Communication Breakdance (Game Over! Town win)

[Suwako Moriya]

A newbie probably would not know what RVS even stands for.

[?q]

/r/ catfight while we're here

mrow ffft

ITT UK hydras with herself?

-----

Serpentarius:  Why is KGH worth voting for his roleclaim?  (No, I did not just answer my own question.)

Pesco 84 is scummy too.  Contrast Kilga 87 and UK 88.

As always, those ignoring a fine exit from RVS get my suspicion (Kitten, Kilga, Edible), but as much as it bugs me, the flips after every game where it happens seem to prove that it's not a very reliable scumtell.

...what?  I'm reading this as saying that people are scummy for not dwelling on KGH's premature claim when doing so would be anti-Town in the event that some scum didn't catch it.  Seriously?

Zengar 98 is a good example of "waffling".  Pay attention, new players.

Kitten4u needs to post about something other than KGH.

Suwako Moriya (the player, not the character) is my hero for beating me to the vote that's going to come at the end of this post.

I don't think it's implausible for KGH to have deliberately claimed; this is not his first game and he's not completely inexperienced with Mafia (in fact, if this is Seniwac he's actually on the blacklist).  I don't have a serious problem with the reasoning behind the wagon, but I don't buy it personally.

##Unvote: Khorneish Game Hen
##Season And Bake For 50 Minutes: Khorneish Game Hen
##Vote: Serpentarius (L-6)

[UncertainJakutten]

And how did this thrash the newbie excuse? Would an experienced player admit that consciously? Also why vote on me when you seem unsecure on your point. And why would this data gathered be unnatural?

Well, the fact that you are trying to WIFOM about what an experienced player would do when you are trying to pretend to not be one is one thing. Secondly the fact that you were intentionally trying to end the RVS with something you KNEW was anti town both damages your chances of being town as well as the odds you are a newbie.

As for data gathered, the idea is, if you WERE a townie doing something scummy to get us out of RVS, you just took a bullet for scum fucking up by accident.

Your OMGUS is appreciated and tastes like strawberry ice cream.

[Zengar Zombolt]

Seniwac: Well, there may be no other topic, but it could encourage searching for someone else. At least that's a possible interpretation, I may be wrong. Now, doing this just for ending RVS quickly tells me you want to see a fast lynch. Rushed, even.

[UncertainJakutten]

ITT UK hydras with herself?

I should do this sometime on MS. TehVariable and forbiddanlight hydra!

Good point on Serpy, but I REALLY don't like Seniwac's apparent familiarity with mafia yet STILL making a "newbie mistake"

Seniwac: Well, there may be no other topic, but it could encourage searching for someone else. At least that's a possible interpretation, I may be wrong. Now, doing this just for ending RVS quickly tells me you want to see a fast lynch. Rushed, even.

This point is weaker, I doubt that was his intent as either alignment as a quickly ended RVS wouldn't necessarily have this follow. He'd also have to know that it'd be his lynched that was rushed if anything.

[Suwako Moriya]

I don't know why I bother posting at all when UK says everything I want to say.

[Nachtwanderlied]

And how did this thrash the newbie excuse? Would an experienced player admit that consciously? Also why vote on me when you seem unsecure on your point. And why would this data gathered be unnatural?

Well, the fact that you are trying to WIFOM about what an experienced player would do when you are trying to pretend to not be one is one thing. Secondly the fact that you were intentionally trying to end the RVS with something you KNEW was anti town both damages your chances of being town as well as the odds you are a newbie.

As for data gathered, the idea is, if you WERE a townie doing something scummy to get us out of RVS, you just took a bullet for scum fucking up by accident.

Your OMGUS is appreciated and tastes like strawberry ice cream.

You still haven't answered why you voted while being unsure about my alignment. The only thing you are sure about is my apparent experience.

And what is there to say that scum won't make another mistake?

[UncertainJakutten]

You still haven't answered why you voted while being unsure about my alignment. The only thing you are sure about is my apparent experience.

And what is there to say that scum won't make another mistake?

Assumably, we'd all pass Turing tests. We are all human. Humans make mistakes by nature.

As for why I voted while unsure of your alignment, the only person who's alignment I know for sure is my own. While I was only leaning somewhat scum on you, your subsequent reactions to my vote lead me further to believe you are caught mafia.

