Author Topic: INVASION! (Game Over, Nobody Wins)  (Read 81249 times)

Kitten4u

  • Ochophobic
  • *
  • Too cute to kill
Re: INVASION! (Day 1) - Suspicion~
« Reply #270 on: September 18, 2009, 01:58:06 AM »
I have a doctor's appointment tomorrow, which means that I haven't eaten in awhile again, so I'm not feeling particularly great right now.

My top two picks for today are Anthony and Rou.  If you want details just ask for them.  I'm okay with a VGT lynch.  I might be able to be persuaded to go for Suwako, Nietz or Pesco, but I think the cases on Anthony, Rou and VGT are better.

Since it doesn't look like my choices are going anywhere and I'm not sure how long I'll be on I'll move my vote.

##Unvote
##Vote: VGameT
My favorite mythical creature? The honest politician.
A life cool.. where can I download one of those?
Hurray for apathy!

DA|Tumblr

Nietz

  • NEETz
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  • Normal Person
Re: INVASION! (Day 1) - Suspicion~
« Reply #271 on: September 18, 2009, 02:28:52 AM »
Looking at Nietz' point that I'm flinging whatever sticks, so tell me then. How many of the points I've brought up against my targets are valid and how many are invalid? List them ALL for us.
If you can't discern your own points, don't expect me to do it for you. Especially since in lieu of actual arguments you've been mostly dropping baits, recycling opinions and overall going with the flow. I've already summarized the case here and here, and nothing has changed about your attitude since then, just some added provoking of Rou, obligatory attack on Suwako and overall scummy smugness.

Nietz is bad and she should feel bad. Sticking with an early D1 case is bad and she should feel bad. 
It's not like he would stop being scum in the middle of the day. The point is still, if not more valid than before.
Unfortunately, it doesn't look like we can get a pesco lynch today. Meh, I'm kind of agreeing with Suwako now. Town is too engrossed with finding easy lynches for Day 1 to look out for actual scummy behaviour.

Vibri

  • yo, the beats are strong
  • but the night is long
Re: INVASION! (Day 1) - Suspicion~
« Reply #272 on: September 18, 2009, 03:05:00 AM »
lol catfight up ins
get it because one's shou and the other one is orin.  it's a touhou joke

Yo Suwako that's a great post and I'mma let you finish but Day 1 is one of the best days of all time.  Of all time.  But no yeah I'm pretty sure it is impossible to make cases without using nightkills as evidence.  Mafia is a game where you prove other players guilty by taking advantage of the rules and game mechanics instead of like doing thinking or whatever.  How did we not realize this before. 
  Real talk assuming there was a night 0 how would you proceed in playing.  For example, Angel Milk still hasn't posted.  Let's pretend Angel Milk was nightkilled night 0.  Who is suspicious and why?  Please relate any and all cases you make to actual game events posted by the moderator.

Pesco: From a brief skim it looks you think the following people are scum and must die, right now: Me, Anthony, and Rou.  You've also called Nietz scummy and I think you called UK out at some point?  Actually after a couple glances I don't think you've actually done anything besides pure offense.  What do you think about Suwako?  You've mentioned him a bunch but I don't think you've actually come out and said you want his head on a plate.  Does that mean you think he's town?  What about the other players?

Eliphas: UK jumped on the wagon for the exact same reason the other people did, within like one minute of it starting.  It was him unvoting and clearing Anthony based on 'mindhax' that made people suspicious of him.  I don't really get what you mean by 'ignoring what other people were saying about Anthony' either.
  Your exact words about Anthony were "can't pin an alignment on him because he can go either way," which you followed with "seems anti-town but that could be attributed to newbness" which I'm pretty sure is the same as "ehh he could be scum but he may not be."  Also if you want to know Nietz's opinion on me you could try like reading some of the posts where he says it?  But I guess if you're dropping then that's that.  Good luck with school!

Eliphas is bailing so voting for him is obviously not going to do any good.  Suwako's last post was basically like "everybody is wrong about everything because it's Day 1, I'll leave my vote on pesco because my gut is better than thinking or posting, but go ahead any lynch any of the vote leaders even though I just said there's actually no case against them.  Gotta lynch someone, lol."  That's kind of Not What I Was Looking For when I said you should try to make more sense.  ##unvote, ##vote: Suwako Moriya.

