Rune guardians 5 - Crawlers 0 GAME OVER

[Maid Xan~]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=67oM4CZEhqg

I sacrifice 4chan to Nemelex Xobeh.

[Stuffman]

It looks like it would hinder him severely whether he's Town or Scum.  Outing yourself as some unorthodox power role is generally only smart if you intend to burn your ability before the Scum have a chance to kill you.  It's bad play either way.  A green Townie given a weird power role might try a poorly thought out gambit, but so might a green Scum.  The latter seems more likely to me.

Bad play for my personal survival yes, bad play for town no. Obviously I'm going to be a target for scum now. In the event that I get lynched, I'll flip and you'll know that I was telling the truth and to turn pressure on the ones who pushed on me hardest. Or if they just choose to whack me, I'm a prime target for town doctors/watchers/whatever which will certainly provide useful intel. Or they could choose to just let me go and my role will get to do its thing (and, like pretty much any role, I think it'll be more useful the farther into the game I make it). So no matter what, I think town will benefit from my actions in some way.

I was also intending to do something controversial so we could get out of the random voting stage and actually have a somewhat productive day 1.

More stuff could stand to be said and heard today so I support ##Extension

[WHMZakeri]

First things First: where is there any indication that praying is pro-town? Where is there any indication that Scum can't or won't benefit from these things just as much, if not more so than town? The God's are given that their follow achieving their win condition is their own win condition - no where does it state that gods are inherently pro-town. Additionally, everyone here is the character that they signed up as, Rune Guardian or not, so it's possible everyone has a god. That said:

But I think the praying thing looks more town because scum wouldn't usually rush so readily into something that can potentially hurt them.

My opinion conflicts with this - I think Scum would be just as likely to make the jump, since they can equally benefit from this as we can.

My reasons for not liking Xan, while not in quantity, I feel are in quality. I'll start by asking him to share his opinions on others, rather than youtube videos or worries about my vote on him. Especially since Rou's comment on Xan had him saying his only concern was if he should worry about my vote or not.

My reasons for not liking Stuffman are not actually reasons for voting him.

Onto the self-voters ... Neitz is being reactionary to the Roukanken, I don't like the suggestion that we should ignore his self-vote. I will say, it does look like he intended it to be a joke, but seriously, it's not a funny joke. Not sure what I feel on Neitz, though, so I'd like to see more pressing on the subject.

As for Wrathie, he creeps me out much more since he voted himself to L-2 and then kept shouting just as planned. If Neitz's joke vote was an inappropriate dead baby joke, Wrathie's was digging up Grandpa's corpse and stringing it up to drop and let hang in front of his widow. I agree with Rou, Wrathie does seem like he's trying to play off of the honorary scum meta. Plus, I don't like how several people, like Neitz and Stuffman and Rou all said they weren't willing to vote Wrathie at the time. Granted, most of this was early, so I'd like to ask if everyone still feels it's too early to vote him?

I'm not liking Kiro so far either. His recent posts seem to be "tl;dr: unvote me, plz" Null tell on Mass pray opinion, but his asking Stuffman to clear up his role sounds a little like scum trying to figure out if they should kill him or not. His 66 give me second thoughts though.

Not really an Edit: After reading Kiro's post in full, I understand basically where he's coming from. I don't really see Kiro as scum with what I've seen so far.

Vote stands for now.

##Za Warudo toki wo tomare

[FinnKaenbyou]

Zak: I feel that there are several potential cases available right now, and pressing for the Wrathie lynch too hard means those cases will be disregarded.

Xan still hasn't given opinions on anyone other than Zak, Wrathie is just defending himself more, and Stuffman is simply defending his play. Is it that hard to give opinions on more than one player? >_>

[Serp]

Bad play for my personal survival yes, bad play for town no. Obviously I'm going to be a target for scum now. In the event that I get lynched, I'll flip and you'll know that I was telling the truth and to turn pressure on the ones who pushed on me hardest. Or if they just choose to whack me, I'm a prime target for town doctors/watchers/whatever which will certainly provide useful intel. Or they could choose to just let me go and my role will get to do its thing (and, like pretty much any role, I think it'll be more useful the farther into the game I make it). So no matter what, I think town will benefit from my actions in some way.

