Author Topic: Touhou Accomplishments XVI - Not Faily Wars  (Read 219196 times)

Re: Touhou Accomplishments XVI - Not Faily Wars
« Reply #840 on: July 14, 2012, 12:56:12 PM »
The difficulty in scoreruns comes from different aspects than that of survival runs. So, no: it's not ignoring some aspect but rather focusing on some aspect, which results in plenty of changes. My example was extreme but not wrong.

Survival skills are a true subset of scoring skills. If you keep running into bullets, you're not going to be able to pull off any plans for scoring you might have. For really high scores, being able to survive everything in the game well is basically a bare minimum requirement.

The comparison would make sense if wrestling skills were essential to cooking well.
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BT

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Re: Touhou Accomplishments XVI - Not Faily Wars
« Reply #841 on: July 14, 2012, 01:24:24 PM »
Survival skills are a true subset of scoring skills. If you keep running into bullets, you're not going to be able to pull off any plans for scoring you might have. For really high scores, being able to survive everything in the game well is basically a bare minimum requirement.

The comparison would make sense if wrestling skills were essential to cooking well.
That's not my point, though. Scoring challenges your patience and precision above anything else. For example, one scoring route would be considered more difficult than another if it has a safespot that's hard to pull off consistently. A stage that is considered easy while playing for survival can become hard for scoring, and the other way around too.

You could argue that a scoring run of <Stage X> is almost always more impressive than any other run of <Stage X>, and that would be true, but that's not what I'm talking about. What I'm trying to say is that players that don't score won't immediately appreciate a run of, say, MoF Normal, because they don't know how much consistency is required, if at all. (although MoF is probably a bad example...)

Seppo Hovi

Re: Touhou Accomplishments XVI - Not Faily Wars
« Reply #842 on: July 14, 2012, 02:10:23 PM »
Most of the active members of this community have next to no experience with scorerunning and mainly play for survival. When you take this into account, it's completely logical that survival runs get more praise, because most people are most familiar with them and recognize the difficulty. It does not mean that they are harder to perform. In fact, difficulty shouldn't even be a factor, because these are people's hard-earned accomplishments, whatever they are.
Accomplishments are subjective and personal and completely unreleated to the discussion here. Achievements and goals are personal, not meant for gaining praise from some community. The best achievement is a personal achievement, something that's important to you and something that you like yourself. For example I'm almost the only person in this forum whose main achievements are from IN easy, but they are great to me since I liked them and put a lot of effort to them - they were achievements to ME, not the other people.

Therefore the community should not care about other's achievements that much. What the community may care about is the difficulty and skill level of the achievement, and how much patience it has required, since those things are unchanging. In terms of difficulty, however, you should not say shit unless you know the game to the fullest. I know several actually good scorerunners who will back me up when I say that IN Youmu is hard as fuck, since it's not only an opinion of some scrub shitplayer from fagland but a commonly known fact. I don't see the Finnish 14year-old otakus coming to me and telling which Touhou is the easiest, and neither should you if you don't know the games well enough. I might have worded myself a bit wrongly in the first post, but I hope this clarifies my opinion.

I'm still happy with my survivalist perspective, and considering that, IN is easiest touhou.
You could have said IN is the easiest Touhou to survive in, or IN is the easiest Touhou to clear, you know.

There would at least be some consequence for failing it since you'll have to go through a (from a non-scoring Pov) really long and tedious level for every shot at it. It would certainly make the accomplishment worth more but the question is just whether it would be worth enough? You are not really proving anything by doing it beyond having great levels of patience.
It has the pressure of a full run behind yourself, man. It's not just restartable, you know that there's another full run incoming if you have to do it. The pressure of a full run is huge, it ruined almost a perfect consistency with UFO to levels of zero for me, do not underestimate it.
That's not my point, though. Scoring challenges your patience and precision above anything else.
So does survival, when you want to stay alive. You will have to endure the restarts through the levels and carefully dodge everything. Also, resource management is a huge thing in both cases. I have no idea where you are going at.

chum

Re: Touhou Accomplishments XVI - Not Faily Wars
« Reply #843 on: July 14, 2012, 02:28:27 PM »
This discussion is pointless because I am pretty sure that scoring in any of the games is hard and when someone says IN is the easiest it is already implied that he has survival in mind.

Re: Touhou Accomplishments XVI - Not Faily Wars
« Reply #844 on: July 14, 2012, 02:36:11 PM »
Perfects are perfects.  Especially for Eirin, since no one actually does 6a in a full run, but that's beside the point.  Sure there's more pressure in a full run, but perfects in general show that you have some sort of consistency and are an accomplishment in their own right.  Like Zengy said, what's the point of going through 20 minutes of mostly trivial shit for each attempt?  It's much more efficient to use practice mode so you can learn the stuff that ISN'T trivial and have a much better chance to not screw up when it really matters.

