Maidens of the Kaleidoscope

~Hakurei Shrine~ => Help Me, Eirin! => High Score Entry! => Topic started by: Wriggle on March 21, 2013, 04:29:38 AM

Title: TAS scoreboard
Post by: Wriggle on March 21, 2013, 04:29:38 AM
Not sure if this kind of replay is allowed here or should be in HME instead... Anyway, unlike cheaters that try to pass TAS runs as legit, some people actually make good use of these tools by pushing the score beyond human limits and showing the games' true scoring "limit", and most of these runs takes a lot of effort. Some people like me find these runs really cool to watch, some don't, so I'm going to make this list thingy anyway. :V

The tool used is mostly Hourglass, known to be buggy and only work properly under specific conditions, and the savestate feature often causes crash after a few states are loaded. The only other safe way of TASing I know of is using Cheat Engine inside a VM with 3D enabled, so you can savestate safely yet have slowdown feature, but it'd probably take too long between each state load.

Due to limitations in the score counter, pushing the score too far in some games causes minor glitches. Reaching 999,999,990 points in EoSD stops the counter (doesn't happen in Karisa's video thanks to a cheat fix), PCB's spellcard bonus/cherrymax glitches and brings a wrong sprite after 100,000,000 is exceeded, and UFO's score counter "overflows" after 231 (2.147 billion), which can be delayed to 232 (4.29 billion) with Nereid's fix (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,12254.0.html).

---

Edit by Karisa:
From discussing this with Wriggle, I've concluded it's better to link to Arcorann's TAS wiki page (http://en.touhouwiki.net/wiki/User:Arcorann/High_Score_Almanac) instead of maintaining a list of various notable TASes here. Arcorann's page is both more actively updated, and more thorough.
Title: Re: TAS scoreboard
Post by: I have no name on March 21, 2013, 04:40:34 AM
Extra: kopiapoa - SanaeB - 8.73 billion - video (http://www.nicovideo.jp/watch/sm20344756)
You mean 873 million.

There's a survival oriented TAS of PCB ultra out there that sort of speedruns it (lots of shotgunning) without ever dying or bombing, though that definitely doesn't fit in here.
Title: Re: TAS scoreboard
Post by: Wriggle on March 21, 2013, 04:46:04 AM
You mean 873 million.

Oh right, my bad. :V
Title: Re: TAS scoreboard
Post by: Karisa on March 21, 2013, 05:12:29 AM
Arcorann has already been keeping track of these, here (http://en.touhouwiki.net/wiki/User:Arcorann/High_Score_Almanac#Tool-Assisted_Score_Records). No PCB Extra/Phantasm though.

Notable is that kopiapoa has TASed most of the Extras, but SA onward seem to crash at the end in Hourglass (which explains why the videos appear to be a direct recording rather than a replay). At least I've heard reports of them doing that. I've never used Hourglass myself.

I think Ansa121's latest UFO TAS is still slowdown-only like the previous ones; savestates should allow for much higher graze counts (maybe even a 400,000 maxed point item value) judging by the rest of the TAS replays/videos on Arcorann's page.

Regarding the display glitches, PCB's spell bonus glitches at 100,000,000. And to add to that, the cherry (not cherrymax) value also glitches at 1,000,000 (visible in non-TAS records) if the vsync patch is not used. And UFO's score counter overflows at 231 (2.147 billion), but using either the vsync patch or Nereid's fix will delay this overflow until 232 (4.29 billion).

And EoSD's score actually stops at 999,999,990, not 999,999,999 (yes it's minor but I find it relevant). I don't think this is just a glitch like the others; it seems to be intentional behavior. The later games stop at 9,999,999,990 instead (unconfirmed for StB/DS, confirmed for PCB/IN/PoFV/MoF/SA/UFO/GFW/TD, displayed as 1,410,065,398 in UFO/GFW).
Title: Re: TAS scoreboard
Post by: Wriggle on March 21, 2013, 05:40:46 AM
Damn, I didn't know about that page. Well, I grabbed some links from there, plus the actual score of SA Extra one. Thanks for the technical stuff, I fixed/included them.

About Kopiapoa's Extra, I'm not sure, but a possible cause for the crash could be him removing the bgm.dat when making the runs (I'm not fully sure if he removes the actual file or just reduces the bgm volume to 0), maybe because that file causes sync stuff or idk, I'm not experienced with Hourglass stuff (not sure if it's also notable that he uses Win XP, and all my bad experiences with Hourglass could be possibly because I used it in Win 7/8 x64). The crash could be fixed by using the OGG vorbis dlls, but there are even more likely to affect the sync, I don't now.

About PCB Extra/Phantasm, I remember someone adding a somewhat old TASed Extra replay to the High Scores page in Touhouwiki, being shortly afterwards reverted back by KyouriAsh, with him stating it was tool-assisted. I never got to watch it, but it might be still in the Edit History thing. But I gotta sleep now, I will look for it later.
Title: Re: TAS scoreboard
Post by: Avakyon on March 21, 2013, 05:55:13 AM
About PCB Extra/Phantasm, I remember someone adding a somewhat old TASed Extra replay to the High Scores page in Touhouwiki, being shortly afterwards reverted back by KyouriAsh, with him stating it was tool-assisted. I never got to watch it, but it might be still in the Edit History thing. But I gotta sleep now, I will look for it later.

The one I'm sure you mean is the run by mael, but not only is that a run that was trying to be passed as legit on RoyalFlare, it's a lower score than the current legit record by HS.

