughter her with nature-element attacks. I've been having Ran
buff attack while Reimu buffs defense, but Aya's
been rather useless for the most part, mostly due to the fact that by the time I've got the boss debuffed and the rest of the team buffed and healed to a safe level I get Djinn Storm'd, so I might switch her out for Sakuya so I can just speed buff everyone on the first turn and be done with it.
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Here is what I reccomend doing. Early into the fight you should have
Ran out casting 12 General Gods until everyone in the back has +100% ATK and MAG buffs, then do the same with her DEF/MND buff until they are at 100% or until Ran can't cast anymore.
16F has 650,000 HP, so use your computer Calculator to count the dmg your dealing. Just before 16F has 200k HP left, bring in all you heavy hitters and go wild. If your can, try to bring them out when 16Fs turn gauge is rather empty. Suwako
can hit for 100k if your properly leveled and all that, so the 200k in time shouldn't be impossible.
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Here is what I reccomend doing. Early into the fight you should have Ran out casting 12 General Gods until everyone in the back has +100% ATK and MAG buffs, then do the same with her DEF/MND buff until they are at 100% or until Ran can't cast anymore.
16F has 650,000 HP, so use your computer Calculator to count the dmg your dealing. Just before 16F has 200k HP left, bring in all you heavy hitters and go wild. If your can, try to bring them out when 16Fs turn gauge is rather empty. Suwako
can hit for 100k if your properly leveled and all that, so the 200k in time shouldn't be impossible.
Unfortunately, pretty much my current strategy right here. I'll just grind a couple more levels then.
EDIT: Nevermind, just swapped Aya for Sakuya and completely floored her without any deaths. Between Sakuya's SP regen and her ability to buff everyone in a single turn, I was able to get speed buffs in place both before and after every Djinn Storm, and managed to skip phase 3 completely because Youmu and Suwako were able to regen and attack fast enough.
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Seriously, I'm not sure where the "grinding is necessary" mentality comes from. The only bosses I ended up grinding for were Orin
because I needed to be able to get through the first five fights with a decent amount of SP and TP, and currently Yukari
because I'm apparently so underleveled that I can't survive until my first turn :ohdear:
Protip: F16's boss is the first one most people have to grind for. If you can barely squeak by it, there's still a pretty big chance you're going to have to grind to get through F18's... and then it's another 30-40 levels past that for the final boss (not to mention all of the bonus bosses), soyeah
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There was actually a video of Alice soloing the Eintei Triple Boss
on YouTube a good time before NG+ even existed. I'll try and refind the video and I'll edit it in when/if I find it.
The main point being that if Alice can solo stuff, a 4-girl team can do pretty well.
Here's a link to that boss fight in question. Obvious do not watch warning here if you have not cleared 12F yet for spoilers on who you fight.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IgaXpQQVFTs
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Protip: F16's boss is the first one most people have to grind for. If you can barely squeak by it, there's still a pretty big chance you're going to have to grind to get through F18's... and then it's another 30-40 levels past that for the final boss (not to mention all of the bonus bosses), soyeah
Well, I made a point of doing 17F instead of just blindly running past, so hopefully that helped out. Good to see the 15F nuker still downing everything (on 17F anyway; 18F's an entirely different story) in one turn.
But yeah, like I said, merely swapping Aya out for Sakuya was enough of a change to let me beat her without anyone dying.
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Here's a link to that boss fight in question. Obvious do not watch warning here if you have not cleared 12F yet for spoilers on who you fight.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IgaXpQQVFTs
Thank you! I could never refind that. As you can see from the beginning of the video the Level Average is 63. I'm not sure how far above the normal recommended level that is but it doesn't seem so horrible...
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Thank you! I could never refind that. As you can see from the beginning of the video the Level Average is 63. I'm not sure how far above the normal recommended level that is but it doesn't seem so horrible...
That's not average level, that's max level (Chen, if he leveled everyone).
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Still, Alice definitely has participated in the most battles in that video.
But... I swear that Wriggle poison dealt at least 60000 damage to the frozen frog boss on F8, so now I'm thinking that my party might be right now:
Reimu
Marisa
Remilia
Patchouli
Youmu
Aya
Wriggle
Suwako
Yuugi
Minoriko
Komachi
Alice
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Still, Alice definitely has participated in the most battles in that video.
But... I swear that Wriggle poison dealt at least 60000 damage to the frozen frog boss on F8, so now I'm thinking that my party might be right now:
Reimu
Marisa
Remilia
Patchouli
Youmu
Aya
Wriggle
Suwako
Yuugi
Minoriko
Komachi
Alice
You'll find that your new 7F tank's ability to poison alongside other status effects will replace Wriggle pretty quickly. If you have nuke-type characters with high paralysis resistance, I'd recommend using 6F for both buffing and higher damage output than Wriggle (while the wiki says her buffs are +50% to attack and magic, it gives at least 60-75% in actuality, which is easily one of the best attack buffs in the game).
...speaking of which, she might complement Flandre
rather well. Time to go test something. :V
EDIT: Just tried it and got 72% buff to both offensive stats. Odd number, but okay.
EDIT2: Oh holy God 200k on 18F mobs, I'm so using her now.
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You'll find that your new 7F tank's ability to poison alongside other status effects will replace Wriggle pretty quickly. If you have nuke-type characters with high paralysis resistance, I'd recommend using 6F for both buffing and higher damage output than Wriggle (while the wiki says her buffs are +50% to attack and magic, it gives at least 60-75% in actuality, which is easily one of the best attack buffs in the game).
...speaking of which, she might complement Flandre
rather well. Time to go test something. :V
EDIT: Just tried it and got 72% buff to both offensive stats. Odd number, but okay.
EDIT2: Oh holy God 200k on 18F mobs, I'm so using her now.
I dunno. 7F's poisoning ability would be nice, but among other things I didn't particularly get the majority of her debuffs while fighting Suwako
or her paralysis. I mean, her 4500 freaking HP already is nice for virtually any purpose... But her damage is subpar to 70% of my team, though, even against groups, I haven't spent too much effort raising her attack.
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I dunno. 7F's poisoning ability would be nice, but among other things I didn't particularly get the majority of her debuffs while fighting Suwako
or her paralysis. I mean, her 4500 freaking HP already is nice for virtually any purpose... But her damage is subpar to 70% of my team, though, even against groups, I haven't spent too much effort raising her attack.
Her role isn't damage output, it's tank with debuff support. Though, Wriggle's damage doesn't stay up to par with the rest of the team very long. Honestly, you'll probably be replacing her after 9F.
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Her role isn't damage output, it's tank with debuff support. Though, Wriggle's damage doesn't stay up to par with the rest of the team very long. Honestly, you'll probably be replacing her after 9F.
So, then, aside from her HP and elemental resistances, what are you supposed to increase in her level ups?
