Maidens of the Kaleidoscope
~Hakurei Shrine~ => Alice's Art Atelier => Topic started by: Teewee on December 21, 2012, 01:36:25 PM
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Of the art I'm not too embarassed to show, anyway ^^;
I'd appreciate feedback on improvement, especially the detailed and comparative kind. It's a bit scary for me to make a topic like this, so yeah. And please give specific advice; general advice pretty much doesn't work for me.
Fanart of Linde from Fire Emblem. Will release a new version sometime. (http://tidalespeon.deviantart.com/#/d5m0539)
An oc (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/94/51019034.png/)
A yugioh card oc, durr. Gonna add a background of trees sometime. (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/600/aurine.png/)
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Decided to try something new. Fire Emblem tome sketch (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/855/tomes.jpg/) :)
And a resketch of that Linde pic. Apparently my speed took away a bit of quality ^^; (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/62/resketch.png/)
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Figure drawing practice.
From the back (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/27/figure3compares.png/)
From the front (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/20/fig2compares.png/)
and From the side (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/715/fig1compares.png/)
I'd appreciate feedback on these. If it's not too much to ask, please tell me what I did right and what I did wrong. ^^; Oh, and how's the shaded hair look?
If it helps formulate the feedback any:
I was trying to stylize somewhat, drawing a short figure as opposed to the tall one I was told to study in a book. I tried to make the butt look plump, but of course, it looks off lol.
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You've improved, I think. But the side view is kind of terrifying.
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...thanks? :p So, what about it makes it look terrifying? Oh, and I ask that you be gentler in your feedback next time. Saying it looked "terrifying" was a bit much...
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I'd appreciate feedback on these. If it's not too much to ask, please tell me what I did right and what I did wrong. ^^;
You've improved, I think. But the side view is kind of terrifying.
Criticism means pointing out what was wrong, and offering how it could have been right. It's not hard.
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That profile view has some pretty bad anatomy, not gonna lie. People's faces are nowhere near that flat, for starters-- the nose sticks out more, as do the lips (and some people have supraorbital ridges that protrude from the forehead). The eyes should be a bit more indented, as well. The other views have their own problems but the profile view is the most in need of correction. I think you would benefit from checking out the information here (http://majnouna.deviantart.com/art/Big-Guide-to-Drawing-the-Body-15014442), particularly the bottom right (kinda nsfw due to artistic nude drawings, I guess). This (http://www.apollo13art.com/National/lifedrawing1/lectures/heads.html) also has some side views of the head that could hopefully help you out.
By figure practice, do you mean a mannikin like an art mannequin, or...?
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People usually don't lean backwards when they stand- it's usually straight up or slightly slouched forward. Neck is a bit too thick. Breasts don't attach from the collar; they're a bit further down. Think of them as hopefully less saggy water balloons. Bug eyes are unattractive and she doesn't have eyebrows. Eyes should not look the same from front and side view. Back is entirely wrong, but I don't really know how to describe it. Hands are uh well work on them, but not terrible.
I'd say don't draw animu for now because I sure as hell wish I didn't. You'll never be able to break yourself out of it. Like, ever. But since I know you're not going to listen, just don't bother stylizing and let it come naturally and work on other, more important, things. Drawing people of different facial and body structure is one thing; going out of your way to completely change how everything looks is another.
also this is entirely incoherent because it's 12:30 and i want to sleep gdi
srsly though you have improved a lot keep at it o/
e- forgot to mention that spines themselves aren't vertical and neither are backs
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Thanks for the advice, guys :) I'll apply the advice little by little, and then post new versions of those figures when I finish them.
@Tenshi Ruronai: I got what you mean, and I'll be trying out those resources you linked, thanks :) As for figure practice, I sometimes use a mannikin. With these figures specifically, I used some in an Andrew Loomis book as reference.
@kinoko: Just so I get it (since I honestly don't, hehe), what about the front-perspective figure makes it look like it's leaned backwards? Also, what did you mean by "letting it come naturally", and how do the eyes look like bug eyes? I get all the other advice you gave me, I'd just like help understanding what I asked you about ^^;
Thanks for the kind words, though! :) I'll be keeping at it.
