Maidens of the Kaleidoscope

~Bunbunmaru News~ => Front Page Headlines => Topic started by: Plubio on May 27, 2017, 07:25:50 PM

Title: Yen Press licenses Touhou Suzunaan ~ Forbidden Scrollery
Post by: Plubio on May 27, 2017, 07:25:50 PM
Such in a flash, Yen Press (http://yenpress.com/) (a North-American publisher known for publishing diverse mangas, graphic novels and other Asian graphic-related content) has just licensed Touhou Suzunaan ~ Forbidden Scrollery.
Preorder already opened on Amazon (https://www.amazon.com/Forbidden-Scrollery-Vol-Moe-Harukawa/dp/0316511897/).

Release date is set on November 14th, 2017.
No further details have been determined.
Title: Re: Yen Press licenses Touhou Suzunaan ~ Forbidden Scrollery
Post by: cuc on May 28, 2017, 12:52:02 AM
Yes, it's inevitable from the moment FS was announced, and from a publisher most likely to do it (because Kadokawa bought into them last year (http://yenpress.com/2016/04/exciting-news-about-the-future-of-yen-press/)).

Suzunaan had the best setup as an entry point for people into Touhou, even though it still ended up requiring tons of pre-existing knowledge from readers.

Quote from: Amazon
Forbidden Scrollery, Vol. 1 – November 14, 2017
by Moe Harukawa (Author), ZUN (Artist)

Where else would a girl with the power to translate any tome she sets in her lap reside except a library? Sure, some books may be more dangerous than others, but that's far from discouragement for a true bibliophile like Kosuzu Motoori!

About the Author
ZUN is the creator of the Touhou Project series and wrote the Forbidden Scrollery manga.

Moe Harukawa is the illustrator of the Forbidden Scrollery manga.


Series: Forbidden Scrollery (Book 1)
Paperback: 192 pages
Publisher: Yen Press (November 14, 2017)
Language: English
ISBN-10: 0316511897
ISBN-13: 978-0316511896

Quote from: Yen Press
Sub-Genres
Comics & Graphic Novels / Manga / Fantasy

    Format: Trade Paperback
    ISBN-13: 9780316511896
    Price: $13.00 US / $17.00 CAN
    On Sale Date: 11/14/2017

    Format: Electronic Book
    ISBN-13: 9780316511971
    Price: $6.99 US / $8.99 CAN
    On Sale Date: 11/14/2017

Quote from: Barnes & Noble
Age Range: 13 - 18 Years
Title: Re: Yen Press licenses Touhou Suzunaan ~ Forbidden Scrollery
Post by: Kilgamayan on May 28, 2017, 01:45:14 AM
Day 0 buy holy shit
Title: Re: Yen Press licenses Touhou Suzunaan ~ Forbidden Scrollery
Post by: Lebon14 on May 28, 2017, 01:58:32 AM
I'd like to buy that but I'll wait for translation feedback before comitting myself to it.
Title: Re: Yen Press licenses Touhou Suzunaan ~ Forbidden Scrollery
Post by: TrueShadow on May 28, 2017, 02:12:36 AM
Quote
by Moe Harukawa (Author), ZUN (Artist)
:getdown:
Title: Re: Yen Press licenses Touhou Suzunaan ~ Forbidden Scrollery
Post by: aUsernameIsFineToo on May 28, 2017, 02:31:16 AM
That price. That publisher. AND ON KINDLE TOO!!!!!!!! aaaaaaaaAAAAAAAA!
I'm buying this right away. It's great to know that the official manga is now being sold overseas in English, and I have faith in YP producing good translations as I've read a lot of their licensed works. There's no better way to support ZUN and the artists that make this possible than to buy official works from official sources, so this is a purchase I'm definitely making. Hoping this sets a precedent for more official Touhou content in the West! WaHH would be nice, as would VFiS or anything else I missed!
Title: Re: Yen Press licenses Touhou Suzunaan ~ Forbidden Scrollery
Post by: Plubio on May 28, 2017, 02:49:38 AM
I'd like to buy that but I'll wait for translation feedback before comitting myself to it.

Yeah, that's my biggest concern ? considering how NISA has transtaled some of the PS4 fangames.
Still, I think this is such an exciting announcement. I didn't expect this o:

The downside is paper size I'd say. Paperback is ~30x30mm smaller than original size (A5).
Title: Re: Yen Press licenses Touhou Suzunaan ~ Forbidden Scrollery
Post by: Lebon14 on May 28, 2017, 02:56:35 AM
Yeah, that's my biggest concern ? considering how NISA has transtaled some of the PS4 fangames.
Still, I think this is such an exciting announcement. I didn't expect this o:

Exactly! For exemple, we've known our small Darkness youkai has "Rumia" since the beginning, not "Lumia". If Yen Press preserves names and conserves stuff as we've known them as, I'm all in. I'm buying the manga. I'm mainly a Touhou fan fore lore and mangas afterall...

And, yes, indeed. That's a great news otherwise!
Title: Re: Yen Press licenses Touhou Suzunaan ~ Forbidden Scrollery
Post by: Nook on May 28, 2017, 03:20:58 AM
oh my god i am going to buy all of them

Exactly! For exemple, we've known our small Darkness youkai has "Rumia" since the beginning, not "Lumia". If Yen Press preserves names and conserves stuff as we've known them as, I'm all in. I'm buying the manga. I'm mainly a Touhou fan fore lore and mangas afterall...

And, yes, indeed. That's a great news otherwise!

For what it's worth "Lumia" is probably the "correct" way of spelling her name. There is no official english romanization of it in the games and it's just something the early Touhou fanbase made up, much like Flandre's name.
Title: Re: Yen Press licenses Touhou Suzunaan ~ Forbidden Scrollery
Post by: aListers on May 28, 2017, 03:27:46 AM
I've woken up at 04:00am just to buy it. This is probably a poor decision both for my body clock and my wallet. It's not that expensive either though. It's about the price you'd expect from a book. It'll be nice to have a physical copy of Forbidden Scrollery. I was planning on buying a physical copy of volume 5 even if it was in Japanese. It's good to know I can also get it in a language I understand. This is also a good excuse to re-read all of Forbidden Scrollery.
Title: Re: Yen Press licenses Touhou Suzunaan ~ Forbidden Scrollery
Post by: Lt Colonel Summers on May 28, 2017, 03:39:43 AM
After all the years of unofficial English translations for the entire Touhou franchise, we finally have something that will receive an official English translation.

But I just hope that Yen Press doesn't butcher the Japanese terms into something else. inb4 "Tsukumogami" becomes "Living Items"
Title: Re: Yen Press licenses Touhou Suzunaan ~ Forbidden Scrollery
Post by: commandercool on May 28, 2017, 04:10:37 AM
Preorder placed!

inb4 "Tsukumogami" becomes "Living Items"

Maybe I'm being dumb, but what difference would that make now?
Title: Re: Yen Press licenses Touhou Suzunaan ~ Forbidden Scrollery
Post by: cuc on May 28, 2017, 05:11:47 AM
I, for one, look forward to more "Akyu Hieda" and "Kokoro Hata". Yes, I know these have already been in NISA's localization.

Incidentally, this is actually why I support writing all Japanese-style Touhou names surname first - there are too many aristocrats around, and having three different name orders - Western names, Japanese names in Western order, Japanese aristocrats - is so weird. You can't even excuse it with "but the aristocrats are ancient", when some of these non-aristocrats are far older.
Title: Re: Yen Press licenses Touhou Suzunaan ~ Forbidden Scrollery
Post by: Clarste on May 28, 2017, 05:44:14 AM
One of the NISA games used "Princess Wakasagi".
Title: Re: Yen Press licenses Touhou Suzunaan ~ Forbidden Scrollery
Post by: cuc on May 28, 2017, 05:59:23 AM
One of the NISA games used "Princess Wakasagi".
Yet they kept the honorifics in Genso Wanderer - the enemies are clones of real characters with honorifics attached, like "Yuyuko-sama" and "Futo-san". They seem to expect players to know their "chan" from "san".

"Princess Wakasagi" isn't necessarily wrong, just cumbersome. It makes one want to simply call her "Wakasagi", when the "-hime" part isn't meant to be detachable.
Title: Re: Yen Press licenses Touhou Suzunaan ~ Forbidden Scrollery
Post by: Shadowlupus on May 28, 2017, 06:54:36 AM
I have no solid proof but apparently any Japanese name in Genso Wanderer is translated by the developer himself.

That's why there is still stuff like Shirenbyo, Koumakan and Kishinjo in the game but they are inconsistent. In one scene, it is Hall of Dream's Great Mausoleum but Shinreibyo in the next.

Also, it is Wakasagihime in Genso Wanderer.
Title: Re: Yen Press licenses Touhou Suzunaan ~ Forbidden Scrollery
Post by: PK on May 28, 2017, 08:03:20 AM
oh my god i am going to buy all of them

For what it's worth "Lumia" is probably the "correct" way of spelling her name. There is no official english romanization of it in the games and it's just something the early Touhou fanbase made up, much like Flandre's name.
The wiki has a page about official naming.
https://en.touhouwiki.net/wiki/Characters/Spelling_discrepancies

And apparently Rumia and Flandre along with a bunch of other early characters are official?
Title: Re: Yen Press licenses Touhou Suzunaan ~ Forbidden Scrollery
Post by: N-Forza on May 28, 2017, 08:56:07 AM
Looking forward to this. Hope they hire a writer who actually knows Touhou lore. I don't mind if they deviate from fandom terms (since that's all it ultimately is) if they do it intelligently.
Title: Re: Yen Press licenses Touhou Suzunaan ~ Forbidden Scrollery
Post by: Clarste on May 28, 2017, 09:46:03 AM
I'm not too worried about the names so much as cryptic little references to the plots of the games and whatnot. If you're not deeply familiar with all of Touhou, it's easy to miss that sort of thing and translate it out of existence.
Title: Re: Yen Press licenses Touhou Suzunaan ~ Forbidden Scrollery
Post by: cuc on May 28, 2017, 10:08:13 AM
I'm all prepared to feast on fan tears over what they get wrong, and delight in what they get right.

Another thing I look forward to: their ideas on translating things taboo to fans. There's nothing wrong in rendering Suzunaan as "The Bell Turnip Library", or Kōrindō as "The Fragrant Rain Shop".
Title: Re: Yen Press licenses Touhou Suzunaan ~ Forbidden Scrollery
Post by: cuc on May 28, 2017, 03:53:09 PM
Addenum:
The title is a problem Yen Press can't get away with. They have now taken the shortcut by ditching the main title. This is passable with "Forbidden Scrollery".

But what happens if there is a second season of Touhou Suzunaan? Will, say, "Touhou Suzunaan ~ Books of Paradise." become "Forbidden Scrollery 2: Books of Paradise"?

What happens when they need to do Touhou Sangetsusei? Their subtitles are gibberish that's never going to pass in the English market. At minimum, if they are to only localize VFiS, they'd need to make it "Visionary Fairies in the Shrine", and it'd still not be a very marketable name.
Title: Re: Yen Press licenses Touhou Suzunaan ~ Forbidden Scrollery
Post by: Suspicious person on May 28, 2017, 04:25:50 PM
Looking forward to the terminology we're familiar with getting butchered lol
Title: Re: Yen Press licenses Touhou Suzunaan ~ Forbidden Scrollery
Post by: nyttyn on May 28, 2017, 07:35:51 PM
Or they could just ditch the subtitle there and also call the hypothetical next season "Books of Paradise."

We've already referred to the games and printworks just by the english subtitles for just about for every work so far, including the works with multiple seasons (see: Bougetsushou and Sangetsusei, which are almost never referred to with those, just by the subwork's subtitle in question.) so I'm not terribly surprised here they've chosen to only go for the subtitle here. Hisoutensoku is an exception but it's also unlikely to ever get over here so it can be safely ignored.

I don't really see this as a shortcut here, most fans already either don't care or don't know about the main title and just use the subtitle exclusively. And yes, some of the subtitles are nonsense, but I don't imagine they have any intention of marketing this stuff to anyone who's not already a fan or would be bothered by slightly nonsensical titles. Or even if anything besides FS will find its way over, licensing issues being what they are.

i wonder if they intend on keeping or removing all the erant us in the series (examples: shou ---> sho, akyuu --> akyu).

http://www.hachettebookgroup.com/titles/moe-harukawa/forbidden-scrollery-vol-1/9780316511896/?yen also cool seems it's on their site as well now, just no press release yet.
Title: Re: Yen Press licenses Touhou Suzunaan ~ Forbidden Scrollery
Post by: Lebon14 on May 28, 2017, 10:21:51 PM
Canadian Amazon Link:
https://www.amazon.ca/Forbidden-Scrollery-Vol-Moe-Harukawa/dp/0316511897/

17$ heh...
Title: Re: Yen Press licenses Touhou Suzunaan ~ Forbidden Scrollery
Post by: Clarste on May 29, 2017, 01:04:46 AM
i wonder if they intend on keeping or removing all the erant us in the series (examples: shou ---> sho, akyuu --> akyu).


For the record, I've recently been using Akyu for the Forbidden Scrollery scanslations, and no one's commented on it. So I don't think anyone would care that much.
Title: Re: Yen Press licenses Touhou Suzunaan ~ Forbidden Scrollery
Post by: Hello Purvis on May 29, 2017, 01:31:30 AM
Sho would be much weirder than Akyu, to be fair. I used to use Akyu, maybe sometimes still do.

Also, preordered thanks to powers of birthday~
Title: Re: Yen Press licenses Touhou Suzunaan ~ Forbidden Scrollery
Post by: Clarste on May 29, 2017, 02:45:43 AM
I don't think Shou has ever come up by name in Forbidden Scrollery, actually. Or any of the comics.
Title: Re: Yen Press licenses Touhou Suzunaan ~ Forbidden Scrollery
Post by: TrueShadow on May 29, 2017, 04:03:25 AM
Did Shinmyoumaru's species ever been mentioned in FS? I think they're probably going with "Lilliputian" (that's her FS title) or just keep it as "kobito". Will we keep using "inchling" or follow them?
Title: Re: Yen Press licenses Touhou Suzunaan ~ Forbidden Scrollery
Post by: N-Forza on May 29, 2017, 09:31:27 AM
If they have any sense they'll ditch "inchling" and go with "gnome."

NO I'M NOT BITTER
Title: Re: Yen Press licenses Touhou Suzunaan ~ Forbidden Scrollery
Post by: the old guy on May 29, 2017, 10:04:28 AM
Gnome remains me of creepy garden gnomes too much for me to like it. I'd perfer Inchling. Sorry.
Title: Re: Yen Press licenses Touhou Suzunaan ~ Forbidden Scrollery
Post by: N-Forza on May 29, 2017, 12:32:26 PM
That's like objecting to calling Yuyuko a ghost because she looks nothing like Casper.
Title: Re: Yen Press licenses Touhou Suzunaan ~ Forbidden Scrollery
Post by: TrueShadow on May 29, 2017, 12:47:36 PM
I opened a can of worms, didn't I...?

Before this spread further, my question was whether we follow Yen Press' translations or keep using the ones we've been using. This isn't limited to 'kobito', but also other possible differences.
Title: Re: Yen Press licenses Touhou Suzunaan ~ Forbidden Scrollery
Post by: N-Forza on May 29, 2017, 12:59:33 PM
I honestly don't think it matters one way or another, although people who manage to get into Touhou through their translations might be a little confused at first if the current fandom doesn't accept the new terminology.
Title: Re: Yen Press licenses Touhou Suzunaan ~ Forbidden Scrollery
Post by: Spotty Len on May 29, 2017, 04:37:42 PM
So is Suika a Japanese goblin yet?
Title: Re: Yen Press licenses Touhou Suzunaan ~ Forbidden Scrollery
Post by: martelefort on May 29, 2017, 04:49:39 PM
So is Suika a Japanese goblin yet?

Ahaha that would be hilarious. I don't know anything about Japanese, but wouldn't Oni be something like " demon " or " ogre " if they have to translate it ?
Title: Re: Yen Press licenses Touhou Suzunaan ~ Forbidden Scrollery
Post by: TrueShadow on May 29, 2017, 05:35:44 PM
Crow Sky Dog Reporter, Aya Shameimaru
Title: Re: Yen Press licenses Touhou Suzunaan ~ Forbidden Scrollery
Post by: Lt Colonel Summers on May 30, 2017, 12:58:11 AM
Crow Sky Dog Reporter, Aya Shameimaru

They might go with "Sky Elf" if they don't want to sound ridiculously silly.
Speaking of which, at least they're not going the 4Kids route of butchering all things non-American. :V

Adding to that...
Kappa > goblins
Youkai > monsters
Youma books > evil/demon tomes
Umatsuki > horse-head phantom

That's all I got at the moment...
Title: Re: Yen Press licenses Touhou Suzunaan ~ Forbidden Scrollery
Post by: TresserT on May 30, 2017, 01:29:16 AM
Honestly.... I never understood why some things were translated as they are in the first place. Certain things like Amanojaku or Kappa or Tengu have no obvious western equivalent, but really, what's wrong with translating "youkai" as "monster"? They pretty much have the same connotation, especially with things like pokemon and monster rancher being popular in the west...

