Author Topic: "Ordinary Black Magician Marisa"  (Read 12624 times)

"Ordinary Black Magician Marisa"
« on: May 13, 2009, 12:10:41 PM »
I never understand this, in some games it calls her a "Strange" black magician, and in others "Ordinary". Is this just a translation hiccup, and it means something else? I love Marisa as a character but characters that pride themselves on being "Normal" annoy me. What exactly is meant by "Ordinary" in a game series that prides itself on being bizarre? Is Zun just trying to get across the point that she's not an insane, cackling witch, or like some of those "IRL" new age witches who get way into their stuff and take it too seriously, but well balanced and logical?

That said Marisa is kind of inconsistant, in EoSD she says she hates the night, but in IN she seems to like it. I guess she just has a strange sense of humour and is being silly?
« Last Edit: May 13, 2009, 12:13:31 PM by Rosie Rune »

Alice

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Re: "Ordinary Black Magician Marisa"
« Reply #1 on: May 13, 2009, 12:24:55 PM »
I never understand this, in some games it calls her a "Strange" black magician, and in others "Ordinary". Is this just a translation hiccup, and it means something else? I love Marisa as a character but characters that pride themselves on being "Normal" annoy me. What exactly is meant by "Ordinary" in a game series that prides itself on being bizarre? Is Zun just trying to get across the point that she's not an insane, cackling witch, or like some of those "IRL" new age witches who get way into their stuff and take it too seriously, but well balanced and logical?

That said Marisa is kind of inconsistant, in EoSD she says she hates the night, but in IN she seems to like it. I guess she just has a strange sense of humour and is being silly?
Yes, she is not insane yet. So she is still an ordinary human magician.

DarkHedge

Re: "Ordinary Black Magician Marisa"
« Reply #2 on: May 13, 2009, 12:26:42 PM »
ZUN has no sense of coherence for eye color either (Sanae's eyes turned emerald green in UFO). But it seems he remembers Reimu's hair length since (unless he decides to suddenly cut them like in SA) it grows more and more throughout games.

That said I still think there's a link to "Neutral" more than "Normal". As Marisa makes no use of a particular magic style (being labeled as "high-level magician" with no elemental attacks and no special features like puppetry for so ronery Alice), to me it seems logical.

(although I do believe I sometime have fridge logic more than often.)

Re: "Ordinary Black Magician Marisa"
« Reply #3 on: May 13, 2009, 12:30:07 PM »
Yes, she is not insane yet. So she is still an ordinary human magician.

Oh so it means she's not a "Magician" like Alice then, who's gone all weird and supernatural from the core out? She's an ordinary human wielding supernatural power, but is not a supernatural being herself?
« Last Edit: May 13, 2009, 12:33:04 PM by Rosie Rune »

Gpop

Re: "Ordinary Black Magician Marisa"
« Reply #4 on: May 13, 2009, 12:31:48 PM »
What you consider ordinary or not is, once again, subjective.

In my eyes she's anything BUT ordinary =/. She's a human magician, not a Youkai Magician like Patchouli and Alice. I guess in Gensokyo, "ordinary" magicians are the youkai type, but once again, it's all subjective.

DarkHedge

Re: "Ordinary Black Magician Marisa"
« Reply #5 on: May 13, 2009, 12:35:37 PM »
Ordinary magicians to me are rather the human type. Seeing that we can't consider all the Touhou characters as "celebrities in Gensokyo", it's seemingly something completely common to have powers.

shinyjam

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Re: "Ordinary Black Magician Marisa"
« Reply #6 on: May 13, 2009, 01:35:45 PM »
Seem to me Ordinary just a classification to describe her normal power level.

And Marisa prefer Light and fire magic.

DarkHedge

Re: "Ordinary Black Magician Marisa"
« Reply #7 on: May 13, 2009, 01:38:23 PM »
Fire? I don't remember Marisa using fire-type attacks but that's probs just me...

shinyjam

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Re: "Ordinary Black Magician Marisa"
« Reply #8 on: May 13, 2009, 01:48:23 PM »
Fire? I don't remember Marisa using fire-type attacks but that's probs just me...
Is canon, and Master Spark should be the combination of both.

Vile Lasagna

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Re: "Ordinary Black Magician Marisa"
« Reply #9 on: May 13, 2009, 02:28:31 PM »
Nah man, her spells are pretty much non-elemental with the exception of the occasional frozen missile or ice jet.