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Drew some eyes, (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/703/eyes1m.jpg/)
more eyes
(http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/16/eyes2lt.jpg/)Figure of a lady running (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/837/run1z.jpg/)
my second version of it (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/839/run2n.jpg/)
I can tell I did the hands and feet wrong, sowhile I'm still trying to learn from the resources linked on this board, could anyone please give some specific advice on how to improve these feet, hands, and whatever else looks "bleh"? ^^;
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Hmmm I am not good at drawing ( I am studying to try to not draw boneless bodies :P) but I have some links for you:
http://hippie.nu/~unicorn/tut/xhtml/#basics-humananatomy-legs
http://majnouna.deviantart.com/art/Big-Guide-to-Drawing-the-Body-15014442
In these ones there are tips about general body anatomy, including hands and cia.
In your "lady running" drawing I had the impression that she was too small, maybe her trunk is too short. Also the joints between the trunks and arms looks strange, too thin. Well I think that these links will help you ;)
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I'll make repeated use of those links, thanks.
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Well, I made a quick redline of the last one, maybe it'll help a bit. (Terrible as it is. Also, I didn't draw the legs because I couldn't tell what the pose was meant to be :V)
Hands and feet tend to be incredibly difficult to draw anyway, so if I were you, I wouldn't fret over them just yet. Concentrate on the overall anatomy instead.
The first thing I notice is that the arms don't really seem to be properly connected to the body. The armpits are too high and there really shouldn't be that much of a bump on the shoulder. Other than that, it's mostly a case of the torso and limbs not being long enough. The first woman's legs are good, but the arms are way too short.
Still, there is definitely improvement going on. Keep it up!
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Thanks, that redline really helped :) I'll do as you said. As for the pose, I just tried to make her right leg (from her perspective)more bent forward than in the first version. Her left, making it bent backwards. Apparently-badly-executed foreshortening, and all that xD
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I have this stinging impression that you don't know the parts of the human body in relation to each other. Are you sure you aren't just drawing blindly with or without reference?
You should give up foreshortening or any of that complicated stuff until you actually know how the body looks and feels like.
http://artists.pixelovely.com/practice-tools/figure-drawing/
I recommend you do gesture drawing. Nude models only, 2 minutes on each pose. Do it for a few hours and maybe you might get a better grasp of the shape of the human body. That is not to say that you shouldn't study human body and proportions, because you're obviously lacking both in your drawings. That's clearly and painfully evident from your many drawings, like
http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/839/run2n.jpg/
This link you posted.
- Head is clearly too big
- Collarbone looks as fake as it can get. It's a curved bone that starts where the shoulder and torso connects. Get a skeletal photo and you'll know what I mean. It definitely isn't comprised of two arrows.
-Your shoulders seem like they're just attached to the torso with glue, and that's made worse because of the sharp armpits.
-Character is TOO SHORT. That's not a lady. That's a midget.
-Limb sizes in relation to each other is hella borked. Her right forearm is incredibly short, and even if you were aiming for foreshortening, the hand failed to convey that because of its orientation. Calves are as fat or even fatter than the thighs.
-Torso curve/hourglass shape seems to be done with absolutely no clue as to where it should curve.
-Navel(I'm assuming that's a navel) is in the wrong place.
-Mound of Venus is too wide. It's not just a "V" shape, there's a whole lot more to it that you have to understand.
-Hands seem incredibly lazy, because I can't see any effort put into it. Fingers are basically sausages, and the character's left hand's fingers seem to have only one joint.
-Feet are skewed and have no shape or form, as are the hands.
Bottom line is, you don't know how the human body works, and you need to study how it works. You draw tiddly bits like navel and collar bone, but you're just slapping them on without regard to their placement or shape. I'm not seeing a 3d figure, I'm seeing a flat bunch of curved and straight lines. Mayhaps you are improving, but you are making mistakes that shouldn't happen if you had clearly read and studied the resources that Kaze_Senshi gave you.