It's even funnier, since we translate certain things, like Inchling, Celestial, or Hermit, which have pretty different connotations than the original word. Not that I'm suggesting these get changed, it's just kind of like, why get so worked up if someone has an equally valid, just different interpretation of a word?
Title: Re: Yen Press licenses Touhou Suzunaan ~ Forbidden Scrollery
Post by: TrueShadow on May 30, 2017, 02:16:13 AM
As an Asian, what connotations do 'hermit' have in the West? I've always thought of them as those guys who train in some secluded places to get superpowers.

What's the original words for Celestial and Lunarians again?
Title: Re: Yen Press licenses Touhou Suzunaan ~ Forbidden Scrollery
Post by: TresserT on May 30, 2017, 02:27:47 AM
In the west, hermit really just means someone who secludes themselves from the rest of the world. Think, like, hermit crab. They hide in their shells. The word has a somewhat religious meaning, sometimes. It does describe people like Miko very well, it just doesn't exactly have quite the same meaning as the original word.

Celestial is Tennin (天人). I'm no translator at all, mind you. It's just that Celestial has connotations in English that don't really apply to touhou Celestials. Celestial usually refers either to space, such as the planets or stars, or godly beings. Like, "Holy Being" or "Angel" give a similar impression, I think. If you're using it in the second sense, it's a pretty Christian thing.

Lunarian is Tsukibito (月人), which I think probably gets the same point across.

And again, not that I'm really trying to argue that these words should be changed, cause they do get across the point pretty well. It's the opposite, actually, I think it's silly that someone would say "translating youkai into monster is dumb", since monster is close enough to youkai, just like how celestial is close enough to tennin and hermit is close enough to sennin. It feels kind of like a double standard, almost.
Title: Re: Yen Press licenses Touhou Suzunaan ~ Forbidden Scrollery
Post by: Clarste on May 30, 2017, 03:16:43 AM
In English, Nemuno would be considered a hermit, by the most common definition of the word. It doesn't imply "training" at all, just isolation. Similarly, someone who trained in secluded place but then rejoined society would no longer be a hermit, so it doesn't describe someone like Kasen very well, since she seems quite social and goes on walks through town and whatnot.

Monster has specific negative connotations that youkai doesn't, imo. Like, if you call someone a monster, that means something very specific. And you can do this in Japanese too! Calling someone a bakemono is very different from calling someone a youkai. So while in some circumstances monster could work, I don't think it's a good universal term for a series that uses it constantly.

What I find particularly interesting here is that Nintendo kept the word Yokai in Yokai Watch, targeted towards kids. So there's actually a push by a large company to turn yokai into a word that people might be familiar with in English. It also shows up in other Western works like Big Hero 10, and this indie game I just bought the other day called Starcrawlers, which has Cyberninjas come from the starship Yokai. The point being that I wouldn't be too surprised if Yen Press leaves it as yokai.
Title: Re: Yen Press licenses Touhou Suzunaan ~ Forbidden Scrollery
Post by: Drake on May 30, 2017, 05:34:42 AM
but really, what's wrong with translating "youkai" as "monster"? They pretty much have the same connotation, especially with things like pokemon and monster rancher being popular in the west...
Mainly because youkai typically refer to a certain kind of fictional creature. Touhou has kind of worked it to become its own thing but I think it's identifiable enough that a generic "monster" loses something and also gains unnecessary connotations. I also agree that the fact Yo-kai Watch exists gives it some decent precedence and personally I hope the trend continues.

And speaking of other series that give precedence to specific terms, the fact that Naruto has 仙人 translated as Hermit (ignoring that it also is called Sage in different contexts...) is probably one reason it's somewhat acknowledged. Again though, Touhou re-interprets the cultural expectation of what a "hermit" is and makes it its own, leading to our two main icons of hermits in the series each not really filling those cultural expectations.
Title: Re: Yen Press licenses Touhou Suzunaan ~ Forbidden Scrollery
Post by: the old guy on May 31, 2017, 03:48:01 AM
That's like objecting to calling Yuyuko a ghost because she looks nothing like Casper.

Not really, Ghosts have a pretty far reaching range in terms of depiction in fiction. You have some that look like Casper. But then you have ones that look like normal human beings like The Ghosts of Christmas Past, Present and Future.

Gnomes have always looked like small guys with red hats. Never anything else. And Sukuna is Japanese, Gnomes are British. It would be like calling Aya an Harpie.
Title: Re: Yen Press licenses Touhou Suzunaan ~ Forbidden Scrollery
Post by: Flandre5carlet on May 31, 2017, 03:46:01 PM
I really hope the translation will be done by someone who is familiar with the universe, or else I think there'll be many nonsensical things or translated terms that "shouldn't" really be translated, to me, like Youkai. Well, I guess it'd be logical to translate them, it'd just feel off to me.

I, for one, look forward to more "Akyu Hieda" and "Kokoro Hata". Yes, I know these have already been in NISA's localization.

What's wrong with Hata no Kokoro and Hieda no Akyu(u)? Honest question, since you're not the first person I see say something like this.
Title: Re: Yen Press licenses Touhou Suzunaan ~ Forbidden Scrollery
Post by: nyttyn on May 31, 2017, 05:54:59 PM
What's wrong with Hata no Kokoro and Hieda no Akyu(u)? Honest question, since you're not the first person I see say something like this.

For the "no" issue, it's kind of...well, it more or less means that Akyuu is "Akyuu of the Hieda [Clan]." It's a hold-over from old Japan where aristocrats would be "of the [clan name]" instead of it being a proper surname. Names don't really work that way in English, and it'd be incredibly awkward to write out "of the" every time, so you wind up with "[Clan Name] no [First Name]." 

The reason why the Touhou Wiki keeps it over is a belief in a literal translation over a liberal one by some translators, which is the ever-present ideological divide going on behind any sufficiently large fan translation effort, especially for open-source wikis. This is a case where it sounds super awkward in english, so I fully expect yen press to simply make all names first last, including all the various aristrocat conventions (like miko and futo).

Inconsistencies between the official localization and the wiki like that are just going to be part and parcel with this release, since the wiki's such a multi-headed hydra that's been added to over the years by so many various contributors of varying beliefs on the literal vs liberal translation and varying skill levels. I'm glad it's there, and it's a good resource, but I wouldn't be surprised if yen press outright ignores its existence when doing their TL effort due to the prior mentioned issues.

As for the random us getting removed - I believe it's because they're silent or something along those lines? So that's why you'll see things like Akyu instead of Akyuu, Yuka instead of Yuuka, or Sho instead of Shou. This is a bit more subjective as far as I understand it, so who knows how yen press will handle it.

Quote
Gnomes have always looked like small guys with red hats. Never anything else.

Err, no. Their traits have changed over the years to suit various authors, but the one constant in almost all works of fiction that use the term "gnome" is that they've always been tiny humanoid beings whom live underground. A garden gnome (short dudes in red hats that you're thinking of) might be the most iconic image for many individuals, but it's more akin to a sub-class of the idea of a gnome (in fact, garden gnomes themselves are a relatively recent introduction to the western canon). In this case, if they didn't want to go with inchling or kobito, the term gnome would perfectly fit what Sukuna's race is (small humanoids whom live underground).

small edit but i do hope they stick with inchling or kobito because gnome still sounds really dumb in comparison even if it does fit.
Title: Re: Yen Press licenses Touhou Suzunaan ~ Forbidden Scrollery
Post by: D-T on May 31, 2017, 06:08:28 PM
Akyu von Hieda
Moko von Fujiwara
Futo von Mononobe

(this joke)

The main thing is that there's basically no reason to represent in English the extended vowels. The difference in pronunciation is so subtle that it's just not going to happen.
Title: Re: Yen Press licenses Touhou Suzunaan ~ Forbidden Scrollery
Post by: Flandre5carlet on May 31, 2017, 06:10:54 PM
Well, I mean, I know what the no stands for, I'm just wondering why some think First/Last is preferable, whether keeping the "no" or switching to some sort of English equivalent such as "of the."

I suppose names don't work that way in English, and that's fair - but the way I see it, these aren't English names, they're Japanese names. They're not necessarily supposed to work the same, and I think translating them to simply First/Last loses part of the name's meaning. It might be because English isn't my primary language, but I don't really see "Akyuu of the Hieda (clan)" as any particularly clumsier than "Hieda no Akyuu" either - to me both simply sound old and archaic.
Title: Re: Yen Press licenses Touhou Suzunaan ~ Forbidden Scrollery
Post by: nyttyn on May 31, 2017, 06:40:57 PM
They aren't supposed to work the same, no, but there's a lot of nuances in Japanese that don't really come over into english. We don't use honorifics in english at all, for example - sometimes there are english titles that are suited to replace the honorific in question, but you aren't going to add a Mr for every -san, for example, because english just doesn't flow well if it's Mr or Miss XYZ every time their name comes up.

Most localizations do not attempt to keep things like "X no Y" because...well, there's technically a meaning, but it's ultimately an small one that's completely lost when you try to shoe-horn it into english. Like, take Akyuu for example - Forbidden Scrollery is already able to convey she's utterly loaded and a person of high import pretty well through things like the villagers turning to her for guidance, and her able to casually have books printed in a setting where this is established as being utterly expensive. Making her "Akyuu of the Hieda" or "Hieda no Akyuu" means utterly nothing to a english reader picking up forbidden scrollery without a knowledge of japanese terminology, and if anything will just read awkwardly to them, all to convey a point that the rest of FS already emphasizes pretty well.

Take Miko as another example. She's already referred to as "Crown Prince" (or Princess, in NISA's case), and is already reveled by a lot of followers in just about all of her appearances. This already gets the point across, and in a way that makes sense in english - she could even be referred to as "Lord Miko" or "Lady Miko" or the like and, again, point would be made without the need for a name structure that's bizarre and meaningless in english without outside context or translators notes.

These are the kind of concerns that aren't really important to a fan translation effort, due to the much smaller and devoted audience who will care about this sort of thing, but are much more important to a official localization effort like this which will be aiming to be sold to more casual readers who may be put off by confusing or awkward terminology or structure that means nothing in english without context they're never going to bother looking up, which can be nigh-impossible! Like, seriously. Go ahead and try googling "japanese of the name" or "japanese no name" or "why do japanese names have no in them" or something like that, you're not going to get anywhere anytime fast without digging considerably deeply, way deeper than most people can be bothered to do.
Title: Re: Yen Press licenses Touhou Suzunaan ~ Forbidden Scrollery
Post by: Plubio on May 31, 2017, 08:17:29 PM
As for the random us getting removed - I believe it's because they're silent or something along those lines? So that's why you'll see things like Akyu instead of Akyuu, Yuka instead of Yuuka, or Sho instead of Shou. This is a bit more subjective as far as I understand it, so who knows how yen press will handle it.

It's because the 'ou' romanization means a large "oo" sound in Japanese (rather than silent).
The same reason you say "To-oho-o" (or something along the lines) and not "tou hou". I don't really remember why this was romanised like that.

This is somewhat an 'important' matter on Japanese language. For example, "shufu" (主婦) meanse "housewife", while "shuufu" (醜婦) means "ugly woman".
We can spend a day like this, there're tons of words with this issue.

Still not sure at all about the "u" thing tho. Maybe it is about English pronunciation or something similar? I don't really know but would be great if someone could enlighten me there.
Title: Re: Yen Press licenses Touhou Suzunaan ~ Forbidden Scrollery
Post by: Suwako Moriya on May 31, 2017, 08:34:42 PM
It was romanized as Touhou because romanizing it as Toohoo leads to people pronouncing it as two who. (Hence the somewhat common "2hu" shorthand.)
Title: Re: Yen Press licenses Touhou Suzunaan ~ Forbidden Scrollery
Post by: aListers on May 31, 2017, 09:07:44 PM
To be honest we have been quite inconsistent with the 'u's. Shouldn't "Gensokyo" be "Gensoukyou" yet nobody actually writes Gensoukyou. I mean should we not at least use a line above the O or something?

I mean, I'll probably be the first to complain about the translation but I'm ok with things like "Kokoro Hata" and "Mokou Fujiwara" as I pretty much already refer to them like that anyway. I still want fandom consistent translations (I'd straight up prefer them) but I'm ok with a bit of leeway. I'll probably have a problem with something though - I always do.
Title: Re: Yen Press licenses Touhou Suzunaan ~ Forbidden Scrollery
Post by: Plubio on May 31, 2017, 09:30:20 PM
It was romanized as Touhou because romanizing it as Toohoo leads to people pronouncing it as two who. (Hence the somewhat common "2hu" shorthand.)

Oh, no. I wasn't talking about Touhou there ? sorry if it looked like that.
I was talking about "oo" sound being "ou", not just on the Touhou case.

EDIT: eh. I just realised it was romanized as "ou" because Japanese people write those sounds as "ou" as well.
I'm so stupid.
Title: Re: Yen Press licenses Touhou Suzunaan ~ Forbidden Scrollery
Post by: N-Forza on June 01, 2017, 02:17:32 AM
There are several ways to romanize elongated vowels, some more arbitrary than others, but I prefer going on a case-by-case basis personally. I try to include as many as possible unless it has a greater potential for mispronunciation. It's why I've tended towards "yokai" instead of "youkai" as of late.

And thanks for having my back nyttyn. I don't have much time to argue my points this week, heh.
Title: Re: Yen Press licenses Touhou Suzunaan ~ Forbidden Scrollery
Post by: Shadowlupus on June 01, 2017, 03:39:17 AM
In Thai's official release of FS, the no in Akyuu's name is kept as is. Only the tone marks are restricted here and there. Admittedly, it was the admin who translates it but the publisher still mess with his translation for no good reason.

In my (maybe stupid) opinion, what's wrong with awkward-to-read name anyway? There are people with von or de in their name or just have a really long middle name, yet those are kept but Japanese names are cut off? What kind of double standard is this?

I think it is buyer's own fault for picking up a Japanese manga and not knowing it's a JAPANESE manga. No offense, but I think it is yet another case of "We don't understand Japanese terminology cuz we outside readers have been living under the rocks and not knowing Japanese honorifics/terminology exists." or "We know they exist but we won't bother to learn/ask/acknowledge it for our own convenience."

Thailand is a part of Asian, yes but we don't have anything in common with Japanese. In anime or manga like Doraemon, people can just read names like Nobita-san or Dorayaki without problems so why the western is the only one with problems like this? It just baffles me.
Title: Re: Yen Press licenses Touhou Suzunaan ~ Forbidden Scrollery
Post by: Clarste on June 01, 2017, 03:58:55 AM
Kokoro Hatano
Akyu Hiedano
Title: Re: Yen Press licenses Touhou Suzunaan ~ Forbidden Scrollery
Post by: Drake on June 01, 2017, 05:10:28 AM
A thought, now I'm kind of wondering how they'll handle the relationship with the overarching setting. It's easy when the fandom will implicitly know things, but the current-event ties to the games, other works, along with any previous knowledge, isn't going to be there for unfamiliar readers. It isn't like FS is all that self-contained. Margin comments can do some of the work but clearly to a wider audience 90% of the characters won't make much sense. Is there going to be a case where it'll be like "look into the original works lol!!!" or what
Title: Re: Yen Press licenses Touhou Suzunaan ~ Forbidden Scrollery
Post by: Flandre5carlet on June 01, 2017, 10:14:10 AM
-snip-

Those are fair points, but at the end of the day I just kind of fail to see why it's big enough of a deal that the translation should pretty much change the character's name for the sake of simplicity.

As was said before me, as an example, we have German characters (whether in Japanese works or in other languages) whose name include the German equivalent of that no: Von. Those don't get translated though, I have no memory of a work where a character's name was altered to drop that Von altogether. It's kept and it's up to the reader to look up "Hey why do those three German characters all have Von in their name" if they don't know what it means.

It's similar here - the only real difference being that with the way Japanese names work this reverses first name and surname. Nothing that can't be explained with a simple TL note or even a page of explanation at the end. Wouldn't nearly be the first time I've seen a manga localization with either of these things, I find that much more preferable than losing on authenticity by "translating" the name to drop the no altogether.
Title: Re: Yen Press licenses Touhou Suzunaan ~ Forbidden Scrollery
Post by: TrueShadow on June 01, 2017, 10:52:54 AM
Things get weirder with Miko. As far as I know, "Toyosatomimi" isn't even a family or clan name. It's a title, meaning something like "great ears".

So "Toyosatomimi no Miko" means "Miko the Great-Eared".

Even more complicated, "Miko" can also be taken as a title meaning "God's Child" instead of a name. So "Toyosatomimi no Miko" as a whole can be translated as "The Great-eared God Child".

