Doctor Wars Mafia - Game Over

[DNAbc]

Dan, the general interpretation of lurk means not contributing, I appreciate your blip to show us that you are alive but that doesn't mean you are kicking us out of RVS and helping us, hence lurk is an apt description of your behavior.

[Raitaki]

In fact, I think Sky P knew about this too. We had so many times raging happily together in the graveyard and you always complain about how MoTK needs to lynch the lurkers asap because they cannot be discerned of their alignment either way.

So let's not lynch by statistics now and instead lynch by obvious logical fallacies and intentional obliviousness of known  player behavior.

##Unvote
##Vote: Sky P

Uh...why is this a thing? If Sky_Pal says he wants to lynch lurkers while dead in another game, how does that make him voting known lurkers this game scummy?

Plus I don't like pointless filler banana jokes, that's just plain convenient to look contributive

Yeah well I'd say the same thing about your blurb about lynching by statistics, except that doesn't have anything to do with silly confirmation phase shenanigans and wasn't obviously not meant to be taken seriously.

##Unvote
##Vote: Darkninjaabc

[SB]

So Sky Paladin I don't understand the banana pun. Since we are probably all males here its just kinda awkward or something.

I dunno but since Sky P's post was teh only mildly interesting thing that happened I am commenting on that.

But with this degree of activity I propose we lynch by statistics (not really). I personally have no qualms over lynching Dan because 100% of games Dan was lurking D1 he has been scum, but since he's also been lurking 100% in games where he was town anyway its kinda worthless.
In fact, I think Sky P knew about this too. We had so many times raging happily together in the graveyard and you always complain about how MoTK needs to lynch the lurkers asap because they cannot be discerned of their alignment either way.

So let's not lynch by statistics now and instead lynch by obvious logical fallacies and intentional obliviousness of known  player behavior.

##Unvote
##Vote: Sky P


Plus I don't like pointless filler banana jokes, that's just plain convenient to look contributive but not really because D1 RVS has a lower effort input expectation than most days.

so wolfy

[Raitaki]

SB it'd be nice if you could explain, or at least quote what specific parts were wolfy (I'm assuming that means scummy)

[Raikaria]

I personally do not agree too much the the Sky votes, at least, not at the current time.

There's always the possibility Sky will come in and say something stupid that makes me want to vote him.

[SB]

He basically said that sky wanted to lynch lurkers even before the game started and that makes him scum. His case is pretty much terrible. Also "man he's faking content with those walls" is stupid because I don't think anyone considered them to be contributions at all.

raikaria elaborate pls on how serious your vote is

[Raikaria]

As I said, pretty serious. The game has reached the point where if I was joking I would have moved my vote already.

[SB]

What did you find scummy about it? It isn't really well explained.

[Raikaria]

It's a serious vote about something that doesn't even matter. Skypaladin didn't vote during RVS. Big deal. That doesn't make him the scums.

And by default I usually vote Serela D1, especially when there's nothing else to go on, because town should never let Serela live to LYLO. Town Serela loses LYLO 100% of the time and Scum Serela doesn't want town to win LYLO either. The fact he's the only one [Except Zakeri who's done something even more minor] that's done anything I find scummy helps.

[Serela]

I won in full lylo twice!

Admittedly one time I was trying really, really hard to lynch the person who wasn't scum.

Also Raikaria my case has kind of expanded past that you know :C

[WHMZakeri]

Zakeri, a town circle is just as plausible as a scum circle. You can coulor a circle green, blue, red, yellow, or whatever you want. I'm a little concerned about what seems to be slight paranoia about this circle thing, but that's only slight.

Umm, no it's not. A Scum circle doesn't exist because it implies that he knows one other person is definitely in the circle, which that other person has to be himself. There's no reason to not just call me scum outright if that's what he thought, because he wouldn't be claiming himself scum and myself his partner unless he had a traitorous role that he was trying to breadcrumb to me directly.

Serela hanging onto the Sky vote an expanding on it seems off to me.

Sky's vote is perfectly okay. There's no way you could isolate it as only coming from scummy intent.
Same goes for Dark's vote, but aside from the weird anti-banana tangent I don't feel any bad vibes. (Of course people pick up on the fallacies in that post right after I decided it wasn't worth looking into so I dunno)

@Dan: Actually I think Serela is only defending you because it helps his case against Sky to do so.

