Author Topic: INVASION! (Game Over, Nobody Wins)  (Read 81250 times)

FinnKaenbyou

  • Formerly Roukanken
  • *
  • blub blub nya
Re: INVASION! (Day 1) - Suspicion~
« Reply #210 on: September 17, 2009, 01:21:59 AM »
The cases brought forth on Anthony, UK, VGT (for the most part), and whoever the heck else at this point are all totally meaningless, I've yet to see a single argument with actual meritoad and I don't think I'm going to on day 1.  Just a lot of people bringing up popular stuff without thinking.

Much like Kanako amirite?

Congrats on disregarding every single case being brought up.
I don't really see how 'you're all wrong but I'm not saying why' is valid, to be honest.

Too many people here doing that though.  Scum are... maybe one lead, one middle of the pack, one sitting back.
3 scum in a 16-player game? :v

Until UK brought it up, I didn't notice the 'seven pages by tomorrow' reference, but I honestly don't see the point in it. Given that Suwako is outright against people swarming the topic with posts, it's sort of contradictory.

Anthony is posting again. Joy.
He switches AGAIN after people say his case on me is poor. This is a running thing with him, it seems.
Quote
Kilga's lack of content, (talked about before) is to me either A. not properly explaining to get people to go with his opinion, or B. just trying to divert attention from himself,
Or C. A lack of free time/patience. GJ forgetting that one.

Quote
The whole VgT thing which at first I thought was crap, is starting to make more sense, thought now people are gonna call me out on being a hypocrite for shifting my opinion on this,
And pointing this fact out makes it any less true?

Quote
I got nothing on UK, u-mu, my case on Rou is basically all a OMGUS as previously stated, so thus crap, Pesco is mostly just giving out material on Semantics and Pragmatics, overall not much to go on about other that possible attention diverter, got nothing on tenshi/angel milk since we got nothing from him, most of the others I'm just not sure, just gonna go over this a bit more,
Waffle, waffle, waffle, waffle.

Quote
Yea, overall I got that anything I'm probably posting is just simple reposting, and for lack of a better way of saying it, I'm holding off my vote until I get at least better proof.
Waffle, waffle, waffle.

Quote
The point is that they are pretty weak. One is wagon-position speculation, two is selective reading from you and third is your opinion on hunting performance.
- Well, forgive me for not knowing that the third on wagon tell was discredited. >_>
- Show me where he said anything that suggested otherwise.
- Likewise, show me something he did that qualifies as good scumhunting.
I'm interested in where exactly you find fault with my case. Most people disapprove of my attack on Anthony because he's a newb and therefore these mistakes might be understandable, but from what I can see you seem to think he's making no mistakes at all. Am I wrong?

The only reason I'm not switching back to Anthony is because I feel that someone needs to put Suwako under pressure. This last post of his feels pretty horrible, basically saying 'STOP TALKING SO MUCH'. UK feels bad for clearing him on such a small potential point ahead of him being, y'know, a lurker. Nietz feels very 'ehh' to me, he's been fighting for Anthony's sake a little too hard.

UncertainJakutten

  • Then you should get out of the way when I tell you
  • Do you not trust my aim?
Re: INVASION! (Day 1) - Suspicion~
« Reply #211 on: September 17, 2009, 02:32:36 AM »
Quote
Maybe if some mod would give me an unlimited daykill like I've been asking for for over a year I would be able to do something about it, but for right now you and whoever else has to settle for a single vote being placed on whoever I feel is most likely scum.

Please pre-/in for TTGL mafia on MS. I'm toying with something that you might be interested in.

Do NOT like Suwako 207, as it demonstrates an ability to make points while not showing anything for it.

Quote
3 scum in a 16-player game? :v

Missed this. Someone have inside info :P?
(Meaning Suwako, not Rou in this case)

Rou needs to keep up. Anthony is creeping up my scumlist fast, practically as a partner to you.


?q

  • Lurking librarian
  • and moe sound effect
Re: INVASION! (Day 1) - Suspicion~
« Reply #212 on: September 17, 2009, 02:38:38 AM »
Quote
Maybe if some mod would give me an unlimited daykill like I've been asking for for over a year I would be able to do something about it, but for right now you and whoever else has to settle for a single vote being placed on whoever I feel is most likely scum.
Please pre-/in for TTGL mafia on MS. I'm toying with something that you might be interested in.
Okay, I pre-/in for TTGL Mafia on MS.  (You know I have another reason for doing so...)

'Guess this means I have to learn something about TTGL before then (>")>

Kitten4u

  • Ochophobic
  • *
  • Too cute to kill
Re: INVASION! (Day 1) - Suspicion~
« Reply #213 on: September 17, 2009, 02:41:16 AM »
Quote from: Umu
Um... no?  Look again.

I'll need the condesending explanation then.  Is it based off of meta stuff or something?  That's what Pesco's post sounded like (at least I'm assuming that's the post you're agreeing with).

---

Anyway, finished reading.

Eliphas seems to be playing like he did last game.  I don't like it, but I have no idea what it means at this point since he was town last game.  I'd like to hear some thoughts on what's been going on since you haven't posted for awhile.

