Author Topic: Why so few music threads?  (Read 8208 times)

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Why so few music threads?
« on: July 21, 2016, 07:20:32 PM »
One thing I find surprising - nay, shocking - about this subforum is the striking lack of music threads, especially considering what an important part of Touhou games is music and how many people come here drawn by their outstanding soundtracks. With this in mind, why? Why so few music (generally music, not just Touhou music) threads? Have they been tried before and didn't work out? Is the topic too broad for this subforum? Is there a curse at work? I find this state of affair puzzling.

Personally I'm greatly interested in metal music, so if there's anyone willing to strike up a conversation, go ahead.
Рабинович глядит на плакат ?Ленин умер, но дело его живет!?
? уж лучше бы о он жил!

Jq1790

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Re: Why so few music threads?
« Reply #1 on: July 21, 2016, 09:54:46 PM »
I think the reason so few pop up is the stuff more in line with what people talk about here is Touhou-themed or a game, leading it to belong in TARC or Akyuu's, respectively.

What kind of metal are you talking?  I know several sub-genres exist but I'm not very familiar with most as my metal is usually of the power metal variety(DragonForce, sonata Arctica, etc) if it's not anime/game related or something.
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commandercool

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Re: Why so few music threads?
« Reply #2 on: July 21, 2016, 10:35:02 PM »
I was a big metalhead in high school, not so much any more. Incidentally ended up listening to every Nightwish album except the last one last Sunday just because it popped up in my music feed. It was fun to go back to, but goddamn, metal is so high-maintenance. 
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Jq1790

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Re: Why so few music threads?
« Reply #3 on: July 21, 2016, 10:39:16 PM »
I was a big metalhead in high school, not so much any more. Incidentally ended up listening to every Nightwish album except the last one last Sunday just because it popped up in my music feed. It was fun to go back to, but goddamn, metal is so high-maintenance. 
Ah, I've heard some stuff about Nightwish, like there's some divide between two eras for them or some such...?  I have "Imaginaerium"; would that be older or newer Nightwish?  Curious what the "other era" is like so I can compare and see which I prefer myself.
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commandercool

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Re: Why so few music threads?
« Reply #4 on: July 21, 2016, 11:30:55 PM »
Ah, I've heard some stuff about Nightwish, like there's some divide between two eras for them or some such...?  I have "Imaginaerium"; would that be older or newer Nightwish?  Curious what the "other era" is like so I can compare and see which I prefer myself.

Nightwish has actually gone through three distinct eras, sort of.

To give an abbreviated history, when they started their lead vocalist was a woman named Tarja Turunen, who was a classically trained opera singer which gave them a really distinct sound. If we're talking Nightwish eras I might even say they had two eras with Turunen since her style softened a bit after a while. The track below is from the transition period between her really harsh operatic vocals and the slightly less intense period that followed.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bf1-n-RrhVc

As they got more popular she got progressively more difficult to work with until she and the band had a really ugly breakup and they replaced here with a woman named Annette Olzon, who had a bit more of a traditional metal voice and gave them more of a standard power metal sound.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GdZn7k5rZLQ

They seemed to be getting along pretty well, but for one reason or another they broke off with her as well mid-tour. I was at their second (or third, I forget) last show together in Chicago. At the time they claimed it was because she had gotten a bad throat infection while touring, but since then in interviews she has pointed fingers at the separation being pretty sketchy and possibly to do with the fact that she was pregnant.

Anyway, following that they picked up a third female vocalist, a woman named Floor Jansen (who you may know as the former vocalist of After Forever), and honestly I'm not too familiar with the album they recorded together, which was their most recent one. I did see them on tour for that album, but it was dense as shit and I just couldn't get into it. I know a lot of people love it, but I just don't really have the patience for super dense symphonic metal concept albums any more so there's not too much I can say.

