INVASION! (Game Over, Nobody Wins)

[UncertainJakutten]

UK: Nyeh, you know I appreciate you guys letting me bus you guys. Because I really had no real case against any actual town except for Rou(which was destroyed) and Affinity at the end(which was "me too!").

Haha, that's great

This game is all the proof I need that 16-player games are bad news around these parts.

Not necessarily, I just get pissy about em.

[Kilgamayan]

-I'm never taking Mafia advice from a frog ever again.

It's worth noting that I also stand by that Day 1 philosophy. You're welcome to disagree, but I'll point you at which of us was voting for town and which of us was voting for scum.

[WHMZakeri]

@Zak: You were vigged because Serp's role required someone to have a vote on him at the end of the day.

I know. I was just ticked that everyone bought that he had a legitimate reason for vigging me (besides what the truth was, anyway).

It's worth noting that I also stand by that Day 1 philosophy. You're welcome to disagree, but I'll point you at which of us was voting for town and which of us was voting for scum.

I didn't say you were wrong. Just Suwako.
Edit: This is in reference to the day one playstyle, not to whom was voting for whom.

[Serp]

Yeah, when UK and Eliphas bussed VgameT, I figured I could afford to make a somewhat crummy switch onto Suwako and earn a vote that I could use for my ability, but when Kilga jumped right on me early D2, I panicked and went into full damage control mode.  From the beginning of D2, I was playing under the assumption that I was going to be lynched, and rather than playing to survive, I was just worried about not connecting myself to UncertainKitten and Sodium.  That was a poor strategic decision.

As to game balance and such, I think that most of this rage against 16 player games is just confirmation bias.  As long as everyone is reasonably concise (i.e. not quite to Suwako levels), it should remain manageable.  A high prevalence of potential vig roles is good in that regard as well.  Though, if people heed all this bitching and actually quit, we probably won't have the playerbase to have another game this big anytime soon regardless.

I suggest that we hold off the start of the next game for a week or two so that everyone has a chance to cool down.

[Vibri]

I more or less stopped reading the thread after I died so I don't know the specifics but seriously how did we win lmfao

ultra mafia rage itt sorry for playing so bad usually I don't play so bad. I have never done good on these forums.  gonna blame the environment

edit:  also I kept running into kiro on tenhou during this game and I thought it was funny because I bet we were both thinking "shouldn't you be playing mafia right now? come on, man"

[Affinity]

Don't worry, I got food poisoning on Day 6 IRL and got diahorrea, which is probably my just desserts.  I wasn't finished yet though, and wanted to point out that Eliphas' switch to VgT on D1 was stupidly sudden, but I had to sleep off the stomache.  Aha, who cares.  Seriously, my very first game here is far better than this one.  Kind of feel like a douche, am very sorry to town.  I think Roukanken played really well towards the end, and ah.

I think this shows the weakness of the majority of MoTK mafia to handwaving too scummy to be scum play.  To be honest, my vote against Suwako all game was more because of emotional irritance as opposed to really finding him scummy, which bleh, all the more makes me feel bad.  I don't think I was able to think straight all game either.  Suwako, though, please cooperate with people more. 

K4U, you are unexpectedly awesome this game; almost on the level of FAV but more succinct and less obviously town.  I honestly don't mind people suspecting me because really, I deserved it.  Gosh, I think I was better off playing this game with an RNG connected to a tub of vanilla ice cream.  Sorry guys.  Setup is balanced and enjoyable in my opinion.  But really, shit.  Reading the QT is also embarassing.

[UncertainJakutten]

Gosh, I think I was better off playing this game with an RNG connected to a tub of vanilla ice cream.

Remind me to play like this sometime.

[FinnKaenbyou]

Okay, an hour away and this thread is still making me rage.

I'll start by apologising for basically collapsing into a pile of goo somewhere in the middle of day 3. In my defense, I'd been looking to replace since Day 1 but after Eliphas swapped out there were no replacements left.

I know for a fact that I'm basically going nuts over this game. It's not an exaggeration when I say that after I saw Suwako flip Town, I literally lay on the floor in the foetal position for about 20 minutes. It's because this game is pretty much all I have to do in my free time at university since there's nothing in the city, don't get on well with my roommates and I wasn't allowed to bring consoles.