In conclusion, ancient Japanese names and titles suck.
Title: Re: Yen Press licenses Touhou Suzunaan ~ Forbidden Scrollery
Post by: nyttyn on June 01, 2017, 12:22:19 PM
The end result of a localization isn't to 100% preserve every single nuance and detail, but to bring over all the important stuff and as many minor details as possible while still, well, localizing it. Doing things like changing jokes to still be pop references, but pop references that make sense in English.

This isn't a case of "changing someone's name," because they're still Kokoro Hata, Miko Toyosatomimi, and Akyuu Hieda, the important parts (the first and last name) are still all there. This is removing something that's already a minor detail in the source detail. As for why something like "von" tends to be kept - it's a question of it still being in use (and thus, being an actually relevant part of the name, unlike no which hasn't been used in ages), and perhaps more importantly, having been included in the western canon enough times that most people who've read at least a few books or watched a few shows with german influences get what the heck's up with a name with "von" in it.  That's the most important distinction here - von has context in western literature. No (at least, as a part of a name) does not, and thus is axed because it has no sense and no meaning as it has not been used in ages and was never used in the western canon, and thus has no context.

And TL's notes are a last resort, not a first, for things that simply cannot be conveyed otherwise. If every small detail that couldn't carry over 1:1 perfectly got a TL note, the margins would be utterly unreadable, or there'd be a enormous reference section at the back of the book that nobody wants to bother with. This isn't like, a history book or something - it's meant for entertainment, and that's why we're going to have these small liberties taken with the source material. You can feel it's stupid all you want, and that's totally fine! But come into this localization with tempered expectations, because it's again, a localization. It's going to include small changes like this where no real meaning is lost, because it's something that's utterly meaningless in english due to a lack of context. There's plenty of stuff that'll remind you this is Touhou and japanese (example: Kogasa. All of Kogasa.), so I wouldn't worry unless they start changing things like rice balls to jelly doughnuts.

That brings me back to the reason why Thailand's localization is different from, say, NISA's localization - because it's a different country, which has had far more exposure to Japanese media. You cannot expect a localization for Thailand to have the same translation as one for America and Canada (and any other english speaking country that can get a copy of this), because they have context due to cultural osmosis that the west does not.

Also Miko's name is based on an alias, which is why it's something dumb and absurd. Frankly I wouldn't be surprised if it comes out Miko herself had chosen that name before awakening in Gensokyo for the sake of having as bombastic an entrance as possible.
Title: Re: Yen Press licenses Touhou Suzunaan ~ Forbidden Scrollery
Post by: Shadowlupus on June 01, 2017, 02:40:33 PM
Fair enough, I still can't get over the fact about the lack of exposure of Japanese/Asian culture tho. I will always blame 4kids for pioneering the trend of denying Japan/Asia's existence in localization.


On another topic, I'm interested in how they are going to handle stuffs like;

Vol.1
- Youma book
- Marisa's way of talking
- Organ/Organic farming pun
- Youkai extermination (plz don't mess up this terminology)
- Names like Enenra, Night Parade picture scroll and Bunbuku Chagama

Vol. 2
- UMA or cryptids
- Dance of the Empty-Hearted Masks: Noh of Darkness (either way, meaningless for non-HM players)
- Shinkirou (This is the most problematic of all.)
- Kutsutsura

That's all for the volumes they are planning to do.
Title: Re: Yen Press licenses Touhou Suzunaan ~ Forbidden Scrollery
Post by: Prime32 on June 01, 2017, 03:40:00 PM
I could have sworn the spelling "Yuka" used to be more common, and there was an effort to correct it to "Yuuka". Partly because of the need to distinguish between "Yukarin" and "Yuukarin". :V

Things get weirder with Miko. As far as I know, "Toyosatomimi" isn't even a family or clan name. It's a title, meaning something like "great ears".

So "Toyosatomimi no Miko" means "Miko the Great-Eared".

Even more complicated, "Miko" can also be taken as a title meaning "God's Child" instead of a name. So "Toyosatomimi no Miko" as a whole can be translated as "The Great-eared God Child".

In conclusion, ancient Japanese names and titles suck.
"Miko the All-Hearing"

And if they do WaHH: "The Rose Sage", or "Rosy" for short. :V Always refer to her in blurbs as "Kasen Ibaraki, the Rose Sage". In the character intros, put stuff like "Ibara means rose, which is the origin of her pseudonym" and "Incidentally, there was a famous one-armed oni by the name of Ibaraki-douji...".
Title: Re: Yen Press licenses Touhou Suzunaan ~ Forbidden Scrollery
Post by: CyberAngel on June 01, 2017, 04:37:38 PM
Things get weirder with Miko. As far as I know, "Toyosatomimi" isn't even a family or clan name. It's a title, meaning something like "great ears".

So "Toyosatomimi no Miko" means "Miko the Great-Eared".

Even more complicated, "Miko" can also be taken as a title meaning "God's Child" instead of a name. So "Toyosatomimi no Miko" as a whole can be translated as "The Great-eared God Child".

In conclusion, ancient Japanese names and titles suck.

Newsflash: ALL names actually mean something. And it's stupid to translate names, no matter if they come from family or are self-given or whatever.

This isn't a case of "changing someone's name," because they're still Kokoro Hata, Miko Toyosatomimi, and Akyuu Hieda, the important parts (the first and last name) are still all there. This is removing something that's already a minor detail in the source detail. As for why something like "von" tends to be kept - it's a question of it still being in use (and thus, being an actually relevant part of the name, unlike no which hasn't been used in ages), and perhaps more importantly, having been included in the western canon enough times that most people who've read at least a few books or watched a few shows with german influences get what the heck's up with a name with "von" in it.  That's the most important distinction here - von has context in western literature. No (at least, as a part of a name) does not, and thus is axed because it has no sense and no meaning as it has not been used in ages and was never used in the western canon, and thus has no context.

tl;dr using a popular naming convention is fine because it's popular, but it's better to change an unpopular convention because it's unpopular. Instead of, you know, keeping it in to spread the knowledge that it's a thing (and is relevant for historical texts, at least, which is kinda important for understanding Miko's origins, you know). Some circular logic right there, chap.
Title: Re: Yen Press licenses Touhou Suzunaan ~ Forbidden Scrollery
Post by: the old guy on June 01, 2017, 06:19:40 PM
Well, fuck.

Clarste has given up on translating Forbidden Scrollery (http://clarste.tumblr.com/post/161320454871/after-discussing-it-with-people-i-have-decided-to), out of "respect" for Yen Press.

So, when the next chapter comes out that reveals what happens to poor Suzu', all you'll have is maybe someone who can read Japanese giving you a summary of the plot that won't have the same emotional effect as actually seeing the events unfold on screen. And the first part of the Yen Press translation wont even come out until November, and the second part until February. Going by those dates, we probably won't actually see the ending until late 2019 at the earliest, mid 2020 at the latest. How convenient.
Title: Re: Yen Press licenses Touhou Suzunaan ~ Forbidden Scrollery
Post by: Clarste on June 01, 2017, 06:31:47 PM
I just decided that, morally speaking, there's no reason for me to continue.

I suppose it's also worth noting that I've already been contacted by people who want to pick up where I left off. Which... I don't really know how to feel about, but okay.
Title: Re: Yen Press licenses Touhou Suzunaan ~ Forbidden Scrollery
Post by: nyttyn on June 01, 2017, 06:38:51 PM
tl;dr using a popular naming convention is fine because it's popular, but it's better to change an unpopular convention because it's unpopular. Instead of, you know, keeping it in to spread the knowledge that it's a thing (and is relevant for historical texts, at least, which is kinda important for understanding Miko's origins, you know). Some circular logic right there, chap.

You can send a email to yen press if you feel that strongly, I'm just some dude on the Internet speculating that they'll probably take the liberal route since this is a comic and not a historical text.


And let's not be too upset here re translation, it can't be helped. I fully intend to support the official release too, and it bites that worst case scenario this means we won't see the next bit for up to two and a half years, but oh well. At least i hace a direct and official way to financially suport the print works without having to deal with the nightmare that is international ordering. I thank clarste for his work and hope someone else starts translating in the mean time.
Title: Re: Yen Press licenses Touhou Suzunaan ~ Forbidden Scrollery
Post by: Suwako Moriya on June 01, 2017, 06:44:02 PM
(snip)

This and other similar reactions (http://angelofgensokyo.tumblr.com/post/161321917996/clarste-after-discussing-it-with-people-i-have) are not a great way to encourage translators to continue doing their thing for this fandom.
Title: Re: Yen Press licenses Touhou Suzunaan ~ Forbidden Scrollery
Post by: aListers on June 01, 2017, 06:47:05 PM
I just decided that, morally speaking, there's no reason for me to continue.

I suppose it's also worth noting that I've already been contacted by people who want to pick up where I left off. Which... I don't really know how to feel about, but okay.

This is unfortunate but inevitable I guess. It's a shame. It's not like before where I've seen translators struggle to keep up with release. You translated consistently and well. Thank you for your service - it was appreciated. I hope your successor is as skilled as you were. I just wish that you didn't leave us on a cliffhanger. I'm thankful that you're still translating WaHH and VFiS though. I wish you the best of luck in the future.
Title: Re: Yen Press licenses Touhou Suzunaan ~ Forbidden Scrollery
Post by: Spotty Len on June 01, 2017, 06:50:04 PM
So I guess Europe will be stuck with importing all the books, neat.
Title: Re: Yen Press licenses Touhou Suzunaan ~ Forbidden Scrollery
Post by: Clarste on June 01, 2017, 06:52:49 PM
They have digital versions too, and while I'm not sure exactly how their region-locking works, it shouldn't be too much trouble to work around it.
Title: Re: Yen Press licenses Touhou Suzunaan ~ Forbidden Scrollery
Post by: The ⑨th Zentillion on June 01, 2017, 07:47:11 PM
Sad. Well, it's your decision, Clarste, and while unfortunate, it's rather noble, too. Sorry you had to get so much self-entitled bullshit thrown your way, though; but in fandom, it's inevitable, inescapable.

If someone decides to pick up where you left off, well,  sometimes the entitled can have their uses...
Title: Re: Yen Press licenses Touhou Suzunaan ~ Forbidden Scrollery
Post by: Drake on June 01, 2017, 08:29:02 PM
This and other similar reactions (http://angelofgensokyo.tumblr.com/post/161321917996/clarste-after-discussing-it-with-people-i-have) are not a great way to encourage translators to continue doing their thing for this fandom.
cyberangel seriously


s e r i o u s l y
Title: Re: Yen Press licenses Touhou Suzunaan ~ Forbidden Scrollery
Post by: CyberAngel on June 01, 2017, 09:03:09 PM
I'm highly amused by the people who failed to see a cheesy, overly dramatic joke as a cheesy, overly dramatic joke. Thanks for reminding me not to take you seriously.

I mean, I do find his reason to stop translating FS incredibly silly, but that's just my opinion. What, I can't freely express it even in my personal corner of the Intrenet now?
Title: Re: Yen Press licenses Touhou Suzunaan ~ Forbidden Scrollery
Post by: Clarste on June 01, 2017, 09:34:19 PM
As far as I could tell from the responses on tumblr, no one realized you were joking. Perhaps you are bad at telling jokes. On the other, if you find amusement from people misunderstanding you, then I suppose you're very successful at being misunderstood?
Title: Re: Yen Press licenses Touhou Suzunaan ~ Forbidden Scrollery
Post by: CyberAngel on June 01, 2017, 09:50:20 PM
Let's not turn this thread into a psychology session that I never asked for. I'm not the only one upset, you know.
Title: Re: Yen Press licenses Touhou Suzunaan ~ Forbidden Scrollery
Post by: Plubio on June 01, 2017, 10:00:08 PM
Let's not turn this thread into a psychology session that I never asked for. I'm not the only one upset, you know.

And why are you people upset, if I can ask?

Honestly the way some people treat fan-translators really grind my gears. And as a translator myself I kinda feel a bit angry about this.
Nobody ask fan-translators to do their stuff. They do it. For free.

I don't really understand why someone would be upset about someone stopping a translation. A translation you've never paid for (and never will). That's stupidly selfish to be quite honest.
Heck, Clarste even said he really didn't want to stop but he wanted to support ZUN and Harukawa. So he has a reason to do so.

I know this stuff is something pretty common when it comes to fan-translated stuff but I still can't find a reason, a solid reason about why someone has the rights to be mad at a translator for stopping their translations.
Title: Re: Yen Press licenses Touhou Suzunaan ~ Forbidden Scrollery
Post by: Flandre5carlet on June 01, 2017, 10:04:54 PM
Personally I'm just disappointed I may have to wait quite a while to find out what happens next if no other fan translation picks up where Clarste left off.
I'm not gonna, like, rant about Clarste's decision or such, and I'm certainly going to support the official release (which I would do whether there was a fan translation or not), but if I have to wait until that time to actually find out the rest of the story, well rip.
Title: Re: Yen Press licenses Touhou Suzunaan ~ Forbidden Scrollery
Post by: mauve on June 01, 2017, 10:15:51 PM
bitter fans make me glad i got out of the fan tl thing tbh

nobody needs to deal with attempts at being guilt tripped out of their own decisions by people who just want stuff for themselves

edit: honestly, one of the things most offputting things to happen w/ western TH fandom was when people started doing things For The Fans(in other words, for the exposure and recognition they would get for it) rather than for the promotion of the creators or their own self-improvement. i get that the people who ask the most or who are the most disappointed are often the ones without the relevant skill sets needed, but it rubs me the wrong way when fan translations are An Expectation To Be Served rather than something people do because they want to.

edit edit: signed, the one who still gets asked to mod netplay into games he doesn't care about years later and can't convince anyone to play the one game he actually liked doing it for
Title: Re: Yen Press licenses Touhou Suzunaan ~ Forbidden Scrollery
Post by: Spotty Len on June 01, 2017, 10:21:54 PM
Actually Clarste, thank you for translating FS up to now. We wouldn't even be talking about it right now if not for your efforts.

I'm sad, but it's not like the manga suddenly stopped either, there will be other stuff to read until then. And I guess that's a good occasion to practice my Japanese.
Title: Re: Yen Press licenses Touhou Suzunaan ~ Forbidden Scrollery
Post by: CyberAngel on June 01, 2017, 10:34:58 PM
And why are you people upset, if I can ask?

Honestly the way some people treat fan-translators really grind my gears. And as a translator myself I kinda feel a bit angry about this.
Nobody ask fan-translators to do their stuff. They do it. For free.

I don't really understand why someone would be upset about someone stopping a translation. A translation you've never paid for (and never will). That's stupidly selfish to be quite honest.
Heck, Clarste even said he really didn't want to stop but he wanted to support ZUN and Harukawa. So he has a reason to do so.

I know this stuff is something pretty common when it comes to fan-translated stuff but I still can't find a reason, a solid reason about why someone has the rights to be mad at a translator for stopping their translations.

"You become responsible, forever, for what you have tamed."

...Okay, personally, I'm not THAT extreme. I don't think worse about Clarste. It was his decision that he can make or reverse anytime for whatever reason he desires. Doesn't mean I can't be bitter for some time about it. Expressing negativity isn't always a bad thing, you know.

So why don't you people stop policing what other fans can or can't say? It's kind of quite hypocritial in this case.
Title: Re: Yen Press licenses Touhou Suzunaan ~ Forbidden Scrollery
Post by: nyttyn on June 01, 2017, 10:39:01 PM
"You become responsible, forever, for what you have tamed."

...Okay, personally, I'm not THAT extreme. I don't think worse about Clarste. It was his decision that he can make or reverse anytime for whatever reason he desires. Doesn't mean I can't be bitter for some time about it. Expressing negativity isn't always a bad thing, you know.

So why don't you people stop policing what other fans can or can't say? It's kind of quite hypocritial in this case.

Nobody's policing you, you're still free to say what you want.

We're also free to think and comment that what you're saying is pretty stupid.
Title: Re: Yen Press licenses Touhou Suzunaan ~ Forbidden Scrollery
Post by: Lebon14 on June 01, 2017, 11:26:05 PM
Personally I'm just disappointed I may have to wait quite a while to find out what happens next if no other fan translation picks up where Clarste left off.
I'm not gonna, like, rant about Clarste's decision or such, and I'm certainly going to support the official release (which I would do whether there was a fan translation or not), but if I have to wait until that time to actually find out the rest of the story, well rip.

Add me to that boat.
Except, I'm just extremely sad. If Clarste would have dropped it 10 chapters ago, I would have shrugged it off. But right now? It's just break my heart that I'll have to wait 2 years to get the follow-up to this important part of the manga. Again, it's not like I don't want to buy the Yen Press books (I just have reservations like everybody here), I just want to know the end of that ark of the story. And, Clarste, please, consider at least finishing this ark. Then, I won't give a flying kite if you leave then.

