Author Topic: Characters, music, personalities.  (Read 325977 times)

Fightest

  • Fighter than anyone else
Re: Characters, music, personalities.
« Reply #270 on: November 04, 2009, 11:24:12 PM »
Quote from: PrismYoshi
Also, since we were talking about PC-98 fandom earlier (or the lack of rather) I think we should take Fightest's analysis of each theme and use it as our fandom material.

Why, I'd be flattered. And thanks in general to everyone who's been providing the positive feedback that kept me going! :D

As for a Satsuki Rin:

Meme idea: She lives at the other side of the Forest of Magic, but she has Zoro-like (from One Piece) sense of direction. She wanted to solve the Scarlet Mist incident but got lost and ended up in Heaven, beating up Tenshi years before SWR.

That's a bit complicated for a meme, and adds new character elements (unless I'm wrong). From personal experience, the easier it is to formulate in as few words as possible, the more spreadable the meme. Thus, I think an easier meme would be to play on the fact that, canonically, Rin doesn't exist. Something along the lines that she's just like any of the regular crew, going about her business, until someone remembers that she doesn't exist and points it out to her. Then she pops out of existence, much to her annoyance, coming back only when everyone forgets that she doesn't exist. Something like that.

Solais

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Re: Characters, music, personalities.
« Reply #271 on: November 05, 2009, 12:06:35 AM »
Well her character doesn't exist, so that's why we should give her one.
Or maybe, expanding your idea, she would be that character who's never noticed by anyone. Like Alice in the Walfas flashes, or that bald guy in Zetsubou Sensei. ...

...
Yeah, that bald-guy like meme could work. I mean he's always there, but only as a faint existence, and nobody notices him, even if he goes to the women's side of the hotspring.

Fightest

  • Fighter than anyone else
Re: Characters, music, personalities.
« Reply #272 on: November 05, 2009, 07:17:21 AM »
and nobody notices him, even if he goes to the women's side of the hotspring.

Voyeurin Satsuki is now a meme.

Toasty

Re: Characters, music, personalities.
« Reply #273 on: November 08, 2009, 09:25:01 PM »
Request you analyze some mima, please.

Reincarnation: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hws4X0skF1Y&feature=related

ZUN official remix of reincarnation: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q_adQ22WRY8

Complete darkness: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bXLmUPWl-vc&feature=related

Not that you have to do all of them. Take your pick. When you want to.


Helepolis

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Re: Characters, music, personalities.
« Reply #274 on: November 08, 2009, 09:38:19 PM »
Fightest, you should have a webspace somewhere and upload all your posts to that place for a full overview. Too much work that needs some spotlight together imo.

Sapz

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Re: Characters, music, personalities.
« Reply #275 on: November 08, 2009, 10:03:16 PM »
Request you analyze some mima, please.

Reincarnation: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hws4X0skF1Y&feature=related

ZUN official remix of reincarnation: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q_adQ22WRY8

Complete darkness: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bXLmUPWl-vc&feature=related

Not that you have to do all of them. Take your pick. When you want to.
I would absolutely love to see an analysis of Complete Darkness. If you dislike chiptunes as much as you say, though, you might want to consider using this excellent fanmade remastered version instead. Just a suggestion.

...Not sure why I haven't posted in this thread before, actually, considering how interesting all of these analyses are. :V Keep up the good work!
Let's fight.

Fightest

  • Fighter than anyone else
Re: Characters, music, personalities.
« Reply #276 on: November 08, 2009, 10:46:03 PM »
Request you analyze some mima, please.

Will get 'round to Mima when I get 'round to Story of Eastern Wonderland, which is reasonably likely.

Quote from: Helepolis
Fightest, you should have a webspace somewhere and upload all your posts to that place for a full overview. Too much work that needs some spotlight together imo.

