<ArashiKurobara> @dice 1d17
<Keine> 11
Keine's word is law. :3
##Vote: Alice
[19:37] <ArashiKurobara> @dice 1d20
[19:37] <Keine> ArashiKurobara: 19
[19:37] <ArashiKurobara> @dice 1d20
[19:37] <Keine> ArashiKurobara: 5
what was this then?
Vote Kilga4u
Obv scum, knows all the roles, including scum team, refuses to share with town, (ry
Also, Dayvig Suwako
I think that takes care of the moderation scum masonry.
? Last Edit: Today at 02:56:14 pm by Usually Dead ?
1) Pesco (Axelle)
Everyone, vote for UK. She's a noble soul, so that even if she's Town, she'll happily die for the sake of providing information against the Scum menace.
And if she is scum, lynch lynch lynch!
You really can tell UD is new at this. Its NEVER good to lose a townie. Its less voting power, and possibly a role lost.
The only good time a townie is lost is when well, they're not worth keeping even if they're a townie.
That said, UK isn't dangerous enough as scum to warrant that.
Yes.
It could also be that I want to piss off UK just that badly.
Or both. Or neither!
It's a mystery~~~
Wait what.
Commenting on how that was a pretty stupid statement is scum-like?
That's right! You have no business answering for me.
Pesco: My surety is the fundamental fact upon which other facts are based.
You really can tell UD is new at this. Its NEVER good to lose a townie. Its less voting power, and possibly a role lost.
The only good time a townie is lost is when well, they're not worth keeping even if they're a townie.
That said, UK isn't dangerous enough as scum to warrant that.
- Play to win
Bullshit and confusion.
XD
Ahahaha UK. That's not gonna get you anywhere.
Way to fail at life, girl.
XD
Ahahaha UK. That's not gonna get you anywhere.
Way to fail at life, girl.
... :V
You had to try and make me eat my words. Now I have to wonder if I should swap to you.
A little bragging does not make a scum though.
I'm afraid I don't have the energy for it, UK. Arguing with you has proven to be nothing but an exercise of "You can't change my mind so don't try." And there's nothing wrong with that. You're entitled to your opinion. Just makes it a waste of time, is all.
I'll just be sitting in my corner, comfortable with the facts.
If I'm being a "stump" it's only because it's too early to make definitive statements about anyone.
That said, UK isn't dangerous enough as scum to warrant that.Assuming UK is scum in this case, why shouldn't we be voting for her? I will be ignoring probability based answers for this question due to the hypothetical part of the question.
Wait what.I'm confused on your stance. Are you in favor of Pesco and UK? Or UD?
Commenting on how that was a pretty stupid statement is scum-like?
How was that answering for him? I was berating him as an idiot!Does this mean the above quote is actually an Ad Hominim?
I can ignore UD for a bit now, but he is not to live to LyLo.
You really can tell UD is new at this. Its NEVER good to lose a townie. Its less voting power, and possibly a role lost.
The only good time a townie is lost is when well, they're not worth keeping even if they're a townie.
That said, UK isn't dangerous enough as scum to warrant that.
Zakeri, why is UD town? There is NO reason for a townie, even a new townie, to act this stupid.Yes there is actually.
I advocate his immediate removal by vig.I know your trigger finger gets itchy once in a while, but could you stop pressuring our vig?
Further, the case can be made that his desire to cause more noise (bullshit and confusion as he says), can be construed as scummy.Obviously, it can be construed as scummy. The question now is "why should it be construed as scummy behavior?"
I guess I'm more interested in how you could possibly see UD as someone with a town win condition.It's very simple to read, once you go back on what has happened and what UD's intentions are without trying to see the attacked party as a victim of paranoia.
I've noticed how UD could be dumb town, but that's purely speculative and if true, forgivable on his part.
...referring to how hes a new player?
Crap, Best not talk about all the others too. :V Its another form of insult, He doesn't seem to be playing right for the route he took.
Yes there is actually.
I know your trigger finger gets itchy once in a while, but could you stop pressuring our vig?
Obviously, it can be construed as scummy. The question now is "why should it be construed as scummy behavior?"
It's very simple to read, once you go back on what has happened and what UD's intentions are without trying to see the attacked party as a victim of paranoia.
1. ...the fuck did I say she was scum, but don't vote for her? ANYONE could be scum right now. There is literally no priority to give her in shot down. There are more dangerous players, until we've got a bit more of a peg on her stance, voting for her is probably one of the worse ideas.
2. I was kind of just commenting on 'Holy crap that is terrible logic.' And then boxed myself in around then. Right now, I'd say I'm not with UD anytime soon.
3. I use Idiot alot, this applies to how you play. Idiot is a pointless word from me.
No need for sarcasm. I think I know what Tewi meant and your are misinterpreting it. But, we'll wait for him to respond so I can confirm.
I was afraid I'd get a condescending starter.
I'll address what I meant. Its not that there is no point, If she is scum, There is obviously a point. However, She can NOT be scum. The relative gain from her being taken out as scum seems to me to be less than the general worth of a townie. I didn't say 'If shes scum, No reason to kill her anyway'. I said 'Given we don't know if she is scum, there really are better targets for lynching.' Its opportunity cost.
No your argument is invalid because, even viewed in the worst possible light, nothing I've done here portrays a "basic" misunderstanding of the game. Rather, a moderate-to-advanced understanding.
Next time you do poorly at something I'm good at, just because you've never been exposed to it before, I'm going to rub salt in it so hard.
Post directed @ UK.
Your wording deserves only a facepalm.
Oh shit! Tvtropes linked! GAME OVER, MAN, GAME OVER...
Oh shit! Tvtropes linked! GAME OVER, MAN, GAME OVER...
Please, what?
Because UD is likely scum? I mean, that's not really a question that has an answer.
Huh? I don't understand what you are getting at here.
I didn't say 'If shes scum, No reason to kill her anyway'. I said 'Given we don't know if she is scum, there really are better targets for lynching.' Its opportunity cost.Alright then, I'll let this go, now.
The correct answer is "Reaction Formation." Stirring up bullshit and making noise is what get's people to talk in these games.
It was said earlier that UD was trying to spread confusion around, but there's really nothing else to spread around in these waters. The water is only clear and blue because the confusion is nestled at the bottom. Once someone stirs it all up the confusion clouds the water, but then we can sort through it and clean it easier than by just scrubbing the bottom. Once the confusion is cleared up, we're that much closer to cleaning up all of the scum, so it's much better for them is the water never stirred in the first place.
It's safe to say that UD is actually the most pro-town person in the game so far.
pre-cut: ...12 new replies already. sheesh.
Alright then, I'll let this go, now.
BTW, Who's scum?
Zakeri: Thank you. My ego really does love how you keep defending me, but it's not for your own good.You're welcome~
Yeah, That was probably his plan.I'll admit, I got caught up in attacking UK's attacks of UD because I thought they were wrong. Still, it's not the sort of plan that simply knowing what it is helps prevent you from falling for it. though I guess I sort of ruined it, now, huh?
Why did you tell it now though? Most of the players haven't even read the thread yet.
Quote from: ZakeriBTW, Who's scum?
I'm pretty sure that was a joke, kitten.No it wasn't. It was a more direct way of asking what you refused to answer in question 2.
I'll admit, I got caught up in attacking UK's attacks of UD because I thought they were wrong. Still, it's not the sort of plan that simply knowing what it is helps prevent you from falling for it. though I guess I sort of ruined it, now, huh?
72 hours is plenty of time to browse TVTropes, Silly Pesco.
You know what? I've thought about this a bit, and it's just too much to bear.
I refuse to believe that UK's attacks on me were motivated by any degree of personal anger, even if that anger is inspired by my own inexperience. She thinks of herself as too professional for that.
UK, my first vote against you was just bullshit, just trying to stir the waters and get scum to expose itself. Much to my surprise, it worked.
##Unvote
##Vote UncertainKitten
Clarification to clarification >_>: Anyone is allowed to roleclaim, but they must paraphrase while doing so. No hitting Quote while reading the PM and pasting what you get in the thread.
Oh. OH. Now I get it. Derp.
Uhhh.... Huhm. As far as the scuffle goes, I think it may really just be UD that came out on top of it. Overall, I would still say its a bit early to make judgments. But I'm more uncertain than kitten.
So Scum: Undetermined.
UK: None of your prior games had me in them. I can't take them at face value.
And no, this is not because you're acting with any personal anger against me, but because I act in a way that surprises you. You've said as much yourself.
And no, this is not because you're acting with any personal anger against me, but because I act in a way that surprises you. You've said as much yourself.
UK: None of your prior games had me in them. I can't take them at face value.
And no, this is not because you're acting with any personal anger against me, but because I act in a way that surprises you. You've said as much yourself.
Again, in my mind you two are relatively tied together. I hope to get UD's flip to help decide with you. At this point, anyway.
Oh. OH. Now I get it. Derp.Noted for further evaluation. I think it's time to wait for others to weight in now. I'll move my vote later as needed.
Uhhh.... Huhm. As far as the scuffle goes, I think it may really just be UD that came out on top of it. Overall, I would still say its a bit early to make judgments. But I'm more uncertain than kitten.
So Scum: Undetermined.
In all fairness, this is utter bull since no matter what UD flips at this point, you can use to for "sufficient evidence" as to why I'm scum. I'm tempted to call this out as lining up town lynches.
UK: Rather I was saying DO expect you NOT to act in personal anger, and I was trying to prevent that you might misunderstand that I WAS saying that.
UK: You're harkening back to what I said before. You see yourself as too professional to allow any degree of anger or frustration at me, be it inside this game or outside it, to sway your choice. Your pride wouldn't allow it.
Thus your harsh attacks against a newbie are the epitome of scummy behavior. My vote against you remains.
What do I have to backpedal? I never claimed to be anything other than inexperienced.
Zakeri: Thank you. My ego really does love how you keep defending me, but it's not for your own good.
It seems as though you recognize the genuine intentions of my newness and are trying to garner my favor because of that. It almost appears as though you'd be trying to gain an ally or two, but the utter suspicion this game breeds wouldn't allow for that.
Don't worry though. I won't switch my vote to you just yet. My vanity forbids it, for the time being.
You know what? I've thought about this a bit, and it's just too much to bear.
I refuse to believe that UK's attacks on me were motivated by any degree of personal anger, even if that anger is inspired by my own inexperience. She thinks of herself as too professional for that.
UK, my first vote against you was just bullshit, just trying to stir the waters and get scum to expose itself. Much to my surprise, it worked.
##Unvote
##Vote UncertainKitten
I can now? No, actually, at this point I think both of you are the same alignment. You still might be town if UD flips scum, and almost certainly are if UD flips town (which I doubt). I don't plan to use this as my only point in a case against you, should I need one. I'm merely committing to seeing you two as relatively tied together, and at this point would assume you were scum if UD were revealed as scum now.This is the sort of stuff I like seeing as town.
I'm sorry that you don't understand, UK. I can't be bothered to reword it over and over.
I admitted that my first vote against you was random. Your response to that is what exposed you as scum.
And why should I look elsewhere for now? You and I are the two most prominent people posting so far. I will (and I have) paid attention when it's been pertinent.
Also, UK. Those two things of mine you quoted. How are they contradictory?
I ask that with great hesitation. I'm exactly one centimeter from just ignoring you for the rest of this first day.
Since I brought it up first, though without that word, I'll be glad to show you.Could you explain this condescendingly? All I see is UD going from being paranoid of my "Defending" to using my understanding of the situation as grounds to form an attack on you.
From this:
To this:
Anyway, basically you are saying that Zak gives you to much credit. Then you claim "Just as planned" in the next post.You're basically putting words into UD's mouth. I don't see where the first quoted post says that it wasn't all part of the plan, nor does the second post says it was all part of the plan, but I won't hold it against you since I can see how one would think both were implied.
What do I have to backpedal? I never claimed to be anything other than inexperienced.
No your argument is invalid because, even viewed in the worst possible light, nothing I've done here portrays a "basic" misunderstanding of the game. Rather, a moderate-to-advanced understanding.
Next time you do poorly at something I'm good at, just because you've never been exposed to it before, I'm going to rub salt in it so hard.
UK: I'm.... kind of sick of you twisting my words to mean things they don't mean. This is too much like our IRC arguments. >_>
I'm done for the rest of this in-game Day. (Part of me thinks it'll be a blessing if I get lynched or killed. Arguing with you is entirely like trying to describe the finer philosophical points of C.S. Lewis's writings to a cinder block.)
You're basically putting words into UD's mouth. I don't see where the first quoted post says that it wasn't all part of the plan, nor does the second post says it was all part of the plan, but I won't hold it against you since I can see how one would think both were implied.
I'm done for the rest of this in-game Day.
- Everyone must post at least once every 24 hours, standard modkill warning system applied, inactivity modkills will flip at end of day
- Days 1-3 will last 48 hours
UK: Throwing shit at someone who threw shit at you isn't exactly the best way to do things.
UD: Dumb Town, and receives the badge of "I like stupid gambits"(think Nuclear Fusion).
UncertainKitten- All I can say is that she should have stopped the argument by now. Like I said before, all they do is cause confusion. Leaning scum on her.
I couldn't see anything game related in my cesspool of AtE and Personal Attacks.im trying to get a vote out gimme a break :<
EBWOP: Well I could but it was mostly AtE and Personal Attacks. There was definitely a better way to get that info out. >_>
UsuallyDead: (7): UncertainKitten, Edible, Carthrat, Arashi Kurobara, Nietz, Chaore, KanakoOh my~ Let's not make this game too quick, now.
Well, that and I'm biased against UD.
At the same time, UK, if at this point you are scum bluffing as town, your bluff is good enough for me.
##Unvote
I'm really doing this just because I'm fucking sick of arguing with you about every little thing. Even winning a Mafia game isn't worth it. So my arguments were noobie shit. I've never done this before, woman.