UncertainJakutten

  • Then you should get out of the way when I tell you
  • Do you not trust my aim?
Re: INVASION! (Day 1) - Suspicion~
« Reply #273 on: September 18, 2009, 03:08:05 AM »
Quote
Eliphas: UK jumped on the wagon for the exact same reason the other people did, within like one minute of it starting.  It was him unvoting and clearing Anthony based on 'mindhax' that made people suspicious of him.  I don't really get what you mean by 'ignoring what other people were saying about Anthony' either.

Eto...*looks at profile*

*blinks*

Ok then.

Lol bandwagon at VgT. at least there was more reasoning on Eliphas. Too bad you unvoted him.


Suwako Moriya

  • Hey you with the pretty face
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  • Welcome to the human race!
Re: INVASION! (Day 1) - Suspicion~
« Reply #274 on: September 18, 2009, 03:33:16 AM »
Actually
##Unvote: Pesco##Vote: Kilga

The heck you doin, camera crow?  Rest of this crew's pretty hopeless but I kinda expected more from you here.  YOU know what I'm talkin about here, why you sittin back and letting this go on?  Either you're resigned or you're scum and I don't take resignation to be your style.

Scumhunting comes from looking for players behaving as though they are part of an informed minority trying to avoid their faction being lynched.  It only really starts when you get some flips and hard evidence to work with.  Which means that yes indeed, there's usually no such thing as a day 1 scum lynch unless the scum are REALLY TERRIBLE or town is REALLY GOOD.  I prefer not to assume scum are terrible, and town sure ain't good here.

Not all opinions are meaningful or useful and cases are not valid or worthy of comment just by virtue of existing.
[/]
The only thing this dimension does well is show its ass. We might as well applaud it! - Albert Burneko

Well, this game happened.

Suwako Moriya

  • Hey you with the pretty face
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  • Welcome to the human race!
Re: INVASION! (Day 1) - Suspicion~
« Reply #275 on: September 18, 2009, 03:33:50 AM »
And what the heck is with formatting being so broken here?
The only thing this dimension does well is show its ass. We might as well applaud it! - Albert Burneko

Well, this game happened.

Kilgamayan

  • True
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    • Let's Play Super Marisa World
Re: INVASION! (Day 1) - Suspicion~
« Reply #276 on: September 18, 2009, 03:43:34 AM »
If my silence toward the continued use of walls came off as tolerance of them that wasn't my intention.

That being said, what else do you want from me? VGT has given me zero reason to move my vote and the day is ending soon so there's not much left for me to do but wait for Day 2 to show up so we can start making actual cases.

I could keep yelling at people for posting walls but that seems fruitless at best and distracting at worst given the recent tension levels.
[22:40:12] <Drake> "guys i donwloaded esod but its not workan"
[22:40:21] <Drake> REPORTED
[22:40:25] <NaturallyOccurringChoja> PROBATED
[22:40:30] <Drake> ORGASM
[22:40:32] <NaturallyOccurringChoja> FUCK YEAH

[22:28:39] <Edible> Mafia would be a much easier game if we were playing "spot the asshole"

FinnKaenbyou

  • Formerly Roukanken
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  • blub blub nya
Re: INVASION! (Day 1) - Suspicion~
« Reply #277 on: September 18, 2009, 04:39:30 AM »
And here I am, once again, because the alternative is lying in bed and failing at trying to sleep.

I have actually run out of ways to get angry at Suwako. Now not only is he saying 'It's day 1, you'll never find ANYTHING TO WORK FROM SO YOU SHOULDN'T FUCKING DO ANYTHING' and 'Not posting anything useful at all is somehow equivalent to content', he takes his one opinion from his previous post (that Kilga looked Town) and throws it out of the fucking window.

Affinity

  • hoho
  • ... but I have promises to keep.
Re: INVASION! (Day 1) - Suspicion~
« Reply #278 on: September 18, 2009, 04:41:22 AM »
Quote from: Eliphas
Affinity looks bad. Case on K4U is silly and the accusations made were silly as well. Not to mention he jumps the gun on umu for a silly reason of "WEAK CASE IS SCUM"

Well, yes, weak case is scum, at least at the beginning of the day.  Also, oranges are red because I said so; it has not been explained as to why they were silly, since she didn't elaborate at that point at first, and did so satisfactorily.