Pesco's play seems similar to last game too.  I see a lot of acusations thrown and a lot of questions being asked, but no real cases being made.

I didn't see anything else notable about Kilga.
My favorite mythical creature? The honest politician.
A life cool.. where can I download one of those?
Hurray for apathy!

DA|Tumblr

UncertainJakutten

  • Then you should get out of the way when I tell you
  • Do you not trust my aim?
Re: INVASION! (Day 1) - Suspicion~
« Reply #214 on: September 17, 2009, 02:42:55 AM »
Quote
Maybe if some mod would give me an unlimited daykill like I've been asking for for over a year I would be able to do something about it, but for right now you and whoever else has to settle for a single vote being placed on whoever I feel is most likely scum.
Please pre-/in for TTGL mafia on MS. I'm toying with something that you might be interested in.
Okay, I pre-/in for TTGL Mafia on MS.  (You know I have another reason for doing so...)

'Guess this means I have to learn something about TTGL before then (>")>

And glutton for bastard games? Or because you know there won't be a sane cop?



FinnKaenbyou

  • Formerly Roukanken
  • *
  • blub blub nya
Re: INVASION! (Day 1) - Suspicion~
« Reply #215 on: September 17, 2009, 02:45:49 AM »
Rou needs to keep up.
? Did I miss something, or what?

Whatever, it's 4am over here and my sleep pattern is already screwed up enough after that last all-nighter. -_-

?q

  • Lurking librarian
  • and moe sound effect
Re: INVASION! (Day 1) - Suspicion~
« Reply #216 on: September 17, 2009, 02:50:37 AM »
Quote from: Nietz 107
1) The Anthony wagon sucks. It started in what looked a lot like a innocent newb mistake, he got proded for it and reacted pretty much like an innocent newb would.

2 Don't like how Rou jumped on him and waved aside his explanations as invalid, using the all-too-common "it's not noobish, it's scummy and anti-town" argument. This might be a case of "too Rou to be scum", but I'm kinda paranoid of people manipulating their meta, so I'm keeping my suspicion on him.

3) pesco, however, seem worse for the time being. He jumps on the Anthony wagon as well with the same kind of throwaway reasoning, then proceeds to FoS (ugh) and press VgT on a mere technicality. It's particularly bad because we've already seen people referring to past games before without giving links, and now you suddenly decide this is scummy.

4) Don't see much of a case on UK's actions at face value. Her prod and unvote seems to be exactly what to expect from a sensible player when coming upon a newbie mistake. Of course, she could be trying to act like a proper player (paranoid, remember?), but I don't see scum intent right now.

##Unvote
##Vote: pesco
Quote from: Me 170
I agree with Pesc(9) that Nietz107.5 looks like Scum Radio.  3) While the point against Pesco isn't terrible (in regards to suspicion due to VgameT not checking his sources), the rest of it is weak "well yes this person did something scummy, but 1) newbcard/2) meta/4) ambiguousconspiracy lets me park my vote elsewhere".
This is pretty blatant; how did you miss it the first AND second time? [/condescension]

Actually, it is rather insulting that Nietz accused me of waffling after that.
Nietz:  This is scummy BUT it might not be
Me:  This is scummy BUT I can't vote everyone

-----

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And glutton for bastard games? Or because you know there won't be a sane cop?
I prefer "experimental" games, tyvm~

-----

Rou, go to sleep.

Kitten4u

  • Ochophobic
  • *
  • Too cute to kill
Re: INVASION! (Day 1) - Suspicion~
« Reply #217 on: September 17, 2009, 03:07:30 AM »
Quote from: Umu
This is pretty blatant; how did you miss it the first AND second time? [/condescension]

Because I fail at life obviously.  It's closer to I thought the last three things were refering to the same thing when they weren't, but yeah, I see where you're coming from now.  Ty for condescension.
My favorite mythical creature? The honest politician.
A life cool.. where can I download one of those?
Hurray for apathy!

DA|Tumblr

Affinity

  • hoho
  • ... but I have promises to keep.
Re: INVASION! (Day 1) - Suspicion~
« Reply #218 on: September 17, 2009, 04:16:12 AM »
@Kitten:

Good enough for me.  Thank you.  And I disagree with your view that accusing people of making weak cases=weak, since weak cases are often points against that person.  That would be like saying that the case against Anthony is weak since he made a weak case against Roukanken and pesco. 

---

##Unvote

Quote from: Rou
Affinity 173 is a weird one for me. Affinity decides to throw every other case aside to attack Kitten, who really hasn't said much all game. Not sure about this one, not really convinced bythe case quite yet.

This was more of a prod than a case; just didn't want to see her go under the radar.  And I have not thrown aside everything else yet. 

Quote from: umu
It's not a question of semantics at all; it's a question of intent.

Sayihng that RVS ended was more of a observation than anything else; Anthony's pesco vote was bad and by the post alone it was clear that RVS ended.  Thus I don't see the 'intent'

Quote from: umu
I don't understand the second question

You accused Rou of ignoring Anthony's defense and not finding him scummy for that.  How is this bad?  Also, with the appearance of VgT, Anthony, Suwako and Nietz, and with your vote on the latter which I find solid, I don't find you worthy of a vote anymore.  Furthermore, Rou is starting to crack with his third on bandwagon thing.