Fine, UK. You won. I'll run along with blood trailing down my legs like a good little bitch.
Now let's let some other people incriminate themselves, eh?
UD- Either randomly going straight out for a lynch on UK with Zak, or well, Idiot Savant. Theres... really no reason, white knight tendencies and all, I should try to defend him looking at it. Final: Very Likely Scum.
I'm summarizing, Thats probably why you think it looks bad. Its not a -reason-. Does ANYTHING on that post actually look like a reason?
You still don't get it UD.
I realize this is a team game, UK. But when you said that you're biased against me, isn't that you admitting you are also too personally invested in this?
I would like an answer to Kitten4U's question. Please state/restate why I am scummy, Chaore.
Its the same stuff, really. Edible mentioned Zak, I believe.
The fact hes pretty poorly setting these lynches have been most other's reasons as well.
Is anyone that stupid?I've seen people roleclaim Scum at L-1 on D1 when they were Scum. Some people really are not the sharpest tools in the shed, if you know what I mean.
No wait, don't answer that :P
I think UD's flirting with UK. At the very least he's definitely provoking her.Bingo. There are two options for this:
Possibility that UD and UK are or were secretly working together.
So, UK, why the unvote if UD was just someone whose alignment you don't know, who you thought was likely Scum? I mean I don't like how quickly his wagon developed either with virtually no opposition, but at the same time, he's really not in any immediate danger.
(granted, you don't need *much* to justify a UD vote at this point, which is precisely why he's an ideal D1 lynch target for Scum)
And apparently me calling UD an idiot is out of line. Funny that.Fine, fine, I got a little carried away with the insults. It's nothing personal, don't worry about it~
You seem to be the only one here incapable of deciphering common english.On the contrary, I'd say you deserve that title.
'Everything you do is stupid' does not really tend to be a good reason in the least. Come back when you feel like not making an ass out of yourself, and I'll answer you. Most of your comments are 'You are fucking stupid!', ignoring anything I said.Okay, let me summarize my post for you since you seem to have ignored anything that wasn't an insult/swearword:
Read. It answers your question. Rather nicely.
The fact hes pretty poorly setting these lynches have been most other's reasons as well.These lynches? UD has mainly flipflopped on and off UK for most of this game. Moreover, why are you appealing directly to others' arguments without even so much as specifying what they are? Finally, the main issue here: antecedents are your friend. I still cannot figure out if you are referring to UD or Zak here, though it makes more sense if I assume UD. Please correct me if I am wrong.
Ninja Kitten4u: While I agree with you that this isn't something that someone normally would not say if they thought UD was scum, why do you think that?
Oh, so you noticed this too? I don't see why you have issue with me backing off.I don't have issue with the act itsself - heck, I've done this exact same thing myself in the past, as Town, and gotten flack over it, so in actuality what I was looking for was what your motivation behind this was, as it could potentially be Scummy. However, at this point I'm fairly certain it's a null read.
-Oh lord and a half. The two change within moments of each other twice, Zak takes UK, UD takes it as a sign to jump aboard. Zak goes for me instead due to UD's mess up, I'm next to the pit. Zak is also probably his strongest supporter, 'UD IS TOTALLY TOWN EVERYONE ELSE IS SCUM LIKELY', not to mention he made that connection I took after. He probably tossed him the specifics as well. I really hate spelling things out, sorry.The only part where Zakeri and UD follow up with timed votes on UK is during the random-voting phase, wherein they just happen to post one after the other. After this, Zakeri shifts his attention to you while defending UD, whereas UD waffles on UK and finally votes her again after a brief unvote, while not paying much attention to Zakeri beyond a brief "um, why are you doing this exactly, Zakeri?" question in Post#99.
In the interests of not degenerating this into a discussion and a Gotcha! game, I would like you to summarize your opinions on both UsuallyDead AND Zakeri, and back up your opinions with facts...s/discussion/argument/
Chaore- if you didn't know, I always always always end up not voting for some reason or another. It's part of my misguided quest to become assertive. =)This makes no sense to me because as a general rule if you are not voting for someone you're being the exact opposite of assertive.
Now I need to spend the next few hours looking for the next likely scum candidate.I know OMGUS is looked down upon in general, but I think a wonderful place to start would be the more quieter people listed in my last post on page 6.
UD is probably just newbie town. The speed that his wagon formed makes me feel uncomfortable. I'm betting there's scum on there.Damn, now it won't be original when I say it. I also agree with everything else in this post.
I think UK is probably town too. Her RAEG doesn't seem forced imo, even if I disagree with what she's been saying.
At that, Zak and UD mostly appear to be working on the same agenda.The same agenda, how? The first votes on UK don't count because they were both random, And it's not as if two people voting for the same person for the same reason means they're both in cahoots to kill you. Following that logic, shouldn't you be more wary of the people who all voted for UD?
why is UD the most Pro-Town player in this game currently? I can understand claiming him to be Town, but "most Pro-Town player"? I can't really see any reason why you'd claim this as Scum OR Town.I felt UD was the most pro-town due to, as I explained before, the fact that I felt stirring up the waters was a pro-town thing to do. At that point, only two people besides UD had done anything (UK and Pesco) and what they did was attack UD.
Now I'm just getting sick of you. If your intent is to annoy me into wanting out of this, congrats, You half suceeded.
As for why I'm leaving, Mafia is a game where you fight to make people believe things through argument.There needs to be some sort of warning about this before we ask people to sign up.
I had around 20 minutes ride to rethink and people getting on my case for not voting.Your response to this
I'll admit a deal behind the vote was a bit of pressure. If I'm doing wrong by not voting, fine, fine, I'll take a vote.
What changed? Assuming I'm referencing the right posts, it looks like the things that you referenced had already happened before you posted that. So, if that's really why you believe UD is scum, why didn't you vote for him back there??
There needs to be some sort of warning about this before we ask people to sign up.
Mafia: A fun, innocent game where you yell at each other until you're blue in the face.
I thought you knew better than that, sister~
Zak realizes UD is fucking up, Trys to cover his ass and shifts to me in #67. The two go through the whole thing elsewhere, and Zak explains how I'm a better choice. UD agrees or gets it and waffles on #78. He fucks up bigger, and now Zak NEEDS to help him cover his ass. He goes through trying to explain why UD is being an idiot, And gets UD to cover himself. At this point though, he obviously has thrown his ass in the fire. Zak thus goes in with #95, attempting to apply a plan to UD's behavior. #99 is UD trying to strengthen this and make Zak seem better. #105 is repeating it outright and shifting from his mistake. At this point, I'm dropped, so it seems like the attention can shit to UK. At this point, Either both or UD has realized its stupid to keep grouped, and act on 'seperate' agendas. Then Edible and everyone shows up.While the timing of #78 is suspicious, it could equally likely be an OMGUS response to your #43 (Occam's Razor in fact states that it is, but Occam's Razor often does not apply in mafia). Interesting observation though. #95 is Zakeri defending UD and posting nonsense along the lines of "he's the most Pro-Town player in this gaem", whatever. It's suspicious, but as I stated in my post#180, it does not necessarily implicate a Scum-Zak even if a Scum-UD exists, and it especially does not implicate a Scum-Zak if UD is, in fact, Town. #99, on the other hand, reads like transparent sarcasm.
Wait holy shit you want evidence they thought and did all this, And you're just pointing to posts and saying I'm scum?No, I'm pointing to posts and stating "this statement here is something which is Scummy, when combined with these other statements it is overwhelmingly likely that you are Scum at the moment compared to anyone else".
Same for me then. What am I thinking and doing, with extended evidence.
Go ahead. Seriously. Go ahead. I am absolutely dying to see what SUPER ALICE, MAFIA MASTER has to say. If you have anything that isn't the same as what I'm doing, I'll raise my hands and admit I've got nothing. In the same vein, Realize what you said applies to -you- as well. I've avoided outright saying it, But you can be scum too.Thanks, it's a good thing I wasn't drinking coffee right now because otherwise it would be on my monitor. While I do appreciate the compliments, I am not sure what your point is. Yes, I AM doing exactly what you are now doing, except (imho) slightly better than you are. But at its core it is the same. I am NOT doing exactly what you have done in the past couple posts, which is whine and bitch and moan and vaguely point fingers at other people.
UK, my first vote against you was just bullshit, just trying to stir the waters and get scum to expose itself. Much to my surprise, it worked.
I never claimed credit for [a baiting gamibt]. Everyone assumed it.
UD going 'fuck this I quit' is hair-tearingly irritating. However, almost every time I see someone pull something like that early game, they turn out to be town in the end.
Serp - What do you determine of Sodium if you use the template for Kanako on Sodium?
UsuallyDead: (7): UncertainKitten, Edible, Carthrat, Arashi Kurobara, Nietz, Chaore, Kanako
Again, in my mind you two are relatively tied together. I hope to get UD's flip to help decide with you. At this point, anyway.Really really really REALLY bad. If x flips scum, lynch y etc. Biggest scumtell ever.
UD is town.How the hell can you definitely know that UD is town and Chaore is scum? The only people who would know that are scum. So yeah, not comfortable with you; I don't believe you'd draw those conclusions purely from the clusterfuck. On the other hand, I do believe that 'pesco' is worth a good hard look, as everyone's given him a free ride so far.
UK and Pesco are likely scumbuddies. Pesco is more likely to be scum than UK between the two of them.
Chaore is definitely scum.
You are obvscum for sure now.Drastic and heavyhanded. The noob might be a noob, but 'obvscum'? Looks like someone has found an easy target and intends to make the most of it.
Time to refresh up on Chaore. My post here (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php?topic=4654.msg221222#msg221222) explained fully is that Chaore playing the newbie card for UD is obvscum to me. He's also been rather defensive if you consider the flow of posting that he responds to.Defensive? After being attacked? Good heavens, who'd have thought?
I felt UD was the most pro-town due to, as I explained before, the fact that I felt stirring up the waters was a pro-town thing to do. At that point, only two people besides UD had done anything (UK and Pesco) and what they did was attack UD.Personal attacks do not qualify as 'stirring up the waters'. How are people expected to respond to an ad hominem case other than 'that's stupid'?
I say UD's case is pretty much ruined at this point.
Ninja by ... Roukanken. <_< Not doing anything to help ease my suspicion of UD.Nothing to be done. As much as I may want to argue it, UD's play was pretty much indefensible. Only way I can defend myself is by pressing on with a case, but at the same time people are being far too loud already so I'm making my points against Zakeri short and simple. Namely: Declaring UD pro-town for the sake of 'he stirred up action via ad hominem. Sounds extremely like setting himself up to look good following the UD flip.
UK, why are you keeping that game of "Hahaha, UD's flip will tell you who I am!". At this point, UD's flip won't help anything. Sure you could try hooking up with x and y, but in the end, I say UD's case is pretty much ruined at this point. And yes, I'd like for his token to be disposed of, but you make it sound like all the game and cases are revolving around UD's flip calling people about it in your last post. ##Vote: UncertainKitten
Pretty much was, Note why I'm taking it to chill out today. Its really pointless if I just run in with words a shooting. Lots of useless comments don't look better than a few useful comments.
UsuallyDead: (7): UncertainKitten, Edible, Carthrat, Arashi Kurobara, Nietz, Chaore, Kanako
I think Chaore is experiencing what happened to Sol in ⑨ Squad. He's digging himself into a hole with every single post he makes, and then being persecuted for bad play. I'm going to give him the benefit of the doubt for now. I say that he's trying too hard.
Jam: I believe the general consensus is that Zakeri is insisting that UD is town, so that when/if he gets lynched, Zakeri will get townie points. This makes him look REALLY scummy, since his insisting that UD is town came from nowhere and his reasoning is even worse.
...oh fuck I have to get a haircut now. What a great time to cut off a post.
Pesco is correct Chaore. At this point you're going to have to speak in order to try to defend yourself as you still have the most votes and will thus be lynched at the end of the day unless this changes.
Kanako: Yeah I get that. I'm unsure as to whether that makes Zakeri clearly scum or not as it seems a very transparent move and thus he could still be town but just not thinking it out to well. Either way, he's one I'll keep my eyes on.
And apparently me calling UD an idiot is out of line. Funny that.
You seem to be the only one here incapable of deciphering common english.
'Everything you do is stupid' does not really tend to be a good reason in the least. Come back when you feel like not making an ass out of yourself, and I'll answer you. Most of your comments are 'You are fucking stupid!', ignoring anything I said.
Read. It answers your question. Rather nicely.
I'd worry less about it if it wasn't so reminiscent of me. So this is why people hate arguing with me.
I really hate spelling things out, sorry.
-There, I'm an idiot and going off my shitty memory. Edible doesn't mention Zak, just close enough that gets me on the idea. My bad.
(Tetris off topic: UK is catching up to you(bofh) on the win list btw.)
UK: At the time being I'm leaning towards voting for Chaore based on his manner of posting. His statement in 244 of thinking he will now lay low could be interpreted as him trying to get attention off of himself.
Honestly... ##Vote Chaore
There are still other people to be watched but at the time being Chaore seems to be somewhat scummy and unknowing how to handle it he's simply trying to keep himself off of our minds by not posting as much as he did earlier on.
I feel like I'm doing something stupid here at the same time, but, well, Everyone else has a point.
##Unvote
##Vote UD
I'll admit a deal behind the vote was a bit of pressure. If I'm doing wrong by not voting, fine, fine, I'll take a vote.
I'm literally the other train, I can't really just move.
Pesco- I'd attribute timezone and semi-business to his lack of response, and while he did target me, its mostly due to misunderstanding.
You[UD] don't know to be discreet as a scum, and go straight to get everyone out. Therefore, switch alot.
I don't see how his explanation at link (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php?topic=4654.msg221222#msg221222) comes anywhere close to explaining how he reached his conclusion.
