Author Topic: 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character  (Read 132785 times)

Re: 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character
« Reply #90 on: August 07, 2013, 06:17:41 AM »
What if MarisaB's bomb made bullets into PIV instead of power items?

You'd still have to try to maximize the bullets you cancel with each bomb, but it would no longer break survival play.

I can't run anything past MoF on 60 fps so even worse for me :|

Karisa

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Re: 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character
« Reply #91 on: August 07, 2013, 07:26:09 AM »
What if MarisaB's bomb made bullets into PIV instead of power items?
All DDC bombs already do that. Except during spells, where only SakuyaB's does for some reason (the others simply remove the bullets like in other MoF+ games). Bombing nonspells for PIV is a normal part of DDC scoring with any shot type.

Have you had a chance to watch any DDC scoring yet? I know you said you can't run the game at full speed, but I've uploaded a few videos and streamed it a few times.
« Last Edit: August 07, 2013, 07:43:41 AM by Karisa »

Re: 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character
« Reply #92 on: August 07, 2013, 11:24:49 AM »
@Zengeku: I can re-add them to my files if you'd prefer; it shouldn't take more than a few minutes. Though if I recall correctly, you said you didn't release your latest Lunatic SakuyaA score anyway?

Yeah, i never released the most recent SakuyaA score i think. Don't even know why. But as i said, doesn't really matter. It's less than a week before the full game is released so everything's going to obsolete very soon anyway.

Zil

Re: 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character
« Reply #93 on: August 07, 2013, 08:26:34 PM »
What if MarisaB's bomb made bullets into PIV instead of power items?

You'd still have to try to maximize the bullets you cancel with each bomb, but it would no longer break survival play.
Aside from what Karisa said, it would remove the aspect of having to hit the PoC while the bomb is active, which would make it a lot less interesting in my opinion. You'd also get less bombs overall, and I kind of like how they're being used so often. It keeps the player constantly doing something interesting.

Karisa

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Re: 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character
« Reply #94 on: August 08, 2013, 10:40:06 AM »
I wouldn't say that non-MarisaB scoring is less interesting (I find SakuyaB the most interesting, since she can profit from bombing so many patterns that it's about chaining for extra resources to spend), but MarisaB without the item-generating bomb would certainly lose that unique scoring style. So I guess the overall range of DDC scoring styles would be less interesting.

The other bombs have their own distinct qualities, though the playing style is relatively similar except for SakuyaB's spell canceling (and maybe ReimuA's PoC chaining). For example, ReimuA's gohei bomb doesn't really hit the player's position, so it can be used to supergraze on top of a boss. And MarisaA's Dark Spark is a trade-off between hitting the boss for more bullet cancels, or aiming away from the boss for lower damage so you can use additional bombs on that nonspell.

...I've really put a lot of time into scoring this.

Edit:
Easy - SakuyaB
Karisa - 224,502,990 - C - 0.0% - Replay


Last-minute retaking of the DDC Easy record! It's not as polished as I'd like, though...

Easy - SakuyaB
Karisa - 228,538,830 - C - 0.0% - Replay

That's better. Still some unpolished collections in stage 3, but I think I'm done with this category for now. And DDC trial scoring overall, I guess. Unless I need to defend this record within the next few days...
« Last Edit: August 10, 2013, 01:49:30 AM by Karisa »

Sapz

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Re: 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character
« Reply #95 on: August 11, 2013, 08:14:52 PM »
Updated, and a first post upgrade in advance of the main game's release. Stuff like version numbers and other details will be edited into the post as we get them.

Zengeku: Sure you don't want those scores edited back in?
Let's fight.

Re: 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character
« Reply #96 on: August 11, 2013, 10:35:03 PM »
Zengeku: Sure you don't want those scores edited back in?

Ahh, what the heck. Why not?  :V Put the SakuyaA entries back in again please!  :)

Sapz

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Re: 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character
« Reply #97 on: August 11, 2013, 11:44:08 PM »
Gotcha. Done.
Let's fight.

Re: 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character
« Reply #98 on: August 12, 2013, 05:07:13 AM »
All DDC bombs already do that. Except during spells, where only SakuyaB's does for some reason (the others simply remove the bullets like in other MoF+ games). Bombing nonspells for PIV is a normal part of DDC scoring with any shot type.

Have you had a chance to watch any DDC scoring yet? I know you said you can't run the game at full speed, but I've uploaded a few videos and streamed it a few times.

Yeah I've watched some scoreruns. I never noticed MarisaB's bomb giving PIV lol, thought it was just items. My bad.

It seems people enjoy the scoring style of MarisaB's bomb. But I don't think fun scoring should come at the cost of breaking survival. Ideally a shot-type should be good for both.

Maybe have 2.0 PoCs give bomb parts instead of life parts? You would still PoC the same way probably, you would just get less resources, so it would no longer break survival.

Karisa

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Re: 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character
« Reply #99 on: August 12, 2013, 05:36:40 AM »
I think the life parts from 2.0 collections were a good idea, and not broken for non-MarisaB characters, so I wouldn't support removing them. They encourage survival players to try for some good bonuses in the stage portions for more lives, and they're also what make SakuyaB scoring routes (which are about gathering as many resources as possible to spend bombing for PIV) so interesting.