Imaginaerum is the second and last Annette Olzon Nightwish album, and the last one I'm really familiar with. If you want to compare it to an album from the previous era, Oceanborn (their second album) is probably my favorite one overall.
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Jq1790

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Re: Why so few music threads?
« Reply #5 on: July 22, 2016, 12:11:27 AM »
I'll definitely look into 'Oceanborn' so thanks for taking the time to make such a detailed writeup!
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Re: Why so few music threads?
« Reply #6 on: July 22, 2016, 04:23:49 AM »
What kind of metal are you talking?  I know several sub-genres exist but I'm not very familiar with most as my metal is usually of the power metal variety(DragonForce, sonata Arctica, etc) if it's not anime/game related or something.
It's still surprisingly fluid, recently I've been getting into some of the more extreme subgenres that I didn't think I'd ever enjoy, such as death, death/thrash or black/thrash. But I've had a phase of listening purely to heavy and power metal too. My power metal favourites are Rhapsody of Fire, Sabaton and Powerwolf. Familiar with any of these?

I was a big metalhead in high school, not so much any more. Incidentally ended up listening to every Nightwish album except the last one last Sunday just because it popped up in my music feed. It was fun to go back to, but goddamn, metal is so high-maintenance. 
Somehow I managed to go my entire life without listening to Nightwish at all. Symphonic metal just isn't my thing, with the sole exception of Therion up to Lemuria/Sirius B. Old Therion was excellent, able to produce some of the catchiest music I've ever heard.
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? уж лучше бы о он жил!

commandercool

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Re: Why so few music threads?
« Reply #7 on: July 22, 2016, 04:37:46 AM »
It's still surprisingly fluid, recently I've been getting into some of the more extreme subgenres that I didn't think I'd ever enjoy, such as death, death/thrash or black/thrash. But I've had a phase of listening purely to heavy and power metal too. My power metal favourites are Rhapsody of Fire, Sabaton and Powerwolf. Familiar with any of these?

Sabaton opened for Nightwish the last time I saw them. Or maybe it was the time before that, can't really remember. Anyway, they had the scummiest fans I think I've ever seen from a metal band. Just aggro bros everywhere. They seemed fine, really high-energy and goofy, but the crowd they drew was awful.

Rhapsody of Fire is so overblown I honestly don't really usually find them that enjoyable to listen to with the exception of this fucking monstrous Manowar cover which is fantastic. Christopher Lee though. :V
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Re: Why so few music threads?
« Reply #8 on: July 22, 2016, 05:04:58 AM »
Oh, right, Rhapsody!  Yeah their stuff is hit or miss with me, but the ones I like I REALLY like.  (the linked cover being among them)

I've heard of Powerwolf but never looked into em.  Never heard of Sabaton before at all.
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Re: Why so few music threads?
« Reply #9 on: July 22, 2016, 06:14:34 AM »
I have absolutely no idea why would Sabaton draw the wrong kind of fans. Strange. Myself I love them for their military history themes, energetic playing and overall catchiness of pretty much anything they do. Songs like Ghost Division are phenomenal.

Concerning Rhapsody, yes, they're overblown and yes, they're hit or miss, but boy, can they hit the nail right on the head sometimes. The linked Manowar cover is pretty good indeed. Another superb song by Rhapsody  is Dawn of Victory, any of you heard that one?

I've heard of Powerwolf but never looked into em.  Never heard of Sabaton before at all.
I've explained Sabaton above. As for Powerwolf, they're a very quirky band that's a bit difficult to describe. Try listening to We Drink Your Blood or Sanctified with Dynamite to get an idea of what Powerwolf is about. Their music is extremely fun.
« Last Edit: July 22, 2016, 06:16:09 AM by nav' »
Рабинович глядит на плакат ?Ленин умер, но дело его живет!?
? уж лучше бы о он жил!

Zil

Re: Why so few music threads?
« Reply #10 on: July 23, 2016, 06:05:21 PM »
In my opinion, music is intrinsically very difficult to talk about. That's probably why there aren't many music threads on here.

Anyway, I too am a metalhead. If I had to name a favorite genre it would probably be thrash, though most genres generally have at least something to offer, and in fact I'd say thrash rarely reaches the same heights that some other things (like plain old trad metal) have. Thrash to me is the most consistently good though.

