Then why the hell did you give him a serious business vote?
I voted, he responded with what I deemed acceptable, then I unvoted.
Then why the hell did you give him a serious business vote?
To hide that he is complete clueless? Just a guess.
Why are you answering my questions?
Also, I can think something is weak without thinking it is scummy. I never said I thought Neitz was scum, I said I thought his reasons for the bandwagon were weak. He explained himself, and I have no problems with his explanation at this point and time.
As for why I don't think it makes sense - bandwagons are usually for the sake of forcing somebody into a claim OR because it's DATBF/RVS. Bandwagons happen almost entirely within the first day, and are almost always pointless/bad for town. Weak reason does not equal bandwagon. Weak reason equals one of two things: 1) a vote early in the game. 2) scum who can't think of anything good.
This bit sounds to me that you view weak reasoning in a negative light. Your two possiblities don't draw conclusion of anyone as townie, only neutral at best.
HEY DORIAN! It's not a bandwagon vote if I'm the first one voting him for reasons unrelated to a bandwagon (as in RVS). I can complain about a bandwagon when I don't approve of the bandwagon, despite my vote being on the bandwagoned person.
Current Suspicions -
Donut - Mediocre feel on him, not getting anything one way or the other, but it sure is funny to watch him.
Pesco - I need to read his Donut responses again. Those could easily influence my feelings about him. Currently on Neutral.
Dorian - His heart seems in the right place, but his posts are lacking. How many posts have you made, anyway? Two? Three? And I don't think there's been much information from them either (as in he is being lazy and said so himself). Leaning scum on him.
Neitz - See earlier in this post. Leaning town.
Zakeri - Why does it feel like you haven't said anything useful? Requires a re-read.
Affinity - Are you normally an aggressive player? Do you feel the need to throw a vote around every post? Please respond to this.
Serpentarius - Has this guy posted even? Another I don't feel has said enough.
Cart and Kiro - I'm lumping you guys together. Enjoy that. Needs more reading of them.
Rouk - man, I almost forget him somehow. I had to check the player list like 4 times before I realized who I was missing :/ Needs more reading also.
So the only person I've got any feelings on is... Dorian, huh.
Coupled with the previous quote, I'm not seeing why you would vote Dorian after all this.
Nietz's elaboration on Donut's scumminess here seems solid.
Which parts were you agreeing with?
:hfive:
Awesome, thanks for posting Serp.
EBWOP on my long post: Serp has shifted to leaning town based on his big post. There's too much effort in their for me to think of him as scum.
Bullshit. Serp is capable of effort regardless of whether he's town or not. I'd say you don't make the town cut by your own standard of effort.
Except probably Fusion, who gives town credit based on a large post without even addressing the content. For one thing, big posts mean about as much for alignment as what colour someone's name is (especially in MotK mafia, but I digress.) For another, that's really lazy.
Nor am I happy with him handicapping his own bandwagon and storming at Neitz for being willing to vote for a weak reason- it's day one many reasons are weak, they're still the only ones. Pixelbitching over this and not unvoting immediately upon what seems to be strong bandwagon suspicion is extremely troubling.
I'm not entirely comfortable with him prodding Dorian, either. The guy is clearly clueless, and I already think lynching him is always going to be a crapshoot. It's an easy thing to post that doesn't require thinking, or even really reading.
I agree with all the stuff here.
As for Serp's long post - there was a double move going on there, but thanks to you and donut, it's been shattered. Congrats, guys. Yes, I'm fully aware of long posts not necessarily being full of content (for what it's worth, I feel serp's post was full of content). The fact is if you slap scum on the back and make them feel safe, you lure them into a false sense of security. But thanks to you guys, that's just not going to work with Serp.
...
And here we go addressing Serp again - Serp put effort into his posts... much like I'm seeing you doing. I tend to let people who put effort go by because even in the event that they are mafia, they are still supplying the town with information. And the town needs information. I'd rather lynch lurking scum then the ones who are helping the town, even if they are trying to misdirect the town.