So you acknowledge that your role would be more useful further into the game, but also acknowledge that your actions are bad for your survival.  How can you then say that you're helping the Town by outing yourself so early?

I was also intending to do something controversial so we could get out of the random voting stage and actually have a somewhat productive day 1.

You're making a vague roleclaim in the early game, throwing a red herring out there and sowing chaos and confusion.  You're trying to WIFOM the scum, but instead you're WIFOMing any protective roles and WIFOMing the Town looking for a lynch.  This is not productive.

[Stuffman]

So you acknowledge that your role would be more useful further into the game, but also acknowledge that your actions are bad for your survival.  How can you then say that you're helping the Town by outing yourself so early?

I can do more for town other than just waiting for my role to do its thing. Just having a role gives me a bit of special leverage, and I'm using it to create a sort of contingency. Either I die and useful intel arises from it, or I live and my role helps the town. The fact that I'm not entirely sure how my role activates gives me incentive to take a risk with it since I'm not sure I can rely on it.

You're making a vague roleclaim in the early game, throwing a red herring out there and sowing chaos and confusion.  You're trying to WIFOM the scum, but instead you're WIFOMing any protective roles and WIFOMing the Town looking for a lynch.  This is not productive.

Yeah it's kind of a shitstorm right now, but when the dust settles (either by me dying or my role working) everything should become clear, and since I'm doing this in very early game everyone will have plenty of time to analyze it.

[Stuffman]

Oh also, I would be perfectly happy with a wrathie lynch as he is either oblivious or insane and lynching him should probably be done at some point, I just don't want to end the day yet.

Either that or I would hit someone lurky like Edible, since I don't really feel like I have a case on anyone active right now.

##Vote wrathie again just to have my vote somewhere I suppose.

[Affinity]

DLevel 5 Vote Count

wrathie (2): Edible, Stuffman, wrathie, Stuffman
Nietz (1): Nietz, Kiro
Roukanken (1): Xan, Edible
Stuffman (1): Serpentarius
Kiro (2): Roukanken, Nietz
Xan (1): Zakeri
Zakeri (0): Xan

Not voting: wrathie
With 9 players remaning, it takes 5 to lynch.

4 more sacrifices needed for an extention.  Around 23 hours remain.

[UncertainJakutten]

Apparently my votes don't count. I think this game should die.

[Maid Xan~]

My reasons for not liking Xan, while not in quantity, I feel are in quality. I'll start by asking him to share his opinions on others, rather than youtube videos or worries about my vote on him.

Gah, that's not I get for not looking carefully at what I'm posting. I was trying to copy Rou's extension request and I forgot to stop holding the mouse button, so it didn't end up on my clipboard.

[Nietz]

I will say, it does look like he intended it to be a joke, but seriously, it's not a funny joke.

I would say - and in fact I did - that it takes a deliberate effort not to see it as a joke. And if you worry so much about quality of jokes you might as well join FAV's club.

As for wrathie, is not a question voting him early or not, I don't think his silliness at the beginning of the games is a reason to vote him at all. But as I already said, his continuous lack of contribution is becoming a reason. And the same applies to Xan, as you mentioned.

@Xan: Since you admit to it, then maybe you should actually contribute as well.

Edible has been inactive rather than lurking, but I'm still waiting to hear from him. Which reminds me:

##Sacrifice goat to ask for extension.

[Maid Xan~]

##EXTENSION PLZ!

[Kiro]

Nietz: Yea, I never played Crawl. However, I thought praying in Crawl Mafia would be a good idea. The assumption that I made about Rune Guardians was that their character is just a fakeclaim so praying would never have any effect on them since they are monsters and godless. But now, I realize that it doesn't have to be that way so it was a rash thing to suggest. Otherwise, there isn't anything else for me to add right now.

wrathie: Yea, let's lynch a person. But help us out by voting. It's disappointing to see you ask for the Extension, but not have a Vote at the same time. You're asking for more time, but part of the reason it's probably being granted is because of your indecisiveness.