You mean like in a document? I could bash together a pdf, or a bunch of 'em, and upload them somewhere. Otherwise hosting them on a website of my own means me having any knowledge of html, which I don't, despite our day and age, to my embarrassment. What I can do now is alter my first post to link to all my other entries. Also, holy crap, it just sunk in I've done fifty-one reviews and analyses of character themes. Okay, to be fair, my early ones, say, most of EoSD, are very basic outlines, but still. Fifty-one entries. Satisfying number, that.

Solais

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Re: Characters, music, personalities.
« Reply #277 on: November 08, 2009, 11:31:13 PM »
Tonight I fell to the ground and hit my head, then I saw a prophecy: This shall be the place where the rise of the Western Touhoudom begins!

Umm yeah, organizing the data would be good.

Toasty

Re: Characters, music, personalities.
« Reply #278 on: November 09, 2009, 12:19:58 AM »
A blog would be a decent format for data organization....although cheesy.

Fightest

  • Fighter than anyone else
Re: Characters, music, personalities.
« Reply #279 on: November 10, 2009, 09:34:37 AM »
My break's over, and I'm starting on Mystic Square. It feels strange to move to chiptunes after the almost orchestral glory of UFO. That said, ZUN appears to have a lot of experience in this field and he uses the available sounds and effects well. Well, here's to hoping for a good start!

Sara ? Magic Formation ~ Magic Square

A simple, identifiable motif forms the centerline of this piece, focusing all attention on itself. Long, clean, single notes, alternating between major and minor, give the melody a dreamy melancholy feel. Their strong sound adds a sense of dignity and pride to their being there, but, combined with the melancholy feel, gives a sense of loneliness that inevitably comes with being guardian of a place long forgotten.

Classic, extremely straightforward chord progressions add a simplistic beauty to the mix ? as I?ve mentioned earlier, cadences are designed to evoke certain feelings from the listener, and the constant movement into tonic with the chords here provides a feeling of satisfaction throughout the piece for the listener. This translates into a self-assured confidence that reinforces the feeling of pride that is present.

Finally, the accompaniment, although present in its fast-paced arpeggios, is completely unintrusive due to its lack of strongly defining characteristics, like a distinct motif, high volume or thick texture. This then shows the prominence of the person over their ability, or their surroundings. This piece, then, is all about Sara.

Sara is not really a thinker ? emotions and body language are more important to her. She has a job as a gatekeeper, and she is dedicated to it, taking pride in what she does, never questioning her duty. With her position comes a degree of isolation from everything, as she can never really be present in the two worlds the border between which she guards, and this leads to vague feelings of loneliness that she herself has trouble defining. Due to this she tends to daydream, perhaps supplementing her solitary existence with imagined characters. She would appear strange to others due to her inexperience with real people, but those that know her would find comfort in her refreshing simplicity and her wistful daydreams.

Solais

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Re: Characters, music, personalities.
« Reply #280 on: November 10, 2009, 01:50:18 PM »
Ok, so about Sara:

- She's a gatekeeper, duh
- She's a loner/very lonely/can't socialize because of not being part of either world (I can sympathize with that.)
- Takes pride in doing her job (like China, without the sleep problem?)
- Possible memes: Lonely moe, maybe with her having lots of imaginary friends, to the point that she looks creepy to others?

I want to summarize the other characters too, just to make it easier for others to "know" about that character.

Fightest

  • Fighter than anyone else
Re: Characters, music, personalities.
« Reply #281 on: November 10, 2009, 04:18:02 PM »
maybe with her having lots of imaginary friends

I can get behind that, that's kinda cute.

Prody

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Re: Characters, music, personalities.
« Reply #282 on: November 11, 2009, 03:36:00 AM »
Prody's anime list! - Prody's favourite MADs on NicoDouga! - Me when steam trading
I wonder if anyone knows the true meaning of the last song in Nanairo?
the economy the economy the economy the economy

Fightest

  • Fighter than anyone else
Re: Characters, music, personalities.
« Reply #283 on: November 11, 2009, 07:25:00 AM »

Fightest

  • Fighter than anyone else
Re: Characters, music, personalities.
« Reply #284 on: November 11, 2009, 09:17:31 AM »
Luize ? Spiritual Heaven

There is a strong duality in this piece which underlines a certain alien-ness in Luize. At first glance, it is the melody that speaks the most here - a clear, singular sound that carries well-defined emotions and has a solid, comfortable structure. The melody is romantic and expressive, with a degree of impatience suggested where the melody almost hiccoughs into a quick, forceful cadence, most prominently in the second part. The melody quickly becomes uncanny, however, due to its constant insistence on repetition of that same motif, over and over and over. The usual suggestion on not everything being right in Luize?s mind applies, but I believe the reason for that can be found in the piece?s accompaniment.