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I'd explain myself, but I guess that wouldn't accomplish much :fail: But, I think I get what you're trying to say.
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I'd explain myself, but I guess that wouldn't accomplish much :fail: But, I think I get what you're trying to say.
Then please, post the results of your gesture drawings when you get to it. I'd like to see the results.
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I will. Though, since I'm a very slow artist, they'll probably all be incomplete drawings (even when I set the timer to 10 minutes)...
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I will. Though, since I'm a very slow artist, they'll probably all be incomplete drawings (even when I set the timer to 10 minutes)...
Two minutes is the max. No more. Don't go over your lines, and be brisk about it. Minimal detail is fine. Incomplete drawings are no problem since you'll get used to it either way.
Also, stop being depressing.
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Allright, understood. Though for the record, I wasn't trying to be that depressing; sorry if I came off that way.
Though, to be fair: you were making a negative (and wrong!) assumption about me, so of course I'd get at least a little depressed.
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i just want to say
that unless you are intending to make this a career, dont force yourself to do anything you dont want to do, its a hobby, not a chore.........
also no one learns to draw in a day, and people have varying levels of learning
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scary
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@venappo: I wish I didn't have to force myself, but I do. By "different levels of learning", did you mean speed of learning? Because yeah, mine's extremely retarded, hehe.
@Yuuhime: not that much of a problem :V
Done 12 of those gesture sketches (http://imgur.com/zIrZUx5%2csGe30n9%2c0FcyuRs%2cnwHpcsZ%2c6ZR9TH7%2csyMV4DZ%2clGoiUuo%2cz8mwjRg%2chtUo86g%2cqeMGKF3), more on the way.
Also, I drew a Youmu a while back (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/442/yomuz.jpg/), and eventually learned that the fat-to-slim distribution across the body was too uneven (thanks, you-know-who-you-are! ^^). Also, lol flying sausage.
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Oh god fat Youmu... :o
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Done 12 of those gesture sketches (http://imgur.com/zIrZUx5%2csGe30n9%2c0FcyuRs%2cnwHpcsZ%2c6ZR9TH7%2csyMV4DZ%2clGoiUuo%2cz8mwjRg%2chtUo86g%2cqeMGKF3), more on the way.
Doing it wrong.
Read a figure drawing book or something.
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Done 12 of those gesture sketches (http://imgur.com/zIrZUx5%2csGe30n9%2c0FcyuRs%2cnwHpcsZ%2c6ZR9TH7%2csyMV4DZ%2clGoiUuo%2cz8mwjRg%2chtUo86g%2cqeMGKF3), more on the way.
Also, I drew a Youmu a while back (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/442/yomuz.jpg/), and eventually learned that the fat-to-slim distribution across the body was too uneven (thanks, you-know-who-you-are! ^^). Also, lol flying sausage.
@gestures: Hmm. Try this link (http://www.sailorenergy.net/Tutorials/HTDMainPage.html) a shot, it might help with the basics. My advice for a beginning artist: don't go straight into all the poses yet. I started out drawing the exact same pose over and over until I was familiar with it, and even then, none of my early drawings were good, so don't be discouraged if that happens. Practice drawing your subjects standing straight until you can get it consistently right.
@your Youmu: I was thinking of what to say about body size, but I forgot. Try drawing bodies thinner and taller than what you would normally do. As it is, the proportions are waaaaaay too skewed.
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@your Youmu: I was thinking of what to say about body size, but I forgot. Try drawing bodies thinner and taller than what you would normally do. As it is, the proportions are waaaaaay too skewed.
Yeah, it is hard to make body too tall and thin (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,14033.msg936368.html#msg936368), only such cool guys as me can do it. You, Espeon, will probably draw it right. :3
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@Delfigamer: I was going for a middleweight Youmu with thick thighs, but apparently...yeah xD And, thanks for the encouragement!
@kinoko: define "doing it wrong", please. Also, the language of all the figure drawing books I've read leave me unsure of what the heck to even do, so yeah. No, it doesn't mean I gave up on them.