As for ordinary "Ah, don't mind me, I'm just and ordinary passerby with no intention of stealing your stuff...." Also, the fact that she apparently is still a human and not a "Magician"
rofl bye

Alice

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Re: "Ordinary Black Magician Marisa"
« Reply #10 on: May 13, 2009, 03:33:50 PM »
I prefer to see Marisa as thief rather than magician.

Re: "Ordinary Black Magician Marisa"
« Reply #11 on: May 13, 2009, 03:41:22 PM »
I prefer to see Marisa as thief rather than magician.

Reimu talks about stealing stuff more often though.

Vile Lasagna

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Re: "Ordinary Black Magician Marisa"
« Reply #12 on: May 13, 2009, 04:14:28 PM »
Wizard/thief IS the most common dual-class of all, you know...
rofl bye

Re: "Ordinary Black Magician Marisa"
« Reply #13 on: May 13, 2009, 04:33:12 PM »
Wizard/thief IS the most common dual-class of all, you know...

No multiclassing in 4th ED. Shit sucks.

OOI are Marisa's "Magic Missle" and "Illusion Laser" D&D references? Magic Missile and Illusionary Ambush are the main two wizard projectile attacks.

Alice

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Re: "Ordinary Black Magician Marisa"
« Reply #14 on: May 13, 2009, 04:33:28 PM »
Wizard/thief IS the most common dual-class of all, you know...
Yeah like Aran Linvail in Shadows of Amn.

Re: "Ordinary Black Magician Marisa"
« Reply #15 on: May 13, 2009, 04:50:38 PM »
Put it like this: for the most part, you only have her word on it. (Makes me wonder if the characters are the ones who created their own character-titles ...)

Vile Lasagna

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Re: "Ordinary Black Magician Marisa"
« Reply #16 on: May 13, 2009, 05:17:16 PM »
No multiclassing in 4th ED. Shit sucks.

OOI are Marisa's "Magic Missle" and "Illusion Laser" D&D references? Magic Missile and Illusionary Ambush are the main two wizard projectile attacks.

I couldn't even get past the second chapter of the Player's handbook, despite a friend's attempt to convince me. Shit has been Hasbro'd to death (oh well, at least 3.5 is quite good)

I don't remember illusionary ambush but I'd say you have a terrible lack of Fireball and Chain Lightning on your spellbook.

Also: Ruby Ray of Reversal = LOVE
rofl bye

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Re: "Ordinary Black Magician Marisa"
« Reply #17 on: May 13, 2009, 07:18:16 PM »
Well, "ordinary" doesn't necessarily mean common. She's, uh... theoretically unspectacular in comparison to the other magicians around, who are youkai and have more inherent power. She's also ordinary in comparison to the other important human characters -- Reimu's the dang Hakurei shrine maiden, who the hell knows what's up with Sakuya, there's god-descendants and half-ghosts and immortals, and all of them have their own special super powers. Marisa, as far as anyone knows, is just some girl from the village who happens to have learned magic. So she's an ordinary person by nature, extraordinary only through her choices and actions.

At least that's how I've always taken the title. Either way, there's certainly a touch of irony to it, seeing as she is weird and unusual despite being ordinary, and those choices and actions have propelled her above some of the other people's extraordinary natures. Finding double meanings and sarcastic readings for character titles is entertaining anyway. (Perfect and Elegant Maid always comes to mind...)

Re: "Ordinary Black Magician Marisa"
« Reply #18 on: May 13, 2009, 07:29:40 PM »
I couldn't even get past the second chapter of the Player's handbook, despite a friend's attempt to convince me. Shit has been Hasbro'd to death (oh well, at least 3.5 is quite good)

I don't remember illusionary ambush but I'd say you have a terrible lack of Fireball and Chain Lightning on your spellbook.

Also: Ruby Ray of Reversal = LOVE

4th ED is a lot of fun as a Tactical game, but the roleplaying mechanics aren't fantastic.

Herasy

Re: "Ordinary Black Magician Marisa"
« Reply #19 on: May 14, 2009, 06:03:44 AM »
Put it like this: for the most part, you only have her word on it. (Makes me wonder if the characters are the ones who created their own character-titles ...)
It's like she's calling herself "Ordinary" only to surprise you with her wicked awesome LASER OF DOOM!