Starting with the introduction, with its characteristic high pitched bell-like sounds over a spartan background, the piece inspires a feeling of otherworldliness. The bells specifically give a cold, almost cosmic resonant sound, giving the impression that Luize is only slightly attached to earthly forms and desires. Astute readers will remember a similar property in Nue.

This detachment is emphasized in the piece proper ? the accompaniment?s arpeggioes don?t even try to set up a proper harmonic line for the melody, only changing every once in a while in what seems to be a self-indulgent manner, as if to keep up pretences, leading to a contrasted dissonance between melody and harmony. This is where I feel Luize?s real nature lies: her human form and behavior - an elegant and expressive, yet impatient girl - are essentially a front for a being trying to hide a completely alien nature. This ?alien? Luize continues the theme for bizarre duality ? she?s not accustomed to being in such a form, considering her inability to develop her character past a few keywords and bullet-points; but, on the other hand, she?s clearly had or wanted to do so before, otherwise this form would not even be present.

With this said, I believe that Luize is genuinely interested in interacting with Gensokyo?s natives on their terms, as one of them, rather than as a nebulous youkai. Therefore she prepared a few key phrases and a form to blend in ? she is thus, finally and ultimately, an enthusiastic tourist.

Solais

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Re: Characters, music, personalities.
« Reply #285 on: November 11, 2009, 09:57:50 AM »
Luize:

- Otherworldly (I think this will apply to all Makai residents)
- Elegant and expressive, yet impatient
- Possible meme: Give her a camera, and make her a "weird japanese tourist in the west".
« Last Edit: November 11, 2009, 03:06:04 PM by Solais »

RainfallYoshi

  • Yoshi of Skies & Rains
  • Who is it that calls for me?
Re: Characters, music, personalities.
« Reply #286 on: November 11, 2009, 10:20:13 AM »
Since I've never really ventured into PC-98 land, I can't really give much input here. I still think you're doing an awesome job though. This is also a nice way to force me to listen to some PC-98 music since I've been holding it off.

Fightest

  • Fighter than anyone else
Re: Characters, music, personalities.
« Reply #287 on: November 11, 2009, 10:31:32 AM »
- Otherwordly (I think this will apply to all Makai residents)

Needs a habit to go with that, terrifyingly alien, yet also possibly cute in a weird way. Say, when she wishes to alter her form, she does so physically - molding her face with her hands, stretching limbs, bones and sinews, popping joints, stuff like that. It's completely natural to her, and she wonders with a big confused smile on her face why the people with her have those expressions on their faces when she does so.

Zengar Zombolt

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Re: Characters, music, personalities.
« Reply #288 on: November 11, 2009, 12:58:28 PM »
when she wishes to alter her form
Midboss of Stage 4.
Luize, with other clothes, red eyes and a white aura thing.
Thanks to Donut for the pointer :V

RainfallYoshi

  • Yoshi of Skies & Rains
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Re: Characters, music, personalities.
« Reply #289 on: November 11, 2009, 03:03:12 PM »
Something I wanna start with Sara.

Perhaps she and Hong could have a rivalry relationship. Like they're each trying to one-up each other and it usually just ends in crazy antics and failed attempts.

Fightest

  • Fighter than anyone else
Re: Characters, music, personalities.
« Reply #290 on: November 11, 2009, 03:28:36 PM »
Something I wanna start with Sara.

Perhaps she and Hong could have a rivalry relationship. Like they're each trying to one-up each other and it usually just ends in crazy antics and failed attempts.

