Author Topic: RosenKreuzStilette Mafia - Game Over  (Read 68633 times)

Usually Dead

Re: RosenKreuzStilette Mafia - Day 1
« Reply #120 on: January 15, 2010, 10:29:14 PM »
UK: You're harkening back to what I said before. You see yourself as too professional to allow any degree of anger or frustration at me, be it inside this game or outside it, to sway your choice. Your pride wouldn't allow it.

Thus your harsh attacks against a newbie are the epitome of scummy behavior. My vote against you remains.

UncertainJakutten

  • Then you should get out of the way when I tell you
  • Do you not trust my aim?
Re: RosenKreuzStilette Mafia - Day 1
« Reply #121 on: January 15, 2010, 10:31:14 PM »
UK: You're harkening back to what I said before. You see yourself as too professional to allow any degree of anger or frustration at me, be it inside this game or outside it, to sway your choice. Your pride wouldn't allow it.

Thus your harsh attacks against a newbie are the epitome of scummy behavior. My vote against you remains.

Um...your point? It still hasn't been made?

You've behaved scummily. And are you seriously trying to claim that I'm being too harsh on a newbie? That you should be protected?

Despite claiming credit for what would be considered a moderately advanced gambit? You can't have it both ways.


Usually Dead

Re: RosenKreuzStilette Mafia - Day 1
« Reply #122 on: January 15, 2010, 10:33:47 PM »
I never claimed credit for anything. Everyone assumed it.

And no, I'm not trying to say that I should be protected. I'm saying that you've spewed too much vitriol at me and in the wrong context to be explained by emotion alone. And my point being than you're working way too hard to get the spotlight off yourself.

Scum.

Edible

  • One part the F?hrer, one part the Pope
  • *
  • It's the inevitable return, baby
Re: RosenKreuzStilette Mafia - Day 1
« Reply #123 on: January 15, 2010, 10:35:18 PM »
UD's just-as-planned attitude towards UK reeks of backpedaling, and the conflicting duality of his arguments make him look more panicky than he is pretending.

In short, either utterly confused newbie or newbscum.  I'm leaning towards the latter.

##unvote pesco
##vote Usually Dead

Usually Dead

Re: RosenKreuzStilette Mafia - Day 1
« Reply #124 on: January 15, 2010, 10:36:56 PM »
What do I have to backpedal? I never claimed to be anything other than inexperienced.

UncertainJakutten

  • Then you should get out of the way when I tell you
  • Do you not trust my aim?
Re: RosenKreuzStilette Mafia - Day 1
« Reply #125 on: January 15, 2010, 10:37:39 PM »
I...am? I'm sorry, I don't understand your case at all?

Let me try to break down your case in a way I understand it.

-I attacked you too much, despite you spending, oh, every post you've made thus far attacking me? Supposedly this attacking is scummy...how? I'm missing a step...

-I'm working way too hard to get the spotlight off myself...I...am? Can you please provide evidence for this? Further, can you provide evidence why this is scummy when perhaps I want people to focus on finding scum rather than walking in circles around me? And pretty much you are the only person I'm asking to look outside of me for at least two posts?



UncertainJakutten

  • Then you should get out of the way when I tell you
  • Do you not trust my aim?
Re: RosenKreuzStilette Mafia - Day 1
« Reply #126 on: January 15, 2010, 10:39:02 PM »
What do I have to backpedal? I never claimed to be anything other than inexperienced.

Since I brought it up first, though without that word, I'll be glad to show you.

From this:

Zakeri: Thank you. My ego really does love how you keep defending me, but it's not for your own good.

It seems as though you recognize the genuine intentions of my newness and are trying to garner my favor because of that. It almost appears as though you'd be trying to gain an ally or two, but the utter suspicion this game breeds wouldn't allow for that.

Don't worry though. I won't switch my vote to you just yet. My vanity forbids it, for the time being.

To this:

You know what? I've thought about this a bit, and it's just too much to bear.

I refuse to believe that UK's attacks on me were motivated by any degree of personal anger, even if that anger is inspired by my own inexperience. She thinks of herself as too professional for that.

UK, my first vote against you was just bullshit, just trying to stir the waters and get scum to expose itself. Much to my surprise, it worked.

