Author Topic: (Shiki)Eiki Quest the 2nd - Text Adventure of Mystic Light  (Read 157642 times)

E-Nazrin

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  • fuwafuwa pachipachi
Re: (Shiki)Eiki Quest the 2nd - Text Adventure of Mystic Light
« Reply #390 on: April 01, 2011, 07:17:26 PM »
>It left us alone when we slept at Eirin's. That doesn't mean we've been doing something wrong, it means we've been doing something right.
There was something here once. Wonder what...

Blitzer

  • 「Touhoustuck」
Re: (Shiki)Eiki Quest the 2nd - Text Adventure of Mystic Light
« Reply #391 on: April 01, 2011, 08:05:17 PM »
>Lil Reirei: "Sorry, just I don't recall much else. I mean, you have the ability to make trouble, and you haven't. So I do appreciate it."
>"Okay then."

>Quesyuyu Mountains: Frown
>"Must you feel that way? I'm sure it's nothing to be ashamed of. Why, if this building is any indication, I'm sure it would be quite impressive.
>"Well...fine, fine. I suppose I can show you something..."

>Ego Enticer: Look into how Rikako is thinking, can we determine where or what the the aforementioned projects are?
>In her unconscious, you find stuff like a device which can see into other dimensions, a device that detects "unusual gaps", and a device that seems to allow her to fly.

>Shiki: Did we try indulging the voice at any time over the past week? Or speaking to it in the manner this voice is proposing?
>You haven't even heard the voice until today.
« Last Edit: April 01, 2011, 08:10:29 PM by Salvatore Blitzer »

GuyYouMetOnline

  • Surprisingy not smart for lynch dodging
Re: (Shiki)Eiki Quest the 2nd - Text Adventure of Mystic Light
« Reply #392 on: April 01, 2011, 08:53:26 PM »
>Weren't we left alone at Eientei because it didn't want Eirin finding much? The voice said something of the like about Yukari; this voice was assuming similar reasoning.
>If the voice hasn't spoken to us until today, then we obviously haven't tried what this voice wants to do.

Hello Purvis

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  • Hello Jerry
Re: (Shiki)Eiki Quest the 2nd - Text Adventure of Mystic Light
« Reply #393 on: April 01, 2011, 09:27:46 PM »
>So because one thing has demonstrably worked, the obvious course is to do the exact opposite and hope that it will have the opposite effect that reason would dictate?
>Red Yuyuko Mountains: Clap hands together. "Marvelous!"

E-Nazrin

  • .... what're you looking at?
  • fuwafuwa pachipachi
Re: (Shiki)Eiki Quest the 2nd - Text Adventure of Mystic Light
« Reply #394 on: April 01, 2011, 09:41:09 PM »
>Why SHOULD we do what the voice wants, anyway?
There was something here once. Wonder what...

GuyYouMetOnline

  • Surprisingy not smart for lynch dodging
Re: (Shiki)Eiki Quest the 2nd - Text Adventure of Mystic Light
« Reply #395 on: April 01, 2011, 10:07:58 PM »
>When did I say we'd do what it-oh, I see the confusion. 'The voice' refers to the voice Shiki's hearing; 'this voice' refers to me. Anyways:
>The point of talking to the voice is to attempt to get information to use against it. We're not going to do what it wants.

Blitzer

  • 「Touhoustuck」
Re: (Shiki)Eiki Quest the 2nd - Text Adventure of Mystic Light
« Reply #396 on: April 01, 2011, 11:05:17 PM »
>Red Yuyuko Mountains: Clap hands together. "Marvelous!"
>"So then, let me get out something from a room back there...don't follow me."
>She goes into a nearby dark corridor.

After 5:00 PM (Pacific Standard Time) or so, I'll be going on a trip and probably won't be around until late Sunday afternoon.

Hello Purvis

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  • Hello Jerry
Re: (Shiki)Eiki Quest the 2nd - Text Adventure of Mystic Light
« Reply #397 on: April 01, 2011, 11:12:27 PM »
>Id Initiator: Totally follow her. Not into whatever area she's going, but do have a peek.