@Pwn'd Crow: I'll look through that link some, thanks. I'll maybe try out the rest of the advice you tried, too. Speaking of a pose standing straight up, I made a pic of one earlier today. (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/824/001iqbb.jpg/)
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Heres a few figure/gesture drawing example videos:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QXSyagaarU4
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-AF4P881bQs
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xmiwGm32dXU
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wt2fL6vNMUk
Hope they help :P
Also, I found that when starting out gesture drawings using pen on paper was much better than doing it digitally and using the pen kept me from even thinking about erasing.
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Also, I found that when starting out gesture drawings using pen on paper was much better than doing it digitally and using the pen kept me from even thinking about erasing.
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dont run when you cant walk though
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I'll watch and later mull over those videos, and see if that helps. As for "walking before running", I have started off trying out the basic stuff; I just never understood anything but the wire frame. And even then, my knowledge on that is sketchy ^^; But ofc, I'll keep trying with the resources I've been given.
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Did some more stuff!
A bunch of heads, 3 of which have wavy hair. (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/812/004bel.jpg/)
Fun with cylinders and truncated cones! (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/221/003bmd.jpg/)
Awkward first draft of a base fig for what'll end up as touhou fanart. (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/59/002deg.jpg/)
^ I know that the arms are too low (which I'll fix in the next ver). And, that the figure looks awkkard even otherwise. ^^;
Feedback would be appreciated! Especially on that wavy hair and figure :)
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The ears shouldn't be so high up; they should be at the juncture of the back of the neck meeting the cranium. And one of those pictures has her opposite ear somehow visible from the other side, which shouldn't happen unless her ears move forward and not back.
The third one down is probably my favourite of those four. You're improving, keep it up~
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Fun with cylinders and truncated cones! (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/221/003bmd.jpg/)
Hm, I'll recommend you to first draw parallelepipeds, and only then turn them into rounded shapes. That way you will be able to make more correct distortion of circles at ends.
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@Koishi Ruromeji: Understood, and thanks for the encouragement. As for the ear placement, the bottom of the ears is placed at this line? (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/854/ofneck.jpg/)
@Delfigamer: I'll try that sometime.
Also, I've often been getting paralyzed while drawing; its that feeling of not knowing what to do next to draw, and a bunch of stuff that just feels horrible. How do I avoid this?
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That's what's known as Artist's Block. It's inevitable, it can't be avoided. You just have to get through it as best you can.
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Even though it makes it so I can't move forward with a drawing? o_o All right, then. Also, are there any art books that teach in an informal fashion, like Mike Dawson's Python Programming for the Absolute Beginner, or even a cracked article? the ones I've got confuse the heck out of me, and I've never been able to get much from them.
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@Koishi Ruromeji: Understood, and thanks for the encouragement. As for the ear placement, the bottom of the ears is placed at this line? (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/854/ofneck.jpg/)
Yep! And if you draw crosses over faces while sketches, extend the eye line to the side and that's where the top of the ears will be.
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Well, the methods of dealing with any kind of block vary from person to person and time to time. Often doing some really quick doodles to warm up can help, or simply taking a break for a little while.
As for art books, I really can't help you there, since I've never used any. of course the best thing is going to an actual art class if you can, even if not for long.
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@Koishi Ruromeji: Got it! The next bunch of heads will be drawn with that in mind.
@Desu Cake: That gave me some ideas, actually. I'll do as you suggested as well :) I'd love to go to an art class, but I don't got the resources to get one, so I guess I'll have to make do with the online stuff linked here before, hehe.
E: nvm forget that pic. what is up with me?
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Hmmm if you are feeling "blocked", try to draw something that you like (like girls eating cakes) or something that inspires you like a specific artist style or action. And if you think that it looks horrible, try to draw until the end and after some hours try to see your drawing and see what is wrong. I think that it is interesting to do a redline of your own drawing to train your "artist eyes" :P
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I'm not good at drawing things in general, though. Except maybe eyes. And, I'm not good at seeing exactly what is wrong with my drawings until someone tells me. Oh, and I drew some more stuff.