*goes back to crying a river*
Title: Re: Yen Press licenses Touhou Suzunaan ~ Forbidden Scrollery
Post by: TresserT on June 01, 2017, 11:31:30 PM
I think there's a line between being disappointed and being angry. If ZUN's kid got sick and he had to stop making touhou I'd be disappointed that "no new touhou", but I'd understand why and I wouldn't be angry at him for it. Like, getting upset for something like that would be totally ridiculous. Likewise, I'm disappointed that I won't get to see the ending of this FS arc for a while, especially since we're so close, but I understand why Clarste feels the way they do and it's kind of silly to be angry at them for it.
Title: Re: Yen Press licenses Touhou Suzunaan ~ Forbidden Scrollery
Post by: Lt Colonel Summers on June 02, 2017, 12:42:30 AM
Fair enough, I still can't get over the fact about the lack of exposure of Japanese/Asian culture tho. I will always blame 4kids for pioneering the trend of denying Japan/Asia's existence in localization.

Yeah, I too blame 4Kids and their "Eff yeah! America!" mindset for the US' lack of knowledge on Asian cultures (even though I'm not from the US). Its a good thing those anti-Asia racists went bankrupt.

Quote
On another topic, I'm interested in how they are going to handle stuffs like;

- Marisa's way of talking

Since Marisa looks like a westerner and has a western-sounding name, perhaps they're going to give her an American accent? Though I would be surprised if they gave her a Dutch (or any western) accent instead...

EDIT: Oh, damn. I guess we won't be seeing the resolution to
Demon Kosuzu
and Reimu vs Yukari anytime soon... :(
Title: Re: Yen Press licenses Touhou Suzunaan ~ Forbidden Scrollery
Post by: Nyxnyx on June 02, 2017, 01:02:45 AM
The FS manga has a furigana on every single kanji, even the simplest ones if memory serves. So in the mean time just try to translate it with google trans or something lol. At least you get some extremely rough ideas. With basic hiragana knowledge you can get what that kanji reads and translate them along with some words bar particles to get the roughest ideas. I say roughest since grammar is a pretty big deal and yeah, that's some of the reason why japanese is hard.

And I think self-entitled fans or whoever that demand what they're getting for free at the expense of other's time is pretty stupid. Clarste does it because he wants to and he stops since he does't want to, simple as that. (Well in this case i know he doesn't really "want" to, but i think you get what I mean.) Instead of being thankful of what they get, people tends to take things for granted. Try studying Japanese and know how much work he has to go through before he can start translating for you guys.

Ah well, in my place there're even more whining fans when fan-translation for various types of non-localized work slows down or something, so yeah it feels really annoying whenever I see one and I don't want it to happen here. Why can people never be grateful for what they have even when they did not put in the work to get it.

So yeah, thanks Clarste for all you've done so far. Pretty sure you're not discouraged but you deserve gratitude anyway. Now, I hope Kosuzu turns into demon, ghost or something, since it's more amusing that way. Not everything has to make sense all the time, right? :D

PS. Hope Yen press publish the manga fast since in my country we have FS localization but the publisher just leave it volumn 1 for years and counting for some reason. Whatever the reason is, as a fan, I'm really sad waiting something that'll never come. *rant*


Title: Re: Yen Press licenses Touhou Suzunaan ~ Forbidden Scrollery
Post by: Shadowlupus on June 02, 2017, 01:15:17 AM
Welp, I just woke up this morning and saw this. Yeah, I was shocked to see this news too. It is inevitable that something like this will come but I respect Clarste's decision.

I hope that Yen Press will continue to publish FS until the series' end. Over here, Thai publishers stop doing it for ages and thus SSiB, Three Fairies, WaHH and FS is left half-completed. The translator/admin is left stalemate due to copyrights. He can't post manga translations anymore. I hope the western community doesn't suffer from the same fate.


However, if we can just read the spoilers/observation, then I'll translate and post them for you guys. In Thai Facebook, folks there will post spoilers or their own observation whenever the chapter comes up. I'll be translating those. Just don't expect a professional translation, esp with a terminology/proper noun.
Title: Re: Yen Press licenses Touhou Suzunaan ~ Forbidden Scrollery
Post by: Lebon14 on June 02, 2017, 02:40:18 AM
Has Yen Press a good reputation anyway? Do they release every volume of every manga they license? /random-question
Title: Re: Yen Press licenses Touhou Suzunaan ~ Forbidden Scrollery
Post by: Zelinko on June 02, 2017, 03:16:21 AM
I'm supposed to be the negative one but this thread has really put a lot of worries in me. 

Guess I'll have to manually archive the last chapters  and burn to disc for my archives.

I was actually kinda excited but now I'm spooked especially about translation.
Title: Re: Yen Press licenses Touhou Suzunaan ~ Forbidden Scrollery
Post by: aUsernameIsFineToo on June 02, 2017, 05:27:31 AM
So I guess Europe will be stuck with importing all the books, neat.
You can always buy the Kindle edition! You don't even need a Kindle device, the app works on Android, iPhone, iPad, and even computers! Even though I'm in the US I pre-ordered the Kindle edition because I travel between home and university a lot. In that case I prefer having the manga to read on my phone or computer.

Re: Clarste and fan-translations: I think it's perfectly reasonable, especially since there is now an official channel to very easily get the manga at affordable prices. It's time we show the responsible parties that they have our support by purchasing the content we enjoy.
Title: Re: Yen Press licenses Touhou Suzunaan ~ Forbidden Scrollery
Post by: N-Forza on June 02, 2017, 06:08:21 AM
Yeah, to be honest, as long as they don't have any glaring mistranslations or inconsistencies, I would urge everyone to buy the official release if only to help show there is a demand for Touhou in general. Reactions to the games have been mixed since they are fanmade or untranslated (as in DDC on Playism).
Title: Re: Yen Press licenses Touhou Suzunaan ~ Forbidden Scrollery
Post by: Drake on June 02, 2017, 07:03:43 AM
To note, I'm not sure if anyone complaining about why Clarste had to stop now of all times rather than earlier is really thinking about that line. It isn't like Forbidden Scrollery only exists when it is being translated, obviously, so for people expressing that it's a shame that they won't get to know what happens for the chapters going into the future, they should probably consider that if Clarste had stopped even earlier, these chapters would y'know still exist, and people would be just as upset not knowing what was happening. In the same vein, because we don't know how the book will continue into the future, you can't really say that you would be okay if Clarste just stopped at the end of this arc, people are just picking this point because it's pretty likely there's nothing "important" immediately afterwards. Meanwhile if important stuff did happen people would be mad again.

Personally I'm still a bit struck that the biggest reaction to an official english licensing of a Touhou manga is "shit now I can't read the manga anymore".
Title: Re: Yen Press licenses Touhou Suzunaan ~ Forbidden Scrollery
Post by: CyberAngel on June 02, 2017, 07:12:51 AM
Drake, did you somehow miss that it'll take Yen Press YEARS to catch up to current fan translation point? One might as well just learn the original language in that time.

That said, even I'd suggest to anyone upset to cool their jets. Someone else might pick up the fan translation process, you know.
Title: Re: Yen Press licenses Touhou Suzunaan ~ Forbidden Scrollery
Post by: the old guy on June 02, 2017, 07:38:42 AM
Drake, did you somehow miss that it'll take Yen Press YEARS to catch up to current fan translation point? One might as well just learn the original language in that time.

THIS.

Seriously we wont know the fate of Suzu for YEARS. It'll be just like what happened with Eirin's immortally and her status as an shinto god, something known to the eastern fandom for years, but constantly argued over by the western fandom until it was correctly translated. Same thing here but worse, this time its the fate of an character and ending to a major story arc.
Title: Re: Yen Press licenses Touhou Suzunaan ~ Forbidden Scrollery
Post by: Drake on June 02, 2017, 08:17:22 AM
I was talking about the notion that it would have been better if Clarste had stopped several chapters earlier, or even arguably several chapters later.

I understand why people are upset. Obviously. But most of the clamor hasn't been about the fact that there will be official license, which in literally any other circumstance one would think is the greatest thing ever. The clamor is about people now being unable to consume the serialization, in essence. That bothers me. Clearly I'm somewhat biased because I'm in a position better than most when it comes to being able to read the works, but that isn't coloring what I think about this.

In what context would an official license ever not pose this problem? A) To license it once the book is over and everyone's already read it all, and B) To keep fan translation going alongside it and have everyone read it all?

There is no good solution to this problem. Licensing didn't start early and now we're stuck with the consequences.

- People can likely already obtain the chapters fairly early online if they know how, and even without full translations there will inevitably be spoilers posted. People still can't just read it for themselves so upset people will remain. (Seriously anyone thinking that we actually won't know about what happens in the next chapter for literally two years is up their own ass)

- Could they try to fast-track and license the tankobon out of order so that people already up to speed can read the newest chapters? That would be interesting, but would be extremely confusing to any new reader, plus it means the staff won't get their bearings or have much feedback, and they also would probably do a crap job without existing context of earlier books. People would probably still be upset about serializations.

- The most appropriate theoretical solution most fan-consumers might agree to would be, like, buying the digital version of Comp Ace on Amazon and having that purchase magically unlock some DRM-locked fan translation. Not only would that be incredibly silly to implement and have people get upset just by the nature of it being DRM (along with the likelihood of it getting cracked anyways...), but it ignores why fan translation would be stopped to begin with.

- Yen press serialization???? Would probably also be littered with errors from lack of context?
Title: Re: Yen Press licenses Touhou Suzunaan ~ Forbidden Scrollery
Post by: Critz on June 02, 2017, 08:46:18 AM
Honestly, it's a blessing in disguise that we're only getting an official release now, rather than a month ago, when there was an actual cliffhanger over our heads.
By now it's very clear that
Kosuzu is gonna be saved and spared from any consequences
. so all that we need to know is
Yukari's excuse
and the series will propably end soon anyway.  :V
Title: Re: Yen Press licenses Touhou Suzunaan ~ Forbidden Scrollery
Post by: the old guy on June 02, 2017, 09:37:47 AM
Honestly, it's a blessing in disguise that we're only getting an official release now, rather than a month ago, when there was an actual cliffhanger over our heads.
By now it's very clear that
Kosuzu is gonna be saved and spared from any consequences
. so all that we need to know is
Yukari's excuse
and the series will propably end soon anyway.  :V

That's like saying "Don't watch Return Of The Jedi. You know that the hero's win at the end."
Title: Re: Yen Press licenses Touhou Suzunaan ~ Forbidden Scrollery
Post by: Drake on June 02, 2017, 10:24:14 AM
you say that, but don't realize that so many people are actually in just to react to whatever happens so they can form an opinion on how zun sucks shit or whatever
Title: Re: Yen Press licenses Touhou Suzunaan ~ Forbidden Scrollery
Post by: Kilgamayan on June 02, 2017, 11:00:06 AM
People that are worried that they'll never find out what's going to happen can subscribe to the digital version of the magazine and look at the pretty pictures while reading along with a summary someone will invariably provide. Clarste even provided two possibilities (http://clarste.tumblr.com/post/161325282276/if-it-isnt-too-much-trouble-could-you-tell-us) for y'all to do so.
Title: Re: Yen Press licenses Touhou Suzunaan ~ Forbidden Scrollery
Post by: Flandre5carlet on June 02, 2017, 11:06:20 AM
People that are worried that they'll never find out what's going to happen can subscribe to the digital version of the magazine and look at the pretty pictures while reading along with a summary someone will invariably provide. Clarste even provided two possibilities (http://clarste.tumblr.com/post/161325282276/if-it-isnt-too-much-trouble-could-you-tell-us) for y'all to do so.

That's like telling people to watch a movie without subtitles and read a synopsis if they want to understand what's going on. You won't know what the dialogue says, for example. Just have a rough idea maybe, though I suppose it depends on how thorough the summary would be.
I guess if it's the only option I have to continue reading it until the end of the arc and/or western release, but it's not really a desirable way to experience a story.
Title: Re: Yen Press licenses Touhou Suzunaan ~ Forbidden Scrollery
Post by: Kilgamayan on June 02, 2017, 11:13:24 AM
Consider it karmic retribution for sneaking into the movies for free for years. ?_(ツ)_/?
Title: Re: Yen Press licenses Touhou Suzunaan ~ Forbidden Scrollery
Post by: the old guy on June 02, 2017, 11:22:11 AM
Consider it karmic retribution for sneaking into the movies for free for years. ?_(ツ)_/?
Hard to consider it Karma when that was the only way you could actually see the film.
Title: Re: Yen Press licenses Touhou Suzunaan ~ Forbidden Scrollery
Post by: Flandre5carlet on June 02, 2017, 11:23:51 AM
Consider it karmic retribution for sneaking into the movies for free for years. ?_(ツ)_/?

Yeah I mean it's not like I have the physical releases or anything.
Title: Re: Yen Press licenses Touhou Suzunaan ~ Forbidden Scrollery
Post by: N-Forza on June 02, 2017, 12:52:06 PM
My proxy service has been around for as long as FS has been running, so there's no real excuse other than "I don't understand the language and I didn't want to pay that much."

I agree it's not desirable but even as recent as a few years ago getting simulcast anime subbed legitimately was unheard of, so under the current conditions, it strikes me as entitled to expect this comic series (or any for that matter) to be instantly caught up. There's a number of factors limiting that sort of thing (demand, for one) or I'm sure they'd love to have it released all at once too.
Title: Re: Yen Press licenses Touhou Suzunaan ~ Forbidden Scrollery
Post by: Clarste on June 02, 2017, 01:03:49 PM
There are only 6 volumes of FS out right now, and they seem to be planning to release one every 3 months (starting in November). They'd catch up pretty fast, imo.
Title: Re: Yen Press licenses Touhou Suzunaan ~ Forbidden Scrollery
Post by: Flandre5carlet on June 02, 2017, 01:09:20 PM
Well, that'd still end up in a 2019 release of the 6th volume - if they stick to that rhythm, of course - while the series continues to advance Japan-side, unless it'd have ended by then.
I don't really follow localizations very often though, so I can't say whether that's a fast or slow overseas release pace, but it does feel like a fairly long time to catch up to current story point.
Title: Re: Yen Press licenses Touhou Suzunaan ~ Forbidden Scrollery
Post by: Jeremie on June 02, 2017, 02:04:46 PM
I think the circumstances are really what's causing so many much frustration and I'd say it's more a matter of it being inevitable than just pure self-entitlement although it goes without saying that there's some folks who are that way, people who suddenly explodes in anger, sending hate-filled or lulzy comments to people who does fan work, projects and all that or who feels people owes them.

Forbidden Scrollery is currently at what is a cliffhanger that interests a lot of fans and suddenly, news of an English localization suddenly pops up. As far as I can tell, this is one, if not the first time we get official Touhou material that way so all these little things added together means that the impact that suddenly just happened from the current fan translation being stopped from that just can't be helped. Do that with any media that has a fanbase and that'll happen and Touhou is by no means an exception.

Personally, I think it's important to remember and be grateful of all the awesome amount of translated stuff both fan and official we already have. When you think about it, it's pretty crazy how many folks have worked on all of this and it shows how amazing the fanbase is. IMO I strongly agree that those worried about the current translation being stopped shouldn't be too concerned since someone will most likely keep on going but I also think it's important to respect Clarste's choice and reasons even though his opinion about Eirin Yagokoro is and always been wrong and horrible.*

*: Just kidding of course  :3. ~
Title: Re: Yen Press licenses Touhou Suzunaan ~ Forbidden Scrollery
Post by: nyttyn on June 02, 2017, 03:39:43 PM
On the plus side this means zun is still interested in getting stuff to the western Fandom, because as I understand it publishers take their writers/artists super seriously and I don't think a English localization would have been in the cards if zun hadnt signed off in it. A good sign after how much of a failure the playism stuff wound up being.
Title: Re: Yen Press licenses Touhou Suzunaan ~ Forbidden Scrollery
Post by: Lebon14 on June 02, 2017, 04:38:27 PM
To note, I'm not sure if anyone complaining about why Clarste had to stop now of all times rather than earlier is really thinking about that line. It isn't like Forbidden Scrollery only exists when it is being translated, obviously, so for people expressing that it's a shame that they won't get to know what happens for the chapters going into the future, they should probably consider that if Clarste had stopped even earlier, these chapters would y'know still exist, and people would be just as upset not knowing what was happening. In the same vein, because we don't know how the book will continue into the future, you can't really say that you would be okay if Clarste just stopped at the end of this arc, people are just picking this point because it's pretty likely there's nothing "important" immediately afterwards. Meanwhile if important stuff did happen people would be mad again.

Personally I'm still a bit struck that the biggest reaction to an official english licensing of a Touhou manga is "shit now I can't read the manga anymore".

I know that it's indirectly aimed at me since I brought that up. And you ended up with the wrong conclusion as to why I have loved Clarste to stop translating sooner. Sure, the chapters would still exist. However, I wouldn't know of their existance and the increasing tension in them. In other words, ignorance is bliss. And it's the same as for the future arcs.

I think the circumstances are really what's causing so many much frustration and I'd say it's more a matter of it being inevitable than just pure self-entitlement although it goes without saying that there's some folks who are that way, people who suddenly explodes in anger, sending hate-filled or lulzy comments to people who does fan work, projects and all that or who feels people owes them.