I passed Sodium off too far on the VgT positioning, I'll admit that. Nothing I can do but be more aware of it and stop giving people free passes, but it didn't help that Affinity was such a good target at LYLO.

Finally...I have no idea what to say to Kilga other than that I'm deeply, truly ashamed of how I played this round. As in 'I think I'm a worse person for screwing up so badly' levels of ashamed. Because this game means so much to me, messing up hits doubly hard, and I haven't put a foot right in about 4 games here. >_>

And because of that, as well as he intends it to be, I'd like to disagree with Serp's suggestion to hold the next game off for a week. The longer I spend feeling like an honourary scum over this game, the worse I'll play next round. I know I said that I was going to /out, but I just can't sit back and let people write me off as a loser.

[Kiro]

What I want to know before I read all the postgame is why I didn't get a chance to shoot Sodium?

He was my secondary if Affinity flipped Town this game.

[FinnKaenbyou]

What I want to know before I read all the postgame is why I didn't get a chance to shoot Sodium?

He was my secondary if Affinity flipped Town this game.

Your shot only works if you got it. Sodium picked me as a target for the N6 kill, so your power was irrelevant.

[Edible]

What I want to know before I read all the postgame is why I didn't get a chance to shoot Sodium?

He was my secondary if Affinity flipped Town this game.

For a number of reasons.  One of them was scum outplayed town so hard this game that it was kind of depressing.  Another is I turned off UK's power for psuedo LYLO, so it was really fair.

I had discussed this with Kilga when I made him comod, actually.  As this was real honest-to-goodness LYLO, I felt scum shouldn't have needed to declare a kill in order to win if there was a mislynch.

My apologies for not informing you of this beforehand.

(Actually, Rou, he would have picked Kiro.)

[WHMZakeri]

Yeah, Quicktopic says he picked Kiro, and Kiro says he would have picked Sodium, so ... This actually would have been town's game if the mods didn't call it.

[UncertainJakutten]

Yeah, honestly, I actually wouldn't have called it scum's game when day ended because of that. Technically Kiro could prevent the victory.

But if you decided that before hand, well, it's a little fairer.

[Edible]

Topic updated to reflect who REALLY won this game! <3

[UncertainJakutten]

Topic updated to reflect who REALLY won this game! <3

I'm still counting it as my win .

I had fun.

[Sodium]

FUCK YEAH! Kilga and Edible won!

*Flavor of how Zombie KilgAYA and Edible BANNED EVERYONE FOR THEIR INSOLENCE here*

Oh, and I flipped a coin to decide. =3 I assumed that there was no way that town could stop a NK because Edible outright said LYLO instead of Pseudo-Lylo. Yay RWoS telling me to pay attention to this type of stuff.

[Kiro]

*shrug*

How I saw Day 6 was that there was too much wrong with Affinity and I think I was partially scared that if I tried to drum up a case on Sodium and be wrong, then I'd be berated just as bad for missing the "obvious" lynch. It's illogically stupid to worry about such things though so yea, failure there. I saw the possibility, mainly with what Affinity said that why would they send the Scum Vig to do the NK and I really should have just seized on that. UK also clearing Affinity in Day 5 should have been another giveaway that I just put on as a bad feeling, but I didn't want to WIFOM it too much. In essence, it came down to Affinity bringing up a good case to change my mind and when he went back to Rou, I just wrote off his bad play as scummy.

And as much as I can accept Kilga berating us and he's perfectly fine to do that, I'm suddenly really pissed that Alice intends to take the high ground on this as well when he had no involvement in this game whatsoever. I don't fucking care if you guys talk about this game in an iRC channel that I don't bother going to or don't intend to join because I don't want to pop into the middle of a potential discussion about the game, but I don't see you offering any constructive advice for those of us who failed other than, "don't do that again." I think it's that last paragraph of yours that really pisses me off. I don't need some fancy analogy for you to drive in how bad I and a few others played. Are you TRYING to piss me off?

[UncertainJakutten]

UK also clearing Affinity in Day 5 should have been another giveaway that I just put on as a bad feeling, but I didn't want to WIFOM it too much.

I knew I took a risk doing that, but I figured it'd pay off with WIFOM. It cemented the desparateness of me trying to keep Rou as a viable lynch

And I agree with Kiro, etc.