Blitzer

  • 「Touhoustuck」
Re: (Shiki)Eiki Quest the 2nd - Text Adventure of Mystic Light
« Reply #398 on: April 01, 2011, 11:48:32 PM »
>Id Initiator: Totally follow her. Not into whatever area she's going, but do have a peek.
>You follow her partway. When she opens the door, you take a peek into a dark room with some strange lights...then she closes the door.

Hello Purvis

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  • Hello Jerry
Re: (Shiki)Eiki Quest the 2nd - Text Adventure of Mystic Light
« Reply #399 on: April 01, 2011, 11:59:04 PM »
>Ego Envier: Can we still sense her? If so, have a peek at her subsconcious.
>Either way, wait for her to open the door, have another look inside. If there's any kind of window on the door, look inside in the meantime.

GuyYouMetOnline

  • Surprisingy not smart for lynch dodging
Re: (Shiki)Eiki Quest the 2nd - Text Adventure of Mystic Light
« Reply #400 on: April 02, 2011, 01:55:59 AM »
No more thoughts on the talking-to-the-voice business?

GuyYouMetOnline

  • Surprisingy not smart for lynch dodging
Re: (Shiki)Eiki Quest the 2nd - Text Adventure of Mystic Light
« Reply #401 on: April 04, 2011, 01:27:20 AM »
Seriously, if the rest of you don't have anything to say after learning that Shiki hasn't heard the voice until today (and after I clarified my own words), then I'm going to go ahead and try talking to it the next time there's a good opportunity.

Hello Purvis

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  • Hello Jerry
Re: (Shiki)Eiki Quest the 2nd - Text Adventure of Mystic Light
« Reply #402 on: April 04, 2011, 01:57:08 AM »
You've not really answered our points, actually. Right now, you argument is because one thing has worked, we should do the exact opposite, and hope that the effect which would logically follow doesn't follow. Moreover, you want to do it when we've just started to recover a little bit. I am trying to figure out why Shiki would acknowledge the voice at all, when she has had her first success at all against it only by ignoring it. About the only way that would make any sense would be if you could logically demonstrated that the speaker is not the cause of the whole problem.

Blitzer

  • 「Touhoustuck」
Re: (Shiki)Eiki Quest the 2nd - Text Adventure of Mystic Light
« Reply #403 on: April 04, 2011, 02:12:33 AM »
>Ego Envier: Can we still sense her? If so, have a peek at her subconscious.
>You can still sense her, so you look at her unconscious. Hmm...a memory of fighting with Reimu...and that blond witch, who looks very different than when you saw her at the Moriya Shrine...a lot of people you don't recognize.

>Either way, wait for her to open the door, have another look inside. If there's any kind of window on the door, look inside in the meantime.
>You wait for a few minutes. After a while, she comes out with two things: a strange silver device with a circle of glass on the front, and a circular device with a dark green screen. There is no window on the door.

Hello Purvis

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  • Hello Jerry
Re: (Shiki)Eiki Quest the 2nd - Text Adventure of Mystic Light
« Reply #404 on: April 04, 2011, 02:36:58 AM »
>Superego Savant: Try to peek inside when the door opens. Then follow her back.
>Yuyuko: Look toward the invention with great interest when Rikako returns. "Oh, what is it?"

GuyYouMetOnline

  • Surprisingy not smart for lynch dodging
Re: (Shiki)Eiki Quest the 2nd - Text Adventure of Mystic Light
« Reply #405 on: April 04, 2011, 02:54:42 AM »
You've not really answered our points, actually. Right now, you argument is because one thing has worked, we should do the exact opposite, and hope that the effect which would logically follow doesn't follow. Moreover, you want to do it when we've just started to recover a little bit. I am trying to figure out why Shiki would acknowledge the voice at all, when she has had her first success at all against it only by ignoring it. About the only way that would make any sense would be if you could logically demonstrated that the speaker is not the cause of the whole problem.