---

And Suwako's switch from Kilga is good to Kilga is bad for not arguing against the walls, which has nothing to do with scummy intent at all, is quite bad.

Quote from: Suwako
Not all opinions are meaningful or useful and cases are not valid or worthy of comment just by virtue of existing.

Yours are definitely one of them, of course.  No reason to change my vote; especially since you actually managed to make your vote weaker by switching.

Suwako Moriya

  • Hey you with the pretty face
  • *
  • Welcome to the human race!
Re: INVASION! (Day 1) - Suspicion~
« Reply #279 on: September 18, 2009, 05:12:14 AM »
Kilga, I was referring more towards that last post where you were all "o lol sure is some rageathol here with people voting Suwako!.... *crickets chirp*"

I don't know what was up with pyosting that - JUST that with nothing else - and I'm not soooo sure I like it.  Buuut it doesn't seem like anyone else will buy a push on you so let's see. 

Kilga and others voting VGT!

Can your frogs evade the snake?  State your actual case/reason for voting him, in the form of "I think scum in this situation would do/not do X, and VGT is doing/not doing X here."

Actually it'd be pretty good if everyone would do this!  I'll even start, if it wasn't clear from the above: I think scum in this situation would lay back and spur on the gobs of bad cases and unproductive discussion while taking few hard stances themselves and putting out ambiguous statements about cases like the one on myself.  Pesco's been hanging back but supporting the spam and taking an attitude that puts himself out of the discussion while not condemning it, and Kilga did that with his one liner about rageathol.
The only thing this dimension does well is show its ass. We might as well applaud it! - Albert Burneko

Well, this game happened.

Kilgamayan

  • True
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    • Let's Play Super Marisa World
Re: INVASION! (Day 1) - Suspicion~
« Reply #280 on: September 18, 2009, 05:13:10 AM »
Can we stop voting out of frustration and start voting for scumminess, please?

Let's go spoon-feed for a moment, since Suwako is catching a lot of flak for a Day 1 approach that we share (and yet no one has voted me for it).

Day 1 is a total crapshoot, barring a Night 0 or incredibly abnormal antics that lead to good luck, such as Seniwac's out-of-left-field VT claim in the last game that a noobscum fell for hook, line and sucker. Day 1 cases almost invariably have no merit, because there's no solid information to go on. I'm going to pluck a piece from Suwako's most recent post that people seem to have missed in their rage.

Scumhunting comes from looking for players behaving as though they are part of an informed minority trying to avoid their faction being lynched.  It only really starts when you get some flips and hard evidence to work with.  Which means that yes indeed, there's usually no such thing as a day 1 scum lynch unless the scum are REALLY TERRIBLE or town is REALLY GOOD.  I prefer not to assume scum are terrible, and town sure ain't good here.

In layman's terms, this says that a case will only really start to have merit when it's based on flips and interactions with those people that flipped, or it is founded in information gained from a power role. On Day 1, no power roles have activated yet, and no one has died, meaning we have no flips to work off of. Thus the overwhelming majority of Day 1 cases are meaningless and will be ignored in the long run. Don't believe this? Check the records. How often have we lynched scum on Day 1? Had it ever happened before Zengar, who can be chalked up to a Seniwac-induced fluke? The back of my mind seems to think it happened exactly once before that but I can't remember who or what game it was, so I'm not really counting it as reliable.

This ties in to why Suwako and I are posting so little (or at least I'm trying to), and why I presume Kiro and Serpentarius aren't posting a whole lot since they're in the group of players I'd expect to get it as well. There's not much to say, so we're not saying much. More importantly, we're not wasting time and clogging up the thread with massive walls about what will amount to nothing once Day 2 rolls around and we have flips to work with (and investigative roles will have some extra info). Scum's job is to confuse and misdirect, and walls of text and silly arguments make for excellent obfuscation tools. Let people waste time and get pissy with each other, it'll lead to an easy mislynch and could cause distractions (and re-reaid pain) down the road. Now obviously not everyone who posts walls is scum, and scum are more than likely not to post walls themselves since they have even less to say on Day 1 than town do, so what they'll commonly try to do is fan the flames of obfuscation by silently encouraging walls and rage. Maybe they'll try to keep a particularly pointless argument going by pressing exactly the right buttons. There are plenty of ways to do this.