Quote from: Suwako
{everyone's cases except mine)at this point are all totally meaningless

Quote from: Suwako
Kilga looks pretty good to me

##Vote: Suwako Moriya

Contradictions galore.  Not immediately clear why pesco is not participating with his vote on Nietz.  You are hanging back, supporting the nonsense while not participating.  Popular stuff = important because bandwagons = popular.  Therefore, you are worthy of vote, fellow goddess.

---

In other news, Anthony is bad for suddenly retracting his vote.  He uses the word 'crap' more than anyone else I have ever seen too.  Also, rather superficial read of VgT and Kilga, but at least he is giving more content than Angel Milk and Suwako.

Pesco

  • Trickster Rabbit Tewi
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  • Make a yukkuri and take it easy with me
Re: INVASION! (Day 1) - Suspicion~
« Reply #219 on: September 17, 2009, 07:21:41 AM »
Experience showed me that newbie lynchs end up in mislynch way more often than not. And it keeps happening because MotK loves to lynch bad players and that's always useful for scum.
Yes, I remember VgT played a couple of games long ago, but he still has a newbish attitude about it him. I'm not crazy by the way he's been playing, but you're still way ahead of him and I don't see you two as scumpartners.
Anthony I'm leaning town so far.

Explain the underlined.

Your appeal to statistics is weak. You ignore that scum or town can be bad players. Why do you say that VgT has a newbish attitude over anything else, like the blatant anti-town attitude that has been pointed out?

How townie is Anthony after #200?

Wafflecakes

Yea, overall I got that anything I'm probably posting is just simple reposting, and for lack of a better way of saying it, I'm holding off my vote until I get at least better proof.


What better proof are you waiting on? You are obvscum in front of me, is that proof enough for you to vote yourself?

Again, fine with lynching Anthony without further ado.

Quote
3 scum in a 16-player game? :v

Missed this. Someone have inside info :P?

Edible is playing as Suwako. You heard it from me first :D

Edible

  • One part the F?hrer, one part the Pope
  • *
  • It's the inevitable return, baby
Re: INVASION! (Day 1) - Suspicion~
« Reply #220 on: September 17, 2009, 09:01:36 AM »
Vote Count: In Which The Mod Is Playing Himself And No One Else
VGameT (4) - Kiro, Kilgamayan, Eliphas, pesco
Pesco (2) - Suwako Moriya, Nietz
Anthony (2) - Kitten4U, Serpentarius
Roukanken (1) - UncertainKitten
UncertainKitten (1) - Zakeri
Nietz (1)- u?
Suwako Moriya (2) - Roukanken, Affinity

Not voting: Anthony, Angel Milk

Around, uh... 32 hours left?  Math are hard, I am sleep.

Vibri

  • yo, the beats are strong
  • but the night is long
Re: INVASION! (Day 1) - Suspicion~
« Reply #221 on: September 17, 2009, 11:43:50 AM »
Sorry for kind of disappearing, I slept for like 15 hours and then spent an age playing mahjong.  I'm not sure if I'm thrilled I don't have to wade through 7 more pages of posts or disappointed the game's slowed down so much.

pesco: Couple things.  Why are you voting for me?  In the post where you FoSed me you said some stuff to UK and told me where the mafia archive topic was.  Then you disappeared for a while, and when you came back you switched your vote from Anthony to me.  It looks like you were saying you didn't like how I handled you when you were pressing me about that reference to WCM, but I can't tell because your wording was funky.  What did I do that drew your ire, compared to how Rou handed a similar situation?  If you have any other reasons you haven't really said them yourself, but your vote's still on me.  Meanwhile, you're calling for everyone else's head.  Are you just going to jump on whichever bandwagon looks most likely to succeed at the end of the day?  You certainly have your bases covered for it.

Suwako: I'm rereading your latest post, and it's pretty weak.  What's the difference between night 0 and no night 0?  A dead dude who hasn't even had a chance to post, and maybe some investigative results that aren't even going to show up barring some extremely weird circumstances?  And at the same time you yell at everyone for posting too much.  If we posted less I'm pretty sure there would be less to go on.  The proof here would be that I can't get a read on Angel Milk, because, get this, there's nothing to read from Angel Milk.  Fantastic!  Your vote on pesco goes something like "he is posting a lot but not participating" which seems kind of contradictory to me.  Please post some more, and if you can, make sense while you're doing it.

Eliphas: Maybe you missed my prod in that big post.  Let me repeat it: 1) Why did you flip from "The case against VgameT about his thing with pesco is dumb" to "VgameT's thing with pesco is scummy", and why did you call me out for being waffly about Anthony and then immediately waffle about Anthony?

Angel Milk: You found out what happens when you don't log in for one day.  What happens when you don't post anything game-related for two?  (The answer involves punches.  From me.)