How has ignoring it worked? Yes, we pulled off a lecture, but, well, that didn't hurt the voice any. The lecture was a victory for our self-confidence, not against the voice.

Also, given that the voice didn't speak to us until today, I actually have started to entertain the possibility that it's not behind even what we thought it was (I, personally, have always been certain that it's telling the truth about not being involved with Youmu/Sakuya/etc., but now I'm wondering how much of even the rest it's really behind). If we want to get any information at all, we need to get it talking. Even if it's lying, well, as I said, lies always hide something.

Hello Purvis

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  • Hello Jerry
Re: (Shiki)Eiki Quest the 2nd - Text Adventure of Mystic Light
« Reply #406 on: April 04, 2011, 02:58:37 AM »
A victory of self confidence is a victory against the voice, given it's trying to undermine the basis of Shiki's existence. And, again, you would have to demonstrate logically that the voice and the dream-giver are not one and the same before Shiki would contemplate that course, in this light.

Blitzer

  • 「Touhoustuck」
Re: (Shiki)Eiki Quest the 2nd - Text Adventure of Mystic Light
« Reply #407 on: April 04, 2011, 03:10:21 AM »
>Superego Savant: Try to peek inside when the door opens. Then follow her back.
>You peek inside a bit. You only see the same things you saw before, a dark room with strange lights.
>You follow her back.

>Yuyuko: Look toward the invention with great interest when Rikako returns. "Oh, what is it?"
>"These two devices? One of them-" she sets the strange silver device down on a nearby table- "is a device used to look into other dimensions. Haven't got it to work well yet. This other one-" she places the circular device down on the same table- "is a device used to detect gaps in space. You know, for avoiding Yukari Yakumo."

Hello Purvis

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  • Hello Jerry
Re: (Shiki)Eiki Quest the 2nd - Text Adventure of Mystic Light
« Reply #408 on: April 04, 2011, 03:16:29 AM »
>Yuyugium Range: "Why would anyone want to avoid Yukari? She's such a darling!"
>Deschampsia Dame: "Can you elaborate on the first device?"

E-Nazrin

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Re: (Shiki)Eiki Quest the 2nd - Text Adventure of Mystic Light
« Reply #409 on: April 04, 2011, 03:36:59 AM »
If we want to get any information at all, we need to get it talking. Even if it's lying, well, as I said, lies always hide something.

Except that getting it to talk out of exasperation at being ignored has also already worked as it consistently bemoaned being blamed for everything and made claims about its plans. There's no compelling reason to turn around on that front, either.

I'd love to know what it's up to, but things have worked out pretty well without having to resort to giving it more leverage by even appearing to cave in to its desires to change the Yama's morals and undermine the entire cycle of life and death. For that matter, insincerely bending to it for information is uncharacteristically deceptive for the judge of the dead. It's not worth the risks or harm to pretend to trust it.

Actually.

>Dechampsia Divider: What is expected of the Yama under normal circumstances? Duties, behavior, values, etc? How flexible do these tend to be? How appropriate was our lecture to Reimu under these rules?

>Dechapsia Dominatrix: Apologize to Reimu for the outburst, makeup makeouts
>Halifax Yuyutons: Mimic Deedee, press the button and set Rikako's hair on fire
There was something here once. Wonder what...

GuyYouMetOnline

  • Surprisingy not smart for lynch dodging
Re: (Shiki)Eiki Quest the 2nd - Text Adventure of Mystic Light
« Reply #410 on: April 04, 2011, 03:56:01 AM »
I'm not talking about lying. I'm talking about saying 'hey, if what you're doing is right, then proove it'. And yes, I know we can't trust any 'proof' it offers, but that's not the point. It's not what the voice says that I'm interested in. I want to know how it reacts. The information I'm after isn't words. I want to see its reaction.