All of this is why Suwako (and myself, as much as I've been trying) is kicking back her heels and waiting for Day 2 to start. We'll all have a flip or two to work with and some people will have extra info. Much better than the continuous WIFOM we have rolling right now. There's no need to add to the already deafening level of noise.

So can we please stop voting for Suwako because we don't understand/disagree with her playstyle? Even in the grand scheme of shitty Day 1 cases, that method ranks very highly amongst the most worthless. Find someone that's been trying to hide in plain sight, or someone that's been fanning the flames. Better than someone that clearly intends to work to find scum with flips.

Cut by the goddess in question. Will respond in a separate post.
[22:40:12] <Drake> "guys i donwloaded esod but its not workan"
[22:40:21] <Drake> REPORTED
[22:40:25] <NaturallyOccurringChoja> PROBATED
[22:40:30] <Drake> ORGASM
[22:40:32] <NaturallyOccurringChoja> FUCK YEAH

[22:28:39] <Edible> Mafia would be a much easier game if we were playing "spot the asshole"

Kilgamayan

  • True
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    • Let's Play Super Marisa World
Re: INVASION! (Day 1) - Suspicion~
« Reply #281 on: September 18, 2009, 05:16:23 AM »
My case on VGT is as such:

I think scum in any situation will try to look active while providing as few meaningful opinions as possible, and VGT has tried to look active while providing as few meaningful opinions as possible.
[22:40:12] <Drake> "guys i donwloaded esod but its not workan"
[22:40:21] <Drake> REPORTED
[22:40:25] <NaturallyOccurringChoja> PROBATED
[22:40:30] <Drake> ORGASM
[22:40:32] <NaturallyOccurringChoja> FUCK YEAH

[22:28:39] <Edible> Mafia would be a much easier game if we were playing "spot the asshole"

FinnKaenbyou

  • Formerly Roukanken
  • *
  • blub blub nya
Re: INVASION! (Day 1) - Suspicion~
« Reply #282 on: September 18, 2009, 05:34:25 AM »
Quote
In layman's terms, this says that a case will only really start to have merit when it's based on flips and interactions with those people that flipped, or it is founded in information gained from a power role. On Day 1, no power roles have activated yet, and no one has died, meaning we have no flips to work off of. Thus the overwhelming majority of Day 1 cases are meaningless and will be ignored in the long run. Don't believe this? Check the records. How often have we lynched scum on Day 1? Had it ever happened before Zengar, who can be chalked up to a Seniwac-induced fluke? The back of my mind seems to think it happened exactly once before that but I can't remember who or what game it was, so I'm not really counting it as reliable.
So, in other words, you're as fucking apathetic as Suwako is.
True, you can say what you like about Day 1 being pointless and it being nearly impossible to lynch scum, but if that's the way you're going to look at the game why bother playing? Maybe we should all just sit and say nothing for the first day, wait for the first scum hit and then try to work from - oh wait, no, that won't work because no-one's said anything.

This is just scum trying to pass off an excuse to do nothing. Apathy doesn't earn Town ANYTHING, which is exactly what Suwako is trying to endorse.

As you may have guessed I'm very irritated with this game right now, but given that Seniwac's already went ahead and asked for a replacement I can hardly make things even worse for Edible. >_>

Kiro

  • Drinks: Everything
  • Sleeps: Anywhere
Re: INVASION! (Day 1) - Suspicion~
« Reply #283 on: September 18, 2009, 05:47:58 AM »
To amuse Suwako: I think scum would be more likely to actively resist putting a case forward than Town and VgT has done that and held off for a long time. You are not being voted by me because despite the superficial apathy you're giving off, you had a decent stance on Pesco that could be read into a little easier than VgT. Your switch to Kilga for sitting back seems to the same type of stance as the one you had on Pesco so are you ranking one as more scummy than the other or is this vote on Kilga more of a prod? And how does this affect your stance on VgT if you've been voting people on his wagon when you also say you're ok with the VgT lynch in #261?