Oh, and Wriggle consistently dealt 0 damage to miss frozen frog.
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HP, HP and more HP? I don't see anything else you can go with for her.
And Wriggle is awesome, don't be hatin' :<
Going to continue with my 2nd playthrough now, I'll keep you people updated
.
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HP, HP and more HP? I don't see anything else you can go with for her.
And Wriggle is awesome, don't be hatin' :<
Going to continue with my 2nd playthrough now, I'll keep you people updated
.
Yeah, HP and elemental resistances are all I put into her. Bonus points into speed, SP and attack as well, she can actually deal respectable damage with her fourth card.
I can't help it, I'm not a fan. :<
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HP, HP and more HP? I don't see anything else you can go with for her.
And Wriggle is awesome, don't be hatin' :<
Going to continue with my 2nd playthrough now, I'll keep you people updated
.
Oh, hey, someone else thinks Wriggle is awesome... Invisible, constant damage FTW!
Eh, can someone figure out how much poison damage she can do bosses compared to, say, any other type of poison? I mean, like, go and find the formula for it.
Bosses later on are probably going to be immune to it, though, aren't they?
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Oh, hey, someone else thinks Wriggle is awesome... Invisible, constant damage FTW!
Eh, can someone figure out how much poison damage she can do bosses compared to, say, any other type of poison? I mean, like, go and find the formula for it.
Bosses later on are probably going to be immune to it, though, aren't they?
I forget where but I believe that has been listedactually. Garlyle might know, he was a wriggle addict IIRC.
I never use it myself but I believe poison damage worked on most (if not all) bosses end-game.
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I never use it myself but I believe poison damage worked on most (if not all) bosses end-game.
On 18F and so far I don't recall fighting anyone that was poison-resistant (though I know the boss on this floor is).
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In One of the Touhou Labyrinth topics, I actually posted and attempted to calculate out how much damage Wriggle would do with poison, and it sure didn't appear to be too huge (At least not enough for me to consider it making up for her low damage output), but I have to give her that she's certainly not useless. She still has decent tanking ability, for one thing, so she can survive between multiple poundings with Poison. Unfortunately, her usefulness as an attacker drops massively if the target's got any poison resistance whatsoever, as poison resistance doesn't just affect the chance for poison to be afflicted, but also the strength of the poison if it does occur. But who knows... if she's working for you, go for it! I think there was at least a couple battles in the game where I took Wriggle along due to "Not sure what else to bring, might as well" and am pretty sure she added up a significant chunk of damage.
It is worth noting, however, that 7F's poison is utter crap compared to Wriggle's poison (Literally it's like a fourth of the strength or something, which is horrifically low); similarly, her PAR is pretty weak too, but it is a nice little benefit if nothing else.
Anyway
it gives at least 60-75% in actuality, which is easily one of the best attack buffs in the game).
Not really. But, with that said, for the main game it sure is one of the best. There's at least four characters I can think of that I'd rather use the attack buffs of - however, it's due to the multi-target or multi-stat nature of their buffs, and three of those only show up at the very end of the game or in the Plus Disk content. The problem is that the PAR inflicted is huge if it hits (It's the strongest PAR effect in the game, irritatingly enough). This isn't a buff you can throw around casually; you need either Meiling or another character with ailment healing, or to only use it on characters with >34 PAR resistance, because you do not want the side effect connecting. But of course, once that's met, go ahead - her ability to debuff enemy DEF sharply is also a boon to your attackers.
Basically, she'll do better the higher PAR resistance your team is sporting, and the more focused you are on physical attackers as opposed to magical ones.
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Not really. But, with that said, for the main game it sure is one of the best.
Well, that's what I meant. I wasn't necessarily giving consideration to single vs multi vs self either.
But it's also completely amazing for composite attackers, particularly Flandre
. One of those and she's unstoppable.
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The buff definitely can be useful. I still am dubious about the def debuff though. Most bosses don't actually have a huge amount of def to begin with, there is a larger percentage of high def trash than high def bosses IMO. And most bosses late game are either resistant or immune to stat debuffs. so meh.
As for buffing flandre
.. I find that buffing characters (especially flandre
) for trash is pretty overkill. Might be useful if you have a limited party selection due to tp or something but otherwise that's silly. And bosses, well, her single target nuke isn't actually composite.
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Ah crud. I'm going to have to be prepared to swap out more team members... I think I can skip out on
Nitori
, and Sanae
and Minoriko seem to be interchangeable...
But I want to know if 7F's poison will overwrite Wriggle's poison if she happens to poison the enemy after Wriggle...
EDIT: I just beat up Nitori
on my first try. It was unbelievably close since I didn't know what to expect (and randomly walked into her corner), but my god Wriggle's poison lasted throughout the entire fight... And Aya just barely managed to finish the last hit with around 4k damage.
Pictures because it (http://i162.photobucket.com/albums/t270/FoxFanatic1995/Nitori1.png) was unbelievably close. (http://i162.photobucket.com/albums/t270/FoxFanatic1995/Nitori2.png)
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As for buffing flandre
.. I find that buffing characters (especially flandre
) for trash is pretty overkill. Might be useful if you have a limited party selection due to tp or something but otherwise that's silly. And bosses, well, her single target nuke isn't actually composite.
Buff one character to wipe the enemy party in one shot, save SP on the rest of the active party. On earlier floors it wasn't a necessity, but there's stuff on 18F that can survive an unbuffed Laveatein
, and I oftentimes find it easier to save the rest of the party's SP and just go ahead and power-nuke 'em.
And her single-target doesn't need to be composite to benefit from +72% attack BV
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Since I've been messing around a ton with Pesco's NG+ file, I noticed something at Chen's boss fight. I had accidentally run right into her when I was definitely under leveled. She was pretty much killing everyone off until I had Flandre in Slot 4. At that point all she did was spam Phoenix Spread Wings. I found that pretty odd considering she would Flight of Idaten the first 3 slots repeatedly. Maybe that 4th slot is programmed not to get hit by single target attacks?
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Since I've been messing around a ton with Pesco's NG+ file, I noticed something at Chen's boss fight. I had accidentally run right into her when I was definitely under leveled. She was pretty much killing everyone off until I had Flandre in Slot 4. At that point all she did was spam Phoenix Spread Wings. I found that pretty odd considering she would Flight of Idaten the first 3 slots repeatedly. Maybe that 4th slot is programmed not to get hit by single target attacks?
*blinks*...you mean for this fight only right? please? I get single-nuked on the fourth slot so many times it's not funny. If I hadn't, I probably could have completed the game at level 10 (ok exaggeration but still).
I seem to recall in my last game Chen rocked mya ss with Flight of idaten too (1hko'd china after her buff to boot), and then decided to use pheonix spread wings at a stupid time.
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Buff and debuffs? I hax those onto my enemies too. I think the address for them is based on battle positions, unique to each person's game of course, so you gonna have to figure out the addresses yourselves :D.