Lepetit89

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Re: Touhou Accomplishments XVI - Not Faily Wars
« Reply #845 on: July 14, 2012, 02:47:47 PM »
The point of getting through trivial shit is exactly that - simulating the real situation. Consistency in this sense implies that you do have the skill do all of that in a single run, a perfect stage with all that pressure building up is much more impressive than something done with savestates or practice, no matter how you look at it.

ふねん1

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Re: Touhou Accomplishments XVI - Not Faily Wars
« Reply #846 on: July 14, 2012, 03:09:52 PM »
How about an actual achievement? Well, at least I view it as one. :V Finally recaptured Vajra, plus I seem to be overcoming the despair I feel over this stage to some extent.
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Re: Touhou Accomplishments XVI - Not Faily Wars
« Reply #847 on: July 14, 2012, 03:11:27 PM »
You could have said IN is the easiest Touhou to survive in, or IN is the easiest Touhou to clear, you know.

Which was hardly necessary since it was a statement made in context of a no-miss no bombs run. For someone to say that "IN is the easiest Touhou ever" upon finishing a flawless run of the final boss is the same as to say "IN is the easiest Touhou ever to survive in." except there's more words in the latter.


Quote
It has the pressure of a full run behind yourself, man. It's not just restartable, you know that there's another full run incoming if you have to do it. The pressure of a full run is huge, it ruined almost a perfect consistency with UFO to levels of zero for me, do not underestimate it.

I don't. I am fully aware of that as I have been playing quite a number of full runs myself and while I haven't been gunning for score on any of them outside of Mountain of Faith, I know that it's always harder to perform within a full run. To insist on doing things in the middle of a run does indeed add extra tension because you'll have to repeat a long stretch of gameplay should you fail but it does turn it into more of a contest of patience than it needs to.

What I want when I pursue a timeout challenge is to get a run where I survive against X-spell for X-seconds. I don't want to test how many times I feel like playing through a game where basically 90% of the gameplay is bullets moving in slow-motion. I'd rather just focus on that actually hard bit I want to pacify. That is simply far more efficient and I value efficiency far higher than some extra handicap. The argument of the added tension that a full run brings is much more valid with perfecting things because that's a thing you'd actually want to do in a run. Timing things out is not. Timing things out is more a sort of practice that can still be hard to do flawlessly.

nintendonut888

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Re: Touhou Accomplishments XVI - Not Faily Wars
« Reply #848 on: July 14, 2012, 03:56:57 PM »

A nice contrast to the one I posted in the fail thread, I think.

Well, congratulations. You have a lot more tolerance for Eirin if you caught her last spell along with the perfect. Good job! :)
nintendonut888: Hey Baity. I beat the high score for Sanae B hard on the score.dat you sent me. X3
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Re: Touhou Accomplishments XVI - Not Faily Wars
« Reply #849 on: July 14, 2012, 04:19:36 PM »


Nhgngnhnhn. All Lunatic, Extra and Last Word spellcards captured. Out of the entire bunch, Fantasy Heaven took the most attempts with a whopping 87 tries. Ouch.

BT

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Re: Touhou Accomplishments XVI - Not Faily Wars
« Reply #850 on: July 14, 2012, 05:14:45 PM »
Well, that's nice, I just randomly timed out Brilliant Dragon Bullet from the center again. Like, out of the blue n'stuff.

SirChaotick

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Re: Touhou Accomplishments XVI - Not Faily Wars
« Reply #851 on: July 14, 2012, 05:24:29 PM »
HAHA. HAHA. HAHAHAHAHA.

I watched Ace's SA normal 1cc and I wondered why the hell I was having so much trouble with it. So I tried it. And I did the SA normal 1cc. With two lives to spare.

HAHA. HAHA. HAHAHAHAHAHAAAA!

Excuse me for my exaggerated response to this feat, but I am hopped up on dopamin right now.
Only thing is, next up is the UFO normal 1cc. I have no idea what's waiting for me, but forum buzz tells me it isn't very nice.
Still. I beat the hell crow. HAHA. HA.  :D
« Last Edit: July 14, 2012, 06:02:36 PM by SirChaotick »

Zil

Re: Touhou Accomplishments XVI - Not Faily Wars
« Reply #852 on: July 14, 2012, 07:00:33 PM »
Cleared GFW Extra at 90fps. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OD01cJOyqFg

This argument is ridiculous. You can't speak of difficulty without stating an objective, and if the person doesn't, you should assume 'beating the game' to be the objective, since the game has a very clear. built-in distinction between success and failure. The difficulty in scoring depends entirely on the score you're trying to get, the methods you're using. 1cc difficulty is more or less constant, while scoring difficulty is completely variable. For that reason, I would say that even mentioning 'difficulty' in the first place implies that you're just trying to survive, considering the ambiguity of using the word when referring to a score run.