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Re: "Ordinary Black Magician Marisa"
« Reply #20 on: May 14, 2009, 09:13:35 AM »
You guys are getting it wrong. Marisa is BLACK

theshirn

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Re: "Ordinary Black Magician Marisa"
« Reply #21 on: May 14, 2009, 02:32:29 PM »
I couldn't even get past the second chapter of the Player's handbook, despite a friend's attempt to convince me. Shit has been Hasbro'd to death (oh well, at least 3.5 is quite good)

I don't remember illusionary ambush but I'd say you have a terrible lack of Fireball and Chain Lightning on your spellbook.

Also: Ruby Ray of Reversal = LOVE
Oh geez, imagine Stoneskin in Touhou.  You could get hit and not fail spell cards!

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shinyjam

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Re: "Ordinary Black Magician Marisa"
« Reply #22 on: May 14, 2009, 02:42:51 PM »
Oh geez, imagine Stoneskin in Touhou.  You could get hit and not fail spell cards!
They will have to rewrite the code lol, Everyone would be so high level, Sakuya can use the time stop spell unlimited and no delay  ;D

theshirn

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Re: "Ordinary Black Magician Marisa"
« Reply #23 on: May 14, 2009, 02:53:40 PM »
Sakuya has permanent access to level 9 spells...Yuyuko's death powers get a Will save...yeah, there'd be SERIOUS balance issues. :P

[09:46] <theshim|work> there is nothing like working for a real estate company to make one contemplate arson

shinyjam

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Re: "Ordinary Black Magician Marisa"
« Reply #24 on: May 14, 2009, 03:29:47 PM »
Although all of them are bosses anyway, would be a really good challenge...or if I wear whatever things that immune to their power.

Vile Lasagna

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Re: "Ordinary Black Magician Marisa"
« Reply #25 on: May 14, 2009, 04:40:29 PM »
The truth is that Gensokyou is the only place I can think of that is even more BS than DBZ world (or maybe, close to that, I might be stretching just a little bit). It would be impossible to make something anywhere NEAR balanced when you get the power that people there have. And that's where Danmaku comes in. Some half-arsed excuse Zun made up so that he can make them as much BS as they want (Remi: Oh no, it's your fate to lose this battle. Yuyuko: Oh, you died, no save! LOL!  6:CAUTION! NUCLEAR LAUNCH DETECTED!!! Yukari:...... ....... Suika: Pretty much invincible, actually).... and still have a playable game. Gensokyou has really cool characters and all but is inherently broken.
rofl bye

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Re: "Ordinary Black Magician Marisa"
« Reply #26 on: May 19, 2009, 02:24:32 PM »
I like to describe it as balance through brokenness in the fact that it's balanced since everyone is broken. :P
I gotta have something for my sig, so...

Re: "Ordinary Black Magician Marisa"
« Reply #27 on: May 19, 2009, 02:42:58 PM »
The truth is that Gensokyou is the only place I can think of that is even more BS than DBZ world (or maybe, close to that, I might be stretching just a little bit). It would be impossible to make something anywhere NEAR balanced when you get the power that people there have. And that's where Danmaku comes in. Some half-arsed excuse Zun made up so that he can make them as much BS as they want (Remi: Oh no, it's your fate to lose this battle. Yuyuko: Oh, you died, no save! LOL!  6:CAUTION! NUCLEAR LAUNCH DETECTED!!! Yukari:...... ....... Suika: Pretty much invincible, actually).... and still have a playable game. Gensokyou has really cool characters and all but is inherently broken.

the balance is the survival of the fittest; but, to avoid deaths on both the human and youkai sides, this spellcard system was made, in order to decide a winner without actually killing the loser (either by exorcising or devouring the defeated person), and to maintain the combat abilities of the two sides so that they wouldn't be easily overpowered by possible invaders from the outside (source: http://touhou.wikia.com/wiki/Perfect_Memento:_Monologue )

Now, for being more BS than DBZ: http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/AbusingTheKardashevScaleForFunAndProfit
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How much time do you guys think it will take for HM to be translated? Besides everyone's story modes and the whole menus, there's also the fact that the way HM's programmed is different from all other games. I bet it'll take two months.

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Re: "Ordinary Black Magician Marisa"
« Reply #28 on: May 20, 2009, 06:35:24 AM »
I always assumed the "Ordinary" was meant to be ironic.
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