[Kiro]

P.S. Sorry Affinity. You're probably feeling this the worst. I shouldn't have voted you after just one statement and taken the time to explore the potential towntells that I listed above. So I didn't give you a chance and that makes me want to take more of the brunt for this loss considering I also swinged the vote from Serp to Suwako. Didn't know you were feeling sick either.

Time for my postgame drink. I'll take a drink for you as well. Let's share the Honorary Scum MVP.

---

And Rou, I thought you redeemed yourself well enough in the end. Or whatever there was left to redeem I guess since we chose the same Day 5 targets, one right one wrong. I won't criticize you for anything because trust me, I'm feeling the same as well.

And yo VgT, yea, I'm always chuckling when I see you on Tenhou because of exactly that thought that runs in your head half the time, "Shouldn't Kiro be playing Mafia right now?"

[Kiro]

And good game Scum.

Serp's wild accusation worked on me, UK's was a bit obvious, but I didn't follow up on it so I guess that also counts as working. And Eliphas/Sodium actively bussed 2 Scum, smooth enough. Can never underestimate that again.

Kilga was right so the frustration he felt by the end of Day 3 I'm sure is more than what the rest of living Town felt that Day. Sorry Kilgamayan.

Comments about everybody else is standard fare depending on the person. I still don't think we should restrict new players from joining. We still ought to be an open and somewhat loose collection of players so let's encourage people to try it out, rage with us in game, and then just shrug it off and play the next.

[Edible]

I still don't think we should restrict new players from joining.

Agreed.  This was K4U's second game or something and she played fine.  TBH, I'm fine with Anthony too - he could very easily improve.

It's players like Tenshi who very clearly have no interest in playing in the first place that I have a problem with.  Or players who repeatedly show absolutely no improvement over multiple games.

[Kitten4u]

Ooh, shiny blue name. :3  Thanks. <3

And this is the second game I've completed from start to finish, the first being the other one I played here.  My first game was ruined D1 and I also replaced into an obv scum posistion in another game, made a grand total of about eight posts and was rightfully lynched.

So yeah, I still consider myself a newbie and the comments post game are making me feel awesome. <3

[UncertainJakutten]

It's players like Tenshi who very clearly have no interest in playing in the first place that I have a problem with.  Or players who repeatedly show absolutely no improvement over multiple games.

* UncertainKitten sneezes

Now that's not fair!

[Edible]

* UncertainKitten sneezes

Now that's not fair!

UK, you show everything from vast improvement to negative improvement based entirely upon your whim, so you don't count. o.O

Plus you've played way more games than me, so who am I to judge~

[UncertainJakutten]

UK, you show everything from vast improvement to negative improvement based entirely upon your whim, so you don't count. o.O

Plus you've played way more games than me, so who am I to judge~

Heehee, I suppose that's true. It's not ENTIRELY based on my whim. I just roll with how I start. It's more like rolling a new character each game.

[FinnKaenbyou]

INVASION MAFIA.

WHOEVER WINS, COMMON SENSE LOSES.

Yeah, after a bad night's sleep I'm sitting here posting this in class because I have nothing to do (damn I never do this, I feel like a rebel now). I've calmed down somewhat, and I think most of yesterday's panic mainly revolved around the idea that people would think less of me for playing badly here. I mean, imagine if you were a decent chess player and saw one of your friends lose to the Fool's Mate - fastest loss in the game, requires you to play like an utter moron. Obviously your respect for him's going to take a bit of a beating if you see something like that, and I'm scared that's what's going to happen to me.

So yeah, maybe I'm overreacting, but given the responses from Alice and Kilga I'm genuinely worried I've lost some social standing over this game. >_>

[Pesco]

Protip: Alice and Kilga are not the absolutes of the game here.

[Kilgamayan]

No one has lost social standing as a result of this game.

Hell, no one has lost social standing as a result of that three-way cyber session.

[?q]

The only question I have is how Suwako got lynched at all after D1.
I would have taken what happened D1 as further excuse to ignore/insult him at every conceivable opportunity, but not lynch him.

Other than that, I wasn't reading closely enough to be able to say more than this:
Putting a yukkuri into your game is like daring fate to blink.

[Edible]

Putting a yukkuri into your game is like daring fate to blink.

I knew I fucked up somewhere.