Kilgamayan

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    • Let's Play Super Marisa World
Re: INVASION! (Day 1) - Suspicion~
« Reply #284 on: September 18, 2009, 05:50:50 AM »
Quote
In layman's terms, this says that a case will only really start to have merit when it's based on flips and interactions with those people that flipped, or it is founded in information gained from a power role. On Day 1, no power roles have activated yet, and no one has died, meaning we have no flips to work off of. Thus the overwhelming majority of Day 1 cases are meaningless and will be ignored in the long run. Don't believe this? Check the records. How often have we lynched scum on Day 1? Had it ever happened before Zengar, who can be chalked up to a Seniwac-induced fluke? The back of my mind seems to think it happened exactly once before that but I can't remember who or what game it was, so I'm not really counting it as reliable.
So, in other words, you're as fucking apathetic as Suwako is.
True, you can say what you like about Day 1 being pointless and it being nearly impossible to lynch scum, but if that's the way you're going to look at the game why bother playing? Maybe we should all just sit and say nothing for the first day, wait for the first scum hit and then try to work from - oh wait, no, that won't work because no-one's said anything.

People are going to wall it up anyway. It would be nice if everyone took the succinct approach to Day 1, but it's not going to happen. Refusal to add to the noise and choosing instead to wait for solid information to work off of, however, is Pro-Town, not Anti-Town. Obfuscation is Anti-Town. Suwako and I are not endorsing obfuscation. Suwako and I are endorsing informed decision-making. If it's "apathy", it's a Special Day 1 Apathy, and you can be damned sure I'm going to take part because it's the smarter way to play regardless of any scary buzzwords that get attached to it.

You're playing far too by-the-book this game. Stop thinking so much about exactly what people are doing and start thinking more about exactly why they're doing it. I imagine it will be better for your blood pressure because you'll be discussing things that are up for interpretation rather than just throwing down a "this action is bad", expecting people to follow, and then becoming bewildered when they don't. The exact same thing happened to me last game.
[22:40:12] <Drake> "guys i donwloaded esod but its not workan"
[22:40:21] <Drake> REPORTED
[22:40:25] <NaturallyOccurringChoja> PROBATED
[22:40:30] <Drake> ORGASM
[22:40:32] <NaturallyOccurringChoja> FUCK YEAH

[22:28:39] <Edible> Mafia would be a much easier game if we were playing "spot the asshole"

Kilgamayan

  • True
  • *
  • The Real Treasure Is You
    • Let's Play Super Marisa World
Re: INVASION! (Day 1) - Suspicion~
« Reply #285 on: September 18, 2009, 06:11:56 AM »
It's also worth noting that a "quality" Day 1 case managed to pop up almost immediately with Anthony's reaction to being called out and it ended up giving everyone something to weigh in on.

So actually I take that back about how walls are inevitable, because Day 1 could still meander along quite easily without them and the hang-back-and-analyze-attitudes-instead-of-cases approach would still be perfectly viable. If everyone took a more succinct approach to the Anthony situation and the things that stemmed from it then we'd be exactly in that situation.
[22:40:12] <Drake> "guys i donwloaded esod but its not workan"
[22:40:21] <Drake> REPORTED
[22:40:25] <NaturallyOccurringChoja> PROBATED
[22:40:30] <Drake> ORGASM
[22:40:32] <NaturallyOccurringChoja> FUCK YEAH

[22:28:39] <Edible> Mafia would be a much easier game if we were playing "spot the asshole"

Pesco

  • Trickster Rabbit Tewi
  • *
  • Make a yukkuri and take it easy with me
Re: INVASION! (Day 1) - Suspicion~
« Reply #286 on: September 18, 2009, 06:52:27 AM »
Looking at Nietz' point that I'm flinging whatever sticks, so tell me then. How many of the points I've brought up against my targets are valid and how many are invalid? List them ALL for us.
If you can't discern your own points, don't expect me to do it for you. Especially since in lieu of actual arguments you've been mostly dropping baits, recycling opinions and overall going with the flow. I've already summarized the case here and here, and nothing has changed about your attitude since then, just some added provoking of Rou, obligatory attack on Suwako and overall scummy smugness.

You're not answering my question. I wanted you to lay out specifics of exactly which points I've raised on all my targets are 'flung shit' and which ones are valid. Summaries are vague.