Title: Re: TAS scoreboard
Post by: Wriggle on March 21, 2013, 06:02:32 AM
That name kinda rings a bell, so I think you're right, thanks.
Title: Re: TAS scoreboard
Post by: Wriggle on May 28, 2013, 11:11:19 PM
So today Kopiapoa has uploaded some run on Stage 1 (http://www.nicovideo.jp/watch/sm20978604) of DDC, but I'm not sure if it's scoring (I don't really know how you're supposed to score in this game) or something else. If MarisaB scoreruns are gonna be like that, looks like she'll have by far the highest scoring potential, but idk what's a good or bad score in this game. Anyone? :V
Title: Re: TAS scoreboard
Post by: Shimatora on May 28, 2013, 11:22:19 PM
That is most certainly how Marisa B is used for scoring!
Title: Re: TAS scoreboard
Post by: ARF on May 29, 2013, 12:20:03 AM
So today Kopiapoa has uploaded some run on Stage 1 (http://www.nicovideo.jp/watch/sm20978604) of DDC, but I'm not sure if it's scoring (I don't really know how you're supposed to score in this game) or something else. If MarisaB scoreruns are gonna be like that, looks like she'll have by far the highest scoring potential, but idk what's a good or bad score in this game. Anyone? :V

I like how he only beat my best "legit" run of the stage by ~2 millions. Probably very suboptimal despite being very cool looking.
Title: Re: TAS scoreboard
Post by: Wriggle on May 29, 2013, 05:29:30 AM
I copied his circling for the first and third wave of her spellcard. :V

Seems like MarisaB's scoreruns will bring back the TD experience then. :V But at least despite being bombspammy I think the scoreruns will still be more entertaining than TD's given how they don't make the run too skippy, and you can even supergraze shit while the bomb is working for you.

Btw, does Royalflare take long to open up a scoreboard for a new Touhou game after the full version is out? (assuming they won't open it for a demo)

I like how he only beat my best "legit" run of the stage by ~2 millions. Probably very suboptimal despite being very cool looking.
Well, being just stage 1, spellcard captures are worth a lot, and he bombed every single one. I doubt bombing the last spellcard is even useful, it's not any dense. And most of the results of his "cool looking" stuff would be seen in the latter stages. But it's probably very unoptimal indeed.
Title: Re: TAS scoreboard
Post by: Karisa on May 29, 2013, 05:56:14 AM
I'm wondering if MarisaB's bomb will be modified in the full version, since even with the downside of it not making the player invincible (yes you can die during it, and you can't use another bomb either until the first one ends), right now it's basically worth a free life in the right places (example (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d_EGRwLQer8)). Perhaps power items should only appear if not at full power (or limit it to something too small for a bonus, like 15 power items, if you're at full power). That way it could only be used to gain life/bomb parts at the start of the game or after a death, which should prevent it from being broken.

Btw, does Royalflare take long to open up a scoreboard for a new Touhou game after the full version is out? (assuming they won't open it for a demo)
http://score.royalflare.net/th14/

Regarding your question, the oldest TD scores in Royalflare's TD record history (http://score.royalflare.net/th13/history13.html) were dated 2011-8-18, while the full game was released on 2011-8-13. So that's five days, if the history page started keeping track of scores immediately when the full-version scoreboard was opened.

Edit: Oh, on the topic of kopiapoa's stage 1 runs, I recall finding this (http://www.nicovideo.jp/watch/sm2068378). It's a ~2500 graze improvement over stage 1 of Ansa121's 5 billion TAS. I wonder how much of an overall improvement that would translate to, if the rest of the run was unchanged?
Title: Re: TAS scoreboard
Post by: Arcorann on May 29, 2013, 01:37:21 PM
I don't know the exact number, but I know that stage 4 to 6 have the equivalent of over 20,000 point items (don't remember what stages 2 and 3 have), which means that ~2500 graze equates to over 50 million, possibly 60 million improvement. I've also seen his supergraze on Ichirin which improves twice that much, by the way.
Title: Re: TAS scoreboard
Post by: Wriggle on May 30, 2013, 08:17:41 AM
More Kopiapoa stuff of DDC:
Part 1: http://www.nicovideo.jp/watch/sm20993690
Part 2: http://www.nicovideo.jp/watch/sm20993845

Buuuut I can't check them out right now due to ISP issues. :V
Title: Re: TAS scoreboard
Post by: Arcorann on May 30, 2013, 12:25:03 PM
If this doesn't convince ZUN to nerf MarisaB's bomb, nothing will. Seriously, he broke the life fragment counter.
Title: Re: TAS scoreboard
Post by: Karisa on May 30, 2013, 06:23:34 PM
My guess is that DDC still contains TD's gradually-increasing code, but with every requirement changed to 3. I recall encountering that glitch in TD as well. Of course, it was irrelevant there since TD has a hard limit on life parts, not enough to reach the 7th extend, and the glitch only occurs if you cheat to reach the 10th or so (I think, it's been a while since I tried).