Some feet. (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/9/feet2e.jpg/)
More feet. (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/43/feetm.jpg/)
A gesture sketch. (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/541/001zqs.jpg/)
Again, please be very specific in the advice. Sorry if I sounded redundant; something just told me I had to say it again. Also, where can I learn fundamentals?
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I don't know many things about feet, but I think that it lacks the depth feeling, I can't say where is the thumb and where is the little toe from some feet, the size of the toes are too equal. Try to copy some feet from a real pic.
About fundamentals I like this site:
http://hippie.nu/~unicorn/tut/xhtml/#basics-humananatomy-legs
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I have a feeling that the problem is not feet. It seems like Espeon doesn't work well with contours, be it foot, shoulder, pelvis or anything else. Thus, I'd recommend him to learn how to copy shapes well, to begin with.
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@Kaze_Senshi: I'll try. Would feet drawn by a really good artist make a good substitute? Also, could you refer me to a less...confusing site? ^^; The way that one explains stuff is like I'm reading another language (to me, at least. My way of interpreting stuff is odd, hehe).
@Delfigamer: I think you're right; I've made very little progress all-around, considering I've been at this for about 5 years now :P. So, how would I go about copying shapes? Maybe link me to a tutorial?
I'll be working extra duty from now on; I'll be using nights that I can't sleep through as drawing time. Wish me luck ^^;
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If you're going to copy shapes, start with 2D before going 3D. You might want to start with drawing basic shapes like rectangles and circles, all of varying lengths and widths, over and over. Then do the same thing with 3D objects like prisms and spheres, again all of varying lengths, widths, and depths, over and over. BTW, shading usually comes after this step, and shading spheres - and anything for that matter - will be hard if you're not good with drawing contours and curves.
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If you're going to copy shapes, start with 2D before going 3D. You might want to start with drawing basic shapes like rectangles and circles, all of varying lengths and widths, over and over. Then do the same thing with 3D objects like prisms and spheres, again all of varying lengths, widths, and depths, over and over. BTW, shading usually comes after this step, and shading spheres - and anything for that matter - will be hard if you're not good with drawing contours and curves.
I wonder if he'll find enough prisms to do that.
You've got me wrong, I think. I was talking about copying complex shapes, like those formed by human body, rather than constructing simple ones.
@Delfigamer: I think you're right; I've made very little progress all-around, considering I've been at this for about 5 years now :P. So, how would I go about copying shapes? Maybe link me to a tutorial?
Recommendations
- Drawing on the Right Side of the Brain by Betty Edwards
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I wonder if he'll find enough prisms to do that.
You've got me wrong, I think. I was talking about copying complex shapes, like those formed by human body, rather than constructing simple ones.
Hmmm if you can't copy basic shapes like squares or circles you shouldn't be able to copy more complex shapes like spheres or parallelograms.
And about the recommendation request, I don't have other site to recommend for now because I like that site, sorry :(
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@Delfigamer: I think you're right; I've made very little progress all-around, considering I've been at this for about 5 years now :P. So, how would I go about copying shapes? Maybe link me to a tutorial?
Drawing on the Right Side of the Brain
I highly recommend that book for learning perception for drawing, painting, pastel, whatever really.
Among other things, it teaches you about how to make and use blind contours (sketching an object without looking at your canvas/paper/screen at all) and contours (where that's allowed, and shading can be considered too).
Time spent doesn't make as much difference as how the time is spent.
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Hmmm if you can't copy basic shapes like squares or circles you shouldn't be able to copy more complex shapes like spheres or parallelograms.
Awww crap I've just lost so wonderful inspiring speech typed here due to unintended refresh of the page. :( But it's so good that I'll retype it for you.
The skill that I am talking about isn't about reconstructing shapes from primitives. No, it's not about those famous draw-an-owl-from-circles technique. It is about lines.
That skill is an ability to see lines. Not shapes. Not bones, lines of action and theese sticky-sticky-cucumber things. It is the skill to see every line in the scene, see its very configuration, its every angle, its every curve, see exact boundaries of shapes without messing with that shape's meaning.