Forbidden Scrollery is currently at what is a cliffhanger that interests a lot of fans and suddenly, news of an English localization suddenly pops up. As far as I can tell, this is one, if not the first time we get official Touhou material that way so all these little things added together means that the impact that suddenly just happened from the current fan translation being stopped from that just can't be helped. Do that with any media that has a fanbase and that'll happen and Touhou is by no means an exception.

Pretty much this. You said it way better than I could have said it.
Title: Re: Yen Press licenses Touhou Suzunaan ~ Forbidden Scrollery
Post by: Quanta on June 02, 2017, 08:57:51 PM
While i don't understand Yenpress decision to serialize a manga that's almost near its end (I still totally support it,BTW) .Why can't they release all six volumes to catch up with the Japanese version, using fan-translation (AKA clarste) version to speed up the translating speed while letting professionals double-check them to preserve the quality ??? And if they're worried about the sales, print them a small number at a time to receive feedback while push up the releasing speed, like, a volume/month or smt. IMHO, that seems pretty intuitive
This was posted under the assumption that clarste would collaborate with Yenpress some way or another so if that's impossible then guess we'll have to wait a few years to "officially"  get our hands on FS ending anyway.
Title: Re: Yen Press licenses Touhou Suzunaan ~ Forbidden Scrollery
Post by: Prime32 on June 03, 2017, 01:36:48 AM
Why can't they release all six volumes to catch up with the Japanese version, using fan-translation (AKA clarste) version to speed up the translating speed while letting professionals double-check them to preserve the quality ???
While that kind of thing does happen sometimes (http://legendsoflocalization.com/these-fan-translations-became-official-translations/), I've never heard of it happening with a manga.

Translating a game involves way more text, with the translator not always having context for where it appears. Unlike a series you have to translate the whole thing before you can start selling it (and can't use early chapters to test the waters), making it a riskier investment. It can also require you to make heavy changes to the game engine, and it's a lot easier to pay for a pre-made solution to that than to risk running into technical issues like "KeineH" that can stall development.

Compared to that... some manga might be trickier to work with than others, but the process is always straightforward and predictable, and they've got a ton of experience at it.
Title: Re: Yen Press licenses Touhou Suzunaan ~ Forbidden Scrollery
Post by: Lebon14 on June 03, 2017, 03:06:07 AM
We have an happy ending guys! (http://clarste.tumblr.com/post/161363326871/okay-so-theres-been-some-controversy-about-this)
Title: Re: Yen Press licenses Touhou Suzunaan ~ Forbidden Scrollery
Post by: nyttyn on June 03, 2017, 03:17:38 AM
Well, the reason why they can't just pay for Clarste's work is kind of three fold? Putting aside the issue of 'why don't they just release it at a super-speed cycle," which is its own can of worms (that boils down to 'wow they would burn SO MUCH money never in a thousand years')

First off all, there's the issue that they'd have to spend time and effort on trying to contact Clarste and sort out a deal when...they already have a translation team that they pay to handle this stuff. Second issue is, well. Said team probably isn't keen on yen press turning to fan translators, it might start digging into their own work safety. And thirdly, and this is probably both the most important thing...

With all due respect to clarste, and I'm eternally grateful he's translated the work so far - his translation job has issues. Things like Mamizou...not really having any sort of accent for awhile when, in the original text, she's almost like a grandma. To what extent the translation's flawed, I'm not really qualified to say, and again I have to clarify this statement by saying I love the fact he translated this stuff for us and I'm not trying to bash the man's work here, but for something as short as a print work I don't think there's a snowball's chance in hell of a company that already has a paid TL team on staff trying to go through the trouble of getting a fan translation even if it was utterly perfect, so a fan translation (which understandably so) that has flaws has...well, a negative chance.
Title: Re: Yen Press licenses Touhou Suzunaan ~ Forbidden Scrollery
Post by: Quanta on June 03, 2017, 03:40:45 AM

First off all, there's the issue that they'd have to spend time and effort on trying to contact Clarste and sort out a deal when...they already have a translation team that they pay to handle this stuff. Second issue is, well. Said team probably isn't keen on yen press turning to fan translators, it might start digging into their own work safety.

While I admit that doing this is unnecessary for most manga out there, certainly it would be easier (compared to tediously digging through the wiki) to rely on pre-existing fan translation for a franchise with such a long continuity like Touhou, right?

Quote
With all due respect to clarste, and I'm eternally grateful he's translated the work so far - his translation job has issues. Things like Mamizou...not really having any sort of accent for awhile when, in the original text, she's almost like a grandma. To what extent the translation's flawed, I'm not really qualified to say, and again I have to clarify this statement by saying I love the fact he translated this stuff for us and I'm not trying to bash the man's work here, but for something as short as a print work I don't think there's a snowball's chance in hell of a company that already has a paid TL team on staff trying to go through the trouble of getting a fan translation even if it was utterly perfect, so a fan translation (which understandably so) that has flaws has...well, a negative chance.
I understand that the translation has issues but that's why i said it still needs to be double-checked by professionals, just putting it out as an idea as to how long-time fans can catch up to the latest chapter of FS right away.And why would using clarste's tranlation be difficult ??? He would most likely greenlight it and it's not like he would ask to be paid for it (I still love your TL btw, clarste).
On another note,is there any confirmation that FS is ending (other than fan speculation) or is this just the end of the first major arc in FS ?

Title: Re: Yen Press licenses Touhou Suzunaan ~ Forbidden Scrollery
Post by: Drake on June 03, 2017, 03:49:47 AM
I know that it's indirectly aimed at me since I brought that up. And you ended up with the wrong conclusion as to why I have loved Clarste to stop translating sooner. Sure, the chapters would still exist. However, I wouldn't know of their existance and the increasing tension in them. In other words, ignorance is bliss. And it's the same as for the future arcs.
I wasn't talking about you specifically, but that perplexes me. Do parts of the series just not exist to you if you can't access them in a consumable format? Do you not pay attention to new releases and stuff if you can't see it? I can't understand that line of thought at all, especially in a fandom such as Touhou. Even if nobody ever ended up translating FS at all the english fandom in general isn't going to be oblivious to the work (they're just going to complain nobody's translating it for them), so if you're saying you would be oblivious to it, my comments don't apply to you I guess?

While i don't understand Yenpress decision to serialize a manga that's almost near its end (I still totally support it,BTW) .Why can't they release all six volumes to catch up with the Japanese version, using fan-translation (AKA clarste) version to speed up the translating speed while letting professionals double-check them to preserve the quality ???
cause that's plagiarism lol

Yeah I mean it's not like I have the physical releases or anything.
I totally get your point here but even if you buy the tankobon you wouldn't be entitled to reading the serialization, so it's more like you're sneaking into the movies for free but still buying the DVDs later.
Title: Re: Yen Press licenses Touhou Suzunaan ~ Forbidden Scrollery
Post by: TrueShadow on June 03, 2017, 04:08:18 AM
I wasn't talking about you specifically, but that perplexes me. Do parts of the series just not exist to you if you can't access them in a consumable format? Do you not pay attention to new releases and stuff if you can't see it? I can't understand that line of thought at all, especially in a fandom such as Touhou. Even if nobody ever ended up translating FS at all the english fandom in general isn't going to be oblivious to the work (they're just going to complain nobody's translating it for them), so if you're saying you would be oblivious to it, my comments don't apply to you I guess?
Not sure if the word is appropriate here, but it's basically "color of the sky" + "a round object".
Or another analogy, the difference being given a free meal than having it be taken away while you're eating, and not given a meal in the first place.
Title: Re: Yen Press licenses Touhou Suzunaan ~ Forbidden Scrollery
Post by: D-T on June 03, 2017, 04:25:30 AM
Y'all you're not gonna have to wait like 3 years to finish FS because there is literally zero chance someone else won't pick it up
Title: Re: Yen Press licenses Touhou Suzunaan ~ Forbidden Scrollery
Post by: Drake on June 03, 2017, 05:12:31 AM
Not sure if the word is appropriate here, but it's basically "color of the sky" + "a round object".
Or another analogy, the difference being given a free meal than having it be taken away while you're eating, and not given a meal in the first place.
Being upset at getting blocked at the climax is understandable, but ultimately I don't think it's all that worse than not being able to read any of the stuff up to this point either. Supposing it was stopped earlier and nobody translated it at all, english fans would just be clawing onto random pictures from the chapters and making speculations about what they were seeing anyways, then it'd be like "nooo this volume is where stuff actually happens why did we stop at vol6" or whatever. There was a pretty steady buildup in this volume so stopping at any point at least during vol7 probably would have had a similar outcome.
Title: Re: Yen Press licenses Touhou Suzunaan ~ Forbidden Scrollery
Post by: Clarste on June 03, 2017, 06:22:14 AM
With all due respect to clarste, and I'm eternally grateful he's translated the work so far - his translation job has issues. Things like Mamizou...not really having any sort of accent for awhile when, in the original text, she's almost like a grandma. To what extent the translation's flawed, I'm not really qualified to say, and again I have to clarify this statement by saying I love the fact he translated this stuff for us and I'm not trying to bash the man's work here, but for something as short as a print work I don't think there's a snowball's chance in hell of a company that already has a paid TL team on staff trying to go through the trouble of getting a fan translation even if it was utterly perfect, so a fan translation (which understandably so) that has flaws has...well, a negative chance.

Yes, my work is far from perfect, and honestly I don't think it would even save them that much time or effort compared to starting from scratch.
Title: Re: Yen Press licenses Touhou Suzunaan ~ Forbidden Scrollery
Post by: Lt Colonel Summers on June 03, 2017, 06:28:07 AM
We have an happy ending guys! (http://clarste.tumblr.com/post/161363326871/okay-so-theres-been-some-controversy-about-this)

Good to hear that! Now we can see the conclusion to
Demon Kosuzu
and Reimu vs Yukari in one month's time!
Title: Re: Yen Press licenses Touhou Suzunaan ~ Forbidden Scrollery
Post by: Flandre5carlet on June 03, 2017, 11:42:10 AM
I totally get your point here but even if you buy the tankobon you wouldn't be entitled to reading the serialization, so it's more like you're sneaking into the movies for free but still buying the DVDs later.

Fair. I didn't know I had any access to the serialization at all up until this thread actually, while access to the physical releases was fairly easy (for once) thanks to channels like amiami.
Title: Re: Yen Press licenses Touhou Suzunaan ~ Forbidden Scrollery
Post by: Zelinko on June 03, 2017, 12:50:34 PM
So who are these 'other guys'
Title: Re: Yen Press licenses Touhou Suzunaan ~ Forbidden Scrollery
Post by: Splashman on June 06, 2017, 04:50:00 PM
So who are these 'other guys'

Etarnity Lurvers
Title: Re: Yen Press licenses Touhou Suzunaan ~ Forbidden Scrollery
Post by: the old guy on July 10, 2017, 03:19:02 AM
We're back. (http://www.google.com) This time the translation's from some buggers named "Etarnity Lurvers".

Content Warning: Complete anti-climatic filler that goes no where and completely fails on a fundamental storytelling level. Seriously ZUN? You can do better at this. You know somethings wrong when fucking fan fic writers are better at writing fight scenes than the creator of the series they're writing for. Weak.

[moriya]Please don't link to official material, particularly official material that has been licensed in the west.[/moriya]
Title: Re: Yen Press licenses Touhou Suzunaan ~ Forbidden Scrollery
Post by: mauve on July 19, 2017, 06:26:17 PM
that's called "the game got delayed and oh crap this screws up our manga scheduling"
Title: Re: Yen Press licenses Touhou Suzunaan ~ Forbidden Scrollery
Post by: Plubio on July 21, 2017, 01:19:17 AM
that's called "the game got delayed and oh crap this screws up our manga scheduling"

Right? I've been thinking this for a while.
Like, there's literally no mention about AoCF "perfect possesion" incident anymore. I wonder if ZUN had to think about something in the meantime.
Title: Re: Yen Press licenses Touhou Suzunaan ~ Forbidden Scrollery
Post by: Drake on July 21, 2017, 01:57:08 AM
I don't really think so. This entire volume of FS has been part of the same arc and focused on the same things. We have connections to HSiFS from both Fairies and FS so it's been kept busy -- WaHH has typically been the one to tie into the fighting game stories and I think that would be the case for AoCF as well. That being said, it definitely sucks that we have dates on when the incident started and around when the game events should be taking place, since that does screw up manga tie-ins. It's hard to say how ZUN is going to handle it, maybe he'll just keep it in the past.
Title: Re: Yen Press licenses Touhou Suzunaan ~ Forbidden Scrollery
Post by: Kafuu on July 25, 2017, 03:44:52 PM
Forbidden Scrollery is going to conclude

http://blog.livedoor.jp/coleblog/archives/52089578.html
Title: Re: Yen Press licenses Touhou Suzunaan ~ Forbidden Scrollery
Post by: Flandre5carlet on July 25, 2017, 03:58:58 PM
Forbidden Scrollery is going to conclude

http://blog.livedoor.jp/coleblog/archives/52089578.html

What is this about? I don't speak Japanese.
Title: Re: Yen Press licenses Touhou Suzunaan ~ Forbidden Scrollery
Post by: PK on July 25, 2017, 04:49:46 PM
I passed the page through translator and apparently it says FS is completed.
I'm a bit sad since FS is my fav Touhou manga. I hope something else comes next, or at least that VFiS will come out more often :<
Title: Re: Yen Press licenses Touhou Suzunaan ~ Forbidden Scrollery
Post by: Suwako Moriya on July 25, 2017, 05:08:02 PM
I suppose this offers up another possible explanation as to why they put out yet another cliffhanger in the most recent chapter.
Title: Re: Yen Press licenses Touhou Suzunaan ~ Forbidden Scrollery
Post by: VividMemory2000 on August 07, 2017, 01:24:31 PM
Inb4 Yen Press gives it an official logo and reuse that same logo

seriously i hate when companies do that
Title: Re: Yen Press licenses Touhou Suzunaan ~ Forbidden Scrollery
Post by: Valar on August 11, 2017, 08:51:56 AM
So, the last chapter is safely translated. I liked the series a lot, and the conclusion is quite satisfying. What do you think?
Title: Re: Yen Press licenses Touhou Suzunaan ~ Forbidden Scrollery
Post by: Lebon14 on October 15, 2017, 04:31:39 PM
So Yen Press finally acknowledged that it's going to be released next month on tumblr:
http://yenpress.tumblr.com/post/166332193270/forbidden-scrollery-vol-1-by-zun-where-else

(If all the text is white, you'll have to select the text)
Title: Re: Yen Press licenses Touhou Suzunaan ~ Forbidden Scrollery
Post by: Lebon14 on October 18, 2017, 02:14:20 AM
2 days later. Nobody commented.
Also, nobody seems to have noticed (except Clarste) that the manga will not carry "Touhou Suzunaan" prefix. Just "Forbidden Scrollery".
So, unless it's on the spine, it's an issue for any newcomers; they'll be lost unless they search about that original manga or Zun. And apparently, it's hard to follow if you haven't have a basic understanding of Touhou...

Yen Press, don't screw it up!
(see cover in above link)
Title: Re: Yen Press licenses Touhou Suzunaan ~ Forbidden Scrollery
Post by: Drake on October 18, 2017, 04:03:59 AM
I'm seeing the opposite. They've been using "Forbidden Scrollery" as the title since the beginning; cuc mentioned it on the first page. Yen Press titles are generally either entirely translated titles when they can or use some of the original title if that's how the work is generally referred to already. FS doesn't have this problem since basically nobody in the english fandom calls it Suzunaan, and there's no way "Touhou Suzunaan" would be translated, so I can easily see the logic here. I don't think missing "Touhou" from the title will mess up searching at all because of how unique the title is, even though personally I prefer the full title.

I think it's basically guaranteed at this point that the book being part of the Touhou series will be made obvious. The Amazon listing for vol.1 didn't give much info, but if you haven't noticed, volume 2 is now up for preorder (https://www.amazon.com/Forbidden-Scrollery-Vol-Moe-Harukawa/dp/0316511900) as well, with the description "In the mystic realm of Gensokyo, library worker Kosuzuna awakens to her ability to read demon books. This volume crosses over with the games Double Dealing Character and Hopeless Masquerade of the Japanese hit franchise, Touhou!"
Additionally the book series is now listed in Amazon, where it is called "Touhou Suzunaan - Forbidden Scrollery. Book Series", even including the fancy period which basically nobody pays attention to.

"Kosuzuna" aside, they explicitly say it's part of the Touhou franchise. They use "Gensokyo", and most importantly it mentions it overlaps with events of DDC and HM; this shows they're aware there is extra context required to understand the book, which bodes well for priming readers to acknowledge that the book is part of a larger body of works. Manga in general are not averse to having forewords and afterwords by the editors, and if they follow this (admittedly small) trend I figure the back cover and some sort of word from the editor would establish important things about the overall series. Some more rudimentary details about the setting and characters are also given by the margin notes in the original manga (filling in basic details about the setting is their whole purpose), which I assume will be included.