I'm going top go into a little about player background here. The MotK mafia archive has links to the games completed recently. The resources are there, and if you don't use them, that's your loss. I'm going by the assumption that everyone knows at least something about the others, be it by reputation or personal knowledge.
I think NF has taken Serp too lightly and really, what you're doing here 'patting scum on the back' is the same as scum patting town on the back. It's a play that scum benefit more from because that's one vote that could be easier to swing for later. It is canon that good townies don't play like this. I am calling it a scummy move and you're trying to cover your ass for backtracking.
Pesco
Scummy:
-Insults Donut
-Insults Roukanken
-Deflects questions aimed towards him
-unvotes Donut when Donut gives poor reasoning to attack him
-Covers above point up with IIoA, saying he doesn't feel Donut is scum
General Feeling - ##Vote: Pesco
Nuclear Fusion
Scummy:
-Trying to attack a wagon that his vote is on
-Defends his vote as not being a part of the wagon
-Continues defending his vote instead of explaining why he voted and why it's different from the bandwagon
-Admits he's neutral on Pesco Vs. Donut and still doesn't change his vote
-Makes a General thoughts on everyone list without doing very much analysis on anyone. His reasons for voting Dorian seem forced when he writes them, and it seems like an afterthought when he places the vote.
-Too quick to praise Serpentarius.
General Thoughts - wow, what a crime list. I also didn't catch any town tells.
My basic thoughts right now is that Donut seems like an easy target, while Pesco is acting like Scum-Pesco and Nuclear is acting like a mafioso that accidentally got in the way of and is trying to get out of the way of people's suspicions. I would vote for either Pesco or Nuke.
Would I still be scummy if I insulted Kiro or Carthrat? I'm not seeing the deflection that everyone just brings up without any links or quotes, I think I've answered it.
Comparing the list you've got here, it feels to me that you think voting me is a safer lynch to push. Yet what you've said of NF is clearly more serious and less subjective. "Pesco is acting like Scum-Pesco and Nuclear is acting like mafioso", I interpret that as "Pesco feels like scum by gut and Nuclear feels like scum by facts". Can you explain why I'm more deserving of being lynched over NF?
IIoA post from you btw. Even if it was just a summary, not enough explanation.
pesco's reaction to donuts kinda weirds me out. He attacks you with some bad reasoning and your reaction is... unvote him and vote Kiro?
I felt Donut wasn't scummy by then, he was simply being an idiot (yay more insults!). The unvote is my stance and I'll revote him when I think he's scummy.
Voting Kiro is a separate issue altogether. The unvote and vote appearing together is merely formatting of my post. My beef with Kiro was posted right after that, don't tell me you didn't see it just because I place a vote before reasons within the same post.
One more time!
Voted donut in the RVS.
Didn't approve of the bandwagon.
Didn't change my vote cause I didn't see the relevance of changing it.
Admitted that if somebody had put another vote on donut, I'd have unvoted.
And yes, I am fully aware of how the Serp thing would have worked. I'm willing to take the risks involved in gambits. This is how I play.
Furthermore - I believe I -am- actively hunting scum a lot more than other people. Maybe it's because I've been sitting here refreshing the page for the last three hours. Throwing votes around will not actively catch scum. Getting these long posts around people will catch scum. Hence I like the fact that people are posting like this. It is good for town.
Also - ya, baseless accusations are fun. I'm playing on a different style than most of you, and I'll be damned if I change what I know works. Most of that accusation stemmed from the random defense of Dorian which I feel is unwarranted.
The converse of not changing your vote, was there any relevance to keeping it?
You took a risk, but now you're dodging responsibility.
Post volume and activity =/= scumhunting effort. I'll be stating for the record that I'll L-2, L-1 or hammer you quite readily now for the bolded line.
In summary of NF taking center stage, I note that he's reacted quite strongly once people started voting him seriously. All this defensiveness from 3 votes and less.
Kiro hasn't responded, so I don't want to give him a pass with unvoting just yet. You can consider my vote as good as on NF already.