##Unvote
##Vote UncertainKitten



Re: RosenKreuzStilette Mafia - Day 1
« Reply #127 on: January 15, 2010, 10:39:49 PM »
I can now? No, actually, at this point I think both of you are the same alignment. You still might be town if UD flips scum, and almost certainly are if UD flips town (which I doubt). I don't plan to use this as my only point in a case against you, should I need one. I'm merely committing to seeing you two as relatively tied together, and at this point would assume you were scum if UD were revealed as scum now.
This is the sort of stuff I like seeing as town.
Very well, I'll submit to scrutiny provided you don't go back on these words.

UD and UK's latest argument is hard to make sense of, partially due to some of the things UD saying resulting in a syntax error in my skull.

Usually Dead

Re: RosenKreuzStilette Mafia - Day 1
« Reply #128 on: January 15, 2010, 10:40:22 PM »
I'm sorry that you don't understand, UK. I can't be bothered to reword it over and over.

I admitted that my first vote against you was random. Your response to that is what exposed you as scum.

And why should I look elsewhere for now? You and I are the two most prominent people posting so far. I will (and I have) paid attention when it's been pertinent.

Usually Dead

Re: RosenKreuzStilette Mafia - Day 1
« Reply #129 on: January 15, 2010, 10:41:58 PM »
Also, UK. Those two things of mine you quoted. How are they contradictory?

I ask that with great hesitation. I'm exactly one centimeter from just ignoring you for the rest of this first day.

UncertainJakutten

  • Then you should get out of the way when I tell you
  • Do you not trust my aim?
Re: RosenKreuzStilette Mafia - Day 1
« Reply #130 on: January 15, 2010, 10:44:07 PM »
I'm sorry that you don't understand, UK. I can't be bothered to reword it over and over.

I admitted that my first vote against you was random. Your response to that is what exposed you as scum.

And why should I look elsewhere for now? You and I are the two most prominent people posting so far. I will (and I have) paid attention when it's been pertinent.

Thanks for not answering my points. I suppose it's hard to justify a case that doesn't exist.

And good. Hopefully you'll prove it as the game goes on. Since so far I see "tunnel on UK, tunnel on UK, pretend it went just as planned, tunnel on UK"

Also, UK. Those two things of mine you quoted. How are they contradictory?

I ask that with great hesitation. I'm exactly one centimeter from just ignoring you for the rest of this first day.

Must be nice. You can't produce your case so you'll ignore the person you're attacking. Please note that all the times I said I'd ignore you was related to anything you said that wasn't game relevant ^-^. How is this at all a pro-town attitude.

Anyway, basically you are saying that Zak gives you to much credit. Then you claim "Just as planned" in the next post.


Re: RosenKreuzStilette Mafia - Day 1
« Reply #131 on: January 15, 2010, 10:47:20 PM »
Since I brought it up first, though without that word, I'll be glad to show you.

From this:

To this:
Could you explain this condescendingly? All I see is UD going from being paranoid of my "Defending" to using my understanding of the situation as grounds to form an attack on you.

Edit: Got it:
Quote
Anyway, basically you are saying that Zak gives you to much credit. Then you claim "Just as planned" in the next post.
You're basically putting words into UD's mouth. I don't see where the first quoted post says that it wasn't all part of the plan, nor does the second post says it was all part of the plan, but I won't hold it against you since I can see how one would think both were implied.

Edible

  • One part the F?hrer, one part the Pope
  • *
  • It's the inevitable return, baby
Re: RosenKreuzStilette Mafia - Day 1
« Reply #132 on: January 15, 2010, 10:47:39 PM »
What do I have to backpedal? I never claimed to be anything other than inexperienced.

No your argument is invalid because, even viewed in the worst possible light, nothing I've done here portrays a "basic" misunderstanding of the game. Rather, a moderate-to-advanced understanding.

Next time you do poorly at something I'm good at, just because you've never been exposed to it before, I'm going to rub salt in it so hard.

Even ignoring the fact that your high opinion of yourself is ill-conceived (adhom attacks are among the worst offenses a mafia player can commit, new or otherwise), you have literally gone from "I am a new player ^_^" to "Ho HO, I am Mafia Superman!" back to "Nope, definitely a newbie ^_^" over the course of... what, two hours?

