Author Topic: MotK Mafioso Mafia! Over  (Read 60812 times)

Serela

  • Moon Tiara Magic
  • VIA PIZZA SLINGING
Re: MotK Mafioso Mafia! Over
« Reply #630 on: April 29, 2010, 09:41:25 PM »
I suppose it isn't THAT bad of an idea, as long as you don't have a whole lot of players, and town has a few nice abilities. Maybe along with a pseudo-night phase at the start where Town can use their abilities and Scum can't NK yet. Because seriously, unless a Vigilante got lucky or something, you'd have to not mislynch for the entire game...
<mauvecow> see this is how evil works in reality, it just wears you down with bureaucracy until you don't care anymore

Edible

  • One part the F?hrer, one part the Pope
  • *
  • It's the inevitable return, baby
Re: MotK Mafioso Mafia! Over
« Reply #631 on: April 29, 2010, 09:42:52 PM »
I don't recall using it ???

Crawl, dude. <_<

Town was technically in LYLO the whole time!

Pesco

  • Trickster Rabbit Tewi
  • *
  • Make a yukkuri and take it easy with me
Re: MotK Mafioso Mafia! Over
« Reply #632 on: April 29, 2010, 09:44:41 PM »
No. It's very bad

Crawl was timer based. You were not in LyLo for at least 72 hours.

Edible

  • One part the F?hrer, one part the Pope
  • *
  • It's the inevitable return, baby
Re: MotK Mafioso Mafia! Over
« Reply #633 on: April 29, 2010, 09:47:29 PM »
That's really only a technicality. >_>

Kefit

  • The Wild Draw Four of America
Re: MotK Mafioso Mafia! Over
« Reply #634 on: April 29, 2010, 09:48:15 PM »
Kefit: I present myself the way I do because "assume scum -> find evidence" is not a valid scumhunting tactic, which is largely what speculation like "but what if this happened?" is.

The scumhunting tactic that you employ has nothing to do with the way you choose to present your case.

The problem is that you have to make other people listen to you and do what you say or your scumhunting is meaningless. I automatically assume that, when someone presents a tightly focused case against an individual, that this person has looked at each player during pre-post analysis and is now presenting the case that they find most compelling. Even if you must focus on several people or cases, it helps to interject some wit or styling to make your post more readable. A giant glob of short sentences comprising a case, while perhaps containing sterling logic, is not something that anyone wants to read or be impressed by.

I often employ Edible's "assume everyone is scum --> find evidence" strategy and then look for the cases that simply make the most sense. Perhaps I should state this more explicitly when I make my cases from now on that seem to rely to circular logic.

Carthrat

  • HITLER OF LURKERS
  • MEIN MAIDENKAMPF
Re: MotK Mafioso Mafia! Over
« Reply #635 on: April 29, 2010, 10:05:49 PM »
@Kefit: There were 4 clear lurkers come day 2. 3/4 were scum. I happened to pick the 1/4 that wasn't. Also, people lynched that person because I was really persuasive.

So. I have faith in my strategy, and if I occasionally get fucked by not quite being nuanced enough or unlucky now and then, I'm fine with that, perils of mafia, etc.

Kefit

  • The Wild Draw Four of America
Re: MotK Mafioso Mafia! Over
« Reply #636 on: April 29, 2010, 10:18:19 PM »
Yeah, I applauded your persuasiveness. Your posts were a great mix of good persuasion + good reasoning. I doubt I'll ever agree with lynching all lurkers (unless it becomes standard meta), but that was only one part of your reasoning through the game.

Kefit

  • The Wild Draw Four of America
Re: MotK Mafioso Mafia! Over
« Reply #637 on: April 29, 2010, 11:28:50 PM »
Hahahahahahahahahahaha oh god. Kilga's SUPER MAFIA MYSTERY BONUS CONTENT redeems every negative aspect of this thread.

Yes, the video was so good that this deserved its own post.

Kilgamayan

  • True
  • *
  • The Real Treasure Is You
    • Let's Play Super Marisa World
Re: MotK Mafioso Mafia! Over
« Reply #638 on: April 30, 2010, 01:07:24 AM »
The scumhunting tactic that you employ has nothing to do with the way you choose to present your case.

The problem is that you have to make other people listen to you and do what you say or your scumhunting is meaningless. I automatically assume that, when someone presents a tightly focused case against an individual, that this person has looked at each player during pre-post analysis and is now presenting the case that they find most compelling. Even if you must focus on several people or cases, it helps to interject some wit or styling to make your post more readable. A giant glob of short sentences comprising a case, while perhaps containing sterling logic, is not something that anyone wants to read or be impressed by.

The alternative is to put forth an entire paragraph - possibly more - covering every single point I wanted to address, and more words are less likely to convince people of your case, simply because they aren't going to want to read all that shit. Attention spans will invariably wander. Look at the length of that post again. If I had discussed every single point I wanted to discuss about Serela in detail, then you could remove absolutely everything else and it would still be longer than it is now.

