Communication Breakdance (Game Over! Town win)

[Kilgamayan]

This tells me you don't understand the case at all. Sodium's guilty because of all the cheerleading he did. K-K-K-K4U only made a couple of offhand comments about Zengar, and while this is displeasing it's not nearly as scummy as what Sodium did.

Why is Sodium guilty of anything more than tunneling? The case against him basically revolves around 'He found KGH scummier than Zengar', and he admitted himself that he was tunneling. Why is acting like another scum wagon exists (Sodium) worse than almost entirely ignoring it (K4U)?

Because Sodium had better stated reasons to vote for Zengar than Seniwac.

S'pose this is "condescending spoon-feed explanation time".

Sodium has cases on Guy A and Guy B. His case on Guy A is better. He votes for Guy B and stays there for the vast majority of the day. Guy A is lynched and flips scum.

Think about why TownSodium would not vote for Guy A, his better stated case that turned out to be scum. Is this plausible? Almost assuredly not, unless he were a truly terrible player, and Sodium is not this. Now think about why ScumSodium would not vote for Guy A, his better stated case that turned out to be scum. Is this plausible? Most certainly, as he'd want to avoid voting for his buddy if at all possible. It helps that the guy he was going after would be his buddy's best chance of surviving the day, but this is a minor tack-on as he had been gunning for Guy B the entire day and would not have needed to make an opinion-swerve save.

[Pesco]

tl;dr Vote the scum in front of you.

Expecting to get home rather late

[Sodium]

Because Sodium had better stated reasons to vote for Zengar than Seniwac.

You're assuming that I knew that, but I didn't for most of the day. I only saw that when I made those two lists, as I said before. I didn't see it before because my judgment was clouded because I was tunneling on Seniwac. Those two lists were late by two hours too, because I had to go somewhere.

Edible: So not doing anything is fine as long as the majority(town) agrees with you?
Also, Zengar actually spent the day on two guys. The first was Seniwac, where he waffled, and the second was Serp where he voted for sub-par/bad reasoning(but at least it wasn't waffles!)

K4U: There are a couple of go-to Day 1 Policy Lynches here, which is why people usually don't bat too much of an eye at them. Pesco is one(more like Policy Dayvig) usually, and Wrathie(was town, got to lylo, selfvoted on lylo) is another.

Kiro: I already explained my Seniwac case, but...
Guy isn't giving his opinions, so he isn't scumhunting
Guy is trying to put up an image of scumhunting by asking a bunch of questions
I did the above as scum last game
Generally being Anti-Town
Weaksauce prod vote at inappropriate times
I did the above as scum last game
The Zengar flip did nothing to make him look better

Waiting for Alice

[Kiro]

I'm feeling things are a little awkward when the majority of the attention is on Sodium while KGH is continuing the exact same behavior on Day 1 and almost nobody has said a thing about his actions in Day 2 (which are none). I thought more people would take notice of that. The events today are looking almost too predictable, heck with some of the votes being half throwaways (like Serp on KGH and Edible on Serp) just because there's no room to put any more votes on Sodium. But KGH hasn't even taken that basic step.

The potential wrinkle with the Sodium case is that if KGH is also Scum, there's less of a concern with Sodium's slow awkwardness in switching from KGH to Zengar as he shouldn't have to go through the trouble of distinguishing either if he were Scum. He'd have just stuck on KGH and drawn less attention to himself by switching. And KGH isn't producing right now. How I see it, Sodium has a better chance of being Scum than KGH because he has actions and opinions to track, but at the same time, Sodium has a better chance of being Town for the exact same reasons. The latter is what is worrying me.

Kilga does not seem to mention the fact that if both Zengar and KGH were Scum, then the case on Sodium is weaker. And Pesco kinda pushes the early momentum on Sodium for a meta type reason. Feeling a little iffy on those 2 now. UK's analysis highlights that awkward switch at the end more and thus looks like more well thought out reasoning. Sodium for his defense, is pretty much giving it an as-is reply which technically does seem to be the only way he could defend it if he were Town or Scum. So there's nothing more to really talk about there. Let's all talk about KGH a little more and have KGH tell us who he thinks is Scum, with a vote as soon as possible. Heck, I'll vacate my spot on Sodium's wagon just for him if he wants to go there!

##Unvote Sodium
##Vote KGH

Rou: You waiting for someone in particular or do you have a case in mind now that you've dropped K4U for now?

[FinnKaenbyou]

Rou: You waiting for someone in particular or do you have a case in mind now that you've dropped K4U for now?

Alice's silence is bugging me more than anything. All we have from him so far is 'I'll reread and post in a couple of hours'...which he doesn't. And he's been online since. Add to this the concerns people had with Suwako giving Zengar a free pass and it's not looking very good for him.