So, if I may ask, are you voting me because you are 100% certain I am scum?

In which case, may I assume you will never unvote me?

[Zengar Zombolt]

This point is weaker, I doubt that was his intent as either alignment as a quickly ended RVS wouldn't necessarily have this follow. He'd also have to know that it'd be his lynched that was rushed if anything.

Yeah, now that you point out that... Eh, I'm keeping my vote empty for now. It's still a possibility, so Seniwac's not fully clean yet.

[Serp]

Serpentarius:  Why is KGH worth voting for his roleclaim?  (No, I did not just answer my own question.)

Notice that I hadn't had time to give the customary offering to the RVS gods when KGH made his post.  I could've called him out on an anti-town roleclaim and then random voted on someone else, but since strictly speaking, RVS was over by that point, it wouldn't have been useful to do so.

As always, those ignoring a fine exit from RVS get my suspicion (Kitten, Kilga, Edible), but as much as it bugs me, the flips after every game where it happens seem to prove that it's not a very reliable scumtell.

...what?  I'm reading this as saying that people are scummy for not dwelling on KGH's premature claim when doing so would be anti-Town in the event that some scum didn't catch it.  Seriously?

I think my wording was pretty clear, but I have no idea what you're saying here.  "saying that people are scummy for not dwelling on KGH's premature claim," yes.  "when doing so would be anti-Town in the event that some scum didn't catch it," what?  My point was that even though ignoring statements that could legitimately bring the town out of RVS is not a strong scumtell, it's still not a townie move.  What did you think I was saying, and why was it voteworthy?

Actually:

Good point on Serpy

Before you answer, I'd like Kitten to say just what she thought your point was, 'cause I literally can't see it.

[UncertainJakutten]

Before you answer, I'd like Kitten to say just what she thought your point was, 'cause I literally can't see it.

Wafflyness

[Edible]

Two cats in this shindig.

Please do not refer to UK as "Kitten", for sanity purposes. :|

[WHMZakeri]

The "Omigosh! There's kittens EVERYWHERE" Votecount


EX Na2O2 (L-6): Pesco
Suwako J. Moriya (L-6): Kiro
Kiro (L-7): Suwako J. Moriya
u?(L-7):  Khorneish Game Hen
Khorneish Game Hen(L-4): u?, Serpentarius, Uncertain Kitten, Suwako J. Moriya
Hizengar Byakuren (L-7): Kilgamayan
Pesco (L-6): EX Na2O2, Kilgamayan
Edible (L-6): Kitten4u
Kilgamayan (L-7):Hizengar Byakuren
UncertainKitten (L-5): UncertainKitten, Ex Na2O2, Khorneish Game Hen
Serpentarius (L-7): Suwako J. Moriya, U?

[?q]

Zengar is not just scummy, but awesomely scummy. 

KGH is doing an awesome job of validating his own wagon.

Notice that I hadn't had time to give the customary offering to the RVS gods when KGH made his post.  I could've called him out on an anti-town roleclaim and then random voted on someone else, but since strictly speaking, RVS was over by that point, it wouldn't have been useful to do so.

One.  Stop saying things like "RVS was over".  There is no such thing as a clearly defined random voting stage.
Two.  I don't care that you didn't get a chance to random vote.
Three.  You didn't answer the question.  As of that time, what was anti-Town about that roleclaim?

As to the second quote, again.  The concept of a clearly defined random voting stage is a delusion you're clinging to at best and a prop for accusing three people who made some pretty Town reactions to KGH's trip at worst.

-----

@Edible:  Don't just pop in like that and not comment on who's scum~

-----

@Zakeri:  SUDDENLY, KITTENS!  THOUSANDS OF THEM!

[Nachtwanderlied]

Explain why you believe my roleclaim was not anti-town and RVS's non-existance.

[?q]

Explain why you believe my roleclaim was not anti-town and RVS's non-existance.

Before I answer the first one, I would like to know your motivation for asking.

As for the second one, notice that I said there does not exist a clearly defined RVS.
Nobody was under any obligation to post about your statement after you made it, especially in this case.

[Nachtwanderlied]

Before I answer the first one, I would like to know your motivation for asking.

As for the second one, notice that I said there does not exist a clearly defined RVS.
Nobody was under any obligation to post about your statement after you made it, especially in this case.