##Unvote: Raikaria
##FoS: Serela
No L-1 yet.

[WHMZakeri]

My first point sounds kind of muddled reading it over again, but the gist of it is that I think if SB wanted to say I was a mafioso, He'd have a much better way of doing so than implying he was also Mafia.

[BT]

Votecount 1.4

Sky_Paladin: (2) Serela, Darkninjaabc
Serela: (2) SB, Raikaria
Darkninjaabc: (1) Raitaki
ActionDan: (1) Sky_Paladin
SB: (1) NekoNekoRex
Raikaria: (1) ActionDan

Not Voting: [1/9] Zakeri

You have 1 day and 23 hours left. 5 votes are needed for a majority.
(Countdown)

[Raitaki]

Okay, Serela's case on Sky_Pal is kind of weak and he's unlikely to be scum for just those reasons, sure. Though I don't see how this makes Serela scummy? Sure, it kinda looks like she was nitpicking on Sky_Pal, but hey when you look at Sky_Pal and his "Dan didn't joke in RVS SCUM" he was nitpicky on Dan too.
It's kinda weird how Raikaria just forgot about Serela's reactions to Sky_Pal after he posted again. I mean we're on the third freaking page and Serela made 3 posts that Raikaria apparently is treating as non-existent, it's not like they're can get buried in mounds of other people's content or anything. Raikaria respond to those posts too please

SB do you feel Serela's recent posts are still scummy enough to keep voting her over Darkninja?
Also Zak why did you just unvote and leave your vote lying around. If you don't want to put Serela at L-2 yet that's understandable, but do you have any other scumreads?

[NekoNekoRex]

Popping in to acknowledge I remembered this existed still. I was too busy today to post and can't stay long enough to do more then say I'll make up for it tomorrow, I swear.

An my earlier vote was still serious, BTW, as worthless as I expect it would be now. Then again, maybe not. Who knows.

[WHMZakeri]

Votecount 1.4
Serela: (2)

Oh

##Vote: Serela

Right now I feel like Serela is the strongest lead to pursue right now. The intent of making a big to-do about using FoS instead of voting was to prevent hammering while also driving home the point that Serela was my top chase.
Basically, I feel like the pursuit against Sky is too forced to be coming from a town perspective. There are bits on other people I agree are vote worthy, like the thing people bring up against Dark that I missed, and also I think Dan and NNR Are valid targets, too.

[SB]

@Rai, yes Serela is still more voteworthy. DNA is probably second, but I don't feel like they're buddies together.

I feel like my guess for a second scum would be a lurker. Leaning NNR>Dan atm, would like him to explain how his early vote was serious (because Serela is obvwolf for ignoring my first post!!!!!!!)

[DNAbc]

I don't understand the reasoning for my case being bad, can someone please tell me why in an understandable manner?
Or can Raitaki rephrase his attack without the use of so many rhetoricals? They are rather pointless because instead of giving your opinion you are essentially telling players to go formulate their own, which isn't the point of scumhunting, at all.

And do kindly consider it was still RVS (imo) when I made my Sky_P case, I believe my post officially kicked us out of the phase so I really don't have much material to quote lol, the demands are unreasonable and as such I cannot oblige.

I personally agree with Raikaria on the Serela lynch though, because statistics are awesome.

Zakeri is spending alot of time looking kinda waffly and so do SB, I can dismiss them as null.

Sky P hasn't been back yet so lawl I don't have much to add atm.

[BT]

You have 1 day, 11 hours and 21 minutes left. 5 votes are needed for a majority.
(Countdown)

[Serela]

Effectively a prod-dodge post because if I'm delayed too much in getting home from work it'd be prod time (but I need to leave for said work immediately); will post shortly after returning home

[Raitaki]

I don't understand the reasoning for my case being bad, can someone please tell me why in an understandable manner?
Or can Raitaki rephrase his attack without the use of so many rhetoricals? They are rather pointless because instead of giving your opinion you are essentially telling players to go formulate their own, which isn't the point of scumhunting, at all.

Sure. My problem with your case was you basically voted Sky_Pal for following through on something he said he wanted to do outside of the game. Unless we're talking about something downright bad like "I wanna act like all of D1 is RVS every time" I don't see how that makes him scummy. I don't even know what the "intentional obliviousness of known player behavior" part was about, if someone's a known lurker and they haven't shown any signs otherwise what's wrong with voting them for lurking?
Also, you did the thing you accused Sky_Pal of (pointless filler stuff that pretends to contribute but not really) with that useless blurb about Dan.