Actually, no point just complaining about it.

##Vote: Alice LurkMargatroid[/s]

START EXISTING.

[Kilgamayan]

Kilga does not seem to mention the fact that if both Zengar and KGH were Scum, then the case on Sodium is weaker.

So? This is a dumb line of thought to follow for not believing my argument, because it works the opposite way too. If Sodium flips scum, would you still think Seniwac is?

[Kilgamayan]

Wait wait wait you feel iffy on me for not mentioning something that would be detrimental to my case?

Why on Earth would I bring up something like that?

[WHMZakeri]

The "Rose Tribe" Votecount.

Kitten4U: Roukanken (L-7)
EX Na2O2: Kilgamayan, Pesco, UncertainKitten, Kiro (L-3)
Khorneish Game Hen: EX Na2O2, Serpentarius, Kitten4U, Kiro (L-2)
Serpentarius: Edible? (L-6)
Alice Margatroid: Roukanken (L-6)

Not Voting: Khorneish Game Hen, Alice Margatroid

[?lice Bl?ckb?rn]

I'm not seeing Heniwac's RVS claim of VT as scummy as he either seems to be PLAYING the Noob, or IS the Noob. Considering he also asked a very obvious question to my post wherein I called Zengar an idiot for claiming scum, as well as some meta reasons, I'm willing to peg this action as NoobTown(TM) behaviour and not NoobScum(TM) behaviour at this point in time. Basically I second Suwako J. Moriya's opinion in #110.

@Pesco: sadly, Chen is not my alt.

Why'd Zengar unvote Kilga in #98 without revoting someone else? This is mildly notable.

Kiro #184 is slightly worrying for a loaded question.

Re: Sodium Levotriiodiothyronine: in #165 you claim that Zengar is at "pretty much L-1" when he's at L-3. With ~48 hours left in the day. What/why?

Why did Heniwac prod Edible with <12 hours left in the day? Granted I personally have done prod votes on D1 in the past as Town so I don't consider it automatically scummy, but it's notable that it was a transfer of a vote from Zengar to Edible.

In #246, Zengar waits for an opinion from Chen. Not notable, except...I'm getting scum vibes from Roukanken at odd times today. First off, I'm not seeing the Kitten4u case at all, especially not when compared to the Sodium 3,5-diiodo-L-Tyrosine wagon. Followed by a prod on me, followed by an unvote and some waffling, followed by a prod vote on me. And no, I haven't been online since: that post was made right before going to sleep, and I woke up about 4 hours ago and then had an optometrist appointment. FWIW, I'd consider 12 hours to be "a couple", but whatever.

Honestly, at this point I'm heavily leaning more towards the Sodium 3,5,3'-triiodothyronamine wagon. Cheerleading the Zengar lynch D1 is awful, none of his posts since have done anything to dissuade me of his scumminess, in fact they have a notable Scum In Front Of Me feel. Edible is my second choice right now for not really providing useful content the entire game. I still think Heniwac is Town at this point in time.

##Vote: Sodium Dextrothyroxine

This post brought to you by the letter "S". Followed closely by the letters "ynthroid".

[FinnKaenbyou]

I'm still not understanding why the supposed cheerleading makes Sodium scum by default. I still attest that Kitten's ignoring the wagon is worse than agreeing with it, so why does Sodium get all the attention?

I sort of expected Town!Alice to do something beyond jump on a big bandwagon with a few side-notes for good measure. Seriously, in terms of typical Margatroid play, I'm used to seeing you post stuff a lot more useful than this when it comes time to deliver. You offer nothing new to the Sodium case besides bringing up the old 'pretty much at L-1' point which I'm sure has been covered already. Vote stays.

[Kilgamayan]

...I...don't know how to make it any clearer than I already have.

[FinnKaenbyou]

I've already explained that I think asking a scum to claim so early would be a bad tactic for a buddy, especially given Zengar's response when he actually DID claim. Add his lack of knowledge of daytalk ('I forgot that' instead of 'that's true') which seems like far too minute a detail for Sodium to throw in deliberately, and I'm very much unconvinced that this is anything more than tunneling.

[Serp]

But doesn't the case on Sodium sort of revolve around KGH being Town? If Sodium was ignoring a scum lynch to press a second scum, that'd be outright suicide, wouldn't it?

When Sodium voted against KGH, there had been some complaining about Zengar, but no votes.  KGH was looking like a very likely lynch, and so he'd have been extremely busable.  When Zengar popped up as the popular alternative, scum-Sodium would have to choose between saying that he thought Zengar was town, or else he'd need to bus his other buddy.  If this is the case, then what gave him away was his unnatural way of trying to distance himself from both of them.