Any news of hard figures for stat rebalances?
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Buff and debuffs? I hax those onto my enemies too. I think the address for them is based on battle positions, unique to each person's game of course, so you gonna have to figure out the addresses yourselves :D.
Any news of hard figures for stat rebalances?
you mean spell formulas? I thought you wanted to do the stat rebalancing...
Spell rebalancing doesn't look hopeful. I asked the hacker for the English translation patch if the formulas were editable near the spell names and descriptions and he was like "lol no, I don't wanna touch that game again kthxbai"...
Ok so his response was more professional but that seems to be what he was thinking.
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We've already established that I can't do anything about spell formulae. Stat growths and levelling rates. That's all I can do. I suppose I can also make it appear that spells cost less SP, but not really (haven't tested it enough).
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Since I've been messing around a ton with Pesco's NG+ file, I noticed something at Chen's boss fight. I had accidentally run right into her when I was definitely under leveled. She was pretty much killing everyone off until I had Flandre in Slot 4. At that point all she did was spam Phoenix Spread Wings. I found that pretty odd considering she would Flight of Idaten the first 3 slots repeatedly. Maybe that 4th slot is programmed not to get hit by single target attacks?
Different attacks have their own tendencies as to what slots they'll target. Since at the start of the game you have both Patchy and Marisa, who'll both definitely get wiped in one hit, Flight of Itaden's probably incapable of hitting slot 4 to keep the backbone of your attack force from getting taken out on the first turn.
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Different attacks have their own tendencies as to what slots they'll target. Since at the start of the game you have both Patchy and Marisa, who'll both definitely get wiped in one hit, Flight of Itaden's probably incapable of hitting slot 4 to keep the backbone of your attack force from getting taken out on the first turn.
This. There are attacks like Snipe and stuff which definitely do the opposite - they favour hitting the third and fourth slot, just to piss you off.
Also... no clue about what happens if multiple instances of PSN get afflicted at once. I'd assume it's like PAR, which based on my loose recollection (and not actual data) seemed to only 'overwrite' if the new duration would be greater than what was currently left.
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Something I've been wondering for awhile; who's everyone's tank of choice?
I've been using 10F exclusively (with 7F as a second slot occasionally) since I got her, but I can't help but wonder if I'm missing out by not using Remi.
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Something I've been wondering for awhile; who's everyone's tank of choice?
I've been using 10F exclusively (with 7F as a second slot occasionally) since I got her, but I can't help but wonder if I'm missing out by not using Remi.
China is probably the absolute best 1st slot tank. 10F girl is better if you are leveled enough for her to take 0s from everything (which doesn't require a whole lot of leveling actually, but it's definately not natural for that to happen otherwise), or fer her to survive thousand fist khanons/ratsetsu fists/etc.
Remi is kind of like a tank/dps hybrid IMO. I generally dislike hybrids in most games but I think she's pretty good in this one. Thing is her tank overall stats are actually better than china's IMO (due to her better mnd), it's just that her lack of healing stinks. But the ability to self-buff her defense is also great. But regardless of if you focus her on a tank or not, she can actually do some pretty mean dps in a boss fight. Probably not the best choice if your party setup has means of buffing the atk of other characters easily and quickly though (like if you use renko charge alot, or iku's atk buff, etc). But if you aren't using renko or Iku
, you can probably build Remi to be a top-tier dpser IMO, who can take a hit better than anybody else.
I don't like squishy hp tanks, not in this game, not in any game. Honestly though, I think China and 10F girl are the only 2 real choices for tanks, everyone else is only situationally good compared to those two, and even the 10F tank is only situationally good if you aren't grinding levels. It's one of the biggest balance issues of this game IMO.
Oh, 18F person might make a good tank too, haven't really used that character though, it's against my religion to.
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Oh, 18F person might make a good tank too, haven't really used that character though, it's against my religion to.
Don't worry, that makes two of us. :V Statistically though, that character's got 10F's defensive stats with the last 12F's affinities and China's HP, so 18F's probably the best potential tank.
Well, guess I'll pour some skill points in Remi and see how she does.
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Don't worry, that makes two of us. :V Statistically though, that character's got 10F's defensive stats with the last 12F's affinities and China's HP, so 18F's probably the best potential tank.
No, 18F Def and Mnd growth is only 10, 10F tank's is 12. Not to mention 10F tank levels up noticeably faster. Remi's stat growth is 10 Def, and 9 Mnd, with a hp growth of 19, 18F character only has 16 hp growth. Remi is better statistically (if you factor her being slightly higher level) 18F has great elemental resists though.
The only reason why people don't really see remi as a great tank is because her level up rate is really bad and 18F has even worse leveling. I know some people use 18F as a tank though so I figure I should mention it when I was qqing over the lack of tank choice in this game.
edit: Mind you I just checked 18F skill level costs, they are better than Remi's.. In any case I still doubt 18F is the best potential tank, Especially since 18F also lacks a reuseable skill that benefits tanking (curse of vlad buffs def and mnd, china has a heal, 10F has an uber defense/mnd buff)
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Especially since 18F also lacks a reuseable skill that benefits tanking (curse of vlad buffs def and mnd, china has a heal, 10F has an uber defense/mnd buff)
Well, unless you turn spell animations off.
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Meiling is pretty much permanently in my first party slot, but my party takes along 10F and 7F as well. Probably not the best idea to take along 3 tanks in a party but oh well!
I think I've finally gotten settled on a party I like now so progress should be coming along. I'd like to see what the more experience people think of the party though. Mind you this is early game so SP costs are going to be an issue.
Meiling
Remilia
Reimu
Marisa
Patchcouli
Chen
Cirno
Alice
Minoriko
Suwako
Komachi
Tenshi
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Meiling is pretty much permanently in my first party slot, but my party takes along 10F and 7F as well. Probably not the best idea to take along 3 tanks in a party but oh well!
You don't consider Remilia to be a tank?
Anyways, I'm just curious as to why Cirno is in your team. Everything she can do, 7F can do... pretty much better, plus more.
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Again, early game SP costs mostly. Cirno has cheap and effective spells for trash kills right now. Although I'm up for suggestions on who could replace her if you have ideas.
I'm currently on Floor 2 again since I've been messing around doing crazy things before I actually decided to try to get through this game again.
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Meiling is pretty much permanently in my first party slot, but my party takes along 10F and 7F as well. Probably not the best idea to take along 3 tanks in a party but oh well!
I think I've finally gotten settled on a party I like now so progress should be coming along. I'd like to see what the more experience people think of the party though. Mind you this is early game so SP costs are going to be an issue.