Kilga: Who do you think is scummy, besides me and Anthony?  You're kind of tunneling on the two likely lynch targets.  I realize you said before you didn't want to post a bunch on everyone, but I don't really like your "I met my quota for Day 1.  cya" attitude.  Here I would make a snippy comment about being kidding because you won't see this on your first skim, but you won't see it because you're skimming.  TIME PARADOX

For some reason I keep thinking "I need to reread Rou" but this post is long as hell and I need to sleep, so I'll leave it for tomorrow.  Right now I'll ##vote: Eliphas for weird votes.  His reasoning for voting UK was basically "because Zakeri's post" but then he says "for pretty much ignoring lines of questioning and jumping onto a bandwagon." which is bizarre because Zakeri didn't mention anything like that and UK jumping off the bandwagon was what people didn't like.

Serp

  • It's all about overwhelming force and irresistible style
  • And in a pinch, style can slide
Re: INVASION! (Day 1) - Suspicion~
« Reply #222 on: September 17, 2009, 11:49:36 AM »
Quote from: Kilgamayan
- If you're referring to "I was 2/3 last game" thing, that was a joke designed to barb back at VGT's hilariously incorrect and inflammatory post. In addition, "excusing yourself in advance" implies I guessed he would do that.

Yeah, this is what I was referring to.

Quote from: UncertainKitten
Uh huh at Serpy. Basically can't argue taste. "gut town/scum reads are crap" is a statement I disagree with. I'll grant your theory might be accurate. But it's not very useful without Anthony's alignment as well as the fact that I could still be insightful town.

No, gut clearing Anthony looks bad whatever his alignment happens to be.  If he's scum, then you could be covering for him.  If he's town, then you could be trying to earn town cred for opposing a mislynch.  I wasn't voting him so I could look at you and Nietz again in light of his flip - I was voting him because I didn't consider gut clearing to be a strong enough tell to be worthy of voting at that point.

Quote from: Nietz
Experience showed me that newbie lynchs end up in mislynch way more often than not. And it keeps happening because MotK loves to lynch bad players and that's always useful for scum.

That's because all lynches end up in mislynch more often than not.  >_>  It's simple statistics.  More people flip town than scum because if there were more scum than town, the game would be over before it started.  You can't just refuse to lynch newbies.

That said:

##Unvote
##Vote: Suwako Moriya


This doesn't look like a post restriction to me.  It looks like scum appealing to our weirdness censors in order to avoid having to say anything incriminating D1.  It's basically an implicit WIFOM appealing to our conventional expectations of what scum will and won't do, and it's incredibly anti-town.  I'm willing to give Kilga the benefit of the doubt in that making concise, minimalistic judgements while avoiding textwall spam could be a valid scumhunting philosophy, but Suwako's play goes way beyond that.  It's no wonder people worship Kanako nowadays.

In other news, Anthony still looks scummy in his own right, and Milk's inactivity would be voteworthy by itself if there weren't so much else going on.
[15:13] <Sana> >:<

Re: INVASION! (Day 1) - Suspicion~
« Reply #223 on: September 17, 2009, 12:08:15 PM »
Umm ... We see five new pages have popped up in our absence, so we each read one page. However, we found ourselves lost and confused, and thus decided to read the pages one by one together. After that, we realized that our reason for being lost was not because he couldn't connect the information together the first way. :V

We apologize for earlier confusion in regards to the term "We." When including other entities, we usually refer to them separately from us

Quote
Not exactly a joke vote, more a no vote without directly saying so.
Which is, essentially worse than a jokevote. We understand your meta is to jokevote the mod, but in the end, it does nothing to further discussion. Revoting the mod after dismissing a case and doing nothing else means you are avoiding making connection to other people with your vote.

Quote
What is there to provide at the moment? I can't exactly make a case on myself
Naturally, we would expect a case on someone else from you. Possibly even ourselves, if you felt it wise.

Quote
I fully expect VGT 86 to get voted for much the same reasons I've just been voted for :P.
We admit, We were tempted.

We are happy with the outcome of the quoted posts. We may change our vote if we feel necessary later this post.

Quote from: Rou109
Again, why do newbs get free passes? Zengar was scum last game and he was a newb, so it's not like being new makes you Town by default.
If we remember, KGH also had his first game last game. He was also being targeted by everyone, and was stacked up to be the perfect day one mislynch. Yet, somehow, people began edging out towards Zengar being more likely to be scum than KGH who as a result was spared until day 4.

It might be wise for you to go back and find the differences between KGH's day one and Zengar's day one, rather than assuming only Zengar's applies to this situation.

We also notice you use the term "More newbscum than newbtown" as we believe was warned against above. We apologize, this was mentioned later. We still feel the discussed paragraphs feel like you are trying to stack questionable evidence against Anthony.

119 - We do not understand your laid back attitude in this game. We cannot find rationalization for this, in either town nor scum intent.

We agree with the case on VgT as Rou, Kiro, and Seniwac all state it. We do not however agree with it as how Kilgamayan states it. We suspect this is because Kilgamayan is being mean.

We also agree with Pesco on VgT's case.

Quote from: rou157
I thought that was how the meta call went on the MS wiki - third on the wagon is most likely to be scum.
...

This is not a Meta Call. This is an In-joke. This isn't a legitimate scumtell. This is something you shout out during hammer/Twilight of the first day.