By the way, can anyone translate kopiapoa's video description?
Title: Re: TAS scoreboard
Post by: Arcorann on May 31, 2013, 12:17:06 AM
It's basically referencing a meme in the Japanese TAS community: http://dic.nicovideo.jp/a/%E5%A4%9A%E5%88%86%E3%81%93%E3%82%8C%E3%81%8C%E4%B8%80%E7%95%AA%E6%97%A9%E3%81%84%E3%81%A8%E6%80%9D%E3%81%84%E3%81%BE%E3%81%99 (http://dic.nicovideo.jp/a/%E5%A4%9A%E5%88%86%E3%81%93%E3%82%8C%E3%81%8C%E4%B8%80%E7%95%AA%E6%97%A9%E3%81%84%E3%81%A8%E6%80%9D%E3%81%84%E3%81%BE%E3%81%99)

Apart from that it's standard stuff (hourglass-r81, 1136 rerecords, improves over the real-time record (http://www.nicovideo.jp/watch/sm20982697) by 17 extends).
Title: Re: TAS scoreboard
Post by: Wriggle on September 02, 2013, 02:11:57 AM
Updated DDC, MoF (updated Extra, added Normal and Easy), and several unassisted records.
Title: Re: TAS scoreboard
Post by: Karisa on September 02, 2013, 03:36:43 AM
The PCB TAS replay link now appears to link to kopiapoa's EoSD Extra replay for some reason. Didn't it link here (http://replays.gensokyou.org/download.php?id=22998) in the past?

(Also UKT's DDC score is with SakuyaB, not SakuyaA, not that it really matters since it'll probably be improved soon enough)
Title: Re: TAS scoreboard
Post by: Wriggle on September 02, 2013, 03:41:09 AM
Fixed both, thanks. The first was probably Ctrl+V shenanigans.
Title: Re: TAS scoreboard
Post by: Arcorann on September 14, 2013, 08:57:56 AM
IN:
*Extra - kopiapoa - 4,349,748,170 - Youmu - 17,115 - http://www1.axfc.net/uploader/so/3028043.dat?key=th08ExTAS (http://www1.axfc.net/uploader/so/3028043.dat?key=th08ExTAS) (Video (http://www.nicovideo.jp/watch/sm21825780))

Last I heard he was estimating 36, then 39. Must have underestimated the clear bonus or something.

Also, Honest Man's Death. Evidently the uber method isn't uber enough.
Title: Re: TAS scoreboard
Post by: Sakurei on September 14, 2013, 01:45:43 PM
link to the replay gives me 404 not found. am I doing something wrong when I click the link or is it already down, if yes, does anyone who somehow got the replay care to re-upload to mediafire or something?
Title: Re: TAS scoreboard
Post by: Wriggle on September 14, 2013, 02:51:31 PM
Yeah I noticed it on the twitter right as I woke up, but the link was down already. Could you reupload it Arcorann (or anyone else that managed to download before it was down)?
Title: Re: TAS scoreboard
Post by: fsvgm777 on September 14, 2013, 03:58:35 PM
Luckily, I could download it before the link went down.

Here's the reuploaded replay (http://replays.gensokyou.org/download.php?id=30373).
Title: Re: TAS scoreboard
Post by: Wriggle on September 14, 2013, 04:01:52 PM
Updated, thank you! :3
Title: Re: TAS scoreboard
Post by: Karisa on September 17, 2013, 02:21:14 AM
There's now a YouTube version (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MBur2U4Wrug) of kopiapoa's IN Extra TAS, for anyone who finds it more convenient to watch it there.
Title: Re: TAS scoreboard
Post by: Wriggle on September 17, 2013, 03:25:23 AM
Thanks for noticing. Added it to main post.
Title: Re: TAS scoreboard
Post by: Karisa on September 21, 2013, 05:03:41 AM
Lunatic: kopiapoa - MarisaB - 1,616,959,790 - Replay (https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/14636011/th14_udTAS.rpy) - More focused on getting Extends. Obsoleted by unassisted run.
Are you referring to the way the extend count is obsoleted by an unassisted run, or the score?

If it was the score (as it seems to be), I've recently found out that the extend count has also been obsoleted by an unassisted run. Judging by the extend count memory address (4F586C), it only gains 36 extends, while this replay (http://score.royalflare.net/th14/replay14/th14_ud02bf.rpy) manages to collect a full 49 extends, on Hard instead of Lunatic.

I think kopiapoa's replay was actually more focused on collecting life parts, not extends. It seems similar, but life parts are converted into bomb parts at full lives.
Title: Re: TAS scoreboard
Post by: Star King on September 21, 2013, 05:35:39 AM
Heh, the IN Extra TAS gets a bit more graze than the SA Extra TAS. Speaking of which, why didn't he fully graze Koishi's last two nonspells? He hadn't reached the 90k graze cap yet.
Title: Re: TAS scoreboard
Post by: Wriggle on September 21, 2013, 06:32:12 AM
Are you referring to the way the extend count is obsoleted by an unassisted run, or the score?

If it was the score (as it seems to be), I've recently found out that the extend count has also been obsoleted by an unassisted run. Judging by the extend count memory address (4F586C), it only gains 36 extends, while this replay (http://score.royalflare.net/th14/replay14/th14_ud02bf.rpy) manages to collect a full 49 extends, on Hard instead of Lunatic.

I think kopiapoa's replay was actually more focused on collecting life parts, not extends. It seems similar, but life parts are converted into bomb parts at full lives.

When the TAS was made it was the highest score out there, so it was obsoleted score-wise.

Heh, the IN Extra TAS gets a bit more graze than the SA Extra TAS. Speaking of which, why didn't he fully graze Koishi's last two nonspells? He hadn't reached the 90k graze cap yet.

Good question. Maybe it wouldn't affect the score that much since it'd only affect 2 row of point items (the last noncard that gave more graze would affect just 1). Still, not a big reason, and I also dunno how graze affects the clear bonus, if it even does. So the question is still open to me.  ???
Title: Re: TAS scoreboard
Post by: Karisa on September 21, 2013, 07:03:17 AM
SA graze doesn't affect the clear bonus. In Extra it's 40m * lives + 8m * power + 1000 * (left part of PIV). A no-death run that finishes with 4 power should have a clear bonus of around 515m, as far as I know.