Usually Dead

Re: RosenKreuzStilette Mafia - Day 1
« Reply #133 on: January 15, 2010, 10:49:25 PM »
UK: I'm.... kind of sick of you twisting my words to mean things they don't mean. This is too much like our IRC arguments. >_>

I'm done for the rest of this in-game Day. (Part of me thinks it'll be a blessing if I get lynched or killed. Arguing with you is entirely like trying to describe the finer philosophical points of C.S. Lewis's writings to a cinder block.)

Carthrat

  • HITLER OF LURKERS
  • MEIN MAIDENKAMPF
Re: RosenKreuzStilette Mafia - Day 1
« Reply #134 on: January 15, 2010, 10:51:50 PM »
I think UD's flirting with UK. At the very least he's definitely provoking her. Meant nothing until his apparently more-serious vote for UK, who I, er, have not had issue with, personally.

UD isn't giving me newbie vibes, btw, and characterizing himself as one earlier is a pretty blatant sympathy ploy; one people shouldn't do even if it's true. If you're acting competent and you're using what originally appeared to be a sensible strategy, you just lost the usual newbie grace I give out. Doubly so if you call attention to that yourself. And "I can't BELIEVE you're attacking me!!! omgus!" rankles *hard*. ##Vote: UD

Chaore is not apparently standing for anything at all except for not doing things. Kindly revise your attitude.

Kanako Yasaka

Re: RosenKreuzStilette Mafia - Day 1
« Reply #135 on: January 15, 2010, 11:04:37 PM »
What the fuck there are 5 pages already? Oh jesus. *reads*

UncertainJakutten

  • Then you should get out of the way when I tell you
  • Do you not trust my aim?
Re: RosenKreuzStilette Mafia - Day 1
« Reply #136 on: January 15, 2010, 11:06:19 PM »
UK: I'm.... kind of sick of you twisting my words to mean things they don't mean. This is too much like our IRC arguments. >_>

I'm done for the rest of this in-game Day. (Part of me thinks it'll be a blessing if I get lynched or killed. Arguing with you is entirely like trying to describe the finer philosophical points of C.S. Lewis's writings to a cinder block.)

Then say what you mean.
And answer my points
And don't give up since that just reads as AtE.
Especially when that AtE has ad hom thrown in.
So, would you like to actually answer my points or step away and hope we don't lynch you because you are so obviously the woobie

Honestly, for someone who was attacking me with such...oh...what was the word...virtrol! That's it!, you sure don't seem to be able to take it well.

Quote
You're basically putting words into UD's mouth. I don't see where the first quoted post says that it wasn't all part of the plan, nor does the second post says it was all part of the plan, but I won't hold it against you since I can see how one would think both were implied.

The second post definitely does. The "and it worked" shows that he apparently put some thought behind his action. The first post is debateable, sure. Edible does bring up the point far better, I think.


Re: RosenKreuzStilette Mafia - Day 1
« Reply #137 on: January 15, 2010, 11:16:39 PM »
I'm done for the rest of this in-game Day.

No you're not. :V
- Everyone must post at least once every 24 hours, standard modkill warning system applied, inactivity modkills will flip at end of day
- Days 1-3 will last 48 hours

Either way, I hate feeling like I might be bandwagoning, but out of the people particularly active yet (yes yes, I'm guilty too), UD is really the only one who jumps out. Ad hominem all over the place - well, only at UK but all over the posts - admitting to deliberately sowing confusion, I'm not even really seeing any attempts to use logic and scumhunt afterwards even if the initial confusion is only meant to stir the waters.

I do think the Pesco-Chaore exchange on page 2 feels like misrep of Chaore on Pesco's part, but as Zak's been hinting on later pages I don't think Chaore's totally in the clear either. I think it might be a little too soon to draw conclusions either way.

Zak seems alright for the time being, at the very minimum there's an appearance of honest scumhunting.

I think I need to see interaction with others besides UD before I draw much conclusion either way on UK.

For now (I'd at least like to vote something other than the jokevote now that we've moved onto serious discussion):
##Unvote
##Vote: UsuallyDead

Sodium

  • pew pew lasers
Re: RosenKreuzStilette Mafia - Day 1
« Reply #138 on: January 15, 2010, 11:21:59 PM »
Okay, I was writing a long(er) post, but with the constant ninjas, it was going no where. So I restarted it.

UD: Dumb Town, and receives the badge of "I like stupid gambits"(think Nuclear Fusion).