Inaba Tewi continues to antagonize UD. It looks more like Inaba is trying to provoke UD than pursue any genuine questioning.
pesco's Big List Of Useless Summarizations is making me question his alignment. I don't think I've ever seen that sort of thing out of pesco (scum or town) - and I know I've seen him call people on making useless opinion lists on day 1. I'll need to look at his contributions a little more in-depth.
Anyone who moved in my position is an idiot.Why, exactly? Where does your case against UD expand beyond 'he's making stupid newbie mistakes'?
'Safer' means at the time, We really wouldn't have lost anyone if he got lynched, and it might've cleared Zak's case a bit.Does that still hold for me post-replacement?
The alternative is, well, no lynch at all, which gives no information and lets scum have a free kill.
- Town must lynch (no majority = player with highest vote count at end of day is lynched)
There actually are deadline lynches in this game.themoreyouknow.jpg
I love how you say you'd settle as long as there was a lynchis not the same as
I've no complaints if I have to settle for Chaore this late in the day.I will vote Chaore if it becomes clear the Zak wagon isn't happening.
'Safer' means at the time, We really wouldn't have lost anyone if he got lynched, and it might've cleared Zak's case a bit.No, no. This sentence reeks of scum a lot.
UK: Thanks for the reply, but one thing is peeling off a useful bandwagon, clearly thought, done for a very good reason with arguments on the table. That one was a free ride done with +%60 personal influences on it that give little to no info whatsoever if you try to peel it out.
UncertainKitten, I understand. I am wondering what you mean by "most questionable wagoner" in regards to Chaore. Are you saying that he's the scummiest?
@Rou: Don't really agree with the Zak case, I was initially thinking UD was looking alright for stirring things up early on... ad hominem or not. Doesn't matter as long as things get going. Is that seriously it?Explain to me how something productive can emerge from personal attacks. There is nothing to analyse or discuss. It's an insult, not a case.
It gets people talking. That's all that matters early on, when pretty much all arguments are going to be flawed somehow anyway or otherwise based on local memes or relationships.It gets people talking about nothing. That isn't discussion, it's noise. It's the difference between a case with no evidence and a case with poor evidence. The latter gets people talking productively. The former makes people turn around in unison and declare you clueless.
Alright, I see the point against 'nako. His actions do have all the look of trying to slip an easy vote in the wagon of the hour. Could be, as someone mentioned, a spineless town, but could even more easily be a spineless scum.
Chaore doesn't look any better for me, in fact worse. Looks too much like cornered scum, trying find any way out.
Right now these are the only ones I feel like voting, and I'm very indecisive at that. Chaore is the leading wagon right, but Kanako still can be worked as an alternative.
I'm still going with ##Vote Chaore since it was my intention before, we can see about Kanako later.
Taking it easy on you for now because I was sort of the one who convinced you to join,
I answered that. A good while ago.
20 Minutes to think it over, and comments on how I should take a side already.
The difference between "dumb town" and scum is nil, in my eyes. Dumb town is different to noob @ game. You're walking a very fine line there. It's a horrible idea to assume that 'no scum could be that stupid, it must be town.'Isn't the part I emphasized incorrect by definition? Of course scum can be stupid, and of course dumb != noob nor vice-versa, but dumb town is still town. Whether or not UD (now Rou) actually is dumb town is still a question at hand, and I don't agree with Sodium concluding such just based on stupidity and gambits, but you seem to be taking the exact same tack the other way around. I don't have an opinion yet, but I haven't liked what I've seen either.
Haven't you actually done the same? You've not given anything in length till FAR FAR after you voted me. Yours and Alice's initial shots seemed mostly out of the blue.
I can do great deal of scumhunting with that.
I was being sarcastic there, I don't think you need to point that out.
Also, Yes, I noticed. I completely forgot that was your reason, It just seemed to be a picked out response and the same hand picked and used generic reason every other voter had.
Also. 'Well you're not immediately trying to start another train with little to no good reasoning, and sticking on a train you're still not discounted on. You should vote for YOURSELF. How dare you. SCUM.' It just seems to be reasoning to hop on a train, to me.
There's all this worry about being safe and wanting to clear up your theories and 'oh I don't know anything about anyone else'. These are not the marks of a true scumhunter, but rather the mark of someone picking out lynches he finds convenient rather than justified.I fail to see the resemblance. He voted you because you're not scumhunting in his opinion.
Chaore, you're at L-2 with a quarter of the day left, you should probably roleclaim
Wait what? People actually -seriously- try and claim they're a role as a defense?
I thought that was a myth.
I don't like how Serp's post on claiming could have just said 'Tell the truth' instead of advising how to draw out roles.
Serp emerging to say 'your lynch is useless, Chaore is clearly noob town' rings of the same scumminess I'm accusing Zak of having.
I didn't look at the link you gave him since I'm phoneposting, but it's not a stretch to see that you directed him to how to fakeclaim.He linked Communication Breakdance D2 - i.e. Sodium fakeclaiming Doc and Serp waiting 100 posts to counterclaim. This is, well, sort of horrible.
We have a deadline lynch anyway, so there's no point in hammering.
Yes there is, it gives closure, forestalls inane discussion, and sets a trend of a general lack of weasel room. Firmness is good and manly. Someone hammer plz.Except it also produces the convenient excuse of 'I was going to post content but then the hammer came down'.
@Alice: I dunno how wrathie played. But what I do see is Chaore being generally reactive. He looks like he's voting out of convenience more than anything else. Why would you clear him today?Ugh, wrathie. wrathie had basically the same general playstyle:
This is a little meh, since Alice seemed to have no problem forming opinions on the other players.Amusingly enough, most of my opinions were based off the fact that a lot of people had made a post or two and said nothing, then jumped on the UD bandwagon. So it was an opinion due to lack of material, rather than an opinion due to information.
I guess I don't see Alice's argument that Nietz (Nietz #142) is reporter style here...I guess at best I'd say that he could explain why certain things are scummy...The only paragraph there that has analysis in it is the one on Chaore. Everything else does not. Also,
I think UD was dumb town, because Dumb Town is much more likely to do stupid shit than Dumb Scum. My reasoning comes from most other games I was in, where the dumb town is the one who posts a lot, says little/nothing, tunnels, and does a stupid gambit(regardless of whether they actually planned the gambit or if it was pulled out of their ass). Replacement breaks this, but I lean town anyways.And what has Dumb Scum done in similar games? As a general rule it involves things like active lurking, saying stupid shit, and in multiple cases, idiotic attempts at gambits.
I'm just going to say that this Day 1 really fucking sucks. People are building misguided cases on people with absolutely no hard evidence at this point.How does this differ from any other D1 in any other mafia game anywhere? Protip: D1 cases aren't going to be built on hard evidence because THERE IS NO HARD EVIDENCE TO GO AROUND YET.
What's to stop scum from communicating in the least likely place, right here in front of us?Or, y'know, PM/Quicktopic? Where they get absolutely zero suspicion cast on them for saying whatever the fuck they please? Do you seriously believe that statement you just made? I mean seriously, what the fuck.
Also, UK, I'm surprised that you find no fault with Sodium Chromate before his post#249 and Kanako before that same post, as up until then they were virtually identical in both levels of scumminess and reasons why they were scummy, i.e. I disagree with Serp that the Kanako template does not fit Sodium Formate simply because Sodium voted Zakeri instead of UD.
@DREAD THOMAS: Ooh, nice job at pointing out UK potentially setting up lynches. Definetly something to note and keep in mind, especially in future days.
@Pesco #293: um, there's a VERY GOOD JUSTIFICATION for Tom switching his vote back to Chaore in #292, and that's simply that Chaore just claimed Third Party. While not inheritly a bad thing, Third Parties are INTRINSICALLY Anti-Town and thus when you combine this with his general uselessness, this gives you sufficient justification to lynch him D1.
Someone needs to shop Suwako's hat onto Wakko Warner.(http://i294.photobucket.com/albums/mm114/Roukanken/suwakko.png)
Just sayin'.
Chaore pulled an interesting defense for RL'ing UK at the start if D1, (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php?topic=4654.msg221117#msg221117) if anyone remembers. (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php?topic=4654.msg221218#msg221218)What do you mean by RL'ing? Haven't heard that term. I vaguely get what you're driving at though.
Plus her 'taking UD's attack personally', and turning it into an argument that cost Town half the day and led to a ragequit.
What do you mean by RL'ing? Haven't heard that term. I vaguely get what you're driving at though.RL = Random Lynch. As good a tactic as any to start D1, but Chaore insisted that UK was for some reson a worse target than most.
but this does put a small amount of additional suspicion onto both Zakeri and UD.
but this does put a small amount of additional suspicion onto both Zakeri and UK.
Chaore pulled an interesting defense for RL'ing UK at the start if D1, if anyone remembers.
Plus her 'taking UD's attack personally', and turning it into an argument that cost Town half the day and led to a ragequit.
##Vote: UncertainKitten
I think it should be easy enough to read between the lines after we get some more alignment flips to see whether Sodium looks good or bad in the context of his posts today.
Chaore, what do you mean by bad voting?
Your recent post is basically me from past games. "I have no opinion on this guy" isn't going to slide. I'm one of those weirdos who thinks that a bad opinion is better than no opinion, even if it does come back to bite me in the ass.
I'm just going to say that this Day 1 really fucking sucks. People are building misguided cases on people with absolutely no hard evidence at this point.
Zakeri is looking like shit at this point. Not only were his points about UD terrible (as everyone knows) he hasn't even posted in a long time. I'm tempted to vote him but I want to see what he has to say about all of this. Still, it is NOT looking good.
Also, I'm guessing you're pissed off from having to read the 150ish UKUD posts.
(and stop mentioning that game =V We get it, you're the greatest)
Rou, at this point it actually doesn't look like you're going to be lynched this dayAnd he comments nothing useful about Chaore's situation. So much for it.
@Alice: The Pesco thing was that when I was first reading the thread, he say or asked stuff that happened to be crossing my mind as well, so I got a good first impression of him. Wasn't too pleased with how he played out the rest of the day, but that's kind of irrelevant now.
In the end I voted Chaore because he was more likely to be lynched if the wagon was kept on him, while diverting votes into 'nako at time might not be effective.
EBWOP: Kilga, can you fix my tags in my previous post?
Of all the reasons to vote me...you picked this, Rou?It's a good reason, IMO, and links you directly to scum. Sorry for not writing an essay on the subject and making my points simple.
Due to the speed that the Chaore wagon grew at and the fact that there was no real other wagon (I guess Kanako was the closest thing?), there was probably some scum on Chaore's wagon. I'll agree with everyone and say that Nietz looks the worst (consider me okay with a Nietz lynch as well) out of that group. I don't think Arashi looks good either for reasons Alice brought up and this makes me raise my eyebrow a bit. Not sure if it's a coincidence that Arashi happened to roll a 5 on the d20 (Chaore was 5) before deciding to roll the physically impossible die, but it feels a little weird to me.
Lots of people look bad after that flip, most notably UK and Kanako. I don't have anything to add to the case on Kanako atm. UK's issues stem from what Rou pointed out, liking that IIoA post that Chaore posted when she first read it (it's notable because there wasn't much pressure on Chaore yet, and then when there was she calls him out on it) and just generally seeming to think that that Chaore looked fine until there was pressure on him. Both look really bad, but I think UK looks worse.
What do you think of NEETz, Rou?Like I said, the case makes sense. He was quick on UD when the wagon was hot, then switched away when it died down and proceeded to do nothing with his vote. He was late on the wagon, so that gives him no credit. Still, I prefer the case on you, especially given your overblown debate with UD.
and Chaore doing a namedrop of a Townie intentionally in case he went downWould Chaore do this on Page 2, when no-one was facing any sizable threat whatsoever? Do we assume he had that sort of foresight, or that he panicked at the sight of a potential bandwagon on a teammate? The latter seems more likely to me.
Like I said, the case makes sense. He was quick on UD when the wagon was hot, then switched away when it died down and proceeded to do nothing with his vote. He was late on the wagon, so that gives him no credit. Still, I prefer the case on you, especially given your overblown debate with UD.
The one thing I think stands out to me for Nako is that (from my admittedly quick read) he was the only person to say 'Okay UK, you're overdoing this fight with UD, move on'. That gives me quite large Town vibes.
Explain why the debate is at all having anything to do with my scumminess.Wasting time, perhaps?
Read harder. I think several people have posted rather good guidelines on why 'Nako is far scummier than you are giving him credit for.Doesn't this case only really apply if every other wagon is Town? If, say, UK or Zak were scum it would make no sense. So either everyone else brought up D1 is clear, or this case is sorta weird. And I still take that 'calm the hell down' as very pro-Town.
Conversely, why is UD not scummy for staying in an argument with UK far, far longer than he should have? He was the person who started it in the first place...He is. Like I've said before, UD's actions were pretty horrific and there's nothing I can do to defend them without being hypocritical. Thus, as the adage goes, the best defense is a good offense.
Wasting time, perhaps?
2. In general I wouldn't take Unesco as proof of anything, mainly because lolhydra. Even so meta can be exploited, and she conveniently targets the easily-irritable newcomer.
He is. Like I've said before, UD's actions were pretty horrific and there's nothing I can do to defend them without being hypocritical. Thus, as the adage goes, the best defense is a good offense.
Doesn't this case only really apply if every other wagon is Town? If, say, UK or Zak were scum it would make no sense. So either everyone else brought up D1 is clear, or this case is sorta weird. And I still take that 'calm the hell down' as very pro-Town.
Zakeri: I doubt he's scum now, seeing as he's one of the first to vote Chaore, and second to call him 100% scum(first was Pesco). I would have no idea why scum would bus that early. Crazy scheme is possible, but Chaore wasn't really marked as a possible Day 1 lynch yet, until Zakeri supported Pesco's "U R SCUM". His certainty in that post was weird though, because it was barely 4 hours into the game. Whatever, there are other people
Then why aren't you guilty of the same?If you're meaning UD, then it's a little bit awkward, because yeah he's guilty. Although now that's he's Rou it can't be reaaaly applied to it. I don't know how to put it in words, it's like, he's at fault, but he didn't do it... something like that.