Zakeri: Care to elaborate on your reasons for not liking Stuffman even if it's not vote worthy? You were explicit in saying that early on, but you kinda brushed it off just now. Stuffman even asked you after that post what you had against him.

I think Serpentarius was pretty clear on his issue for not liking Stuffman, but at the same time, I'm not seeing Scum in a game this small so willing to draw attention to themselves like faking a roleclaim or even outing their own Scum roleclaim because we would expect him to die eventually. Serp's had stuff to say about wrathie and me, but that's it. Is that your scum list order at the moment?

Xan has been mentioned already and it's active lurking on a similar level to wrathie.

##Extension for Edible (although I see he was on sometime today but didn't even give an update if he was going to be busy today as well) and time to analyze wrathie's eventual vote. Interested to see what their views are now.

[Edible]

I was out all day yesterday and today.  Tried to keep up with the game via cellphone, but I'll need to fully read through everything.  My impressions upon my occasional checkups were "man, I wish we had another multilynch for Day 1".

Extensions are for suckers.

Should have a non-"I'm here" post soon.

[Serp]

Yeah it's kind of a shitstorm right now, but when the dust settles (either by me dying or my role working) everything should become clear, and since I'm doing this in very early game everyone will have plenty of time to analyze it.

As of this moment, the former seems more likely than the latter.  I don't know what your role entails, but if it's at all helpful to use in the early game, and it's at all possible to do so, I think you ought to consider using it before the scum have a chance to kill you.

I think Serpentarius was pretty clear on his issue for not liking Stuffman, but at the same time, I'm not seeing Scum in a game this small so willing to draw attention to themselves like faking a roleclaim or even outing their own Scum roleclaim because we would expect him to die eventually. Serp's had stuff to say about wrathie and me, but that's it. Is that your scum list order at the moment?

Stuffman is starting to look less like bad Scum and more like bad Town, so wrathie tops my list.  I'm willing to switch to him whenever.  Wanting more content from Xan and Edible.  You're looking alright, and no one else looks especially suspicious to me right now.

My impressions upon my occasional checkups were "man, I wish we had another multilynch for Day 1".

I briefly had this reaction as well.

[Ionasal kkll Solciel]

My impressions upon my occasional checkups were "man, I wish we had another multilynch for Day 1".

Try praying for it.*

*Note: Taiyou does not take responsibility for any failures or lynches caused by said prayer.  Use with caution and never without a god's blessing.  Side effects include being lynched, headaches, and blinking syndrome.

[Pesco]

Sacrifice a Rune or Orb of Zot now and get a FREE Mystery Deck from Nemelex Xobeh!!

1 more Sacrifice required. I wonder if there's any time left?

[Affinity]

13 hours left.

[Edible]

Someone's clock is off.

Your surroundings suddenly seem different

[Affinity]

Oh?  Alright, 11 then.

[Edible]

Oh boy, has the game become guess-the-game-mechanic?

You feel hungry

[Serp]

Well, this is going nowhere fast.

##Request Extension

[Serp]

Also:

##Unvote
##Vote: wrathie

As I've explained, I find wrathie more scummy than Stuffman, so no need to keep my vote on Stuffman as the deadline approaches.

[Pesco]

Deadline has been removed, but what about the dangers?

[FinnKaenbyou]

Edible: "I haven't had the chance to read anything yet, but I don't want an extension to give myself time to catch up." T_T

Nietz, you never got around to answering my question. If we don't make a case out of joke votes we'll never make it out of the RVS, and even if we do we'll obviously have nothing to build a case on. The first case is mainly to test people's reactions rather than to ascertain guilt.
And the problem with self-voting is that pretty much everyone here has heard of Fong's Gambit. If we know a reason for a vote NOT to be a joke, it's paranoid (but possibly safer) to assume it isn't. What would you have done if other people voted you on top of your self-vote, for example?

Xan's 'Hey, I'm not producing' post makes me want to start swinging this axe in his general direction.

Fixed. You're a slasher, not smasher.

[WRATHIE_Beatrice]

Im back from work now and thank you for not quick lynching me.

Wrathie feels like he's exploiting his 'Useless Townie' meta. Don't like it, to be honest.