E-Nazrin

  • .... what're you looking at?
  • fuwafuwa pachipachi
Re: (Shiki)Eiki Quest the 2nd - Text Adventure of Mystic Light
« Reply #411 on: April 04, 2011, 04:08:35 AM »
I'm not talking about lying. I'm talking about saying 'hey, if what you're doing is right, then proove it'. And yes, I know we can't trust any 'proof' it offers, but that's not the point. It's not what the voice says that I'm interested in. I want to know how it reacts. The information I'm after isn't words. I want to see its reaction.

And what of our own reactions? An interested response either means considering that it may have something noble in mind when it's both seriously fucked with the process of the afterlife and waited until after our power loss and destabilization from whatever was done with those initial dreams to actually talk about it, or feigning that to get the information of its reaction - making the distinction meaningless anyway.

And emotional responses can be picked up on from its slips of exasperation as well. For example -

>Dechampsia Dolomite: When we were kicking off that brief lecture to Reimu, who advised us to 'Go on' and what was their tone? What could be extrapolated from that in terms of guessing their intent or motives in saying that?
There was something here once. Wonder what...

GuyYouMetOnline

  • Surprisingy not smart for lynch dodging
Re: (Shiki)Eiki Quest the 2nd - Text Adventure of Mystic Light
« Reply #412 on: April 04, 2011, 05:13:06 AM »
*Did not even notice that*

And you really seem to be getting the wrong idea about what I'm trying to do here. We don't have to pretend to be interested; telling it to f*** off would likely work just as well. And, yes, just waiting for it to say something would work, but getting it to say something is likely to produce results a lot sooner (not to mention the fact that we can control what we give it to respond to).

Hello Purvis

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  • Hello Jerry
Re: (Shiki)Eiki Quest the 2nd - Text Adventure of Mystic Light
« Reply #413 on: April 04, 2011, 05:18:25 AM »
And you keep not addressing the central point. You want to reverse a policy that has demonstrably worked, and hope that it won't get us screwed over. It's clear that whatever it's doing, the dreams are not the alpha and omega of it; a being like Shiki doesn't suddenly doubt the basis of her existence that fiercely due to a couple of nightmares. And, we have demonstrated that abstaining from acknowledging the cause has worked in reversing some of the damage. You're advocating the equivalent of removing a radiation suit in the middle of a reactor meltdown. Shiki simply would not be that reckless.

Blitzer

  • 「Touhoustuck」
Re: (Shiki)Eiki Quest the 2nd - Text Adventure of Mystic Light
« Reply #414 on: April 04, 2011, 05:34:03 AM »
>Yuyugium Range: "Why would anyone want to avoid Yukari? She's such a darling!"
>"She's very weird and does whatever she wants with that gap power of hers. She once inconsiderately dropped into a pool I was bathing in, and I really don't want that to happen again."

>Deschampsia Dame: "Can you elaborate on the first device?"
>"Yes. This device theoretically sees into other dimensions by ripping a hole in space and looking through it...but it doesn't work very well, and I can't control which dimension I look into."

>Dechampsia Divider: What is expected of the Yama under normal circumstances? Duties, behavior, values, etc? How flexible do these tend to be? How appropriate was our lecture to Reimu under these rules?
>You must uphold Buddhist beliefs. They tend to be vague, so there's flexibility. Infer from that your duties, behaviors, and values. The parser might have gone into more detail, but he's working on time limits.
>You lecture to Reimu was totally appropriate.

>Dechapsia Dominatrix: Apologize to Reimu for the outburst, makeup makeouts
>You make out with Reimu as an apology.
>"What is WITH you people?!"

>Halifax Yuyutons: Mimic Deedee, press the button and set Rikako's hair on fire
>You press the button, but Rikako's hair is not set on fire. "Ha! I'm not so stupid as to put a button like that in my house!"