158 - Once again, Suwako truly proves our theory on which of the Moriya Shrine Goddesses is Superior.

164 - @ Anthony: Rou's case on you amounts to making two mistakes that can be seen as scummy. Whether his case is valid or not depends on if you continue making similar mistakes. This is how we see it, anyway.

Quote
now people are gonna call me out on being a hypocrite for shifting my opinion on this,
Stop being so negative. It makes us want to call you out for appeal to emotion. :V

We're certain somebody already says this in a post further below this one, but it bears mentioning that you should at least write down everything you think even if someone else already wrote it down. Obviously, you shouldn't plagiarize, but if you type out everything you think, it demonstrates that you're trying to play the game. Giving up and assuming everyone's going to vote for you every time you say something leads back to that newbie-scum mentality of "Everyone I want to lynch I know is town, therefore I know I will always be voting for the wrong person..."

This is the third time we've had to explain to you why your posting style is scummy. Our patience with you wears thin.

Quote
I'm not sure if he claimed bastardly though. I'm still working out what precise PR would cause Suwako to act like this. The obvious is "act like Suwako", but there have to be more restrictions to provide what we have.

Our current theory on this leads back to MotK Mafia, in which one scum had a PR of posting only once per RL day. We feel that if Suwako is suffering under this post restriction, there are several tips that his scumpartners need to give him regarding how he should play this posting restriction. Alternatively, if none of them know, he should ask in thread and We will provide him these tips.

Quote
- People with more than 10-15 posts at the very most on day 1 are hurting the town.
On that note, We would like to know why we should ignore everything that's been said, and why no one will have any need to go over day one when the town has more information to find connections between. Also, why would it be better for the town to wait until a nightkill that we or they cannot find reasoning behind unless we interacted with the mafia in the decision? You seem to be ignoring the point of why lynching give the town information.

VgT is scum for reasons that are unoriginal coming from us.
Anthony is scum for us having to explain at least three times why everything he's posted so far is scummy.
UncertainKitten is undecidedly not scummy, but decidedly less scummy than anyone else we're listing here.
Suwako is scum for trying to convince everyone that Black is white and that flying under the radar is a towntell, so everyone should be doing it.
Angel Milk has not earned the right to live until day two.

##Unvote, ##Vote: Suwako Moriya

Quote
Warning - while you were typing 4 new replies have been posted. You may wish to review your post.
Oh no. It's starting again! Opinion remains unchanged.

Pesco

  • Trickster Rabbit Tewi
  • *
  • Make a yukkuri and take it easy with me
Re: INVASION! (Day 1) - Suspicion~
« Reply #224 on: September 17, 2009, 12:21:52 PM »
My initial hate on VgT is here
This is starting to get sidetracked. You brought up an observation from an old game, I want to know why you thought it was relevant here and now.

I thought it was funny.  obviously the joke missed the mark because nobody remembers what I'm talking about.  I wasn't actually trying to make a point about anyone's alignment or whatever.  what a careless blunder I've made.

Getting to this took longer than I would have liked because you didn't give a serious response the first time you were asked a serious question.

Thereafter, your beef with Kilga
VGT has posted a lot and said absolutely nothing meaningful

This is the argument I am standing behind. This is what I would like refuted instead of danced around.

Kiro places a vote for you lack of scumhunting opinion.

A lot of people deserve to die. Almost time to consolidate the lynches.

VgT and Suwako both on 4 votes by my count.

Vibri

  • yo, the beats are strong
  • but the night is long
Re: INVASION! (Day 1) - Suspicion~
« Reply #225 on: September 17, 2009, 01:22:46 PM »
Getting to this took longer than I would have liked because you didn't give a serious response the first time you were asked a serious question.

In my first response I said you mistook it for a serious opinion instead of a joke.  Specifically I explained to Rou that I was just pointing out something I thought was funny, and then I said to you "next time I'll remember not to make vague references to old games because people will think I'm making an actual point instead of a joke."  In other words, "I am not making an actual point, I am instead making a joke."  I just thought it was weird how your initial hate seemed to be entirely from a misunderstanding.

Nietz

  • NEETz
  • *
  • Normal Person
Re: INVASION! (Day 1) - Suspicion~
« Reply #226 on: September 17, 2009, 02:20:23 PM »
Actually, it is rather insulting that Nietz accused me of waffling after that.
Nietz:  This is scummy BUT it might not be
Me:  This is scummy BUT I can't vote everyone
I made very clear that of the cases I listed pesco's was the most clearly scummy, while I had doubts about the others. You just made a lot of comments on a lot of people and at the end seemingly randomly chose one to park your vote in.

Quote from: Nietz
Experience showed me that newbie lynchs end up in mislynch way more often than not. And it keeps happening because MotK loves to lynch bad players and that's always useful for scum.

That's because all lynches end up in mislynch more often than not.  >_>  It's simple statistics.  More people flip town than scum because if there were more scum than town, the game would be over before it started.  You can't just refuse to lynch newbies.
Yes, that's a fair point on the statistics. My main gripe still is that, exactly because new players are not very good, it's easy for scum to set for a mislynch and get away with it. I think that instead of taking a chance that a newbie is actually scum, it's more worthy trying to go after players who seem to be taking advantage of that.

pesco is still the best case out there, but if that's not going to happen Suwako seem a good second choice. Though on account of active lurking and uselessness I'd still prefer lynching Tenshi Milk over him.