On the topic of power metal, that's probably one of my least favorite genres, though there are some things I like, for instance Warlord and the aforementioned Nightwish (though they're more symphonic than power imo).

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Re: Why so few music threads?
« Reply #11 on: July 23, 2016, 07:06:05 PM »
In my opinion, music is intrinsically very difficult to talk about. That's probably why there aren't many music threads on here.
I don't know... Maybe that's true for in-depth discussion, but I've always had the impression music is a very universal topic for casual talk. Almost everyone listens to something and sharing your impressions and recommendations is pretty easy.

Thrash to me is the most consistently good though.
That's true for death metal too. Really bad death is a rare beast indeed.

On the topic of power metal, that's probably one of my least favorite genres
What about a blend of two or more genres that involves power metal? I heard Mystic Prophecy is a particularly well regarded example of such a band. But regular power metal does get a bit samey after a while.
Рабинович глядит на плакат ?Ленин умер, но дело его живет!?
? уж лучше бы о он жил!

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Re: Why so few music threads?
« Reply #12 on: July 23, 2016, 08:14:38 PM »
General music thread right? I hope so because the closest thing to "metal" that I truly fell in love with is the eXceed 3rd soundtrack.

I love a ton of other genres though. It mostly comes down to the "artist" moreso than the "genre"; for instance I like very few rap songs not sung by Eminem.

If I had to pick one genre, though, it'd be EDM. Trance, Vocal Trance, Happy Hardcore, and Electro House are top of my list. I grew up with Daft Punk's Discovery basically on non-stop repeat and that was my gateway drug.
« Last Edit: July 23, 2016, 08:19:38 PM by Silent Harmony »

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commandercool

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Re: Why so few music threads?
« Reply #13 on: July 23, 2016, 09:39:30 PM »
That's true for death metal too. Really bad death is a rare beast indeed.

Disagreeeeed. I basically dropped off of metal because I had to sit through so many terrible, terrible, terrible death metal acts. Made going to shows not fun anymore. Especially since quality and time spent on stage are directly inversely correlated in metal for some reason.
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Re: Why so few music threads?
« Reply #14 on: July 23, 2016, 10:29:27 PM »
General music thread right? I hope so because the closest thing to "metal" that I truly fell in love with is the eXceed 3rd soundtrack.

YES to this, so hard. Especially Celestia's theme. Song is so metal nuclear physicists use it to calibrate their instruments.

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Re: Why so few music threads?
« Reply #15 on: July 24, 2016, 04:17:36 AM »
Disagreeeeed. I basically dropped off of metal because I had to sit through so many terrible, terrible, terrible death metal acts. Made going to shows not fun anymore. Especially since quality and time spent on stage are directly inversely correlated in metal for some reason.
Well then, seems like our experiences are completely divergent. During my effort of getting into death metal I've listened to quite a number of bands, especially those influenced by Incantation and members of the Old School Death Metal revivalism trend. Some were boring, but I can't remember any band I would actively hate. The vast majority is at least solid.

Remember any examples of bands that annoyed you so much?

YES to this, so hard. Especially Celestia's theme. Song is so metal nuclear physicists use it to calibrate their instruments.
Intersect Thunderbolt is great, but it's still no match for this one.
Рабинович глядит на плакат ?Ленин умер, но дело его живет!?
? уж лучше бы о он жил!

commandercool

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Re: Why so few music threads?
« Reply #16 on: July 24, 2016, 04:24:35 AM »
Remember any examples of bands that annoyed you so much?

Nah. Just no-name randos. Think of stereotypical death metal names that you would say in a joke, that was probably them. I see the drummer from one of them around a lot, I know his name, but I don't know what his dumb band was called.

This is kind of unrelated, but you know who's unexpectedly terrible live (and not at all a death metal band)? Kamelot. They opened for Nightwish when I saw them two tours ago and they were surprisingly weak. I'm no huge fan of them in the best of times, but I remember them always being at least fine. Not so much live.
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Re: Why so few music threads?
« Reply #17 on: July 24, 2016, 01:58:04 PM »
Music, huh?

