Maidens of the Kaleidoscope
~Hakurei Shrine~ => Help Me, Eirin! => Topic started by: Andrew on April 27, 2013, 12:18:11 AM
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What bullet patterns in the Touhou games have you found to actually be easier on a higher difficulty level than they are on a lower difficulty level? For example, most people find Kanako's Mountain of Faith spellcard in MoF to be harder on easy than it is on normal.
Personally, in PCB, even before I knew about the vsync patch, I found Yuyuko's first nonspell to be easier on normal than it was on easy. I just remember sometimes having to squeeze through smaller gaps on easy. Also, certain spellcards such as resurrection butterfly didn't seem to be any harder on normal than on easy. It could just be that I had gotten better at the game, so don't take my word for it.
It'll be interesting to see how many of us agree about the difficulty on certain patterns we've faced and whether or not those of us who haven't played some of the games will feel the same way when we face those patterns on different difficulty levels. It could also make lower difficulty players feel better about struggling with certain patterns. :)
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In Mountain of Faith, I find the following harder on the lower difficulty.
Nitori's 3rd spellcard (hard vs. lunatic)
Aya's 1st spellcard (hard/lunatic vs. normal)
Sanae's 1st spellcard (hard vs. lunatic)
Kanako's 3rd spellcard (hard/lunatic vs. normal)
Kanako's 4th spellcard (normal vs. easy)
Kanako's 5th spellcard (normal vs. easy)
Other games...I find Hailstorm easier than Icicle Fall (normal, easy is (9)), and I feel like there's something else that I find easier on hard than normal but I can't remember offhand.
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In Imperishable Night I've always found Marisa's Shoot The Moon to be way easier than Earth Light Ray. And as mentioned, Cirno's Hailstorm is a lot easier (or at least a lot less clippy) than Icicle Fall.
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Remi's Netherworld something vs. Needle Mountain (Normal vs. Hard)
Keine's 3 Sacred Treasures (Hard vs. Lunatic)
Marisa's Non-Directional Laser vs. Starlight Typhoon (Normal vs. Hard/Lunatic?)
Marisa's Earth Light Ray vs. Shoot The Moon (Normal vs. Hard/Lunatic?)
Miko's Overdrive spell vs. Lunatic spell (or I was ridiculously lucky for capturing it at my first try... WITH FUCKING SANAE)
Also, does Extra vs. Phantasm count? I did list these before at some accomplishment's thread.
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Only ones I can think of that haven't been mentioned yet:
Kanako's second non-spell - Hard/Normal > Lunatic
Sakuya's final card - Marionette Normal > Killing Doll Hard
PCB Yuyuko's first spell - Normal > Hard
The last two might just be me being weird though. Dunno.
Kanako is kind of poorly designed for the most part :/
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Most of the Prismrivers' solo cards fall under this in general, I think. Lunasa's Stradivarius on Hard is probably a lot worse than Pseudo Stradivarius on Lunatic.
There's also Murasa's timeout spell. Sinker Ghost is a lot harder than Dipper Creeping Close.
The biggest example, though, is almost certainly Archimedes' Pump, the second card from the second boss in Marine Benefit Hard. It's not just harder than the Lunatic version, it's probably the hardest card in the entire game on that difficulty, and comparable to many of the harder Lunatic spells.
Also from MB, there's Megumi's second boss card, where the difficulty is seriously borked. The Easy version is harder than the Normal version, which in turn is harder than the Hard version.
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I agree about all mentioned Kanako phases (Kanako is really unbalanced in difficulty, the super-easy first spell also reflects that) and the patterns Wriggle mentioned, and I'd add these:
Prism Concerto / Stygian Riverside (Normal > Hard)
St. Nikou's Air Scroll / Superhuman (Hard > Lunatic)
And possibly Yuugi's midboss spell, where I've found the Hard version easier than the Normal version, but I'm not sure if that's just me.
Kanako's second non-spell - Hard/Normal > Lunatic
I'd rank this as Normal > Hard > Lunatic, actually. Lunatic you can move back and forth on the bottom, Hard you can move back and forth somewhat higher up (but that's not necessarily intuitive to figure out on your own) or stay at the bottom and switch directions every three waves, but re-streaming on Normal can be very tricky. Although with ReimuA and MarisaC you don't have to re-stream, and with some other characters you can start under Kanako and stream downward instead.
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Just found my post about Extra/Phantasm, if it counts.
Blue Oni Red Oni > Protection of Zenki and Goki
Banquet for 12 Gods > Balance of Motion and Silence
Charming Siege > Xanadu of Straight and Curve
Princess Tenko > Yukari's Spiriting Away
Shikigami Chen > Shikigami Ran
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Might be personal.
Yuugi's Oni Sign "Anomalies, Strength, Disorder, and Spirits" seems a bit easier on Hard than on Normal. I think it might be due to how the bullets group up and the speed they move.
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does Extra vs. Phantasm count? I did list these before at some accomplishment's thread.
Sure, Extra vs Phantasm counts.
Blue Oni Red Oni > Protection of Zenki and Goki
Banquet for 12 Gods > Balance of Motion and Silence
Charming Siege > Xanadu of Straight and Curve
Princess Tenko > Yukari's Spiriting Away
Shikigami Chen > Shikigami Ran
I'm with you on the first, third and fourth cards you listed, but I still find Balance of Motion and Silence = Banquet and Shikigami Ran > Shikigami Chen. I also agree on the Phantasm cards you haven't listed being equal or harder than the Extra versions. Maybe I just haven't practiced the Phantasm cards enough, and I'm panicking too much on Shikigami Ran.