Nietz

  • NEETz
  • *
  • Normal Person
Re: INVASION! (Day 1) - Suspicion~
« Reply #227 on: September 17, 2009, 02:20:58 PM »
Explain the underlined.
I think it's pretty self-explanatory, I don't see you trying to set up a VgT lynch if you were partners, and if I had to chose one to be scum it would be you.

Quote
Your appeal to statistics is weak. You ignore that scum or town can be bad players.
Ironic, because that's what I've been saying all along.
Why do you say that VgT has a newbish attitude over anything else, like the blatant anti-town attitude that has been pointed out?
Because they are pretty much the same, except calling it anti-town makes it easier to get a lynch of.


FinnKaenbyou

  • Formerly Roukanken
  • *
  • blub blub nya
Re: INVASION! (Day 1) - Suspicion~
« Reply #228 on: September 17, 2009, 02:22:09 PM »
A lot of people deserve to die. Almost time to consolidate the lynches.
This here is truth.

Current order of lynch preferrence:
1. Suwako for his 'HEY I CAN POST BUT I'LL JUST SAY NOTHING'
2. Anthony for EVERYTHING
3. UK for 'I think Suwako has a post restriction so I'm fine with him, and I'm gut-clearing Anthony'
4. Pesco for spending so long nagging people on minor points
5. Nietz for his strange case on Umu, and his fervent defense on Anthony.
6. VgT for taking so long to start saying something useful, though I'm wondering if that might've been brought along by Pesco's nagging.

...That's a lotta lynches. :V

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It might be wise for you to go back and find the differences between KGH's day one and Zengar's day one, rather than assuming only Zengar's applies to this situation.
I recall that KGH made an effort to produce, asking questions if in a somewhat misguided manner. Zengar attacked Serp for no good reason, after jumping on the KGH wagon as soon as possible.

Kilgamayan

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Re: INVASION! (Day 1) - Suspicion~
« Reply #229 on: September 17, 2009, 03:16:14 PM »
Kilga: Who do you think is scummy, besides me and Anthony?  You're kind of tunneling on the two likely lynch targets.  I realize you said before you didn't want to post a bunch on everyone, but I don't really like your "I met my quota for Day 1.  cya" attitude.  Here I would make a snippy comment about being kidding because you won't see this on your first skim, but you won't see it because you're skimming.  TIME PARADOX

No one else stands out to me. I think the Suwako bandwagon is stupid for reasons that should be obvious and, if you really want them that badly, I want you to guess at them first before I tell you.
[22:40:12] <Drake> "guys i donwloaded esod but its not workan"
[22:40:21] <Drake> REPORTED
[22:40:25] <NaturallyOccurringChoja> PROBATED
[22:40:30] <Drake> ORGASM
[22:40:32] <NaturallyOccurringChoja> FUCK YEAH

[22:28:39] <Edible> Mafia would be a much easier game if we were playing "spot the asshole"

UncertainJakutten

  • Then you should get out of the way when I tell you
  • Do you not trust my aim?
Re: INVASION! (Day 1) - Suspicion~
« Reply #230 on: September 17, 2009, 05:10:56 PM »
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No, gut clearing Anthony looks bad whatever his alignment happens to be.  If he's scum, then you could be covering for him.  If he's town, then you could be trying to earn town cred for opposing a mislynch.  I wasn't voting him so I could look at you and Nietz again in light of his flip - I was voting him because I didn't consider gut clearing to be a strong enough tell to be worthy of voting at that point.

Wasn't what I said, Serpy. I think at this point I was granting that people had reasonably good reasons for voting Anthony, but I still was clinging to that town read (either that or I had already dropped it, because I certainly have at this point)

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Which is, essentially worse than a jokevote. We understand your meta is to jokevote the mod, but in the end, it does nothing to further discussion. Revoting the mod after dismissing a case and doing nothing else means you are avoiding making connection to other people with your vote.

Then I'll stand by my "nothing else to do at that point in time"

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Naturally, we would expect a case on someone else from you. Possibly even ourselves, if you felt it wise.

Actually reasonably sure you are town right now, but at any rate, see previous counter.

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We are happy with the outcome of the quoted posts. We may change our vote if we feel necessary later this post.

As expected of King Stones.

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A lot of people deserve to die. Almost time to consolidate the lynches.

I'm not gonna get a Rou lynch, am I?

I must admit I haven't seen anything useful from VgT, but I think I've seen less useful from Suwako...

I think this calls for a D1 reread. At least I know I'll only have 4 posts to read from Suwako...

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3. UK for 'I think Suwako has a post restriction so I'm fine with him, and I'm gut-clearing Anthony'

Purely because I speculated obvious (to me) conclusions? I mean hell, I even EXPLAINED the PR thing was due to a misremembering of Edible's statements regarding this game.

In fact, you've effectively got better cases on everyone else in that list (excepting Pesco), and I'm still third? I don't like this. I feel a mislynch line occuring here.