Motivation is that why would you believe my statement to be not anti-town when there's been a clear reason and confirmation that the statement was meant to be anti-town.

[Serp]

Please do not refer to UK as "Kitten", for sanity purposes. :|

...

Good point.  Duly noted.

As of that time, what was anti-Town about that roleclaim?

If he's town, then that post is an attempt to divert night kills away from him - it's an attempt to look less useful to the town.  If he's vanilla townie, then if he's less likely to get killed by scum, the town's power roles must be more likely to get hit by scum.

As to the second quote, again.  The concept of a clearly defined random voting stage is a delusion you're clinging to at best and a prop for accusing three people who made some pretty Town reactions to KGH's trip at worst.

Firstly, I see no way at all that your second quote up there could be interpreted to mean this.

Secondly, you're completely wrong.  When a person posts without commenting on any relevant points, that's called active lurking.  In the beginning of the game, this is excusable, because there are no relevant points to discuss.  Once a discussion-worthy point pops up, posting without weighing in on it is equivalent to just trying to slide by under the radar and let someone else expose himself to flak.  As I said, this is more common than I'd like, but just because townies can and do make this mistake doesn't mean that it's not scummy.

[Kitten4u]

Please do not refer to UK as "Kitten", for sanity purposes. :|

This really.  I'm getting confused.

---

...And suddenly my opinion on KGH changes.  The only reason I considered the claim a null tell was because it looked like you really didn't know that claiming early was bad.  But you knew it was bad?  Seriously?  At this point I'm just repeating what other people have said, so I'll stop.  Anyway, this quote stands out to me.

And what is there to say that scum won't make another mistake?

What was the other mistake(s)?

##Unvote
##Vote Khorneish Game Hen

Kitten4u needs to post about something other than KGH.

I haven't had much to say about other people, but okay.

Currently UK and Suwako look town to me.  Only person besides KGH that made me raise my eyebrow is Zengar because just about everything he says sounds very non-commital to me.  Everyone else looks nuetral to me.

[?q]

Okay, Serp.  Do you contend that there was a duty to explain to everyone (scum included) that the Game Hen had written himself completely off the NK possibility list for the rest of the game as soon as possible?

----

@KGH:  My issue can be clearly seen here: 

If he's town, then that post is an attempt to divert night kills away from him - it's an attempt to look less useful to the town.  If he's vanilla townie, then if he's less likely to get killed by scum, the town's power roles must be more likely to get hit by scum.

Notice that nowhere has anyone considered that you are scum based on your early roleclaim, which is the most important part of being a good lynch candidate in the first place.
There *is* motivation for scum to commit an intentional slip like that, namely that it would explain in the future why they are never night-killed.  However, I actually would put it past you to do that.  If I'm wrong on this, you win two Happy Smile points and whatever's left of my dignity on this site.

This is why I have said that while I don't disagree with the case on you, I do not think it will lead to a scumlynch.

[Nachtwanderlied]

But they're not lynching me on the early roleclaim. Their case is more on the fact I did this to stop RVS and my hilarious attempts to defend myself after.

[Serp]

Okay, Serp.  Do you contend that there was a duty to explain to everyone (scum included) that the Game Hen had written himself completely off the NK possibility list for the rest of the game as soon as possible?

You seem to be implying that if I hadn't pointed out that scum should try to kill power roles, they wouldn't have realized it themselves.  Anyway, to answer your question, yes, that falls within townies' duty to publicly analyze everything they see.

[?q]

But they're not lynching me on the early roleclaim. Their case is more on the fact I did this to stop RVS and my hilarious attempts to defend myself after.

And it sounds like you're enjoying every minute of it.

@Serpentarius:  I disagree on a couple of levels.  However, I don't think this discussion can go much farther than that.

I'd actually like for Kilga and Edible to say something on this subject.  In the meantime, I'm going to go hunt the newbscum.

Unvote: Serpentarius
Vote: Hizengar Byakuren (L-6)

[?q]

Edit because Zakeri likes being pounded.
##Unvote: Serpentarius
##Vote: Hizengar Byakuren

[Sodium]

Whoa, Edible. 1/2ths of the posts you made are joke posts. The other 1/4 is saying something is a nulltell while mentioning vague suspicion. The other other 1/4 is telling people not to mix up UK and Kitten(I'll admit that this is important). You sure are being useful. When did you turn into Pesco?