Still a metalhead myself, with Rhapsody being my favourite. Dawn of Victory is just 2gud. Then again, I'm indiscriminate when it comes to music.
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Re: Why so few music threads?
« Reply #18 on: July 24, 2016, 11:20:00 PM »
I don't know... Maybe that's true for in-depth discussion, but I've always had the impression music is a very universal topic for casual talk. Almost everyone listens to something and sharing your impressions and recommendations is pretty easy.
For me at least, it's very hard to put into words why I like something. It's like there's no language for it. I guess it's more a problem if you want to go in-depth though, yes.
Quote
That's true for death metal too. Really bad death is a rare beast indeed.
There are some styles that I pretty much never like (like death doom) but for the most part I feel the same. It's like you can take any random thrash or death album and it's usually at least decent. It makes discovering new albums a lot easier too since I can just play random stuff and not get bored even if I don't end up finding something really great.
Quote
What about a blend of two or more genres that involves power metal? I heard Mystic Prophecy is a particularly well regarded example of such a band. But regular power metal does get a bit samey after a while.
I can't say I'm familiar with much but I will check that band out and see. I have heard a number of bands that people call melodic death metal that to me really just sound like regular power metal with harsh vocals (Amon Amarth, Ensiferum, Wintersun, etc.) That's not a condemnation per se, and in fact I think Ensiferum was not that bad, but I don't see it as a merge of genres.

commandercool

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Re: Why so few music threads?
« Reply #19 on: July 24, 2016, 11:32:33 PM »
Since I feel like I've been Mr. Negative a fair amount, here's a song from my favorite local band ever, Dagon. They were a death metal act who, as you might expect from the name, are ocean-themed. They get a little surf-rock-y sometimes. They disbanded a number of years ago but they're still one of the few metal bands I listen to in my regular rotation. Really underrated, really competent and fun.

For me at least, it's very hard to put into words why I like something. It's like there's no language for it. I guess it's more a problem if you want to go in-depth though, yes.

I'm pretty sure there is a language for it and that's one of the things being a technically trained musician gets you, but I certainly don't know what it is. That's one of the reasons I tend not to talk about music, I'm afraid someone who actually knows what the fuck they're talking about is going to drop in and school me. :V


I have heard a number of bands that people call melodic death metal that to me really just sound like regular power metal with harsh vocals (Amon Amarth, Ensiferum, Wintersun, etc.) That's not a condemnation per se, and in fact I think Ensiferum was not that bad, but I don't see it as a merge of genres.

Ensiferum is really fun. You just made me go dig them back up.
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nav'

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Re: Why so few music threads?
« Reply #20 on: July 25, 2016, 06:30:00 AM »
For me at least, it's very hard to put into words why I like something. It's like there's no language for it. I guess it's more a problem if you want to go in-depth though, yes.
I don't know, a basic description seems simple enough to do. For example, why do I like Incantation and similar bands? It's the raw, dirty sound, crushing atmosphere and themes of doom, decay and otherworldly horrors. The riffs are rarely catchy, but still rather enthralling. And the thicker the guitar sounds, the better.

There are some styles that I pretty much never like (like death doom)
Agreed here, death doom seems like it's missing the best parts of both genres and the sluggish pace seems to be going nowhere. The sole exception I can think of is Runemagick, a superb band that started out as pure death metal and slowed their playing down over the years. Their early material is best.

I'm pretty sure there is a language for it and that's one of the things being a technically trained musician gets you, but I certainly don't know what it is. That's one of the reasons I tend not to talk about music, I'm afraid someone who actually knows what the fuck they're talking about is going to drop in and school me. :V
Same here, I certainly don't have any actual knowledge of music, just experience in listening. Still that's no reason to be afraid of expressing our subjective opinions! In the worst case, someone schools us as you say and we learn something new.

By the way, Dagon? Sounds tempting, lovecraftian themes are among my favourite things in metal. They're very fitting for death metal, but stuff like this is lovely as well.
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? уж лучше бы о он жил!