It's probably the worst reason out of all the passable ones, Rou. But whatever. I can't really argue anything from yesterday. I was unlucky. Hence why I'm trying to find the real scum 'fore I get mislynched.This strikes me a little of that "subliminal message" or "cheerleading" as they're calling it now. Not enough to definitely point my finger or changing my vote, but I'm counting.
What do you think of NEETz, Rou?
Then why aren't you guilty of the same?Because I'm not basing cases on personal agendas.
Here we go, we got something. Elaborate on where my case is wrong/weird?My point is 'why did he stay away from Chaore and only Chaore'? In terms of him being scum, it would only make sense if, well, everyone else he voted was Town. That's myself, you, and (to an extent since he got FoSd and generally dissed by him) Zakeri.
And you don't find his sudden switch to you/UD after I say a couple things questioning what he meant odd at all?
I take what I said earlier back, rereading his posts it seems to be adequate reason to vote him, even for pressure.This reads as noob Town, not stopping to consider how he'd look going through a total flipflop because he's too busy hunting.
Everyone, vote for UK. She's a noble soul, so that even if she's Town, she'll happily die for the sake of providing information against the Scum menace.
And if she is scum, lynch lynch lynch!
You really can tell UD is new at this. Its NEVER good to lose a townie. Its less voting power, and possibly a role lost.Not only does it not have a clear implication that UK might be Chaore's buddy, how the hell does he know how "dangerous" UK is as Scum? He's a goddamn noob, who has never seen UK's Scum playstyle even IF he is Scumbuddies with her in this game. It's plausible he read an MS game, but that still does not make any sense as to why he'd state that.
The only good time a townie is lost is when well, they're not worth keeping even if they're a townie.
That said, UK isn't dangerous enough as scum to warrant that.
I was afraid I'd get a condescending starter.Unfortunately, the Diabeetus quote from The Even More Most Shameful Thing In The World (http://"http://www.viddler.com/explore/retsu/videos/2") of "is this in English or is this in Hieroglyphics? I can't really tell" applies here yet again. If anyone can get anything useful out of this post, then, well, yeah. However, it seems to be worthless.
I'll address what I meant. Its not that there is no point, If she is scum, There is obviously a point. However, She can NOT be scum. The relative gain from her being taken out as scum seems to me to be less than the general worth of a townie. I didn't say 'If shes scum, No reason to kill her anyway'. I said 'Given we don't know if she is scum, there really are better targets for lynching.' Its opportunity cost.
whereas UD complains that there's not enough said in that post about Chaore.
whereas UK complains that there's not enough said in that post about Chaore.
If you're meaning UD, then it's a little bit awkward, because yeah he's guilty. Although now that's he's Rou it can't be reaaaly applied to it. I don't know how to put it in words, it's like, he's at fault, but he didn't do it... something like that.
If you do mean Rou, though, then I'd like to hear about it.
Because I'm not basing cases on personal agendas.
Finally did that UK reread. First off, what's interesting to note is that it's quite possible the conflict/argument was actually started by UK, as she is the first to vote for UD in Post#32, to which UD responds with predictable levels of vitriol.
However, @UK #149: what EXACTLY did you like about Chaore's post#148? It is basically completely worthless reporter-style nonsense. All it does is attempt to implicate UD, and is followed with a subsequent vote for UD.
I'm STILL worried that UK called NEETz's post#142's UD vote as "alright", considering that his logic in that post literally is "UD is playing extremely poorly and will get himself lynched anyway so welp I might as well join this here bandwagon, derp-a-derp internet derp derp", and that there's more in that post about Chaore than UD, whereas UD complains that there's not enough said in that post about Chaore.
#266 is kind of disconcerting, admitting you "just skimmed the last couple posts" (including those for which you voted for Kanako over Chaore, as Kanako only started contributing on Page 8 ffs) to vote for someone else over "the most questionable UD wagoner", who was also likely progressing into the day's lynch.
My point is 'why did he stay away from Chaore and only Chaore'? In terms of him being scum, it would only make sense if, well, everyone else he voted was Town. That's myself, you, and (to an extent since he got FoSd and generally dissed by him) Zakeri.
This reads as noob Town, not stopping to consider how he'd look going through a total flipflop because he's too busy hunting.
In other news, OKAY SERIOUSLY ZAK YOU CAN TALK NOW.
UK: At the moment the thing that makes her seem perhaps scummy is basically the fact that she seemed to be, protected by Chaore to an extent as he named her as clearly being town. Beyond that, her own behavior hasn't been overly scummy as her argument with UD really seems genuine to me based on their relationship and thus I wouldn't put it down as an attempt to waste our time.
This reads as noob Town, not stopping to consider how he'd look going through a total flipflop because he's too busy hunting.Except... he's really not (too busy hunting nor, as UK pointed out in 352, particularly noob). Rou's doing a lot of defending everyone but UK. The questioning of UK could likely be due to relatively sparse activity from everyone else, but I've still seen very little from him looking back and analyzing what happened on D1 before he replaced in.
Thus, as the adage goes, the best defense is a good offense.The thing here is, wouldn't a good offense here be a good scumhunt? This smells fishy, I think I'm actually going to ##Vote: Rou, at least for the time being.
In the end I voted Chaore because he was more likely to be lynched if the wagon was kept on him, while diverting votes into 'nako at time might not be effective.
@Alice: Also the UD(rou!)/UK team concept is also stupid. Think. UD *quits* because arguments started by his buddy are *too much pressure*? The whole idea feels farcial (picture the three of them as scumbuddies for extra hilarity.)There's a reason I pegged it as "unlikely" in the end, y'know...
why is Jam okay
why is Nietz 'interesting' that's a non-value word
what is that rationale for voting Rou
[Serp] seems to be laying low, though whether as scum trying to evade attention, or just IRL-busy or something, *shrug*.
My point is 'why did [Kanako] stay away from Chaore and only Chaore'? In terms of him being scum, it would only make sense if, well, everyone else he voted was Town. That's myself, you, and (to an extent since he got FoSd and generally dissed by him) Zakeri.
I'm between UD and Chaore, but UD is the worst offender, and I seriously think he will get himslef lynched lynched sooner or later anyway.Early on Nietz angled towards UD, suggesting that Chaore should be allowed to live on because he'd be no threat and would get himself lynched.
I don't feel like reading and rereading all this stuff right now (especially the Mafiatroid walls). Here's a couple of stuff that caught my attention for now.Train on Chaore builds. Nietz provides vague useless summaries, then unvotes without really doing anything. Obviously trying to maintain a low profile in light of the imminent doom of his scumbuddy Chaore (whom he previously supported).
[Vague summaries omitted]
Basically, not much new from me, I admit. Just ##Unvote for now.
Alright, I see the point against 'nako. His actions do have all the look of trying to slip an easy vote in the wagon of the hour. Could be, as someone mentioned, a spineless town, but could even more easily be a spineless scum.Chaore is already doomed by this point, but he still makes a show of input, jumping on the Chaore train for town cred but leaving open the option of switching to a Kanako train (in case his scumbuddy gets off the hook somehow).
Chaore doesn't look any better for me, in fact worse. Looks too much like cornered scum, trying find any way out.
Right now these are the only ones I feel like voting, and I'm very indecisive at that. Chaore is the leading wagon right, but Kanako still can be worked as an alternative.
I'm still going with ##Vote Chaore since it was my intention before, we can see about Kanako later.
Well, with Chaore dead, next on the line is Kanako.Active scumhunting fuck yeah! Oh wait..
Kanako who was just voting into the popular wagons completely avoided Chaore's. And Charo who was desperately trying to take the pressure off him and into someone else didn't consider Kanako, even when he was shaping up as a possible alternative.Maybe you could show some actual evidence, links, anything? Your accusations are based on vague statements. This is a perfect way for scum to avoid responsibility for a vote, whilst looking like they're doing something.
So it's basically ##Vote Kanako.
I voted Chaore because he was more likely to be lynched if the wagon was kept on him, while diverting votes into 'nako at time might not be effective.See above on why this is incredibly scummy.
You were UD. UD did. No matter how much you say "He was indefensible, now this is why I'm incorrectly calling UK scum"Points for subliminally suggesting that 'I'm wrong with this lynch and I know it'.
Kana has played enough games to know better. And you know this.No, actually. No I don't.
I'm seeing a lot of wordswordsUKwords and not much hunting - more appearance of doing something than actual doing something.So the namedrop (which, whatever Alice says, I still think is valid) isn't hunting? The cheerleading of the case? Responding to UD's personal attacks with equal rage?
Not only does it not have a clear implication that UK might be Chaore's buddy, how the hell does he know how "dangerous" UK is as Scum?And that is exactly my point.
I do not think Kanako/Nietz a likely scumpair makes anyway, owing to Nietz's swift vote for Kanako early today before the train on him really picked up. Having lost one buddy on day 1, scum immediately go for a second bus straight away? Both look individually pretty awful, yes, but this doesn't really fit together.
Allow me to ask how I should read this? As "Nietz looks the worst out of all the players", or "Nietz looks the worst out of the players on the wagon"?
See, this would be good, except one thing. You never do really explain why I look worse than Kanako. I know I look terrible but I can't buy for even 3 seconds Kanako doesn't look worse. At least Rou gave an (albeit shitty) reason.
I also disagree with Alice. Chaore was suprisingly honest for scum (admitting that he was only doing stuff to prevent him from looking bad? Admitting that he wasn't switching because he couldn't justify it?). Saying that UK wasn't a good lynch beacuse she wasn't dangerous as scum...right after she was attacked by UD...right after he said that it was never a goood idea to lose a townie. Yeah, not what I would expect from someone that thinks UK shouldn't be lynched because she might be/is town.It's the phrasing that bothers me. "UK isn't dangerous enough as Scum to justify that". How would he know? He's never played a mafia game before, here OR on MS OR really anywhere as far as I know!
Points for subliminally suggesting that 'I'm wrong with this lynch and I know it'.
No, actually. No I don't.
@Arashi: I'm not going to go over D1 with a fine-tooth comb. There's pretty much nothing to look for. It's Day 1.
a) In the end it produces confusion, not solutions
b) It has a habit of reducing me to a babbling wreck?
tl;dr - If it works for Kilga, it works for me.
And that is exactly my point.
He blatantly steps in to defend UK with an absolutely ridiculous defense. Panicking noob, from where I'm standing.
Most of it has to do with timing. I brought up the big things in my little summery. No pressure on Chaore? He looks okay. Pressure on Chaore? Oh noes, he's actually looking pretty bad! ...For the same things I said he looked okay for earlier! And then there was the timing of your Kanako vote. Chaore was coming under pressure and it looked like a few people were suspicious of her. It seemed like an excellent time to try to get a counter wagon going, and Kanako looked like a pretty good target for that.
I also disagree with Alice. Chaore was suprisingly honest for scum (admitting that he was only doing stuff to prevent him from looking bad? Admitting that he wasn't switching because he couldn't justify it?). Saying that UK wasn't a good lynch beacuse she wasn't dangerous as scum...right after she was attacked by UD...right after he said that it was never a goood idea to lose a townie. Yeah, not what I would expect from someone that thinks UK shouldn't be lynched because she might be/is town.
Then we get to that horribad IIoA post that you liked for some reason. He calls you scum for...I dunno. I seriously can't even tell what he's trying to say there. Then we get to this post where he calls you town because you are...probably not scum with Pesco and you didn't attack him. I'll just say that I agree with the logic that some people are using on Zak. It looked like he was trying to connect you to a random townie.
Kanako had the stuff that was brought up against him; I see no need to repeat all that. I agree, he looks really bad as well. The big difference for me was that he stuck with that nuetral read and didn't pull a 360 on what he said about Chaore's posts. Looking at the motivations between the two of you (looking at both town and scum motivations here) it's possible that Kanako was just wrong. That happens sometimes. It is also possible that your timing is just a coincidence. But when I looked at the potential motivations between you and Kanako I thought that what I saw from you was more likely to come from scum.
It's the phrasing that bothers me. "UK isn't dangerous enough as Scum to justify that". How would he know? He's never played a mafia game before, here OR on MS OR really anywhere as far as I know!
Query for Alice.
What exactly do you hope to gain from Kanako's (likely inevitable) lynch? Can you provide examples for each flip scenario?
It's the phrasing that bothers me. "UK isn't dangerous enough as Scum to justify that". How would he know? He's never played a mafia game before, here OR on MS OR really anywhere as far as I know!
Links please. I want links to the posts you cite so I can check them against the most recent votecount. As I said, I basically was happy with ANYTHING out of Cha that would help me read him. Which apparently didn't work out too well. Course, if Kanako flips scum I'll be rather absolved, I think. But yeah, I can't really go further until I check against vote counts.
Yet he claims survivor. Honestly, were I scum with him, I'd have told him a HELL of a lot better fakeclaim than survivor. Course, that is WIFOM. Still though. I don't think we can trust in Cha's honesty as much as you'd like. You know, because he's scum
Besides the hilarious "pulled a 360", (assumably this was a mistake and you meant 180, though then again you could actually mean 360), this part of your post kinda works against your case and is subtly protecting Kanako.
Why can't I "just be wrong" as well? Or hell, even half right, since I did end with him as "Scum but not as likely scum as Kanako"
I actually want to answer this myself, if you'd like to ask, Edible. I won't answer now since you asked someone else though.
You also didn't post again until several hours after he claimed (it was like 8 hours iirc), so I'm just assuming you weren't on when he claimed.
I think you are more likely to be scum, you asked me why I thought this was true so I answered with why Kanako was more likely to be town than you. I do look at motivations for both town and scum when I read people. After all, if it were enough to look for scummy things townies woudln't get lynched.