Essentially, all lines are of the same difficulty, because they should be processed in the same way, as plain curves. That is, it's not much difference in difficulties of drawing a piece of confetti and a maiden's fetishized foot... held by fetishized hand... and bitten by fetishized mouth with as well fetishized milk white teeth. Both scenes are made of lines, and all those lines are of the same difficulty - you just pick them one-by-one and move to the paper.
Good half of the mentioned book teaches you to see lines. I don't have any will to type more and spoiler it, so you better get and read it yourself.
That was my opinion, though. However, reading the book surely won't be harmful... as I judge from your drawings. :3
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snip
No.
There is a very large difference in drawing confetti and a foot. You want to see things in 3D shapes and objects, not a bunch of arbitrary lines like you're suggesting.
e- quoted
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3D is cool and so, but what you draw is planar arbitrary-by-themselves lines. You cannot create real space within a piece of paper just because the piece is flat.
I wonder if we should move the discussion into other thread, to not derail Espeon's one.
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3D is cool and so, but what you draw is planar arbitrary-by-themselves lines. You cannot create real space within a piece of paper just because the piece is flat.
I wonder if we should move the discussion into other thread, to not derail Espeon's one.
Essentially a process of digestion then? Breaking things down into simpler things.
Which is to say, that you visualize underlying structures as simple polygons and polyhedrons. These themselves are constructed from lines.
What you end up drawing are lines, and the skill to learn is to draw them as you want them to be drawn.
But precisely because lines are arbitrary by themselves, I would suggest one should learn to see shapes instead. In the end you're drawing lines, but they give meaning based on how they associate with other lines.
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Wow, thats a lot of new replies to the topic xD
I've tried reading that Right Side of Brain book, and like all the other books I've read, I've understood next to nothing in them. Even so, should I give it another chance?
Also, all this fancy talk about lines and 3d shapes confuses me ^^;
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Yep, by all means! It is catered towards learning artists, but give it some tries and attempts and it'll become familiar.
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All right, I'll do that :) Oh, and some new stuff.
A sofa (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/856/sofa2j.jpg/)
Another one (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/35/sofa1l.jpg/)
A Satori. Was originally gonna be 3 pics, but...erased 2 ^^; (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/687/satori1w.jpg/)
A couple heads (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/716/heads2p.jpg/)
Some profile heads (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/405/heads1.jpg/)
Some hands (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/32/hands1.jpg/)
Some eyes (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/826/eyes1i.jpg/)
Oh, and I'd appreciate being told which of my mistakes are small ones.
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I'm typing with a fried brain, so please excuse any errors in this post.
@Satori: Individually, the elements that made the drawing up were fine, but when they came together, the proportions reared their ugly head and ruined the whole thing.
@Profile heads: YES. The ones on the right are GREAT. Just add a nose to them.
@Eyes: Place them a bit farther away from each other.
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@Eyes: Place them a bit farther away from each other.
Yeap. I think that a eye-distance between the eyes is fine.
Also I think that the ears look a bit strange.
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@Pwn'd Crow:
Please explain in further detail about the satori. I get what else you said.
@Kaze_Senshi:
Got it. Though, what makes the ears looks strange, and how would I go about correcting them?
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A couple heads (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/716/heads2p.jpg/)
Well I am not good at ear drawing, generally I throw the hair over to not show it :V
Anyway for me the ears in this picture looks "flat". Try to imagine the head as a cube. If you attach an ear to this cube and rotate it, the ear must rotate too. In your drawing it seems that you are looking the ear directly from its side ( something like the "I" blue ear at the top of the following drawing). In this drawing I tried to draw an ear pointing to the right place (maybe it is wrong too, idk :V)
(http://img820.imageshack.us/img820/2695/satoirsquare.jpg)
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@Pwn'd Crow:
Please explain in further detail about the satori. I get what else you said.
I think that it's because in the manga/anime style, the proportions become less exaggerated the more 'realistic'/'complex' you draw. Which is to say that for your style, the proportions (the shoulder width, to be precise) are a bit too realistic.