Meiling
Remilia
Reimu
Marisa
Patchcouli
Chen
Cirno
Alice
Minoriko
Komachi
Tenshi
Given the point in the game you're at, that's probably fine. Though, 10F's probably not going to be terribly effective for tanking at that level. Perhaps Yuka
? Her first spell's nice and cheap with low delay. Also, Keine
is proving invaluable on my NG+.
Otherwise yeah, there really isn't much that's good for a beginning party other than, well, the beginning characters.
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I used Meiling, 7F and 18F as Tanks, with 18F also being back-up DPS. Now, everyone who complains about 18Fs Level Rate, My Reimu had only 10-13 Levels on 18F. Yes that makes a good couple thousand points in numerous stats later, but overall 18F keeps up with the party well.
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i found out you can move the bgm files out of the folder and the game still works. the music gets pretty annoying after some time and its really damn loud.
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Once I''m done with exams, I want to do a 4-girl only run. Yes I will be cheating to get the exp to cut down on grinding, but all floors will be fully explored at least. Obv NG+ with characters only, no items. SKP and EXP don't matter since I'm hacking those figures. I also won't be using a ridiculously overlevelled team, that would trivialize the game too much.
Suggestions for the team? Basic setup I prefer is tank / speed / healer / mage.
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Once I''m done with exams, I want to do a 4-girl only run. Yes I will be cheating to get the exp to cut down on grinding, but all floors will be fully explored at least. Obv NG+ with characters only, no items. SKP and EXP don't matter since I'm hacking those figures. I also won't be using a ridiculously overlevelled team, that would trivialize the game too much.
Suggestions for the team? Basic setup I prefer is tank / speed / healer / mage.
Tenshi
Aya
Reimu/Sanae
, or Rumia for lulz
Yuka
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Rumia for lulz
Why you hate me so ;_;
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Why you hate me so ;_;
Alternatively, you could just use all the bad/rarely used characters+Reimu/Sanae/Minoriko/Tanker. Which may actually be realistic without hacking or ridiculous grinding.
But yeah, if you use Rumia for this, you should hack her stat growth up a bit :V
Sakuya for speed wouldn't be too bad of an idea, since she's got nice defensive stats. Great bit better ones then Aya, at any rate, and since she'd be permanent second slot... well. Yuka
is probably a great choice since she's got good stats all over, and then you need whoever is best for tanking. Which is maybe not 10F girl, since defense ignoring attacks will 1shot her and then you have no tank, which for a 4 girl run will KILL you.
Reimu is mandatory. No choice. You NEED her group heal and defense buff, plus she can inflict PAR. Meiling would be a great tank choice since she's, y'know, awesometank, plus can heal status effects and self-heal. Reimu's heal won't be full-healing people, so Meiling's supplementary heals and self-healing would be very helpful.
EDIT:Ehh, Yuka
's stats aren't that great. Enough to consider her, though. Keine
could be considered. Ran
has great defenses and magic attacks, although her buffs aren't anything special in a 4 girl run.
Meiling/Sakuya/Reimu doesn't sound too bad, although you might want to switch Sakuya for someone tankier instead. Keine, Ran, Yuka, Rinnosuke
Remi, Wriggle, and maybe Suika have good enough defensive stats to be worth considering, after taking into account other things as well, of course.
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Forgot about hacking growths. In that case, which 4 girls moveset should I do the run with? Anyone *can* become any role except healer/buffer.
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I totally submit my vote for
Team 9: Wriggle, Mystia, Cirno, and Rumia
. Dooo eeet!
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I totally submit my vote for Team 9: Wriggle, Mystia, Cirno, and Rumia
. Dooo eeet!
I second this. v;
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Oh man, gonna get so owned by Flowing Hellfire :ohdear:
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Oh man, gonna get so owned by Flowing Hellfire :ohdear:
FIR Aff at Lv 20-25 should be enough to keep it at sane dmg counts when it's first used by ThatOneBoss
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I lost my cheat tables FFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFF
Gonna take a while.
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I'm guessing yours had the stat growths on it and such? I'd give you mine but it's the same as that one I uploaded months ago.
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Items, encounter rate, SKP pool and EXP/SKP gain are the same for everyone. Character info vary from each person's comp.
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Well I don't have the SKP pool or EXP pool but I got just about everything else. I found the old link and its still available for download if you need.
http://www.megaupload.com/?d=7ILDFRGL
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Thanks. It's got everything I'll need to get started on rebuilding my char tables.
Edit: Got my addresses all sorted out. What sort of initial tweaking should the 9 squad get?
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Well out of the choices...
Wriggle is the most tank like out of the bunch so you might want to emphasize on those for her. Maybe boost her HP as well if possible.
Mystia
could probably be made into a speedster. She'd probably be akin to Aya in use, though you could also decide to emphasize her status spells.
Cirno is probably best left close to original, her damage and statuses are fairly decent in use. Though she might get really hard to use properly towards late game. You might consider boosting her attack stats a bit when status resistance becomes common among enemies.
Rumia... hmm. Upping her MAG is a bad idea because it would really break the game with her MDEF piercing spells. It might be a good idea to make her more of a magic tank so that she doesn't die quite so often. I could also see her getting more status resists... maybe PAR or SIL?
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Just to play devil's advocate, would Rumia really be a gamebreaker just from tweaking her MAG? Considering she's pretty crappy statwise, making her a one-trick glass cannon doesn't seem like it'd be any worse than, say,
Flan
or Eiki
in a normal game.
That said, maybe making her a dedicated magic tank would help the team more overall.
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Just to play devil's advocate, would Rumia really be a gamebreaker just from tweaking her MAG? Considering she's pretty crappy statwise, making her a one-trick glass cannon doesn't seem like it'd be any worse than, say, Flan
or Eiki
in a normal game.
That said, maybe making her a dedicated magic tank would help the team more overall.
This. Rumia suffers from poor MAG, so increasing MAG growth by 1 or maybe even 2 points wouldn't be THAT much of a DiskOneNuke. Of the 9 Squad, she would have to play Healer, so she will need at least 1 extra point to Growth to actually be a capable Healer.
Wriggle could be your ATK-Nuke, since one will almost certainly be needed, so gaining an extra 1 or 2 in her ATK growth will help her nicely. Alternatly, she could be the Speeder, so 1-2 extra in SPD growth instead.
Cirno... Tank? She has a spell for DEF/MND buffing, so making her a bit more Tankish would definately be good. I'm rather certain she was fragile, so she could likly need 2-3 extra growth in DEF and/or MND.
Mystia
... like Wriggle, she could ATK-Nuke or be the Speeder. Nice thing is, she has pretty decent ATK already, so she wouldn't really need much more, if any. Alternatly, she could Tank, as I think she had decent DEF/MND growths.
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Only 1 or 2 points? I was planning to quarter their levelup ratings so that I can grind the game normally for levels. It's less hack work for me that way. I would still be sadly short on SKP though.
I think Mystia's starting stats are fine as they are. The other 3 could do with more specialisation.