And I'm glad to see PoDD getting some attention here.

Byaaakuren

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Re: Touhou Accomplishments XVI - Not Faily Wars
« Reply #853 on: July 14, 2012, 07:11:19 PM »
I know several actually good scorerunners who will back me up when I say that IN Youmu is hard as fuck, since it's not only an opinion of some scrub shitplayer from fagland but a commonly known fact. I don't see the Finnish 14year-old otakus coming to me and telling which Touhou is the easiest, and neither should you if you don't know the games well enough. I might have worded myself a bit wrongly in the first post, but I hope this clarifies my opinion.
You could have said IN is the easiest Touhou to survive in, or IN is the easiest Touhou to clear, you know.
It has the pressure of a full run behind yourself, man. It's not just restartable, you know that there's another full run incoming if you have to do it. The pressure of a full run is huge, it ruined almost a perfect consistency with UFO to levels of zero for me, do not underestimate it.So does survival, when you want to stay alive. You will have to endure the restarts through the levels and carefully dodge everything. Also, resource management is a huge thing in both cases. I have no idea where you are going at.

Oh god, I can't even remember how many times I had to restart IN Easy with Youmu because I kept doing stupid things  in the beginning with score in mind. :ohdear:
Same for UFO Easy when I messed up a UFO summon on Stage 3 or even 4

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Aeteas

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Re: Touhou Accomplishments XVI - Not Faily Wars
« Reply #854 on: July 14, 2012, 11:14:20 PM »
UFO Lunatic 1cc !!!

Now I should go back and learn how to dodge stuff instead of bombing all of it.

Re: Touhou Accomplishments XVI - Not Faily Wars
« Reply #855 on: July 15, 2012, 02:30:20 AM »
Aha...ha...haaa...I have done it.

Marine Benefit Normal: no deaths, no bombs, PERFECT RUN.

This was my first 1CC of Marine Benefit in the latest version, in which endings have been implemented. So this was the first time I've ever seen an ending in this game.

I have never been so happy to see an ending sequence in all my life, because I really, really earned it.

Going to annotate the video soon, but in the meantime...still shaking. Still can't even believe it's actually over.

Kaze_Senshi

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Re: Touhou Accomplishments XVI - Not Faily Wars
« Reply #856 on: July 15, 2012, 03:22:46 AM »
http://replays.gensokyou.org/download.php?id=22549



Heyeyeayeyaeyaeyayeayeayeayeya noob accomplishment here, my first 1CC in one Touhou-game, I beat PCB - easy mode with 0 lifes and 0 bombs, if the spell were some seconds longer this post could be in the fail session :P




« Last Edit: July 15, 2012, 03:46:27 AM by Kaze_Senshi »
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BT

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Re: Touhou Accomplishments XVI - Not Faily Wars
« Reply #857 on: July 15, 2012, 10:24:13 AM »
Beat Komachi w/ Reimu on the first round. ...On Hard. Welp. That didn't feel that challenging.

I'm mainly trying to unlock everything now because I'm tired of being THIS close but THIS far from clearing Lunatic with "good" characters.

Re: Touhou Accomplishments XVI - Not Faily Wars
« Reply #858 on: July 15, 2012, 11:08:52 AM »
Marine Benefit Normal: no deaths, no bombs, PERFECT RUN.

I don't know how tough Normal mode is in that game but you still deserve congrats for perfecting a full game. Nicely done.
« Last Edit: July 15, 2012, 06:33:07 PM by Zengeku »

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Re: Touhou Accomplishments XVI - Not Faily Wars
« Reply #859 on: July 15, 2012, 01:33:35 PM »
YAY FINALLY CLEARED 10D EXTRA! And it was way too random. I was wondering what to do, and after ordering some earphones from Amazon because Apple earphones SUCK I randomly played 10D after not touching it for months, and chose Extra, clearing it in my first try in a long damn while.(The PCB Lunatic 1cc happened in exactly the same way, btw.)