With your style, I'd say the edges of the shoulders should be around the edges of your puffy hair, give or take a bit. The edges of the face then matching up more or less with the width of the torso
Maybe something a bit more like this:
[attach=1]
Otherwise, everything is well drawn, I think.
Maybe the sleeves could use a bit more. Though I'm not that good at creases myself, if you're going to bend the clothes around the arm when you lift it up, creases form near the elbows where you scrunch them up.
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If I took apart the elements that made Satori up, they're all fine. Once you start adding them to each other, something seems off. And like what Nia said, it's the shoulders that's doing just that: they're too wide for her head. (Or the head is too small for the shoulders. w/e)
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@Kaze_Senshi: Hm, I'll mull over what you said some more. Maybe even use my own ears as reference next time :P
@Pwn'd Crow and Nia: i think I see what you mean, but I'll be making that torso width a stylistic choice of mine. After all, a bunch of other artists draw torsos at similar width yet they look great, so if I just improve enough, I'll reach a level where the way I draw them looks correct enough. I'll keep in mind about the shoulders, tho.
Also, some practice on basic stuff:
Hand palm shapes. Spent hours staring at my own hand and looking at other renderings, hehe. (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/593/basicpalmshapes.png/)
Some cups. (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/805/basiccups.png/)
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An orange is not a circle.
@Pwn'd Crow and Nia: i think I see what you mean, but I'll be making that torso width a stylistic choice of mine. After all, a bunch of other artists draw torsos at similar width yet they look great, so if I just improve enough, I'll reach a level where the way I draw them looks correct enough.
Wrong. Style is a way of representing a scene. Like, say, novels and schoolbooks are ways of representing history.
Writing both books, you must know what happened in their time and place. Drawing shoulders, you must know their exact shape.
Contour method, which I recommended to you earlier, is just a way to build sufficient knowledge of studied shape.
Also, rumours say, Picasso was painting like a god. He could draw near a photographic image of anything, and, using this great skill, developed his own style which now is sold by sums of scale of some countries' GDP.
Do I need to say my opinion is subjective? (http://img-fotki.yandex.ru/get/4131/110955323.7/0_b299b_c81b3636_orig)
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I don't really get what you said, sorry. ^^; Which contour method did you recommend, again? And, I wasn't even trying to draw an orange. Also, what about my style made it seem like realistically-proportioned shoulders and torsos made my pic look odd? Just curious.
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I don't really get what you said, sorry. ^^; Which contour method did you recommend, again?
Recommendations
- Drawing on the Right Side of the Brain by Betty Edwards
And, I wasn't even trying to draw an orange.
Metaphor.
Also, what about my style made it seem like realistically-proportioned shoulders and torsos made my pic look odd? Just curious.
realistically-proportioned
Wikipedia NSFW (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Human_Body.jpg), but a good reference picture.
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Boy, it's been a while. And, continuing from my last topic (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,13968.60.html), I've still been drawing, practicing, and generally using what I have at my disposal to increase the pace of my improvement.
An OC. (http://tidalespeon.deviantart.com/art/OC-Pic-371070912?q=gallery%3Atidalespeon&qo=0)
Some gestures. (http://puu.sh/2Rv0K.png)
As always, feedback is appreciated! Every now and then I stream my drawings, so I'll be announcing it here every now and then, I guess. Now if you'll excuse me, I'll be doing life stuff :V
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but why did you make a new topic
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Probably because the site told him the last thread was several weeks old.
Just so you know Espeon, art threads are generally one of the few things that are okay to revive. Maybe we can get this merged?
Also the gestures link isn't working for me.
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@vento: it's the website thing
@Hawflakes: Heres an alternative link to the gestures thing. (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/801/gesturesz.png/) Also, duly noted.
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Currently streaming at the moment. (http://www.livestream.com/tidaldrawsthings)
Done. Thank you to those who attended!
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Lately, I've been doing a lot more drills than actual drawings :/ Here's one (http://puu.sh/3Bf2j.png); got a crapton more. Also, I'm happy with how this (http://puu.sh/3ocMA.png) turned out, flawed as it is :) It took about 2 hours and 40 minutes.