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Only 1 or 2 points? I was planning to quarter their levelup ratings so that I can grind the game normally for levels. It's less hack work for me that way. I would still be sadly short on SKP though.
Ok, I didn't know how much 1 or 2 points extra in a growth would boost it in the end, thus I took something small and unlikly to cause a massive difference. Didn't Super-Nuke have something like 22 in ATK Growth?
Also, "quarter their levelup ratings" Like turning a rating of 100 for Level Speed to 25? Wow, that sounds kinda crazy, roughly 4x Leveling Rate :O
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The big deal is that I can only use these 4 for the entire game. There are no silver bullets or backups to swap out. They need to be at least 3 times as strong for typical battle, and maybe 6 times for bosses. But that aside, 9 squad is actually still a fairly good team. We're aiming for full completion of story mode with all recruits, the bonus stars only if it's feasible by the end and none of Plus Disk.
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The big deal is that I can only use these 4 for the entire game. There are no silver bullets or backups to swap out. They need to be at least 3 times as strong for typical battle, and maybe 6 times for bosses. But that aside, 9 squad is actually still a fairly good team. We're aiming for full completion of story mode with all recruits, the bonus stars only if it's feasible by the end and none of Plus Disk.
Well, not necessarily. The main thing is that their defenses are pretty terrible (Except Wriggle who's a decent secondary tank) and Rumia can't provide too much healing - that's where the biggest issue would come in. The best you could do for emergency healing is to temporarily reduce your party size and hope for the best.
On the other hand, level up too much, and you'll end up like that level 60-something Alice that solo'd Eientei by simply having too much goddamn defense.
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Their individual growths are as they are for balance reasons and tbh, probably don't need tweaking. I don't think it's such a bad thing that I'll be overlevelling to beat the bosses because the conditions necessitate it. How much overlevelled I will be is what keeps it challenging.
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On the other hand, level up too much, and you'll end up like that level 60-something Alice that solo'd Eientei by simply having too much goddamn defense.
That's the thing; because of the way defense works, if you just quarter the level-up rates then everyone will start taking 0 damage from absolutely everything; well, err, apart from the fact that non-Wriggle peeps have terrible defensive stats. Wriggle, though, would be pretty much invincible.
Their individual growths are as they are for balance reasons and tbh, probably don't need tweaking. I don't think it's such a bad thing that I'll be overlevelling to beat the bosses because the conditions necessitate it. How much overlevelled I will be is what keeps it challenging.
So Wriggle being used by basically no one (And she really isn't worth using compared to others), Cirno being a piece of paper with fast SPD/PAR debuffs only (And weak PAR, at that), Rumia not even being VIABLE for using as she's zetta slow, pitiful HP, weak DEF and only decent MND, Moonlight Ray does what damage that everyone else should do on non-nukey multihit attacks, her MND-ignore is pretty damn weak and there's Kaguya instead, Demarcation is nice but it isn't anything to redeem her at ALL... that's balanced?
Not saying you have to tweak stats or anything, but these characters (minus Mystia) really aren't balanced. Cirno is useful for awhile, I do admit that. But Rumia, she's throwing Silent Selenes around for a floor or two, and then she falls behind everyone else so hard and there's no way she could possibly be usable at all when you've got other choices.
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The fact that they are overshadowed by the other characters may be a flavour thing in the game. Rumia isn't supposed to be stronger than Patchy. Cirno is strong for a fairy but not so strong compared to the other characters. The team is only the 4 of them for the whole game. No alternatives and no backups.
With the full cast, SKP has to be shared among around 20 characters. There's no need to invest people that won't be used. Any shortfalls in growth can be bought out when the same resources are shared among 4 only.
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I'd recommend bumping up their SP and TP significantly as well. If they'll be the only four in the party, they're going to need it.
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lol
I used Wriggle to tank 8F's Flowing Hellfire and she survived.
So...
Hmm. She's good enough to tank some stuff.
Also, I have no idea how much health the thing has, either.
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Out of curiosity, could you perhaps provide a file with a NG+ for this modified team when you get it ready? I'd be really interested in trying this out.
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Within 24 hours probably. I think I'll definitely bump up their TP to 18 base for all of them. And to do the least amount of hacking overall, their levelup rating will be reduced.
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Hello, I just started this game 3 days ago. Now, I'm on the third floor. I want to ask something:
- Do characters who's dead or out of TP and return to Gen. still get the EXP from other characters' battle?
- All of my character lv are over 23 right now. Do I stay here to long? or I should get more level before move on?
- About skill point, at this point the status that each characters use for attacking (ATK and MAG) are at lv20 and other necessary status are around lv 10-15. Is it too low?
- How long will it take to finish the game?
Thank you.
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Hello, I just started this game 3 days ago. Now, I'm on the third floor. I want to ask something:
- Do characters who's dead or out of TP and return to Gen. still get the EXP from other characters' battle?
- All of my character lv are over 23 right now. Do I stay here to long? or I should get more level before move on?
- About skill point, at this point the status that each characters use for attacking are at lv20. Is it too low?
- How long will it take to finish the game?
Thank you.
- I don't remember the exact proportions but everyone always gets EXP. Characters that finish a battle (on the front row) get the most, followed by characters in the party not in battle (the back rows). People back at the SDM (people not in the party and people that go back because of no TP or HP) get the least.
- That sounds like a decent level for that floor, but I'm not entirely sure. Someone else might be able to better answer this.
- Sounds pretty good to me, you might want to spend some SKP on HP for everyone as well, a few levels of HP is always beneficial, no matter what character it is.
- Expect the main game (Floors 1-20) to take quite a long while. This is definitely not a game you will finish in a matter of days unless you are really, really dedicated to it. The post game (Floors 21-30), I'm not really sure about since I've never actually gotten there.
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Hello, I just started this game 3 days ago. Now, I'm on the third floor. I want to ask something:
- Do characters who's dead or out of TP and return to Gen. still get the EXP from other characters' battle?
- All of my character lv are over 23 right now. Do I stay here to long? or I should get more level before move on?
- About skill point, at this point the status that each characters use for attacking (ATK and MAG) are at lv20 and other necessary status are around lv 10-15. Is it too low?
- How long will it take to finish the game?
Thank you.
- Prism kind of said what I'd already say in response to this one. I want to say it's something like 100/90/80 in terms of percentages since my never-used characters are only behind by a couple levels (if behind at all), but I really don't remember either.
- You're actually overleveled by a slight bit. High enough to take on 5F anyway.
- Sounds good to me. Maybe bump up HP/SP to the same levels as atk/mag.
- I'm on 18F with 40 hours in, but I'd say actual playtime's been 35 hours or so since I'm prone to leaving the game running while I do other things. Though, I also explored every floor and raged a lot at 7F's teleporter puzzle instead of looking up a guide first thing, so there's definitely room to shave time off.