It's possible, but Kanako didn't completely change his mind on his Chaore read when he came under pressure like you did. Overall, I consider what you did as far more likely to come from scum than what Kanako did.
Nothing preventing you from doing so. Multiple people have expressed interest in Kanako's lynch, I'm open to multiple people answering what they hope to get out of it.
I'm chiefly interested because I'm not nearly as sold on Scumkanako as I am on Scumnietz, and if we choose to bring down Kanako instead, I'd like to hear what the specific potential gain is (aside from the chance of flipping scum).
@Rou: I'm not taking random remarks made during the early voting phase as proof of anything. It is the road to ruin.I'm not seeing it as random. It was Chaore's first serious point for the whole day, and moreso it was a defense. I find it difficult to think he'd panic and throw a defense on a Townie for no reason as soon as D1 began.
But you've been in a fair amount of games with Kana if memory serves me well.[zomgmeta]And I remember him as not exactly being the best of players.[/zomgmeta]
convenient excuse, really. "I'm not going to go over the day and look for connections with a flipped scum since that might lead to someone who's not UK"- I did read over the day, which let me see Chaore's first day connection to you. So this point is moot.
Problem is, Kilga actually catches scum. Further, Kilga actually reads D1 overnight, especially in light of a scum flip. I will agree that b. is a good reason not to take things too seriously, but there's a difference between not looking at every slip and not doing cursory analysis of the other cases because you really want someone's lynch.I have read over D1. I have in particular read through Chaore's posts. I know full well that if I look hard enough I could potentially produce cases against everyone, so I don't for the sake of being clear and avoiding confusion.
[zomgmeta]And I remember him as not exactly being the best of players.[/zomgmeta]
- I did read over the day, which let me see Chaore's first day connection to you. So this point is moot.
- If I was so intent on lynching you why did I make no effort to accuse you D1?
I have read over D1. I have in particular read through Chaore's posts. I know full well that if I look hard enough I could potentially produce cases against everyone, so I don't for the sake of being clear and avoiding confusion.
UK: I am not a lyncher.
I guess what I want at this point is "How am I more scum motivated than Kanako?"
I'll be honest. I don't see Kanako as a viable counter wagon for Cha. Even is suspicion was expressed by Carth and Alice, they never followed through. It wasn't going to work.
Well, also that my case on Kanako was stronger than the one on Cha, but yeah.
Sorry, but it seems I'm not finding neither time nor will to keep up on this game, much less properly participate. So I'm asking for replacement if possible. (And if not, just hammer away anyway.)
OTL
I disagree. I don't even get why you're using this as a point.
3.) The timing of your vote on Kanako is awkward.
He wasn't. But he's not a noob.If you never advance beyond beying a noob, you're a noob no matter how many games you've played. The question is not 'is this his first game?' as much as 'is he still as bad as I remember him being?'.
Anyway, Cha is connected to more people than just me. It's obvious you are tunneling.For only making one clear case rather than trying to make 5 at once and as such being confusing and contradictory? Making multiple cases and being unable to choose between them has been my downfall in recent games. And in addition I honestly feel the case against you is that good.
Because it's um...relevant? Why would I vote the person with the weaker case on them? That's just retarded?
Well, also that my case on Kanako was stronger than the one on Cha, but yeah.has to do with this:
c'est la vie. You're at least half wrong. I can't really counter it thoughOr this
(That's another one, btw )
I'll be honest. I don't see Kanako as a viable counter wagon for Cha. Even is suspicion was expressed by Carth and Alice, they never followed through. It wasn't going to work.
Cha was basically a counterwagon against UD. I think you should look at that aspect, and regard Kanako and myself's actions concerning that.
It's possible, but Kanako didn't completely change his mind on his Chaore read when he came under pressure like you did. Overall, I consider what you did as far more likely to come from scum than what Kanako did.
Why is it awkward?
I think it's likey that scum would at least try to form one. Combined with the fact that you voted for Kanako (whom two people that were on that Chaore wagon expressed suspicion of and was a pretty easy target if town) when Chaore was coming under pressure and only had four votes (enough that there was pressure , not enough that there was no hope for a counter wagon) it looks very suspicious.
I disagree with your assessment of the Cha situation at that point. I do not think Kanako was a viable counter wagon, and one could have come up with a much better one. Sodium or NEETz seemed to be getting enough flack as to make more sense.
I don't know which game you're reading, but Kanako was getting more flak than both of them in the one that I was reading. The only person that really cared about Sodium was Alice. The only person that really cared about Nietz were Tom and Keregis. Every other opinion of him I saw was just waffly.
If you never advance beyond beying a noob, you're a noob no matter how many games you've played. The question is not 'is this his first game?' as much as 'is he still as bad as I remember him being?'.
For only making one clear case rather than trying to make 5 at once and as such being confusing and contradictory? Making multiple cases and being unable to choose between them has been my downfall in recent games. And in addition I honestly feel the case against you is that good.
He wasn't THIS bad.Not from what I recall, but I suppose at best this is a matter of YMMV.
This discussion clearly isn't getting anywhere. I will raise a question, though - if UK herself is willing to admit 'the case being made against me is valid', why does no-one else seem to agree?
Meanwhile, contributions from not myself, UK or K4U would be appreciated. Especially contributions from a certain onbashira-wielding goddess.
##Request ReplacementI get the feeling this is the last time we run a 17-player game. T_T
@UK: I will point out, though, that Lyncher wasn't on the list in the signups of potential roles, so he's 100% in the clear on that.
I doubt Kilga can find two replacements, even if he can find one when we've had one already. If they don't end up being modkills, I'd be willing to hammer on either to get them gone like they want to be.
@Nietz: sigh...
@Kanako: sigh...
@UK: There is a list of roles. Lyncher isn't on them. Why did you even think this?
@Rou: I'm not asking for a fine-toothed comb. I'd like to see something, anything at all about anyone who's not UK, even just one-line reports.Fine.
I already talked about UK. Your case on her is stupid and due to circumstances and earlier actions I think she's town.And yet UK herself admits the points against her are viable. Does this mean she's giving up too easily, or you're not giving the case enough credit?
I think I know, but I'll let them answer.Hell, doesn't this statement set off alarm bells in anyone else's head? She's basically asking other people to produce her defense for her. If that isn't anti-Town I don't know what is.
Considering Geisterwand means "Ghost-Wound" or "Spirit-Wound" and is probably also the name of some powerful magical attack in RKS, and also considering that Edible just stated that he dayvigged Kanako as well, yes, that was a dayvigging of Kanako :P
@Edible: why Kanako over NEETz? NEETz was more Scummy than Kanako imho.
Considering Geisterwand means "Ghost-Wound" or "Spirit-Wound" and is probably also the name of some powerful magical attack in RKS, and also considering that Edible just stated that he dayvigged Kanako as well, yes, that was a dayvigging of Kanako :PGeisterwand is Schwer-Muta's special attack, yes. Though I remember it being a barrier more than a weapon...then again that might be me looking too far into it. Waiting for a mod to speak up...>_>
Overly Elaborate Trap.Oh god why did you mention that the flashbacks oh god it hurts (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MZvvENWPzbo)
EBWOP:Hell, doesn't this statement set off alarm bells in anyone else's head? She's basically asking other people to produce her defense for her. If that isn't anti-Town I don't know what is.
if UK herself is willing to admit 'the case being made against me is valid', why does no-one else seem to agree?
Simple. I mentioned this earlier, but there's almost no chance UD/Rou is scum if Chaore flipped red.
And yes, I just dayvigged Kanako. Fuck replacements.
And yet UK herself admits the points against her are viable. Does this mean she's giving up too easily, or you're not giving the case enough credit?
See previous statement about "We had better lynch Nietz today".
Why should I answer that? I mean, I can't even see where the hell you came up with that last line given this exchange.I read it as saying 'there's something wrong with the case, but I'll let someone else point it out rather than do it myself'. Saying 'there's a reason people are ignoring the sensible points being made' is an oxymoron.
I said that K4U's points against me were viable.Where did I specify I meant my points exactly? Is it a crime for me not to produce an entire case in painstaking (and therefore incredibly boring) detail?
I'm going to get an aneurysm if I keep responding to the misreps Rou throws at me. Since he's still likely town I think I will make good on just ignoring any rehashes of the old arguments against me by him. It's liable to just piss him and I off.AtE, backing off.
I read it as saying 'there's something wrong with the case, but I'll let someone else point it out rather than do it myself'. Saying 'there's a reason people are ignoring the sensible points being made' is an oxymoron.
AtE, backing off.
Regardless, I'll accept that we don't have much to work with until the mods show up. :|
Where did I specify I meant my points exactly? Is it a crime for me not to produce an entire case in painstaking (and therefore incredibly boring) detail?
It's already been pointed out that your points are ass. By several people. We've belabored this forever.And, well, I don't agree. I think the namedrop early D1 has more weight than people are willing to give it credit for, and I won't budge on that opinion.
And, well, I don't agree. I think the namedrop early D1 has more weight than people are willing to give it credit for, and I won't budge on that opinion.
And as for K4U's case? Are you giving up too early, or are people deliberately ignoring self-admitted scummy mistakes? Because that's the sort of behaviour I could only imagine of scum with regards to buddies, myself.
And if Kana somehow flips town? What of me and Serp, among other players?
I don't think I'm being ignored, so much as there are bigger fish to fry.
Answering your question with a statement you just made. There are too many ifs about several players until we know Kanako's and Nietz's alignments. It'll be easier to sort shit out after that.
UK: why would you ever even consider voting yourself? That is an intrinsically Anti-Town action and makes me even more unnerved about you.
Repeating the question - do we want to wait a little longer on a hammer?
I want to smack Edible for killing Kanako instead of Nietz there. No objection to hammering now, in any case.
I admit that I'm kinda worried by UK's self-depreciating streak here. It's like.. a panic attack off two votes? I still have heaps of trouble reconciling 'UK scum' with the UD train action, though.
UK you were slightly suspicious and I've been keeping track of what they've been saying as much as possible through the time I've spent reading this over.
If you want to live in any way through the next day you'd best try to write something about it. Saying you're wanting to vote for yourself isn't really going to help you. It does nothing, and I honestly don't know why you even would bother to say it.
I what you said in terms of defending yourself. I was just saying the addition of voting for yourself was kind of silly and unnecessary.
I suppose it's not a huge deal though...
Might as well just wait until the now basically already done hammer occurs.
UK: Protip: Declaring how you're going to die isn't actually going to make you do more stuff. You could do more stuff while not making yourself to be a sacrifice of some stupid sort.
. Also, UK's handling of the whole thing is odd, because a good portion of her defence is "I cannot counter this case, so I'm now going to make vague allusions to how I'm going to DO MORE HUNTING BEFORE I DIE, YEAH!". I did not see moar huntan.
I agree that UK really shouldn't be hunting NOW, but the mention of voting herself was nonetheless unnecessary.
As I said, we might as well just wait for Nietz's flip now...
Yes yes, we've all admitted the "You know, I'm half tempted to vote myself" post was unnecessary. Belaboring it is kinda pointless. You know, sorta like the discussion I ended up getting into with Rou.I know. I was just responding to your mention of how you think we might want you to be scumhunting instead of saying it.
I know. I was just responding to your mention of how you think we might want you to be scumhunting instead of saying it.
EBWOP: If there is not a phase change in the next 15 minutes I am getting some goddamn sleep. It's 4am right now. -_-;
The key issue here is that while Serpentarius is suspicious for trying to start a secondary wagon on a sitting duck target late in the day when the primary wagon is a Scum wagon, on the other hand Kanako is being terrible, providing garbage posts with no content, and always making excuses with promises for actual content later that never winds up manifesting itsself. I'm fairly certain that one of these is Scum, and that they're not BOTH Scum, but I'm not sure which of them is the Scum at the moment. Nietz is higher-priority right now anyway for me.
Everyone asking to be replaced can kiss my ass. I hate replacements.
Let's go, Mr. Zeppy.
##Geisterwand: Kanako
We had better lynch Nietz after this.
You probably didn't bother to read my wall.I was in a rush to get my vote out before I got hauled to bed, and on top of that your wall cut me. Reading over I see that we seem to at least share opinions on Serp and Sodium.
Rou, is there any explanation you can share for this?There's an explanation, but I don't think it needs to be given right this minute.
You know, I'm about ready to vote myself at this point.
Commenting on how essentially hopeless my situation is now. I'm rather tied to Cha, my attacks on Kanako were wrong, and make me look worse.
I'm painfully aware of how bad I look. As I thought I said earlier, when I saw Chaore's flip, I went into today expecting my lynch. The fact it didn't happen is good, but I don't think I'll survive this game. I will approach tomorrow assuming I'll be lynched. But I won't be a useless stump. I will produce content as long as you'll let me live. I figure that's the best I can do.
Kanako's my favored lynch right now, followed by UD.
I'm going to get an aneurysm if I keep responding to the misreps Rou throws at me. Since he's still likely town I think I will make good on just ignoring any rehashes of the old arguments against me by him. It's liable to just piss him and I off.
You know, I'm about ready to vote myself at this point.If this is not anti-town, I do not know what it is, really.
The wall you've posted is...surprisingly coherent given our earlier squabbling. Like I said, I'm looking awkwardly at Serp and Sodium given their efforts to turn the lynch into a two-Townie-race. Arashi is third on my list, though, for trying to
a) Press an even MORE useless three-horse-race - Nietz, Kanako and myself
b) In doing so, leave her vote well well away from the rising wagons.
I think Tom worked too hard to connect himself to a Nietz lynch, IMO. Seems more Townie to me.
So a great big wall of text that reads like a big summary (UK). Sure there's a couple of insights (I agree with the bits on Sodium somewhat), but I'm sick of all this reporter-style posting (ironically what UK attacked Sodium for doing).