Shimatora

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Re: 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character
« Reply #100 on: August 12, 2013, 06:59:01 PM »
Have some day 1 scores. Enjoy watching me have no idea what I'm doing.

Easy - MarisaA
S-TORA - 459,426,310 - C - 0.0% - Replay


Easy - SakuyaB
S-TORA - 686,145,640 - C - 0.0% - Replay

Normal - ReimuA
S-TORA - 467,060,360 - C - 0.0% - Replay

About 3 hours of game time so far.
« Last Edit: August 13, 2013, 12:27:44 AM by Shimatora »

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Nyyl

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Re: 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character
« Reply #101 on: August 12, 2013, 07:33:37 PM »
Normal - Sakuya A
Nyyl - 440,352,270 - C - 0.1% - Replay

Third playthrough, first 1cc
Just something for you guys to enjoy beating, eheh :blush:

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Re: 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character
« Reply #102 on: August 12, 2013, 08:17:29 PM »
For shits and giggles, some no-route easy mode

Easy - SakuyaB
Sakurei - 727.649.140 - C - 0.3% - Replay


I dunno how far I can push it without any actual knowledge :<

Easy - SakuyaB
Sakurei - 760.485.320 - C - 0.7% Replay
« Last Edit: August 12, 2013, 09:14:20 PM by Sakurei »

Shimatora

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Re: 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character
« Reply #103 on: August 12, 2013, 09:24:36 PM »
Easy - MarisaA
S-TORA - 565,876,530 - C - 0.0% - Replay


Improvement. 100m bonus for 7/4.
« Last Edit: August 15, 2013, 01:24:37 AM by Shimatora »

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Karisa

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Re: 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character
« Reply #104 on: August 12, 2013, 10:07:13 PM »
Extra - ReimuA
Karisa - 510,111,240 - C - 0.0% - Replay


Fun stage. Not as many captures as I'd like, some mistakes with auto-collecting in the second half of the stage portion, and I still have trouble even bombing the 8th spell in advance, but I think I've played it enough for now. Finished with 6 lives.

This category should reach 700m easily if you capture all spells, finish with max lives, and have a scoring-oriented route in the stage portion, even without any active PIV boosting.
« Last Edit: August 21, 2013, 10:58:13 AM by Karisa »

Re: 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character
« Reply #105 on: August 12, 2013, 10:28:19 PM »
Lunatic - MarisaB
ARF - 1,038,744,290 - C - 0.0% - Replay

Sixth credit that got past stage 3 (sadly I have almost no idea what I'm doing after that point) but capping Kagerou's second and final in a real run is nice, her final is probably her easiest spell actually!

Extra - MarisaB
ARF - 702,829,860 - C - 0.1% - Replay

Holy shit easiest extra ever! I bet that something like 1.2 billion is possible with MariB
« Last Edit: August 13, 2013, 01:49:17 PM by ARF »
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Shimatora

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Re: 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character
« Reply #106 on: August 12, 2013, 11:06:28 PM »
Easy - MarisaB
S-TORA - 594,403,910 - C - 0.0% - Replay


EDIT:

Easy - ReimuA
S-TORA - 600,678,510 - C - 0.0% - Replay

Stage 5, oh my god.
« Last Edit: August 14, 2013, 04:30:03 PM by Shimatora »

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Re: 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character
« Reply #107 on: August 13, 2013, 12:30:40 AM »
Normal - SakuyaA
L3PiK - 517,523,410 - C - 0.0% - Replay

Karisa

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Re: 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character
« Reply #108 on: August 13, 2013, 12:41:24 AM »
Easy - SakuyaB
Karisa - 853,517,930 - C - 0.0% - Replay


Test run to unlock stage practice. I'm posting it because it's higher than any other score I've seen in this category, even though I didn't have any practice with the last 3 stages (the reason it's high is probably due to all the PIV I gain in the first 3).
« Last Edit: August 13, 2013, 10:25:04 AM by Karisa »

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Re: 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character
« Reply #109 on: August 13, 2013, 12:43:14 AM »
Seeing everyone's scores I don't wanna upload mine anyone.

Shimatora

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Re: 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character
« Reply #110 on: August 13, 2013, 12:52:19 AM »
Seeing everyone's scores I don't wanna upload mine anyone.

Just post what you have! It's all fun in the end.

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Re: 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character
« Reply #111 on: August 13, 2013, 01:35:51 AM »
Eh, ok.

Normal - ReimuA
Ultima - 328,444,790 - C - 0.1%

Karisa

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Re: 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character
« Reply #112 on: August 13, 2013, 03:03:52 AM »
Easy - SakuyaB
Karisa - 899,756,330 - C - 0.0% - Replay


Various mistakes around stage 5 to early stage 6, but I recovered for the end. 1 billion may be farther away than I thought, though.

Also the large fairies in stage 2 now only drop 8 items each instead of 10, making it harder to collect bomb parts there (and preventing the earlier stage 2 route from working)...