[NekoNekoRex]

I've not been lurking on purpose, I actually literally forgot the game existed for a few hours when I could post, but decided to do something else.

Then I had to go to bed and I couldn't get on my computer to actually play when I wanted to.

Anyway, I'm here now so I might as well read and play while I'm actually around.

[Sky_Paladin]

OK I am back after being away all day and nothing really happened, sigh.  Let's read the thread again. 

Things I think are scummy so far:
Serela's poor vote on me -> failed to improve vote -> continued to vote even when reason for vote was disproved.  Scummy because fake intent, vote parking, scum love to coast.  Can it be called coasting at L-1 though? 
Dan -> lurked until prompted to act -> "I don't have any reads yet" but still voting for Zak for no reason despite being prompted to explain.  No contributing posts in the game so far. 
DNA -> "I personally have no qualms over lynching Dan because 100% of games Dan was lurking D1 he has been scum, but since he's also been lurking 100% in games where he was town anyway its kinda worthless."
LOOK. 

I am not saying "We should turbo lynch lurkers day 1" in the same way that, for example, Rai suggested we should lynch Serela because she statistically will lose the game for town in LYLO.  I am saying that the way you get players like ActionDan to actually get involved in the game is to put a vote or two behind them.  Then they are very chatty and then you can make better decisions about it.  Case in point:  Dan didn't show up in the game at all until there was a vote for him.  Dan doesn't go afk.  He power lurks because you let him.  Why should he post?  Town would rather lynch the least effective scum hunter/public debater.  If your not scum hunting or debating, you won't get lynched. 

Like I am not even voting Dan because I think he's scum directly.  We know scum like to lurk.  I want to light a fire under Dan's ass so he can't lurk AND WE SHOULD DO THIS WITH ANY PLAYERS WHO LURK.  Dan just happens to be the target of my ire because he voted without reason and then vanished. 

Town should always be trying to improve their vote.  I don't see town intent from Dan.  Conversely, I can see town intent from DNA because he is trying to make a case and be constructive, even if that case is bad.  I would rather keep somebody who makes bad cases around than somebody who makes no cases. 

You're basically doing the exact thing I am from a different angle so that's why I understand what you're saying and even if I disagree with your reasoning, your heart is in the right place. 

***

Anyway, Serela had a number of opportunities to improve her vote either by defending her current vote on me or by making a case and voting elsewhere.  Instead she blustered around and argued over petty things instead of scumhunting.  So what, I don't get it.  She was at L-2 for quite some time and had the opportunity to do something and did not.  Serela just vote parked for the reason of "Sky didn't vote in RVS" and then changed her mind to "Because he is voting Dan."  No.  Bad Serela.  Town want to improve their vote.  This means updating their thinking based on new information.  You just voted and retroactively justified! 

##unvote
##Fos - Serela

I will not be here for phase end but I will be back in around seven hours to check the thread.  At that time I can upgrade my FoS to a vote so if somebody else who will be around wants to unvote, go ahead. 

I a million times would rather lynch a non contributor like Dan but in the absence of actual activity from Dan I have to consider the scummy activity from you as more serious. 

[NekoNekoRex]

So, SB, my first serious vote (on you) was because you were making a logical fallacy, and by asking Serela to do literally the impossible because she had no posts yet that game.

Granted these are RVS reasons for a vote but it was a serious RVS vote.
Then you OMGUS'd me when there was no indication I was even defending Serela.

The next scummy post that caught my eye is Raikaria's here, which looks like a really shitty bandwagon hop. Lots of fluff in there too.

Dan feels like he is lurking because he has literally no opinions, which I would find exceedingly hard to do halfway into a D1. That's pretty bad, really. Active lurking in the more obvious sense.

[giant text wall]
so wolfy

uhhh, why?


Also, why are we lynching Serela again?

[Sky_Paladin]

I'm really tired and I have deja vu but if feels like NNR already asked this before. 

Oh here we are. 

NNR-
##Vote: SB
Logical fallacy. You're putting the burden of proof on Serela to be town, instead of proving that she's scum

SB-
##Unvote
##Vote: NNR

Defending his scumbuddy. Wolfy as fuck.

***

Also this:
Granted these are RVS reasons for a vote but it was a serious RVS vote.