It's already been pointed out as completely unnecessary, but it's also a bullshit appeal to emotion. "Woe is me, I'm going to die, but I'll give you all this useful advice which you must heed because I will flip town! I'm such a martyr!"
Also, the quick switch from DeadKanako to 'FastHammerNietzNow' is a bit weird, and reads like an attempt to cut off conversation with hammer before attention can be brought upon those pushing for Kanako.
Arashi: Rou's meta is the tunneling you see him doing right now. lolmeta, but it's probably the reason why no one else really makes a big deal about it.
Anyway, I'll wait for a post for Kerigis that reflects the current game state. Unless that was supposed to do it.
Alright... gonna post what I was supposed to post before Kilga closed the posting.(emphasis mine) and
Proper reading after the test.
This (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php?topic=4654.msg221423#msg221423) um...is terrible. I love how he clears UD...FOR THE SAME REASON ZAK DID...and then votes zak...FOR CLEARING UD!(emphasis mine, again) also looks like misrep to me, and is probably more important than the above. Regardless of whether Sodium's "so amazingly dumb he has to be town" reasoning is any good or not, it's distinctly different from Zak's reasoning of "UD is pro-town because he's using confusion starting discussion".
Misrep.
Post was explicitly not meant to reflect current game state. It's not a great post anyway (no mention of UK, but then "for the reasons above"?), though.
(emphasis mine, again) also looks like misrep to me, and is probably more important than the above. Regardless of whether Sodium's "so amazingly dumb he has to be town" reasoning is any good or not, it's distinctly different from Zak's reasoning of "UD is pro-town because he's using confusion starting discussion".
Elaborate. I see nothing regarding today, or the entire situation with Kanako and Nietz.There's not really much of any "today" to regard yet, it seems like. Mostly you and Rou, with some near-useless fluff from Keri and Jam, "Serp's not worth mentioning but I'll mention him" from Rat, and a couple callouts on you from Tom (I've already said I mildly disagree with his remark on the actual content of the wall, but he's right on the AtE).
sarcastically ask
Also not misrep. The "Gambit starter badge" and the "protown for starting discussion thing" ARE THE EXACT SAME THING
Ok, despite your blatant misunderstandings of what I was saying, maybe I please ask how I somehow come out scummier than Sodium, despite you basically acknowledging he's terrible?
Also, what do you think of Serp? I notice you very much avoided him, although he does appear to be the current counterwagon to me.
I dunno, I read it as Sodium saying "too dumb to be scum" (especially given 249) vs. Zakeri saying "not dumb at all, productive", which are quite definitely opposites.
I'd rate you up
in the people we need to look at in the "false dilemma" of 'nako vs. Nietz that Rou mentioned in 452, and even if I do agree with the end result you're putting up on Sodium, I still don't really like some the reasoning.
You... NK on the person with the best case on you, I don't think makes you looks good (but that could be scum trying to make you look bad, which starts turning into WIFOM).
This from Sodium reads badly. It's some summary, some clearing of people who have flipped town, some poking a hornets nest but running away. Why did you say that about Carth if you weren't planning to follow up?Which one? The cool misrep of Carth by Chaore, or that part where I tried to answer Carth's question to Rou because it was pretty relevant to me, considering I was also voting Zak at that time.
this is terrible from the first line. Bragging much? Dear God, why the hell would you ever point out the Pesco NK like that?hurr durr. Good Job attacking me on something that wasn't supposed to be serious. It was basically "wait, what? A Pesco NK? Oh man, that's hilarious because it's really uncommon".
Which one? The cool misrep of Carth by Chaore, or that part where I tried to answer Carth's question to Rou because it was pretty relevant to me, considering I was also voting Zak at that time.
hurr durr. Good Job attacking me on something that wasn't supposed to be serious. It was basically "wait, what? A Pesco NK? Oh man, that's hilarious because it's really uncommon".
Just because me and Zak had the same basis for an opinion doesn't mean anything. It'd be like saying two people who read a book, have differing opinions, but liked the book for said differing opinions are the same. Sure, but only on the surface.
Arashi, I believe that Rou was the one who said the false dilemma stuff. To Rou, where the hell did I do that?340. (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php?topic=4654.msg224473#msg224473)
Kanako and Nietz for scum.On that note, giving probtowns publically unless they're going undersuspicion is a bad idea to begin with, as it lets scum know who they shouldn't bother accusing and just shoot. Given that one of your probtowns got hit...>_>
Carth, Kitten4u, Rou and bofh are probtown.
Alice is still the most Towny Pro-Town Townie to ever Town (on the very small chance he's not, he's doing a damned good job of faking it).Arashi, as we can see, is also very guilty of this. T_T
this is terrible from the first line. Bragging much? Dear God, why the hell would you ever point out the Pesco NK like that?
But why did you need to bring it up in the first place? The idea is you don't do it on purpose, that it's a scum slip.Uh, think you're pressing him a little hard for what's probably a joke...? Seems a little like you're scraping the barrel here...
Uh, think you're pressing him a little hard for what's probably a joke...? Seems a little like you're scraping the barrel here...
Excuse me for actually covering everything I found scummy, as opposed to trying to float on one or two points.Excuse me for not making an effort to memorise everything you said in the wall because HOLY CRAP you talk so much. Why does every case in this game need to be fully defined, explained, referenced and signed in triplicate? :|
Excuse me for not making an effort to memorise everything you said in the wall because HOLY CRAP you talk so much. Why does every case in this game need to be fully defined, explained, referenced and signed in triplicate? :|
As good a player as he is, Alice is also bad at this, I'll note. T_T
Finally, the entire game is about studying the other players. That's part of the fun.My last point: Observing and studying are two different things. You observe an animal at a zoo for fun. You study it as a job.
I'm sorry to everyone, you all deserve so much better than another player flaking out on you, but I really don't think I can do this. I realized way early on that I don't actually enjoy this, but I'd planned to see it through no matter what 'cause I signed up to play and it's not fair to everyone else when people take the easy way out and quit.I kind of feel like this too.
and the pressure to produce (not even the pressure of trying to make a decent case! the pressure to make any case at all, period) was actually making me feel mildly sicker, even though I know full well it's just a game and I shouldn't be stressing over it at all.This here. This is quite clearly a sign that something isn't right.
I don't know what to do at this point.
Rat, Serp, Alice, Tom and Roukan can all vouch for him as a quality player, in case any of the rest of you are curious.I admit I had to look back to RPGDL to remember who Excal was. (It was AnonyMafia, that's my excuse.) -_-;
PS: Roukan, which game were you in?Anonymouth Animafia, good thir.
(Grollthwert doethn't have the thame ring to it...)
Stop with the bad formatting, I tire of cleaning your litterbox. >_>
So, why the Ad Hom thing? Because I generally find how people react to those to be a good sign of where there's scum. Ad Homs are a great way to not only side-track discussion, but used well they are also a good way to reduce someone to sputtering rage making them look like an idiot and more than a little scummy. And, Rat's one of the people I recall using that trick on Ciato before she snapped and stopped playing, and people started twigging onto it. (I was saddened when scum stopped doing that. Meant finding scum was harder than looking at who baited Ciato) Granted, my memory could be wrong, but even if it is, Rat only gives himself away in small details, and this is one that makes alarm bells ring.
and regardless of her apparent change of heart today
If you mean me no longer saying I should be lynched, I still am.This doesn't follow. All Townies should see their lives as useful, because every day Town mislynch is a day closer to a scum win. The fact you're still okay with getting lynched does not come across as Townie.
I want to see posts from Serp, Sodium and possibly Arashi before I decide what to do with my vote. For now UK still seems a solid choice (and I'm uncertain as to whether or not we can really afford to let her live given the last two days...)
b) The third person is bad because she tried to find something beyond those two people.The problem I had with that is that, well, I know for a fact that her third option was a) probably never going to make it as a wagon, and b) was yet another Townie. This was especially notable given she declared Kanako to be anti-town at best and voted me anyway. (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php?topic=4654.msg224760#msg224760) It came across to me as clumsy distancing.
I could buy UD/UK as being pointless antagonism. Everyone seems to expect it from them. But you? All signs point to this is odd. Especially when you also seem to feel a need to answer every post, even when there's nothing new to add.Ask people around. My history with UK is not exactly flawless, either. >_>
This doesn't follow. All Townies should see their lives as useful, because every day Town mislynch is a day closer to a scum win. The fact you're still okay with getting lynched does not come across as Townie.
I suspect this brings out UK, who is... very notable. And who is also throwing my meta out of whack. I mean, the jumping on everything, the please kill me now dramatics, the accepting an argument against her and delaying scumhunting as long as she can coupled with her apparent ability to fill this topic with pointless WoT spams to defend intricately, point by point, against every half argument levelled against her? Makes me want to lynch her even without the issue of potentially being tied to a few different people.
But my gut says flailing Town. So... she's going to get a serious reread. I want to make sure there's something there before I follow, whether it's just a good enough suspicion and some serious leads, or a solid suspicion.
To start with, let's go with Rat. I've talked about his Day 1. The push for ending the day is vintage Rat and a complete null tell, as well as his Day 2 stuff scanning decently. Then again, it's Rat, I'll be suspecting him until he's cleared by a flipped cop with God confirmed sanity, even if he has personally led the hunt on all but one of the scum team.
and tends to respond to points made against his case no matter whatWait, what? The alternative is 'ignoring an argument against you and thus letting your case be written off as flawed'. Not to mention you were guilty of this when it came to the Sodium d2 starter.
Ok, how about I ask you this, Rou. What do I gain, as scum, by admitting that my lynch is not a bad one? Now, what do I gain, as town, by admitting that my lynch is not a bad one? If I get any gain on EITHER axis, which once is greater?It's AtE. Scum!UK could be trying to write herself off as a tragic Townie who managed to end up on the wrong wagon and died despite being completely innocent. You could be making us too guilty to lynch you.
At best, my agreement with my lynch is anti town. I don't see how a case can be made for it to be scummy.Scummy, anti-town, they're the same in the essence that Town wants to lynch them. I don't see how this helps your case in the slightest.
Wait, what? The alternative is 'ignoring an argument against you and thus letting your case be written off as flawed'. Not to mention you were guilty of this when it came to the Sodium d2 starter.
It's AtE. Scum!UK could be trying to write herself off as a tragic Townie who managed to end up on the wrong wagon and died despite being completely innocent. You could be making us too guilty to lynch you.
Scummy, anti-town, they're the same in the essence that Town wants to lynch them. I don't see how this helps your case in the slightest.
You do realize I was saying this in the sense that we both do it, right? Are you even reading my posts, or just looking for snippets to misrep?When you wrote 'he tends to have the same problem', I thought you meant 'he tends to have the same problem in every game he plays', not 'he tends to have the same problem as me'. You at no point specified that you had a similar problem.
...and how often has that actually WORKED? Ever? Um...yeah, sorry, I try not to use strategies that don't work. Though I guess if you believed me there it'd work, right?Thanks for another liberal dashing of WIFOM. Your waste of time is much appreciated.
So, you're taking the policy lynch argument here? That if a townie is anti town, and not even COMPLETELY anti town to boot, since I am producing a lot of content to analyze, and what I'd like to think are decent cases, I need to be lynched?WIFOM. Either you're throwing us away from your partners in a last ditch escape or you're bussing to save yourself. Either way that point is moot, and your cases are only worth looking at after your affiliation is confirmed.
When you wrote 'he tends to have the same problem', I thought you meant 'he tends to have the same problem in every game he plays', not 'he tends to have the same problem as me'. You at no point specified that you had a similar problem.
Thanks for another liberal dashing of WIFOM. Your waste of time is much appreciated.
WIFOM. Either you're throwing us away from your partners in a last ditch escape or you're bussing to save yourself. Either way that point is moot, and your cases are only worth looking at after your affiliation is confirmed.
UK, your WoTs where you're trying to build cases do seem to be alright (Though, I will admit I kinda glazed over the one big one after the start of Day 2. Just... too many links, too little time.), but the ones where you and Rou/UD are just sniping back and forth? Utter chaff. It's just the same three or four points repeated ad nauseum in slightly different ways.
Sodium is probably scum, as he is basing his cases around convenience instead of evidence as he is wont to do as scum.
If UK is scum, so is Alice. UK's tying herself too well to everyone else contributing, and isn't doing so to him.Pretty inaccurate mang. She pretty much followed his lead in calling my posts useless. Unless that's not what you mean.
But you, Rou. You open with 'pointless arguments are pointless, so I'll move on to ones with a point' which suggests you know this already. Same with your comment on Kanako and the hey guys calm down insight.UK's play comes with a good hint of antagonism. It's hard to let points drop when half of her response revolves around telling you you're an idiot.
you've got more than enough time to try and turn two trains around to a third target if you happen to believe that this third target is a better choice than either.But she seemed very happy with the Kanako lynch, and not against the Nietz lynch. Why then go elsewhere for such little reason?
As for the lack of argument. She dropped out because she was having difficulties with that aspect of the game. I'm going to give her some leniency on her debating skills based on that.She dropped out because of emotional attachment and pressure. That's somewhat different.
Finally, your argument that her target is town? Give me the cop report that says you're town, because otherwise, all we have is your word on that and whatever circumstances we have to go with. And Chaos' utterly baffling actions makes me somewhat uninclined to think textbook responses to his play will prove fruitful. And without all that, that makes your line kinda up there with UK's "Hey guys, I'm Town!" remarks.I claim Grolla Seyfarth, Townie Mason. Will that do?
UK:
I like how you went from linking me with Kanako to Serp.
I claim Grolla Seyfarth, Townie Mason. Will that do?