Pesco: From a brief skim it looks you think the following people are scum and must die, right now: Me, Anthony, and Rou.  You've also called Nietz scummy and I think you called UK out at some point?  Actually after a couple glances I don't think you've actually done anything besides pure offense.  What do you think about Suwako?  You've mentioned him a bunch but I don't think you've actually come out and said you want his head on a plate.  Does that mean you think he's town?  What about the other players?

There hasn't been much for me to defend against, so I take the fight to you.

Wrt Suwako, I didn't like the posts initially. But, if you think about being an elitist and see things from that way, what Kilga has just said makes sense. Think about the activity levels of the better players (who are elitists) here. I'd have to call it better ability at picking out the most important bits from all the stuff we post. I don't particularly feel like voting Suwako because I wanted to deal with him another way. With the recent posts, I think it won't be necessary anymore either.

Re: INVASION! (Day 1) - Suspicion~
« Reply #287 on: September 18, 2009, 07:07:56 AM »
Quote
In layman's terms, this says that a case will only really start to have merit when it's based on flips and interactions with those people that flipped, or it is founded in information gained from a power role.
This was never put into question. It is undisputed from both sides of the arguement that this is true.

What is being put into question is that if everyone is suppose to handle day one like Suwako (And apparently You) suggests to handle it, then there will be no meaningful interactions. All we would have are flips, but nothing inbetween them to analyze.

This is what we disagree with.

Pesco

  • Trickster Rabbit Tewi
  • *
  • Make a yukkuri and take it easy with me
Re: INVASION! (Day 1) - Suspicion~
« Reply #288 on: September 18, 2009, 08:19:08 AM »
If Tenshi has decided to ditch the game, come in here and say so. Then we can be all rude and pissy at you and be on our way.

Hououin Kyouma

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Re: INVASION! (Day 1) - Suspicion~
« Reply #289 on: September 18, 2009, 08:23:00 AM »
If Tenshi has decided to ditch the game, come in here and say so. Then we can be all rude and pissy at you and be on our way.
I haven't ditched it  :'(
"DUMBASS!" "I'd hit it" "Bear-sona~!" "Critical hits to the nads!" "What you're really asking is... "Will you please beat the **** out of me, Kanji?" "...I Gotta pee." ''Everydays great at your Junes~'' "You calling me a loser?"

Pesco

  • Trickster Rabbit Tewi
  • *
  • Make a yukkuri and take it easy with me
Re: INVASION! (Day 1) - Suspicion~
« Reply #290 on: September 18, 2009, 08:29:29 AM »
This, this and this show that you have.

[offtopic]I had a glimpse of what you said on IRC before I left this morning and if that was the case, you should have notified the mod instead of stuffing around. (I'm allowed to get angry too)[/offtopic]

Suwako Moriya

  • Hey you with the pretty face
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Re: INVASION! (Day 1) - Suspicion~
« Reply #291 on: September 18, 2009, 09:01:01 AM »
Iiiiiinteresting
Looking active while providing no meaningful opinions eh
That describes, likero, half the game-o though.  Why VGT specifically?
Because he didn't throw down a "case" and vote like other people did?
Is this really indicative of scumminess?

Less than convincing. 

I'm on the fence with Kilga and Pesco, annnnd... still cool voting Kilga I think due to less than convincingness.  Tempered by the difficulty of picking anyone else out of the crowd, though.  Also not under the delusion that he'll actually be lynched, but so it goes.

Rou and Zakeri... woooow guys you need some chill pills.

Mindblowing revelation #1: there are happy turnouts possible for day 1 where people don't spam stupid cases as fast as they can and cling to them "because not having a case is scummy," and yet there is actually discussion and meaningful stances that can be used later.  I know, it may be hard to imagine, but bear with me here.

Mindblowing revelation #2: scum can play using tactics that are generally protown!  In fact it's one of the best ways to play and one of the easiest wins as scum, if town's got their head up their cloaca and lets you be the towniest looking mothersnaker on the field.  See avatar.
The only thing this dimension does well is show its ass. We might as well applaud it! - Albert Burneko

Well, this game happened.

Pesco

  • Trickster Rabbit Tewi
  • *
  • Make a yukkuri and take it easy with me
Re: INVASION! (Day 1) - Suspicion~
« Reply #292 on: September 18, 2009, 09:06:05 AM »
I'd still very much like to trash your shrine.