As for why the IN Extra TAS has a higher graze count, remember than IN graze counts triple at -80%, and quite a lot of graze was accumulated in the stage portion (where there's no reason for Youmu to graze focused).
Title: Re: TAS scoreboard
Post by: Karisa on December 06, 2013, 03:26:03 PM
It seems kopiapoa has reached a score of 3,042,425,564 in DDC Lunatic (video: stage1 (http://www.nicovideo.jp/watch/sm22400338) 2 (http://www.nicovideo.jp/watch/sm22400435) 3 (http://www.nicovideo.jp/watch/sm22400515) 4 (http://www.nicovideo.jp/watch/sm22400588) 5 (http://www.nicovideo.jp/watch/sm22400701) 6 (http://www.nicovideo.jp/watch/sm22400774)), as well as 1,222,423,550 in DDC Extra (video (http://www.nicovideo.jp/watch/sm22400859)).

Notably, in the Lunatic run, 4 continues were used to build up additional PIV on Sekibanki. DDC is possibly the only game in the series where continuing can actually result in a higher score.
Title: Re: TAS scoreboard
Post by: Arcorann on December 16, 2013, 01:30:03 AM
Kemi's PCB EX 2.337B was uploaded a couple of days ago. (http://www1.axfc.net/u/3114501?key=YumeEx)

Video. (http://www.nicovideo.jp/watch/sm22446587)
Title: Re: TAS scoreboard
Post by: fsvgm777 on December 31, 2013, 06:00:22 PM
Kopiapoa reached a score of 6,795,505,260 points in SA Lunatic with ReimuC.

YouTube video (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eY6KWgqEEcY)
Title: Re: TAS scoreboard
Post by: Ranko Hoshino on December 31, 2013, 06:05:58 PM
The replay link on the wiki page is giving me a 404 error for the SA ReimuC run.
Title: Re: TAS scoreboard
Post by: Star King on December 31, 2013, 08:14:20 PM
The replay link on the wiki page is giving me a 404 error for the SA ReimuC run.

Speaking of unavailable replays, can somebody upload the PCB Extra TAS somewhere else? The ZIP file gives a "corrupted" message when I try to unzip it - possibly a language issue.
Title: Re: TAS scoreboard
Post by: Ranko Hoshino on December 31, 2013, 09:27:40 PM
Speaking of unavailable replays, can somebody upload the PCB Extra TAS somewhere else? The ZIP file gives a "corrupted" message when I try to unzip it - possibly a language issue.
Will this work?

http://www.mediafire.com/download/cwce1bao58k8695/th7_udKi01.rpy
Title: Re: TAS scoreboard
Post by: fsvgm777 on March 16, 2014, 07:47:13 PM
みるふ managed to cap the score counter in PCB Lunatic with MarisaA, as he reached a score of 10,180,331,240 points, and PCB caps at 9,999,999,990 points.

Video links (Nico Nico Douga):
Part 1 (http://www.nicovideo.jp/watch/sm23071038)
Part 2 (http://www.nicovideo.jp/watch/sm23072661)
Part 3 (http://www.nicovideo.jp/watch/sm23074206)
Part 4 (http://www.nicovideo.jp/watch/sm23078049)
Part 5 (http://www.nicovideo.jp/watch/sm23078231)

The link to the replay is in the description of the first part.
Title: Re: TAS scoreboard
Post by: Zil on March 16, 2014, 08:37:07 PM
holy shit
Title: Re: TAS scoreboard
Post by: Sakurei on March 16, 2014, 10:10:06 PM
Zil, you didn't know? we posted every fucking link in kusoplay, haha.

The run was amazing to watch. I loved the spellcard values. Delicious, delicious TAS
Title: Re: TAS scoreboard
Post by: Ranko Hoshino on March 17, 2014, 02:18:15 AM
I uploaded my own single video for the new TAS. You guys are cool with that, right?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WZ2MVHDolHY
Title: Re: TAS scoreboard
Post by: Jirachi on September 06, 2014, 07:32:15 AM
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Bw04E6RIEAAPvtq.jpg)

So after a while without nice TASes, Kopiapoa finished a full run on UFO Lunatic, with a total score of 6,613,087,980; scoring over 1.45 billion above Ansa's run! :getdown:

That shows the big difference between an un-rerecorded and a rerecorded run.

Replay (https://onedrive.live.com/?cid=5F605626EE9F58E5&id=5F605626EE9F58E5!4509). Hope he puts up a video link soon Video (http://www.nicovideo.jp/watch/sm24407973)

And for those who don't know, there's a bug in UFO that crashes the game if you get over 1 billion score from a single UFO, so it involves some point management too late in the game.
Title: Re: TAS scoreboard
Post by: Arcorann on May 03, 2015, 12:57:33 PM
Bump because I just discovered a TAS of SoEW Extra (http://www.nicovideo.jp/watch/sm25251309). Unsurprisingly, it scores much more than the realtime record. What I did find surprising, however, was that the number of point items collected stops at 128. Rather surprising to use a signed byte instead of an unsigned one here. The person's working on MS Extra and their current target score is 220 million.
Title: Re: TAS scoreboard
Post by: KirbyComment on May 03, 2015, 05:09:55 PM
Bump because I just discovered a TAS of SoEW Extra (http://www.nicovideo.jp/watch/sm25251309). Unsurprisingly, it scores much more than the realtime record. What I did find surprising, however, was that the number of point items collected stops at 128. Rather surprising to use a signed byte instead of an unsigned one here. The person's working on MS Extra and their current target score is 220 million.
Wow! That is just insane. To mention, the part where the purple birds fly towards you is where you get the most amount of points in the stage by far and it looks like TAS just manipulated the RNG to be perfect. In real time you can't do that, plus ReimuA makes that section alot riskier in real time, hence why the WR is done with ReimuB.