>Dechampsia Dolomite: When we were kicking off that brief lecture to Reimu, who advised us to 'Go on' and what was their tone? What could be extrapolated from that in terms of guessing their intent or motives in saying that?
>You're sure that was the voice. Why would your tormentor let you lecture Reimu when lectures seem to be reversing the problems it caused?
« Last Edit: April 04, 2011, 05:35:35 AM by Salvatore Blitzer »

Hello Purvis

  • *
  • Hello Jerry
Re: (Shiki)Eiki Quest the 2nd - Text Adventure of Mystic Light
« Reply #415 on: April 04, 2011, 06:01:49 AM »
>Deschampsia Dividend: "What have you seen with it? And, perhaps, have you plans for refining it?"

GuyYouMetOnline

  • Surprisingy not smart for lynch dodging
Re: (Shiki)Eiki Quest the 2nd - Text Adventure of Mystic Light
« Reply #416 on: April 04, 2011, 06:44:56 AM »
And you keep not addressing the central point. You want to reverse a policy that has demonstrably worked, and hope that it won't get us screwed over. It's clear that whatever it's doing, the dreams are not the alpha and omega of it; a being like Shiki doesn't suddenly doubt the basis of her existence that fiercely due to a couple of nightmares. And, we have demonstrated that abstaining from acknowledging the cause has worked in reversing some of the damage. You're advocating the equivalent of removing a radiation suit in the middle of a reactor meltdown. Shiki simply would not be that reckless.

And how, exactly, has this worked? I'd like examples of how it's helped, because, well, I can't find any.

Koishi: Closing our third eye blocked off access to our mind, right? Even Satori can't read it, right?

E-Nazrin

  • .... what're you looking at?
  • fuwafuwa pachipachi
Re: (Shiki)Eiki Quest the 2nd - Text Adventure of Mystic Light
« Reply #417 on: April 04, 2011, 08:58:55 PM »
And how, exactly, has this worked? I'd like examples of how it's helped, because, well, I can't find any.

>It left us alone when we slept at Eirin's. That doesn't mean we've been doing something wrong, it means we've been doing something right.

Except that getting it to talk out of exasperation at being ignored has also already worked as it consistently bemoaned being blamed for everything and made claims about its plans. There's no compelling reason to turn around on that front, either.

(?ι _`  )

Also, about the voice not being responsible for the dreams?

Quote
>The voice in your head says "It's just you and Reisen, but more are planned."

That said -

>You're sure that was the voice. Why would your tormentor let you lecture Reimu when lectures seem to be reversing the problems it caused?

>To obtain a false sense of trust or security in order to manipulate other parts of our morality - just because it was willing to accept/support a lecture to Reimu doesn't mean its intentions are good overall. Especially after implicitly admitting to being willing to cause a breakdown like Youmu's.
There was something here once. Wonder what...

GuyYouMetOnline

  • Surprisingy not smart for lynch dodging
Re: (Shiki)Eiki Quest the 2nd - Text Adventure of Mystic Light
« Reply #418 on: April 04, 2011, 10:07:35 PM »
Hey, I'm not the one who's been insisting that we can't believe everything it says. Also, I never said I think it's not responsible; I said I'm considering the possibility.

As for the examples, I already addressed the Eirin one; Eirin was investigating it, and much like it said in regards to Yukari, it probably just didn't want to give Eirin the opportunity. As as for the other, um, that's not even an example. You guys are saying that ignoring the voice has worked as a measure against what it's doing to us (the dreams, the power drain, etc.), but I can't find anything that suggests this. So that's what I want examples of.

Blitzer

  • 「Touhoustuck」
Re: (Shiki)Eiki Quest the 2nd - Text Adventure of Mystic Light
« Reply #419 on: April 05, 2011, 01:19:21 AM »
>Deschampsia Dividend: "What have you seen with it? And, perhaps, have you plans for refining it?"
>"I've tried it five times, and it seems to have worked twice. I've seen a dimension where Yukari was an evil overlord and Gensokyo basically went to hell, and a dimension where Reimu and Marisa suddenly disappeared after the Scarlet Mist incident. And yes, I am trying to improve on it."

Koishi: Closing our third eye blocked off access to our mind, right? Even Satori can't read it, right?
>Yes, your conscious and unconscious can't be read, it seems.