I think the current suspicion on Wrathie involves a little more than the selfvote - the whole 'oh noes I'm gonna get lynched' thing is more than a little meh.

That's because at the start of the game, the joke phase is literally all we have to go on. If we ignore people doing strange things then how are we supposed to find suspects?

I lol'd.

Seriously, if you want legitimate, perfect scumtells D1 then you're kinda screwed. Wrathie making mistakes and getting lynched is one thing - blatantly screaming about how he's going to get lynched is another thing entirely.
As for his response to Stuffman - I'm not sure why praying makes him Town. Stuff claimed that praying could trigger his power and waste it. What if Wrathie wanted to try and waste Stuff's power? It's a WIFOM at best, most likely.
Mainly your continued 'OH LOL I'M OBVSCUM' act. It's unnecessary, and it feels like you're trying to give yourself a free pass for being honorary scum.
Town!Wrathie, from what I've seen, makes the mistakes and then admits to them, not the other way around.

I agree with you, Rou. My apologies for abusing my honorary Scum Meta and I did apologize for that, if that was not obvious enough and that was still during the Jokevoting period.. any comments on my other actions beside not committing to a serious opinion about anyone...

My posts are targeted at the game mechanics... I apologize if I have not given an opinion about anyone as I JUST came back. After my last posts on requesting an extension I have commented on Kiro and Nietz, which is the only case I feel worth touching at that point of time.

All i see is you trying to get me to talk or just trying to make me make mistakes, which i tend to when i am pressured. Will this answer satisfy you? I don't like your stand thou, Rou... you're just focusing solely on me, what about the rest of the guys playing??

@Kiro:
Yes, I do think that being politically correct about joke votes can be a bad thing, and I already explained why. It makes the accuser look like they're following a pro-town policy, without actually leading anywhere.
Claiming that a self-vote on the RVS creates a "fake lead" makes no sense, only a total newbie at Mafia wouldn't recognize a joke vote for what it is. If you're scum, however, you do have a reason to follow a purported fake lead and waste time without compromising yourself with a serious accusation.

Just quoting this as why i dislike Rou and let's face it, the activity picked up after i left for work... if there is nothing to be commented on, don't press me for it

A good indicative of an useful tell is when someone acts in a significantly different fashion than usual, for someone who usually acts silly to act a little sillier is hardly anything other than null.
Segueing into my thoughts on wrathie, his self-vote to L-2 is the kind of thing I would expect him to do. On the other hand, the fact that he has made a lot of posts with little to no usefulness and hasn't seriously commented in a single player so far is raising my suspicion levels of him. This is not only a scummy attitude in itself, but also the opposite of what he usually does (spewing crack theories about who is scum).

Uh.. that's what i did on the last game Nietz and the last last game... the crackpot theory was only for one game... ur view on me is outdated

Hey now, asking for one volunteer to pray and asking for everyone to pray are two totally different things. We can presume that wrathie and Xan either don't have roles or they have roles that they know aren't linked to praying.

The whole reason I did it was to NOT trigger any roles, like my own, unnecessarily, which is the opposite of what a massprayclaimwhatever would do, since if mine is triggered by praying others might be too.

Opinion on Kiro/Nietz/Rou remains same as before. Seeya all tonight.

Just to put the matter to rest, I am putting trust on Stuff's claim that he is a townie power role... Even so, he seems to be contradicting himself by wanting not to trigger any role.. Do you mean not to trigger your role? Really want Stuff to trigger it now..

and I don't like how he is willing to risk revealing himself as a power townie role and yet is not willing to use his ability. Use your ability before you take one for the team, Stuff.

and thank you for the vote, my view is that you're just trying to get a free pass by claiming as a Townie power role..

##Vote: Stuffman
If you are a power role, too bad... the way you are avoiding the question and dodging behind: I don't know how to use it is really scummy.

wrathie: Yea, let's lynch a person. But help us out by voting. It's disappointing to see you ask for the Extension, but not have a Vote at the same time. You're asking for more time, but part of the reason it's probably being granted is because of your indecisiveness.