Sodium's 'hey I reread, here's a reason to suspect Carth and here's a reason to clear him, and despite making a point against UK I'm not going to vote' is disappoint. AKA thispostsucks
She pretty much followed his lead in calling my posts useless. Unless that's not what you mean.
but the ones where you and Rou/UD are just sniping back and forth? Utter chaff. It's just the same three or four points repeated ad nauseum in slightly different ways.Oh god, yes. I've actually stopped reading the back-and-forth Rou/UD argument because it is basically rehashing the same couple points and is also basically completely retarded. Could you two please cool it?
Anyone else feel that Carthrat's Kanako vote in Day 1 was also an attempt to start a Kanako wagon?Um, Carthrat never voted for Kanako D1. That was Serp. Are you even reading the thread at all?
The key issue here is that while Serpentarius is suspicious for trying to start a secondary wagon on a sitting duck target late in the day when the primary wagon is a Scum wagon, on the other hand Kanako is being terrible, providing garbage posts with no content, and always making excuses with promises for actual content later that never winds up manifesting itsself. I'm fairly certain that one of these is Scum, and that they're not BOTH Scum, but I'm not sure which of them is the Scum at the moment. Nietz is higher-priority right now anyway for me.
this (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php?topic=4654.msg224473#msg224473) is terrible from the first line. Bragging much? Dear God, why the hell would you ever point out the Pesco NK like that?...huh? Overreaction, much?
But why did you need to bring it up in the first place? The idea is you don't do it on purpose, that it's a scum slip.You were very VERY guilty of this little claim of yours at the final part of Day 2. I'm going to keep my vote on you until you clarify this.
I want to see posts from Serp, Sodium and possibly Arashi before I decide what to do with my vote. For now UK still seems a solid choice (and I'm uncertain as to whether or not we can really afford to let her live given the last two days...)And it reeks of Nietz's vote on D2.
...huh? Overreaction, much?
Can I listen to why is such a line really terrible to you? The rest of his post is bland, yes I agree, but it looks like you're throwing fireworks just for that line.
You were very VERY guilty of this little claim of yours at the final part of Day 2. I'm going to keep my vote on you until you clarify this.
And no, you aren't doing a very good job at pissing me off. Other things did. See above.
...
You know, I'm about ready to vote myself at this point.
The fact that everyone seems to be considering him confirmed only makes this more worrying for me. Alice is a good enough player to type up walls of completely valid points about how the evidence suggests that other players look like scum, even if he knows that they'll actually flip town. The only way to catch him as scum is to look not for a scummy mindset, 'cause he'd never be clumsy enough to show that, but to look for scummy tactics, and this is one thing I don't think Alice would do as town. His eloquence may look pro-town, but the only pro-town action he's been part of is the case against Chaore, and in retrospect, Chaore wasn't going to make it through LyLo anyway.
It looks to me like scum gave up a sacrificial lamb early on in order to let them lead us around by the nose for the rest of the game while they pick us all off. I really hope this isn't just frustrated paranoia, but I see Alice riding too high for a game that's gone this far south, and that sets my alarm bells ringing a lot louder than the bad play I've seen elsewhere in this game.
Why do you need to comment on that?
I don't really follow refuge in audacity since Serp hasn't done anything audacious just now. Still, his non-case in his last post and the plausibility of dual-train-lynch-go-baiting on day 2 is enough to make consider him lynchworthy.
EDIT: Zakeri responded to his prod saying he was writing up a post.So... is he ever going to post? :\
However, if Kanako were to flip scum, Sodium being lynched is possibly a decent idea, pending a few things.
Rereading this, it feels like a protection of Sodium. contrasted with the Kanako attack, I'm not getting good vibes from either Serpy or Sody.
this post, while better then most previous posts, has one problem. Where's Sodium in it? Where are a lot of players, but definitely sodium.Uh, yeah. Both "this" links from your 451 were to Serp's posts btw.
as he is wont to do as scum.^------Ignoring that then
Sodium is probably scum, as he is basing his cases around convenience instead of evidenceProof? Show how my votes were for convenience.
Oh, and I still don't get how "lolwut@PescoNK" is bragging of all things. funny-because-it's-uncommon-and-unexpected, joke, etc. It was even in it's own section, and if you've noticed, I seperate things with "---" usually when it's not serious.
Serp: Why so paranoid? Also, too townie to be town?
As I said, I support a Serp lynch. Lets go
Serp indicated he'd be posting again.. I'd like to see that. Disappearing when facing the hammer is scumtastic (although he still isn't leading).
UK, why did you wait till now to vote. Has Sodium cleared up for you any?
...huh? Overreaction, much?Bragging, or really, even mentioning the previous night's NK is a surprisingly reliable Scumtell. imho, it makes no sense for it to be one, but in the past someone mentioning this is far more likely to be Scum than Town. I believe it's because Scum wants to call attention to their handiwork, whereas Town would note an NK and move on, especially as it was an NK of a VT.
Can I listen to why is such a line really terrible to you? The rest of his post is bland, yes I agree, but it looks like you're throwing fireworks just for that line.
Alice produces some great reasoning for why Chaore's logic is bad in post 180, but I'm not seeing any scummy intent in said bad logic. The most suspicious thing I see from Chaore is that he flipflopped on his stance on UD, and that's pretty well justified by the fact that Chaore believed UD's gambit was a townie one, and UD started denying that he had been trying to use a gambit in the first place between posts 113 and 148. If you're looking for scummy opportunistic bandwagoning, I'd say that Kanako is a worse offender.Really? So what about the flailing, and the nonsense statements, and the proof that Chaore was actually not reading the game?
I don't think it inconceivable they are scum together.Pretty obvious, seeing as you said outright how suspicious Serp leaving me out of his posts were.
I'm still not sure if he's trying to contribute more, or if he's realising he's behaving extremely Scummy and attempting to correct that.These concepts are not mutually exclusive. One could even argue that they're connected. I'm trying both, you see.
UK: Not particularly, but I felt that you're basically hopping from one *insert probable scum lynch* to *another probable scum lynch* to link me to.
if both flip town, I'm gonna flip the coffee table
Any final thoughts before Kilga blows the whistle, UK?
I dunno, I forgot.I fail to see how that's a slip, but feel free to lynch me at the end of the day. Can we do some Scumhunting first instead of throwing the day away, thanks?
UK, you're still alive, I'm an asshat.
But thanks for the slip, Alice.
##vote Alice
I fail to see how that's a slip, but feel free to lynch me at the end of the day. Can we do some Scumhunting first instead of throwing the day away, thanks?
I'll stick with Sodium unless we can come up with a good case on Alice? I'll devote some time tomorrow (meatworld time) to that.This paragraph does not sit well with me. It reads as if you want to find enough dirt on someone to lynch them, as opposed to finding evidence to lynch Scum.
Serpentarius - Hm. While I don't fault you for thinking that Chaore was not Scum, as I started thinking this myself near the end (btw, this is simply because I expected that if Chaore was to draw Scum then even he would remember to act low and not be a moron and attract EVERYONE'S attention to himself, and that his play closely mirrored wrathie's in GWU, who *was* Town. Clearly this falls into the category of "it's virtually impossible to tell Dumb Town from Dumb Scum" and also the category of "the Too Scummy to be Scum fallacy is still, in general, a fallacy. Some people really ARE that dumb.")
Serpentarius #216: It's possible that he just didn't think Chaore is Scummy. Around the same time, I didn't think so either. However, I'm not really buying his defence. My logic was a Too Scummy to be Scum argument.
On UK: The jump looks not so good. I just dislike the sudden jumping of "We're reaching the time limit!". Not that it's an entirely bad thing when it comes to hammering a guy that has already been sentenced. But all the votes were on ONE. FREAKING. PAGE. No.
Serpentarius (4): UncertainKitten, Sodium, UncertainKitten, Carthrat, Alice Margatroid
The only Jam post I remember is 353, where she decides 'scumhunting' = 'giving vague suspicions of four different people'. This however reduced to suspicions of Nietz, Kanako, and (interestingly) Serp.UK was in that post too and she was kinda oscillating on her, but with Serp's flip in hand and the rest of her posting being insanely lackluster, I'm seeing no way to conclude that Jam is town and every way to conclude that she's scum. Hell, even if I take the lurking as entirely null, I still want her lynched.
Jam's town, just not productive town. Lynching her is a waste of time, and I'm honestly suspicious of everyone pursuing her lynch.Reasoning?
Still really want to lynch Jam!and this
Hell, even if I take the lurking as entirely null, I still want her lynched.Just make me want to ask you, WHY? I see no real sound reasoning here at all either save for lack of inactivity. What makes you lean towards scum on me rather than dumb town?
This post (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php?topic=4654.msg222323#msg222323) is enough evidence for me to think Jam is town, unless you can convince me that newbscum would bus a teammate when the case against that teammate was on a low swing.Actually, I'd say that after Chaore's post saying that "yeah my case on UD is kinda weak but I'm still voting him to save myself" that caused Rat's vote for him, Chaore was kind of a sitting duck. In any order, Jam was fifth on the wagon. It's a point in her favour, yeah. But the problem is that most of us have seen nothing from her since. The problem is, is she yet ANOTHER worthless Townie or Scum? I'm leaning Town, but a good chunk of that's from all of the previous failures we've had >_>
It's a huge plus in Jam's favor, and I have seen literally nothing that could be seen as scummy behavior from her.
This appeared in the reread of day 3, is worth a remention-Quote from: RouThe only Jam post I remember is 353, where she decides 'scumhunting' = 'giving vague suspicions of four different people'. This however reduced to suspicions of Nietz, Kanako, and (interestingly) Serp.UK was in that post too and she was kinda oscillating on her, but with Serp's flip in hand and the rest of her posting being insanely lackluster, I'm seeing no way to conclude that Jam is town and every way to conclude that she's scum. Hell, even if I take the lurking as entirely null, I still want her lynched.
However, looking back at the vote counts, I've noticed that Tom was the first to vote for Nietz, now confirmed town, and the 2nd to last to vote for Chaore, who we know is scum. This along with what I've stated previously leads me to still be most suspicious of him for the time being.Mind you, DREAD THOMAS was on Nietz's case as early as D1, so that makes me slightly less suspicious of his early D2 vote of Nietz.
##Vote EvilTom
UK's opening post of this day worries me quite a bit as well. Why include Excal in that list? He's only been around for one day, and before that we have quite a bit on Arashi. Why even mention Myself/Carth/Excal as a Scumteam option with no reasoning behind it? I don't like the WELP LET'S GO AND VOTE SODIUM thing either. At the same time, it doesn't make any goddamn sense for UK to be Scum in this game. Blargh.
Wow. Nietz man. My scumdar just started ringing like crazy.
I forced him to take action, and what does he finally do? Jump on the easy Chaore bandwagon of course.
He gives reason to vote Kanako, then says "But Chaore has more votes, so I'll vote him!" What the fuck.
Sure Chaore looks bad, but it looks as much like flailing town as anything to me (especially with Tewi's assaults etc.) but bandwagoning looks even worse, especially when you list reason to vote x then say 'but y is worse! I'll vote y!'.
There's no way this major slip-up can be ignored.
##Vote Neitz
Chaore is already doomed by this point, but he still makes a show of input, jumping on the Chaore train for town cred but leaving open the option of switching to a Kanako train (in case his scumbuddy gets off the hook somehow).
This also leaves Kanako open as a fallback case.
I'm also not a fan of "whee Chaore-bandwagon-smash", either. Starting to wonder if my opinion of you as "(mostly) harmless idiot" is a bit premature (i.e. yes it is), though it really is your only option now as there are now two clearly-defined bandwagons on D1 and you're one of them, so this move is hardly all that surprising.
Alice is still the most Towny Pro-Town Townie to ever Town (on the very small chance he's not, he's doing a damned good job of faking it). Vig means Edible is confirmed Town.
Interestingly, while going over this reread I've become extremely unnerved of Arashi: in post#467 she attempts to tie herself to me a bit, and despite offering more showing that Sodium is Scummy, votes UK principally because UK has more posts! This is kind of...backwards, really. I've already summarized my opinion of her D1 posts, and in general there's just something that unnerves me about her a lot. I'm going to have to keep a very close eye on Excal once he finally starts posting.
I will note that Day 4 does bring up one thing that I was curious about. Namely, as to why Rat/Alice did not enquire about the Dayvig on Day flipping 2? We have the possibility of a second lynch each day, and it's never brought up? Seriously? And yes, those are the only two that's even remotely a tell for since I'm only figuring those two to be knowledgable enough in the finer tactics of the game to realise how awesome multiple dayvig is.
And no, it's not a misrep: why did you even feel the need to mention that you'd vote yourself? It's AtE, it's pointless and it doesn't add to the game.
I'm starting to get extremely worried. I'd seriously have voted Sodium a longass time ago - he's quite horrible. So was Nietz, and Kanako, and Serp. They all flipped Town. Assuming 4 Scum, which makes sense for a game this size, and if we mess up then tomorrow is LYLO. So I really have no idea what to do, other than read everyone again in isolation, then reread the entire game thread, and hope I don't mess up again.
Curiously, Excal's posts have all but confirmed him as Town to me, which doesn't make any sense considering he replaced someone who I thought was Scum to some extent for most of the game but had no evidence to really go off of.
EBWOP: @Excal: vigs on this site have literally always been 1-shot, to the point where a multiple-use vig didn't even occur to me until D4, and it actually surprised me quite a bit, and in the end...it turned out to be 1-shot anyway. Why would you even assume that one of myself or Carthrat should assume multi-vig, anyway?
You didn't ask that. You asked why I'd vote myself. Not "Why would you say that". Subtle difference.I'm wondering why this even matters, but you saying it made me wonder why you'd actually consider going through with that.
Re:Arashi. It's not the fact you suspect her and "follow through" later. You actually never follow through as far as I could see. You never vote her, just slowly increase your suspicion of her, and even then do it so SOFTLY it's almost coaching. You only change your tune once she makes that stupid "towniest of protowness" statement.What follow-through? I'd follow through if I managed to collect some evidence. Unfortunately, there was enough to create just enough lingering suspicion, but nothing that was enough to confirm that she was Scum to me.