It's interesting to see that these games can be TASed. I'm honestly especially curious how high of a score TAS could get in PoDD...  :3
Title: Re: TAS scoreboard
Post by: Zil on May 03, 2015, 05:53:02 PM
Whatever the counterstop is. Wouldn't be very interesting to see, imo.

I'm a bit surprised to hear the target in MS Extra is only 220, as I'd say 210 is within human limits. It would be cool to see how he times the cancels on Alice at least.
Title: Re: TAS scoreboard
Post by: Karisa on May 03, 2015, 07:50:51 PM
I wish SoEW's score counted up faster. Interesting just how high TAS luck manipulation can take it-- in hindsight it's not too surprising given how luck-based the stage is in real-time play.

That reminds me, there's a TAS of SoEW Lunatic (Part 1 (http://www.nicovideo.jp/watch/sm24622676), 2 (http://www.nicovideo.jp/watch/sm24626573), 3 (http://www.nicovideo.jp/watch/sm24642685)) that wasn't posted here earlier, also by メタモルフォーゼ ("Metamorphose", if I'm reading the katakana correctly). It reaches a score of 47,460,500, but strangely enough, it seems to be of a 3-stage demo. I never realized the PC-98 games even had demos.

Also, if I recall correctly, Emerald posted an unrecorded TAS score of HRtP (using one of the emulators' built-in savestates) before, reaching around 18 million.

I'm curious how high the PC-98 games can go on Lunatic (well PoDD would probably just manipulate first-round Yumemi to last indefinitely, but the others). Aside from HRtP they don't even have serious real-time scores yet to compare to...
Title: Re: TAS scoreboard
Post by: Uruwi on May 05, 2015, 05:01:02 AM
Bump because I just discovered a TAS of SoEW Extra (http://www.nicovideo.jp/watch/sm25251309). Unsurprisingly, it scores much more than the realtime record. What I did find surprising, however, was that the number of point items collected stops at 128. Rather surprising to use a signed byte instead of an unsigned one here. The person's working on MS Extra and their current target score is 220 million.

Why is the player trying to graze lots of bullets? I've never heard of anything involving graze.
Title: Re: TAS scoreboard
Post by: Emerald Mint on May 05, 2015, 05:18:30 AM
Why is the player trying to graze lots of bullets? I've never heard of anything involving graze.
For entertainment purposes, especially where the grazing will lead to no loss or gain of points.

Also, on the subject of my December TAS, I'll share my screenshot for those who weren't in IRC at the time. There's a good chance it can exceed 18M. I spent my time and effort clearing Makai, so Jigoku is an uncertainty, although it seemed trickier.
The improvements that could be made are a few sacrifices for time bonus, as well as clearing the stages quicker than before and interestingly enough, final boss bullet cancels.

I was also able to produce actual recordings of some perfect stages on another test run being done at 60fps (unlike my 30fps TAS), although the emulator crashed later on and caused the savestates to glitch out. It's generally impossible to perfect under normal conditions due to RNG, thus the emu savestates preserve the saved RNG.

Looks like NP might work better with TAS utilities than my easymode approach, although I can't find any resources on HRtP TAS runs myself.
Title: Re: TAS scoreboard
Post by: Arcorann on June 02, 2015, 02:22:31 AM
Bump because I just updated my TAS scoreboard with this:

MS:
* Extra - メタモルフォーゼ (2015-06-02) - 257,949,630 - Mima - 25763 - http://www.nicovideo.jp/watch/sm26381282 (http://www.nicovideo.jp/watch/sm26381282)

No miss, no bomb. Even with perfect play he still only gets a rating of 194.95 points on the evaluation screen.
Title: Re: TAS scoreboard
Post by: KirbyComment on June 02, 2015, 10:43:33 PM
Dang! That looks amazing. I'm looking forward to the full-game TAS (a.k.a Lunatic)
Title: Re: TAS scoreboard
Post by: Uruwi on June 02, 2015, 11:44:11 PM
Bump because I just updated my TAS scoreboard with this:

MS:
* Extra - メタモルフォーゼ (2015-06-02) - 257,949,630 - Mima - 25763 - http://www.nicovideo.jp/watch/sm26381282 (http://www.nicovideo.jp/watch/sm26381282)

No miss, no bomb. Even with perfect play he still only gets a rating of 194.95 points on the evaluation screen.

What happens if you reach 360 million?
Title: Re: TAS scoreboard
Post by: KirbyComment on December 04, 2015, 02:34:37 PM
After coming back to SoEW scoring again, I decided to take a look at the runs that would use continues (so basically the TAS).

I figured out that you can get Full Power from just the very first set of enemies alone. You have to kill yourself at 0 lives which drops 5 S-Power Items, then you use a continue and kill 2 enemies per Game Over, which gives you a total of 11 S-Power Items, and 8 of those will give you Full Power (tested on Normal Mode) (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oY5IYvnCNFw). You can't use 3 continues in a row and then kill 6 enemies. That'll just give you 2 extra S-Power Items.

So doing this for Lunatic would make you lose 2 Point Items I think, but you'd gain points from the Power Items, allowing you to make this value 12,800x4 very quickly. The clear bonus will be lower Point Item-wise, but I'm pretty sure your rank will make the Stage value higher and also the Lives value due to getting one or more extra extends from the extra score, so that should make up for the lost score. I think this would be the most optimal strategy for TAS.
Title: Re: TAS scoreboard
Post by: Arcorann on December 05, 2015, 07:40:06 AM
The wiki seems to have a record level of 504s right now.