Yes I know the design is weird :V
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Oh I see some improvement on your upper torso. I think that now you should focus on fixing the proportion between upper body and lower body. Generally the legs are bigger than the trunk. I like to use something like 3 heads size for trunk and 4 heads size for legs.
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Hm, I'll think some on that, and thanks for the assurance that I'm improving :) But, what if I want to draw someone of teenage or child height? How does the whole "for adults, trunk is 4 heads tall and legs are 4 heads tall" rule change? Not that I don't have my own ways of drawing people in those heights, but I'd like to hear some input.
Excuse me if I misunderstood anything you said xD
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Relevant link >>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neoteny
You don't need to read all, just look the first disturbing picture and you'll see how our body grows up while we get old.
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Looking at the first links(too many links, didn't bother to check every link).
I think the best way to improve is to copy one's anatomical style, and either slightly change it, or fully adapt to it.
I've copy various styles and did a mix-up my own. PS: Endling (http://endling.deviantart.com/)'s style is seriously wicked.
Also if I may point out, the anatomy of your drawings are unproportional(and so are 75% of Pixiv Users). If you just look at simple anatomy's, or even yourself. You should be able to realize small faults(like the size of the shoulders of men are broader than the hips, opposite to that of women, or the fact that arms are supposed to be shorter than legs). I never realize I was doing so many wrongs back then until I did some looking myself.
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@Kaze_Senshi: From what I see, the younger a character is, the shorter their lower halves are in comparison to their top halves, which also indicates where the crotch line goes. I guess that explains why lolis are drawn with such short legs :p I'll look again at another time and see if I can glean anything else from it.
@En: Using another's anatomical style as reference is a good idea (been applying it by trying to learn from several artists styles), so thanks for reinforcing the idea. Though what do you mean by "simple anatomies" that I can observe to fix my small art faults? As a side note, I'm not yet near as good as over 90% of pixiv artists, so it feels kinda weird to be compared to them ^^; Not complaining, mind you.
Thanks for the feedback!
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Though what do you mean by "simple anatomies" that I can observe to fix my small art faults? As a side note, I'm not yet near as good as over 90% of pixiv artists, so it feels kinda weird to be compared to them ^^; Not complaining, mind you.
A simple anatomy's anatomy(yes this is possessive). Look at your body, look at anyone's decent body. You should get an idea how and what a body should look like.
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In that case, nice to see I'm on the right track :P
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Been a while since I've updated the thread. Well, what better way to update than to show some stuff I drew :P
A friend's request (http://tidalespeon.deviantart.com/art/Traditional-Fox-Lady-416739917)
Tried designing a dress. Turned out ok. (http://tidalespeon.deviantart.com/art/Traditional-Lady-in-a-Dress-416728013)
Looks like someone confessed to Tenshi! (http://tidalespeon.deviantart.com/art/Traditional-Hinanai-Tenshi-Confessions-413458886)
Also did slightly over 100 gestures, as so:
Set 1 (http://puu.sh/5RKV3)
Set 2 (http://puu.sh/5RKVO)
Set 3 (http://puu.sh/5RKWr.jpg)
Set 4 - my earliest attempts (http://puu.sh/5RKWU.jpg)
Set 5 (http://puu.sh/5RKY4.jpg)
Set 6 (http://puu.sh/5RKYK.jpg)
Set 7 (http://puu.sh/5RKZm.jpg)
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Improvement improvement :)
I think that you could be more careful with some proportions, there are some drawings where you do some slips like drawing the eyes a bit lower, big hands or drawing the head too small when compared with the body.
BTW you should train how to draw men too to see the differences between the genders.
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Thanks!
I'm always careful, and still make mistakes :P but ok.
I probably will sometime.
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So, I'm about to stream me working on a Valentine's pic in a few mins. NSFW, tho. (http://www.livestream.com/tidaldrawsthings)
Do excuse me, though, if I don't answer your chat messages; I'm probably either away or just too focused in drawing.
Edit: stream over.