Edible

  • One part the F?hrer, one part the Pope
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Re: INVASION! (Day 1) - Suspicion~
« Reply #293 on: September 18, 2009, 09:33:59 AM »
Vote Count: In Which The Mod Sleeps Through Deadline
VGameT (6) - Kiro, Kilgamayan, Eliphas, pesco, UncertainKitten, Kitten4U
Pesco (1) - Nietz
Nietz (1) - u?
Suwako Moriya (6) - Roukanken, Affinity, Serpentarius, Zakeri, Anthony, VGameT
Kilgamayan (1) - Suwako Moriya

VGameT and Suwako Moriya are at L-3.

Not voting: Angel Milk

The day will end in approximately 8 hours.  This will likely be the final official votecount of Day 1 until deadline.

Please consult the rules for any clarification into deadline policies.  Any vote changes after 1:20 PM Eastern Standard Time will be considered invalid, whether I'm awake or not.
« Last Edit: September 18, 2009, 09:41:57 AM by Edible »

Affinity

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Re: INVASION! (Day 1) - Suspicion~
« Reply #294 on: September 18, 2009, 10:37:01 AM »
Angel Milk, at the very least, drop a vote on someone you think is scummy.

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there are happy turnouts possible for day 1 where people don't spam stupid cases as fast as they can and cling to them "because not having a case is scummy," and yet there is actually discussion and meaningful stances that can be used later.  I know, it may be hard to imagine, but bear with me here.

Examples, examples.  Your case is as stupid as anyone else's really, reliant on pesco 'hanging back and fanning the flames', why scum and town can interchangably take on attitudes that you assign to both and thus it's not useful because attitudes are reliant on meta and are easier to fake.

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scum can play using tactics that are generally protown!  In fact it's one of the best ways to play and one of the easiest wins as scum, if town's got their head up their cloaca and lets you be the towniest looking mothersnaker on the field.  See avatar

And scum can also play in the way you and Kilga are playing!  Why, it's a lose-lose and an exercise in WIFOM.  Better that people have something to fall back on later in the game so that votes can be analyzed rather than to play the Russian Roulette, which is against my code of morals as the goddess of plenty.  If this weren't true you would be voting Zakeri or u-mu or someone like that; the 'pro-town' players. 

Hououin Kyouma

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Re: INVASION! (Day 1) - Suspicion~
« Reply #295 on: September 18, 2009, 10:42:41 AM »
Okay, I am trying to put everything in a nutshell.

The reason I didn't post is because the internet was cut off so I used my neighbor's internet through my Ipod to post so I didn't have enough time to read all of the thread.

Anthony went on a wagon
Everybody voted for Anthony
Anthony unvoted
People still voted for Anthony
Umu and Roukan blah blah (Roukan is always like this)
Voting a newbie crap (Roukan: Vote for newbies if they madk a mistake until they do something about it)
Suwako's post........
More blah
Suwako complaining about posting a lot on the first day
Suwako Moriya wagon and VgT wagon
WoTs WoTs


Suwako: Out of all the people I find you most suspicious. First of all you hardly posted. I know I have only posted twice including this post but I have my reasons. I read the thread. From what I am seeing you only read part of the thread. Second of all, I agree with the part that Day 1 is useless but not posting won't do shit. I know I basically took other people words but that's because there is nothing to talk expect for what they already said.

VGT: All I sense is WIFOM, Wishy washy reasonings and WoTs.

Out of these two, I find Suwako more suspicious.

Vote:Suwako

[off topic]Pesco: I was reading the thread while I was on the IRC. I tend lose concentration after a while when I read. yeah, I should have told the Mod. Pesco, stop stalking me[/offtopic]
"DUMBASS!" "I'd hit it" "Bear-sona~!" "Critical hits to the nads!" "What you're really asking is... "Will you please beat the **** out of me, Kanji?" "...I Gotta pee." ''Everydays great at your Junes~'' "You calling me a loser?"