Wait wait wait you feel iffy on me for not mentioning something that would be detrimental to my case?

Why on Earth would I bring up something like that?

Hopefully because you want the town to make the best lynch available to it, as opposed to just wanting the town to agree with you for town cred. :V

Why'd Zengar unvote Kilga in #98 without revoting someone else? This is mildly notable.

Note that the vote on Kilgamayan was from RVS.

I've already explained that I think asking a scum to claim so early would be a bad tactic for a buddy, especially given Zengar's response when he actually DID claim. Add his lack of knowledge of daytalk ('I forgot that' instead of 'that's true') which seems like far too minute a detail for Sodium to throw in deliberately, and I'm very much unconvinced that this is anything more than tunneling.

The thing is, those are both really really easy to fake.  Clearing someone based on bad play is never a good idea.

The point that bumped Sodium above KGH on my list of suspicions was his 362 where he drops a vote on KGH without any attempt to look at the case in the context of Zengar's flip.  He could've figured that he was going to get lynched anyway, so he might as well distance himself from KGH (or attach himself, I suppose - votes are funny that way), but the important thing is that he doens't look like he really wants to find scum.

[?lice Bl?ckb?rn]

I'm still not understanding why the supposed cheerleading makes Sodium scum by default. I still attest that Kitten's ignoring the wagon is worse than agreeing with it, so why does Sodium get all the attention?

I'm not sure how ignoring the wagon and tunnelling on a wagon is somehow better than agreeing with it yet not adding support to it by means of a VOTE. The first can at least be seen as Town behaviour: a NoobTown(TM) tunnelling on someone. The second is much more horrible because it lets someone claim that "oh, no, I *DID* support $FellowScum's lynch, see! see!!!" while at the same time not bussing them until it finally became inevitable.

Anyway, I suppose this is beyond typical play because I have a lot of theories, but at the moment most of them depend on finding out Sodium Bromate's alignment. That and tbqh I kind of think that he's obvscum.

[FinnKaenbyou]

The thing is, those are both really really easy to fake.  Clearing someone based on bad play is never a good idea.

*puts on Pesco ears*
I'm having trouble believing Sodium would be able to pull something like that off, usa~.

The point that bumped Sodium above KGH on my list of suspicions was his 362 where he drops a vote on KGH without any attempt to look at the case in the context of Zengar's flip.

Alright, first off, I should explicitly point out that Zengar's flip does nothing at all to make KGH look more townie.

[Serp]

The point that bumped Sodium above KGH on my list of suspicions was his 362 where he drops a vote on KGH without any attempt to look at the case in the context of Zengar's flip.

Alright, first off, I should explicitly point out that Zengar's flip does nothing at all to make KGH look more townie.

I explained why that was the case.  Sodium didn't even consider Zengar's flip one way or the other.

[Sodium]

Alice: You have a lot of fun remixing my name, don't you? >_>

And his Edible vote was stupid because his suspicion list a post previous to his vote pretty much said that Kilga was the scummiest to him. He instead choose a prod vote instead of voting the guy who he thought was scummy. And he had to be prodded to even make a vote. And that's what I did in Rouhou Remix as scum.

I said that I was going to vote him, but I didn't want to bring him to L-1 with that much time left. Now, this is assuming he was at L-2, which I thought he was. I read the vote count wrong, so I thought Zengar was at L-2, and KGH was at L-3, but it was the other way around.

And lastly, I was simply looking at both Seniwac and Zengar at the same time. Would it have been better for me to not comment on the Zengar wagon, especially when he was acting the way he was?

Serp: Me saying that "I still think Seniwac is scum" implies that nothing has changed for Seniwac's situation, meaning the flip had no effect either way.

So Seniwac still hasn't scumhunted, owing to the fact he still hasn't posted since his second question post. Hell, he didn't even comment on my answer to his question.

And Alice's replacement catchup post has nothing new! But it's a replacement catchup post.

And Edible needs to either actually become The Batman, or start contributing on a semi-regular basis.

[Nachtwanderlied]

Sodium's attacks against me are incredibly and hilarious suited to him right now. And that's not a joke. Looking awfully suspicious.

So why didn't you switch votes to Zengar earlier, especially when my wagon was dying down? If you found him very suspicious, why didn't you pursue the easier lynch?

Also I find it amusing that a portion of your case rests on "I DID IT WHEN I WAS SCUM." Just because you did it once and you were scum doesn't mean I am scum when I do it.

##VOTE EXNA2O2

Roleclaim, etc.

[FinnKaenbyou]

And Edible needs to either actually become The Batman

Guess what's showing up in the next update of the crack fic?