Gatekeeper-off? Who can guard the bestest? Well, neither of them are the sharpest tools in the shed, so it's entirely possible.

[edit] What the? I'm blue!

Fightest

  • Fighter than anyone else
Re: Characters, music, personalities.
« Reply #291 on: November 12, 2009, 07:06:45 PM »
Alice Margatroid ? Plastic Mind

Plastic Mind is the first truly dark piece that we have really been exposed to, not in its content, but what it implies. There are three distinct parts to the piece, not counting the introduction, each one getting more and more subdued and morose ? considering that this version of Alice is a child I can only suggest that her upbringing has not been the most caring or attentive. Considering what goes on in the third part of the piece I would consider suggesting that she has serious abandonment issues which have led to a certain destabilization of her mind. Despite Gensokyo+, I am having trouble putting a positive spin on the conclusions I?ve come to.

The introduction starts off innocent, no melody present, only broken minor chords, harsh and cold, going up and down with a token accompaniment to give an impression that whatever Alice has to say or show is hidden underneath a tense, emotionless exterior. Faced with strangers, she clams up, seemingly instinctually more than anything else, to avoid contact with them. Future developments will show that this is possibly a learned behavior.

The first melodic theme has Alice opening up to the listener. It?s likely that, despite the nature of any previous encounters she has had, she desires the company of others, and is unable to maintain her distance for a long time. The motif here is generally gentle and positive: the melody is in major, and consists of long notes that are able to play out their full length, avoiding the rushed feel of a faster tempo. There is no complexity here, the motif consisting, variations aside, from no more than 8 notes ? this version of Alice has a simplicity appropriate for a child, yet there is a spark of a mature self-control that, upon first glance, gives the impression of a well-adjusted little girl with good manners and a refined attitude.

The second part quickly lets the listener know that all is not as it seems, however. The tonality takes a turn for the minor, and the melody suddenly becomes far more elaborate than the simplistic motif of the first section, really emphasizing a sudden feeling of unfulfilled desire, the chord progressions really emphasizing this by adding tension, confusion and a certain despair to the music. The pace of this section is slightly raised, the calm demeanour the listener saw previously replaced by an uncertain desperation, as if Alice herself knows that something is wrong with her, but she doesn?t know what.

The third part then explains to the listener what?s going on, at Alice?s expense. The melody is reduced to an anguished wail, every part of it in minor. It never strays far from its tonic note, which, in the context of desperation, suggests that Alice has simply given up looking for solutions. The accompaniment is a set of single, long, deep notes, reinforcing the notion of something unfathomably deep to a child being present in Alice?s life, forcing her to acknowledge things that should not be present in her life at this stage. The presence of long, single notes in both melody and accompaniment is what gives me the impression of Alice?s abandonment issues ? she is always alone, and this has reflected poorly on her growing up. Perhaps she has been hurt when reaching out for contact, which is why she tends to freeze up in the presence of strangers, but her needs are more powerful than her fears, and she always opens up to anyone around her, for better or worse. It seems that she is unable to ever forget her solitary existence, which leads her into chronic depression, whether she is in the company of others or not.

I realize this analysis is more grimdark than usual, but I really can?t pull something positive out of Plastic Mind. If it ended on a positive note, somehow pulling back into major, maybe, but it just ends in the pit of depression it dug itself. Maybe someone else has some clever ideas. Ack, I?m depressed myself, now.

Solais

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Re: Characters, music, personalities.
« Reply #292 on: November 12, 2009, 07:39:02 PM »
Hmm, actually it fits to a back story idea of mine for my Expanded Universe, that Alice was abandoned and in her childish depression, she turned to magic (compare Maria from Umineko), studied crazily, and reached Makai at such a young age, what is hard to reach to the most experienced human magicians too. This "something is wrong with her" maybe is the start of her becoming a youkai, yet she couldn't realize it yet. Now this is where Shinki comes along as her Mother-like Tutor, and in the end, Alice overcomes her fears and depression and becomes the cool Alice as we know. But, there's that hint, that maybe there really is something horrible in her past: Dunno where, I think in BAiJR, it is said, that she buys medicine from Eirin, to make her dreams good, like those horrible memories are still haunting her dreams.