You could say I'm reading too much into this from little information, but I think there's more evidence for being hopeful they'll handle it fine than evidence for being wary.

EDIT: Actually looking at my tankobon there are no margin notes so they probably won't be included here either. Oh well.
Title: Re: Yen Press licenses Touhou Suzunaan ~ Forbidden Scrollery
Post by: Lt Colonel Summers on October 18, 2017, 07:11:55 AM
"Kosuzuna" might be a typo, seeing that her name is correctly spelt as "Kosuzu" in the description of Volume 1.
That being said, I hope that the typo doesn't stick around, and that it is the only mistake...
Title: Re: Yen Press licenses Touhou Suzunaan ~ Forbidden Scrollery
Post by: Spotty Len on November 08, 2017, 10:59:25 PM
So there was another blog entry (http://yenpress.tumblr.com/post/167242410340/forbidden-scrollery-debuts-november-21st-2017#post-notes).

I couldn't help but notice this :

(https://i.imgur.com/d8M8Ufd.png)

Say hello to Mokou Fujiwarano, Tojiko Sogano and Miko Toyosatomimino.
Title: Re: Yen Press licenses Touhou Suzunaan ~ Forbidden Scrollery
Post by: Suwako Moriya on November 08, 2017, 11:25:06 PM
Futo Mononobeno
Title: Re: Yen Press licenses Touhou Suzunaan ~ Forbidden Scrollery
Post by: Drake on November 09, 2017, 12:08:28 AM
"Hiedano" here happened as a silly consequence of furigana. If you weren't aware, basically all kanji in FS is written with furigana over it.
In the book, Akyu's name is indeed written 「稗田 阿求(ひえだの あきゅう)」, or quite literally "hiedano akyuu". Japanese readers with context will probably know what this means, and be able to read 稗田 simply as "hieda"; what either happened here is that the translators figured (without knowing why) that the hiragana reading superseded the literal reading of the kanji, which is something that does happen, or they just got a bit lazy and transliterated the name directly from the furigana (which in most cases would be correct!). However, this is also consistently how her name is written throughout the book, so it is entirely possible it'll stay that way lol, but if that is the case they're going to get messed up when the Hieda family itself is referenced and it's read as "Hieda" lol.

That being said even if it stays this way it's pretty unimportant all things considered and I hope people don't explode into a fit over this.
Title: Re: Yen Press licenses Touhou Suzunaan ~ Forbidden Scrollery
Post by: the old guy on November 09, 2017, 12:46:17 AM
Say "Hiedano" out loud. Tell me that doesn't sound kind of stupid.

And that's why i am not looking forward to this translation, sorry Drake. Mark me up as a whiner i guess.
Title: Re: Yen Press licenses Touhou Suzunaan ~ Forbidden Scrollery
Post by: Lebon14 on November 09, 2017, 01:44:12 AM
"Hiedano" here happened as a silly consequence of furigana. If you weren't aware, basically all kanji in FS is written with furigana over it.
In the book, Akyu's name is indeed written 「稗田 阿求(ひえだの あきゅう)」, or quite literally "hiedano akyuu". Japanese readers with context will probably know what this means, and be able to read 稗田 simply as "hieda"; what either happened here is that the translators figured (without knowing why) that the hiragana reading superseded the literal reading of the kanji, which is something that does happen, or they just got a bit lazy and transliterated the name directly from the furigana (which in most cases would be correct!). However, this is also consistently how her name is written throughout the book, so it is entirely possible it'll stay that way lol, but if that is the case they're going to get messed up when the Hieda family itself is referenced and it's read as "Hieda" lol.

That being said even if it stays this way it's pretty unimportant all things considered and I hope people don't explode into a fit over this.

When profesionnal translators can't even get the context correct when they should is totally why I don't buy these. Translators should not only know a language from A-to-Z, but also know historical context to the language. And know that in Japan, in the old times, people were called "X of Y" and not "X Y" like today. Eastern culture was probably the only one like that, maybe, but that's just unexecusable. Hell, a translator could've just seen what the fanbase were calling her.

Good thing, I saved 25$ not because I don't like ZUN but because I don't want to encourage """small mistakes""" like that from a company that's supposed to be hiring profesionnal translators. And, you know, removing these two letters fixes everything and I'd buy it.
Title: Re: Yen Press licenses Touhou Suzunaan ~ Forbidden Scrollery
Post by: Drake on November 09, 2017, 01:50:35 AM
It's fair to whine about, especially since it isn't something a casual reader would be aware of. "Hiedano Akyu" as last-first name order wouldn't even be really wrong, just badly communicated, while "Akyu Hiedano" is actually wrong.

I just don't think it's productive to doomsay and get up into a fit when that reaction, if given momentum, can have real and significant impacts on sales. I don't think this error itself would actually push people away from buying the book, but collective fandom moaning about what are really quite trivial errors can be that influence to convince people not to buy it. Criticism is important but not to the level of sabotaging your own chance at successful releases going into the future.

EDIT: And above we see a prime example.
Title: Re: Yen Press licenses Touhou Suzunaan ~ Forbidden Scrollery
Post by: Lebon14 on November 09, 2017, 01:54:22 AM
EDIT: And above we see the prime example.

I edited the post with more thoughts.
Title: Re: Yen Press licenses Touhou Suzunaan ~ Forbidden Scrollery
Post by: Drake on November 09, 2017, 02:05:19 AM
Alright. As a counterargument, if you would buy the book if it didn't have these small errors, consider the possibility of second editions, which publishers can do, as well as the fact that more books are planned to be released. What is there to be gained by not buying the first volume if these errors can be corrected going forward? All you do by not buying the book is tell the publishers to drop the series. Refusing to buy the book because of errors doesn't say "there are errors and so I am not buying it until you fix them", it's saying "I don't want this". Like I said just above, criticism is important but not to the level of sabotaging the thing that you actually do want. It makes no sense to ask for published translations and then not buy them because they aren't up to your standards for entirely fixable errors. Meanwhile, you can give criticism to the publishers while also still supporting the books. They will not have the chance to change things if you don't, and everybody loses.

If the whole thing is irredeemably crap, then sure maybe it isn't worth supporting? But that remains to be seen, and should be given the benefit of the doubt at least for the first volume. It is also somewhat likely that if Yen Press fails, other publishers aren't going to just decide to pick it up. You should treat this as a valuable opportunity.
Title: Re: Yen Press licenses Touhou Suzunaan ~ Forbidden Scrollery
Post by: N-Forza on November 09, 2017, 02:08:55 AM
I don't want to be one of those doom-and-gloom naysayers but I just remembered Yen Press was the company that picked up Yotsuba& after ADV went kaput. They made lots of weird translation choices (keeping honorifics, changing Boxerman to Pantsman, changing Cardbo to Danbo though that might have been at the request of the JP side) so that combined with this new info has tempered my expectations somewhat. I'll still buy the book out of support but I'm probably going to mail them my full thoughts afterwards if I find it sub-par.
Title: Re: Yen Press licenses Touhou Suzunaan ~ Forbidden Scrollery
Post by: Hello Purvis on November 09, 2017, 02:17:15 AM
Miko Toyosatomimino
Title: Re: Yen Press licenses Touhou Suzunaan ~ Forbidden Scrollery
Post by: Drake on November 09, 2017, 02:25:47 AM
I'll still buy the book out of support but I'm probably going to mail them my full thoughts afterwards if I find it sub-par.
Same. At no point am I saying "don't criticize them and support them no matter what lol!!", but not buying the book at all because you feel like it's boycotting bad translations, or encouraging an atmosphere for others to not buy it, is not at all a productive method to solving these problems. If it sucks (and maybe even if it doesn't) I'll be sending them feedback.
Title: Re: Yen Press licenses Touhou Suzunaan ~ Forbidden Scrollery
Post by: Lebon14 on November 09, 2017, 02:25:54 AM
Alright. As a counterargument, if you would buy the book if it didn't have these small errors, consider the possibility of second editions, which publishers can do, as well as the fact that more books are planned to be released. What is there to be gained by not buying the first volume if these errors can be corrected going forward? All you do by not buying the book is tell the publishers to drop the series. Refusing to buy the book because of errors doesn't say "there are errors and so I am not buying it until you fix them", it's saying "I don't want this". Like I said just above, criticism is important but not to the level of sabotaging the thing that you actually do want. It makes no sense to ask for published translations and then not buy them because they aren't up to your standards for entirely fixable errors. Meanwhile, you can give criticism to the publishers while also still supporting the books. They will not have the chance to change things if you don't, and everybody loses.

If the whole thing is irredeemably crap, then sure maybe it isn't worth supporting? But that remains to be seen, and should be given the benefit of the doubt at least for the first volume. It is also somewhat likely that if Yen Press fails, other publishers aren't going to just decide to pick it up. You should treat this as a valuable opportunity.

This first look doesn't give good vibes and what Forza added doesn't give me confidence either (despite not being his intention).

If they correct themselves with a 2nd edition, I'll buy it. I know I can't distinguish much between a good TL and a bad one, but character names is one of my pet peeves; especially if an editor decides to just ignore what fans have been calling a characters for so long and that they've (the fans) done a better job by looking into the name of character, what each kanji means and the historical context behind them as well (if they are based on something). If they are hiring profesionnals, it gives their work a very bad vibe just by saying that.

To potential newcomers, it'll confuse them and that's not good.

EDIT: I can't spell tonight.
Title: Re: Yen Press licenses Touhou Suzunaan ~ Forbidden Scrollery
Post by: Drake on November 09, 2017, 02:38:00 AM
You didn't respond to what I said though. I know you think this is bad and needs correcting; I obviously agree, but it isn't the point. You say you'd buy a second edition, or further volumes if they fix the errors, but if they don't get the support to even make those volumes then you won't be getting it regardless. I also imagine that the more successful a series is, the more work they put into it; and conversely the less popular, the fewer people working on it and the more room for error. If you don't want to buy it twice or whatever, that's one thing, but that isn't the same as trying to boycott it because of errors.

(Personally I think it would be neat to own a first edition copy with errors that they fix in later runs, but that's just me.)
Title: Re: Yen Press licenses Touhou Suzunaan ~ Forbidden Scrollery
Post by: Lebon14 on November 09, 2017, 03:04:47 AM
Maybe. I'm also the VERY picky kind. You can just ask Forza of how picky I am. If it does not meet my criterias, I'm not buying and it goes for everything. It's not a matter of "They need your support to continue!"; it's because I'm just way too picky. There's also the fact that I never bought books beside school related stuff. Like... never. I rented Dragonball mangas when I was very young and then... Touhou mangas were the only mangas I've followed since. It's maybe not a good reason for you, but for me, it is. So, in order for me to buy a good that I'm not usually into, it needs to be good; very good even.
Title: Re: Yen Press licenses Touhou Suzunaan ~ Forbidden Scrollery
Post by: Drake on November 09, 2017, 03:16:47 AM
It being a personal decision is perfectly fine, I'm not going to try to guilt-trip you or anything. I'm more concerned with one's personal commentary having an unintended effect on other people with negative consequences.
Title: Re: Yen Press licenses Touhou Suzunaan ~ Forbidden Scrollery
Post by: Clarste on November 09, 2017, 04:33:06 AM
I have no strong feelings on Hiedano. It's not what I'd have done (did), but I don't think it's a totally unreasonable interpretation of that style of name. Really, the bigger problem comes from flipping the name to Western order with the given name first, but that's sort of inevitable.
Title: Re: Yen Press licenses Touhou Suzunaan ~ Forbidden Scrollery
Post by: Drake on November 09, 2017, 04:40:18 AM
They're going to stumble when the name Hieda is used outside of her name, at the very least.
Title: Re: Yen Press licenses Touhou Suzunaan ~ Forbidden Scrollery
Post by: TresserT on November 09, 2017, 04:42:48 AM
So what I'm getting here is, ZUN wrote Akyuu's name oddly by not having "Hieda" and "no" as separate words. It's not just a typo, because it's consistently written that way, and it's unique to Akyu, as people like Miko and Futo's names aren't written that way. Most Japanese would be able to figure it out, though. Rather than translate it as two separate words, the translator kept it as one word. Then they flipped the name order to fit Western conventions. Of course, a Westerner seeing her name for the first time would just think it's "Hiedano".

So tl;dr it's a lost in translation thing. Is that correct? It'd be weird if it were Toyosatomimino, but in this case it seems pretty understandable if I got all that right...? Even if it causes problems when referring to her family.
Title: Re: Yen Press licenses Touhou Suzunaan ~ Forbidden Scrollery
Post by: Clarste on November 09, 2017, 04:44:13 AM
Hata no Kokoro is also written that way, iirc.

She also shows up in FS.
Title: Re: Yen Press licenses Touhou Suzunaan ~ Forbidden Scrollery
Post by: Drake on November 09, 2017, 04:54:19 AM
It isn't unique to Akyu. It's like this for every relevant character.

(https://i.imgur.com/xXCv31l.jpg)

It isn't that odd; while many times there will be spacing between the family name and の (if there's spacing at all), there are writings that connect it that way. In any case, I don't think Japanese readers would be unaware and instead think it's an unorthodox reading, as long as they've taken a history class in school.
Title: Re: Yen Press licenses Touhou Suzunaan ~ Forbidden Scrollery
Post by: Clarste on November 09, 2017, 04:57:59 AM
Yeah, that's how I remember it being. Honestly I thought that was normal since I basically learned about these names through Touhou.

Edit The correct solution is Akyu von Hieda.
Title: Re: Yen Press licenses Touhou Suzunaan ~ Forbidden Scrollery
Post by: Hello Purvis on November 09, 2017, 08:00:10 AM
Edit The correct solution is Akyu von Hieda.

Akyu is a filthy Junker, shoe fits.
Title: Re: Yen Press licenses Touhou Suzunaan ~ Forbidden Scrollery
Post by: Lt Colonel Summers on November 09, 2017, 08:03:24 AM
And know that in Japan, in the old times, people were called "X of Y" and not "X Y" like today. Eastern culture was probably the only one like that, maybe, but that's just unexecusable.

Germany in the old times also has a similar naming, with "von" serving the same purpose as Japan's "no"

EDIT:

Edit The correct solution is Akyu von Hieda.

Clarste beat me to it. And talk about Brick Joke too, since someone has joked about "Akyuu Von Hieda" in the first page of this topic.
Title: Re: Yen Press licenses Touhou Suzunaan ~ Forbidden Scrollery
Post by: brliron on November 09, 2017, 09:24:42 AM
Germany in the old times also has a similar naming, with "von" serving the same purpose as Japan's "no"
France too, with "de". And the French Wikipedia talks about Netherlands ("van"), Scotland ("Mac"), Ireland ("O") and Italy ("da").
Seems rather common.
Title: Re: Yen Press licenses Touhou Suzunaan ~ Forbidden Scrollery
Post by: Shadowlupus on November 09, 2017, 10:37:51 AM
https://facebook.com/Touhou763/albums/1976025672685134/

"The Beautiful Shaman of Paradise"
"Utterly Normal Magician"

Well, it now becomes crystal clear that the translator is doing it blind, i.e. w/o references.
Title: Re: Yen Press licenses Touhou Suzunaan ~ Forbidden Scrollery
Post by: Suwako Moriya on November 09, 2017, 01:49:46 PM
Kokoro Hatano
Akyu Hiedano

THIS IS YOUR FAULT
Title: Re: Yen Press licenses Touhou Suzunaan ~ Forbidden Scrollery
Post by: aListers on November 09, 2017, 06:07:50 PM
France too, with "de". And the French Wikipedia talks about Netherlands ("van"), Scotland ("Mac"), Ireland ("O") and Italy ("da").
Seems rather common.

I'm fairly sure that "Mac" means "son of" and is a reminant of the old naming scheme where you didn't have surnames so you were just "your dad's son". I don't think we have an "of" here. The only Scottish person I recall with that kind of thing was "Robert the Bruce" who was at the time "Robert De Bruce."

"Mac" has more in common with the suffix "son" than with the Japanese "no" or French "De." I would prefer "Akyuu Von Hieda" over "Akyuu Hiedano" though. If it were my choice I'd go for "Akyuu O'Hieda" but I think it's best to go with "Akyuu Hieda"

Actually, looking it up, "?" means "decendent of" (ie. Implying there was sombody with the first name "Hieda") so unfortunately "Akyuu O'Hieda" wouldn't work either. Akyuu Von Hieda it is
Title: Re: Yen Press licenses Touhou Suzunaan ~ Forbidden Scrollery
Post by: CyberAngel on November 09, 2017, 06:52:31 PM
inb4 licensed translation has more errors and lost details than any fan-made one

Yep. I'm preparing the metaphorical popcorn. Looks like it's gonna be quite a ride.
Title: Re: Yen Press licenses Touhou Suzunaan ~ Forbidden Scrollery
Post by: Romantique Tp on November 09, 2017, 09:13:38 PM
Wow, a translator made a single assumption that's not even completely wrong. Something that (as far as I remember) doesn't even matter at all during volume 1 and probably wont even cause any confusion once they start bringing up Akyuu's family name. What a huge deal.