[UncertainJakutten]

And that's L-1. I would hope no one hammers before stuff happens?

[Nachtwanderlied]

And Edible needs to either actually become The Batman

Guess what's showing up in the next update of the crack fic?

umu?

[Edible]

asdf

umu?

The person or the m- *shot*

[Sodium]

Sodium's attacks against me are incredibly and hilarious suited to him right now. And that's not a joke. Looking awfully suspicious.

Wat? I'm suspicious for attacking you? I'm suspicious for doing stuff that is in character? Holy crap, what sort of attack is that?

So why didn't you switch votes to Zengar earlier, especially when my wagon was dying down? If you found him very suspicious, why didn't you pursue the easier lynch?

Wat? I'm supposed to pursue the easier lynch? I'm supposed to pursue the lynch on who I think is scum, which was you at that point, although my judgment on whether you or Zengar were scummier at that time had been clouded by some tunnel bias. You seem to be misguided on WHAT TOWN IS SUPPOSED TO FUCKING DO, WHICH IS SCUMHUNT, NOT GO FOR EASY LYNCHES.

Also I find it amusing that a portion of your case rests on "I DID IT WHEN I WAS SCUM." Just because you did it once and you were scum doesn't mean I am scum when I do it.

Cool Story Bro. The two points that are backed by that float by themselves; you're asking a bunch of questions that go nowhere which IS NOT SCUMHUNTING, and weaksauce prod vote was BAD. You had said that Kilga was scummier to you, but then you vote Edible as a prod when there's 12 hours left in the day.

Nice garbage post, my good buddy.

L-1 Claim:
I am Byakuren Hiziri, Sealed Great Magician, Town Doctor. I only have 3 charges though. If you're wondering who I protected last night, it was Serp, but that seems to have missed the mark.

[UncertainJakutten]

L-1 Claim:
I am Byakuren Hiziri, Sealed Great Magician, Town Doctor. I only have 3 charges though. If you're wondering who I protected last night, it was Serp, but that seems to have missed the mark.

Why does this sound familiar?

[FinnKaenbyou]

L-1 Claim:
I am Byakuren Hiziri, Sealed Great Magician, Town Doctor. I only have 3 charges though. If you're wondering who I protected last night, it was Serp, but that seems to have missed the mark.

Mind explaining why you thought Serp was going to be hit?

Waiting for a doc CC, if there is one.

[Nachtwanderlied]

memes

ahahahaha

point 1: if "in-character" you mean going "YEEEP THAT'S A MISTAKE OR META IT'S MY PLAYSTYLE FOR IGNORING RULES" and not giving a crap about other points being brougt up/finding new cases it's totally in character.

point 2: i would assume that since you found Zengar scummy too and my bandwagon was dying off, you would  attempt to get the other scummy person rather than wasting a vote

so yeah sodium

why did you protect serp again?

[Sodium]

I dunno. You tell me. I'm telling the truth though, so any familiarities are probably coincidences, or the mod screwing around with us.

Roukan:
1. Gut >_>
2. Serp is generally attacked at Night from my experience
3. I thought he was town(can't go around protecting scum)
4. WIFOM stuff (ie: I thought Kiro would be someone scum would think was protected, Seniwac wouldn't be attacked even if he was town, etc.)

Seniwac: Do you read what you type? You said that I was attacking you in a way "suited for me"(in character), I ask what the hell are you're talking about, and then you respond with...

point 1: if "in-character" you mean going "YEEEP THAT'S A MISTAKE OR META IT'S MY PLAYSTYLE FOR IGNORING RULES" and not giving a crap about other points being brougt up/finding new cases it's totally in character.

What do you mean exactly? I don't get it. Also, what other points? And I'm pursuing a case, so why should I immediately drop that case, and look for new cases?

So I heard you put a throw away vote on Edible on Day 1, instead of the person you thought was scummier(Kilga). Nice vote wasting.

[UncertainJakutten]

I dunno. You tell me. I'm telling the truth though, so any familiarities are probably coincidences, or the mod screwing around with us.

A VERY ballsy Alice claim from a couple games ago that fooled us completely.

[Kitten4u]

I'm going to give everyone a chance to CC before doing anything with Sodium.

Did my reread on Edible.  It seems like the only really scummy thing he did D1 was not post much, but if he really was busy I think that's excusable.  I don't like that he diliberately didn't say anything because it looked like his choice lynch was going to go through, but that's the only bad feeling I get from him right now.  Still reading him as nuetral.

[Edible]

A VERY ballsy Alice claim from a couple games ago that fooled us completely.

He was there.  If you'll recall, Sodium WAS the doc that time.  We lynched him instead of Alice. :V