Why? I...don't really understand this leap of logic at all.The way he builds his case on Rou means that he's either a really good actor, or he really is interpreting Rou's votes with him being Town. This, combined with both him AND Arashi voting for Rou...Arashi voting for Rou even AFTER I explained why Rou pretty much can't be Scum (i.e. competing wagon to A Scum on D1), makes very little to no sense as Scum, Scum would just want a Townie, any Townie to be lynched, and I don't think anyone else was really prepared to vote for Roukanken at this point in time. Combined with nothing wrong in the above walls except for the extremely blatant congratulation at Sodium for Sodium's content (which, as I've stated numerous times during this game, is lifted from other players), I'm fairly sure he's Town.
I'm wondering why this even matters, but you saying it made me wonder why you'd actually consider going through with that.
What follow-through? I'd follow through if I managed to collect some evidence. Unfortunately, there was enough to create just enough lingering suspicion, but nothing that was enough to confirm that she was Scum to me.
I think it's silly to say that someone is scum because they've voted for now confirmed due to death town
I've noticed that Tom was the first to vote for Nietz, now confirmed town,What astonishing hypocrisy.
##Vote EvilTom
The closest thing to a tell would have to be the people who jumped on at the end, and I don't believe that's been the case for me entirely as I was the fifth to vote for both Chaore and Nietz which is fairly nice in the middle..."I'm town because I was careful about when I jumped on the train". What bullshit. The only people who would give a damn about timing their votes are scum.
I've noticed that Tom was [...] the 2nd to last to vote for Chaore, who we know is scum.Voting for somebody after they claimed a non-town faction? Good heavens, what will we do?
As for Alice, I'm finding it really hard to find anything overly suspicious from what I went back and read.. I suppose I can't help but be slightly paranoid though as it seems clear that whoever the scum is, they know what they're doing... so I'll have to keep an eye on him anyway...Blah blah useless fluff.
This post (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php?topic=4654.msg222323#msg222323) is enough evidence for me to think Jam is town, unless you can convince me that newbscum would bus a teammate when the case against that teammate was on a low swing.Chaore was lynch leader at that point, with most of the train confirmed town. It must have looked pretty bad to the rest of the scum. I refer you to the above, where Jam has put considerable thought into when is the least scummy time to bus.
Oh, and while Jam does require posting ACTUAL CONTENT, this once again reeks of EasyVote(tm).Ironic, considering he pushed for a Serp lynch with "somewhat lurky" being one of his main reasons.
##Vote: Evil Tom
Hi Jam. Decent point on Carth though. It'll be nice if Tom answers your question too.Cheer-leading and backup!
Jam: You going to post anything useful today?and another token poke on day 1:
Token mentions contrast the heavy defense we're seeing in Day 4.Hi Jam, want to vote or something? >_>nvm Also, I need to re-read 244. =V
JAMWhat astonishing hypocrisy.I wasn't suggesting that thought should be put into when one votes for someone, simply that voting at the tail end of towards the beginning seems to suggest something about one's alliance.
"I'm town because I was careful about when I jumped on the train". What bullshit. The only people who would give a damn about timing their votes are scum.
EDIBLE RE: JAMChaore was lynch leader at that point, with most of the train confirmed town. It must have looked pretty bad to the rest of the scum. I refer you to the above, where Jam has put considerable thought into when is the least scummy time to bus.
@Jam: Why don't I think you're town? Because I see no townie traits. I saw an ill-timed vote on Chaore, mostly parroted points throughout day one. On day 2/3 I could only see one post each that said anything; day2 focused on suspicions of people we know to be town (+UK who you semi-ignored, meaningless whifflewaffle.) day 3 was "DT is scum because he voted Nietz." The hypocrisy astounds me.As I've said, the mean reason I'm not super great at coming up with my own posts is because I don't really have the proness, experience, or analytical mind necessary for this. So the best I can do for now is take other people's statements and analyze them based on what I think to be true and what I read.
I'm trying trying trying to prevent another mislynch. But when the mafia is clearly made up of people with tons of experience and this is my first game, there's not much I can really think to do.
Lastly, I have no idea why Sodium is protecting me. If I were scum, I would have told him to stop right away because really that would be far too stupid of a way to go about being scum. I really don't know what compelled him to protect me in the first place...
There's really not too much else to go off of seeing as we've messed up in all terms of trying to properly analyze people this game. That and... well it should be clear that I really don't know how to play this game all that well yet.
What is this? How do you know this?Well I obviously don't know this but... it seems fairly safe to think this is the case at this point.
Well I obviously don't know this but... it seems fairly safe to think this is the case at this point.
Anyway, all of you have more experience than me don't you?
Also, I'm not trying to clear my mistakes because everyone has made them, I'm just saying that using solely mistakes everyone has made as case towards someone being scum seems a bit silly at this point.
True... I'm personally starting to suspect the most experienced players as it seems clear that the Mafia is made up of really good/experienced players due to the fact that we've been lynching townies up to this point... [most of whom actually seemed quite scummy, making it even more confusing] That's why I made that statement.
@Kerigis: With regard to the serptrain, I would like to call your attention as to how pretty much everyone on it had already stated a willingness to lynch the guy. The votes did come on quickly but I don't think that should be an issue.
...=V I do believe I am currently between the Border of Probably Fucked and Fucked.afgagsasdfyg, I'm so sick of things like these.
I'm still looking at Tom mostly for reasons I stated before.
Nice wall UK. You actually do keep your word when you say you'll do some scumhunting.
You made a good point about me ignoring Tom previously so now that I've looked at his posts I'm fairly suspicious of him... He posts once in a while and despite the fact that he makes fairly logical arguments in everything he does he defended Chaore in the beginning and has each time voted for someone we now know to be Town, even if no one else was voting for them. The only exception to this is his vote for Chaore (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php?topic=4654.msg222860#msg222860) at the point where he was already doomed.
##Vote EvilTom
...and lynching someone without an important and verifiable role is always better than lynching yourself.
...
You know, I'm about ready to vote myself at this point.
Yes, I know that UK was in the Border of Life and Death (ha), however, her vote is just... that, a lifesaver, not a very insightful post on why UK has pinpointed Serp other than "Refuge for Audacity".
That's why I'm aiming at Sodium right now.
Thanks for the crickets.wav in response to my vote.lolwhoops.
UK: You did vote Serp first. Then Kilga announced Serp's inability to post for awhile, and you switched to me because voting Serp would be stupid at that point. The ending vote count even said you voted him first.
Actually, Kitten. I don't think anyone has brought this up, but why would you operate under the assumption that a scum would start up a train on a buddy who, while there is suspicion, seems likely to survive the day if nothing happens to get people started voting on him. Especially right before day ends?
Character: Liebea Palesch, most pathetic fighter in all of RKS, but also a devout little sister. How cute!
Role: Town Cop. Each night, you can pick one other player in the game, and when the next day starts you will be told if they are town or scum.
Yeah. If for some reason Kilga doesn't kill me... wouldn't the mafia kill me anyway at this point.No, because if you don't get modkilled then it means you're scum fakeclaiming. And you get lynched 30 seconds later.
Alice, do you HONESTLY think Jam is fakeclaiming? After QUOTING A ROLE PM!?Really. Because it's impossible for someone to slap together some words that are phrased similarly to their actual role PM and fakeclaim? I'm not sure why entertaining the possiblity of such an occurence is Scummy at all, much less to the point of this reaction.
Fuck this
##Vote Alice
Generally if scum fakeclaims by faking a PM quote, I modkill and continue the day. That's rather common for scum modkills. Then again, town modkills usually end the day, and that obviously didn't happen. Then again, it was an inactivity modkill, so an actual rule violation modkill might work differently.Well once Kilga modkills her, or doesn't modkill her, or whatever, we'll find out :V
Therefore, I'm assuming she's walking dead.
At any rate, Alice, you should still know better. How many games has Jam played? Even if her scum partners made a role PM for her (which I doubt), don't you think they'd have told her NOT TO CLAIM IT/QUOTE IT!?
I don't buy you being this stupid, Alice.
Let's start with where the hell are such posts with said "willingness on it". You were the first one who started considering such a Serp lynch after his post that everyone pretty much went batshit about. Sodium is the one who jumped, and I'm calling opportunistic jump on him. Hell, even UK herself stated that her firstmost reason was to save herself from being lynched, targeting her "next suspect". Furthermore, all that willingness and votes started at the same page.
Kinda weird huh? Considering that after two long drags from the first two days and being pretty sure on who were going to lynch, we stutter on one single page and make a rushed decision, as I see it.
UsuallyDead: (7):I'm just going to go on a limb and rule out Alice as scum for now. I feel that this is a huge point in his favour, because it's incredibly unlikely that there was only 1 scum contributing to bringing a townie to 7 votes anyways.
UncertainKitten <-- confirmed green on UK wasn't in original post
Edible: Dayvig
Carthrat
Arashi Kurobara
Nietz
Chaore
Kanako
Out of all remaining, does anyone think there's another scum? I...want to think so given the speed of the wagon, but I did just reread UD's behavior and am like "yeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeah"
Sodium (2): UncertainKitten, Kerigis
Jam-Kiske (3): EvilTom, Carthrat, Excal
Alice Margatroid (1): Edible
EvilTom (2): Sodium, Jam-Kiske
No vote cast: Alice Margatroid
As Alice already pointed out, out of all the uncleared (not counting me for obvious reasons), it bedazzles me on how everyone of them except Alice were going for Jam, who we know is the cop.
I'm almost willing to go and say that those three are scum, but just blatant gut won't do.
Huh, combined with the infinite time length for LYLO, that does mean an unwinnable scenario for Town.
Okay, in light of Jam's flip, I'm going to consider UK and Sodium both cleared. If anyone has any issues for the logic as to why I think Excal is Town in post #617, now is the time to speak up.
It's interesting to note that both DT and Carthrat were the people principally voting Jam today, and DT on D1 was first on Pesco, then on NEETz, only moving to Chaore when Chaore outright claimed an Anti-Town faction. At the same time...that's almost too much vote-jumping for Scum-DREAD THOMAS. D2 he continues the attack on NEETz, and D3/D4 attacks Jam, around the time when he's joined in on by Carthrat.
I'm honestly not sure what to make of it.
Kerigis makes no sense to me right now. Flying under the radar to the point where I forgot he existed, voting UK over Chaore even after Chaore went on his little nonsense rampage and not showing up again, though his Nietz vote D2 is for alright reasons even if it is on a Town wagon. Ever since, he persists in his attention on UK, even to the point of ignoring other people, in fact D1 he voted UK, D2 he took a brief break to off Nietz, then D3 he voted UK, then D4...oh wait he moved to Sodium now.
On the one hand, he puts craptons of undue attention on UK even during times when it's not likely she'll be lynched (i.e. D1). On the other hand, ever since, he's had a...wonderful voting history of voting pretty much solely for Townies. Top pick for Scum atm.
Carthrat: Satisfied with him for now. Before someone goes "OMG ALICE IS BEING INCONSISTENT", unlike the above, he did not spend most of his post on a reporter-style play-by-play, and also he actually brings up actual points. Definetly someone to watch on later days, but he has a history of being quiet on D1. Also will probably hate me for the length of this post.
I'd seriously have voted Sodium a longass time ago - he's quite horrible. So was Nietz, and Kanako, and Serp.
Rat is quick to attack me over Jam despite him also voting Jamoh wow. Are you actually holding this against me, or just pointing it out or what? What are you trying to say here?
Edible: What happened to your re-read anyways?
there is zero reason for Scum to defend a TownieAlice also adresses what I said above on Arashi.
The first thing that strikes me about this is that Ker makes it seem like the scum team knew Jam was a cop, and was out to kill her. But, the issue with this is, why in the blue blazes would the scum try and kill the cop by lynching them? I mean, they have a night kill, which has the decided upshot of not giving Jam the chance to let anyone else know what she found.
KeriActually, considering it's LYLO, why haven't we had a massclaim yet?
Claim.
Actually, considering it's LYLO, why haven't we had a massclaim yet?
Waiting for claims to finish.
Say Alice is scum but he has a really obvious fakeclaim. And the other two are on Keri. So, if either me or Sodium jump on Keri, we'll miss the obv fakeclaim and get screwed in a preventable manner.
I'll be around to vote.
You mean that the obvious fakeclaim is "Vanilla town" like everybody else except Edible?
With 8 alive, it takes 5 to lynch. You have 110 minutes hours to vote.
Oh, cmon, I was a hyperproducer. I deserved a break by the point I had a TVTropes binge!
either way, well played scum.
Captain bandwagon \o/
Edible, I am glad you think it obvious when you did not feel compelled to actually state any kind of reason as to why people should find it so.
I actually pegged Jam as cop by day 2 ~.~
oh yeah pesco is scary so I will always NK him asap
(TOPH KNOWS IF YOU ARE LYING breadcrumb. Also UK is the towniest townie town ever.)
You're like the only player I know who can go "We should lynch XYZ just because" and people will do it AND YOU'RE ALWAYS GODDAMN RIGHTActually the problem with Pesco in most gaems on this site is that he goes "we should lynch XYZ just because", he's goddamn right, and then everyone ignores him.
Actually the problem with Pesco in most gaems on this site is that he goes "we should lynch XYZ just because", he's goddamn right, and then everyone ignores him.To be fair, I'm holding to Kilga's claim that there are 3 segments to Mafia as a Townie:
hey Rou how much umineko have you read?Everything that's been translated thus far. :V
To be fair, I'm holding to Kilga's claim that there are 3 segments to Mafia as a Townie:
- Finding scum
- Convincing people you're right
- Convincing people you're Townie
Pesco is insanely good with the first point. Not so much the other two.
Yeah, you say that NOW, but wait until he fakeclaims cop.He did that already. as Town and hit scum
He did that already. as Town and hit scum