7TC7

  • In best company
Re: Characters, music, personalities.
« Reply #293 on: November 12, 2009, 09:25:52 PM »
I don't really think Gensokyo+ existed much in pc98. Alice was "The witch of death" as the extra stage credits called her. She is by no means positive.
There is also other things that seem to speak against Gensokyo+, for example Luize coming back as a ghost in stage 4, meaning she probably died somewhere along stage two, or Mai's reaction to the heroine beating Yuki. Probably other things from SoEW and LLS.

By the way, I always thought Plastic Mind fitted Alice more than Grimoire of Alice and I was worried you wouldn't take a look at Plastic Mind. I'm happy you did as you did.
And I'm looking forward to read what you will have to say about Judas Kiss, my favourite from all the pc98 songs of one of my favourite characters.

I really enjoy your thoughts on all these themes. Keep going~
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Solais

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Re: Characters, music, personalities.
« Reply #294 on: November 12, 2009, 09:31:39 PM »
Well, pc98 is Before the Spellcard Rules, so it's just before Gensokyo+. It's like the Final Battles of the Dark Times of Gensokyo. Officially I call the pc98 games as the "Before Spellcards Arc"; Th6-9 "Youkai Arc"; Th10-12 "God Arc".

Also, Luize can alter her form.
« Last Edit: November 12, 2009, 09:36:06 PM by Solais »

RainfallYoshi

  • Yoshi of Skies & Rains
  • Who is it that calls for me?
Re: Characters, music, personalities.
« Reply #295 on: November 13, 2009, 12:25:42 PM »
I like Solais' spin on this. Since PC-98 games are before the spellcard rule, it's hard to have a positive spin to anything. Without the spellcards, people can die easily. I think for this reason PC-98 is just overall a lot darker and more serious than the windows games.

Fightest

  • Fighter than anyone else
Re: Characters, music, personalities.
« Reply #296 on: November 13, 2009, 01:07:58 PM »
Okay, Yuki and Mai are complicated. Their individual themes are strikingly similar, so clearly there's an important contrast and comparison to be made there. Additionally, they also have a collective theme, which will affect the conclusions drawn from their individual themes.

In short, this might take a smidge longer than I thought.

7TC7

  • In best company
Re: Characters, music, personalities.
« Reply #297 on: November 13, 2009, 04:41:00 PM »
Also, Luize can alter her form.

Where do you get that from, except from this thread?
It's neither in her profile, her dialogue, her music description or anything.
Sure, it's a possible solution, but I wonder.
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Solais

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Re: Characters, music, personalities.
« Reply #298 on: November 13, 2009, 05:16:46 PM »
Needs a habit to go with that, terrifyingly alien, yet also possibly cute in a weird way. Say, when she wishes to alter her form, she does so physically - molding her face with her hands, stretching limbs, bones and sinews, popping joints, stuff like that. It's completely natural to her, and she wonders with a big confused smile on her face why the people with her have those expressions on their faces when she does so.

As there isn't any memes, or anything about the PC98 chars, we pretty much decided that we, the Western Touhoudom will adopt the pc-98 chars, and make up our own memes, and stuff.

7TC7

  • In best company
Re: Characters, music, personalities.
« Reply #299 on: November 13, 2009, 06:46:19 PM »
As there isn't any memes, or anything about the PC98 chars, we pretty much decided that we, the Western Touhoudom will adopt the pc-98 chars, and make up our own memes, and stuff.

Yes, I read that.  ;)
I was just making a point in that other post about her coming back as a ghost, because she probably died in canon, to make a point against the so called Gensokyo+ for PC98 games.
You wanted to disprove that with a just established meme. But let's not diskuss to much on this and enjoy the music.

Luize is awesome, if she is death now or not.
She does look quite a lot like Yukari too, which I always liked about her.
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