I sense that such a thing won't happen with Nue, however... :colonveeplusalpha:

(Anyway: http://replays.gensokyou.org/download.php?id=22557)

Re: Touhou Accomplishments XVI - Not Faily Wars
« Reply #860 on: July 15, 2012, 06:49:03 PM »
I managed to finally do a Let's Play of UFO Lunatic/Extra. So that's a big accomplishment for me. Now to do a NBNUFO run...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kwDse7zxPys
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_GrV2iIlEgc&

Chuckolator

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Re: Touhou Accomplishments XVI - Not Faily Wars
« Reply #861 on: July 15, 2012, 11:04:22 PM »
Played a fun run of IN 6b. Failed 10/11 cards, the one I captured was?Life Spring Infinity?

Those people just won't stop messing with me.
« Last Edit: July 15, 2012, 11:07:41 PM by Seiga Kaku »
Aiming to perfect every stage in Touhou. loljk don't care anymore You can find my perfects here or here.
Best perfects so far include UFO 6, MoF 4 and IN 6A.

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Re: Touhou Accomplishments XVI - Not Faily Wars
« Reply #862 on: July 16, 2012, 01:42:14 AM »
Perfect lunatic Meiling.

That last nonspell...I hate it.

Yay Flower Dream Vine consistency.

Re: Touhou Accomplishments XVI - Not Faily Wars
« Reply #863 on: July 16, 2012, 04:23:31 AM »
Kana Klear.

First mid-tier PoDD 1cc.

Spoiler:
So hard right now.


Grats on your 1cc, chum.  And grats to everyone behind those SA 1ccs.  Seeing those zillion-spare-lives clears almost makes me want to challenge the game again.  Almost.
eb: there should be a shmup that is sort of like podd minus the versus shit
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Chuckolator

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Re: Touhou Accomplishments XVI - Not Faily Wars
« Reply #864 on: July 16, 2012, 05:07:56 AM »
Perfect lunatic Meiling.
Spoiler:
now do the whole stage
Congrats! I've heard bad things about her lunatic appearance. >_>
Aiming to perfect every stage in Touhou. loljk don't care anymore You can find my perfects here or here.
Best perfects so far include UFO 6, MoF 4 and IN 6A.

formerly known as Seiga Kaku

I have no name

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Re: Touhou Accomplishments XVI - Not Faily Wars
« Reply #865 on: July 16, 2012, 05:14:10 AM »
And grats to everyone behind those SA 1ccs.  Seeing those zillion-spare-lives clears almost makes me want to challenge the game again.  Almost.
I had no lives left on mine  :ohdear:

Spoiler:
now do the whole stage
Congrats! I've heard bad things about her lunatic appearance. >_>
It was a 1DNB run of the whole stage, I don't really feel like doing it again.  Meiling isn't that bad actually, just be good at random dodging and don't screw up the last nonspell.

Jx31

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Re: Touhou Accomplishments XVI - Not Faily Wars
« Reply #866 on: July 16, 2012, 05:38:35 AM »
90 fps MoF normal 1cc

Much harder than I expected it to be : /.

Re: Touhou Accomplishments XVI - Not Faily Wars
« Reply #867 on: July 16, 2012, 12:20:20 PM »
Timed out "Profound Danmaku Bounded Field -Phantasm, Foam and Shadow-". I'm such a sly bastard.

8====D

redlakitu

Re: Touhou Accomplishments XVI - Not Faily Wars
« Reply #868 on: July 16, 2012, 06:59:49 PM »
I'm getting back to Touhou after a rather long break. Messing around with IN, I was able to capture quite a few spell cards for the first time, for example: Earth Light Ray, Omoikane's Device, Apollo 13 and Astronomical Entombing (all on Normal); Red Eyes Hypnosis and Tele-Mesmerism (on Hard); and... Invisible Full Moon on Lunatic, not to mention quite a few Hard and Lunatic nonspells and earlier spell cards.

My skill level before the break could be best summed up as "able to get a Normal mode 1cc, but struggles with most spell cards after Stage 3", so I'm rather happy with those captures. Now I should actually go for a Hard 1cc (or clear an Extra stage, which is my other goal; whichever comes first) instead of listing random spell cards here.

chum

Re: Touhou Accomplishments XVI - Not Faily Wars
« Reply #869 on: July 16, 2012, 07:46:49 PM »
Kana Klear.

First mid-tier PoDD 1cc.

Spoiler:
So hard right now.


Grats on your 1cc, chum.

PoDD is actually one of the best games in the series IMO and I'll definitely try to clear it with some other characters, clearing it with Kana can't be easy so good job with that.

I got an SA lunatic 1cc today, wouldve had 3 lives but me and Utsuho happened to explode at exactly the same time so I ended with 2.

And I guess this is the wrong thread for this but I was trying to unlock UFO stage 5 for practice and I spent probably well over an hour trying to beat it with continues but I was simply unable to! I was also 0.01 seconds away from capturing RTG   :]

Shou is powerful