Come on man.  What is a 'serious RVS vote'.  What does this even MEAN?

[NekoNekoRex]

So, I think SB is scum and I'm not moving my vote on him.

To be fair it's not really easy to come up with a super convincing case, but it feels like he's been leading the charge on a lot of really shitty vectors but at the same time, while he's been complaining about activity, he's not really been doing much himself aside from making twitter posts and feeling like he's been in the background directing the game.

He had no opinion on Raikaria despite his vote being a really obvious lazy wagon hop on his thoughts (he even thought it apparently wasn't serious for awhile), even after Raikaria then gave conflicting answers on how serious his vote was)

He doesn't even give an opinion on Dan, despite actually commenting on him being a lurker.

The worst part is the post where he comments on a wall being scummy and then has to actually be asked how it is before he explains.

IMO he's playing 'just hard enough' to look town, but he's really scum.

[NekoNekoRex]

Raikaria is a nice secondary choice for waffling on his own vote which apparently was only half-serious at the time he made it (and was really just a hop to begin with, which is terrible)

Apparently people think I'm still defending Serela (I haven't even said anything about Serela herself the entire fucking game), which is hilarious. Maybe I should if it would get people to vote scums.

Why are people voting him, exactly? Because he's trying to stick to a shitty vote and even improve on it later, even after people are telling her it's a dumb vote? I think that just looks like an idiot townie.
Scum would have switched off a vote that town didn't like by now, but Serela's been sticking to her guns. Looks townie enough to me.

In fact I think there should be more reasons to vote Raikaria too.

It's a serious vote about something that doesn't even matter. Skypaladin didn't vote during RVS. Big deal. That doesn't make him the scums.

And by default I usually vote Serela D1, especially when there's nothing else to go on, because town should never let Serela live to LYLO. Town Serela loses LYLO 100% of the time and Scum Serela doesn't want town to win LYLO either. The fact he's the only one [Except Zakeri who's done something even more minor] that's done anything I find scummy helps.

Here's one right now.

[SB]

So, I think SB is scum and I'm not moving my vote on him.

To be fair it's not really easy to come up with a super convincing case, but it feels like he's been leading the charge on a lot of really shitty vectors but at the same time, while he's been complaining about activity, he's not really been doing much himself aside from making twitter posts and feeling like he's been in the background directing the game.

He had no opinion on Raikaria despite his vote being a really obvious lazy wagon hop on his thoughts (he even thought it apparently wasn't serious for awhile), even after Raikaria then gave conflicting answers on how serious his vote was)

He doesn't even give an opinion on Dan, despite actually commenting on him being a lurker.

The worst part is the post where he comments on a wall being scummy and then has to actually be asked how it is before he explains.

IMO he's playing 'just hard enough' to look town, but he's really scum.

NNR your big case is attacking 2 of my RVS jokeposts that were taking the piss out of game of champions. You say "you've been doing nothing but twitterposting" but I'm not going to make up walls of bullshit about posts that don't exist. Also, you can't direct the game from the background, and I've done a lot more than a large chunk of the playerlist so this case is all just blatantly wrong.

I think Raikaria is kind of town, but me not having an opinion him despite the fact that I asked him a question or two isn't as damning as you're trying to make it out to be. I don't have an opinion on Dan because he's posted practically nothing. I wouldn't mind lynching him though because I'd like the somewhat active people to still be alive.

I made the wall comment because I was busy playing EM with a bunch of SF people at the time and didn't have time to make a longer post.

Cut by second post. Will address that now I guess.

[SB]

EBWOP: *I think Raikaria is town now, I was mostly nullish at the time.

I don't really have much to say on the Raikaria suspicion aside from I disagree just because the tone of his posts feel townie to me.

Serela is scummy because his Sky vote was terrible and nothing he's done has improved my opinion of that yet. Admittedly my vote is still there because I don't feel like the majority of the active posters are mafia though, rather than it being a super strong suspicion.

[NekoNekoRex]

NNR your big case is attacking 2 of my RVS jokeposts that were taking the piss out of game of champions

It's like you missed the point completely (and I didn't get that refrence, so thanks for explaining I guess?)

Asking the occasional question and pushing a shitty case isn't "hunting the scum" you know. You aren't even pushing said shitty case that hard, really. Serela's had all these posts and you've had basically nothing to say about them.