Title: Re: Yen Press licenses Touhou Suzunaan ~ Forbidden Scrollery
Post by: Gpop on November 09, 2017, 10:05:40 PM
I'm gonna have to agree with others and say that that translation is...odd. Like, this is something the translators should have known about and picked up easily, since in the  form that it's in, that naming is just plain wrong.

That said, I wonder if this stays consistent for the rest of the book if they ever reference her last name as such again, or if that issue pops up only once in that page. If so...I'll be concerned about other future characters with the same naming convention (ie. Kokoro Hatano)
Title: Re: Yen Press licenses Touhou Suzunaan ~ Forbidden Scrollery
Post by: Drake on November 09, 2017, 11:30:34 PM
"The Beautiful Shaman of Paradise"
"Utterly Normal Magician"

Well, it now becomes crystal clear that the translator is doing it blind, i.e. w/o references.
Both of these are still correct though. The most "weird" thing is 素敵 translated as "beautiful" where given the series' context the connotation of "fantastic" is probably what's intended. There is no difference between writing "Ordinary" or "Normal" besides convention, and "Shaman" is literally written in katakana. If you seriously think the problem is with Shaman you are in no position to even look at the page and argue a translation is wrong.
Title: Re: Yen Press licenses Touhou Suzunaan ~ Forbidden Scrollery
Post by: Clarste on November 10, 2017, 01:49:22 AM
I do think "beautiful" is a problem though, because I think describing her as beautiful makes absolutely no sense in the context of the series. That's just not a feature that ZUN would care enough about to put in a character title (as opposed to "Fantastic" or the like). To me it implies that the translator has no background in Touhou and didn't do much research, which can easily cause problems down the line when they start obliquely referencing things the reader is already supposed to know.
Title: Re: Yen Press licenses Touhou Suzunaan ~ Forbidden Scrollery
Post by: Shadowlupus on November 10, 2017, 01:51:22 AM
Of course not. I guess I'm sorry that I didn't make it clear in the first post that I just want to show everyone that they are not using wiki or anything as references/spell-check, etc. I didn't say that it was a good or bad thing. I didn't have any problem with translators using different words, as long as it doesn't divert from the original meaning.

Also, of course, I think the problem lies in "Beautiful" instead of "Shaman." I've read every single title both in Japanese and English on the wiki so I know what I'm doing. I'm 100% sure that beautiful and wonderful are entirely different characteristics.

That's just not a feature that ZUN would care enough about to put in a character title (as opposed to "Fantastic" or the like).

Iku's character title is Beautiful Scarlet Cloth so that's something, I guess?
Title: Re: Yen Press licenses Touhou Suzunaan ~ Forbidden Scrollery
Post by: Lebon14 on November 10, 2017, 02:48:11 AM
I feel like I'm being shamed by people for not purchasing this tome over the translation mistakes / translation choices used by Yen Press.
Title: Re: Yen Press licenses Touhou Suzunaan ~ Forbidden Scrollery
Post by: N-Forza on November 10, 2017, 06:03:29 AM
Iku's character title is Beautiful Scarlet Cloth so that's something, I guess?
That's because the Japanese used in Iku's title has a stronger connotation of "beautiful" unlike 素敵 which can have a number of meanings.
Title: Re: Yen Press licenses Touhou Suzunaan ~ Forbidden Scrollery
Post by: Drake on November 10, 2017, 06:18:04 AM
I feel like I'm being shamed by people for not purchasing this tome over the translation mistakes / translation choices used by Yen Press.
You shouldn't be shamed. I apologize if it's me putting you off but as I've said a couple of times my issue isn't with any personal decisions to not spend money, it's the general stance to boycott a thing based on fixable errors. Again, criticism is absolutely warranted but this can easily turn into people making suggestions that the release shouldn't be supported, which can be dangerous.

Do we really want the outcome of this venture to have the fan's general response be "this translation is pretty bad so let's not support it", have sales be awful, Yen Press maybe releases a couple volumes then drops it because they think people don't actually want the Touhou manga, and have no other publisher want to pick it up for the same reasons? It's not like I'm suggesting that fans should support licensed publications blindly, but we should be working to try and make this a success for the benefit of everyone.
Title: Re: Yen Press licenses Touhou Suzunaan ~ Forbidden Scrollery
Post by: Shadowlupus on November 10, 2017, 07:34:48 AM
Yen Press maybe releases a couple volumes then drops it because they think people don't actually want the Touhou manga, and have no other publisher want to pick it up for the same reasons?

I think this is the exact same scenario for Capcom not releasing old games. Instead of thinking of a reason why some games/reboots fail (not enough ads/buggy release etc.), they instead conclude that fans don't actually want these games and drop them all entirely, leaving fans still angry to this day.

It's a dilemma. We have to support Yen Press if we want more volumes to come out, but in worst case, if they don't listen to our feedbacks regarding their translations (if they are very bad) they will continue to make mistake like this. As a result, we might think it's just better to not buy it but we can't do that. This train of thought is looping back and forth!

As a middle-ground solution, we have to begrudgingly buy the book to show our support but not read it. Even then, it's a waste of money. Moreover, who would benefit from the book being translated if no one's gonna read it? New fans? Old fans? I think it's neither. However, we do not have much choices.


In Thailand over here, FS publishing comes to a halt, possibly forever, even if the translation is done by a professional translator, the admin himself. It's because there's not enough people who care enough about the series to buy it. I believe the number of fans overall is less than 100. It's unfortunately a sad situation. I don't want the same to happen to the west either.


Anyway, the real question is...Is it possible for everyone, including new fans, to compromise over the inconsistencies in translations? Ex. Flandre to Frandoll, Marryberry to Maribel and Hiedano to Hieda, etc.

All in all, I sincerely hope that everything goes well for everyone.
Title: Re: Yen Press licenses Touhou Suzunaan ~ Forbidden Scrollery
Post by: Drake on November 10, 2017, 08:01:40 AM
The trap is succumbing to the idea that some other publisher will pick it up if YP drops the ball. This train has already left the station; all we can do is try to make sure it stays on course.
Title: Re: Yen Press licenses Touhou Suzunaan ~ Forbidden Scrollery
Post by: CyberAngel on November 10, 2017, 08:08:12 AM
Frankly, I call into question the "fixable" part. Is Yen Press even going to listen to fan feedback? Are there precedents? Because if not we'll be stuck with errors that will have more weight for some people (newcomers especially) due to being "official" as opposed to well-researched but fan-made translations. I mean, if you want to support ZUN then you might as well just import the tankobon. Meanwhile, supporting this thing will also signal it's okay to keep doing subpar translations. Either way, it's not doing something irreplacable for the fandom. We have enough awesome translators to keep up with the official stuff. Settling for a worse option is the road to stagnation.
Title: Re: Yen Press licenses Touhou Suzunaan ~ Forbidden Scrollery
Post by: ToyoRai on November 10, 2017, 09:46:16 AM
I guess to voice my opinion on this; Just because a translation is correct, doesn't mean it is necessarily a good one. Yes, Reimu's title uses the word shaman. However, should you translate it as that in the context of Reimu? And even if Akyuu's surname is written as "Hiedano", should you really translate it as that, especially when you are going to use western order? And just because they are the only questionable translations we know of, doesn't mean they are the only ones.
Since the series is getting a paperback release, hopefully any criticism they get and would implement does get added as early to the series as possible so that it's not like half the series uses certain translation and then suddenly it switches to something else.
Title: Re: Yen Press licenses Touhou Suzunaan ~ Forbidden Scrollery
Post by: TrueShadow on November 10, 2017, 05:22:09 PM
I guess to voice my opinion on this; Just because a translation is correct, doesn't mean it is necessarily a good one. Yes, Reimu's title uses the word shaman. However, should you translate it as that in the context of Reimu? And even if Akyuu's surname is written as "Hiedano", should you really translate it as that, especially when you are going to use western order? And just because they are the only questionable translations we know of, doesn't mean they are the only ones.
Since the series is getting a paperback release, hopefully any criticism they get and would implement does get added as early to the series as possible so that it's not like half the series uses certain translation and then suddenly it switches to something else.
I don't really care about Hieda vs Hiedano, but yeah, they should keep Reimu's title as "shaman". It's written in English, in katakana, so that's clearly what ZUN wanted her English title to be.

Just to make it clear, all character titles in FS have an English word somewhere in it.

Kosuzu's is "Bibliophile", Akyuu's is "Savant", Reimu, Marisa, and Mamizou's respectively are "Shaman", "Magician", and "Disguiser".
Title: Re: Yen Press licenses Touhou Suzunaan ~ Forbidden Scrollery
Post by: MrNoobomnenie on November 10, 2017, 09:54:36 PM
Meanwhile, Clastre in his Tumblr has been started to directly insulting the ones, who don't agree with him. So, if you don't like "Hiedano", but like "Flandre" and "Maribel", you're "an asshole" now. With so toxic community, I think, we just don't deserve to have Touhou officially published in the West.
Title: Re: Yen Press licenses Touhou Suzunaan ~ Forbidden Scrollery
Post by: ToyoRai on November 10, 2017, 10:28:16 PM
I don't really care about Hieda vs Hiedano, but yeah, they should keep Reimu's title as "shaman". It's written in English, in katakana, so that's clearly what ZUN wanted her English title to be.

Just to make it clear, all character titles in FS have an English word somewhere in it.

Kosuzu's is "Bibliophile", Akyuu's is "Savant", Reimu, Marisa, and Mamizou's respectively are "Shaman", "Magician", and "Disguiser".
If that is the case, then I guess so. My concern in that case comes with consistency. Like if her title specifically uses shaman, should any mention of shrine maiden/miko be translated as shaman, or as shrine maiden? Is that one mention of shaman meant to be the official translation of just one-time quirk?
Title: Re: Yen Press licenses Touhou Suzunaan ~ Forbidden Scrollery
Post by: Clarste on November 10, 2017, 10:34:04 PM
Meanwhile, Clastre in his Tumblr has been started to directly insulting the ones, who don't agree with him. So, if you don't like "Hiedano", but like "Flandre" and "Maribel", you're "an asshole" now. With so toxic community, I think, we just don't deserve to have Touhou officially published in the West.
No no no, you personally are an asshole. You've been the only one messaging me personally about these things and just telling me I'm wrong with no evidence instead of participating in the public discussion. This was the culmination of dealing with you for months, or maybe years, I don't even know anymore. I ran out of patience for you, sorry.

The fact that you immediately came here to report that just makes me more confident in my decision.
Title: Re: Yen Press licenses Touhou Suzunaan ~ Forbidden Scrollery
Post by: MrNoobomnenie on November 10, 2017, 10:40:59 PM
You've been the only one messaging me personally about these things and just telling me I'm wrong with no evidence instead of participating in the public discussion
I'm messaging you personally only because i just don't know, how to "participating in the public discussion" (actually, a have no idea, how the Tumblr works).
Title: Re: Yen Press licenses Touhou Suzunaan ~ Forbidden Scrollery
Post by: Clarste on November 10, 2017, 10:43:15 PM
If that is the case, then I guess so. My concern in that case comes with consistency. Like if her title specifically uses shaman, should any mention of shrine maiden/miko be translated as shaman, or as shrine maiden? Is that one mention of shaman meant to be the official translation of just one-time quirk?

That's an interesting question. Some of them are clearly just translations of their normal titles, like Magician and Maid, while others like Disguiser are more whimsical. It's not entirely clear, but I do think Shaman must show up as the translation of 巫女 in some common Japanese-English dictionaries because it shows up pretty regularly if you look for it.
Title: Re: Yen Press licenses Touhou Suzunaan ~ Forbidden Scrollery
Post by: Lebon14 on November 10, 2017, 10:55:52 PM
Meanwhile, Clastre in his Tumblr has been started to directly insulting the ones, who don't agree with him. So, if you don't like "Hiedano", but like "Flandre" and "Maribel", you're "an asshole" now.
That's exactly how I felt reading Clarste in the last two days. I felt the same way which prompted me to write the comment below:
I feel like I'm being shamed by people for not purchasing this tome over the translation mistakes / translation choices used by Yen Press.
Title: Re: Yen Press licenses Touhou Suzunaan ~ Forbidden Scrollery
Post by: Clarste on November 10, 2017, 11:03:23 PM
Well, the original point was just "why are people suddenly so pedantic about Hiedano when Flandre and Maribel have always been super-wrong and no one cares?" Followed by a huge amount of discussion of why exactly they're wrong because I think I overestimated how common-knowledge that was. I've repeatedly said that you can prefer whatever name you want, but if you're trying to argue based on what's more "accurate" then I do think it's pretty hypocritical to accept Maribel as a translation of マエリベリー. If you like Maribel better then just say that. Don't use your feelings as an excuse to ignore facts.

I've tried to be as polite as I can, but people are literally yelling at me about this.
Title: Re: Yen Press licenses Touhou Suzunaan ~ Forbidden Scrollery
Post by: Kilgamayan on November 10, 2017, 11:48:08 PM
Off-site drama being dragged into this thread ends now, thanks.

While we're in the practice of ending things, martyr complexes can be 86ed as well.
Title: Re: Yen Press licenses Touhou Suzunaan ~ Forbidden Scrollery
Post by: Clarste on November 11, 2017, 12:26:55 AM
Sorry.
Title: Re: Yen Press licenses Touhou Suzunaan ~ Forbidden Scrollery
Post by: 7TC7 on November 11, 2017, 08:54:27 AM
I already preordered Volume 1 some time ago and am just looking forward to finally hold it in my hands and read it with my eyes. There might be mistakes in it, but as mentioned above, there are also mistakes in the fan-translations of ... everything touhou related? Going by how much discussion about translation comes up everytime a new game is released, that seems to be the case. They probably also discussed some things they weren't sure about and made a decision in the end. It might have been the wrong one, but they'll find out eventually. I am entirely positive about this for now - at least until I read it and am proven wrong, but in that case I just won't get V2 and/or give feedback if thats possible (it has been mentioned a few times above, but I don't know how I'd go about contacting them)?

Personally I am happy they are going at this without looking up the fan-translated stuff first. That would be playing Easy Mode. Let them put some work into it and find their own Touhou. Who knows, maybe they'll stumble about a better translation for something than what the fans did down the line.
Title: Re: Yen Press licenses Touhou Suzunaan ~ Forbidden Scrollery
Post by: Shadowlupus on November 11, 2017, 09:18:24 AM
https://www.animenewsnetwork.com/feature/2017-11-09/the-fall-2017-manga-guide/forbidden-scrollery/.123817

The FS review's already up. *flees*
Title: Re: Yen Press licenses Touhou Suzunaan ~ Forbidden Scrollery
Post by: Clarste on November 11, 2017, 09:18:52 AM
Now I know animenewsnetwork doesn't have the best reputation for reviews, but they do bring up the sort of concerns you'd expect from a reader going in without Touhou knowledge. It's interesting to hear opinions like this, in my opinion.

But also irrelevant because I do have Touhou knowledge.
Title: Re: Yen Press licenses Touhou Suzunaan ~ Forbidden Scrollery
Post by: Shizzo on November 11, 2017, 10:13:52 AM
Indeed, if you were to imagine someone not acquainted with touhou reading these, they'd certainly find a lot of things odd.  One of them even mentioned the excessive amount of Cameos, which, for us fans, are quite welcoming, but for those who don't know who those people are, they might think Girl X or Y are actually relevant to that chapter's plot.

Suffice it to say, I wonder if we'll have more 'pro' reviews of FS, because I'd love to hear the professional review of someone who actually is into Touhou and knows its' characters. 
Title: Re: Yen Press licenses Touhou Suzunaan ~ Forbidden Scrollery
Post by: Jeremie on November 11, 2017, 10:33:31 AM
I also can't help to wonder about this primarily because, in my opinion, Vol. 1 of Forbidden Scrollery is very weak. I feel like it does some good stuff well like establishing Kosuzu's personality a little but... even though people says she's the main character, I couldn't find myself able to agree. I felt like she came off as a reckless fool and, well, I think that's the idea but eventually it made her come off as obnoxious and the fact she kept on going didn't help even though there were some folks able to fix the problems. The fact there were little repercussions at first didn't help the matter. She also doesn't do much nor does she appear a whole lot. Early on I feel like Reimu and Marisa are more of the main characters which would be understandable if Kosuzu was the audience surrogate but... I don't think that particularly applies to her early on.

IMO Wild and Horned Hermit had a rocky start too but I feel it established Kasen as a main character more clearly as she was more present and involved in the things that were happening. I think Forbidden Scrollery started to shine once Vol. 3 showed up. I found the stories to be more interesting, the characterization to be much better and the use of Kosuzu to be way better. I didn't like the character personally at first but I felt she became far more likeable in general and I think it helps that she was involved in the chapters way more. In my opinion, The Skeptical Book Renter is one of the best Touhou canon stories ever because it strongly establish Kosuzu's identity... while also getting Akyuu to be more involved as she would become an important character too and there, she also strongly brings one of the the biggest themes of Forbidden Scrollery. It's also a surprisingly heartwarming chapter which makes it "fun" too even though it doesn't drop all the tension found in many of the chapters.