Anyway, SoEW Lunatic 84,250,420: http://www.nicovideo.jp/watch/sm27624547 (http://www.nicovideo.jp/watch/sm27624547)
Title: Re: TAS scoreboard
Post by: KirbyComment on December 05, 2015, 11:00:44 AM
Well that surely is interesting. Instead of using continues to get Full Power really early, it instead uses max resources to get more Point Items from the suicides. Though that does lower the clear bonuses a bit, though I'd assume you gain more score from the Point Items. I'm kind of confused as to why he pacifies the Flower Tank's second last phase for like an hour.
Title: Re: TAS scoreboard
Post by: Uruwi on December 05, 2015, 02:49:20 PM
Well that surely is interesting. Instead of using continues to get Full Power really early, it instead uses max resources to get more Point Items from the suicides. Though that does lower the clear bonuses a bit, though I'd assume you gain more score from the Point Items. I'm kind of confused as to why he pacifies the Flower Tank's second last phase for like an hour.

Perhaps to explain some mechanics in the video.
Title: Re: TAS scoreboard
Post by: Karisa on December 06, 2015, 02:32:35 AM
I'm kind of confused as to why he pacifies the Flower Tank's second last phase for like an hour.
I'm guessing rank slowly increases over time, so stalling on the first boss maxes out the rank for the clear bonus?
Title: Re: TAS scoreboard
Post by: KirbyComment on December 06, 2015, 09:52:28 AM
I'm guessing rank slowly increases over time, so stalling on the first boss maxes out the rank for the clear bonus?

That's what I assumed, considering the rank was maxed out (6,400) when the stage finishes. Seems kind of weird, and also how you have to wait it out for such a long time, but yeah rank would be my best guess too...
Title: Re: TAS scoreboard
Post by: KirbyComment on January 01, 2016, 05:28:38 PM
So someone directed me to this TAS of the demo version of LLS (http://www.nicovideo.jp/watch/sm27736073).

The demo seems to have one very interesting difference. That being that there's no graze cap, allowing this run to get graze numbers way into the thousands. This run also Game Overs at 99,999,990 on purpose, so I assume the demo didn't have a way to display values above that and maybe in the demo the game would crash or something if it went above that number. It's also pretty cool to see the differences in this demo version in general, as some visual effects and some patterns seem to be alot different.
Title: Re: TAS scoreboard
Post by: Das on January 01, 2016, 06:21:01 PM
Glad to see you posted this here (Its Pearlescent v: )

However I find it odd how that TAS isnt on Arcorann's page, maybe it's due to it being the trial version and not the full game, but I atleast expected a notable mention of sorts somewhere.
I'm not sure if the game crashes past 100m or he just decided to game over at 99,999,990 on purpose to be cheeky. Perhaps someone could possibly look into this?

It'd be interesting to see what the full game would be like if there was no graze cap. I can imagine scores being much higher if this was the case.
Title: Re: TAS scoreboard
Post by: Karisa on January 01, 2016, 06:41:23 PM
I'm not sure if the game crashes past 100m or he just decided to game over at 99,999,990 on purpose to be cheeky. Perhaps someone could possibly look into this?
This is the same player メタモルフォーゼ (Metamorphose) as the other PC-98 TASes, so they'd clearly know that LLS and MS go into letter scores from 100m onward. I'd assume either this demo crashes, or loops back to 0 after 99,999,990.

Maybe the description explains it? I barely know any Japanese, and Google Translate didn't really help, but from looking up the kanji, I think this says that the 9th digit of the score is invisible?
Quote
④スコアの9桁目が存在しない
Title: Re: TAS scoreboard
Post by: Das on January 01, 2016, 07:09:03 PM
This is the same player メタモルフォーゼ (Metamorphose) as the other PC-98 TASes, so they'd clearly know that LLS and MS go into letter scores from 100m onward. I'd assume either this demo crashes, or loops back to 0 after 99,999,990.

Maybe the description explains it? I barely know any Japanese, and Google Translate didn't really help, but from looking up the kanji, I think this says that the 9th digit of the score is invisible?

A fair guess would be to say that the score would roll over to 0. Because if the 9th digit is invisible, that means that the score would be displayed like this 1[00,000,000] (The numbers in the brackets referring to the ones seen ingame)

Also what he did is like what people would do in arcades because high scores would not roll over with the current player's score (Pac-Man would show a high score of 999,990 even if the player got a perfect games) So he got the highest possible score without rolling over, which is 99,999,990.

Just my guess.
Title: Re: TAS scoreboard
Post by: Karisa on January 03, 2016, 08:14:13 PM
OK, now that I've found the time to watch the run-- I find it interesting that the TAS uses ReimuB. Seemed like an odd choice at first to use the weak spread shot (though notably LLS Marisa isn't any faster), but it seems ReimuB is powerful at close range, with TAS dodging and LLS's lack of boss contact hitboxes.

Also this demo gives 3 bombs per life compared with the full version's 2 (no free bomb at the end of each stage though). Interesting how TAS grazing seems to be worth more than bombing the latter half of stage 2, despite that. (Or maybe it's not worth more, and the TAS was avoiding points by then to avoid passing 99,999,990.)

I see the LLS demo doesn't properly display an 8th digit on stage clear bonuses, which I guess was fixed. I wonder why the stage graze cap was added, though... scoring would've been more interesting without it (particularly in Extra).