Chaore: I had no idea what you were saying.

UK: Throwing shit at someone who threw shit at you isn't exactly the best way to do things.

Nako: I know what you mean. Most of it is UK x UD though, so yeah.

Zakeri: I disagree with your "UD is the most pro-town guy in the game". Throwing confusion up for the sake of confusion won't do shit. Day 1 was almost always more of a shot in the dark then any other days. Also, the whole "confusion at the bottom" would imply that there was confusion to begin with. There isn't really much "confusion" in the beginning, it's just that we don't really know who to trust. UD just pulled some crap out of no where, and threw it everywhere. And then stated that he did it. =V

Well,
##Vote Zakeri
because his "UD is pro-town" is flawed in my eyes, and it feels like scum defending(using his knowledge of who's not scum) town for t3h townie points when UD flips town.

Sodium

  • pew pew lasers
Re: RosenKreuzStilette Mafia - Day 1
« Reply #139 on: January 15, 2010, 11:23:54 PM »
Oh, and I think UD is dumb town because of the fact he has the badge of stupid gambits, just like NF(a cop), and Seniwac(a VT). Just in case that wasn't clear.

Pesco

  • Trickster Rabbit Tewi
  • *
  • Make a yukkuri and take it easy with me
Re: RosenKreuzStilette Mafia - Day 1
« Reply #140 on: January 15, 2010, 11:27:14 PM »
Sodium makes me feel left out :'(

UncertainJakutten

  • Then you should get out of the way when I tell you
  • Do you not trust my aim?
Re: RosenKreuzStilette Mafia - Day 1
« Reply #141 on: January 15, 2010, 11:28:20 PM »
Quote
UK: Throwing shit at someone who threw shit at you isn't exactly the best way to do things.

Well, actually, I figured I was doing ok, since I produced a case I was willing to back up. I don't think it's "shit" being thrown when it has reasonable reasoning.

Quote
UD: Dumb Town, and receives the badge of "I like stupid gambits"(think Nuclear Fusion).

Despite him flipping between disavowing the gambit and accepting credit for it? Not sure I like this.


Nietz

  • NEETz
  • *
  • Normal Person
Re: RosenKreuzStilette Mafia - Day 1
« Reply #142 on: January 16, 2010, 12:06:22 AM »
A lot of noise from UD and UK. UD at the start looks like a townie being brash just because he can but that  gradually erodes into a more likely Refuge in Audacity (no TVTropes link for you), provoking and tunneling in UK, getting his arguments all over the place and back again, and when other players begin to call him on it, his answer is to ignore them in favor of more UK tunneling.

UK's anger and frustration seem genuine enough, and jumping on a newb town and trying to bring him to lynch from early day 1 is not a sound tactic for experienced scum.

Chaore had some discussions and generally looked active, but in the end there was pretty much nothing coming out of it. Said that we should focus on the "dangerous" instead of UK (implying, I suppose, that if she's scum she'll be easily caught later). There isn't any correlation in the "danger" of a player and the likelihood of him getting a scum role and this is just likely to induce judgement bias, but even when pressed for opinions on scum he gave none.

Pesco looks alright, asking questions that needed to be asked and stuff.

Zakeri, if he's scum, I can see the point of defending town-UD, since he will be very likely lynched, if not Day 1 at some later point. I did agree with his thinking at that point in the thread though, so I'd rather wait to see how his stances develop.

I'm between UD and Chaore, but UD is the worst offender, and I seriously think he will get himslef lynched lynched sooner or later anyway.

##Vote UD

Kanako Yasaka

Re: RosenKreuzStilette Mafia - Day 1
« Reply #143 on: January 16, 2010, 12:20:11 AM »
Chaore- His first couple posts were kinda weird, but whatever. He's definitely not high on my list, but I'll wait for him to post some more before I make any final judgments. Really all he's done has been the somewhat strange #43, calling UD an idiot, then defending his (as in Chaore's) posting style. I'd like to see some actual analysis though.

UsuallyDead- My gods, what do I do with this? :V I'd love to say that this is just newbie mistake, but Jesus Christ. #78 makes me :| and so do all the fucking personal attacks. His whole quarrel with UK is generally stupid, and from what I've seen from other Mafia games they go nowhere. They do nothing but cause more confusion.