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No one else stands out to me. I think the Suwako bandwagon is stupid for reasons that should be obvious and, if you really want them that badly, I want you to guess at them first before I tell you.

Watch out, if you think he has a PR you'll be third on Rou's list!

Now, for that reread of Suwako/VgT.



UncertainJakutten

  • Then you should get out of the way when I tell you
  • Do you not trust my aim?
Re: INVASION! (Day 1) - Suspicion~
« Reply #231 on: September 17, 2009, 05:23:22 PM »
Suwako (for ease of easiness)

42 Random vote...

119 was the thing that first led me to believe PR (it's the green I tell you). It's actual sentiment isn't very good, but I'm going to try something here. I'm doing a wordcount of each one of her posts...I suspect we'll find something in common. (52 words)

158 also bad as we said if we take it at face value. I also didn't notice the fact that she was still on Pesco, when VgT was probably a better case. My word count thing isn't getting anywhere either. All I've noticed is that Suwako is only posting every other page... (118 words)

207, of course, breaks this for me. It's also got that stuff about ignore D1 and the like, and clearing Kilga since he hates walls as well. Oh, and the three scum theory. Not sure what I think but since it seems Suwako can communicate, even if PR'd I can't say I disagree with her lynch...(189 words)

Ok, fine, I'm leaning towards voting Suwako. I can't justify a PR with her. I also should realize that PRs aren't always town but I got caught in the meta trap of PRs being powerful townies...sorry.

I will reread VgT before voting though.


FinnKaenbyou

  • Formerly Roukanken
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Re: INVASION! (Day 1) - Suspicion~
« Reply #232 on: September 17, 2009, 05:42:31 PM »
Watch out, if you think he has a PR you'll be third on Rou's list!
Quote from: Rou
3. UK for 'I think Suwako has a post restriction so I'm fine with him, and I'm gut-clearing Anthony'
GJ on that misrep there.


UncertainJakutten

  • Then you should get out of the way when I tell you
  • Do you not trust my aim?
Re: INVASION! (Day 1) - Suspicion~
« Reply #233 on: September 17, 2009, 05:47:51 PM »
VgT 53 was the whole "didn't this happen before" statement. Seemed serious to me, but not scummy if he was wrong :S

VgT 63 is contradiction riddled. It's like "It was a joke, oh wait, not it's not, but I'll find the game anyway...etc." I can see why Pesco jumped on this.

every post up to and including 86 reeks of IIoA. Got any suspects VgT?

94 has Eggo envious. It's like you are poking everyone without making a decision. And even poking in ways that contradict each other.

123 feels like more IIoA without suspecting anyone. Having trouble finding targets?

Oh, 125 prods Suwako...the only person he's said anything close to a suspicion on. And he doesn't vote her...

132, strawman, etc.

146: So it was a joke? Then how would you find the game? I also get the impression you are just trying to salvage a case on Kilga if at all possible.

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It's true that I haven't seriously voted for anyone, but that's how I play.  I don't press people with votes, I press with questions, and leave the votes for people I would actually like to see lynched.  I like to see how people respond, whereas you guys like to see a more direct, "this is what I think about X" approach.  I'll try to reconcile the two.

So THAT'S why you haven't voted...you should realize this DOESN'T WORK! People don't have any reason to listen to you if you don't vote them!

Yeah, this post sucks.

(And honestly, looking at that long post I could see how Suwako found it scummy :P)

posts until 163 are rather meaningless, just playing with Kilga.

163, however, appears to be a lot of words and no real stances besides the Kilga/Suwako raaaaeeeeeeg

221's Eliphas vote feels contrived. Further, it's about time you commented on players besides Kilga/Suwako. And it doesn't seem to say much. A couple lurker pushes, and the Eliphas from nowhere...

Ok...Suwako is kinda bad for what he did, but VgT is more actively bad. Also, I think we might be able to deduce more things from his flip than Suwako's. I can already think of a couple connections I'm making if he's scum. If he IS somehow town, I also think we can establish a couple things, but not as much. We can't do either with Suwako, so...

##Unvote, Vote VgT

Watch out, if you think he has a PR you'll be third on Rou's list!
Quote from: Rou
3. UK for 'I think Suwako has a post restriction so I'm fine with him, and I'm gut-clearing Anthony'
GJ on that misrep there.



For the love of...do I have to add "Real talk" to my posts as well, to quote VgT? It was a joke, satiring your rather weak reasons for me being on your list compared to the others. I know damn well gut clearing anthony was in there. I'd also like to ask why is this SO much more horrible than VgT's useless for MOST OF D1! and Nietz strange cases (considering he also has clearing Anthony)? Also, I uncleared Anthony, but I'm sure you know that, so I'm assuming it's just the initial gut clear you dislike.

There are reasons I really wish you were the lynch today, and lists like that only make up drops of them.