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So I have just started to get back into this game again. What would be a recommended level for taking on the first of the F30 bosses? The members of my current party all have levels around 300-350.
Also managed to defeat Youmu v3
for the first time. It was kind of close at the end, with my only two remaining party members being Tenshi
and Kaguya
and the former just having run out of SP for her self-buff, but I got off a final Hourai Barrage
which apparently was enough.
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So I have just started to get back into this game again. What would be a recommended level for taking on the first of the F30 bosses? The members of my current party all have levels around 300-350.
Also managed to defeat Youmu v3
for the first time. It was kind of close at the end, with my only two remaining party members being Tenshi
and Kaguya
and the former just having run out of SP for her self-buff, but I got off a final Hourai Barrage
which apparently was enough.
I believe it's 300-350 for one, 400-450 for the second, and ~600 for the last one.
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9 squad hacked save. All TP at 18 and level up rating reduced to 25%. The high exp value was just me getting a reference to start building my char cheat tables.
Soon I will begin.
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You are the awesome Pesco. :V
It should be fun taking out all these powerful beings of Gensokyo with Team 9. Bahaha.
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9 squad hacked save. All TP at 18 and level up rating reduced to 25%. The high exp value was just me getting a reference to start building my char cheat tables.
Soon I will begin.
Ha ha, I accidentally ran into Chen with this file and...
Team 9 dominated her.
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Can someone tell me or PM me about "Cheat engine" that can give you a skill point?
I start to get bored of running around - -''
Oh and thank you for answering my question before.
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Can someone tell me or PM me about "Cheat engine" that can give you a skill point?
I start to get bored of running around - -''
Oh and thank you for answering my question before.
You only made it as far as the 3rd floor correct? Trust me, the game does require lots of grinding to the point where its boring. If you still want to use Cheat Engine and such, then you can download it along with a Labyrinth Cheat Table and even a small tutorial on how to use the engine for Labyrinth of Touhou.
http://www.megaupload.com/?d=7ILDFRGL
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If it's your first playthrough, then rather don't use any of the cheats. Plenty of people here got through just fine with a bit of grinding and having a good challenge each floor was what made this game such a big topic.
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If it's your first playthrough, then rather don't use any of the cheats. Plenty of people here got through just fine with a bit of grinding and having a good challenge each floor was what made this game such a big topic.
Should of said this, unfortunately I'm barely awake at almost 6AM. :fail:
Alternatively, you could make a copy of your save file and/or save in a separate slot for your cheated playthrough like I did.
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You only made it as far as the 3rd floor correct? Trust me, the game does require lots of grinding to the point where its boring. If you still want to use Cheat Engine and such, then you can download it along with a Labyrinth Cheat Table and even a small tutorial on how to use the engine for Labyrinth of Touhou.
http://www.megaupload.com/?d=7ILDFRGL
If it's your first playthrough, then rather don't use any of the cheats. Plenty of people here got through just fine with a bit of grinding and having a good challenge each floor was what made this game such a big topic.
Thank you for your advise. I didn't plan to use it much because I know it will ruin the fun of the game. The idea of playing normally in one save and cheating in another save file is okey.
So, I will download it but keep it until I found the real dead end.
P.S. The real purpose is that I bored of collecting skill point for every new members I recruited.
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Trust me, the game does require lots of grinding to the point where its boring
Maybe for the 16/18/20F boss, but those are really the only cases, and as long as you're playing well even they shouldn't be particularly bad grind points.
Plus Disk is a completely different story. Plus Disk is HUGE grinding. But as far as the main part goes, its pretty low-grind for a game like this, and quite challenging while still being fair.
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My hacked levelup ratings just got reset by the game. Gonna fix that and then get started on 1F.
Oh man, so overlevelled that it isn't even funny. Beat Meiling and Chen before they even got their second turn. Cirno paralysed Chen though.
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My hacked levelup ratings just got reset by the game. Gonna fix that and then get started on 1F.
Wait, what? They can do that?
How do we know if they get reset?
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Maybe for the 16/18/20F boss, but those are really the only cases, and as long as you're playing well even they shouldn't be particularly bad grind points.
Plus Disk is a completely different story. Plus Disk is HUGE grinding. But as far as the main part goes, its pretty low-grind for a game like this, and quite challenging while still being fair.
My experiences thus far. First time I ever really grinded was when I got to 16F's boss, and I believe I was still underleveled for the fight (characters were in the high 60s'low 70s, I believe the wiki recommends 70-90 for that fight) yet managed without a single casualty. The experience you get just from exploring floors is generally enough to get by on.
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So guys I thought about doing a speedrun of this for fun, mainly cause I'm bored. It's going to be on 2.06 for obvious reasons(Speed and NG+), so I'm looking to make a party that will last me from floor 1 to the 20th. I plan on fighting nearly every battle I get into for leveling purposes(Early on I can possibly avoid it for a bit, but if I can easily win and get the exp/skill points that helps a lot), especially in the later floors since it will be required. First off though, gonna need a party of 12 that will help me. Here's who I thought of so far that can be useful.
Marisa(Full power Master Spark)
Patchouli(Trash rapist)
Remilia(At least for Early floors)
Chen(Fast attacker)
Hong Meiling(Healing + secondary tank)
Rumia(Moonlight Ray)
Tenshi(Tanking)
Komachi(HP Tank + Stat Debuffs and minor damage)
Suwako(Moriya's Iron Ring for Paralysis)
Kaguya(Buddha's Stone Bowl for faster turns + buffs)
Rinnosuke(buffer for boss battles as well as damage dealer)
Utsuho(Giga Flare for boss fights)
Sikieki(Last Judgment of course)
Yuyuko(For easier Trash battles for grinding)
Any other possible choices are welcome, as well as any tips and such.
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You heretic! Where's Reimu? Rumia, Remi and
Yuyuko
could probably be better people. You're packing a lot of MYS damage there btw.
Wait, what? They can do that?
How do we know if they get reset?
If the cost of leveling up looks similar to the other characters, it got reset.
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You heretic! Where's Reimu? Rumia, Remi and Yuyuko
could probably be better people. You're packing a lot of MYS damage there btw.
I don't see much use for Reimu really. Rumia just has that powerful attack that pierces Defense, Remi definitely could be someone better, and Yuyuko's just for the instant death.
It also occurred to me I can just easily carry over equips and even Skill Points(I was wondering what the other thing was besides Characters and Equips). Looks like I won't need to bother with much training as long as I beef up my characters with Skill Points first.
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Ok, whats with saying that Remi isn't good? I'm highly certain she is one of the better characters in the game. Complaining about her getting hit with PAR or PSN is also hardly a reason to drop her.
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I'd rather use Yuugi over Remi.