Prior to me leaving for work there is nothing much to comment on that i can tell was really scummy

My opinion to both of you are that Kiro is a little too defensive and Nietz is jumping to conclusion and is town vs town.

I do not think that Kiro was trying to hard to scum hunt, he is just addressing what cases we have on hand..


Xan and Edible: Exists more, now.
I like Zak's explanation but his case on Xan is a bit weak.. still he is lurking badly and Edible get a free pass from him stating that he will be busy.


Thank you all for ignoring my post that i'll be WORKING and requesting a response when it would be impossible for me to reply >_<


@Serp: Why is stuffman more bad townie...? I do not think his reply is sufficient enough to cover his awkward claim for prayer.

[Stuffman]

Just to reiterate: I'm just guessing that praying might activate my power. I don't actually know.

Just to put the matter to rest, I am putting trust on Stuff's claim that he is a townie power role... Even so, he seems to be contradicting himself by wanting not to trigger any role.. Do you mean not to trigger your role? Really want Stuff to trigger it now..

What I said was that I didn't want anyone to trigger their roles UNNECESSARILY. Again, if in fact my role is triggered by praying, then it is reasonable to presume that others are too, so making everyone pray might make someone waste their role. Everyone has already agreed that a masspray was a bad idea.

If you are a power role, too bad... the way you are avoiding the question and dodging behind: I don't know how to use it is really scummy.

What question? And anyway, I realize that in a normal game my claim would be absurd, but come on, it's a pesco game. We already have one completely unexplained game mechanic. I don't think a role whose activation terms are not made clear is that far outside the realm of possibility.

[FinnKaenbyou]

All i see is you trying to get me to talk or just trying to make me make mistakes, which i tend to when i am pressured. Will this answer satisfy you?

I don't understand what you're trying to say with this. "Yes, I admit that I did abuse my meta and act stupid, but I still think you're suspicious for it'?

I don't like your stand thou, Rou... you're just focusing solely on me, what about the rest of the guys playing??

Total misrep. I've said plenty about other people if you'd bother to read my damn posts.

Uh.. that's what i did on the last game Nietz and the last last game...

So that immediately makes not contributing and posting anything of use okay? Why do you think you've been such a big target for votes in all your other recent games?

Just to put the matter to rest, I am putting trust on Stuff's claim that he is a townie power role...

##Vote: Stuffman
If you are a power role, too bad...

*facepalm*
Remember what happened last game with Affinity? He claimed a role, and everyone had to convince me to let him live for another day because his claimed actions would be an easy way to test who he was. Thanks to this we managed to avoid lynching the tracker.

Extra bonus points for saying 'Zak's case on Xan is weak' with no further explanation. And who exactly is giving Edible a free pass?

In short, Wrathie is really not helping Town out. His apologising for making mistakes and then getting mad at me for pointing them out also irks me. Definitely no objections to seeing him lynched today.

Fixed. You're a slasher, not smasher.

But maces are so righteous ;_;

[Pesco]

DLevel 6 Vote Count

wrathie (3): Edible, Stuffman, wrathie, Stuffman, Serpentarius
Nietz (1): Nietz, Kiro
Roukanken (1): Xan, Edible
Stuffman (1): Serpentarius, Wrathie
Kiro (2): Roukanken, Nietz
Xan (1): Zakeri
Zakeri (0): Xan

Not voting:
With 9 players remaning, it takes 5 to lynch. Wrathie at L-2.
Role PMs attached for Affinity.

[Edible]

I want an explanation of why Affinity said there were 23 hours left last night at around 10 EST.

@Rou: That's why I didn't think an extension was necessary.

@wrathie: ...

Self-vote!  Murky statement!  Praying to UK!  Murky statement part two!  Useless statement!  Backpedal on an... RVS vote?  Conflicting explanation on backpedal vote!  IIoA!  IIoA!  IIoA! (fhtagn)  A double feature: Apologies Galore and Makes Statements Without Explaining!

I just linked every single one of wrathie's posts in this topic except for one (in which wrathie asked for an extension).  All of them are either outright scummy or somewhat disturbing.  I don't even need to use policy to endorse wrathie's lynch today.