UncertainKitten- All I can say is that she should have stopped the argument by now. Like I said before, all they do is cause confusion. Leaning scum on her.

Zakeri- I agree on two of his points, and disagree on two of them. Sodium does have a point, though it seems like something a bit too obvious.

Pesco- Don't think he's really been doing anything worthwhile. I didn't really like his obvscum comment either.

Sodium- Looking fine to me, no elaboration needed.

##Vote: UncertainKitten
FoS: Pesco and Zakeri

Will change to UD if he doesn't stop being obnoxious.



UncertainJakutten

  • Then you should get out of the way when I tell you
  • Do you not trust my aim?
Re: RosenKreuzStilette Mafia - Day 1
« Reply #144 on: January 16, 2010, 12:25:57 AM »
Quote
UncertainKitten- All I can say is that she should have stopped the argument by now. Like I said before, all they do is cause confusion. Leaning scum on her.

Huh? I'd like to know where I should have "stopped the argument" when there was still game relevant stuff amongst the shit UD was throwing. It's kinda over now anyway. Now I'm just trying to clean up and figure out the reasoning of reactions (I don't like :P)



Kanako Yasaka

Re: RosenKreuzStilette Mafia - Day 1
« Reply #145 on: January 16, 2010, 12:32:29 AM »
I couldn't see anything game related in my cesspool of AtE and Personal Attacks.

Spoiler:
im trying to get a vote out gimme a break :<

Kanako Yasaka

Re: RosenKreuzStilette Mafia - Day 1
« Reply #146 on: January 16, 2010, 12:33:48 AM »
EBWOP: Well I could but it was mostly AtE and Personal Attacks. There was definitely a better way to get that info out. >_>

UncertainJakutten

  • Then you should get out of the way when I tell you
  • Do you not trust my aim?
Re: RosenKreuzStilette Mafia - Day 1
« Reply #147 on: January 16, 2010, 12:35:37 AM »
I couldn't see anything game related in my cesspool of AtE and Personal Attacks.

Spoiler:
im trying to get a vote out gimme a break :<

Yeah, it's hard to find, but there were a few attacks on me that were problems with my play, which I felt compelled to debunk since I prefer not to have false accusations levelled against me.

As for trying to get a vote out, I think you could reason it a bit better. Oh well.

EBWOP: Well I could but it was mostly AtE and Personal Attacks. There was definitely a better way to get that info out. >_>

Oh wait, you're accusing me of said things? Oh dear God, please, provide evidence, I need a laugh after that debacle ^-^.


Chaore

  • Kai Ni Recipient Many Years Late
  • *
  • You Finally Did It, Kadokawa.
Re: RosenKreuzStilette Mafia - Day 1
« Reply #148 on: January 16, 2010, 12:37:46 AM »
Well.

Chaore- Man this guys a jerk, Don't like him much. Final: DAMN DOUCHE.

Pesco- I'd attribute timezone and semi-business to his lack of response, and while he did target me, its mostly due to misunderstanding. Final: Unclear, still.

UK- Either the poor sap caught in MASTERMIND UD'S WEB or the only sane voice here. Given how low-class the 'trap' was, I can't honestly say in good faith its impossible a random player wasn't caught. Final: Possible Scum. Med-Priority.

UD- Either randomly going straight out for a lynch on UK with Zak, or well, Idiot Savant. Theres... really no reason, white knight tendencies and all, I should try to defend him looking at it. Final: Very Likely Scum.

Zak- I've seen him clinging to UD too much- I have to say it, If UD is scum, Zak is with him almost no doubt. Or hes just sticking with someone he thinks is in the right. Pulling a me and not really changing vote to avoid a bad lynch. Final: Likely Scum if UD is.

Nako- 'Trying to get a vote' indeed. Final: Seriously, Nako?

I feel like I'm doing something stupid here at the same time, but, well, Everyone else has a point.

##Unvote
##Vote UD

UncertainJakutten

  • Then you should get out of the way when I tell you
  • Do you not trust my aim?
Re: RosenKreuzStilette Mafia - Day 1
« Reply #149 on: January 16, 2010, 12:42:10 AM »
Well, despite the fact that you have a LOT of wiggle room with your reads, I gotta say that's a fairly decent summary of the game that also provides opinions. I like Cha's latest post ^-^.