If I have to choose between deluge of pretty words and deluge of evidence, I'm going to choose the latter 100% of the time.
[22:40:12] <Drake> "guys i donwloaded esod but its not workan"
[22:40:21] <Drake> REPORTED
[22:40:25] <NaturallyOccurringChoja> PROBATED
[22:40:30] <Drake> ORGASM
[22:40:32] <NaturallyOccurringChoja> FUCK YEAH

[22:28:39] <Edible> Mafia would be a much easier game if we were playing "spot the asshole"

Kefit

  • The Wild Draw Four of America
Re: MotK Mafioso Mafia! Over
« Reply #639 on: April 30, 2010, 01:32:03 AM »
I'm saying that it's possible to mix the two styles.

Mafia has some intriguing similarities to real world trials. While trial lawyers have been trained to think very logically, they must nonetheless couch their language in ways that have a meaningful affect upon their audience - the jury. The jury, while generally composed of intelligent and mostly rational human beings, is nonetheless a group of individuals placed in the uncomfortable position of deciding the fate of another person on the basis of incomplete information. They are vulnerable to persuasive techniques. Even judges in bench trials are vulnerable to subtle persuasive techniques and can have their mood towards a case altered by a sufficiently well presented argument.

One's position vis-a-vis other townies in a game of mafia is much the same. All of the evidence in the world isn't going to mean anything if the other townies don't care about it. While one's ideal may be that all of us ignore rhetoric, that is not the reality.

ps I just used "vis-a-vis" in an internet post without even thinking about it. What the fuck has law school done to me ;_;

Kilgamayan

  • True
  • *
  • The Real Treasure Is You
    • Let's Play Super Marisa World
Re: MotK Mafioso Mafia! Over
« Reply #640 on: April 30, 2010, 01:40:03 AM »
How would you have done it for that case, then?
[22:40:12] <Drake> "guys i donwloaded esod but its not workan"
[22:40:21] <Drake> REPORTED
[22:40:25] <NaturallyOccurringChoja> PROBATED
[22:40:30] <Drake> ORGASM
[22:40:32] <NaturallyOccurringChoja> FUCK YEAH

[22:28:39] <Edible> Mafia would be a much easier game if we were playing "spot the asshole"

Kefit

  • The Wild Draw Four of America
Re: MotK Mafioso Mafia! Over
« Reply #641 on: April 30, 2010, 02:25:32 AM »
I would have cleaned it up stylistically. What you wrote is a strange mix of short, pithy sentences and long jumbled sentences. These need to be fleshed out and pruned for clarity, respectively. Make use of transitions to explicitly indicate that one point is leading into another. It is imperative that a persuasive piece read naturally; otherwise it will tire the reader, souring the audience towards your case. Ideally, the presentation of a case should employ a narrative that smoothly carries the reader from beginning to end. At any given point in the case I should have some idea of how a given piece of evidence ties into the story that you are telling.

Reading the post again, I suspect that it was largely written as a stream of consciousness as you reread the thread, which resulted in key implications not being fully explained. One important element of a persuasive legal document is that it always explains the implications that it brings up, because you can't count on your audience to make the connections themselves. In this case, I doubt that everyone agrees on, or is even aware of, every single scum tell that you may have seen in the scummy behavior that you pointed out.

The overall structure of the post - specifically, dealing with multiple cases - is more difficult to handle. Normally I'd just say to pick your best case and go with it. Learned appellate judges beg lawyers to limit the issues they raise to those that are truly important to the case at hand. However, I realize now that this was a unique case. You were a ghost, and did not know when you would disappear. It makes sense that you would want to get all your cases out there. I think, if I had been in your shoes, I might have separated each case into a different post. Or maybe I would have saved the weaker cases for a post made later on in the day, prior to the hammer. However, I will back away from this point, because I forgot about your ghost status at the time when I made the initial criticism.

Kilgamayan

  • True
  • *
  • The Real Treasure Is You
    • Let's Play Super Marisa World
Re: MotK Mafioso Mafia! Over
« Reply #642 on: April 30, 2010, 02:32:42 AM »
Actually, I think this stems into something else that the ghost status was irrelevant for. I believe that one should present all their information as they get it, partially because the earlier it comes, the more time people have to look at it, and partially because it can avoid parroting accusations. In this case, it probably would have been better to put the Serela case on top and then use my triple-dash dividers to indicate "Other Less Important Cases That Should Nonetheless Be Looked At". I tend to present multiple cases in a single post regardless of my life status, because I'm a firm believer in giving town the most time to form the most informed opinions.
[22:40:12] <Drake> "guys i donwloaded esod but its not workan"
[22:40:21] <Drake> REPORTED
[22:40:25] <NaturallyOccurringChoja> PROBATED
[22:40:30] <Drake> ORGASM
[22:40:32] <NaturallyOccurringChoja> FUCK YEAH

[22:28:39] <Edible> Mafia would be a much easier game if we were playing "spot the asshole"

FinnKaenbyou

  • Formerly Roukanken
  • *
  • blub blub nya