I'd like to see a full-game TAS, anyway. Not sure if Metamorphose will bother, considering the graze cap, but there's still manipulating point items to appear near the top of the screen (when not bombed) like in the SoEW TAS, and maximizing bullet cancel bonuses...
Title: Re: TAS scoreboard
Post by: Arcorann on January 04, 2016, 12:38:44 PM
Judging from the text at the beginning of the video, it's what Karisa said - the score rolls over at 99,999,990 so he gets a game over there.

I was waiting for the full version TAS to be released before adding it to the list, though maybe it is a good idea to put in the trial version.

Also, kopiapoa's working on LoLK Extra. [strike]Current target score is close to 2 billion, by the looks of his Twitter.[/strike] Misread tweets.

Testrun is out. (https://youtu.be/Tj6oZBbtod0)
Title: Re: TAS scoreboard
Post by: Uruwi on March 13, 2016, 10:47:25 AM
DDC Lunatic, 9,999,999,990. (http://www.nicovideo.jp/watch/sm28411750)

Yes, I'm serious.
Title: Re: TAS scoreboard
Post by: Arcorann on March 13, 2016, 12:15:42 PM
Oh hey DDC uses unsigned int for its score. I still remember people getting negative scores in SA, but that was a signed int.
Title: Re: TAS scoreboard
Post by: Karisa on March 14, 2016, 12:05:13 AM
That wasn't what I expected.

Is that even TAS-only? Seems like it could be done in a real-time run-- might need to disallow the glitch from scoreboards, if it turns out to be doable.

I think the score's been unsigned at least since TD (can't test right now). I recall being able to force the score to over 42 billion there when finding addresses, though score normally caps at 9,999,999,990 in PCB+ games (displayed as 1,410,065,398 in UFO and GFW).

Maybe the actual score was made unsigned when attempting to fix the UFO/GFW overflow? Though those games actually overflow the displayed score, probably in the routine that inserts commas (considering the commas were first added in UFO, and the actual score is displayed correctly when commas aren't included, such as on the replay stage-by-stage scores).
Title: Re: TAS scoreboard
Post by: Avakyon on March 14, 2016, 12:22:21 AM
There is a spell practice replay of it here (http://replay.royalflare.net/replay2/th14_ud0101.rpy). It only requires getting damage in quickly so you can spend as much time as possible slowing it down.
Title: Re: TAS scoreboard
Post by: Karisa on March 14, 2016, 12:38:08 AM
Looking at it more closely now that you mention that, I noticed the TAS also managed to reach 3 power without gaining many points (only around 114500 when the bonus was -117260), which might've been needed to deal the damage quickly enough?
Title: Re: TAS scoreboard
Post by: Mino ☆ on March 14, 2016, 06:31:56 AM
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CdfJvvWUIAAggZU.jpg:large)

I actually managed to pull this off in spell practice without any tool assistance. Basically SakuyaA's knives slow down the spell timer, so if you hold your knives on her until just before the spell ends, you can kill the spell as the bonus decreases into the negative integers.

Idk if this can be done in a full run though. You'd have to be able to get the bonus low enough to put your own score into the negatives, which means your score has to be very low going into the spell. You'd also need power to do it, which could be risky to gather while there's point items everywhere.
Title: Re: TAS scoreboard
Post by: Uruwi on March 14, 2016, 11:35:47 AM
It might be possible in the main game if you shoot carefully, get mostly power items, and get multiple negative spell bonuses. What TAS is doing, though, is near impossible for a human player.

The Extra stage, in contrast, gives you full power from the start so you can just pacify the game until you get a negative SCB (presumably on the Tsukumo sisters' card).
Title: Re: TAS scoreboard
Post by: Karisa on March 14, 2016, 12:10:58 PM
I wonder if this works on lower difficulties? It'd be more feasible to reach 3 power without collecting point items that way... The starting bonus wouldn't be as high though (for example, 3 million on Easy compared to 9 million on Lunatic), so the spell bonus wouldn't decrease as quickly.

Also, a few more points could be saved by timing out the boss nonspells rather than speedkilling them.
Title: Re: TAS scoreboard
Post by: Uruwi on March 14, 2016, 12:40:25 PM
I wonder if this works on lower difficulties? It'd be more feasible to reach 3 power without collecting point items that way... The starting bonus wouldn't be as high though (for example, 3 million on Easy compared to 9 million on Lunatic), so the spell bonus wouldn't decrease as quickly.

Also, a few more points could be saved by timing out the boss nonspells rather than speedkilling them.

Well, there are fewer bullets, but also still the enemies that drop both power and point items.

I also think NNN was trying to achieve 10b as quickly as possible, but didn't do that on an earlier spell because 3.00 was the minimum amount of power needed to get a negative SCB.
Title: Re: TAS scoreboard
Post by: Mino ☆ on March 14, 2016, 04:49:18 PM
I hear that the reason the score goes into counterstop is because the score goes from 0  to 42.9bil (the maximum or something). And if you go above that point again, the score will loop over back to 0.

With just the stage clear bonuses, that's enough to push the score back over to 0. It's a bit disappointing, because I think it would have been cool to actually see a run 1cc with this glitch and counterstop but it appears it's probably not possible.

Still though. This is a pretty interesting oversight by ZUN. If only for the fact that it's possible to do even with legitimate means in spell practice.
Title: Re: TAS scoreboard
Post by: Karisa on March 14, 2016, 06:00:50 PM
I'm pretty sure the game sets the score to 9,999,999,990 if it detects it's higher. Also consider that the TAS gained (lost?) barely enough points to underflow, but the stage clear bonus of 3 million did not overflow the score back to ~2,993,000.
Title: Re: TAS scoreboard
Post by: Mino ☆ on March 14, 2016, 06:05:59 PM
That is true. I suppose then the person who told me that might have been wrong.