Still, if new readers grabs Vol. 1, I hope they'll enjoy it because I think it would allow them to enjoy how the book gradually gets better and better... which reminds me that it's kind of a shame that the conclusion is, or at least feels rushed but then again, personally, I liked the conclusion in term of what happened with Kosuzu.
Title: Re: Yen Press licenses Touhou Suzunaan ~ Forbidden Scrollery
Post by: WishMakers on November 11, 2017, 10:04:06 PM
I'm not familiar with this site...are those ratings out of 10?  If so...wow, that's not a great sign.
Even if that's not the case and it were out of 5 or something, that's pretty weak probably compared to other manga out there.  I don't know if the goal with Forbidden Scrollery was reach, but if it was, those reviews are not going to help people getting into Touhou for the first time.
I personally haven't read the manga but really want to, and I remember from some fan translations that Forbidden Scrollery seemed interesting, so I wonder what's the contributing factor here.
Title: Re: Yen Press licenses Touhou Suzunaan ~ Forbidden Scrollery
Post by: ToyoRai on November 11, 2017, 10:19:18 PM
The ratings there are out of 5.
Title: Re: Yen Press licenses Touhou Suzunaan ~ Forbidden Scrollery
Post by: nyttyn on November 13, 2017, 07:55:13 AM
For the most part Forbidden Scrollery kind of works around Motoori instead of with her - especially in the later half, which while stronger definitely shoves Motoori really hard out of the spotlight.

Honestly speaking Forbidden Scrollery is really weak as a series even past volume 1, as is mostly just cameos/cute art/hype moments/world building. That's not to say I dislike it - in fact, I regard it highly, with context, but as its own independent entity it's extremely weak, even once it gets rolling. I wouldn't be surprised if later volumes review just as poorly. But as its own plot - it's basically a series of pointless build ups towards payoffs that never, and cannot (due to how the series is set up), happen.

Wild and Horned Hermit gets a little bit more leniency in this regard in my eyes since it does explore Kasen's character and give us a few surprise moments here and there, even if the pacing is still extremely awful. There's at least an attempt at a story (Kasen herself, namely) being told there, and Kasen's almost always at least involved. Forbidden Scrollery, on the other hand, seems even more obsessed with cameos and exploring world building than with trying to explore Motoori's story or even trying to involve her as time goes on, to the point where the conclusion to her personal story is very right field and anti-climactic. Again, I must stress this doesn't make it bad as a work with context, but without that context and on its own merits Forbidden Scrollery is very, very weak, even in later volumes.
Title: Re: Yen Press licenses Touhou Suzunaan ~ Forbidden Scrollery
Post by: Lt Colonel Summers on November 13, 2017, 08:07:52 AM
For the most part Forbidden Scrollery kind of works around Motoori instead of with her - especially in the later half, which while stronger definitely shoves Motoori really hard out of the spotlight.

Honestly speaking Forbidden Scrollery is really weak as a series even past volume 1, as is mostly just cameos/cute art/hype moments/world building. That's not to say I dislike it - in fact, I regard it highly, with context, but as its own independent entity it's extremely weak, even once it gets rolling. I wouldn't be surprised if later volumes review just as poorly. But as its own plot - it's basically a series of pointless build ups towards payoffs that never, and cannot (due to how the series is set up), happen.

Wild and Horned Hermit gets a little bit more leniency in this regard in my eyes since it does explore Kasen's character and give us a few surprise moments here and there, even if the pacing is still extremely awful. There's at least an attempt at a story (Kasen herself, namely) being told there, and Kasen's almost always at least involved. Forbidden Scrollery, on the other hand, seems even more obsessed with cameos and exploring world building than with trying to explore Motoori's story or even trying to involve her as time goes on, to the point where the conclusion to her personal story is very right field and anti-climactic. Again, I must stress this doesn't make it bad as a work with context, but without that context and on its own merits Forbidden Scrollery is very, very weak, even in later volumes.

Just curious about this, but why are you referring to Kosuzu by her surname?
Title: Re: Yen Press licenses Touhou Suzunaan ~ Forbidden Scrollery
Post by: Shadowlupus on November 13, 2017, 08:23:18 AM
I think people just are all used to stories with one main goal and plot, with occasional characterizations in filler episodes, etc.

Touhou are the opposite of that trend. It builds the world and characters around several unrelated plots with no real coherent, big bad/organization menacing the main character/world and I think that's what make it so unappealing to unfamiliar readers. Of course, unless the sypnosis of the story tells them that it's going to be just a slice of life.

I guess those reviewer misunderstands FS to be about horror or Aesop-esque.
Title: Re: Yen Press licenses Touhou Suzunaan ~ Forbidden Scrollery
Post by: the old guy on November 13, 2017, 08:45:41 AM
ZUN's bad at writing stories. Just saying. I've read fan fics better written than FS/WaHH.

Of course even then those reviews are clearly poorly written. Literally any touhou fan will recognize who Sakuya is and why she's there. Same for Letty. The reviewers are just looking for a excuse to shit on the manga.

Also they dissed Moe's art. Screw that, her art is great.
Title: Re: Yen Press licenses Touhou Suzunaan ~ Forbidden Scrollery
Post by: CyberAngel on November 13, 2017, 09:03:43 AM
ZUN's bad at writing stories. Just saying. I've read fan fics better written than FS/WaHH.

Tomatoes are not as sweet as oranges. That doesn't make them bad vegetables. It just means you're expecting the wrong thing from them. Just saying.

Of course even then those reviews are clearly poorly written. Literally any touhou fan will recognize who Sakuya is and why she's there. Same for Letty. The reviewers are just looking for a excuse to shit on the manga.

Touhou fans - yes. But they looked at it as complete newcomers that they are - which will be true for most of their readers as well. And frankly, Touhou mangas aren't that great as an entry point into the series, as people have said here already.
Title: Re: Yen Press licenses Touhou Suzunaan ~ Forbidden Scrollery
Post by: ToyoRai on November 13, 2017, 11:54:34 AM
I guess one if biggest problems with the mangas when it comes to being read alone is when they specific reference the other games. For example in FS, chapters 10 and 11 requires to know what happened in HM to not be really lost on what characters are talking about, or who Kokoro really is. One of latest examples overall would be WaHH, where 40 and 41 set up so to speak the plot for HSiFS, and then 42 skips after the events of the game has concluded.
Title: Re: Yen Press licenses Touhou Suzunaan ~ Forbidden Scrollery
Post by: TresserT on November 14, 2017, 05:17:01 AM
For the most part Forbidden Scrollery kind of works around Motoori instead of with her - especially in the later half, which while stronger definitely shoves Motoori really hard out of the spotlight.

Honestly speaking Forbidden Scrollery is really weak as a series even past volume 1, as is mostly just cameos/cute art/hype moments/world building. That's not to say I dislike it - in fact, I regard it highly, with context, but as its own independent entity it's extremely weak, even once it gets rolling. I wouldn't be surprised if later volumes review just as poorly. But as its own plot - it's basically a series of pointless build ups towards payoffs that never, and cannot (due to how the series is set up), happen.

Wild and Horned Hermit gets a little bit more leniency in this regard in my eyes since it does explore Kasen's character and give us a few surprise moments here and there, even if the pacing is still extremely awful. There's at least an attempt at a story (Kasen herself, namely) being told there, and Kasen's almost always at least involved. Forbidden Scrollery, on the other hand, seems even more obsessed with cameos and exploring world building than with trying to explore Motoori's story or even trying to involve her as time goes on, to the point where the conclusion to her personal story is very right field and anti-climactic. Again, I must stress this doesn't make it bad as a work with context, but without that context and on its own merits Forbidden Scrollery is very, very weak, even in later volumes.

Tbh I agree with this. For what it is, I very much love and appreciate Forbidden Scrollery, and all the mangas for that matter. But aside from maybe the fairy ones, they clearly aren't meant to be read by themselves. They're supplemental to the games. ZUN uses them as a means of showcasing characters that otherwise wouldn't get much focus. He kind of has to do it this way. But if you're reading the mangas by themselves then they're kind of all over the place.

And you can't really expect a manga reviewer to get into the games. They have to review the book for the book, not for its place in the series. So I can understand why it might get a bad review.
Title: Re: Yen Press licenses Touhou Suzunaan ~ Forbidden Scrollery
Post by: Lt Colonel Summers on November 14, 2017, 05:40:51 AM
Well, at least Yen Press left "Youkai Books" and "Enenra" as is in their translations, at least in the panels shown in Anime News Network's review page.
Though I was kind of irked that their translation gives Marisa the exact same accent as everyone else (save Mamizou?).

Speaking of translation, how did Yen Press deal with the organ/organic farming pun that turned up in the first chapter?
Title: Re: Yen Press licenses Touhou Suzunaan ~ Forbidden Scrollery
Post by: commandercool on November 17, 2017, 04:51:47 PM
Picked up my copy last night. Haven't really had time to look at it yet, but I can confirm that it is a book!
Title: Re: Yen Press licenses Touhou Suzunaan ~ Forbidden Scrollery
Post by: aUsernameIsFineToo on November 21, 2017, 01:05:46 AM
(https://jcz95.dynu.com/img/3omzUqgHq8sOMoD9.png)
Pre-ordered on Amazon and the release date has been delayed twice. I wonder what that's all about...
Title: Re: Yen Press licenses Touhou Suzunaan ~ Forbidden Scrollery
Post by: Drake on November 21, 2017, 04:38:40 AM
second-edition print kappa
Title: Re: Yen Press licenses Touhou Suzunaan ~ Forbidden Scrollery
Post by: the old guy on November 22, 2017, 12:04:22 AM
(https://78.media.tumblr.com/7dd914968a5599fdb2968e511a266c51/tumblr_inline_ozp9050xny1tlcdux_540.jpg)

Welp, so much for Hiedano.
Title: Re: Yen Press licenses Touhou Suzunaan ~ Forbidden Scrollery
Post by: Drake on November 22, 2017, 01:10:34 AM
It's Hieda in that instance and still Hiedano everywhere they use her name, which is exactly the kind of totally ass-backwards that I was warning about earlier. They have editor notes that say she is a reference to "Are Hiedano", which you literally will not get any results for when googling despite being a known figure. Amazing.


Also, to try and cut the flow before it spreads, while the book's translation credits ZephyrRz, more well known as Kafka-Fuura in these parts, they themselves assert that they did not translate the book (https://twitter.com/ZephyrRz/status/933100926239260672). As they had previously done work with YP, their opinion seems to be that someone is using their name somehow after hands switched on an old project.
Title: Re: Yen Press licenses Touhou Suzunaan ~ Forbidden Scrollery
Post by: Gpop on November 22, 2017, 06:51:09 PM
It's Hieda in that instance and still Hiedano everywhere they use her name, which is exactly the kind of totally ass-backwards that I was warning about earlier. They have editor notes that say she is a reference to "Are Hiedano", which you literally will not get any results for when googling despite being a known figure. Amazing.

Actually,  hilariously enough, when I google "Are Hiedano", I do get results...except it's because Google is actually smart enough to recognize I actually meant "Hieda No Are" and gives me wikipedia page with the correct name spelling in it. (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hieda_no_Are)

Quote
Also, to try and cut the flow before it spreads, while the book's translation credits ZephyrRz, more well known as Kafka-Fuura in these parts, they themselves assert that they did not translate the book (https://twitter.com/ZephyrRz/status/933100926239260672). As they had previously done work with YP, their opinion seems to be that someone is using their name somehow after hands switched on an old project.
Seems like it was a mistake from YP's side and are gonna fix it in later issues. (https://twitter.com/ZephyrRz/status/933376997996285952)
Title: Re: Yen Press licenses Touhou Suzunaan ~ Forbidden Scrollery
Post by: Lebon14 on November 22, 2017, 08:46:06 PM
That's a relief.
Title: Re: Yen Press licenses Touhou Suzunaan ~ Forbidden Scrollery
Post by: myon on November 23, 2017, 02:23:47 PM
Up in the cold north of Europe, waiting for Amazon to deliver me vol. 1, Looking forward to finally having a physical copy in my possession.

Not too bothered by the Hiedano thing myself but it is clearly a really, really lazy mistake to make. Can't say I've seen 'no' been combined into one name anywhere else, so it's really weird. Hopefully with feedback that's not gonna happen for later prints/volume 2.
Title: Re: Yen Press licenses Touhou Suzunaan ~ Forbidden Scrollery
Post by: Drake on November 23, 2017, 04:23:15 PM
They've claimed that it's an intentional decision, and the fact that they use "Are Hiedano" in the notes reinforces that claim. They haven't responded to any requests for clarification as to why.
Title: Re: Yen Press licenses Touhou Suzunaan ~ Forbidden Scrollery
Post by: myon on November 23, 2017, 04:35:59 PM
Well that's pretty cruddy, I can't imagine anything that justifies that change. It's gonna annoy me now as a result, hurgfh
Title: Re: Yen Press licenses Touhou Suzunaan ~ Forbidden Scrollery
Post by: Drake on November 23, 2017, 04:41:04 PM
It looks incredibly silly and does nothing to inform the audience but is ultimately not a big deal.
Title: Re: Yen Press licenses Touhou Suzunaan ~ Forbidden Scrollery
Post by: myon on November 23, 2017, 05:40:15 PM
True, I suppose the majority who is picking up the mangas are people already familiar with the character, so it's not gonna cause any real confusion.
Title: Re: Yen Press licenses Touhou Suzunaan ~ Forbidden Scrollery
Post by: Drake on November 23, 2017, 10:20:56 PM
I'm also considering the fact that people not familiar with the series picking up Forbidden Scrollery have much more to be concerned about than name discrepancies from a series they don't know.
Title: Re: Yen Press licenses Touhou Suzunaan ~ Forbidden Scrollery
Post by: CapTengu on December 02, 2017, 08:51:13 PM
I'm also considering the fact that people not familiar with the series picking up Forbidden Scrollery have much more to be concerned about than name discrepancies from a series they don't know.
Ditto.
The large amount of cameos, for example.
Title: Re: Yen Press licenses Touhou Suzunaan ~ Forbidden Scrollery
Post by: niektory on December 07, 2017, 05:20:59 AM
So, aside from the Hiedano thing, how is it?
Title: Re: Yen Press licenses Touhou Suzunaan ~ Forbidden Scrollery
Post by: Gesh86 on December 28, 2017, 09:50:03 PM
So, aside from the Hiedano thing, how is it?

Arranged it so that I got mine as a Christmas present and finished it during today's lunch break. It was a pleasant read.

Kosuzu is so very precious. I can see why people like her despite never appearing in games and having no spellcards. It also cracks me up that Mamizou's disguise is so easy to see through for the actual reader and you're just supposed to suspend your disbelief.
Byakuren starring in the closing one-off story but not actually being Byakuren but still reacting as Byakuren to the Tanuki's death in the end might have been the best part of it all
Title: Re: Yen Press licenses Touhou Suzunaan ~ Forbidden Scrollery
Post by: Drake on February 12, 2018, 10:25:57 AM
Volumes 3 and 4 are up for preorder, released May 22 and August 21 respectively; currently 4 doesn't have a listing for paperback though.
Title: Re: Yen Press licenses Touhou Suzunaan ~ Forbidden Scrollery
Post by: RoamerB on February 12, 2018, 10:46:54 AM
Actually, a Paperback listing for Vol. 4 along with an e-book listing for Vol. 5 appeared. With the current release schedule, we can expect Vol. 7 to come out in late May next year.
Title: Re: Yen Press licenses Touhou Suzunaan ~ Forbidden Scrollery
Post by: CyberAngel on May 29, 2019, 06:40:53 AM
Megabump, but the final volume has been released. The first official Touhou translation is completed.

So, anyone got all volumes? Anything interesting as far as translation goes? (Besides "Akyu Hiedano", that is.)
Title: Re: Yen Press licenses Touhou Suzunaan ~ Forbidden Scrollery
Post by: Gesh86 on June 11, 2019, 06:56:28 PM
So, anyone got all volumes? Anything interesting as far as translation goes? (Besides "Akyu Hiedano", that is.)

Finished the series today, had a very good time. You could say vol. 1 to 5 are mostly filler episodes to get you acquainted with the characters and setting so that the stakes are higher at the end. For the last 2 manga, Forbidden Scrollery picks up the pace and goes somewhere.
I didn't find any names or phrases of which the translation offended me. There was always a register at the end explaining a few mythologies or proverbs that were used. I assume that wasn't in the original japanese?
Title: Re: Yen Press licenses Touhou Suzunaan ~ Forbidden Scrollery
Post by: commandercool on June 12, 2019, 02:54:33 AM
I've got all of the volumes buried throughout my stack of unread books. I've read the first three in hard copy and I don't have any particular comment about the translation, but I'm not very knowledgeable about that kind of thing.