Easy - ReimuA
Karisa - 656,396,790 - C - 0.0% - Replay


Another test run. I'm not sure where it's useful to bomb for PIV yet. I did another attempt using significantly more bombs on nonspells, but finished with only 4000 PIV higher, and scored 70m lower.

Easy - SakuyaB
Karisa - 909,050,300 - C - 0.0% - Replay


This run was going nicely, until I got clipped on the survival. Then I somehow managed to get cornered on the spell after that (which I'd never failed on Easy before). So that's 45m lost right there.

There was also one part in stage 5 where I tried to bomb for items when I was out of bombs. It seems the missed auto-collect cost around 19m, judging from my previous run (which gained 24m there instead of 5m).

I guess that means this route is worth at least 973m...

Easy - SakuyaB
Karisa - 917,995,730 - C - 0.0% - Replay


This run had some weird mistakes because it's past midnight and I should be getting some sleep. I think the previous run was better overall. I captured the survival here, though.
« Last Edit: August 18, 2013, 07:38:16 AM by Karisa »

Re: 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character
« Reply #113 on: August 13, 2013, 11:07:50 AM »
Lunatic - MarisaB
ARF - 1,142,310,710 - C - 0.0% - Replay

Failed many (easy) spells, but got a bit higher PIV at least.

Extra - MarisaB
ARF - 875,139,090 - C - 0.2% - Replay

Still a ton of failed cards and stuff, but I discovered that you can supergraze some of Raiko's nonspells trying to suicide on her. Pretty cool, almost certainly useful for other shot types.
« Last Edit: August 14, 2013, 07:45:10 PM by ARF »
"you never know, you may have the best strats in the world" - Zil

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Re: 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character
« Reply #114 on: August 13, 2013, 10:28:32 PM »
Extra - SakuyaA
L3PiK - 293,718,990 - C - 0.0% - Replay

Extra - SakuyaA
L3PiK - 343,555,220 - C - 0.0% - Replay
« Last Edit: August 13, 2013, 11:11:29 PM by L3PiK »

Karisa

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Re: 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character
« Reply #115 on: August 14, 2013, 10:55:16 AM »
Easy - SakuyaB
Karisa - 991,720,050 - C - 0.0% - Replay


I'm still working on getting a run that includes all three of 3123's 2.0s in the first 2 stages. In the meantime, here's a run that unexpectedly reached nearly 1 billion. I'm sure I can score higher than 3123 if I can collect 6 lives for Sekibanki and not make any major mistakes.

---

So I've heard that replays.gensokyo.org actually already supports DDC replays, if you upload them as TD replays instead. Make sure to rename the replay to start with th14 if you download any replays uploaded this way.

Might as well post some first attempts at various Easy categories while I'm saying this. It'll help fill out the scoring table at least. (And possibly encourage people to try scoring higher than them? It should only take a little practice, since these runs had no practice outside of playing the trial earlier.)

Easy - MarisaA
Karisa - 607,337,080 - C - 0.0% - Replay


Easy - SakuyaA
Karisa - 654,001,590 - C - 0.0% - Replay
« Last Edit: August 21, 2013, 10:57:31 AM by Karisa »

Zil

Re: 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character
« Reply #116 on: August 14, 2013, 04:24:50 PM »
So I've heard that replays.gensokyo.org actually already supports DDC replays, if you upload them as TD replays instead. Make sure to rename the replay to start with th14 if you download any replays uploaded this way.
This seems like something that could become annoying sometime down the road, since anyone searching for TD runs on the uploader will get a bunch of DDC runs as well. (i.e. if you search for the highest scoring easy run, your SakuyaB score comes up at the top.)

Shimatora

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Re: 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character
« Reply #117 on: August 14, 2013, 04:27:47 PM »
Easy - MarisaB
S-TORA - 618,000,370 - C - 0.09% - Replay Screenshot


Yay, over 600m with MariB. Tried out a few bomb tricks here and there, most of the stage bombs were a failure really, apart from Stage 1. w
« Last Edit: August 19, 2013, 08:32:21 PM by Shimatora »

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Re: 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character
« Reply #118 on: August 14, 2013, 07:47:54 PM »
Extra - MarisaB
ARF - 968,903,880 - C - 0.1% - Replay

8/1 finish... some of those spell fails were pretty awful. I guess I should use spell practice before trying again. At least this confirms that way over 1 billion is achievable.
"you never know, you may have the best strats in the world" - Zil

Immortal Momiji!

Seppo Hovi

Re: 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character
« Reply #119 on: August 14, 2013, 09:08:47 PM »
I should be playing SA or IN. Whatever.

-

Easy - ReimuB
Seppo Hovi - 628,112,670 - C - 0.06% - Replay

Mistakes everywhere with the collection, bad PiV, horrendous ending resources. Failed one spell in stage 5 (first boss card), so I guess I'll have to come back to it. Maybe BIT will dance with me again.

-

Normal - ReimuB
Seppo Hovi - 655,552,900 - C - 0.14% - Replay

First 1cc (on Normal). Failed every attack I consistently capture on Lunatic.

-

I'm not seeing the full appeal of this game, or it's not sticking with me. I could either do some survival challenges or just drop it in entirety and go play something else. Not mahjong, though.