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Rumia(Moonlight Ray)
what
Okay, it's like Silent Selene for a few floors, but it's REALLY nothing special by the time you reach the 10~12F puzzle floors. It's nowhere near nuke material because of her non-stellar MAG, and her MND-ignoring spell is similarly luckluster, especially when you've got Kaguya instead. And on top of that, Rumia has PITIFUL HP and speed, terrible DEF and only decent MND. Why in the world are you thinking of using her for a run that would require only the best people to be used?
Yuyuko is also terrible. I see what you mean by the instant death, but her spells also have massive SP cost that can't be handled until late floors (which is where you get her, normally), and they do so-so damage ONLY of SPI element except for the one that costs an arm and a leg.
The rest doesn't look bad (And I think Remi is a great choice, she doesn't scale into Plus as well but for main game she's great), but IMO bringing Mystia would be a great idea. Renko as well. Any boss that can be hit by PAR with any decent chance will be MURDERED by having Renko or Mystia, plus Renko's debuff should be incredible as well, even though it's pretty expensive for awhile (SP boosting gear, anyone?)
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Forgot about Mystia. She's MVP of the 9 squad run so far. Always goes first and wipes trash with Midnight Chorus Master.
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I'd rather use Yuugi over Remi.
I'd rather have a good self-buff and good DPS without an element over horrid delay moves, boring stats and an ok DPS with delay that makes me feel sick. My friend uses Remi and Yugi, I had him Spear and KO each enemy he found on his current floor, Spear was dealing an average of 5000, while KO3S was hitting for 5600 average, not much more. IIRC, KO has stupid high delay, like 90% of her gauge or something, while spear was... what, 60%?
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I'm going to suggest
Keine
, at least for early floors. Her spells are cheap while remaining decent for both trash and bosses, and her attack buffs will put the speed in speed run. :V
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Yuugi's sake not even drop :3
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Forgot about Mystia. She's MVP of the 9 squad run so far. Always goes first and wipes trash with Midnight Chorus Master.
Definitely. Even just using Ill-Starred Dive is great, it's fast and powerful. I'm definitely loving Mystia for her awesome attack nuking. Rumia isn't so terrible, but she's definitely the LVP of the group right now. Everyone else manages to take out enemy groups before she gets a turn, and then she's just distracting enemies when everyone else needs to Focus. I'm pleasantly surprised by Wriggle's survival skills so far, she's tanking things fairly well. Cirno is as good as she always was.
All in all, Team 9 is actually a rather good team.
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I think Cirno reverted to her normal self once I beat and recruited her. How would I go about fixing her up again?
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I think Cirno reverted to her normal self once I beat and recruited her. How would I go about fixing her up again?
I think it's cause you did it on 2.04 and not 2.06. 2.04 doesn't have the NG+ feature so getting a character you already have reverts those things.
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I was somewhat referring to using Pesco's Team 9 file, since when I releveled her she only had 16 TP as opposed to the set 18 TP that Pesco had given everyone.
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I was somewhat referring to using Pesco's Team 9 file, since when I releveled her she only had 16 TP as opposed to the set 18 TP that Pesco had given everyone.
Exactly what Axel said, it shouldn't reset like that if you do those specific fights on 2.06.
But in regards to actually resetting it...ask Pesco. :V
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If you're NG+-ing, there's very little reason to actively restrict yourself to one team, I suppose; especially since you have speed levelling. Obviously you don't want to spend anything on characters you won't use, but if you can keep only about 18 characters levelled and stuff, the time you spend going through the levelup screen and party switches should be far less than the amount of time you spend fighting bosses with the proper teams versus a subpar team.
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I was somewhat referring to using Pesco's Team 9 file, since when I releveled her she only had 16 TP as opposed to the set 18 TP that Pesco had given everyone.
Sorry, learn Cheat Engine. I suggest you don't do the Wriggle sidequest. You can go kill the bugs but don't talk to her. Wriggle's stats are stored in a different place from most characters. I suspect characters who can poison or have unique damage formulae are put aside like that. This *could* mean spell formulae can be hacked.
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So I just hit 30F, and found I have no desire at all to tackle the Grind Wall of China. I want to start an NG+ with stats tweaked for some characters, but I don't really know how to change those.
Million dollar question: Is this something I can learn/be taught how to do in a reasonable amount of time (since I like doing things like this myself when I can), or do I need to leave it to someone who knows better?
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Get Cheat Engine, do the tutorial and you'll have got all the skills required to find all the stats you want to hack.
I can do the editing if you tell me exactly what changes you want, but don't expect a quick delivery for a week or so.
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Oh, I know how to use CE, just from the way people were talking I was thinking it was some kind of data-sundering ordeal into the depths of programming hell :3
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There's a lot of effort to it. That's all I can tell you.
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So I started playing too
anything I should know?(except for evasion not working)
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So I started playing too
anything I should know?(except for evasion not working)
Hmm, that I can remember right now, this game is hard, in the fun way. You actually need to think rather then a "spam one move over and heal when needed" thing.
Buffs and De-Buffs are awesome when you start getting them, they at best cut enemy stats down to 50% and shoot your stats up to 200%, thats what, a 400% effectiveness boost?. That is, without cheating to increase how much you can buff/de-buff :V
Any team is capable of beating the game, so you can use whoever you want, but some characters are better then others.
Generally, avoid using the name of a character seen on 5F+ or on the 2nd+ character page to avoid spoiling. Either something like "7F girl"/"12F boss" sort of refering, or use of spoiler tags would be best.
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about leveling up bonuses
should I just use them for one stat?
Like Remilia purely atk, Reimu magic etc.
also, when do I get more tanks :V
Remi is cool I guess, China is a pure wall and Youmu does one attack and she's out of juice.
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about leveling up bonuses
should I just use them for one stat?
Like Remilia purely atk, Reimu magic etc.
Most people like to focus on one stat, but it really doesn't matter since level up bonuses are inferior to skillpoint bonuses. So basically whatever you choose, it can be offset by whatever you decide to invest your skillpoints into. If you want to be a real efficiency perfectionist, I suppose you can find out what the most expensive stat to raise via skillpoints is for that particular character (but is still a useful stat) and focus on that, but that's just kinda weird. Just don't spend it on sp ever, you can spend skillpoints on sp, and at some point in the game, you'll find yourself never needing more sp, you'll never run out unless an enemy casts destroy magic or something...Some characters are exceptions though, remi and chen come to mind.
also, when do I get more tanks :V
Remi is cool I guess, China is a pure wall and Youmu does one attack and she's out of juice.