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Sakuya's second spell is a bit worse on Normal than Lunatic.
Metal Fatigue, of course, is more stressful than the piss-easy Silver Dragon.
I hear Laser of Seventeen Articles is worse than Honor the Avoidance but that involves playing 10D Normal so I'm not interested in pursuing that line of inquiry.
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I'm panicking too much on Shikigami Ran.
Well, Ran's movement is static (right?), and you can just stay most of the time at the bottom, only dodging the butterflies that come from upwards and Yukari's aimed slow bullets, since the butterflies that Ran shoots from the bottom won't hit you if you're not too close and give them enough space to spread, if you're at the very bottom. Watch a non-scoring replay (like the one at my sig) and you'll know what I mean.
Shinkigami Chen, however, is kinda annoying because it's pretty much based on vertical movement, and I'm always afraid of hitting Chen's "path" since it stays for longer on the screen and limits your movement depending on where Chen is.
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I hear Laser of Seventeen Articles is worse than Honor the Avoidance but that involves playing 10D Normal so I'm not interested in pursuing that line of inquiry.
No way, Honor the Avoidance of Defiance is way harder.
Well, Ran's movement is static (right?), and you can just stay most of the time at the bottom, only dodging the butterflies that come from upwards and Yukari's aimed slow bullets, since the butterflies that Ran shoots from the bottom won't hit you if you're not too close and give them enough space to spread, if you're at the very bottom. Watch a non-scoring replay (like the one at my sig) and you'll know what I mean.
Shinkigami Chen, however, is kinda annoying because it's pretty much based on vertical movement, and I'm always afraid of hitting Chen's "path" since it stays for longer on the screen and limits your movement depending on where Chen is.
Chen's movement varies very slightly, if at all, while Ran homes on your Y position. It's active dodging vs. repeating a movement-if you haven't learned the movement it's much harder.
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with some other characters you can start under Kanako and stream downward instead.
You can actually do this with every character as long as you're at full power and with quite a bit of leeway, even with ReimuA. Streaming it along the bottom is way too scary, anyone who does this is insane.
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And possibly Yuugi's midboss spell, where I've found the Hard version easier than the Normal version
Might be personal.
Yuugi's Oni Sign "Anomalies, Strength, Disorder, and Spirits" seems a bit easier on Hard than on Normal. I think it might be due to how the bullets group up and the speed they move.
Agreed. The normal version was close to an autobomb in my later 1cc attempts, and my capture rate is less than half (the only one in stage 3), whereas it was over 5 in 6 attempts on hard. The first angled spiral on the left just falls in a very friendly way, whereas the bullets are much more scattered on normal.
That should be the only case in SA, though, as it seems to be the most rigorous about not drastically changing spell cards over the difficulties.
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You can actually do this with every character as long as you're at full power and with quite a bit of leeway, even with ReimuA. Streaming it along the bottom is way too scary, anyone who does this is insane.
IHHN streamed it horizontally on normal at 120 FPS...and managed a streamturn perfectly
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Red Magic > Scarlet Gensokyo (Hard)
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I haven't played for quite some time. But one day I decided to play the easy modes just for a change of pace, and the prismrivers absolutely blasted me on easy. it was tragic!
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In Imperishable Night I've always found Marisa's Shoot The Moon to be way easier than Earth Light Ray. And as mentioned, Cirno's Hailstorm is a lot easier (or at least a lot less clippy) than Icicle Fall.
Just found my post about Extra/Phantasm, if it counts.
Blue Oni Red Oni > Protection of Zenki and Goki
Banquet for 12 Gods > Balance of Motion and Silence
Charming Siege > Xanadu of Straight and Curve
Princess Tenko > Yukari's Spiriting Away
Shikigami Chen > Shikigami Ran
etc
This post is full of truth
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Shouldn't icicle fall in normal be quite easy if you just stand in front of her and tap each time yellow bullets are fired? Might be scarier than the hard mode storm thingy though... I haven't played that much.
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icicle fall normal is in fact that easy. you can stand in front of her and tap left-right the whole time. she fires the bullets faster when you are close, but eh, what does that matter. you know shit is aimed
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I would like to mention Lyrica's second non (Marisa shots face her) on Easy is pretty tough. Harder than Lunatic in any case. More or less the same number of bullets but they move so slow that they clog up the screen really fast. Add that to the fact that Marisa moves pretty darn fast and isn't really made for micrododging...
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Hermit Sign "Emperor of the Land of the Rising Sun" is definitely easier than its normal counterpart. On normal, you often have to zigzag your way through the two waves which often leads to clipping; while the hard version lets you rush through all three in one go.
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Astronomical Entombing is hardest on Normal from what I find. On Hard and Lunatic the bullets are fast enough that they clear away, unlike in normal where you have to deal with new wave as well as carryover from previous wave.
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I think I found another: Reisen's 2nd nonspell, Hard/Lunatic. In the Lunatic version there are more bullets, but the bullets tend to line up in lanes that make it easier to find the gaps; the Hard version's gaps aren't as obvious.
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Not sure if it counts, since they're technically different spells, but i find Patchouli's "Rage Trilithon High Level" to be waaaayyy easier than "Rage Trilithon". The faster bullet movements just means larger gaps and they clear the screen faster.
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Personally i find that UFO Kogasa's last spellcard is harder on easy than on normal. On easy her bullets from different waves tend to overlap and you have to dodge it midstream, while on normal you can pretty much sit in one place and only move a little to the sides.