FinnKaenbyou

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Re: INVASION! (Day 1) - Suspicion~
« Reply #296 on: September 18, 2009, 10:57:03 AM »
Refusal to add to the noise and choosing instead to wait for solid information to work off of, however, is Pro-Town, not Anti-Town.
Except that by this logic, if everyone were to make the supposedly Pro-Town decision, the result would be Anti-Town.

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Obfuscation is Anti-Town. Suwako and I are not endorsing obfuscation. Suwako and I are endorsing informed decision-making.
The point being IT'S DAY 1. If you can't make informed decisions yet, at least have some opinions so that you can be judged on them later. Hanging back like this is an excellent way for scum to let attention fall on the louder Townies.

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If it's "apathy", it's a Special Day 1 Apathy, and you can be damned sure I'm going to take part because it's the smarter way to play regardless of any scary buzzwords that get attached to it.
Alright, if it's the smarter way to play then Tenshi is a fucking genius.

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you'll be discussing things that are up for interpretation rather than just throwing down a "this action is bad"
Seriously? Seriously? Are you really going for the 'everything's up for interpretation' argument? What, am I arguing religion again?
If we sit here and reduce everything to 'interpretation', then everyone gets the right to read anything as whatever they like if there's the tiniest bit of reasoning. The simple fact is that affiliation is not open to interpretation - Role PMs went out before Day 1 even started. You're either scum or you aren't.

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Mindblowing revelation #1: there are happy turnouts possible for day 1 where people don't spam stupid cases as fast as they can and cling to them "because not having a case is scummy," and yet there is actually discussion and meaningful stances that can be used later.  I know, it may be hard to imagine, but bear with me here.
Once again, congratulations on dismissing every single case out there as inherently stupid. And can I assume that we members of MotK are far too retarded to have ever had a decent Day 1, excepting a stupid scum D1 fuckup?

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Mindblowing revelation #2: scum can play using tactics that are generally protown!  In fact it's one of the best ways to play and one of the easiest wins as scum, if town's got their head up their cloaca and lets you be the towniest looking mothersnaker on the field.  See avatar.
Mindblowing revelation #3: If there's no way to identify scum as scum outside power roles, then there's no point in playing the fucking game! If we can't take scummy mistakes as being scummy and suspect people who we 'think are scum acting pro-town', then we may as well draw straws and lynch at random.

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Rou and Zakeri... woooow guys you need some chill pills.
I've been in university for less than a week and I already want out. That is all.

?q

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Re: INVASION! (Day 1) - Suspicion~
« Reply #297 on: September 18, 2009, 12:49:42 PM »
I believe I understand and disagree with Suwako's position.  Also, N0 is terribly overrated.
I'm really not sure what to make of this vote on Kilga though; it exploits the difference between
*Telling people to be quiet and not do anything
*Letting people argue and commenting on the important stuff
While the latter can be seen as an anti-Town stance (lurking), it's also the more pragmatic option.
Ideally Day 1 would have even participation from all the players, so while your statement that the people who are overposting should slow down a bit is correct, your own content of "SHUT UP SHUT UP SHUT UP Vote Kilga for not telling people to SHUT UP SHUT UP SHUT UP" doesn't justify itself.

I'm not sure which wagon to back right now.  I've got a shaky newbTown read on VgameT, but my initial approach to S. Moriya was to let him get two of his precious flips and then pressure him with a steamroller D2.
The VgameT lynch would provide more information, but that's not why you lynch people...

I'll waffle a bit on that and come back in a few hours :\

@Rou:  Roommates?

FinnKaenbyou

  • Formerly Roukanken
  • *
  • blub blub nya
Re: INVASION! (Day 1) - Suspicion~
« Reply #298 on: September 18, 2009, 01:06:27 PM »
@Rou:  Roommates?
Homesickness, not sure if I'm interested in the course, generally unsure whether I can actually handle living on my own.
So yeah, the usual.

FinnKaenbyou

  • Formerly Roukanken
  • *
  • blub blub nya
Re: INVASION! (Day 1) - Suspicion~
« Reply #299 on: September 18, 2009, 01:09:17 PM »
EBWOP with actual content:
I've got a shaky newbTown read on VgameT, but my initial approach to S. Moriya was to let him get two of his precious flips and then pressure him with a steamroller D2.
This implies that said flips would make Suwako look bad. I really don't like the sound of this statement, and it's worth following in the event that we get a Town flip today.