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Re: Why so few music threads?
« Reply #21 on: July 25, 2016, 08:33:53 AM »
Can't say I know too much about metal, but Nightwish was definitely a huge part of my middle/high school days. I am one of those people who definitely preferred Tarja, but honestly Annette was good too. A bit weak on Dark Passion Play, but it's not like she was bad. Her voice did not suit some of the songs, and I remember some people saying that she sounded too much like a pop star. Imaginaerium, however, was really wonderful. I'm not sure what changed, but her vocals and the music complemented each other much better. I have not listened to the latest album, though. It's been a while since I had a real interest in Nightwish.

As far as my favourite albums, well, it would be easier to say that I don't care for the first one much at all and Dark Passion Play, while some of the composition is quite nice, just has too much of a clash between Annette and everything else. For songs, I like "Deep Silent Complete", "The Crow, the Owl, and the Dove", "The Islander", and at the top probably is "The Siren".

Like I said, I don't listen to much in terms of metal. Other than Nightwish, it's mostly just Wolves in the Throne Room and Lacrimas Profundere. Wolves can be a bit too heavy and screamo for me, but "Diadem of 12 Stars" is pretty awesome, save for a dull 5 minute section in the middle. Lacrimas is generally good. I'm pretty on-board with German singers doing English lyrics. Sometimes there is a point where I'm not entirely sure what they're trying to describe, but great vocals.

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Re: Why so few music threads?
« Reply #22 on: July 26, 2016, 09:08:16 PM »
If you love naturally beautiful voices with a R&B/Soul style then you need to buy Jess Glynne's music. She's most famous for this Clean Bandit song, but her solo stuff is seriously amazing.

Anybody else have any favorite up-and-coming musicians?

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Re: Why so few music threads?
« Reply #23 on: August 13, 2016, 07:52:38 PM »
Quite a fan of Jess Glynne's voice myself. Joss Stone is more along the touching subject of difficult relationships, though she's got good melody and soul too.
Also into Ellie Goulding and Katy B for affectionate female voices.

As for up-and-coming artists, I'm a little stuck in the past right now, as it's difficult to appreciate modern trends. There might be a few once in a while, I'll have to listen more.

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Re: Why so few music threads?
« Reply #24 on: August 30, 2016, 09:01:51 AM »
Quite surprised no one has mentioned Korpliklaani and Finntroll since Ensiferum appeared. But maybe it was just blind luck I chanced upon the three together.

Another artist with a really nice voice is Jonsi Birgisson, the vocalist of Sigur Ros. Theur stuff is quite ambient though, but interesting if you want to try something different.

Re: Why so few music threads?
« Reply #25 on: August 31, 2016, 01:49:13 AM »
Can't say I know too much about metal, but Nightwish was definitely a huge part of my middle/high school days. I am one of those people who definitely preferred Tarja, but honestly Annette was good too. A bit weak on Dark Passion Play, but it's not like she was bad. Her voice did not suit some of the songs, and I remember some people saying that she sounded too much like a pop star. Imaginaerium, however, was really wonderful. I'm not sure what changed, but her vocals and the music complemented each other much better. I have not listened to the latest album, though. It's been a while since I had a real interest in Nightwish.

As far as my favourite albums, well, it would be easier to say that I don't care for the first one much at all and Dark Passion Play, while some of the composition is quite nice, just has too much of a clash between Annette and everything else. For songs, I like "Deep Silent Complete", "The Crow, the Owl, and the Dove", "The Islander", and at the top probably is "The Siren".

If you liked Tarja-era Nightwish, she later went solo, so you can still get your Tarja fix. Other Metal bands in this vein I really enjoy are Kamelot and Within Temptation. Personally I enjoy the majority of the output of each, but if I had to recommend one album to listen to in order to get a really good idea of which artist is about I would highly recommend Kamelot - Ghost Opera and Within Temptation - The Heart of Everything.

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Re: Why so few music threads?
« Reply #26 on: September 12, 2016, 06:57:12 AM »
Can't believe I've not come across Goth-Trad much earlier. I think Cut End is my favourite by him so far.
His new album Psionics is coming starting from September, looking forward already