FinnKaenbyou

  • Formerly Roukanken
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Re: INVASION! (Day 1) - Suspicion~
« Reply #234 on: September 17, 2009, 06:14:39 PM »
For the love of...do I have to add "Real talk" to my posts as well, to quote VgT? It was a joke, satiring your rather weak reasons for me being on your list compared to the others. I know damn well gut clearing anthony was
in there.
You certainly made it sound relatively serious. I'll just point out the paradox about you getting mad at me for pointing out a joke here, and you attacking VgT for making a joke. >_>

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I'd also like to ask why is this SO much more horrible than VgT's useless for MOST OF D1! and Nietz strange cases (considering he also has clearing Anthony)?
At least he gave reasoning for it, you just did it based on gut and tone.
VgT was rambling for a while, yeah, but I'm wondering if he was just getting bogged down by Pesco...

UncertainJakutten

  • Then you should get out of the way when I tell you
  • Do you not trust my aim?
Re: INVASION! (Day 1) - Suspicion~
« Reply #235 on: September 17, 2009, 06:17:00 PM »
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You certainly made it sound relatively serious. I'll just point out the paradox about you getting mad at me for pointing out a joke here, and you attacking VgT for making a joke. >_>

GJ on the misrep.

It wasn't the fact that VgT was making a joke, it was the fact that he flipped back and forth on "it was a joke, no it was serious'd"

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At least he gave reasoning for it, you just did it based on gut and tone.
VgT was rambling for a while, yeah, but I'm wondering if he was just getting bogged down by Pesco...

Why don't you reread him. And tell me just how many posts seem like actual scumhunting.

Hell, reread everyone and do that. Or at least reread everyone on your list.


Pesco

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Re: INVASION! (Day 1) - Suspicion~
« Reply #236 on: September 17, 2009, 06:38:57 PM »
Glawd Rou. You're going to cause me to put an exception in my gameplay policies.

FinnKaenbyou

  • Formerly Roukanken
  • *
  • blub blub nya
Re: INVASION! (Day 1) - Suspicion~
« Reply #237 on: September 17, 2009, 06:50:34 PM »
Glawd Rou. You're going to cause me to put an exception in my gameplay policies.
What the hell does this mean?

Kiro

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Re: INVASION! (Day 1) - Suspicion~
« Reply #238 on: September 17, 2009, 06:58:42 PM »
I'm not sure where Suwako deserves hate specifically when Tenshi and to an extent VgT has done worse. Suwako is almost a little too blunt with his remarks, so I can't see it being a good thing for Scum to do in the long run. He voted in the beginning, his posts have no currently discernible pattern to them so this hype up about a PR looks meh. He'll end up being checked sooner rather than later. The thing is that he has an actual opinion for his vote on Pesco: that Pesco is just sitting back and letting things run its course.

All of this is before VgT finally put a vote down on Eliphas in #221. It's a little odd how he accuses Pesco of maybe "jumping on whichever bandwagon that looks most likely to succeed" then says Suwako's vote on Pesco for "posting a lot but not participating" seems contradictory to him. How is Suwako's point on Pesco bad if you kind of agree with it above? Along with comments about Kilga and Angel Milk, how did Eliphas earn your vote above all of them? My interpretation on your Eliphas case is that you made comments that made you look worse in between the two periods you mentioned which is why Eliphas moved to you. As for the thing about Zakeri and UK at the bottom, it is a little weird so I'd like to see Eliphas' answer to that, but you're still not convincing us why these points make him the most likely to be scum in your analysis.

Vibri

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  • but the night is long
Re: INVASION! (Day 1) - Suspicion~
« Reply #239 on: September 17, 2009, 07:49:08 PM »
UK: Wowza!  That's enough strawmen to keep Affinity's crops safe for the next hundred years.  I'm not going to line-by-line respond because that would be insane, but my general response would be: You're summarizing everything I've done as only poking at Kilga and Suwako, which isn't true.  If you think my vote for Eliphas is out of nowhere you probably missed the part where I called him out for contradicting himself twice in the same post.  I can say you probably did this because you summarized a post where I poked at 5 different people (including Eliphas), none of which were Kilga, as "suwako/kilga raaaaaaeg."
  Also you seem very confused about that reference I made in the earlygame; I was referencing a thing that actually happened because it was similar to a thing that was currently happening, and I thought it was funny.  I sure have had to say this a lot!

Kiro: My point on pesco was that he's called so many people scummy he can basically vote for whoever is most likely to get lynched.  Suwako's point was, I think, that pesco has posted a whole lot but hasn't contributed content.  I would argue the opposite, that pesco has posted so much content that he gets a free pass for his actions. 
  Suwako's vote is weird, because he voted for pesco as a joke, kept it on him because "no real reason, no real reason to move," keeps it on him more because "not particularily enthused," and then "pesco has supported posting a lot without contributing, good enough for me."  It's weird how the joke vote just kind of sat there until it matured into a real vote with a flimsy reason.  The fact that Suwako's total contribution has basically been "don't post so much" is pretty weak too.
  I voted for Eliphas because both of his real votes are fishy.  When he voted for me he contradicted himself, and when he voted for UK he contradicted reality.  Votes with weak or fallacious reasoning are scummy.  I'm not happy with Suwako, either; I'd like all both to respond, but Eliphas' major activity for the day has been two weird votes and repeatedly prodding Anthony, the result of which was "Anthony can go either way."  I'd rather not let him just slip under the radar for the rest of the day.