This is a big flaw IMO, there is not enough variety in tanks. China is what I call a slot 1 tank, a tank that can survive in the first slot reliably. Remi is one too early game, but eventually she is probably best considered a slot 2 tank, Youmu is inferior to remi in this regard. Many characters can be considered a slot 1 tank in very specific situations, even patchy for example, but situational scenarios aside, It's pretty much just China and 10F tank. 6F girl has good hp and defens,e but absolutely horrid mnd, so, she can be a good slot 1 tank provided the enemy doesn't have a big single target/row attack magic nuke, Wriggle is also a kinda-slot 2 tank, umm.. Some people like 7F girl as a "hp tank". She really isn't a proper tank, she's just good cuz her hp is great (both her def and mnd suck), so generally she's useful for late game bosses who have no threat aside from attacks which ignore defense completely, etc.
Other things you should know...
Many of these you probably already do know:
switching costs 1 tp, when you switch a character out, it's as if they are still on the battlefield spamming "focus" the entire time, so in a boss fight, if you need a particular character to regain sp, it's often better to switch them than to focus them, focus is only better when you need that person out because they can take a hit better than any potential replacement or something.. They also retain all their buffs (and debuffs though) while switched out. So you wont have them wasting away uselessly while you're at 0 sp.
I've read some sources that say the people in the front 4 get 100% exp, the other 8 in the back get 90%, and everyone in the mansion gets 80%. My own personal experience says that all 12 of your party members get 100%, regardless of who is in the front or back. Maybe this changed with a specific version or the plus disk. I haven't really bothered to compare to people in the mansion.
You may want to use the wiki to research how to get some characters. There's no shame in not knowing that you need to fight 250 battles with 4 different but specific characters to get another character. There are only a few cases like this but it's good to know in advance. No, there is no way to tell how many battles you've fought. As long as you use everyone relatively equally until the point where you have more than 12 party members, you've probably met the criteria already for all of those joinables except the 12F girl. She's the only one that requires a battlecount for characters that you may not even have in your party at all ever.
Row attacks deal 100% damage to one target (normally left to right, but sometimes giant mofos in the middle count as the first), 80% to the next, 40%, then 20%.
The game doesn't really REQUIRE grinding until 16F boss/18f Boss, it's just pretty challenging if you don't grind beforehand, note that some bosses (Youmu is the only case that comes to mind for me, but I've heard of stories about 12F boss using their "IWIN" nuke early too) can cheese you if you have bad luck and they decide to perform an unfair combo on you when you are behind on level.
Status resists (statdown,poi,par,etc) are multiplied by 3. So having a par resistance of 20 actually means you resist it 60% of the time (it's actually more more often than not since most par attacks don't have a 100% rate of success, it subtracts the chance, not divides).
Bosses with the same graphic as the 7F boss are all very intimidating in their opening attack. That's as bad as it gets though, survive that gracefully, and the fight should be cake. Feel free to re-itimize/formation just for that attack. Squishier characters should survive mid-way thru the fight provided you buff them/debuff the boss.
durr.. umm.. I think that's it.
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Ghaleon, I think you mean 5F. 6F can't tank worth crap. :V I definitely wouldn't recommend Youmu for a tank either unless everyone else is dead, especially considering how bad her mind is.
Also, 7F's tanking ability doesn't just come from her HP; elementaal resistances lower damage by a percentage, so if you pump her resistances then her lacking defense and mind are trivial against bosses without non-elemental spells. I also happen to like her for random battles versus characters like 10F that might get wiped by something with absurd attack power like a golem, but that's just me.
In short, your main tank selection is limited to:
Meiling
Remilia
5F (though I'm iffy on this personally; her mind's so low she pretty much gets insta-wiped by a single spell)
7F
10F
With other characters such as Wriggle capable of filling the role of a second slot tank (personally something I've never found to be useful ever; I just tend to put buffers such as Sakuya or 9F here).
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How bad is missing some characters? I don't feel like picking up sidequest items :V
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How bad is missing some characters? I don't feel like picking up sidequest items :V
That depends on the character. :V
There are a lot of characters I don't use anymore, but I can't think of one that I haven't found useful at some point in the game. I really would recommend getting everyone anyway.
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I'd recommend going for everyone if only because it's worth the EXP you'll gain from doing so. Most of the optional characters are worth getting anyways.
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How exactly do I gain exp from gaining characters? :V
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How exactly do I gain exp from gaining characters? :V
Boss fights with big EXP gain and massive SKP :D
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rumia sucks y/y
her only use was a decoy against Ifrit's opener
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rumia sucks y/y
her only use was a decoy against Ifrit's opener
very true
Moonlight Ray is pretty effective as a magic nuke for the 5F boss fight, but mostly because you don't have much of a choice but to use her for then. Every level up she falls behind more, so bleh. And I really like Rumia ;_;
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rumia sucks y/y
her only use was a decoy against Ifrit's opener
She's still hitting decently well at level 81 for me with less-than-satisfactory equipment, but yeah, her usefulness is relatively situational.
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ugh, F4 boss
I can kill the top one, but Silence is fucking AWFUL in this game
so basically, if I can't win, grind more?
and how important is putting skill points into resistances?
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She's still hitting decently well at level 81 for me with less-than-satisfactory equipment, but yeah, her usefulness is relatively situational.
It's really a shame that a spell with Moonlight Ray's numbers is in the hands of Rumia, there are characters later on who'd kill to get an attack like that. Which is probably why Rumia has it; it's all that makes her remotely useful.
ugh, F4 boss
I can kill the top one, but Silence is fucking AWFUL in this game
so basically, if I can't win, grind more?
and how important is putting skill points into resistances?
Grinding helps, but equipment can make a big difference as well, once you get far enough in to have a lot of it.
Far as resists go, try to get them over 100, but don't go way out of your way to boost them except for 7F tank, since that's about all she's got.
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Which characters are just outright trash?
Cirno also seems really crappy, even more so when anything fire elemental hits her.
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People also say Wriggle and Sakuya are terrible. I also recall a lot of Minoriko haet but I think that's gone by now. That's all I can recall from the earlier floors.
Back to 14F with my 2nd playthrough by the way. Ah 13F, good memories, good memories...
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ugh, F4 boss
I can kill the top one, but Silence is fucking AWFUL in this game
so basically, if I can't win, grind more?
and how important is putting skill points into resistances?
Meiling can cure silence. Also, you can try taking out the left/right dolls before the top one. This consists of dealing about 300 damage to one, then after Healing Light moves, NUKE IT FASSST. Magic Light is weak to physical attacks and vice versa, they have like 1~1.1k hp. After Healing Light goes down, Alice starts using actual attacks, but she only throws status effects otherwise.
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1~1.1k hp
:teaspit:
EDIT: We are well over the 1k limit. Make a new thread.
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Beat her without almost any extra levels :V
Probably lucked through, maybe because I figured out that 2x Asteroid Belt>>>>>Master Spark.
Got hit by Little Legion at one point and only Remilia barely survived, but managed to get 4 remaining chars up...and she died after one Icicle Fall :V
She seems like a pretty good magic nuker.
Also got a Forbidden Tablet from her. Seems like a rather pimpin' item.
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1000+ posts; locked.