If that is true however, I wonder how someone would be able to manage to manipulate Wakasagihime's final spell without the use of TAS, as from what I see, it's rather dangerous...
Title: Re: TAS scoreboard
Post by: Karisa on March 15, 2016, 03:40:27 PM
I also think NNN was trying to achieve 10b as quickly as possible, but didn't do that on an earlier spell because 3.00 was the minimum amount of power needed to get a negative SCB.
Another thought-- notice how during the boss explosion, the timer stops but the spell bonus keeps decreasing. I think this might only work on boss final spells because of that.

I wonder if ZUN planned it so the spell bonus would never reach 0 even when slowed, but forgot to consider that extra time... Then again, if he was considering potential negative bonuses he'd probably just have set a minimum of 10, like in GFW.

Edit: Someone's done it on Easy (http://replay.royalflare.net/replay2/th14_ud0110.rpy)? (on mobile now, can't check)
Title: Re: TAS scoreboard
Post by: Uruwi on March 15, 2016, 05:48:58 PM
Another thought-- notice how during the boss explosion, the timer stops but the spell bonus keeps decreasing. I think this might only work on boss final spells because of that.

Actually not, as the description for this video (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pp7h7qPK-t0) indicates.

Quote
I wonder if ZUN planned it so the spell bonus would never reach 0 even when slowed, but forgot to consider that extra time... Then again, if he was considering potential negative bonuses he'd probably just have set a minimum of 10, like in GFW.

Edit: Someone's done it on Easy (http://replay.royalflare.net/replay2/th14_ud0110.rpy)? (on mobile now, can't check)

That's also on spell practice.
Title: Re: TAS scoreboard
Post by: KirbyComment on July 31, 2016, 12:03:31 AM
The LLS Demo TAS (http://www.nicovideo.jp/watch/sm29161617) went all out this time. Also to prove that the score does indeed roll over to 0 if the score exceeds 99,999,990. The graze can also even exceed 9999, terrifying. Though it seems you can't go higher than 13,107 graze, because the clear bonus on the graze can only go up to 655,350. This TAS seems to score 371,233,420 if the score past 99,999,990 was counted towards the final score.

EDIT: Actually if I count the last clear bonus up, the bonus is a total of 141,050,910 (the square value equalling 141), so that would put the score up to 399,342,570. Despite the game thinking it went up to (3)71,233,420. I wonder why it only counted up 112,941,760 from the clear bonus...
Title: Re: TAS scoreboard
Post by: Karisa on July 31, 2016, 07:34:40 AM
EDIT: Actually if I count the last clear bonus up, the bonus is a total of 141,050,910 (the square value equalling 141), so that would put the score up to 399,342,570. Despite the game thinking it went up to (3)71,233,420. I wonder why it only counted up 112,941,760 from the clear bonus...
It's adding 12.9m, not 112.9m-- the score never loops a third time. Seems to be the same glitch that caps Extra scores in the full version, where the clear bonus never actually adds more than about 25.4 million due to the time it takes for the score to count up.

Also since the game gives direct points for grazing, a capped clear bonus wouldn't be a reason to stop grazing. I suspect the graze part of the clear bonus actually resets to 0 beyond 13107 graze.
Title: Re: TAS scoreboard
Post by: Arcorann on August 18, 2016, 08:35:45 AM
Extra - みるふ (2016-08-18) - 920,799,110 - ReimuB - 27,822 - Replay pending (Video (http://www.nicovideo.jp/watch/sm29465602))

Mirufu goes above and beyond once again, with an improvement of nearly 75 million.
Title: Re: TAS scoreboard
Post by: Uruwi on May 21, 2017, 09:22:50 AM
HSiFS trial 3085 million (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JhXw-Xjbg-0)
Title: Re: TAS scoreboard
Post by: KirbyComment on August 17, 2017, 12:10:27 AM
Kopiapoa did the full game HSiFS TAS (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zdEvj5RFdFI) already and unsurprisingly scores 9,999,999,990.
Title: Re: TAS scoreboard
Post by: KirbyComment on January 22, 2018, 01:05:08 PM
Patience is rewarded. Kopiapoa finished the LoLK Extra TAS after about 2 years. Final score is 2,429,908,660.
YouTube (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SsKddT0Fufc) - Nicovideo (http://www.nicovideo.jp/watch/sm32620400) - Replay (http://replay.lunarcast.net/replay/th15_ud0034.rpy)
Title: Re: TAS scoreboard
Post by: KirbyComment on August 15, 2019, 10:54:28 AM
WBaWC Youmu-Otter TAS 9,999,999,990 by kopiapoa. Replay desyncs upon Stage 4 midboss death because it doesn't get the hidden token for some reason and also desyncs at Stage 5 midboss. The TAS seems to also have been made using version 1.00a because who knows why.
YouTube (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yrX5P4A36vQ) - Nicovideo (https://www.nicovideo.jp/watch/sm35542890) - Replay (http://replay.lunarcast.net/replay/th17_ud0550.rpy)
Title: Re: TAS scoreboard
Post by: KirbyComment on August 19, 2019, 03:04:40 PM
WBaWC Youmu-Otter TAS (testrun) 2,088,380,050 by kopiapoa.
Replay (http://replay.lunarcast.net/replay/th17_ud0560.rpy)