Seniwac: ...Ending RVS early by doing something stupid is moronic. Usually, the guy who did said stupid thing is lynched Day 1.

I did a re-read, and combined with UK's most recent posts, I'm removing my vote off of UK because my case is sorta dead, and there are bigger fish to fry. There's Edible who's acting like Pesco, Seniwac who is in general, sucking, and then there's Chen who hasn't even posted yet. Oh, and Pesco, but it goes without saying, but this time, he doesn't seem outlandishly anti-town. Zengar is also pretty bad with his waffles on Seniwac, and he has little to offer aside from said waffles on Seniwac.

##Unvote
##Vote Khorneish Game Hen (L-2)
He's sorta like Pesco. Does something stupid early game, and then acts smug about it. However, we have added "lol I was endan RVS early" and "I'm newb, but I'm really not" and "askan questions people have answered". L-2 shouldn't be too much to worry about, as it's L-1 and Hammer votes that are the major steps imo.

##Cattle Prod Edible (person I would vote next as a prod)
Edible, are you going to say who you think is scum aside from extremely vague suspicions? Are you going to contribute? You can do better then this.

Where be the Third Cat Kitten, Chen Yakumo? This is getting into stupid territory.

[UncertainJakutten]

L-2 shouldn't be too much to worry about, as it's L-1 and Hammer votes that are the major steps imo.

Do remember that scum can daytalk. It's probably not as much of a problem now, but it will be in later days.

[?q]

Um... Sodium, why is KGH more likely to be scum than any of the people you just mentioned?

[Edible]

I'd actually like for Kilga and Edible to say something on this subject.  In the meantime, I'm going to go hunt the newbscum.

I already did.  It smacks of newbtown attempting to generate discussion via silliness, but his mannerisms slightly indicate otherwise.  Thus, null tell.  It's something to talk about, certainly, but I feel we're barking up the wrong tree (it just happens to be the only tree in the park at the moment).

@Sodium: Nice hardline investigation of me for early day 1.  Keep up the good work, soldier.  You're scum, right?

[Kiro]

Seniwac: You saying you're Vanilla Townie just introduces a WIFOM that's unneeded. There's more Townies than Scum so you're just going to confuse Town more than Mafia. Hell, you introducing that could go as far as saying, because Scum have no need to attack me, it shouldn't be unusual if I never die. Which is problematic if you're actually Scum. Man, this whole thing is dumb, but not completely farfetched. And the problem was that it was willful.

Oh, umu just stated this right before me. I'd vote KGH as well, but this focus is getting too narrow so might as well branch out.

---

Sodium is jumping out at me for saying UK is ignoring that roleclaim. It should be obvious that she's not going to ignore it completely. Also, there was nothing wrong with voting for KGH that early even if you saw KGH had more votes than UK and you thought the two were about equal in suspiciousness. You're a little too conscious of where your vote is when the wagons are nowhere near the limit.

Regarding Serp and his fascination with the boundary of RVS and srsbsns: he's did it last game and got hounded early. Well, he was the SK though. But I'd chalk it up to his personal play style. I don't disagree with his point about Townies duty to publically analyze things because we're all doing it, including you, umu, in #139.

But I'm going to vote Zengar. Call it bullying, tough love, or whatever, but take a stand on something, anything. You sitting back (twice if I recall correctly) is like trying to calculate the most opportune lynch to go for. And we can't have that lategame, so I'm getting on you for it now. No one is going to be quicklynched as long as you don't send someone to L-1 so let's see an original opinion of your own come forth.

##Unvote Suwako J. Moriya
##Vote Zengar

Goddamnit umu, why are you getting these words in before me?! Only Pesco was able to ninja me before.

Cut by Sodium: Umm, hmm. I don't want to be cut anymore. Let me get this out first and I'll think about your latest post.

[?q]

I already did.  It smacks of newbtown attempting to generate discussion via silliness, but his mannerisms slightly indicate otherwise.  Thus, null tell.  It's something to talk about, certainly, but I feel we're barking up the wrong tree (it just happens to be the only tree in the park at the moment).

Oh right, now I remember.
I think I asked you earlier to talk about virtually anything else.  Or maybe I'm just imagining I posted that.
Either way, please direct us to a better proverbial tree.